The whole thing about getting student divers to ask for their money back, it reminds me of an instructor at a dive shop I used to be affiliated with. A lot of instructors there would joke about me being really strict with skills, making sure students can perform them well before I pass them, but there was one whom I thought was too lenient, and would pass students even if they could barely demonstrate. I found the reason why they could barely demonstrate these skills was because he couldn't teach them properly. Quite often I would end up having to do remedial training for these students, and every time when I'm done with them, they can perform the skills flawlessly. I would think a lot of these skills are very important when immersed in a hostile environment. You know, on the one hand recreational diving is meant to be fun, but on the other hand it's no joke. Things can go wrong very fast. I would like to think the students I had (including the ones I took on for remedial training) would fall back on their training I had drilled into them if they ever got into a problem.
I developed the frog style for my own diving without having ever seen it and I was never tought about it. In fact, I mostly felt out of place, because of it but this finning technique felt the most natural to me. That was back in the early 90's.
I use the bicycle kick occasionally, but not really as a means of propulsion. Rather, after a long dive, it serves (for me, anyway) a way to stretch out my hip flexors and extensor muscles. I'll only do it for 5 seconds or so, but it helps me out, especially after about 45 minutes or so into a dive. Then I'm good to go for another long stretch of time. :)
So you were never taught to move through the water ? Just stay stationary? It's nothing to do with PADI but your instructor. Now don't get me wrong I have a lot of issues with PADI but you have to be objective.
@@qaszim2012 to be fair I think its assumed you are able to swim. That said instructors dont really tell you how to fin. Ive been told a couple times that I must keep my legs straight and kick from the hips because it uses less air but I still struggle with that. I naturally want to use my legs not my hips to kick buy its not as efficient and and have no idea how to "practice" the right technique if theres no one to tell me where Im going wrong and how to improve. Not to mention where do I do this outside of actual diving which isnt cheap and I dont want to need to be focusing on that and cant expect my buddy to waste money on a dive only to watch me fin 🤷🏻♂️
Two minor points: The frog kick was a modified frog kick, the full frog kick has a bigger range of motion when it comes to the hips. The back kick was moving a bit to the top and could easily be fixed if you're looking in front of you instead of looking down. Once you look in front of you the back kick will improve and you will be better able to maintain your depth while kicking.
Great info- going to hire an instructor to get my frog kick right and hopefully back finning. I’ve got a reconstructed ankle and cannot point toes. Hope I can still get my finning to be better.
As a recreational diver, once I learned how to efficiently frog kick, I never went back to the flutter again. I only use it when I’m against a current or I need to get somewhere really fast. Otherwise, frog 95% of the time. Also, helicopter turns and back finning should be in everyone’s toolbox too.
Great video. Did confine dive yesterday first time with fins. Instructor said lock knees keep legs straight. I was finding that to be almost impossible for me. Was pretty much using my arms to go back and forth through pool wishing could just swim without fins. Even thought about throwing in towel it was so bad. And your right messed everything else up for me as well. I was breathing hard tired and getting water in mask. Plus had to deal with my BCD being to small. Should be good next time have class. Seeing that the knee can be bent will help a lot. And I went and ordered my own gear so will have bigger BCD now.
Lol. You were half as goofy as me. PADI flutter kick is fine. Most don't get to frog know kick till AOW. Practice what YOUR instructor is teaching. James is awesome but is into different training style. He is correct mostly but better to learn from your instructor. After 100 or 200 dives you will find what works for you. Most agencies don't concentrate on trim and buoyancy at first. 85% ow dive once. 10% dive 4x a year and only 5% actually dive as a sport. Statistics from my LDS owner.
I am always willing to consider new things that I hear. I have been a freediving for over 50 years. Scuba diving for 30 years with a 15 year break and made a return to scuba recently. Little has changed in the freediving world except safety knowledge. So much has changed in the scuba world and not all for the good. I see that frog kicking is occasionally preferred in tight environments and various motions improve positioning for UW photography. With regards to efficiency, nothing comes close to good old fashioned flutter kick with free diving fins. IMO flutter kick has mostly become the new cool due many trying to emulate tech divers. Divers are on average far less fit and many are overweight plus overloaded with kit these days. For this reason the frog kick is their best option as they are not fit enough to flutter kick properly. Fitness is your best efficiency asset.
Small advice regarding your back kick: First, keep looking forward, not down. Second, stretch your legs out properly when loading the kick to create more momentum. What you are doing is just half of a back kick. Both will help you to avoid the upwards momentum you are creating in your demo. Also make sure you have a proper glide phase. You are loading again much too soon, killing most of the backward momentum you created, which is very small to begin with as a result of your improper loading.
I thought myself the frogkick after Maybe my 6.th or 7.th dive 🤙 i don’t really like to flutter. I only use mod. Flutter or mod. Frog sometimes when it’s needed. I’m mostly doing open water dives so there is no need to back kick. But I’m practicing it from time to time. Just in case
I was trained using frog kick and I can't see any other way of doing it... but I wasn't trained to do the reverse... I definitely want to start practicing that more... I only use flutter when trying to look at something against a current... I also do a modified frog using only my ankles for tight spaces such as keyholes or cenote diving...
I've broken an ankle a few times and I use the bicycle kick to relive pain in my ankle and legs which sometimes occurs. It's more like a cramp relief or stretch to give my joint a momentary break. I'll try these additional kicks to change thing up some. Thanks
undefined what - laying on your back and frog kick is what find easiest and probably most common. Otherwise use your snorkel (if you have one) and flutter/frog 👌
Great content. Just got back in the water after getting refresher. Original open water completed years ago.Such great information. It has been very helpful to me.
I've used the flutter kick modified flutter and always had my knees at about a 45 degree angle. I found it useful to keep my fins from kickin up silt on freshwater spearfishing and to avoid damaging coral in the Caribbean. But, since I've started diving in a dry suit, I've had to completely change the way I flutter, and learn to keep my knees much more straight and try to avoid bringing my legs above centerline of my body because of getting air in my legs and ending up in negative trim with head down and feet up.. Felt very unnatural for quite awhile, but ultimately I found that it improves my buoyancy and trim while wet diving to keep my knees almost completely straight and hinge only at the hips.
If you feel like you need to use your hands but you normaly don't use them then it's probably because your weights are not equal on each sides. It happenned to me when I've brought extra weights for OW students.
I’m still in training and struggling with the flutter. I also struggle with this technique when swimming. I find the frog kick easiest and gives me more momentum than any other kick. This is also my fastest technique when swimming. Wondering whether I should just accept that’s best for me?
I was so confused when I first saw frog style divers. I used apnoe fins during diving and it just doesn't work with these so I kinda thought that all these people are stupid. Then I even saw instructors do it and realized that with diver fins it does make sense. When I do technical diving in cold waters I do use proper fins and frog kick myself now, but with apnoe fins I do really slow flutter kick and I have really good control over my movement with my apnoe fins and for me that is a lot more efficient than ising fins with boots. Oh and another thing I tried that doesn't work is mono kick. Basically what you would do with a monofin. It is incredibly bad because it requires your upper body to move.
Hi I have a question. I just took a freediving course and I'm trying to practice myself in open water. What I can't do or hesitate doing is I don't dive safely as I did with my instructor ( because he used to have a buoy which I don't have now) I used to stick to it when I return surface from deep. How can I stay on water and have a survival breathing using my fins? Can I stay vertical in water safely using fins? If so how?
Probably not wise ... im taking a drysuit course next weekend with a new instructor. Im gonna bicycle kick like a mofo just as an ice breaker. Im also gonna throw flippers out there a few times. Hopefully there's a sense of humor. Might not be tho .... to many ppl take way to much fun out of scuba.
I used it on my first pool dive and my buoyancy was all over the place tho found the flutter and frog kick really helps me with my buoyancy control next week will be our 5th pool dive cannot wait
As a free diver who has been certified, I respectfully disagree. Bicycle kicks have their place. Depends on what your doing. I find I disagree with a lot of “scuba” techniques that are taught. And lot of “scuba” equipment is inefficient in the energy to power transfer.
Clicked this video and was pleasantly surprised to see James
The whole thing about getting student divers to ask for their money back, it reminds me of an instructor at a dive shop I used to be affiliated with. A lot of instructors there would joke about me being really strict with skills, making sure students can perform them well before I pass them, but there was one whom I thought was too lenient, and would pass students even if they could barely demonstrate. I found the reason why they could barely demonstrate these skills was because he couldn't teach them properly. Quite often I would end up having to do remedial training for these students, and every time when I'm done with them, they can perform the skills flawlessly. I would think a lot of these skills are very important when immersed in a hostile environment. You know, on the one hand recreational diving is meant to be fun, but on the other hand it's no joke. Things can go wrong very fast. I would like to think the students I had (including the ones I took on for remedial training) would fall back on their training I had drilled into them if they ever got into a problem.
I developed the frog style for my own diving without having ever seen it and I was never tought about it. In fact, I mostly felt out of place, because of it but this finning technique felt the most natural to me.
That was back in the early 90's.
James is definitely one of my favourite TH-camrs. Subscribed!
Make sure you also check out his channel @diversready
@@ScubaDiverMagazine That's how I found you guys!
I use the bicycle kick occasionally, but not really as a means of propulsion. Rather, after a long dive, it serves (for me, anyway) a way to stretch out my hip flexors and extensor muscles. I'll only do it for 5 seconds or so, but it helps me out, especially after about 45 minutes or so into a dive. Then I'm good to go for another long stretch of time. :)
I don’t recall finning ever being brought up during my PADI OW course. 😞
Finning is definitely I've had to pick up along the way.
It gets brought up during advanced and some finning is required for master diver
So you were never taught to move through the water ? Just stay stationary?
It's nothing to do with PADI but your instructor. Now don't get me wrong I have a lot of issues with PADI but you have to be objective.
@@qaszim2012 to be fair I think its assumed you are able to swim. That said instructors dont really tell you how to fin. Ive been told a couple times that I must keep my legs straight and kick from the hips because it uses less air but I still struggle with that. I naturally want to use my legs not my hips to kick buy its not as efficient and and have no idea how to "practice" the right technique if theres no one to tell me where Im going wrong and how to improve. Not to mention where do I do this outside of actual diving which isnt cheap and I dont want to need to be focusing on that and cant expect my buddy to waste money on a dive only to watch me fin 🤷🏻♂️
I think it's more emphasized in the Scandinavian versions of the course.
Two minor points:
The frog kick was a modified frog kick, the full frog kick has a bigger range of motion when it comes to the hips.
The back kick was moving a bit to the top and could easily be fixed if you're looking in front of you instead of looking down. Once you look in front of you the back kick will improve and you will be better able to maintain your depth while kicking.
Great info- going to hire an instructor to get my frog kick right and hopefully back finning. I’ve got a reconstructed ankle and cannot point toes. Hope I can still get my finning to be better.
Always upvote James!
Thanks for sharing this, James! Excellent content!
hi James, a little longer with the actual kicking shots please.
Found the frog kick definitely helped with my buoyancy control along with my breathing 😊
As a recreational diver, once I learned how to efficiently frog kick, I never went back to the flutter again. I only use it when I’m against a current or I need to get somewhere really fast. Otherwise, frog 95% of the time. Also, helicopter turns and back finning should be in everyone’s toolbox too.
Great video. Did confine dive yesterday first time with fins. Instructor said lock knees keep legs straight. I was finding that to be almost impossible for me. Was pretty much using my arms to go back and forth through pool wishing could just swim without fins. Even thought about throwing in towel it was so bad. And your right messed everything else up for me as well. I was breathing hard tired and getting water in mask. Plus had to deal with my BCD being to small. Should be good next time have class. Seeing that the knee can be bent will help a lot. And I went and ordered my own gear so will have bigger BCD now.
Lol. You were half as goofy as me. PADI flutter kick is fine. Most don't get to frog know kick till AOW. Practice what YOUR instructor is teaching.
James is awesome but is into different training style.
He is correct mostly but better to learn from your instructor. After 100 or 200 dives you will find what works for you.
Most agencies don't concentrate on trim and buoyancy at first. 85% ow dive once. 10% dive 4x a year and only 5% actually dive as a sport.
Statistics from my LDS owner.
Excellent!
I learned something :)
Thank you...this is very informative specially to new divers like me..,,
I think the basic is always the best 😊
First was flutter, now primarily using frog. Back kick needs work, thanks for the reminder to get the GoPro out.
I sometimes swim backwards when the viz isn’t that good in our lake. Great practice for the back kick.
I am always willing to consider new things that I hear. I have been a freediving for over 50 years. Scuba diving for 30 years with a 15 year break and made a return to scuba recently. Little has changed in the freediving world except safety knowledge. So much has changed in the scuba world and not all for the good. I see that frog kicking is occasionally preferred in tight environments and various motions improve positioning for UW photography. With regards to efficiency, nothing comes close to good old fashioned flutter kick with free diving fins. IMO flutter kick has mostly become the new cool due many trying to emulate tech divers. Divers are on average far less fit and many are overweight plus overloaded with kit these days. For this reason the frog kick is their best option as they are not fit enough to flutter kick properly. Fitness is your best efficiency asset.
Small advice regarding your back kick: First, keep looking forward, not down. Second, stretch your legs out properly when loading the kick to create more momentum. What you are doing is just half of a back kick. Both will help you to avoid the upwards momentum you are creating in your demo. Also make sure you have a proper glide phase. You are loading again much too soon, killing most of the backward momentum you created, which is very small to begin with as a result of your improper loading.
I thought myself the frogkick after Maybe my 6.th or 7.th dive 🤙 i don’t really like to flutter. I only use mod. Flutter or mod. Frog sometimes when it’s needed. I’m mostly doing open water dives so there is no need to back kick. But I’m practicing it from time to time. Just in case
Excellent info James. Thanks
Glad it was helpful!
I was trained using frog kick and I can't see any other way of doing it... but I wasn't trained to do the reverse... I definitely want to start practicing that more... I only use flutter when trying to look at something against a current... I also do a modified frog using only my ankles for tight spaces such as keyholes or cenote diving...
I've broken an ankle a few times and I use the bicycle kick to relive pain in my ankle and legs which sometimes occurs. It's more like a cramp relief or stretch to give my joint a momentary break. I'll try these additional kicks to change thing up some. Thanks
Nice. Now if I can just figure out how to swim to the site on the surface.
undefined what - laying on your back and frog kick is what find easiest and probably most common. Otherwise use your snorkel (if you have one) and flutter/frog 👌
This video made me want to dive!
So did you start?
You forgot the doplhin style, the second most useful one after frog.
I can't say I've ever seen a diver using a dolphin style kick.
Is useful in freediving.
I love the dolphin style while in currents. Soooooo useful and I feel like a hot knife in butter
Thanks!
Great content. Just got back in the water after getting refresher. Original open water completed years ago.Such great information. It has been very helpful to me.
Glad we could help you refresh 😀
Good information and nice shirt :)
I've used the flutter kick modified flutter and always had my knees at about a 45 degree angle. I found it useful to keep my fins from kickin up silt on freshwater spearfishing and to avoid damaging coral in the Caribbean. But, since I've started diving in a dry suit, I've had to completely change the way I flutter, and learn to keep my knees much more straight and try to avoid bringing my legs above centerline of my body because of getting air in my legs and ending up in negative trim with head down and feet up.. Felt very unnatural for quite awhile, but ultimately I found that it improves my buoyancy and trim while wet diving to keep my knees almost completely straight and hinge only at the hips.
I just got a D7X .... hadn't thought of this. Thnx.
If you feel like you need to use your hands but you normaly don't use them then it's probably because your weights are not equal on each sides. It happenned to me when I've brought extra weights for OW students.
I’m still in training and struggling with the flutter. I also struggle with this technique when swimming. I find the frog kick easiest and gives me more momentum than any other kick. This is also my fastest technique when swimming. Wondering whether I should just accept that’s best for me?
I was so confused when I first saw frog style divers. I used apnoe fins during diving and it just doesn't work with these so I kinda thought that all these people are stupid. Then I even saw instructors do it and realized that with diver fins it does make sense.
When I do technical diving in cold waters I do use proper fins and frog kick myself now, but with apnoe fins I do really slow flutter kick and I have really good control over my movement with my apnoe fins and for me that is a lot more efficient than ising fins with boots.
Oh and another thing I tried that doesn't work is mono kick. Basically what you would do with a monofin. It is incredibly bad because it requires your upper body to move.
Never was taught specific styles, just to avoid silting etc
If I can't scuba, then what's this all been about? What am I working toward?
You should show more of it while your talking
If finning is so important that you should ask your OW instructor for your money back, why isn't it even mentioned in the PADI OW competencies?
The bike kick is horrifingly painful to watch.
Hi I have a question. I just took a freediving course and I'm trying to practice myself in open water. What I can't do or hesitate doing is I don't dive safely as I did with my instructor ( because he used to have a buoy which I don't have now) I used to stick to it when I return surface from deep. How can I stay on water and have a survival breathing using my fins? Can I stay vertical in water safely using fins? If so how?
Don’t skimp on safety. Trust me you won’t regret the investment if you need it. Grab a decent vest at least of a buoy.
@@ScubaDiverMagazine thank you I'll definitely buy a buoy. But I have to stay on water using my fins right?
Could I share this video in my Instagram, it is very useful
Only as a link back to our video, please don't rip and post.
Scuba Diver Magazine thanks I appreciated your reply
No helicopter?
noice
You forgot "Dolphin kicking" :)
Probably not wise ... im taking a drysuit course next weekend with a new instructor. Im gonna bicycle kick like a mofo just as an ice breaker. Im also gonna throw flippers out there a few times. Hopefully there's a sense of humor. Might not be tho .... to many ppl take way to much fun out of scuba.
Nothing wrong with 'flippers'. Mammals have flippers and fish have fins. We are mammals.
I use bicycle kick all the time. I didn't know that's a bad technique.
I used it on my first pool dive and my buoyancy was all over the place tho found the flutter and frog kick really helps me with my buoyancy control next week will be our 5th pool dive cannot wait
I did my second open water scuba dive this afternoon. and all i did was the bicycle kick. it really is a shame. :D
Everyone does to start with. Don't worry you'll get it with time.
As a free diver who has been certified, I respectfully disagree. Bicycle kicks have their place. Depends on what your doing. I find I disagree with a lot of “scuba” techniques that are taught. And lot of “scuba” equipment is inefficient in the energy to power transfer.
Yep, I'm a long time professional diver and have bycicled on several occasions to maintain position where no other kick would have worked.
When he did his intro I thought he was about to yell at me. Softest yelling voice I've seen.
that frog looks like its dying...
I prefer to see more seconds in the video to how these techniques done than your face tbh.
Horrible demo of a proper flutter kick! Mod. flutter.. Needs more flick from the ankle.
Need to plane the fin out more on the return stroke of the back kick. No helicopter turns?...
Great topic! Glad to see you bring this topic up.
Where is The mermaid kick or butterfly kick!
Not so common while scuba diving but, they are very effective while freediving.