I am glad that, although it wasn't a huge investment, that I purchased a BM-869S from a company that actually listens to, and takes action, on product issues. Try sending an e-mail to Fluke and see what happens. Thanks for the video and the info, I definitely appreciate your testing vids!
What's the point when they don't release the firmware updates to public? You know the bug was fixed but you can't update it yourself, and the only way is to send to some remote location to have it updated. Ridiculous.
We have checked BM786 again and if you put the multimeter in AutoHold as per manual meter warns you with dashes it is not getting a correct reading. This is good because you know this is an interference in this spot. Infact all meters we have tested in this spot have been affected by EMF. One note. If you switch to mV range and see how much parasite interference you are getting we kept BM786 in this mode and moved around. Yep. Where the mV value shown decreased to humble 6-10mV we did the measurement again of the resistance in auto mode and yielded correct and accurate results. We switched to AutoHold. Yep. Correct and accurate. Moved back to problematic spot and we saw dashes in AutoHold (meter as per manual tries to warn you) due to interference. Then later we found that one of the wires in power supply on mains was not properly connected and this why it was a lot of interference! Effectevely it comes down to user's quality of the workplace in terms of EMI. The user who reported the issue probably had bad power source etc Meter is working just as designed and its absolutely fine and spot on on all ranges etc. we will buy more of them also added 47nF capacitor in parallel with leads to eliminate most of interference. Meter would register on mV range up to 450mV without capacitor and 12mV or so with th he capacitor. This led to improvement of the overall readings though accuracy will most likely a little suffer fot this measurment. This meter is so great that infact we will be buying more of these Brymens
Checked it out. I walked around the apartment with a multimeter. The situation is not changing. Is there interference everywhere? Or should I make a shielded box and use the tester in it? That's funny.
So from what I can see Brymen reacted quickly but does not feel responsible for the multimeters sold so far? Sending the meter abroad to the manufacturer is not the right solution here (if even possible). From the user's perspective, this fix makes no practical difference to me. For Brymen, yes. They should allow users to update the firmware.
@@stanleywhiteman6450 I am not aware of any handheld DMM outside of Dave's 121GW that allows users to program their meter. I am interested in knowing what bug free meter you are using. The takeaway here was Brymen was willing to research it the problem and find a solution in very short order. To date, I have not seen another company respond like this.
Joe - can I upgrade firmware in my 4 year old BM869s to extend the backlight duration time or maybe we should cook up some kind of add-on mod that can be soldered into the board, maybe.
Just use autohold when it starts hunting in this auto range this should give fairly close results. This minor issue unfortunately also exist in BM786 rev 78608 (sold by Dave) however it looks like it only exist in the presense of very strong electromagnetic field. Check if EF sensor close to the source of electric field. It is still "A True Blue Multimeter".. :) (corrected 677kOm was the resistor value)
@@joesmith-je3tq There is no problem with BM786 and this just has been confirmed, changing to less noisy (in terms of EMF) environment led to absolutely accurate reading, also with two different sets of leads, no, there is no problem. We have tried manual range and it also works fine. Even placed the meter 50 cm apart from the discovered main EMF source (and aparently earthing cable was found to be loose in the connection of this source) and it has improved its reading stright away. Most likely the user who reported the issue had very high level of EMF around the meter. Infact we had to check what is the RF field around just to be sure. What we have later found that also RF field was around 4.5-6 V/M in one of the points where meter BM786 exibited the issue. This is great result actually. This is in pair with Fluke 28II. Accuracy as one would expect in this RF field would drop but so was dropped the accuracy for Fluke 28II. Spacing apart the source of RF and Fluke 28II and Brymen BM786 stopped this issue all together.
@@joesmith-je3tq I am saving up to buy this coming December. I hope you can review that meter before I can buy it. Is it really good or not? There aren't enough reviews on TH-cam for that model of keysight U1242.
@@diyelectronics5375 I've looked at two of their handheld meters and both did poorly. The last one by request was one of their high end models. It had a lot of problems.
@@diyelectronics5375 Sorry but I can't help you out much there as I have no idea how you define "good". I do keep metrics on the meters I have looked at and there are certainly trends. With you buying Keysight, I assume none of that is what you consider part of a good meter.
There are no updates available. You would have to purchase a new meter with the latest firmware. See the following: th-cam.com/video/ciwBB5kYvJM/w-d-xo.html You could possibly return the meter to the factory to have it upgraded and realigned but that's something you would need to work out with them.
@@joesmith-je3tq We should create a petition for Brymen to create a firmware update process or give(sell) the IC's with the newest firmware to those who want to update their own. Even if it voids their warranty. Edit bugger, needs realignment after you replace the chip. Bugger. I just wish I could extend the backlight timeout.
I would assume a chip programmer is needed to fix this? Is Bryman offering a solution to end users? Any links to a chip programmer that can handle this?
Which firmware version is the last fo bm 869S? Do they fix there strange Crest function behaviour then DMM show 0,2V more then it was measured in DCV mode? I guess ordinary users can’t fix bugs after they bought device using firmware update?
And people still ask themselves why flukes cost more than brymen, it's because they already identified and fixed probably many bugs like this one. And it happened some years ago, not now... That's how you notice a mature design. Nice video, keep them coming!
Flukes are bug free? I wasn't aware of that. You may want to help these people out: www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/fluke-87-dmm-bug-when-exiting-continuity-mode/
No. Disagree respectfully. Flukes have bugs in them. Brymen has lots of functionality which one way or another will get you the correct reading even with "the bug".
We have tried on this meter to place in parallel with the battery (just for the sake of the experimentation) 40-50pF capacitor. Clearly we see slight improvement in how it actually reacts to electromagnetic field after that.On mV rang we have seen afterwards the significant reduction in stray voltage amplitude. Functionality seems not affected after this change. If someone could try this and to report any changes would be interesting to see the result
Do you mean putting a capacitor in parallel with the batteries? But after them are power converters and a lot of tantalum and ceramic capacitors. Are you saying they are useless? In addition, the ADC is located under two foil and metal screens. Are they useless too?
@@тыкто-й7т Technicaly you are correct, it is not required, we did this as a matter of experiment. As you know the more capacitors of different nominal value you have the better filtration of the noise will be. We have made merely a suggestion to do this because batteries are not shielded and idea was to check if they contribute to the noise acting as an improvised antennae. The effect of noise reduction on mV range I would say very modest. However it present at least in the surroundings we have. It is not really needed as such because one way or another meter able to determine high resistance within the specs. Yet, may be if you are on the position to experiment with your meter you may try this as well to attempt to minimise the picked up EMF interference. For e.g. in TTL logic often capacitors of different value are used and directly attached to positive pin and negative pin of every chip to reduce interference from the power supply. We will be buying more of these models as they are well balanced for all needs we have.
I am glad that, although it wasn't a huge investment, that I purchased a BM-869S from a company that actually listens to, and takes action, on product issues. Try sending an e-mail to Fluke and see what happens. Thanks for the video and the info, I definitely appreciate your testing vids!
What's the point when they don't release the firmware updates to public? You know the bug was fixed but you can't update it yourself, and the only way is to send to some remote location to have it updated. Ridiculous.
We have checked BM786 again and if you put the multimeter in AutoHold as per manual meter warns you with dashes it is not getting a correct reading. This is good because you know this is an interference in this spot. Infact all meters we have tested in this spot have been affected by EMF. One note. If you switch to mV range and see how much parasite interference you are getting we kept BM786 in this mode and moved around. Yep. Where the mV value shown decreased to humble 6-10mV we did the measurement again of the resistance in auto mode and yielded correct and accurate results. We switched to AutoHold. Yep. Correct and accurate. Moved back to problematic spot and we saw dashes in AutoHold (meter as per manual tries to warn you) due to interference. Then later we found that one of the wires in power supply on mains was not properly connected and this why it was a lot of interference! Effectevely it comes down to user's quality of the workplace in terms of EMI. The user who reported the issue probably had bad power source etc Meter is working just as designed and its absolutely fine and spot on on all ranges etc. we will buy more of them also added 47nF capacitor in parallel with leads to eliminate most of interference. Meter would register on mV range up to 450mV without capacitor and 12mV or so with th he capacitor. This led to improvement of the overall readings though accuracy will most likely a little suffer fot this measurment. This meter is so great that infact we will be buying more of these Brymens
Checked it out. I walked around the apartment with a multimeter. The situation is not changing. Is there interference everywhere? Or should I make a shielded box and use the tester in it? That's funny.
So from what I can see Brymen reacted quickly but does not feel responsible for the multimeters sold so far? Sending the meter abroad to the manufacturer is not the right solution here (if even possible). From the user's perspective, this fix makes no practical difference to me. For Brymen, yes. They should allow users to update the firmware.
May be Brymen should allow this, yet looking at the overall quality of the meter they do seems care about the end user.
@@stanleywhiteman6450 I am not aware of any handheld DMM outside of Dave's 121GW that allows users to program their meter. I am interested in knowing what bug free meter you are using. The takeaway here was Brymen was willing to research it the problem and find a solution in very short order. To date, I have not seen another company respond like this.
@@joesmith-je3tq BM768 revision 78608. Its a workhorse. Sound meter and no surprises there.
For anyone interested in this meter, I purchased one on 1 August 2024 with 78913 firmware
Joe - can I upgrade firmware in my 4 year old BM869s to extend the backlight duration time or maybe we should cook up some kind of add-on mod that can be soldered into the board, maybe.
Outside of buying the latest revision or possibly sending it to the factory, I doubt it. I changed the IC on the one I demonstrated.
Just use autohold when it starts hunting in this auto range this should give fairly close results. This minor issue unfortunately also exist in BM786 rev 78608 (sold by Dave) however it looks like it only exist in the presense of very strong electromagnetic field. Check if EF sensor close to the source of electric field. It is still "A True Blue Multimeter".. :) (corrected 677kOm was the resistor value)
Or use manual range. Rare I would run into it in the first place under normal use.
@@joesmith-je3tq There is no problem with BM786 and this just has been confirmed, changing to less noisy (in terms of EMF) environment led to absolutely accurate reading, also with two different sets of leads, no, there is no problem. We have tried manual range and it also works fine. Even placed the meter 50 cm apart from the discovered main EMF source (and aparently earthing cable was found to be loose in the connection of this source) and it has improved its reading stright away. Most likely the user who reported the issue had very high level of EMF around the meter. Infact we had to check what is the RF field around just to be sure. What we have later found that also RF field was around 4.5-6 V/M in one of the points where meter BM786 exibited the issue. This is great result actually. This is in pair with Fluke 28II. Accuracy as one would expect in this RF field would drop but so was dropped the accuracy for Fluke 28II. Spacing apart the source of RF and Fluke 28II and Brymen BM786 stopped this issue all together.
Thank you for the review now i decided to buy keysight U1242 not brymen 👌
Hopefully your new KeySight meter holds up well. From my testing, they seem very weak electrically and mechanically.
@@joesmith-je3tq I am saving up to buy this coming December. I hope you can review that meter before I can buy it. Is it really good or not? There aren't enough reviews on TH-cam for that model of keysight U1242.
@@diyelectronics5375 I've looked at two of their handheld meters and both did poorly. The last one by request was one of their high end models. It had a lot of problems.
@@joesmith-je3tq What is a good meter besides the fluke? I often do audio amplifier and SMPS troubleshooting.
@@diyelectronics5375 Sorry but I can't help you out much there as I have no idea how you define "good". I do keep metrics on the meters I have looked at and there are certainly trends. With you buying Keysight, I assume none of that is what you consider part of a good meter.
Where do you find the updated firmware and how do you install it?
Yeah. Would be good to know. I thought you can't update the firmware
@@abeleski I think iyou might have to remove the microcontroller and replace it.
I'd like to know also.
There are no updates available. You would have to purchase a new meter with the latest firmware. See the following: th-cam.com/video/ciwBB5kYvJM/w-d-xo.html You could possibly return the meter to the factory to have it upgraded and realigned but that's something you would need to work out with them.
@@joesmith-je3tq We should create a petition for Brymen to create a firmware update process or give(sell) the IC's with the newest firmware to those who want to update their own. Even if it voids their warranty. Edit bugger, needs realignment after you replace the chip. Bugger. I just wish I could extend the backlight timeout.
I would assume a chip programmer is needed to fix this? Is Bryman offering a solution to end users? Any links to a chip programmer that can handle this?
I suspect end users would buy a new meter if this effected them of have the meter replaced under warranty.
Which firmware version is the last fo bm 869S? Do they fix there strange Crest function behaviour then DMM show 0,2V more then it was measured in DCV mode? I guess ordinary users can’t fix bugs after they bought device using firmware update?
You would have to buy a new meter. For finding out the the latest firmware version, I suggest contacting Brymen directly.
Why don't you test the TruRMS measurement at different frequencies and voltage shapes with this multimeter?
I did but you must not have watched or you are wanting be to do something beyond what I have shown.
@@joesmith-je3tq , If you are talking about your video "BM786 DMM Part 2", I watched it later. There really is this test.
@@Igor_user I was thinking of the review I did for the BM789.
By the time I ran the 789, the firmware was fairly stable. The meter was still not released.
And people still ask themselves why flukes cost more than brymen, it's because they already identified and fixed probably many bugs like this one. And it happened some years ago, not now... That's how you notice a mature design. Nice video, keep them coming!
Flukes are bug free? I wasn't aware of that. You may want to help these people out:
www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/fluke-87-dmm-bug-when-exiting-continuity-mode/
No. Disagree respectfully. Flukes have bugs in them. Brymen has lots of functionality which one way or another will get you the correct reading even with "the bug".
We have tried on this meter to place in parallel with the battery (just for the sake of the experimentation) 40-50pF capacitor. Clearly we see slight improvement in how it actually reacts to electromagnetic field after that.On mV rang we have seen afterwards the significant reduction in stray voltage amplitude. Functionality seems not affected after this change. If someone could try this and to report any changes would be interesting to see the result
Do you mean putting a capacitor in parallel with the batteries? But after them are power converters and a lot of tantalum and ceramic capacitors. Are you saying they are useless? In addition, the ADC is located under two foil and metal screens. Are they useless too?
@@тыкто-й7т Technicaly you are correct, it is not required, we did this as a matter of experiment. As you know the more capacitors of different nominal value you have the better filtration of the noise will be. We have made merely a suggestion to do this because batteries are not shielded and idea was to check if they contribute to the noise acting as an improvised antennae. The effect of noise reduction on mV range I would say very modest. However it present at least in the surroundings we have. It is not really needed as such because one way or another meter able to determine high resistance within the specs. Yet, may be if you are on the position to experiment with your meter you may try this as well to attempt to minimise the picked up EMF interference. For e.g. in TTL logic often capacitors of different value are used and directly attached to positive pin and negative pin of every chip to reduce interference from the power supply. We will be buying more of these models as they are well balanced for all needs we have.
Excellent! Enjoyed watching, thanks.