Considering you spend multiple hours focused on just model trains and carrying out time consuming precise building. Your actually an extremely good TH-cam speaker/informer. This video really helped me as I need signal ideas for a model train set I’m building.
Great video Josh! I can only imagine how much effort has gone into this production! Thank you for putting it together. It will be a valuable resource for myself and others down the road. Looking forward to the entire series. Thanks again for sharing, Ethan
great information in regards to basic American signaling. Thanks. Now comes the challenge on my layout. I am currently re doing my layout and installing modern electric signals. I model both American and NSW Australian Railroad, the basic block signaling is the same until we get to the diverging tracks. In NSW it is different. With the double head signals, Yellow on top means diverging route, the bottom 3 lights indicate what the next signal is, according to the block signal rules. Eg; Yellow over Red next signal at red. In some cases you will get Yellow over Yellow, meaning slow speed diverging track/next signal is at slow caution. Now the challenge shall be to work a system where I can do both systems at a flick of a switch.
Arty Zearo I think that could easily be done through cats. As long as the signals them selves are not too different, you could create two different CATS panel (computer files) for each railroad, each one with the specific signaling aspects. Just an idea!
The modern signal aspects are very very similar to the 2 regions between Australian and US, the biggest difference between the 2 regions is on the dual track our trains pass on the left instead of the right. So the signaling on my layout will need to be done as Bi Directional on dual tracks..It can be done, just sitting here typing this the only real set back is the expense, extra signal. I should be able to use the same panel, I'll update you when it is completed.
Thanks for the explanation info. Am in the early planning stages for my layout. Haven't started yet, am getting as much experienced info first so I will know exactly what I need. I do know I will be using the DCC systems. Am learning everything I can before construction begins. Thanks again, I will continue to watch.
How are you coming with you investigation? I'm having a hard time getting software installed. Maybe we could talk because it seems Josh has gone off to college or? To bad, he made a great series.
On NS in CTC territory on Southern Lines the intermediate signals always have a mile marker plate under the signal heads. Older Southern style intermediate signals are offset. The newer PTC signals are not. When a train is going to take a diverging route at the next CP the intermediate signal will show an approach diverging (yellow over green). A flashing yellow signal on NS Southern lines is an approach restricted and would be necessary where you would need to approach the next signal at restricted speed not exceeding 15 mph. This signal is often used where the next signal would be capable of displaying a restricted signal (two reds over a yellow). Trains encountering a restricted signal must not exceed restricted speed and be capable of stopping within one half range of vision looking out for obstructions, trains, broken rail or equipment on the track ahead.
Love the layout, just want to say that i have a small garage layout. Its about 5ft by 10ft, small by your standards. I do have signals that are not hooked up or even placed as of yet, but i did get some ideas of where to place them. The wiring kinda scares me, but im sure i can do it. Its just a daunting task for a relative rookie and my understanding of wiring and all this other stuff is very basic. Look forward to seeing more of your videos.
Well done! I agree, signals add a lot to the layout. I use Digitrax on my N scale layout and have been thinking about adding signals. Looking forward to the next videos!
If you have any questions about signals, feel free to get in touch with me. I'm currently a conductor intern and will actually be heading to work for CP within the next week.
You have made the signaling concept very understandable in the way you presented the difference between CTC and ABS. Also, what is a control point. Will you be doing any presentation on "CATS"? I tried to download and from what I see I on my computer, I was not successful. I am running window 8.1. Got the latest version of JMRI, but no luck, as far as I can tell with CATS. I watched all you model video's over the long weekend. The progression is amazing and very well done. I live close to the Geneva Sub about 60 miles west of Chicago, IL and am a UP modeler and railfan. Please keep the video's coming as you have time. They really help seeing the big picture, but also how to break things down in managable componenets.
I have a small Marklin Z set up running 3 trains. I would love to add some signal lights buts they say very expensive to do. Marklin does make signal lights but which one would be the first to try. Wish I could send you a pic of the layout. Thanks Ron
Great tutorial! That was a very good production. I do have a question that you might be able to help with. So right now, I'm actually designing a new BNSF double-deck layout based based from Nebraska to Southern Minnesota. I plan on using a single mainline. Originally, I was going to use ABS, and for the dispatcher, I was going to use Track Warrant Control. I decided on TWC because it would be simple and provide direct interaction with the dispatcher and train crews. And I was unsure about using CTC because I thought that TWC would provide a more interactive experience and it had been implied that CTC isn't as interesting to operate with. But does it even make sense to use ABS and TWC? There are examples of the two systems being used in conjunction on BNSF, but it might make more sense to run the layout off of CTC? So should I instead use CTC? It's no problem if you don't know. I kind of threw a lot out there. I'm just a little confused on what the best option is. Thanks! -Cam
Most lines that have ABS signaling are also under control of the dispatcher via TWC. For example, when you have a main line such as the NS S-Line that is well over 100 miles in length, you can't really run the entire line purely off of the signal indications. So for the ABS mainlines on Norfolk Southern, the dispatcher will give a train crew a track warrant with information such as how far they are allowed to travel, what trains they will be meeting etc. Now, I'm not sure how BNSF works but I know that NS also will give track authorities to local trains, even if the track is CTC controlled. So, really it's up to you. In my opinion, CTC provides a much more immersive experience than just TWC because the dispatcher is constantly having to pay attention to train movement and line routes accordingly.
Grayson Moore Thanks for the input! That really helps. I think I'll probably use CTC. As I said, I originally planned on TWC/ABS, but CTC seems to make more sense for the situation that I have. The layout itself isn't a massive rail network, but the two decks are actually modeling two different locations that represent the long mainline I'm modeling. So I think CTC would be more appropriate to manage that rail line because it would probably be unlikely to have the entire mainline (from Crawford, NE to St. Paul, MN) to be controlled by one dispatcher under TWC/ABS. It's definitely possible, but with your preference of CTC and the overwhelming presence of CTC on BNSF, I think I'm leaning that way. Again, thanks for the input! -Cam
railfan220 Grayson Moore I know I'm late to this, but I used to work at BNSF. Grayson pretty much covered it but I'll add a little. Basically, ABS does not give a train "authority" to occupy a main track (in CTC, your signal is your authority). So in ABS you need some type of authority to be out there, whether you're a train, track gang, or whatever. Most commonly that would be a track warrant, but it could also be: Yard Limits. Restricted Limits. Block Register Territory (have no idea where this is used). Movement With the Current of Traffic (double track ABS). Movement Against the Current of Traffic (double track ABS). Occupancy Control System (only used in one location I believe). At Manual Interlockings, verbal authority by the operator or a controlled signal indicating proceed. Track Permit. Protection When Tracks Removed From Service. Special Instructions or General Order. There is also rule that specifies how to foul or occupy a main track in ABS when unable to obtain authority titled "Signal Protection in ABS by Lining Switch." Direct Traffic Control rules are in the GCOR, but DTC is not used on the BNSF.
railfan220 Oh and for what it's worth, the terms 'double track' and 'two main tracks' are not the same. Double track means two tracks that have signals for movement in one direction each, like a street (movement with the current of traffic) and are ABS only. Two main tracks means two tracks that are each signaled in both directions and use CTC.
sharkheadism Hey! Thanks so much for sharing your knowledge! It really helps. It makes more sense now because with ABS being automatic, someone would have to give authority to somewhere whereas with CTC, someone is giving you authority by setting routes and changing signals. Makes more sense now. And thanks for the tip on terminology. I had no idea, and there's clearly a difference. Thanks for that! -Cam
Hi. Well, I building my layout and will soon start signaling and detection. I manually control my turn outs with servos. Do you think I should change this system or this system can be managed by the computer interface you mentioned?
Ayye bro I can't remember if I asked you this before but I'm doing a youtube video of the greatest model railroads I see on here and I wanted to know if I could use some of your footage and put it in my video. Looking forward to hearing back from you!
+TheSteamKing hi everyone ,if anyone else trying to find out building model railroad try Panlarko Amazing Railroad Planner (do a google search ) ? Ive heard some great things about it and my neighbor got great success with it.
hey ,if anyone else wants to learn about model railroad layout try Panlarko Amazing Railroad Planner (do a search on google ) ? Ive heard some super things about it and my mate got great success with it.
I'm trying to install all the required software needed to operate this system but seem to be up against a wall. As with anything dealing with computers, things have changed a lot since you made your videos. Is there anyway I can get updated instructions?
Thanks for clearing things up. It is kinda fun to be taught by your own son! :- )
I'll see you downstairs!
wtf
@@Buzzlybee that's his real dad what do u mean wtf
Over time, once I'm ready for signals, I think I'll be using this video as a perfect reference!
Considering you spend multiple hours focused on just model trains and carrying out time consuming precise building. Your actually an extremely good TH-cam speaker/informer. This video really helped me as I need signal ideas for a model train set I’m building.
Great video Josh! I can only imagine how much effort has gone into this production! Thank you for putting it together. It will be a valuable resource for myself and others down the road. Looking forward to the entire series. Thanks again for sharing,
Ethan
Great info! Thanks Josh, looking forward to the next part…
Nice job Josh. Very clear descriptions made it nice and easy to understand. I'm looking forward to the others. I'm loving the white board idea.
I have always wondered how they worked. Thanks for showing, waiting for the next video.
Check out Distant Signal Railfan Danny's videos he explains signals really well
@@pip12111 I watch him quite a bit
great information in regards to basic American signaling. Thanks. Now comes the challenge on my layout. I am currently re doing my layout and installing modern electric signals. I model both American and NSW Australian Railroad, the basic block signaling is the same until we get to the diverging tracks. In NSW it is different. With the double head signals, Yellow on top means diverging route, the bottom 3 lights indicate what the next signal is, according to the block signal rules. Eg; Yellow over Red next signal at red. In some cases you will get Yellow over Yellow, meaning slow speed diverging track/next signal is at slow caution. Now the challenge shall be to work a system where I can do both systems at a flick of a switch.
Arty Zearo I think that could easily be done through cats. As long as the signals them selves are not too different, you could create two different CATS panel (computer files) for each railroad, each one with the specific signaling aspects. Just an idea!
The modern signal aspects are very very similar to the 2 regions between Australian and US, the biggest difference between the 2 regions is on the dual track our trains pass on the left instead of the right. So the signaling on my layout will need to be done as Bi Directional on dual tracks..It can be done, just sitting here typing this the only real set back is the expense, extra signal. I should be able to use the same panel, I'll update you when it is completed.
Great info. I will definitely be using this to help me do my signaling. Look forward to seeing the next video!
Thanks for the explanation info. Am in the early planning stages for my layout. Haven't started yet, am getting as much experienced info first so I will know exactly what I need. I do know I will be using the DCC systems. Am learning everything I can before construction begins. Thanks again, I will continue to watch.
How are you coming with you investigation? I'm having a hard time getting software installed. Maybe we could talk because it seems Josh has gone off to college or? To bad, he made a great series.
On NS in CTC territory on Southern Lines the intermediate signals always have a mile marker plate under the signal heads. Older Southern style intermediate signals are offset. The newer PTC signals are not. When a train is going to take a diverging route at the next CP the intermediate signal will show an approach diverging (yellow over green). A flashing yellow signal on NS Southern lines is an approach restricted and would be necessary where you would need to approach the next signal at restricted speed not exceeding 15 mph. This signal is often used where the next signal would be capable of displaying a restricted signal (two reds over a yellow). Trains encountering a restricted signal must not exceed restricted speed and be capable of stopping within one half range of vision looking out for obstructions, trains, broken rail or equipment on the track ahead.
this is a simplified method, I just wish I'm good enough in sharing it to my nephews~ might as well let them watch this themselves!
Love the layout, just want to say that i have a small garage layout. Its about 5ft by 10ft, small by your standards. I do have signals that are not hooked up or even placed as of yet, but i did get some ideas of where to place them. The wiring kinda scares me, but im sure i can do it. Its just a daunting task for a relative rookie and my understanding of wiring and all this other stuff is very basic. Look forward to seeing more of your videos.
Well done! I agree, signals add a lot to the layout. I use Digitrax on my N scale layout and have been thinking about adding signals. Looking forward to the next videos!
Well done Josh. Keep 'em coming.
Super series! Very informative! Can't wait for the next video!
Very nice Mr Josh. Cant wait for part 2. Later, John
Great video! Can't wait for the rest.
If you have any questions about signals, feel free to get in touch with me. I'm currently a conductor intern and will actually be heading to work for CP within the next week.
Great info. Should be a good series.
Scott
Very nice! Simple, but quite informative!
If I am understanding you correctly the CP's do not require detection. If so, that is a huge savings on the number of detection blocks needed.
You have made the signaling concept very understandable in the way you presented the difference between CTC and ABS. Also, what is a control point. Will you be
doing any presentation on "CATS"? I tried to download and from what I see I on my
computer, I was not successful. I am running window 8.1. Got the latest version
of JMRI, but no luck, as far as I can tell with CATS. I watched all you model video's over the long weekend. The progression is amazing and very well done. I live close to the Geneva Sub about 60 miles west of Chicago, IL and am a UP modeler and
railfan. Please keep the video's coming as you have time. They really help seeing the big picture, but also how to break things down in managable componenets.
Were you ever able to get the software up and running? I'm running Windows 10 and I just can't seem to duplicate what these videos show us.
Cant wait to see the next! Thank you!
Oh man, I learned a lot from this video! 👍🏿👍🏿
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Awesome vid for someone like me starting out on my own. Are you cutting both rails? And still running it of of rail b and rail a coming out of the bld
Thanks for the info very helpful.
SUPERB video.
great, i dont have no layout yet but I would like to have one in the basement, going around the walls and use signalling system. ABS and CTC too.
I have a small Marklin Z set up running 3 trains. I would love to add some signal lights buts they say very expensive to do. Marklin does make signal lights but which one would be the first to try. Wish I could send you a pic of the layout. Thanks Ron
Great video Josh is there anyway I can ask you more questions aside from on TH-cam?
Great tutorial! That was a very good production. I do have a question that you might be able to help with. So right now, I'm actually designing a new BNSF double-deck layout based based from Nebraska to Southern Minnesota. I plan on using a single mainline. Originally, I was going to use ABS, and for the dispatcher, I was going to use Track Warrant Control. I decided on TWC because it would be simple and provide direct interaction with the dispatcher and train crews. And I was unsure about using CTC because I thought that TWC would provide a more interactive experience and it had been implied that CTC isn't as interesting to operate with. But does it even make sense to use ABS and TWC? There are examples of the two systems being used in conjunction on BNSF, but it might make more sense to run the layout off of CTC? So should I instead use CTC? It's no problem if you don't know. I kind of threw a lot out there. I'm just a little confused on what the best option is. Thanks!
-Cam
Most lines that have ABS signaling are also under control of the dispatcher via TWC. For example, when you have a main line such as the NS S-Line that is well over 100 miles in length, you can't really run the entire line purely off of the signal indications. So for the ABS mainlines on Norfolk Southern, the dispatcher will give a train crew a track warrant with information such as how far they are allowed to travel, what trains they will be meeting etc. Now, I'm not sure how BNSF works but I know that NS also will give track authorities to local trains, even if the track is CTC controlled. So, really it's up to you. In my opinion, CTC provides a much more immersive experience than just TWC because the dispatcher is constantly having to pay attention to train movement and line routes accordingly.
Grayson Moore Thanks for the input! That really helps. I think I'll probably use CTC. As I said, I originally planned on TWC/ABS, but CTC seems to make more sense for the situation that I have. The layout itself isn't a massive rail network, but the two decks are actually modeling two different locations that represent the long mainline I'm modeling. So I think CTC would be more appropriate to manage that rail line because it would probably be unlikely to have the entire mainline (from Crawford, NE to St. Paul, MN) to be controlled by one dispatcher under TWC/ABS. It's definitely possible, but with your preference of CTC and the overwhelming presence of CTC on BNSF, I think I'm leaning that way. Again, thanks for the input!
-Cam
railfan220 Grayson Moore I know I'm late to this, but I used to work at BNSF. Grayson pretty much covered it but I'll add a little. Basically, ABS does not give a train "authority" to occupy a main track (in CTC, your signal is your authority). So in ABS you need some type of authority to be out there, whether you're a train, track gang, or whatever. Most commonly that would be a track warrant, but it could also be:
Yard Limits.
Restricted Limits.
Block Register Territory (have no idea where this is used).
Movement With the Current of Traffic (double track ABS).
Movement Against the Current of Traffic (double track ABS).
Occupancy Control System (only used in one location I believe).
At Manual Interlockings, verbal authority by the operator or a controlled signal indicating proceed.
Track Permit.
Protection When Tracks Removed From Service.
Special Instructions or General Order.
There is also rule that specifies how to foul or occupy a main track in ABS when unable to obtain authority titled "Signal Protection in ABS by Lining Switch."
Direct Traffic Control rules are in the GCOR, but DTC is not used on the BNSF.
railfan220 Oh and for what it's worth, the terms 'double track' and 'two main tracks' are not the same. Double track means two tracks that have signals for movement in one direction each, like a street (movement with the current of traffic) and are ABS only. Two main tracks means two tracks that are each signaled in both directions and use CTC.
sharkheadism Hey! Thanks so much for sharing your knowledge! It really helps. It makes more sense now because with ABS being automatic, someone would have to give authority to somewhere whereas with CTC, someone is giving you authority by setting routes and changing signals. Makes more sense now. And thanks for the tip on terminology. I had no idea, and there's clearly a difference. Thanks for that!
-Cam
Who has custom made the one over three signal for you ?
Hi. Well, I building my layout and will soon start signaling and detection. I manually control my turn outs with servos. Do you think I should change this system or this system can be managed by the computer interface you mentioned?
Josh, lots of good info. I sent you a PM and a gmail...
Great info TY
if MTH Premier made that big cantilever signal in o scale, id be soooooo happy.
Thanks Josh! I have a question, How do you decide where to place your signals? How do they position and place signals in the real world?
Thats exactly what Ill be covering in my next video! I think I may be able to explain it better there than on a comment.
ok cool thanks!!
Great video it helped me understand better how things work can't wait for #2
Ayye bro I can't remember if I asked you this before but I'm doing a youtube video of the greatest model railroads I see on here and I wanted to know if I could use some of your footage and put it in my video. Looking forward to hearing back from you!
Railroadkid1937 Hi, as long as you don't take credit for it thats ok
Awesome and of course not. All credit goes to you!
+TheSteamKing hi everyone ,if anyone else trying to find out building model railroad try Panlarko Amazing Railroad Planner (do a google search ) ? Ive heard some great things about it and my neighbor got great success with it.
WOW!
hey ,if anyone else wants to learn about model railroad layout try Panlarko Amazing Railroad Planner (do a search on google ) ? Ive heard some super things about it and my mate got great success with it.
What brand do you use
Can you do a video of making your own signals?
Great video... but the back ground music...
I'm trying to install all the required software needed to operate this system but seem to be up against a wall. As with anything dealing with computers, things have changed a lot since you made your videos. Is there anyway I can get updated instructions?
Could i have both??? A toggleable ctc
Hey good information. Not a fan of your choice of background music. Just sayin
Does your father work for NS?
Nope. I work for the airlines, but enjoy model railroading.
You said nothing helpful in the whole 1st third of the video.
Thanks for the info