By Request- A Response to The Trinity Delusion
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ต.ค. 2024
- Something different- A quick rebuttal to some prior existing arguments that intersect with some of the content in my recently posted Trinitarian discourse: • A Discourse on Trinita...
The arguments cited here can be viewed on the Trinity Delusion Channel: • 10 Trinity Doctrine Fa...
Email me at: islamcritiqued@gmail.com
Support me on Patreon: / islamcritiqued
bro I really feel for you, that you have to endure watching these false teachers, God bless your calling and patience
I have another one prepared but can't find the motivation to actually produce it. What a bore.
@@IslamCritiqued feel you bro ,
Take time refresh youre self ,
Then go back to war ,with energy n strengh
@@IslamCritiqued 🤣Maybe if you'd actually pay attention in spite of your boredom, you'd learn something. You are so far from Truth...In no way should you be teaching anyone. Point them to the real teacher and master, the Son of God.
@Bobby Chuckles I agree. So far from what I have seen @Islam failed to refute anything from the Trinity Delusion. The boredom you are seeing is typical of trinitarians that use denial as a justification for not addressing the truth at hand. @Islam is being intellectually and scripturally dishonest.
Which sounds really stupid...
You hit the nail on the head, stupid according to who? I say the same to Muslims as atheists say believing in God is stupid, if these believers were consistent they would become atheists.
I hope you do decide to do more Unitarian videos really enjoyed your response.
Beware this wolf twisting the scriptures....
Jude did NOT write that JESUS led God's people out of Egypt. Lets look at it....
Jude 1
4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying THE ONLY LORD GOD, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord(GOD), having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.
This video successfully shows that angels are perfect agents of YHWH. Nothing more.
THE ONE AND ONLY GOD IS JESUS CHRIST'S GOD. John 17:3 John 20:17
@@bobbychuckles8764 yes in regards to his human nature… Jesus is the one true God with the father who is also the one true God with the holy spirit which is the one true God… three persons 1 true God
@@MaxwellTL 3 persons is 3 gods. Sorry but your irrational triune concept is a false god. Jesus tells us who his God is many times. He tells you to worship his Father, and to pray to his Father... And in the end the Risen Son submits to the Father who is his God. Jesus also tells us MANY times that its his God and Father who does ALL the works..... No... Instead Jesus is the first born of the new creation. He is the first of many, the preeminent child of YHWH his Father. He is the only doorway to the Spirit of God (the Father's consciousness He shares with all his children). The One True God is Jesus Christ's God. John 20:17, John 17:3, Rev 3:12.... Shalom.
@@bobbychuckles8764 ah yes because we must bring down God to our size so we can comprehend him… remember we’re made in HIS image and not ours, As inferior beings we are to understand that God is infinity greater than us in everything, so 3 persons is in fact 1 God. The bible says Lord Jesus is God multiple times but I’m assuming you’re using a corrupt translation. [John 1:1, Hebrews 1:5-8, 2 Peter 1:1]
Jesus was not created friend… read this: “All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.”- John 1:3. Therefore Jesus isn’t created and is the eternal one true God.
The doctrine of the trinity is very much salvific : “I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins.” - John 8:24
@@MaxwellTL When was Jesus begotten? Is he the first born of the new creation or the genesis creation? John 1 is speaking of the beginning to the new creation. The Risen Son being the first of the completely new spiritually glorified creation. Shalom.
Justin’s Dialogue with Trypho is seen as one of the major patristic places where “Logos theology” or the actions of the pre-existent Son are discussed, including Him being known as “Angel.” Justin especially focuses on the episode with Joshua sacrificing to the Angel.
Edit: All power to you for being this patient with him. I came across his channel some time ago, watched for about 3 minutes, got a headache, and then moved on. Some seriously tired arguments that were answered about 1600 years ago.
1600? why not 2000? Why’d it take 400 years? Justin’s dialogue with Trypho is just aping Plato’s Timaeus
@@AleksandrGabachev I think that is a poor reading of both the Dialogue and Timaeus. The genre of dialogue was wide-spread in the Classical world among philosophers. Plenty more than Plato wrote dialogues. So, unless you have a specific reason why Justin-a Middle Platonist-would be “aping” the Timaeus, I would respectfully disagree.
@@Gjergji311 cool can you answer my first question now
@@AleksandrGabachev Because the revelation of the Trinity did not come with an exhaustive manual. We already have appeals to the Son in the Old Testament in Matthew and John, in the letters of Paul, and in Hebrews. However, cataloguing and thinking through all the epiphanies of the Son took time and the Christian community had a multitude of problems to be concerned with. All that said, the Dialogue is a mid-second century work, so it’s more like 100 years after Christ. My reference to 1600 years was to the works of Athanasius and Basil (among others) who finally and definitively answer these kinds of questions to the point that proponents of anti-Trinitarian heresies have to flee the Empire to gain followers. Their modern descendants do essentially the same thing, but whereas in the fourth century one had to walk far enough to find a dearth of Greek knowledge, in the 21st century they merely have to encounter people who are lazy and don’t know Church history.
@@Gjergji311 yes I know you blow Anthanasius. I’ll ask again, why 1600? Why not 2000? You are just spouting mumbo jumbo. you can’t even answer simple questions.
uh I just realised that if the Son of Man is all of us, we get to cloud surf.
We wouldn't need to go to the supermarket for fish or bread.
Thanks for making this video, this guy was SERIOUSLY bothering me, lol. Jesus is God.
You're welcome
Islam Critiqued I actually did come across several rebuttals, and I would ask you please do your BEST to refute them because I will not worship a created being:
1) John 20:28- “Jesus and the disciples would have been speaking aramaic. Thomas called Jesus his adoni and eli. Eli is the same as saying Elohim in Hebrew. For example, Yahweh refers to Moses as Elohim. The greek word for Elohim is theos, which in English is God. This is where the confusion is. In conclusion when Thomas says God it could mean mighty one or powerful one.” It could also easily mean this: “And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord(Jesus) and my God(your father and my father, your God and my God).(brackets added).”
2) John 1:18- it makes way more logical sense that it says “begotton god” not the father or trinity.
3) Colossians 1:15-16- This says Jesus is the firstborn of call creation. Doesn’t that mean He is the first thing created/best thing created?
4) John 17:3- Jesus says that He and God are not the same.
5) 1 Corinthians 8:6- Paul says that the only God is the Father, and the only Lord is Jesus.
6) John 20:17 and many other places- Jesus says “my God” implying He isn’t God. JESUS SAYS HIS GOD (the father, the only God) and the disciples God! Doesn’t this prove Jesus is not God?
Lastly, couldn’t God have just given Jesus permission forgive sins?
Sir this is actually worrying me, it would really help if you refute these properly. Take your time.
I can't address all of these, I'm sorry. This would require many pages of writing. This is all seriously confused: "Jesus and the disciples would have been speaking aramaic. Thomas called Jesus his adoni and eli. Eli is the same as saying Elohim in Hebrew. For example, Yahweh refers to Moses as Elohim. The greek word for Elohim is theos, which in English is God. This is where the confusion is. In conclusion when Thomas says God it could mean mighty one or powerful one.” The name Thomas uses is the greek that was used to translate the divine name in the Greek Septuagint. What Thomas says is quite clear. Elohim is a term for spiritual beings in the Old Testament.
For a discussion of begotten, see me here: th-cam.com/video/Lide-aOlSWw/w-d-xo.html
"Jesus says that He and God are not the same." They aren't, that's modalism.
"couldn’t God have just given Jesus permission forgive sins?" Did Jesus say that's what happened?
I will be honest, your questions betray a very simplistic, cursory reading of the text. I would encourage you to get some good commentaries and ready more carefully. For resources, see here: th-cam.com/video/-ogC44EYwdI/w-d-xo.html
Islam Critiqued Its fine. Can you answer this though: could john 1:1-3 mean that the word was just a divine being, and not god? (If you read the greek)
No, theos would have been quite clear to John's audience, as it is to us.
Great stuff bro! Islam is my specialty as well, however you’ve got some pretty good material as well.
Glad you're enjoying!
You struck with surgical precision. In broader terms, I would say that one could not read the New Testament in it's entirety without coming to the conclusion that Jesus is divine. Aside from the synoptic gospels, the rest of the NT makes little sense if Jesus was not divine. It's obvious his arguments are targeting those who haven't read the Bible through for themselves.
And another thing...
LIAR...
Like the old serpent.
@Christian Man Well said...
God Bless you ..
@Christian Man Christian Man In the beginning was the Word..... who is that word? What did that word become? You're lost mate. Yet you wanna bleat to others.get outta here!
Matt 28:19
Therefore, go and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.
Hmmmm, in the name of who Jesus? The Father,The Son and the Holy Spirit did you say? Funny you say that Jesus, sounds like the Holy Trinity to me!
"Sure, Jesus was divine because he had the spirit of the Father was working in Jesus" ....
In the beginning was the Word......
Says You?!lol
2 Timothy 4. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turnaway their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
Apart from Jesus does,, why would he command the disciples to go out and baptise in the name of The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit?? You blind guy!!
@Islam Critiqued I wouldn't say you were being Machiavellian at all...blunt perhaps, but certainly not sneaky, or cunning (in the negative sense).
Thanks Auralae
@@IslamCritiqued I can't adequately express how much I'm enjoying your videos, nor how grateful I am for the hours upon hours of work you're putting into them. I pray they bear much fruit!!
@Shema Echad I believe the words you were looking for were "...sure love being the choir preached to." The word 'love' should be in the singular, since it's one feeling, though shared by many, while the word 'preached' should be the verbal form, since that's most appropriate if you meant to convey that Islam Critiqued was in the position of "preaching to the choir" as the saying goes.
Now, as to the second sentence, I'm less sure there...exactly which substance to who's reply were you referring to? The thanks, or my appreciation for his work, or the video reply itself? Regardless, just because you don't like something doesn't negate it's substance.
I watched 4 minutes and 32 seconds of this video and knew that the fellow making it has no clue about who God is and who Jesus is. Couldn't go any farther.
Okay people, the time for FRUITLESS DEBATES is OVER!!
We need to FIND OUT what we're REALLY MADE OF!!!
It isn't JUST America that is facing trouble--it's the ENTIRE
WORLD!! We need--more than EVER--to PRAY for this
World, and EACH OTHER!!
Hahaha you are so funny, love your facial expression, great humor, good work Islam Critiqued.
Switching the function and the ontology is the main error of the filioque. You have To be consistent and join orthodoxy.
Amen, fellow Orthobro.
This guy seems to be critical of The Trinity Delusion on things that he says were being said, but where not. Despite the fact that he points out The TD speaker has a habit of repeating himself. It's amazing how he still failed to grasp it. And then goes on to criticise the speaker for the wrong conclusions he personally drew from it.
Exactly. False teacher calling others false....
As I keep going back with myself and my own problems, "you have questions, you have not found errors. It's not the bible's fault, I just am ignorant on the answer."
He definitely is not filled with the Holy Spirit, honestly, I doubt if he is even Born Again by the Spirit of God. I believe he is very confused or he is purposefully being deceptive.
@Islam Critiqued, there are just so many problems with your attempted rebuttal of Kel's video. I find no substance in your rebuttal.
First of all regardless of whatever you wish to say the angel of the LORD is or was in the OT, the fact remains that there is no place whatsoever that the scriptures teach or suggest that the angel of the Lord was Jesus Christ the a pre-incarnate God the Son. This conclusion is simply based on the speculations and conjecture or Trinitarians and nothing more
Secondly, many manuscripts of the book of Jude don't say that it was Jesus that led the children out of the Egypt. You have only chosen selective mistranslated texts to suit your own argument. Many translations correctly render it as the Lord (referring to God the Father) and not Jesus.
NIV 5Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord at one time delivered his people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe.
We know this refers to the Father because both the old and New Testaments confirm the prophecy where the Father said "out of Egypt have I called my Son". This was a dual prophecy fulfilled in Israel as a nation called out of Egypt and Jesus, his son being being taken to Egypt for safety after Herod sought to kill him.
New International Version
(Hosea 11:1)
"When Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my son.
(Mat 2:15) New International Version
where he stayed until the death of Herod. And so was fulfilled what the Lord had said through the prophet: "Out of Egypt I called my son."
The bible does not teach in any place whatsoever that it was Jesus, the Son of God that led the Children of Israel out of Egypt. It was the Son that was called out of Egypt - not some imaginary pre-incarnate God the Son leading the Israelites out of Egype. We also know this to be so because in all the divers manners God dealt and spoke in the Old Testament, the scriptures are crystal clear that it was God the Father that spoke in whatever diverse manner we see in the OT but had only spoken to us in these last days by his Son.
Heb 1:1On many past occasions and in many different ways, God spoke to our fathers through the prophets. 2But in these last days He has spoken to us by His Son,a whom He appointed heir of all things, and through whom He made the universe.
If the Son as a literal person DISTINCT from the Father, was already speaking as God the Son to people in the OT and leading them in the wilderness, then Heb 1 will make no sense whatsoever as it clearly states that it is only in these last days God has spoken by his Son. So there was no Son speaking to anyone in the OT. It is that simple
Regarding the Son of Man, used as a title for Jesus, your rebuttal is very weak. It is simple. if you wish to argue that this title means much more than that which is referred to as a man or prophet, then you also have to argue that some of the prophets of old like Ezekiel who was also referred to as "Son of Man" had to also be God or one who was more than a man.
Eze 2:1 And he said unto me, Son of man, stand upon thy feet, and I will speak unto thee.
You can have your cake and eat it mate.
Another evident twist and gymnastics you attempted to perform was you blatant denial of the simple text which clearly showed that it was God the Father that gave Jesus the power and authority to forgive sins and work miracles. The Jews acknowledged this in Mat 9:8 but you attempt to deny this with the usual Trinitarian gymnastics. The holistic reading of all scriptural texts and Jesus' very own words which he made clear in other passages clearly vindicates this fact and puts into proper context all that Jesus did. For example. see this.
John 5
19So Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, the Son can do nothing by Himself, unless He sees the Father doing it. For whatever the Father does, the Son also does. 20The Father loves the Son and shows Him all He does. And to your amazement, He will show Him even greater works than these. 21For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to whom He wishes.
22Furthermore, the Father judges no one, but has assigned all judgment to the Son, 23so that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.
24Truly, truly, I tell you, whoever hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life and will not come under judgment. Indeed, he has crossed over from death to life.
25Truly, truly, I tell you, the hour is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. 26For as the Father has life in Himself, so also He has granted the Son to have life in Himself. 27And He has given Him authority to execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man.
28Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming when all who are in their graves will hear His voice 29and come out-those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.e
John 8:28, NIV: "So Jesus said, 'When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am he and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me."
Any sincere and honest person who reads the above will clearly see Jesus depends on the Father to show him things before he does them and received all authority to do what he does from the Father.
I could go on and on but I do not think it is necessary. I think any honest person who seeks to go with what the scriptures have explicitly stated about the one God will readily and easily see why the doctrine of the Trinity is evidently a false doctrine at variance with and one inimical to the scriptures.
Shalom
th-cam.com/video/ObtYkLHu_CM/w-d-xo.html, th-cam.com/video/JQ0llhZ0cho/w-d-xo.html, th-cam.com/video/8YbI04WhH8I/w-d-xo.html. Everything you said has already been addressed.
See more here: th-cam.com/video/tHpBtR3XrZA/w-d-xo.html. Much could be said about your comments on Hebrews which are entirely self-defeating and nonsensical. I suggest you incorporate more than one phrase into your argument. Also, the son of man in Daniel 7 is NOT a passage you want to cite in support of your view.
God bless you
@Shema Echad There is only One. In Three persons. As all Christians have confessed for 2000 years. If you're choosing not to understand Christian doctrine, don't criticise it.
@Shema Echad It is non-Trinitarianism/unitarianism which has always had paganism as its basis, not Trinitarianism. Unitarianism is neoplatonism. The people who rejected the Trinity did so on the basis of pagan, Greek philosophy. If you weren't historically illiterate, you would know this. The Trinity has nothing to do with paganism, and never has. Many Jews believed the Trinity or something very similar to it even before the advent of Christianity, and it was only outlawed amongst the Jews by rabbis in the 2nd century after Christ who wanted to prevent Jews from converting to Christianity.
I would like to asked two questions what is the name of the Holy Spirit ? God has name Jesus has a name angels have names people have names.
God is the father and Jesus is the son who is the holy spirit in the trinity family strcuture is he Jesus brother or uncle?
It's funny how often people "refute" the doctrine of the Trinity on the grounds of "It Doesn't Make sense (to me)". I now preemptively remind Muslims that the nature of God is not subject to His creature's comprehension. If one's objections to the Trinity all boil down to the inability to transcend Unitarianism, then the problem is not with the doctrine.
wlan2 that’s one of the few things that irks me the most. Along with stupid. Like reality does work based on ur understanding ex: quantum physics
I can't stomach the trinity delusion, it's like listening to the devil, imo. Seems that he is saying that Jesus is just a common man who was given authority by the Father.
@Tyler B #2 Jesus is still a mere human he comes back as a human not as God
You're brilliant! Thanks for your hard work. God bless!
He isn't brilliant at all Trinity delusion is spot on
@@smk1189 God is spirit and he is holy.God is Holy Spirit...the "Holy Spirit"is not a 3rd person of a supposed three person God.
The Holy Spirit is also referred to as the Spirit of Christ and also the Spirit of the Father...how then could the Holy Spirit be a separate 3rd person.
And if as scripture teaches the "Holy Spirit" conceived Jesus in Mary's womb.... how come Jesus then never refers to the Spirit as his Father but always referred to God the Father as his Father?
The Holy Spirit is The Father's personal presence and power that abides with and within His begotten children.
@@smk1189 Jesus is not God...Jesus has a God.Jesus is the son of God.
Jesus even admits out of his own mouth that he has "a God".
The apostles in their writings use the phrase "the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ" several times.John the apostle writes "these things I write to you that you may believe Jesus Christ is the son of God and by believing you may have life in his name".
Jesus is not God but his Father is.
@@smk1189 yes of course I believe Jesus Christ suffered and died for my sins he is "the lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world".
I believe Jesus Christ was raised from the dead into glory by the Father, and he has ascended into heaven seated at the Father's right hand and is returning to take the throne of his earthly forefather king David and establish the kingdom of God on Earth...the dead in Christ will be raised upon Christ's descent from heaven and we will rule with Christ,and judge the world with Christ(we will even Judge angels as stated by the apostle Paul in scripture).
@@smk1189 don't worry about being blocked by Islam critiqued.
Just pray God will open his eyes to the false doctrine of Trinity.
I used to be a trinitarian for many years...God woke me up to the Trinity deception.
My decent out of trinitarianism didn't happen over night or very easily it does take time and earnestly seeking God to show you the truth.
Trinity doctrine is a doctrine that is pounded in people's heads and it's hard to let go of,and it's hard for the trinitarianism mind to even remotely accept any kind of non-trinitarian theology....but with God all things are possible,God does not want us to be confused about him,his nature,and his "being"
God is "one" person and Jesus Christ is Not that person
Jesus is God's son,he is Lord of heaven and Earth- this authority was given to him by his God and Father (Matthew 28:19).
The risen Christ is the new Adam and the Father's savior for all mankind.
Brother I wish you and CP make a program.
"Christ is Lord, and Islam is false."
Vgood idea bro.
Islam Critiqued in shaallah brother. That’s what they say. But we know there’s no Allah n the time is ambiguous
Beautifully spoken! I admire your highly intellectual mind-)
*LOL* smh
Bot
Great teaching, thanks.
Amen brother!
Good analysis on the faulty logic committed by that individual on the subject.
Thanks....batman. =)
Don't just comment like the videos
Doesn’t this do something with TH-cam analytics? I’ve been hearing TH-cam’ers stress that lately
Thank you very much. May God bless you!
So I guess Emmanuel means 'man with us'. It actually contains the word man. It is so obvious. Removing tongue from cheek.
NEWS FLASH! GOD is "WITH" you and ME also...doesn't. mean
We are...GOD! You see, GOD HimSELF canNOT be SEEN.
Scripture is VERY CLEAR on this point. The Sheer BRIGHTNESS
of HIS Righteous GLORY would literally DESTROY us.
I realize trinitarians do not REALIZE it-- but it borders on
ARROGANCE to think that us TINY, FRAIL, SINFUL creatures
can actually--LITERALLY gaze upon HIS Absolute GLORY;
We canNOT!!
But, HE "Gave" Jesus (Anointed) the Holy Spirit. GOD can DO
This without DIMINISHING one little bit. It does NOT make
Jesus GOD. There IS only One GOD--One Holy Spirit.
These are truths that trinitarians simply have yet to figure
OUT.
Yes, human and deity are in different categories. I also don't have patience for false teachers. Good job on keeping your composure. I would have exploded. You should do more videos like this once in a while.
"Donald Trump, who somehow manages to get his name inserted into every conversation..."
Maybe Trump is omnipresent. Looking at the current state of our culture, it's easy to see why someone might come to that conclusion...😔
Lol I said the same thing. Clearly Donald Trump is everywhere and everything
Good job. He hasn't posted in a while. I've also found most Unitarian objections to the Trinity go away when you show them the Nicene and Cappadocian doctrine of the Father's Monarchia or the teaching that the Father is the one uncaused cause (arche anarchos) and that this is not inconsistent with the Father Son and Spirit having the same nature. Really many of them are either equating the term "God" with a personal name or defining it as uncaused cause. Neither was intended when the ancient church called the Son and Spirit Theos. The were called Theos on account of their nature!
I've had countless unitarians even Jws agree that the Father is the one uncaused cause and that the Son and Spirit have the same nature as the Father. But that's the Trinity! Almost always they agree.
This guy is different he appears to be a soccinian the most extreme variety of Arian.
Thank you for your comment!
Neo-arian maybe, as arians didn't believe Christ was "just" a created being but the first of creation, even created before time as some of them put it. They 100% believed in His pre-existence, at least before anything else was created. They even believed that he was a god, which while not being monotheistic, is at least based the some biblical narratives, even if cherry-picked. So even they respected Him more than these modern unitarians who insist that he was created when Theotokos became pregnant.
@@raygabrelcik2578 And the scripture comes from the same ancient catholic church.
@Christian Man the concept is 'Supernatural ' , indeed God is 'Supernatural '. Just because things of that nature ARE harder to explain does not mean they are not real oh simple minded one
@Christian Man Go out and baptise in the name of....... ?
Say who now? The Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit.
Make 3 separate baptisms? one under each name? No.
WOW @ 'Christians' using the muslim technique of 'show me the verse where God says I am a triune God' whilst ignoring the texts that clearly show that Jesus IS God and the Holy Spirit IS God. Face palm yourselves really hard please.
Yeah they even ignore the verse where Jesus said He and the Father are one, while Jesus also = Holy Spirit
You are awesome...
God bless you bro
Who is this joker whose video you're critiquing? Doesn't seem worth your time.
Unitarian guy
I really admire your patience to watch all these absurd/stupid/self-refuting/goofy arguments and have time and patience to respond.
Well.... and why do you assume Jacob were talking about the ontology (Plato) or a function (Aristotle) (btw Aristotle and Plato had not the opposite views)? Or a Bible in general talking about ontology for that matter? Maybe they were talking outside of greek philosophy paradigm. And we are living in the greek philosophy paradigm and thats why for us its stupid.
So... yeah....
You seem to want to marry two worlds greek and hebrew in a literary and philosophical sense. That is undoable.
At least Kel (and I do not agree with him on many things, saying that its stupid to equivocate God and angel for example). But at least he is aware that he lives in a culture that has more to do with greeks than with hebrew culture.
Hebrew viewed God as acting by the angels and by the humans. And people were calling Gods messengers - God either human or an angel. And btw. Kel knows about it. So you making a huge deal about is deeply insincere. Or..... ignorant.
Hebrews 11:17
By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten [monogenes] son, " Does that mean Isaac was a unique son and Abraham had no more children ? Don't you think it was a foreshadow that God will have lots of children through that ONE, like Abraham ? It is written that we will be LIKE HIM.. HE IS UNIQUE BECAUSE HE WAS BORN OF A VIRGIN, BECAUSE HE NEVER SINNED (have you tried not to ?), AND BECAUSE IF NOT HE THEN WE ALL WILL BE DOOMED WITH NO HOPE AT ALL ! That is why GOD can trust this man Jesus with ALL what GOD HAD MADE WITH HIS HANDS ALONE, and that is why HE MADE JESUS BOTH LORD AND CRIST FOR US..
No.
1:52 yes he is describing a function, because the text describes it this way. “Messenger” is a function and not an ontology. That’s not a refutation.
3:17 Genesis 48:16 what is this for an argument?? 😂
Is the messenger god himself, because Jakob refers to the messenger for the blessing? Again, no refutation, of anything trinity delusion said.
3:56 that’s just not even worth to adress. Incredible.
“Divine essence is described as a messenger”. Clear, with trinity glasses on.
5:07 who is in the bush? Angel or god??
What do we do now?? The only possiblity is trinity….. ridiculous.
I’m so disappointed, to see all the time intelligent people defending trinity, and throwing all their intelligence away with this unbiblical doctrine.
Happy to see someone take this guy apart!
@Shema Echad what r u talking about lol
@Shema Echad u got it man be blessed stay safe!
@Shema Echad I dont argue I may discuss
But how can someone discuss something with an ignorant person
It's a waste of time even responding to you at all have a good day sir!
@Shema Echad lol
@Shema Echad ur right about that I'll be happy to finally meet my creator and God jesus!
Awesome I thought I was the only one trying to prove Kel as an anti Christ. He’s no deferent than JWs with God an a god! But to Kel it’s God and a representative that somehow ends up God or equal to God!
His video on how Jesus became God is silly!
God is numerically one hope before to late he expects Acts2:38
The Father & I are one
J1038 J14:11
Not a group of one!
Beware this wolf twisting the scriptures....
Jude did NOT write that JESUS led God's people out of Egypt. Lets look at it....
Jude 1
4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying THE ONLY LORD GOD, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord(GOD), having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.
You have successfully shown that angels are perfect agents of YHWH. Nothing more.
THE ONE AND ONLY GOD IS JESUS CHRIST'S GOD. John 17:3 John 20:17
Who is the writer of Hebrews who falsely attributed the Psalmist's praise of his god(human king) and his God in Psalms 45?
Isaac was thee ONLY begotten of Abraham, because Ishmael was born to Abram and Hagar, NOT ABRAHAM and Sarah by a miracle.
BTW.... I have no patience for false teachers as well.
11:49 This wolf runs away from Kel's most pressing scriptural evidence. If Jesus is YHWH, than who is Jesus' God? In NO WAY is are Trinitarians Monothiests. IN NO WAY. Their interpretation of John 1:1 illustrates this.
13:45 This false teacher is struggling here.......Trying to tell us that we are not begotten children of God. Are we not called to be the LIGHT of the world? Does not the world see the Father in us? Are we not ONE as the Son and the Father are ONE.....?
Jesus is unique as he is the FIRST and he is the only one begotten of the Spirit. The rest of us children were REBORN by being immersed (baptized) in the breath / Spirit of Elohim.
What does it mean that Jesus is the FIRST FRUITS? The First of many? Why does he call us brothers and sisters?
15:08.... Can this wolf be more obvious to the children of God?..... No sir.... That is NOT what was said..... JESUS does NOT become like the rest of the children of God. We are given the opportunity to be like HIM.
Repent of your lies and step into the light of thee Truth of the words of my Master who only spoke the words of his God and Father.
17:50....Scholars eh? I think this is where you have gone wrong.
Jesus says ALL TRUTH comes from the Spirit of Truth proceeding from his God and Father.
He doesn't say consult the biblical scholars... IN FACT he says the Truth is hidden from them and revealed to babes...
Matthew 11:25
King James Version
25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
18:42....Nah I think I'll just consult the Spirit of Truth. You are quite lost friend.
Whats the connection with monogenes and being born? The word genao?
And if Abraham sent Ishmael with his mother away it was not his son. So Isaak was the only one. Thats excelent paralel.
Jesus was the ONLY one that was not disconnected from the Father.
Great work on debunking his flawed way of thinking and explanation.
LOL you people are deluded, deceived and blind following the blind. *There is no such thing as the Trinity in the Bible* The Bible says that God is ONE. Deut 6:4 One what? Here is the answer John 4:24 God is a Spirit (singular). But since you Babylonian three headed god worshiping heretics will not believe cause you use philosopy to explane away the obvious.
*The Trinity is an old pagan three in one god religion*
th-cam.com/video/zgvmv9MlR_0/w-d-xo.html
The Trinity doctrine came from Babylon adopted by Philo of Alexandria a Jewish Greek Mystic Philospher (Col 2:8) and adored by the so called Church Fathers (Roman Catholic Church) taught by the Catholic Counsels and Creeds, planted in the semminaries and commentaries. And now 99% of Christianity is preaching this popular pagan doctrine. The Trinity is the reason why the RCC has the mother of god heresy. That is God the Son (2nd person, co-equal, co-eternal ect) is born. God is born? See the implications?
th-cam.com/video/EolwY4DqTeM/w-d-xo.html
*ALL* of you heretics are closet Catholics. R.C. Sproul, in his book What is Reformed Theology? “the Reformers embraced the doctrines articulated and formulated by the great ecumenical councils of church history *including the doctrine of the Trinity and of Christ’s person* and work formulated at the councils of Nicea in 325 and Chalcedon in 451.” Ch. 1 pg.28-29
Hardly.
I used to watch the "the trinity delusion "videos years ago, he is a fallen x jehovah witness,one of those x jehovah witnesses who leave the jw fold and cant get over he was Dupe for decades.
but he still defends all the jw lies.
Excellent video but Trinity delusion wins
Read Psalm 102:24-25 in comparison to Hebrews 1:6-10, please. Then you'll know more!
@@duke-swtmate4154 what about them i read them many times and no trinity there!!!
Amen. Trinity Delusion is a winner!
Yahshua is called :" The Angel of the LORD " in the bible. Yahshua is THE SON of Yahweh. Mat. 3: 17. Yahshua walked the earth in His incorruptible flesh and blood body for 3,600 years from day 1 of creation to Malachi. Yahshua spoke to Abraham. Genesis 18. Yahshua spoke To Moses. Acts 7:30. Bless you.
One thing one has to remember: JESUS is the ONLY BEGOTTEN specifically of GOD. In the case of Isaac, he's the only legitimate son of Abraham, the only son through his soul mate.
@NYC125street excellent response!
@@danielanderson2716 except it's not...
www.neverthirsty.org/bible-qa/qa-archives/question/what-does-begotten-mean-in-psalms-27/
@NYC125street the blind leading the blind! Rolls eyes
@NYC125street that Psalms part of you are all gods, the word translated as gods, actually means judges in that psalm's context (Bible ain't the Quran, you cannot just pull a sentence devoided of the surrounding content and pretend to read it right, like when Muslims ask about Jesus saying "my God, why have you forsaken me" in the cross, not realizing he's actually quoting a psalm, and thus the entire psalm must be taken as context to understand what he is actually saying)
@NYC125street Not sure about your exegesis there. And what is all the copy paste job for, to drown me in information not relevant to what I originally stated?
How do we reconcile this passage along with other passages such as Matthew 24:36-“But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone,” with the theology of the Trinity? Moreso, how do we answer objections to his equality to the Father (in divinity) within the LDS community and his actual divinity to groups just as the JWs based on these verses and others like it that appear to seperate the two person’s authority quite drastically.
In John 14:28, Jesus says, “The Father is greater than I.” For many, this statement seems obvious: Jesus is not God. But is this really what our Lord was saying?
In Catholic theology, this text can be understood in two ways. First, being “greater” than another does not have to mean one is essentially different from the other, as when we say a man is essentially distinct from an animal. Greatness can refer to one person functioning in a greater way quantitatively, qualitatively, or even relationally in comparison to another without there being an essential distinction. For example, Matthew 11:11 tells us there has never “risen among [men] a greater than John the Baptist: yet he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.” John is not something other than human because he is said to be greater than certain other people. All human beings share the same nature; therefore, they are absolutely equal in dignity.
Similarly, the Father can be said to be greater than the Son pertaining to their relation within the inner life of God, but not with respect to their shared nature as being fully and equally God. The Father alone is the first principle of life in the Godhead; thus, the Catechism of the Catholic Church can say, in paragraph 246: “Everything that belongs to the Father, except being Father, the Son has also eternally from the Father, from whom he is eternally born . . .” (emphasis added). In this sense, the Father can be said to be greater than the Son relationally, while they are absolutely equal with regard to their essence as God.
Another-and perhaps simpler-way one can legitimately interpret this text is to point out that John 14:28 seems to be emphasizing the humanity of Christ. Thus, because Jesus is fully man, it would be appropriate to say the Father would be greater than the Son. The entire verse reads: “You heard me say to you, ‘I go away, and I will come to you.’ If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I go to the Father; for the Father is greater than I.”
Jesus was emphasizing here and in previous verses his impending death, resurrection, and departure from the apostles. This would apply to his humanity most particularly. Thus, the same Jesus who can say, “I and the Father are one” in John 10:30-as God-can say, “The Father is greater than I” in John 14:28-as man.
WHY DID JESUS HIDE HIS GLORY?
Glorify the Father
Jesus hid his glory when he became a man in order to show his Father’s glory. “No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him” (John 1:18). When Old Testament believers witnessed an appearance of Christ, they were often fearful for their lives. They knew that sinful man could not look upon God and live. The glory of God was also the judgment of God; the natural person who saw it died. When Moses spent forty days alone with God on Mount Sinai, it was necessary to cover his face when he came down because it reflected the glory of God. The people could not look upon God and live.
When John was on the Isle of Patmos, he too had a vision of Christ. When John saw Jesus in the full glory that was his from the beginning, John wrote, “And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead” (Rev. 1:17). When Paul had a similar vision of Christ, he was blinded with light from heaven (Acts 9:3-9). Later he wrote of being “caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter” (2 Cor. 12:4). When Isaiah saw the Lord in the temple, he cried out, “Woe is me…” (Isa. 6:1-8).If Jesus had not veiled his preincarnate glory he could not have accomplished what he came to earth to do. It was necessary for Christ to hide his glory temporarily as he sought to save the souls of men. After the work of atonement was done, he could pray, “And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was” (John 17:5).
Limitations of Humanity
As a result of the incarnation, Jesus became the God-man. He was at all times both God and man as he lived on earth. When Jesus became flesh, he voluntarily subjected himself to its limitations Be. fore his birth, heaven was his throne. Now in the flesh, Jesus was limited to the distance that a man could walk on the paths of Galilee. The Son of God who created water voluntarily lived in a body that got thirsty.
Jesus was born into this world as other humans (Luke 2:120), even though his conception was supernatural. As a child he developed as every human must develop. Jesus grew in mental, physical, spiritual, and social areas of life (Luke 2:52). He had the essential elements of human nature. He was body (Heb. 10:5), soul (John 12:27), and spirit (Mark 2:8). Jesus became hungry when he did not eat (Matt. 4:2). He became tired and asked the woman at the well for water to drink (John 4:6). Throughout his life on earth, Jesus was just as human as any one of us, subject to the same emotional experiences of sorrow, pain, and hurt which any man experiences.The willingness of Jesus to limit himself to becoming a man gives us confidence that he understands the affairs of our lives. “For we have not an high priest who cannot be touched with the feelings of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin” (Heb. 4:15). Because he has experientially known the frustrations of humanity, we have a “God of all comfort” (2 Cor. 1:3) upon whom we can depend. While those who deny his deity believe they are honoring Jesus Christ in calling him a great man, the Bible says he emptied himself voluntarily by accepting the limitations of humanity. Yet at all times he remained God.He surrendered the independent use of some attributes. Self-emptying took place also by the voluntary choice not to use certain of his attributes.
Power of the Holy Spirit
Perhaps the best expression of omnipotence is that of the miracles of God. Even though Jesus was known as a miracle worker, he performed those miracles through the power of the Holy Spirit (Matt. 12:28). He voluntarily laid aside his power to do them and relied on the Holy Spirit or the Father. On various occasions he made it clearly known he was doing the work of his Father.
“Then answered Jesus, and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise” (John 5:19).
During his earthly life and ministry, Jesus was omniscient, but did not know the time of the second coming. He was omnipresent, but when he became flesh, he limited himself to being in one place at one time. He was omnipotent, yet he prayed to God to perform the raising of Lazarus from the dead. Jesus had not lost these attributes of God, but rather, in the process of emptying himself, he chose not to use his relative attributes.
They can’t. Just stop wasting your time. Christianity has been over taken
For unto us A son is born, A child is given. Singular.
*Kafir Linda Clark* You stopped prematurely, Sister; keep reading! This Son is El Gibbor! Have you or I or anyone carried the majestic titles given this Son? Do we have the government of the world on our shoulders? This Gospel of Isaiah refers to one. Only one. Always one. Eternally one.
John 1:12 says, "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name."
None has to "believe" on my name to become sons of God. No one can ever become a son of god by believing on my name. As the OT so thoroughly identifies this coming Savior, I find my name mentioned nowhere, nor is my birth described. I've always existed as an act of God's creation, but I was never a child of God until I was broken by Christ, then became a child of God, this "new creation" spoken of by Paul. Prior to that, I was just a booger-head atheist.
I see our entire Gospel message in Isaiah 9:6. Christ is Christ, without me. But, I'm nothing at all apart from this Christ. He is the vine!
The proper reading is "HAS been given... HAS been born", Past tense, which many fail to acknowledge.
Christ Jesus is the Only Unique Son of God! He's committing the logical fallacy of a faulty appeal of equivocation on the Sonship of Jesus.
I've already answered this. Stop copy/pasting the same comment. I will delete duplicates.
@@smk1189
Yes, the Holy Spirit has the same Nature as the Father and the Son, along with the same Attributes. But, Islam Critiqued seems to have already answered your question.
Why are you asking me?
Great brother...
Your explanations are very educational. Thanks!
You turned his argumentation on its head. Jesus did NOT become like everyone else - these other Christ's of the body of Christ became like him.
So according to him we humans can forgive sins
Could the apostles forgive sins?
Why then are we TOLD to forgive sins?? Jesus says the Father has given men power to forgive sins.
@@anahata3478 But, according to Acts10:38,40, 42; Who
GAVE Jesus the "Holy Spirit?" And if Christ is GOD--LITERALLY--
In and OF himSELF, then, WHY--Why does Scripture TELL us that it was
GOD the FATHER who "Gave" Jesus "ALL POWER and AUTHORITY?"
THAT was NOT a FLIPPANT-- NON-SEQUITOR talking point-- it is
Absolutely LEGIT!! I have even heard trinitarian Scholars ADMIT
it is a very GOOD point!
And Jesus ALSO makes it QUITE CLEAR himSELF that it's the
FATHER that is "ALL IN ALL." 1 Cor.15:28. AND, Jesus says,
"I only do what...my FATHER is doing." And, I only do the
WILL of MY FATHER," and, "I only Speak the Words MY
FATHER GIVES me," and, "...the FATHER is GREATER than
I."
So please EXPLAIN to me--HOW does THIS define Christ as
GOD? I am acutely aware of ALL the verses you use--but
in the ORIGINAL Greek and Hebrew, they do. NOT read
the way trinitarians USE them. Trinitarian SCRIBES ADDED
Punctuation hundreds of years ago. Well, the ORIGINAL
texts didn't HAVE punctuation.
The Words, Trinity, Triune, Tri-Unity, 1ST Person, 2ND Person, 3RD
Person, GOD the Son, Co-Equal, Co-Eternal, Godhead, One Sub-
Stance," etc., ALL originated from the Ancient Roman Catholic
Church. The doctrine itSELF, therefore, came OUT OF the
Catholic church. The belief in "MULTI-HEADED" gods has
It's origin in Ancient Greek Mythology.
This doctrine wasn't even KNOWN, or HEARD of until the
LATE. 2ND Century. It was then EXPOUNDED on during the
Following 4--5 Centuries.
Go ahead--take a DEEP, humble LOOK into the history of this
Pagan doctrine. It started so EARLY, that Scribes began alter-
ing the Original Scriptures to GIVE them a triniTARian slant.
You can look THAT up as well; you will DISCOVER that quite
a NUMBER of verses WERE, in fact, ALTERED. And to PROVE
That--just do an INDEPTH STUDY. You will ALSO discover
that Most ALL of thoses ERRORS have been FIXED!
THAT PROVES that they WERE "CorrUPted."
But, you no doubt think I'm full of Camel dung.
Well, do your HOMEwork. You will SEE!!
Happy Hunting. Stay HEALTHY, and--GOD bless.
@@raygsbrelcik5578 "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."
No scribes altered that scripture. We know this because of the Dead Sea Scrolls.
@Shema Echad Putting aside your willful misunderstanding of one being in three persons as polytheistic; you choose to believe that the "child" born to us is referring to an adult king..... that the words Everlasting Father are solely applied to a man granted 15 more years, and who's son would wipe out his reforms and lead Judah back into polytheism. That interpretation makes those holy names a joke, and a bad one at that.
Another thing the youtuber denying the TRINITY gets wrong is that Pharisees were evil and heretical. JESUS told HIS own disciples that until HE replaced the old covenant with the new with HIS death and resurrection, the religion of the Pharisees was the only true religion that even they must keep. He called the Pharisees the children of light and the sadducees the children of darkness. Paul, as a Christian, preferred the Pharisees to the sadducees. JESUS only said certain Pharisees were failing to practice the orthodox truth they inherited.
Seeing JESUS' miracles destroyed the unbelief of sadducees in a number of things. They previously believed in very little. Seeing JESUS work with divine power, they had to say that either HE was GOD or that there was a literal Satan.
In the split between Jews over JESUS, mainly Pharisaic elements prevailed, but with the absorption of a thing or two from the sadducees eventually showing up in the way of thinking Satan symbolic and perhaps in nonTrinitarian ideas.
Jews heard the Christians speak of the TRINITY and merely seemed till a century later to say that their whole debate was over whether or not JESUS was ONE of the TRINITY.
Many old expectations about the MESSIAH were divine, thus passages where it was simply declared that the MESSIAH was involved brought with it a whole chain of logic implying that the same was the SON OF GOD, and this in turn GOD HIMSELF.
Our prophet Jesus refuted the trinity by himself when he said : The father is ONLY true God. John :17:3.
Ali Hassan You are proof-texting Hassan. Look at the whole narrative. Jesus said in the same chapter, “And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.” Do you also believe the Prophet Jesus shared in God’s glory before the existence of the world?
Well in the same chapter also he said: I have given them the glory You gave Me, so that they may be one as with us. Same glory given to Jesus also Jesus passed to his disciples and share it all together. If this prove for Jesus divinity then we should be fair to include the disciples as divine as Jesus.
Hassan, I'm very glad you're reading more of the text. It's important to understand the entire picture. However, I would simply repeat my question- do you believe Jesus shared in the divine glory prior to the creation of the world?
Yes I believe that Jesus was in God plans before creation of the world.
that's not what the verse says, Ali. And you know it. Do you believe the verse I cited above or not?
5:34 Jude 5 “it was Jesus” really???
Do a research as you do with Islam. Incredible.
Now this is epic.
@Shema Echad Prove to me that Christians ever considered themselves polytheistic. You can't. Because it never was.
@Shema Echad Prove it.
@Shema Echad Those are THREE persons in ONE God, my friend. NOT three gods. They are ONE God. I said prove to me where Christians have worshipped multiple gods.
@Shema Echad It's not semantics, my friend. Obviously the distinction between polytheism and monotheism is not semantics, I think you would agree. Yes, each person is fully God, as in, fully the ONE God, not fully a god, but fully the ONE God.
@Shema Echad Good thing that isn't my argument or the argument of any learned Christian ever. If you took your blinders off you might learn something.
Bro stick Islam to Islam critiquing , I agree about 30 percent with you but about 90 percent with bro kel maybe by next year will agree a little better , keep up the good effort , Sam
The Christians do their best to avoid discussing the trinity in great detail because it is known that it just does not hold weight. Its neither textually found, nor logically sound. And it's a serious deal breaker for many people. The idea that God Almighty is somehow a man and subject to all of the frailties of the human self is beyond reprehensible to any undoctrinated sound mind
You're saying that on a channel of a guy who talks about the Trinity in detail. Stop hiding behind your general, vague comments. Bring your arguments to me and I will rip them to shreds.
Islam Critiqued you should bring your argument to supporting the Trinity. Don't run away from it
I defend it in this video. And I lay out my view in detail here: th-cam.com/video/ObtYkLHu_CM/w-d-xo.html
This is your typical routine. You ignore material I present, and then accuse me of not presenting the material. Further, you have not refuted a single argument I've made on my channel. It gets tiring *samer* . Step it up. Give me a substantial objection
Islam Critiqued I'm sorry who that guy you are talking about? I don't understand your point. I will watch the link you just sent.
samer dodi my point is I give evidence of my views and defend them. Meanwhile you ignore that and accuse me of NOT giving evidence for my views.
If there is a committee with Donald Trump in it and after the committee has made a decision, Mr Trump speaks for the whole committee, he is still the spokesperson or messenger of the committee.
When Jesus speaks on behalf of the Godhead it doesn't mean that He is not Himself a part of the Godhead.
Jesus has a God last time I checked. Stephen seen Jesus where? On the right of God. If it has a beginning it ain’t God.... Born , formed means created last time I checked.😇. A name was given, not God was given. Mathew means Holy one of God, is Mathew God. Jesus is my Christian brother, not my Father. Jesus is not the Father in the Trinity triangle. God made him Lord and Savior. God can’t die. God is a spirit not a person. God in 3 persons, which is more like this, the father, God, the Holy Spirit, and Jesus in 4 persons. First born, true witness is who? Jesus. Please read your Bible again, and again . Maybe you might act more like the Jew Jesus who said love God with all your heart. WOW
I think if you knew the New Testament better you would have quoted John 20:17 instead of Stephen's account in Acts. That would have demonstrated your point much better.
"If it had a beginning it ain't God" >This statement is complete non-sequitur from what you said before. There is no connection between God's right hand and being created or not.
The rest of your comment is incoherent. Please watch my video here before engaging further: th-cam.com/video/ObtYkLHu_CM/w-d-xo.html
Also the content on this channel is text based, not opinion. So please cite specific texts relevant to your point. Thanks for your comment.
As MAN, as an example to men, HE shows respect for the EQUAL HE has as GOD, by having HIM for a GOD as MAN.
Islam Critiqued I realize most people do not have a “black belt in Bible”. Trinity folks think Jesus is God. Jesus never claimed to be his God. It’s easy to twist verses to claim a godman. Verse dropping from letters and accounts showing the truth doesn’t bring any trinitarian closer to the truth. King James is a trinitarian translation of Gods words. I’m a Biblical historian, researcher, and a believer in the “son of God”. People should dig for the truth. The Bible says God is not a man. Why give a verse? Folks should go find it for them selfs. Mathew’s name means Holy one of God. I’am means what? Gods name or not? Lost is lost. The sheep hear his voice. Need chapter, page, verse in order to understand the point that is being made? Who sits to the left of God?? Is he God also? Want a verse how’s about 1 john 5:7, or the last 12 of Mathew. 😇
Who would win in a basketball game against each other God or Jesus? They are co equal, remember 😁
@@michaelbruce9197
Sports are only for imperfect athletes trying to measure progress against one another.
Jesus as always been with God from the eternity passed.Jesus is God clothed in fleshy nature.the fear of God is the beginning of Wisdom.
And I don't mean to attack you, or anything, it's just that I didn't grasp this particular argument & was hoping you'd clarify. To me, the argument for Christ's divinity (and, thus, the Trinity) is pretty simple: the Resurrection. It's hard to explain the Resurrection w/o the Trinity - I mean why would God bother with this guy if He's not Him? The other argument, of course, is that Revelations is pretty hard to explain w/o the Trinity. We're waiting for the 2nd Coming of some random dude? That is, I think the problem with non-Trinitarian arguments is that you pretty much have to pick & choose the parts of the Bible you "like," which is why Muslims have to claim the Bible has been altered to explain how the Bible support Tawhid. In other words, it's clear the Bible as a whole argues for the Trinity; thus, non-Trinitarians either pick & choose or claim the Bible's been altered; they can't explain the WHOLE Bible, so they don't even try. To put it another way, if the Bible culminates in the story of some random dude, then it's pointless. If, however, you try to give meaning to the whole text, then it's pretty clear that it's building towards the SON - that Jesus is the point of the narrative. In that sense, it's a bit like the argument for Jesus: if He's not the Messiah, then who is (given that the Messiah had to come before the Temple was destroyed)? Likewise, if Jesus is not the point of the Bible, if He's not the Son of God, then it's a pretty weird & useless text.
See his angelfire site regarding Mark 2:7 - Who can forgive sins but God alone?
Comment 500 😁🥳🥳🥳
It was a true Angel of the Lord it says and Daniel 3:28 Angel is a messenger
Oh my oh my this is so easy to debunk it doesnt SAY JESUS in the manuscripts lol of JUDE 1:5 ..some do some done. THe original text is 99% on THE LORD not JESUS because JESUS didnt the word LORD is the Original reading
Check my channel to make your comment hasn't already been thoroughly addressed before posting: th-cam.com/video/JQ0llhZ0cho/w-d-xo.html
He isn’t saved. You can’t deny Jesus is God and teach against it and still be saved.
This guys lack of patience shows who the false teacher truly is.
Can you show me a verse from Bible hwo speak about wrath of God is upon those hwo don’t believe in Nicean trinity? Because that’s what you trinitarins do , demonize all those hwo don’t believe in your doctrine!
Go Donald go 😂🤣😂 that was funny. Thank you for this video I love your work and I've learnt a lot
Everything about that man cringes me. He has diva tendencies lol
seems to me that saying god=angel is ridiculous. An angel is depicted as a wholly devout, but separate entity from god, unless of course the angel rebels and becomes the naughty satan. Or, is satan god too? If so, then that would actually make some sort of sense, given that your god drowned puppies and pregnant women en masse.
Your comment doesn’t mean anything until you describe what Hebrew words you’re referring to.
Would you call Donald Trump Donald Trump's messenger? Why do these people always end up arguing against modalism? It's not that hard! Jesus is not his Father. He can be the messenger of his Father who is called ho theos! Doesn't mean he is not of one nature with His Father!
If I am delivering my message to you I would indeed be my own messenger as I am speaking on my own behalf
Nope the Angel is the burning Bush ... YEHOVAH calls out from it... if I call out from my HOUSE am I my house??? please don't say Yes because I've already been called a Pen.
Your lack of attention to the passage is rivaled by your careless, straw man analogy.
@@IslamCritiqued strawman it's the exact logic you use... repent sir
1 John 5:7-8 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the father , the word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one .
8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit,and the water, and the blood : and these three agree in one .
Are we not made in the image of God?? 1 John 5:7-8 says it here ! The Holy Trinity. 😁🙏
debby antoine, NO YOU were not made in the image of Gd, you were from the stock of Adam, a fallen being. This is why Masiach said “ you must be born again”
Also you may want to do some serious research on 1 John 5:7-8, not everything in the Bible is as it should be.
Peace
mate your flawed THE LORDS NAME IS IN THE GENTILES are they God lol Acts 15:17 THE GENTILES BEAR HIS NAME ... SO THEY MUST BE GOD... 3:31
You are beyond obnoxious.
@@IslamCritiqued is that how yeshua taught you to act with people.. adhom hey avoid many trinitarians do you call out brother Kelly I offer you a debate you name call lol
YAH
YAHweh
YAHshua
Prov. 30: 4 YAHweh ... YAHshua.
good! go on
The trinity can be explained as below,
Infinity (π°) cannot be numerically put on pages, so we use the reverse of infinity to understand the essence of God, the reverse of infinity is zero ,
Zero cannot be created
Zero cannot be destroyed
Zero has no beginning
Zero has no end
Zero can only be divided by itself and yet remain zero
Zero can be multiplied by itself and remain zero
Therefore we can safely use this number symbolically to represent God
Zero is the number of God ( π=0)
Three times Zero is Zero ( 0×0×0=o)
Zero divided by zero ( (0÷0=0)
Zero added by infinite Zeros is still Zero 0+(0^π) =0
So we can easily explain the Trinity or any other infinite theorem using Zero.
Well... People were amazed that a man can forgive sins... so its not incoherent that Pharisees thought that a man cant.... if that was a common knowledge (people were amazed and shocked so they thought otherwise based on what people believed - common knowledge)
I hope the trinity delusion is watching .
Oh yes. I agree with the Trinity Delusion and the so- called refutations by @Islam are pretty weak and dishonest.
The trinity is a strong delusion. How do you mess up "there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus" 1 Timothy 2:5
Learn something: www.amazon.com/Divine-Christ-Scriptures-Studies-Theology/dp/080109786X
That book is a systematized presentation of Paul's use of YHWH texts. "typical send somebody to the Amazon instead of the Bible" ignorant comment.
@@IslamCritiqued "I am Yahoveh, and there is none else, there is no Elohim beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:" Isaiah 45:5 NOT YESHUA NOT THE HOLY SPIRIT "I AM YAHOVEH"
@Anastasia Monroe they really bend over backwards for their Idol. But I guess I was the same when I was a trinitarian. I discovered in the Bible was truth and went out to try to save the Muslims, atheists and agnostics. People need to realize the Bible was written in Hebrew by Hebrew and for Hebrews that understood the nuances of the Hebrew language we can't interpret through a Greek lens.
@@IslamCritiqued I understand the drive to be fruitful these are our potential brothers and sisters after all and we have to love them but we really need to understand who our Elohim is. Before ever picking up a Bible we are indoctrinated with this idea of the trinity. The line has certainly been blurred because the name of the most high has been systematically stripped out and replaced with the Lord.
Barth Ehrman already published such a papers with that arameic expression of a man. OMG. Not only him but he did. For sure. Btw that is the the apeal to the authority fallacy.
His videos are a joke are they? I'm willing to bet that you are fully Trinitarian. Am I right? Yeah, that'd be right
Your powers of perception are stunning. You must have read the video title.
Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit my friend
Btw, the title of the video does automatically mean that you’re a Trinitarian. I guessed that from your attacks on Kel and your general smart arse manner seconds into it
"Frairy dust" plural yes, Jesus had it ( Holy Spirit ) now it's springle on man ( plural ) John 20:20 - 23 . Your not showing enough of the video. If you judge a stone, make sure you see the other side...
At 3:11 is the moment I lost respect for you “islam critiqued” .... the trinity delusion got that one ....you put words in his mouth that trinity delusion did not say
Unfortunately the word Jesus has been added into the Holy Bible where is once said Lord. No doubt the writers held a trinitarian view and therefore did not see any conflict in altering the word of God.
How could Christ be God? He is the offering for sin. He was tempted by Satan...do you honestly think God could be tempted? When Christ says "my doctrine is not mine but his who sent me" Who sent him, he tells us...."The Father sent me" When does Christ come back? Christ does NOT know does he, what does he say? YOU KNOW! Christ is the Son of our Father. The Messiah, I can truly say, it is interesting that you deny Christ....When I pray, I pray to our Father, I ask for forgiveness in the NAME OF OUR MESSIAH, CHRIST! Lets look at Jude 1:5 KJV I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not......Where does Jude say Jesus? Now lets look at Deuteronomy 18:15 KJV The Lord thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken....NOTE: Lord used in both and we KNOW the latter is GOD our Father talking about our SAVIOUR Jesus Christ. You are incredibly WRONG!!! YOU ARE THE ONE THAT IS A FALSE TEACHER!
@Smidlee Or READ THE BIBLE!!!!!!! That is what I do!
@Smidlee Not only is the whole book about his, the very first line....In the Beginning is about HIM! But, my friend...Christ is not the Father! He is the Lamb, the Offering...Redeemer! Only through him can we be saved. Although, if you do not follow in his ways...and say, I believe yet did not walk in his ways....you will have a problem.
@Smidlee Who sent Christ? He tells us...Go look! Who did Christ pray to? Who raised Christ from the grave? Can God die? Where is God? Christ tells us! I do not deny Christ....He tells us "He (the Father) sent me" He prayed to God (Mark 14:36 kjv) "Remove this cup, not my will but thy be done" and God sent an Angel to comfort Christ that night before they took him. On the Cross he (Mark 15:34 kjv) And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? I believe in the Lamb of God who sets on the Right Side.
@Smidlee You are brainwashed....can Satan tempt God? 2 Corinthians 4:14 Knowing that he which raised up the LORD Jesus shall raise up us also by Jesus, and shall present us with you. NOT ONE BUT TWO!!! Paul CLEARLY POINTS OUT TWO! JUST AS Romans 10:9 but you deny it, you do not want to see it.....1 Corinthians 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one LORD Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. OPEN YOUR EYES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@Smidlee I am not telling you anything new....it is all there and it is up to you to seek the truth! There is nothing new under the sun!
This response is a joke.
Hmm I think this calls for a Jewish understanding of this , isn’t there other angels like the angel Michael etc then there is a verse in job where the angels are called sons of God, so are you saying Yahweh is the angels , but doesn’t he speak them into being when he wants ... how can Yahweh be the creator the Father and create his sons yet also be them .... you can’t be your own creation ... this is what I heard from a rabbi ...
You're confusing the term "angel" with ontology. It's not an ontological term.
Islam Critiqued wait so do you mean that in terms of the word “angel” in its entirety usage ? That’s my question how do you know when it’s a being , like the angel Gabriel etc
Islam Critiqued or are you saying that it’s never a being because when the they speak and appear they seem to speak on behalf of YHWH
Angel is a functional description. Though certain figures who fit this description are singled out.
I would love to see him debate James white.
That would be the best 5 minute debate ever...
Harrison Brincku I'm not so sure. I have watched a number of the Trinity Delusions videos and although he might be repetitive and drag his points out he is quite knowledgable. I watched a video of a debate White had with a JW back in 2003 and although he has written a number of books on JWs and the trinity, I have never seen White so rattled.
The JW even corrected Whites Greek in Rev chapters 4 and 5.
Not that the Trinity Delusion is a JW.
TheCaledonianBoy Right the problem with solo Scriptura is people Dont find the knowledge of the Trinity sufficient in scripture because they read into the Bible but if we take sola - Scriptura instead of solo and look at early church fathers who knew the apostles themselves and had a relationship with the apostles we find they all affirmed the Trinity.
TheCaledonianBoy That is why the creed that even gave them there bibles in the first place comes from the Christian worldview and not there god. Jesus is called God many times but JW Organization calls Jesus little god of “a god” but not big God First created thing yet this would contradict there theory since Isaiah 43:10 says there’s no other god created before or after. Also there worldview is in shambles since now they have two gods and not even the Holy Spirit so highly looked upon by early church fathers & scripture as a persona.
@@HarrisonB72 I do not feel there is sufficient evidence to support that the writings attributed to the Church Fathers were due to a personal relationship with the Apostles and other 1st century Christians.
Who is the speaker at Isa 43:10? The Father, the Son or the Holy Spirit?
Consider the viewpoint of the JWs as regards who the "one God" is (Deut 6:4.)
That is what we are repeatedly told in scripture God is one. I do not think any writings by the Church Fathers contradict this, as it is well accepted by trinitarians and non-trinitarians.
At 1 Cor 8:6, Paul said "one God, the Father,
from whom all things are and for whom we exist,
and one Lord, Jesus Christ,
through whom all things are and through whom we exist." NAB
Is there another way to interpret Paul teaching that for Christians the "one God" is the Father? All Bible versions agree this is what Paul said. If some teacher or Church Father said that this is not really what Paul meant then they would need to have a very good reason.
Or when Jesus is praying to his Father at John 17:3 he said: "Now this is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ."
How is it then possible to read this any other way? If our Lord said that the Father is the only true God, then He must be.
I thank my Father God Jehovah/Yahweh for opening my eyes and ears to His Sacred Word. I can now see and hear clearly that He is our One and Only God and there is no other. He is the Almighty and Powerful God who is the Most High of the Universe. PSALM 83:18. His Son Jesus Christ is our Messiah, our Saviour, the replacement of the first perfect man, Adam that we lost to sin. He is our King of Kings and Son of the True Living God. Jesus is not God. He did not come to belittle our God in 3 pieces but to reveal Him to us. Jesus never said He was God because His God is our God whom He glorified with obedience. Some people accept the teachings of Jesus, others distort them because they are blinded by Satan is the only reason they cannot see the Truth.
Humbleness and many prayers to those who cannot see the Light that Jesus came to give us.
Wow, ive encountered Unitarians that believe Jesus
IS the Father.......but ive never encountered this before.
You systematically dismantled everything he said/did.
Even his his stupid facial expressions got rebuked.
Good video. Great breakdown of a horrible doctrine.
Godbless.
When will he get to the word "son" as there is two words being used: one are teknon which is used of believers. And huios in the case of Christ.
5:33 Jesus said he did not come to destroy the law, so the Old Testament is still as revelant, only God forgives that is still true, but the same way God annointed kings and Judges over Israel , God annoints his authority, look at 1 chronicles 28-5 king Solomon anointed as son of God.
God annointed Jesus to to be king and judge, God is still above Jesus , “my God and your God” “the son can do nothing of himself “
The Law is to be interpreted through Jesus, Matthew 5:17-18.
I saw no temple in it, because the Lord God Almighty and the lamb are its temple. So Folks it not just a question of his name being in Jesus but that Jesus is the actual temple itself just as the Father is. The Temple in Heaven which is the real thing is YHWH and the bible tells us that the lamb and the father are the temple, therefore you don't need a degree in rocket science to conclude YHWH is complex in his unity.
Thank you so much for recommending that doctoral dissertation! This also gives me great hope that your eschatological understanding is on the right track! We live in a time of.....confusion? Foolishness? Anyway, thank you sir.
We can dislike the Pharisees as much as we want but they were experts of the scripture. So why would they make something up like "only God can forgive sins"... Well what was the temple for? Why was there a high priest doing sacrifices? ......
This guy annoys me and clearly twists anything he can for his view and liking. From apparent mistranslations to just being flat out wrong about a bit of scripture. Very great video and very straight to the point 👍
And he’ll take like 10 minutes of straight time wasting just to make 1 point that can be refuted in 10 seconds. That’s why watching his videos is like watching paint dry. No joke I would literally rather watch paint dry than have to endure 1 whole 20 minute video.