It's worth mentioning that you can pin mod the Taulatin to make it work with most motherboards, just remove three pins and bridge two wires :) works well with Via 133 Apollo boards for instance
I bought one of the modified III-s Tualatins from South Korea. Though my Slot 1 motherboard supports 133Mhz FSB and runs just fine at 1200Mhz (133x9) on my VIA C3 it will not run the Tualatin at 133 FSB. This is using an MS-6905 slotket for both. Just something to keep in mind.
LOL I can remember doing that back in the day with a 1.2Ghz Celly Tualatin on an Abit SE6 Rev 2 and then overclocking it to 1.6Ghz for the rest of it's life. I can remember these Tualatins were outperforming the first P4's at that time in games.
I still have a few of the Pentium 3s and the Celeron variant. I found delidding them a good way to get them to work with old school heat sinks. I remember bringing my dual P3 to Lan parties back in the day and getting all excited.
Impressive results...I didn't expect such a big performance boost comparing it to the 1000EB coppermine! It would be very interesting to see performance against early P4 cpu's also.
As far as I can remember the PIII-S absolutely destroys the early P4 CPU's in many many benchmarks and tasks. Especially ones that weren't memory sensitive. Not 100% sure about this but I believe the Pentium III-S was more tuned for application in mobile systems in a time when the 'Banias' Pentium M's weren't quite ready for market and the Pentium 4 hadn't a good mobile counterpart yet. (If there were any good Pentium 4 M's, those were always a joke.) About the Pentium M, it was heavily based on the PIII architecture and included the good elements of the P4. A really streamlined CPU.
I was given a laptop with a Pentium M 755 (2.0 GHz). The Machine felt highly streamlined: fast boot time, with applications feeling very responsive. Amazed how well the architecture performs even to the point of competing well with AMD's Athlon 64 depending on the workload. Some nostalgia if anyone's interested: www.anandtech.com/show/1399
The Intel Pentium III-S at 1.4Ghz and with the 512KB cache will really put some hurting on even the 2.0Ghz P4s despite lacking SSE2 in those early days no different from how AMD's 1.4Ghz Athlon was also able to do the same... You can see why Intel made a particular chipset requirement which meant locking out the PIII motherboards from Intel that had RDRAM which would have further exposed something weak about the P4s which was actually exposed by the mainstream PC media when they used the Intel Pentium-M (essentially a hidden PIII architecture) meant for mobile solutions as a desktop CPU... Not saying that Netburst and P4s were bad but the story was that P4s were supposed to get faster when they hit higher clock speeds beyond 3.2Ghz and arguably even the 3.7Ghz which were P4s that were also locked out of running on Dual Channel RDRAM motherboard set ups... because RDRAM did have higher performance the higher the CPU clocks and smaller die shrinks allowed.
Especially with some of the early P4 era Celerons as well. I used to have a 2.4GHz Celeron which I overclocked right up to 3Ghz pretty stable and 3.2Ghz with some issues. Used to game on it back in the 2000s.
A 1400 Tualatin with full 512k cache is around a 1.7-2.0 GHz Pentium 4 depending on the test. The P4 with RDRAM will got alot of bandwith with it, but the long pipeline lows it down alot (except for stuff that can keep it filled, like video rendering) Beating even 2.4-2.6 GHz Celerons in some situations. With oc to 1575 MHz (150 FSB, easy to reach on good boards) and we are talking serious buissness.
Even when the code had been optimized for the P4, the Tualatin, Coppermine and AMD's Thunderbird and Thoroughbred beat the P4 quite well. You really had to set it up right for the P4 to win. Video editing was pretty much never benchmarked before the P4, as it was one of it's strong points. Until the P4 hit 3GHz it just wasn't worth it. The AMD chips were faster and burned less power, the older Intel chips were essentially killed off early so the P4 could keep going. Intel doctored the Tualatin core and created the Pentium M, later the Core Solo, Core Duo and Core 2 Duo, eventually leading to Nehalim and the Core ix line. The big reason we have the Core lineup now is that the P4 wasn't a good fit for the mobile world. Intel also realized near the end of the P4's life that the next generation of the P4's heat production and power requirements would be ridiculous. It sounds like they had 5GHz P4, maybe even dual core prototypes, but power consumption was obscene compared to the performance they were getting out of the Core Solo.
I'll see what I can dig up. I owned all of the processors I mentioned above and then some. It is rather hard to find benchmarks from 17 years ago though. The video editing thing was hoot. FlaskMPEG was recompiled with an Intel optimized compiler and it improved AMD's performance more than the Pentium 4. Still have a copy of both versions of that program on file here.
AMD vs early Pentium 4 Willamette. I was wrong on the clock speeds, it was the Northwood core that really started to cook, closer to 2.4GHz. Still looking for Tualatin benches. The Tualatin held it's own against the Athlon clock for clock. The Athlon, of course, kept going. www.anandtech.com/show/818/7
I used a tualatin p3s 1400 with a cuv4x mobo until my phenom II upgrade in 2010! This processor was incredibly ahead of its time. Paired with newer gpus like a geforce FX you could walk distances with it.
There is one other option. There is an adapter to allow Tualatins to fit in slightly older sockets. You will need to mod your cooler because you are adding the thickness of another socket and you'll want the heatsink to clip on the socket on the motherboard. Once a relative finds a Dell PC I built for them around that time, I can show you. I had to get such an adapter to put the 1.4GHz Tualatin in it. It has a Voodoo card in it too so I hope they find it someday. It should be in their basement somewhere. Awesome video! Of course, follow it up with a comparison to the first gen P4 and/or Athlon.
no...it doesn't. I have both the PIII S 1.4ghz and a 1.4ghz P4. Difference comes down to ram speed. P4 uses RAMBUS, makes about 10% difference in favor of the P4. And, I made sure to use the same winxp pro os, 1gb of ram, and same GeForce 3 (vanilla) cards, both use SB Live! and IDE HDDs by Seagate with 80gb storage. So minus the chipsets, and cpus and ram, that's as identical as they get without expensive crossover boards for the ram/chipset
I was about to say the same. Phil, I'd love to see a part 2 of this video comparing the Tualatin 1.4 against the Athlon Thunderbird 1.4, an early Athlon XP and some Willamette Pentium 4's.
ah yes .. the holy grail of my old company :-D when i started there, we all had 1.4GHz P3 Dell desktops ... then, some of us were getting the P4 2GHz+ machines (dont remember the speed, but was with HT)... after a while we noticed a huge performance impact on the P4s ... so we had some official statement from company "X" that their app runs best on P3 with the short pipeline ... so all good at the end and we could keep our P3s..
I have a 933 Mhz Coppermine with a Tualatin compatible board. There was a listing for one on ebay for 10€, but I missed it... damn, I really should have gotten it. Thx for the video!
Damn, the more i watch your videos, the more i lust for a high end PC from my late childhood. I already have a 5820k/32gb/GTX970 for recent stuff and Q9550/4gb/GTX650 for XP stuff...maybe some day they'll be accompanied by a PIII-S 1.4/512mb/Ti4600 98SE PC.
:\ i don't have any pentiu... oh wait, i still have my pentium 2 i think. 400mhz. used to run it at 533mhz, even ran it at 600mhz for a good 6 months. aside from that, it's all athlons for me. except for that one pentium 4 3ghz HT that i bought recently. and for my 2009 laptop, which is a pentium dual-core. but that doesn't count since it's just a gimped core2duo, not a real pentium.
Interesting, you bought it before it was actually available, that's nice, tell us more. First generation of PIII - Katmai, was launched in 1999. Tualatin was launched in mid 2001, and the 1400 model was launched only in 2002, yet, somehow, you bought it in late 90s...
I have a bit of a soft spot for the III-S. In early 2002, I was looking to upgrade from a P2-233. The P4 2.2 had just been released, and I think AMD had the 2000+ Athlon XP at the time. Both great processors, but I just had to build something a little less mainstream, so I chose the PIII-S. I overclocked mine to 1575MHz and paired it with 1GB of memory, a 160GB HDD, and an Audigy sound card. Playing host was a mainboard based on the Apollo Pro 266T chipset. Well over budget, I had to cheap out on the video card, so I used an MX440 for a year. Then in 2003, I went all out and sprang for the Radeon 9800 Pro. Man, that PIII-S was my main system until late 2005!
Something I wanted to look into, but ran out of time. The Pentium III-S is more a workstation type CPU? Like a Xeon these days? Because I believe most PCs for the general public, they went straight from a 1 GHz Pentium III to a Pentium 4. Like Aldi for example, I like using them as a time period reference.
Yeah, the "S" processors were intended for server use. The standard desktop Tualatin only had 256K of cache and wasn't much faster than the Coppermine EB, clock-for-clock. The cache latency on the desktop version was also a bit higher, similar to a Coppermine. Interestingly, the mobile Tualatin had the full 512K, and laptops based on them were real screamers! I wonder why Intel only chose to handicap the desktop processors.
Probably because the release of the Pentium 4 was close and pretty much a failure. Especially the earlier Socket 423 ones with 256kb L2 and not much higher clock than the Tualatin.
Oh man...so glad I bought this setup (mobo/cpu) back in the day. Got the CPU for $10 USD and the mobo for $40. Mobo I ended up with was a DFI board CT64 I think. 2006 was a good year to buy older stuff. Been working on my own benchmarking stuff, but after Phil mentioned the ram deal, finding board that support DDR for the AMD and P4 and PIII systems can be a challenge.
Very close on the pronunciation of Tualatin there. A lot better than most other channels. These architectures are difficult to pronounce from just reading them, so here’s a handy guide: Tualatin: “two all a tin” Deschutes: “duh-shoots” Willamette: “Will am it” They’re named after locations in Oregon, US.
I have a Tyan dual socket 370 motherboard with two 1.4 ghz, it is rocksolid. It also has 4 x 512mb pc133 sd-ram installed! Also have a Gigabyte dual 370 motherboard with dual 1.26 ghz. One thing I love with the Tyan motherboard, with the latest bios update it supports IDE-harddrives larger than 120gb. All way up the last IDE drive, 750gb. I don't remember the model numbers, but I love dual cpu systems.
The Tyan mother is a Tyan S2507T (Tiger 230T) It uses the VIA Apollo Pro133T chipset. And the Gigabyte motherboard is a GA-6VTXD and it uses the same kind of chipset too.
LellePrinter82 that tyan system was THE shit back then. i had a 1ghz thunderbird at the time and always dreamed of a tyan dual cpu board. You have a real cool piece of PC history there, i think.
I'm jealous. That sounds like an awesome system to play with. I wonder how it compares to a low end core duo laptop? The Yonah based T2050 @ 1.6ghz must be pretty close?
And the best is, I found the Tyan motherboard years ago in an old pc case from the dumpster. I would've loved to own a Dual Pentium Pro system too. Right now I have a single Pentium Pro 200mhz System, with 128mb of edo ram.
There's a guy on eBay that sells these that has them mounted to a PCB that makes them compatible with more motherboards. I bought two for my Asus dual Pentium 3 motherboard and they worked right out of the box, though they don't show up in the Bios as the right processor but they work great. I'm now running Windows XP great with dual Tualatin. That machine is a beast.
I do have a powerleap for a tualatin celeron. But no this is what i got on ebay. www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-Tualatin-Pentium-IIIs-1-4GHz-512K-include-On-chip-Socket-Adapter/281238323137. It's a PCB mounted under the cpu that makes the cpu like 1mm thicker. Basically it mods the pins to make it work in older socket 370 motherboards.
i have an asus CUV4X-DLS which is like the CUV4X-D, just with SCSI (i think)... sadly only with 2x 1 ghz coppermine at the moment but i will upgrade to 1.4 tualatins in the future
Another great video Phil! I think that I would get an Athlon 64 or a core2duo, since the Tualatin motherboards lack ISA slots. I am stuck with coppermine for the time being, but it's great to see this CPU tested here!
I had a p3 Tualatin with a Radeon 9550.I remember being able to oc like 75 MHz out of it because I was using a mobo not able to lock the PCI /agp bus frequency so things got unstable pretty fast. This thing was extremely fast, it wasn't an a64 but it worked very well, the CPU so fast that it outperformed every atom setup up until the Pineview core, excepting setups with Nvidia ion.
I have a CUSL2_C that also can't lock PCI/AGP, still got it running on 150 FSB, which puts the PCI to 37 MHz and the AGP to 74 MHz. Still stable. Got my P3 933 up to 1050 MHz that way.
HappyBeezerStudios - by Lord_Mogul in my case I could oc higher only if I used on-board audio(which was a shitty ac97 Realtek), otherwise the sound card would freeze when raising the PCI clock.
I would naively have predicted about a 40% performance delta, and it certainly looks like that's about right, with a few outliers. Nice beast, that P3!
Just got my first P3-S 1.4GHz from EBAY, wasnt cheap. Modded it with the korean guy PCB and put it in Asus P3B-F with MS-6905 slotket. FSB to 150MHz (clock speed 1570MHz), 512MB memory with 2-2-2 timings, Geforce 5900XT and yes, ~11400 from 3DMark01. I can run Doom3 and Flatout2 with it. And if I want some DOS gaming then I just swap multiplier unlocked P2-300 (Klamath) in and clock it to 2x66=133MHz. :)
Hi Phil, you don't technically need a Tualatin compatible chipset. I'm using one with a slot-based Asus P3B-F 440BX, using a slotket that has been modded. It's quite easy to mod. I can go from a P2 233 @ running 133 to the 1.4 Tualatin-S, crazy! And with ISA for sound as well
It does overclock the FSB however it runs just fine, and the PCI clock is correct as there is a divider for it in the BIOS but AGP bus is slightly overclocked. My Geforce 5900 works just fine with it though. The slotket I used is very cheap, they are available from Germany for 5 Euro - MSI 6905. You can either mod the socket side or get one of the adapters that fits onto the CPU side instead, either way it's quite easy to do if you google Tualatin pin mod you should find the info
The Tualatin would probably win, because it has double the L2 cache of T-bird and Cu-mine. The P4 Willy would be quite a bit slower than both, because having a 20-stage pipeline compared to 11 would more than cancel out the 400Mhz clock speed bump. We should all just let the Pentium 4 die, it was a dingleberry on the butthole of history!
There is couple of better Pentium 3s in the form of the Pentium M as they got the Tualatin core with some more modern features and they clock higher while being cheaper.
@@TheGodOfBlocks Same execution core while the floating point unit and other things were new. You can read what exactly was changed in articles posted online.
Daniel Tekmyster I had three Amiga1200's over the years and two Amiga600's. One of the 1200, had a GVP Turbojaws II accelerator card, surf squirrel controller and I sold it for 25 US Dollars more than 12 years ago. It was stupid of me, yet the machine was worth nothing at that time. Thats how things are in life.
I was lucky enough to get a p3 1ghz that overclocked to 1.13 Tualatin speeds. I had to have a 1.4 T and got one to o/c to 1.7 and I was in heaven for many years. I still have the computer and am thinking about setting it up as a retro gaming PC.
I remember my very first PC I built myself had a 1.0 GHz Pentium III, 256 mbs of pc133 ram, 32 mb nvidia geforce 2, 20 GB hard drive, and ran Windows Me. I remember that I built in March of 2001. Then before I sold it, I remember I upgraded it to Windows XP.
Your first build sounds very similar to my 2nd build; had it long enough for most of its original components to died: P3 1Ghz Gigabyte 815 MB (which died and had to find an ASUS replacement) 256MB SDRAM ATI RAGE 32MB (died and replaced by Geforce 2 MX400 64MB) 20GB HDD (died and replaced with a Maxtor 80GB) Creative SB Vibra (died and replaced by Creative SB Live 24bit - 0410) Liteon 52x CD ROM (blew up one CD, then died sometime later, replaced by ASUS DVD-CDRW Combo drive)
I remember at the time, if you had a large budget, you could get a 1.5 Ghz Pentium 4 system with 256 mb of rdram. Of course my desktop build I have now still isn't new today, but kindof modern. Has an Intel Core i7-4770k cpu, 16 GBs of ddr3 ram at 2400 mhz, and an EVGA NVidia gtx 1060 6 GB ftw2+ graphics card and a 275 GB crucial ssd with a 3 TB seagate hdd. I think most of my components are from around 2013, I guess still good enough though to run the latest games and stuff.
I still have a 1,266GHz P3-S and an Asus TUSL2-C Mainboard, which I will reassemble again after your inspiration :-) . Have you ever had a Pentium-M, running with the Asus CT-479 on a Socket 478 Mainboard? That's my other retro-PC-rig, overclocked from 1,73GHz to 2,4, running great on Windows XP for a very long time...
I already had a Celeron Tualatin 1.4 GHz, it was the best Celeron I ever had. The Celeron D I have not even close to the performance I had with Tualatin.
Still remember using a Celeron D 2.4GHz. The computer felt a lot slower with it than it did the Pentium III 667 in my previous machine (which was upgraded from a Celeron 433)
The Celeron D is the worst CPU I know of. It is so extremely slow that even the slowest pentium 4 outperforms a 3GHz Celeron D. I still don't understand the naming scheme, because the D would suggest it's a slower/crippled version of the Dual core Pentium D, but it isn't
BTW I made a dual tualatin 1.4 GHz system run skyrim. I had to remove the SSE2 instructions in ollydbg, and for some super strange reason, the game still runs even with those instructions removed (it shouldn't work, but it does). Probably really bad EXE optimization. It crashes about once every half hour, but gets like 20-25 fps. Video card was HD 4650 (second fastest AGP).
I really wanted one of these after seeing a PC manufacturer paired these with DDR RAM for their top tier machines but the whole system was $2200 without a monitor.
But it breaks compatibility with some games; also there’s really no need for it because the console is locked to 24fps. There is also a 128MB of RAM mod, but again what’s the point?
Good job, Phil! I only wish you'd also benchmarked a 500 MHz Katmai (I still keep one such system, btw). Thus, we would have seen the performance differences over 500 MHz increments of the three revisions. An early P4 could also complete the picture, but hey, it's never enough :)
You mentioned the Athlon fx-57, that was the single core version of the 939 athlon 64 fx CPU right? I have a fx-60 that I bought of eBay about 5 years ago to replace the 4200+ I had originally. The absolute best socket 939 cpu.
You should try to build a Scoket 479 Pentium M PC (yes, there are standard mATX and ITX desktop motherboards for the mobile Pentium and Celeron M), and see how does it compares to the 1.4 GHZ Tualatin PIII and a P4 of the same era.
Pham Nguyen Duc Tin yeah the Pentium 3 based mobile CPUs were much better than the p4 chips and that is why the core line did not add onto the p4 architecture but rather use the Pentium m for reference because of its lower power consumption and better performance per MHz
Nils Pc Vids yes inded the Pentium Pro derived into PII & PIII... this design was used as the foundation for the core lineup wich is what Intel evolved up to the current CPUs 😊
I just rewatched this video cause I wasn't sure if I needed a better graphics card for win98 or a better cpu. I have a GF2Ti on a 1000EB system with a VIA 133T chipset motherboard (GA-6VTXE). I also have an FX5900XT and I compared both cards and found out that the GF2Ti is faster in low resolutions but the FX5900XT is way ahead in resolutions like 1280x1024 and in some games in 1024x768 too. So I realized that the FX is severely bottlenecked by the cpu, hence I definetely need this tualatin processor!
My 1.4 ghz tualatin died, it suddenly stated to have high temps and to no longer boot windows and then when i take it out of the computer to see what's the problem the heatspreader was glued to the heatsync and the rest of the cpu was in the socket, so that's how i have delidded my tuialatin 4.1 ghz without the intention of doing it, but now my retro system is running fine with a 1133 mhz pentium 3s, i am looking for a replacement in shops in my city that have bins of used computer parts, so i can bring back to full speed my voodoo 5 5500 system, but why did you use a voodoo 5 5500 as ruler? I'd also like to see the voodoo 5 benchmark with different processors, and if you have a motherboard with a kt333 chipset, that's one of the fastest that can support the voodoo 5, so try to use one of those with the fatest cpu you can get for it
Wow, it sounds like your 1.4GHz Tualatin had a serious manufacturing defect. It probably started overheating because the integrated heat spreader lost it's adhesion to the die. The fact that it came off when you pulled the heatsink was just a secondary effect.
What a piece of beautiful hardware !!! On my first pc i had a p3 at 600MHz but i was too young to understand which model it was... nice processor which gave me hundreds hours of playing games
The first time I built a Tualatin 1.4GHz and put a reasonable graphics card in it (Geforce 2 MX I think), I was blown away. I actually built computers for a living back in the day, and I just don't remember anything that smooth at the time.
It seems ok. Are you sure you aren't thinking of the TNT2 M64? The GeForce 2 MX 400 was not top of the line. But it is way better than what I had back in the day!
Geforce 2 MX was the most rebranded video card ever until the Geforce 8800 series, and then AMD R9 290x (which is still planned for another re-release as the RX 580X!)
These really good videos and stuff, what would like with these era of gaming, if you would not be better off going with one of more common Athlon xp cpu you would find around early 2000s?
I had a P3 1GHz back in the day, and it was a beast at the time. Being a student I was looking for a budget option to upgrade, and the prospect of just swapping out the CPU was appealing, but my Via chipset motherboard wasn't compatible with the Tualatin processors. Clearly the P4 was the way Intel was going, but P4 motherboards and CPUs commanded a pretty hefty price premium, so I just ended up going with an AMD Athlon XP 1900+ thoroughbred. My next upgrade was an Athlon 64, but I did eventually get a P4, which was a cast-off from a friend's upgrade.
I didn't hear it mentioned but the Tualatin seems to have gotten rid of the ISA slot. You can still use the P3 1100 and 1000 in a slot configuration with converter board and keep an ISA video card. I don't see the perf being a big deal, everything on the highest non P3-S works great.
i still have my first pc that has a 1Ghz tualatin celeron on it and a AOpen MX3S-T. i got it from my school at the time, no idea why they threw it out. it was fine and they were still using that model. but hey i finally could play better games and this was somewhere around the year 2003-2005 or so.
a friend of min has a re-capped abit bp6 with a couple of the 1.4ghz celeron Tualatin chips in adapters, water cooled, and overclocked as far as the chip would go(the board will do 165mhz fsb with the other chips we have put in it...that were replaced... its genuinely amazing for its era... destroys any pentium-d you compare it to... the cpus and adapters cost him a good bit, but...he wanted to try it and the site that sold him the combo guariteed it would work.. they had the p3 full version but suggested the celeron ver since it wasnt much dif, if i remember correctly the only dif in the case of the models he got, was fsb being 100 by default rather then 133... but 1.4ghz by default so higher default multi....heh... these were sort of like the k6-3 of its day... you didnt see them for sale alot... but people who had them loved them... (i had a few friends with the k6-3 that got 600-650 out of them...one of our friends removed the lid and made a shim at his fathers work... he got 750 out of his using a swiftech cooler.... the risk of breaking a core was high...he killed 2 k6-2 before getting the shim correct...
The Tualatin was always expensive and hard to find even new. Motherboard compatibility was a problem as well. I had the P3 1Ghz and it worked well for years until I went to the P4 Prescott. Totally skipped the Willamette because the Prescott kept my room warmer in the Winter time. lol
how come you didn't test it against the obvious? atlhon 1.4ghz [edit] well i guess it loses to the atlhon since i used to get 11k 3dmarks 2001 with mine and an overclocked ti4400 that was a bit a tiny bit slower than a stock ti4600
Once again Phil, You're a fount of knowledge. (PS: I wish modern CPUs would come with out the IHS. Problem is they won't take the risk of some idiot breaking the chip.)
I'm using an AOpen ax6bc 440bx board with a Tualatin 1.4 in a modified adapter. Probably wasn't worth the cost when I could build a P4 or XP system for half the price but like you say, there's something about having the best of an era.
the p3s in dual with the adapters that, at one time where no hard to find, was an amazing setup.. overclocked the celeron version on the dual board for a buddy... man that thing was fast... hes still got it..the celeron had full cache just limited to 100mhz fsb..pushed it to 150mhz(the board would do 155 max before the chipset got balky...nice board, we re-capped that board before rebuilding the system from dual 466 celerons at 1ghz, to dual 1.4g celerons (but that had full cache just default to 100mhz bus...and it was a matched set even) anyway... my god for the day, it destroyed the p4 and p-d in every way... even overclocked it produced less heat.. LOL...)
The first system I overclocked had an 80486 DX 25Mhz. Saw a jumper on the motherboard that switched between 25Mhz and 33Mhz fsb. Swapped it over to 33Mhz and was instantly hooked on overclocking. Pretty much every system I have ever built since then has been overclocked. Most of my current retro machines are not overclocked, but the ones I want to overclock are.. such as my Socket-A system. Abit KT7A motherboard with custom BIOS to support the Barton Mobile CPUs that is overclocked to 2.4Ghz. Overclocking is fun.. and with retro stuff it is fun to not only be able to overclock the snot out of some hardware, but also be able to underclock as well as use other speed limiting settings so you can run a really large range of games, some of which are speed sensitive.
It would be nice to see a test of Tualatin PIII-S 1400MHz on motherboards with different chipsets like: i440BX / i815 / i820 / VIA 694T / ALiM1651T / SiS630ET. My guess is that intel 440BX would win that competition ;)
I was going through my old scrap pc's that I collect.. because well for this reason.. found a duel Pentium 3-s machine thing was pulled out a dumpster if I remember right pretty cool!!
I just bought a 1.4 Ghz PIII and am looking to get a quieter cooler. I am currently using a stock PIII cooler, but it is way too loud. I searched for the Arctic Cooling Copper Silent 3 that you used, but it appears to be out of stock in the USA. Can you recommend any other similar quiet Tualatin-friendly coolers? Thanks.
I had a 1.2 GHz Tualatin Celeron to upgrade from my Pentium II 300Mhz cpu. I purchased the Celeron together with a slot cassette adapter so it could fit into the slot of a Pentium 2. My PC came to life again in a crazy way! Best CPU upgrade ever. Well, maybe together with my Kingston upgrade chip which was based on the AMD 5x86-133 Mhz cpu, to upgrade my Intel 486-66 Mhz cpu. That was also one bloody good upgrade. Sigh, where are the days...
So the corsair vs450 psu has enough power on the 5 and 3.3 line? Im having a real problem finding a good psu for my intel815aae motherboard. It only has one 20pin for power. I would love a retro psu guide video.
@@philscomputerlab Ok so Win98se P3 933mhz (1.4ghz later) Geforce 4400t 128mb 40gb ide hdd 512mb ram Cd rom ide drive Sb live! 5.1 And a few fans ofc. I hear alot of talk about the psu power standard changing around 2002? And the focus went away from the 5v and 3.3v rails to 12v rail. I understand there should be some truth too this claim but maybe for more power hungry hardware then? Could you shine some light on this for me and the rest of us. I see there are others who wonder aswell when i do google searches.
I got two PIII 1.4S for £3 ($4 in today's money) each back in 2010, but without coolers of course. I have a Zalman CNPS6000-CU all copper cooler on it. It overclocks reliably in an ASUS TUSL2-C motherboard at 1.7GHz and approx 155MHz FSB. Brilliant CPU and a classic?
I like collecting these parts as I like to tinker with these old machines and there is a seller on ebay in the US selling these cpu's for $18.99US with free shipping and has 10 available..
Oh man. I had one of these on an Abit BH6 with a custom BIOS that would support it, and a Radeon 9800 XT as well as a GeForce FX 5950 Ultra to swap between. (Spoiler alert: 9800XT whupped the 5950U).
Dear Phil! I finally built my retro pc following your excellent videos! But on the start up screen my PIII is recognized as 1GHz rather than 1.4 My purchase was a PIIIs Tualatin 1.4GHz on ebay and my Mb is an ASUS TUSL2 with the Intel 815 chip. Is there a fixable reason or did they send me the wrong CPU? Thanxxxxxx
Cool stuff! Hope you will someday do a dedicated P3 1Ghz/1.1Ghz copermine build with 815 like chip-set to see what can we achieve (max) from such an affordable system (still) .. What GPU is the best for such system etc etc :)
Those Coppermine Celerons actually weren't bad at all... When compared to the Coppermine P3 anyway. It was all about overclocking it, getting that half cache to operate twice as fast, along with a much higher overall clock. It was pretty common back then to have them getting P3 numbers. Which of course caused me to buy an Abit VP6 dual socket 370 board back then, ran two FCPGA Coppermine Celerons to start... Peltier cooled, then water cool TEC.... A whole additional tower sat beside the full tower case and was nothing but ATX power supplies wired together inside, with a harness coming out to run the water-cooling system, TEC's, fans, etc.... Until later on in the systems life, when I swapped the Celerons out for actual Coppermine P3's, then overclocked those with the same coolers... BUT, now without the second PSU tower, and with a stand alone bench-top 12VDC power supply... Just a black unit with an illuminated orange switch. The CPU's ran below zero most of the time, creating ice around the sockets and such. Never an issue though, was my daily computer and gaming rig, was just what I did back then. But I fondly recall this era.... My favorite era really. I did have a BP6 mobo prior to this set up, which ran two regular 370's ... The VP6 was the FC-PGA 370... which is what the Coppermine chips used, though folks seem to just refer to it as a "370", the actual socket 370 came before... And that BP6 had two of them, with a 440BX chipset which Abit somehow worked SMP out on... Using Windows 2000, which was just in time for all of this, was ideal... It was an NT based OS, so it knew how to use more than one CPU, and waaaay before multi core cpu's, or hyper-threading... I had a task manager that showed me two CPU charts... Was great. Had that working with two original socket 370 Celerons, which changed throughout the systems life, also TEC cooled, then water cooled. That whole cooling system began with the right before the BP6 actually, and then grew to a dual system for it... and lasted all the way thought the VP6 life... Years of service, with a home made water cooling kit that cooled thermal electric coolers... Which had a transmission cooler for the radiator, mounted to the top of a custom made full tower case, which was painted bright yellow with black accents... automotive paint, HVLP sprayed. Had the rad mounted up top with a CNC machined grille setup... It was nice. This whole time period was just the best time to be doing this stuff. Before it was all able to be store bought and slapped together by any 8 year old kid with just a Best Buy in the mix. The ingenuity, the wild ideas and executions. The hardware. This is why I like your channel as well, you have a way of allowing me to relive most of this era, and to play with hardware I never had... in a way, anyway. So keep it up man, you've got quite a good thing happening here.
I just ordered a dual socket tualatin server motherboard with 2 GB RAM and two of these 1.4 ghz P3s. Dual CPU Tualatin... curious how Windows 7 runs on that.
I have 1 of these running on a regular socket 370 Asus server board with an adapter on the back of them with stock 370 cooler. No special mobo or coolers needed. Found them cheep on eBay. Motherboard doesn't list them in supported cpu but that's because they won't fit in regular 370 socket without adapter plate installed. Runs fine even has lower vcore voltage.
It's worth mentioning that you can pin mod the Taulatin to make it work with most motherboards, just remove three pins and bridge two wires :) works well with Via 133 Apollo boards for instance
I bought one of the modified III-s Tualatins from South Korea. Though my Slot 1 motherboard supports 133Mhz FSB and runs just fine at 1200Mhz (133x9) on my VIA C3 it will not run the Tualatin at 133 FSB. This is using an MS-6905 slotket for both. Just something to keep in mind.
Gonna do that with my CUSL2-C at some point.
LOL I can remember doing that back in the day with a 1.2Ghz Celly Tualatin on an Abit SE6 Rev 2 and then overclocking it to 1.6Ghz for the rest of it's life. I can remember these Tualatins were outperforming the first P4's at that time in games.
Back in the day I bought an adapter socket for the taulatin CPU's. I think it also had a VRM mod.
I still have a few of the Pentium 3s and the Celeron variant. I found delidding them a good way to get them to work with old school heat sinks. I remember bringing my dual P3 to Lan parties back in the day and getting all excited.
so do I, I just need compatible motherboards, but they are getting rarer and rarer, and expensive , around $200
Impressive results...I didn't expect such a big performance boost comparing it to the 1000EB coppermine! It would be very interesting to see performance against early P4 cpu's also.
As far as I can remember the PIII-S absolutely destroys the early P4 CPU's in many many benchmarks and tasks. Especially ones that weren't memory sensitive.
Not 100% sure about this but I believe the Pentium III-S was more tuned for application in mobile systems in a time when the 'Banias' Pentium M's weren't quite ready for market and the Pentium 4 hadn't a good mobile counterpart yet. (If there were any good Pentium 4 M's, those were always a joke.)
About the Pentium M, it was heavily based on the PIII architecture and included the good elements of the P4. A really streamlined CPU.
I was given a laptop with a Pentium M 755 (2.0 GHz). The Machine felt highly streamlined: fast boot time, with applications feeling very responsive. Amazed how well the architecture performs even to the point of competing well with AMD's Athlon 64 depending on the workload.
Some nostalgia if anyone's interested: www.anandtech.com/show/1399
QuadTubeChannel well that's where the core2 family was ultimately born from, so that's not that surprising
@@fabiolorefice1895 The P3-S was designed for servers and workstations, especially one that would run 24/7. Hence, the "S" designation.
The Intel Pentium III-S at 1.4Ghz and with the 512KB cache will really put some hurting on even the 2.0Ghz P4s despite lacking SSE2 in those early days no different from how AMD's 1.4Ghz Athlon was also able to do the same...
You can see why Intel made a particular chipset requirement which meant locking out the PIII motherboards from Intel that had RDRAM which would have further exposed something weak about the P4s which was actually exposed by the mainstream PC media when they used the Intel Pentium-M (essentially a hidden PIII architecture) meant for mobile solutions as a desktop CPU...
Not saying that Netburst and P4s were bad but the story was that P4s were supposed to get faster when they hit higher clock speeds beyond 3.2Ghz and arguably even the 3.7Ghz which were P4s that were also locked out of running on Dual Channel RDRAM motherboard set ups... because RDRAM did have higher performance the higher the CPU clocks and smaller die shrinks allowed.
i would love to see an comparison with P4 Willamette Socket 423 1.4~2.0Ghz..
maybe with some Rambus memory.
Especially with some of the early P4 era Celerons as well. I used to have a 2.4GHz Celeron which I overclocked right up to 3Ghz pretty stable and 3.2Ghz with some issues. Used to game on it back in the 2000s.
A 1400 Tualatin with full 512k cache is around a 1.7-2.0 GHz Pentium 4 depending on the test. The P4 with RDRAM will got alot of bandwith with it, but the long pipeline lows it down alot (except for stuff that can keep it filled, like video rendering) Beating even 2.4-2.6 GHz Celerons in some situations.
With oc to 1575 MHz (150 FSB, easy to reach on good boards) and we are talking serious buissness.
Even when the code had been optimized for the P4, the Tualatin, Coppermine and AMD's Thunderbird and Thoroughbred beat the P4 quite well.
You really had to set it up right for the P4 to win. Video editing was pretty much never benchmarked before the P4, as it was one of it's strong points. Until the P4 hit 3GHz it just wasn't worth it.
The AMD chips were faster and burned less power, the older Intel chips were essentially killed off early so the P4 could keep going.
Intel doctored the Tualatin core and created the Pentium M, later the Core Solo, Core Duo and Core 2 Duo, eventually leading to Nehalim and the Core ix line. The big reason we have the Core lineup now is that the P4 wasn't a good fit for the mobile world. Intel also realized near the end of the P4's life that the next generation of the P4's heat production and power requirements would be ridiculous. It sounds like they had 5GHz P4, maybe even dual core prototypes, but power consumption was obscene compared to the performance they were getting out of the Core Solo.
I'll see what I can dig up.
I owned all of the processors I mentioned above and then some. It is rather hard to find benchmarks from 17 years ago though.
The video editing thing was hoot. FlaskMPEG was recompiled with an Intel optimized compiler and it improved AMD's performance more than the Pentium 4. Still have a copy of both versions of that program on file here.
AMD vs early Pentium 4 Willamette. I was wrong on the clock speeds, it was the Northwood core that really started to cook, closer to 2.4GHz. Still looking for Tualatin benches. The Tualatin held it's own against the Athlon clock for clock. The Athlon, of course, kept going.
www.anandtech.com/show/818/7
I used a tualatin p3s 1400 with a cuv4x mobo until my phenom II upgrade in 2010! This processor was incredibly ahead of its time. Paired with newer gpus like a geforce FX you could walk distances with it.
Totally true. I kept this cpu for ages. Sounds daft, but I honestly felt it was just as fast
than my P4 1800
Love the cleaning of the die montage and that Arctic Cooling cooler!
There is one other option. There is an adapter to allow Tualatins to fit in slightly older sockets. You will need to mod your cooler because you are adding the thickness of another socket and you'll want the heatsink to clip on the socket on the motherboard. Once a relative finds a Dell PC I built for them around that time, I can show you. I had to get such an adapter to put the 1.4GHz Tualatin in it. It has a Voodoo card in it too so I hope they find it someday. It should be in their basement somewhere. Awesome video! Of course, follow it up with a comparison to the first gen P4 and/or Athlon.
Holy crap I always wanted one of those and a good DFI with the 815 chipset... Thanks for bringing back some wonderful memories Phil!
I love the Celeron Tualatins. With the proper adapter they make a great upgrade for a slot-1 motherboard.
Soul reaver
Would be fun to test this against a pentium 4 @ 1.4Ghz and also add an AMD Athlon XP of the time at the mix...
The PIII 1.4Ghz would destroy the Pentium IV 1.4Ghz and it would be roughly similar to the slowest Athlons XP (1500/1600+).
no...it doesn't. I have both the PIII S 1.4ghz and a 1.4ghz P4. Difference comes down to ram speed. P4 uses RAMBUS, makes about 10% difference in favor of the P4. And, I made sure to use the same winxp pro os, 1gb of ram, and same GeForce 3 (vanilla) cards, both use SB Live! and IDE HDDs by Seagate with 80gb storage. So minus the chipsets, and cpus and ram, that's as identical as they get without expensive crossover boards for the ram/chipset
I was about to say the same. Phil, I'd love to see a part 2 of this video comparing the Tualatin 1.4 against the Athlon Thunderbird 1.4, an early Athlon XP and some Willamette Pentium 4's.
I've seen so many benchmarks saying otherwise... The only game in which the Rambus made a difference was Quake 3.
Add those crappy Celerons - 1.7 Ghz sucked so terribly...
ah yes .. the holy grail of my old company :-D when i started there, we all had 1.4GHz P3 Dell desktops ... then, some of us were getting the P4 2GHz+ machines (dont remember the speed, but was with HT)... after a while we noticed a huge performance impact on the P4s ... so we had some official statement from company "X" that their app runs best on P3 with the short pipeline ... so all good at the end and we could keep our P3s..
Thanks for sharing, love these nuggets from the past :D
I have a 933 Mhz Coppermine with a Tualatin compatible board. There was a listing for one on ebay for 10€, but I missed it... damn, I really should have gotten it. Thx for the video!
just ordered a TUSL2-C to play with a p3-s too (and a voodoo 3 pci and gf2 ultra agp).
Damn, the more i watch your videos, the more i lust for a high end PC from my late childhood. I already have a 5820k/32gb/GTX970 for recent stuff and Q9550/4gb/GTX650 for XP stuff...maybe some day they'll be accompanied by a PIII-S 1.4/512mb/Ti4600 98SE PC.
Sounds pretty good. Like that Core 2 setup.
i'm still using Pentium!!! 1ghz 133/256 . it's awesome cpu. Thnx for the video. Greetings from Turkey
I have one in one of my old rigs, and have a 450 MHz and a 500 MHz of the Katmai cores as well.
:\ i don't have any pentiu... oh wait, i still have my pentium 2 i think. 400mhz. used to run it at 533mhz, even ran it at 600mhz for a good 6 months.
aside from that, it's all athlons for me. except for that one pentium 4 3ghz HT that i bought recently. and for my 2009 laptop, which is a pentium dual-core. but that doesn't count since it's just a gimped core2duo, not a real pentium.
I bought one these off ebay in the late 90's. It was wonderful. I have not been excited over computers since the 90's.
Interesting, you bought it before it was actually available, that's nice, tell us more. First generation of PIII - Katmai, was launched in 1999. Tualatin was launched in mid 2001, and the 1400 model was launched only in 2002, yet, somehow, you bought it in late 90s...
I have a bit of a soft spot for the III-S. In early 2002, I was looking to upgrade from a P2-233. The P4 2.2 had just been released, and I think AMD had the 2000+ Athlon XP at the time. Both great processors, but I just had to build something a little less mainstream, so I chose the PIII-S. I overclocked mine to 1575MHz and paired it with 1GB of memory, a 160GB HDD, and an Audigy sound card. Playing host was a mainboard based on the Apollo Pro 266T chipset. Well over budget, I had to cheap out on the video card, so I used an MX440 for a year. Then in 2003, I went all out and sprang for the Radeon 9800 Pro.
Man, that PIII-S was my main system until late 2005!
Something I wanted to look into, but ran out of time. The Pentium III-S is more a workstation type CPU? Like a Xeon these days? Because I believe most PCs for the general public, they went straight from a 1 GHz Pentium III to a Pentium 4. Like Aldi for example, I like using them as a time period reference.
Yeah, the "S" processors were intended for server use. The standard desktop Tualatin only had 256K of cache and wasn't much faster than the Coppermine EB, clock-for-clock. The cache latency on the desktop version was also a bit higher, similar to a Coppermine. Interestingly, the mobile Tualatin had the full 512K, and laptops based on them were real screamers! I wonder why Intel only chose to handicap the desktop processors.
Probably because the release of the Pentium 4 was close and pretty much a failure. Especially the earlier Socket 423 ones with 256kb L2 and not much higher clock than the Tualatin.
It's always pleasant to see your vids.
Oh man...so glad I bought this setup (mobo/cpu) back in the day. Got the CPU for $10 USD and the mobo for $40. Mobo I ended up with was a DFI board CT64 I think. 2006 was a good year to buy older stuff. Been working on my own benchmarking stuff, but after Phil mentioned the ram deal, finding board that support DDR for the AMD and P4 and PIII systems can be a challenge.
Very close on the pronunciation of Tualatin there. A lot better than most other channels. These architectures are difficult to pronounce from just reading them, so here’s a handy guide:
Tualatin: “two all a tin”
Deschutes: “duh-shoots”
Willamette: “Will am it”
They’re named after locations in Oregon, US.
I have a Tyan dual socket 370 motherboard with two 1.4 ghz, it is rocksolid. It also has 4 x 512mb pc133 sd-ram installed! Also have a Gigabyte dual 370 motherboard with dual 1.26 ghz. One thing I love with the Tyan motherboard, with the latest bios update it supports IDE-harddrives larger than 120gb. All way up the last IDE drive, 750gb. I don't remember the model numbers, but I love dual cpu systems.
2GB of RAM? Nice! I wonder what chipset that board has...
The Tyan mother is a Tyan S2507T (Tiger 230T) It uses the VIA Apollo Pro133T chipset. And the Gigabyte motherboard is a GA-6VTXD and it uses the same kind of chipset too.
LellePrinter82 that tyan system was THE shit back then. i had a 1ghz thunderbird at the time and always dreamed of a tyan dual cpu board. You have a real cool piece of PC history there, i think.
I'm jealous. That sounds like an awesome system to play with. I wonder how it compares to a low end core duo laptop? The Yonah based T2050 @ 1.6ghz must be pretty close?
And the best is, I found the Tyan motherboard years ago in an old pc case from the dumpster. I would've loved to own a Dual Pentium Pro system too. Right now I have a single Pentium Pro 200mhz System, with 128mb of edo ram.
I bought one a couple of years ago to go into my Windows 98 Retro (in a modern Case) build. Such a beast.
There's a guy on eBay that sells these that has them mounted to a PCB that makes them compatible with more motherboards. I bought two for my Asus dual Pentium 3 motherboard and they worked right out of the box, though they don't show up in the Bios as the right processor but they work great. I'm now running Windows XP great with dual Tualatin. That machine is a beast.
Does your motherboard support the 133 MHz FSB, or will it overclock the bus?
Yes it does, it's the Asus CUV4X-D. It seems pretty stable. I put 4x256mb pc133 ram in it and haven't had any bsod's. I got it for a good deal on ebay
Anyone remember this..the so-called 'slocket'?
www.tomshardware.co.uk/the-resurrection,review-616.html
I do have a powerleap for a tualatin celeron. But no this is what i got on ebay. www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-Tualatin-Pentium-IIIs-1-4GHz-512K-include-On-chip-Socket-Adapter/281238323137. It's a PCB mounted under the cpu that makes the cpu like 1mm thicker. Basically it mods the pins to make it work in older socket 370 motherboards.
i have an asus CUV4X-DLS which is like the CUV4X-D, just with SCSI (i think)... sadly only with 2x 1 ghz coppermine at the moment but i will upgrade to 1.4 tualatins in the future
My 14000 Tualatin runs with 1575MHz and default VCore of 1,45V. The SL6BY Stepping is better than the older SL5XL.
Great to see this. I remember back in 2004, I got my first PC has pentium celeron 2.4ghz.
Another great video Phil! I think that I would get an Athlon 64 or a core2duo, since the Tualatin motherboards lack ISA slots. I am stuck with coppermine for the time being, but it's great to see this CPU tested here!
Some Tualatin supporting boards do have ISA slots, not easy to find though.
I had a p3 Tualatin with a Radeon 9550.I remember being able to oc like 75 MHz out of it because I was using a mobo not able to lock the PCI /agp bus frequency so things got unstable pretty fast. This thing was extremely fast, it wasn't an a64 but it worked very well, the CPU so fast that it outperformed every atom setup up until the Pineview core, excepting setups with Nvidia ion.
I have a CUSL2_C that also can't lock PCI/AGP, still got it running on 150 FSB, which puts the PCI to 37 MHz and the AGP to 74 MHz. Still stable. Got my P3 933 up to 1050 MHz that way.
HappyBeezerStudios - by Lord_Mogul in my case I could oc higher only if I used on-board audio(which was a shitty ac97 Realtek), otherwise the sound card would freeze when raising the PCI clock.
moto racer and pentium 3 two beautiful memories from my high school days.
I would naively have predicted about a 40% performance delta, and it certainly looks like that's about right, with a few outliers. Nice beast, that P3!
Just got my first P3-S 1.4GHz from EBAY, wasnt cheap. Modded it with the korean guy PCB and put it in Asus P3B-F with MS-6905 slotket. FSB to 150MHz (clock speed 1570MHz), 512MB memory with 2-2-2 timings, Geforce 5900XT and yes, ~11400 from 3DMark01. I can run Doom3 and Flatout2 with it. And if I want some DOS gaming then I just swap multiplier unlocked P2-300 (Klamath) in and clock it to 2x66=133MHz. :)
Hi Phil, you don't technically need a Tualatin compatible chipset. I'm using one with a slot-based Asus P3B-F 440BX, using a slotket that has been modded. It's quite easy to mod. I can go from a P2 233 @ running 133 to the 1.4 Tualatin-S, crazy! And with ISA for sound as well
That overclocks the FSB and busses, doesn't it? And such an adapter often costs more than a proper Tualatin compatible board.
It does overclock the FSB however it runs just fine, and the PCI clock is correct as there is a divider for it in the BIOS but AGP bus is slightly overclocked. My Geforce 5900 works just fine with it though. The slotket I used is very cheap, they are available from Germany for 5 Euro - MSI 6905. You can either mod the socket side or get one of the adapters that fits onto the CPU side instead, either way it's quite easy to do if you google Tualatin pin mod you should find the info
Hi Phil, is it possobile to do a review P3 1.4 tualatin vs AMD Athlon 1.4 GHz Tunderbird but on a SDR Mainboard?
1.4 Tualatin vs 1.4 Thunderbird DDR vs. 1.4 Thunderbirds SDR vs 1.8 Willamette SDR vs. 1.8 Willamette RD, that would be a nice test.
The Tualatin would probably win, because it has double the L2 cache of T-bird and Cu-mine. The P4 Willy would be quite a bit slower than both, because having a 20-stage pipeline compared to 11 would more than cancel out the 400Mhz clock speed bump. We should all just let the Pentium 4 die, it was a dingleberry on the butthole of history!
Everyone knows that P4 will win - but you forgot a real 2001 king AthlonXP 1800+ Palomino @@HappyBeezerStudios
As always awesome video, would've been nice to see comparison with tualatin celerons though.
There is couple of better Pentium 3s in the form of the Pentium M as they got the Tualatin core with some more modern features and they clock higher while being cheaper.
Wait, are you telling me that a Pentium M 780 is essentially a Pentium III running at 2.27GHz with 2MB of cache??
@@TheGodOfBlocks Same execution core while the floating point unit and other things were new. You can read what exactly was changed in articles posted online.
I had a lot of the 1.4ghz pIII processors... 😢 I stupidly got rid of them
Always the way isn't it mate. I've thrown or sold so much stuff over the years, including a Commodore Amiga 2000 in pristine condition. Oh well.
Daniel Tekmyster i still have a milk crate full of P3's, P4's, and socket 462 athlons...
Daniel Tekmyster I had three Amiga1200's over the years and two Amiga600's. One of the 1200, had a GVP Turbojaws II accelerator card, surf squirrel controller and I sold it for 25 US Dollars more than 12 years ago. It was stupid of me, yet the machine was worth nothing at that time. Thats how things are in life.
Shame on you |:v
I remember the days when you couldn’t give Voodoo cards away, I must have dumped dozens of them 😫
Can you do a video comparing and choosing the best motherboards for PIII.
Also, please review any PCI graphics cards for pIII motherboards.
I was lucky enough to get a p3 1ghz that overclocked to 1.13 Tualatin speeds. I had to have a 1.4 T and got one to o/c to 1.7 and I was in heaven for many years. I still have the computer and am thinking about setting it up as a retro gaming PC.
Tualatins were awesome cpus for it's time. Straight from them intel developed pentium m if remember correctly. Another great vid :)
You should have also tried the normal Tualatin 1.4GHz (non S version). It would have been interesting to see how much difference there is.
I remember my very first PC I built myself had a 1.0 GHz Pentium III, 256 mbs of pc133 ram, 32 mb nvidia geforce 2, 20 GB hard drive, and ran Windows Me. I remember that I built in March of 2001. Then before I sold it, I remember I upgraded it to Windows XP.
Your first build sounds very similar to my 2nd build; had it long enough for most of its original components to died:
P3 1Ghz
Gigabyte 815 MB (which died and had to find an ASUS replacement)
256MB SDRAM
ATI RAGE 32MB (died and replaced by Geforce 2 MX400 64MB)
20GB HDD (died and replaced with a Maxtor 80GB)
Creative SB Vibra (died and replaced by Creative SB Live 24bit - 0410)
Liteon 52x CD ROM (blew up one CD, then died sometime later, replaced by ASUS DVD-CDRW Combo drive)
I remember at the time, if you had a large budget, you could get a 1.5 Ghz Pentium 4 system with 256 mb of rdram. Of course my desktop build I have now still isn't new today, but kindof modern. Has an Intel Core i7-4770k cpu, 16 GBs of ddr3 ram at 2400 mhz, and an EVGA NVidia gtx 1060 6 GB ftw2+ graphics card and a 275 GB crucial ssd with a 3 TB seagate hdd. I think most of my components are from around 2013, I guess still good enough though to run the latest games and stuff.
Thank you for Using the Pentium III processor . They are worth far More as a Working Computer Part than you'll ever get in Gold Scrap :\ QC
theres Tualatin based Celerons...
wonder how much of a difference the cache size and bus speed really makes
My CSS course's server room has 3 old Compaq servers each with 2 Tualatins.
I still have a 1,266GHz P3-S and an Asus TUSL2-C Mainboard, which I will reassemble again after your inspiration :-) . Have you ever had a Pentium-M, running with the Asus CT-479 on a Socket 478 Mainboard? That's my other retro-PC-rig, overclocked from 1,73GHz to 2,4, running great on Windows XP for a very long time...
i'm coming to Australia next year . i'll meet you for sure
I already had a Celeron Tualatin 1.4 GHz, it was the best Celeron I ever had. The Celeron D I have not even close to the performance I had with Tualatin.
Still remember using a Celeron D 2.4GHz. The computer felt a lot slower with it than it did the Pentium III 667 in my previous machine (which was upgraded from a Celeron 433)
The Celeron D is the worst CPU I know of. It is so extremely slow that even the slowest pentium 4 outperforms a 3GHz Celeron D.
I still don't understand the naming scheme, because the D would suggest it's a slower/crippled version of the Dual core Pentium D, but it isn't
BTW I made a dual tualatin 1.4 GHz system run skyrim. I had to remove the SSE2 instructions in ollydbg, and for some super strange reason, the game still runs even with those instructions removed (it shouldn't work, but it does). Probably really bad EXE optimization. It crashes about once every half hour, but gets like 20-25 fps. Video card was HD 4650 (second fastest AGP).
4:10 missed the perfect opportunity to make an over 9000 joke :p haha
I don't get that one...
th-cam.com/video/SiMHTK15Pik/w-d-xo.html
I doubt your nerdiness for lack of such trivia. :p
I really wanted one of these after seeing a PC manufacturer paired these with DDR RAM for their top tier machines but the whole system was $2200 without a monitor.
i got mine in a 440bx board with a socket adapter, pretty amazing.
used in OG Xbox CPU upgrades,
But it breaks compatibility with some games; also there’s really no need for it because the console is locked to 24fps. There is also a 128MB of RAM mod, but again what’s the point?
RWL2012 emulators and other apps
RWL2012 but your right since they've been using more compatible chips now, games do exist that are patched for the upgrades.
oh fair enough :)
what are the more compatible chips...?
Good job, Phil! I only wish you'd also benchmarked a 500 MHz Katmai (I still keep one such system, btw). Thus, we would have seen the performance differences over 500 MHz increments of the three revisions. An early P4 could also complete the picture, but hey, it's never enough :)
You mentioned the Athlon fx-57, that was the single core version of the 939 athlon 64 fx CPU right? I have a fx-60 that I bought of eBay about 5 years ago to replace the 4200+ I had originally. The absolute best socket 939 cpu.
Yea it's the fastest single core FX.
You should try to build a Scoket 479 Pentium M PC (yes, there are standard mATX and ITX desktop motherboards for the mobile Pentium and Celeron M), and see how does it compares to the 1.4 GHZ Tualatin PIII and a P4 of the same era.
The 1.86 GHz Pentium M 750 performs at the same level as a 2.8 GHz Pentium 4.
Pham Nguyen Duc Tin yeah the Pentium 3 based mobile CPUs were much better than the p4 chips and that is why the core line did not add onto the p4 architecture but rather use the Pentium m for reference because of its lower power consumption and better performance per MHz
Nils Pc Vids yes inded the Pentium Pro derived into PII & PIII... this design was used as the foundation for the core lineup wich is what Intel evolved up to the current CPUs 😊
I just rewatched this video cause I wasn't sure if I needed a better graphics card for win98 or a better cpu. I have a GF2Ti on a 1000EB system with a VIA 133T chipset motherboard (GA-6VTXE). I also have an FX5900XT and I compared both cards and found out that the GF2Ti is faster in low resolutions but the FX5900XT is way ahead in resolutions like 1280x1024 and in some games in 1024x768 too. So I realized that the FX is severely bottlenecked by the cpu, hence I definetely need this tualatin processor!
My 1.4 ghz tualatin died, it suddenly stated to have high temps and to no longer boot windows and then when i take it out of the computer to see what's the problem the heatspreader was glued to the heatsync and the rest of the cpu was in the socket, so that's how i have delidded my tuialatin 4.1 ghz without the intention of doing it, but now my retro system is running fine with a 1133 mhz pentium 3s, i am looking for a replacement in shops in my city that have bins of used computer parts, so i can bring back to full speed my voodoo 5 5500 system, but why did you use a voodoo 5 5500 as ruler? I'd also like to see the voodoo 5 benchmark with different processors, and if you have a motherboard with a kt333 chipset, that's one of the fastest that can support the voodoo 5, so try to use one of those with the fatest cpu you can get for it
Wow, it sounds like your 1.4GHz Tualatin had a serious manufacturing defect. It probably started overheating because the integrated heat spreader lost it's adhesion to the die. The fact that it came off when you pulled the heatsink was just a secondary effect.
Hehe, you know me so well, gotta love top of the line stuff. ;p nice video!
what capture card do you use to capture that crystal clear game footage?
I now have one of these, with a QDI Advance 10T motherboard :)
What a piece of beautiful hardware !!! On my first pc i had a p3 at 600MHz but i was too young to understand which model it was... nice processor which gave me hundreds hours of playing games
The first time I built a Tualatin 1.4GHz and put a reasonable graphics card in it (Geforce 2 MX I think), I was blown away. I actually built computers for a living back in the day, and I just don't remember anything that smooth at the time.
Sounds niice, except for the GF 2 MX. That card was never reasonable :D
It seems ok. Are you sure you aren't thinking of the TNT2 M64? The GeForce 2 MX 400 was not top of the line. But it is way better than what I had back in the day!
Geforce 2 MX was the most rebranded video card ever until the Geforce 8800 series, and then AMD R9 290x (which is still planned for another re-release as the RX 580X!)
The pentium III had a flat cooler? I had/have an athlon XP with exposed die, and had a cooler with a hole to put the die (not totally flat).
These really good videos and stuff, what would like with these era of gaming, if you would not be better off going with one of more common Athlon xp cpu you would find around early 2000s?
Phil: Prices are not out of the window yet.
Prices: Hold my beer.
I had a P3 1GHz back in the day, and it was a beast at the time. Being a student I was looking for a budget option to upgrade, and the prospect of just swapping out the CPU was appealing, but my Via chipset motherboard wasn't compatible with the Tualatin processors. Clearly the P4 was the way Intel was going, but P4 motherboards and CPUs commanded a pretty hefty price premium, so I just ended up going with an AMD Athlon XP 1900+ thoroughbred. My next upgrade was an Athlon 64, but I did eventually get a P4, which was a cast-off from a friend's upgrade.
Got to check out AMD on a more period correct board, like with SD-RAM or early DDR, usually I use a modern KT600 board.
Got to love Taulatin CPUs
I got a pin-modded Tully 1400 in my Compaq Deskpro with i815 chipset. It's a great cpu, and makes for an awesome year 2000ish system.
The open air computer case at 0:40. Did you make that or can it be purchased?
I didn't hear it mentioned but the Tualatin seems to have gotten rid of the ISA slot. You can still use the P3 1100 and 1000 in a slot configuration with converter board and keep an ISA video card. I don't see the perf being a big deal, everything on the highest non P3-S works great.
Yea with Intel chipsets, basically no ISA with Socket 370. But VIA has you covered!
i still have my first pc that has a 1Ghz tualatin celeron on it and a AOpen MX3S-T. i got it from my school at the time, no idea why they threw it out. it was fine and they were still using that model. but hey i finally could play better games and this was somewhere around the year 2003-2005 or so.
a friend of min has a re-capped abit bp6 with a couple of the 1.4ghz celeron Tualatin chips in adapters, water cooled, and overclocked as far as the chip would go(the board will do 165mhz fsb with the other chips we have put in it...that were replaced...
its genuinely amazing for its era... destroys any pentium-d you compare it to...
the cpus and adapters cost him a good bit, but...he wanted to try it and the site that sold him the combo guariteed it would work.. they had the p3 full version but suggested the celeron ver since it wasnt much dif, if i remember correctly the only dif in the case of the models he got, was fsb being 100 by default rather then 133... but 1.4ghz by default so higher default multi....heh...
these were sort of like the k6-3 of its day... you didnt see them for sale alot... but people who had them loved them... (i had a few friends with the k6-3 that got 600-650 out of them...one of our friends removed the lid and made a shim at his fathers work... he got 750 out of his using a swiftech cooler.... the risk of breaking a core was high...he killed 2 k6-2 before getting the shim correct...
The Tualatin was always expensive and hard to find even new. Motherboard compatibility was a problem as well. I had the P3 1Ghz and it worked well for years until I went to the P4 Prescott. Totally skipped the Willamette because the Prescott kept my room warmer in the Winter time. lol
how come you didn't test it against the obvious? atlhon 1.4ghz
[edit] well i guess it loses to the atlhon since i used to get 11k 3dmarks 2001 with mine and an overclocked ti4400 that was a bit a tiny bit slower than a stock ti4600
Once again Phil, You're a fount of knowledge. (PS: I wish modern CPUs would come with out the IHS. Problem is they won't take the risk of some idiot breaking the chip.)
I'm using an AOpen ax6bc 440bx board with a Tualatin 1.4 in a modified adapter. Probably wasn't worth the cost when I could build a P4 or XP system for half the price but like you say, there's something about having the best of an era.
Also Tualatin 1.2 GHz is much faster than coppermine 1 GHz?
I just set up a computer with a 933MHz Coppermine PIII. I wonder how it would compare in terms of performance.
Looking to buy one of these, with a gigabyte motherboard that still has ISA slot so I can use as a DOS machine as well.
I've had no luck with the Abit-VH6T on the P3 Tualatin 1.4ghz, only recognises the 1.1 sadly.
the p3s in dual with the adapters that, at one time where no hard to find, was an amazing setup.. overclocked the celeron version on the dual board for a buddy... man that thing was fast... hes still got it..the celeron had full cache just limited to 100mhz fsb..pushed it to 150mhz(the board would do 155 max before the chipset got balky...nice board, we re-capped that board before rebuilding the system from dual 466 celerons at 1ghz, to dual 1.4g celerons (but that had full cache just default to 100mhz bus...and it was a matched set even) anyway... my god for the day, it destroyed the p4 and p-d in every way... even overclocked it produced less heat.. LOL...)
still trying to get my hands on 1500MHz P3...to later OC up to 2Ghz...sounds like fun isnt it?
I never got, and never will, get the appeal of overclocking old hardware :(
The first system I overclocked had an 80486 DX 25Mhz. Saw a jumper on the motherboard that switched between 25Mhz and 33Mhz fsb. Swapped it over to 33Mhz and was instantly hooked on overclocking.
Pretty much every system I have ever built since then has been overclocked. Most of my current retro machines are not overclocked, but the ones I want to overclock are.. such as my Socket-A system. Abit KT7A motherboard with custom BIOS to support the Barton Mobile CPUs that is overclocked to 2.4Ghz.
Overclocking is fun.. and with retro stuff it is fun to not only be able to overclock the snot out of some hardware, but also be able to underclock as well as use other speed limiting settings so you can run a really large range of games, some of which are speed sensitive.
YUP YUP YUP YUP YUP YUP YUP YUP YUP YUP YUP YUP YUP YUP YUP YUP YUP YUP YUP YUP
YEP
Still works to this very day!
It would be nice to see a test of Tualatin PIII-S 1400MHz on motherboards with different chipsets like: i440BX / i815 / i820 / VIA 694T / ALiM1651T / SiS630ET. My guess is that intel 440BX would win that competition ;)
I was going through my old scrap pc's that I collect.. because well for this reason.. found a duel Pentium 3-s machine thing was pulled out a dumpster if I remember right pretty cool!!
I just bought a 1.4 Ghz PIII and am looking to get a quieter cooler. I am currently using a stock PIII cooler, but it is way too loud. I searched for the Arctic Cooling Copper Silent 3 that you used, but it appears to be out of stock in the USA. Can you recommend any other similar quiet Tualatin-friendly coolers? Thanks.
I had a 1.2 GHz Tualatin Celeron to upgrade from my Pentium II 300Mhz cpu.
I purchased the Celeron together with a slot cassette adapter so it could fit into the slot of a Pentium 2.
My PC came to life again in a crazy way! Best CPU upgrade ever. Well, maybe together with my Kingston upgrade chip which was based on the AMD 5x86-133 Mhz cpu, to upgrade my Intel 486-66 Mhz cpu. That was also one bloody good upgrade.
Sigh, where are the days...
So the corsair vs450 psu has enough power on the 5 and 3.3 line?
Im having a real problem finding a good psu for my intel815aae motherboard.
It only has one 20pin for power.
I would love a retro psu guide video.
Pentium 3 should work with any half-decent modern PSU! VS450 should work just fine.
@@philscomputerlab
Ok so
Win98se
P3 933mhz (1.4ghz later)
Geforce 4400t 128mb
40gb ide hdd
512mb ram
Cd rom ide drive
Sb live! 5.1
And a few fans ofc.
I hear alot of talk about the psu power standard changing around 2002?
And the focus went away from the 5v and 3.3v rails to 12v rail.
I understand there should be some truth too this claim but maybe for more power hungry hardware then?
Could you shine some light on this for me and the rest of us.
I see there are others who wonder aswell when i do google searches.
In memory timings, CL2 stands for CAS latency 2.
I got two PIII 1.4S for £3 ($4 in today's money) each back in 2010, but without coolers of course. I have a Zalman CNPS6000-CU all copper cooler on it. It overclocks reliably in an ASUS TUSL2-C motherboard at 1.7GHz and approx 155MHz FSB. Brilliant CPU and a classic?
Great video 👍
Very interesting. Is it to fast for Win 3.11? (For Workgroups?).
Awsome video as allways :D
I like collecting these parts as I like to tinker with these old machines and there is a seller on ebay in the US selling these cpu's for $18.99US with free shipping and has 10 available..
Oh man. I had one of these on an Abit BH6 with a custom BIOS that would support it, and a Radeon 9800 XT as well as a GeForce FX 5950 Ultra to swap between. (Spoiler alert: 9800XT whupped the 5950U).
Dear Phil!
I finally built my retro pc following your excellent videos!
But on the start up screen my PIII is recognized as 1GHz rather than 1.4 My purchase was a PIIIs Tualatin 1.4GHz on ebay and my Mb is an ASUS TUSL2 with the Intel 815 chip. Is there a fixable reason or did they send me the wrong CPU?
Thanxxxxxx
Cool stuff! Hope you will someday do a dedicated P3 1Ghz/1.1Ghz copermine build with 815 like chip-set to see what can we achieve (max) from such an affordable system (still) .. What GPU is the best for such system etc etc :)
Those Coppermine Celerons actually weren't bad at all... When compared to the Coppermine P3 anyway. It was all about overclocking it, getting that half cache to operate twice as fast, along with a much higher overall clock. It was pretty common back then to have them getting P3 numbers. Which of course caused me to buy an Abit VP6 dual socket 370 board back then, ran two FCPGA Coppermine Celerons to start... Peltier cooled, then water cool TEC.... A whole additional tower sat beside the full tower case and was nothing but ATX power supplies wired together inside, with a harness coming out to run the water-cooling system, TEC's, fans, etc.... Until later on in the systems life, when I swapped the Celerons out for actual Coppermine P3's, then overclocked those with the same coolers... BUT, now without the second PSU tower, and with a stand alone bench-top 12VDC power supply... Just a black unit with an illuminated orange switch. The CPU's ran below zero most of the time, creating ice around the sockets and such. Never an issue though, was my daily computer and gaming rig, was just what I did back then. But I fondly recall this era.... My favorite era really. I did have a BP6 mobo prior to this set up, which ran two regular 370's ... The VP6 was the FC-PGA 370... which is what the Coppermine chips used, though folks seem to just refer to it as a "370", the actual socket 370 came before... And that BP6 had two of them, with a 440BX chipset which Abit somehow worked SMP out on... Using Windows 2000, which was just in time for all of this, was ideal... It was an NT based OS, so it knew how to use more than one CPU, and waaaay before multi core cpu's, or hyper-threading... I had a task manager that showed me two CPU charts... Was great. Had that working with two original socket 370 Celerons, which changed throughout the systems life, also TEC cooled, then water cooled. That whole cooling system began with the right before the BP6 actually, and then grew to a dual system for it... and lasted all the way thought the VP6 life... Years of service, with a home made water cooling kit that cooled thermal electric coolers... Which had a transmission cooler for the radiator, mounted to the top of a custom made full tower case, which was painted bright yellow with black accents... automotive paint, HVLP sprayed. Had the rad mounted up top with a CNC machined grille setup... It was nice. This whole time period was just the best time to be doing this stuff. Before it was all able to be store bought and slapped together by any 8 year old kid with just a Best Buy in the mix. The ingenuity, the wild ideas and executions. The hardware. This is why I like your channel as well, you have a way of allowing me to relive most of this era, and to play with hardware I never had... in a way, anyway. So keep it up man, you've got quite a good thing happening here.
Yea I agree, the Coppermine Celerons are very decent!
I just ordered a dual socket tualatin server motherboard with 2 GB RAM and two of these 1.4 ghz P3s. Dual CPU Tualatin... curious how Windows 7 runs on that.
win 7 doesnt run too bad if you have a gpu that has desktop acceleration (aero). ofc you can forget modern programs but that applies to every OS.
I have 1 of these running on a regular socket 370 Asus server board with an adapter on the back of them with stock 370 cooler. No special mobo or coolers needed. Found them cheep on eBay. Motherboard doesn't list them in supported cpu but that's because they won't fit in regular 370 socket without adapter plate installed. Runs fine even has lower vcore voltage.