I think this and the last video would be helpful in understanding some basics. I get that it may have been a little too abstract but we will take a look at some case examples where we will see how we can apply the stuff covered in these videos. Thanks for watching :)
Thanks for the encouragement! I sometimes wonder if with the little time left I should try making these videos or just use that time to play tt myself, but comments like yours give me just that little push to at least finish the video ideas I've started
Another interesting thing is that if the ball rebounds at an angle (instead of straight) from the incoming spin, then the outgoing ball will have no spin. So if a topspin ball hits your bat and flies up (because your bat was open), all the spin on the ball is gone and was just converted into the tangential force that made the ball go up. Similarly, if you keep your bat closed and contact the ball at an angle to match the spin, so that the ball goes forward and on the table, most topspin in the ball will be preserved and returned back to the opponent.
Note that this happens if you hold your bat still. If you do go forward and drive through the ball, the physics of the rubber kicks in, where the topsheet wraps around the ball, acts like a spring and reverses the spin on the ball (so the incoming topspin is reversed and sent back to the opponent, as topspin from his point of view).
@@XCSme Although I agree with your observations, in my head, any relative difference in speed gives that tangential force, and that will impart some speed to the centre of mass of the ball, but as for the spin, it could either be strong enough to reverse the spin or weak such that the ball spin slower but in the same direction. I feel this way of thinking about it is slightly different from the spin getting converted into tangential force. Thanks for sharing this observation!
@@XCSme Thanks a lot for sharing. This was really cool! I've always wanted to observe tt in close using a slo mo camera but haven't got the budget. This video was a nice glimpse of what could be observed.
@@drupepong There's also this video/channel, but it doesn't include inverted rubber (only anti/pips) from what I've found: th-cam.com/video/43WWRf5yW6M/w-d-xo.html
This is also explains why when you start putting a ton of top spin on a side spin ball, that the direction vector of the spins add and the side spin gets small enough to not matter much anymore.
And by the same logic if you overshoot the spin of incoming ball the tangent force would be backwards so the ball goes even slower or maybe not? Maybe additional tangent force goes into the spin of the ball?
The minimum value of tangent force you could apply would be 0. So if you overshoot then you are applying tangential force but just in the opposite direction. So that would not make the ball go slower. The additional tangent force would add some spin as well as speed to the ball. Another thing to remember is that while we are doing all this the normal part of the force has not really changed.
Hi Drupe, i think i ve been receiving backspin serve with this delayed short receive, very very early at the bounce, and always opponents throw the ball out of the table thinking that the ball has backspin but it is a deadball
Oh right! I think I know what's happening, I don't think the reasoning is similar to the example in this video though. I'll make a video about it later.
If i understand correctly the receive does not actually make the ball less spiny but it does make impossible to spin to turn speed by reducing friction so the ball goes slower.
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I think this and the last video would be helpful in understanding some basics. I get that it may have been a little too abstract but we will take a look at some case examples where we will see how we can apply the stuff covered in these videos. Thanks for watching :)
So excited for this keep up
man I really appreciate your work and effort you are the only person on youtube to speak about these details
keep up the good work
Thanks for the encouragement!
I sometimes wonder if with the little time left I should try making these videos or just use that time to play tt myself, but comments like yours give me just that little push to at least finish the video ideas I've started
Wow, I'm sooo invested in these!
Another interesting thing is that if the ball rebounds at an angle (instead of straight) from the incoming spin, then the outgoing ball will have no spin. So if a topspin ball hits your bat and flies up (because your bat was open), all the spin on the ball is gone and was just converted into the tangential force that made the ball go up.
Similarly, if you keep your bat closed and contact the ball at an angle to match the spin, so that the ball goes forward and on the table, most topspin in the ball will be preserved and returned back to the opponent.
Note that this happens if you hold your bat still. If you do go forward and drive through the ball, the physics of the rubber kicks in, where the topsheet wraps around the ball, acts like a spring and reverses the spin on the ball (so the incoming topspin is reversed and sent back to the opponent, as topspin from his point of view).
@@XCSme Although I agree with your observations, in my head, any relative difference in speed gives that tangential force, and that will impart some speed to the centre of mass of the ball, but as for the spin, it could either be strong enough to reverse the spin or weak such that the ball spin slower but in the same direction.
I feel this way of thinking about it is slightly different from the spin getting converted into tangential force.
Thanks for sharing this observation!
@@drupepong th-cam.com/video/LFp78dMr3Rk/w-d-xo.html Check this at 0:30, if the bat is still, the ball always come back dead.
@@XCSme Thanks a lot for sharing. This was really cool! I've always wanted to observe tt in close using a slo mo camera but haven't got the budget.
This video was a nice glimpse of what could be observed.
@@drupepong There's also this video/channel, but it doesn't include inverted rubber (only anti/pips) from what I've found: th-cam.com/video/43WWRf5yW6M/w-d-xo.html
I enjoyed the Timo Boll example!
Yay!
This is also explains why when you start putting a ton of top spin on a side spin ball, that the direction vector of the spins add and the side spin gets small enough to not matter much anymore.
Exactly! I was thinking of making a video on the same
And by the same logic if you overshoot the spin of incoming ball the tangent force would be backwards so the ball goes even slower or maybe not? Maybe additional tangent force goes into the spin of the ball?
The minimum value of tangent force you could apply would be 0. So if you overshoot then you are applying tangential force but just in the opposite direction. So that would not make the ball go slower. The additional tangent force would add some spin as well as speed to the ball.
Another thing to remember is that while we are doing all this the normal part of the force has not really changed.
Hi Drupe, i think i ve been receiving backspin serve with this delayed short receive, very very early at the bounce, and always opponents throw the ball out of the table thinking that the ball has backspin but it is a deadball
Oh right! I think I know what's happening, I don't think the reasoning is similar to the example in this video though. I'll make a video about it later.
If i understand correctly the receive does not actually make the ball less spiny but it does make impossible to spin to turn speed by reducing friction so the ball goes slower.
Yeah kinda, friction would only act if there is some relative movement between the bat and the ball.