Magyars are really nice for having Arbalester, Paladin, Hussars, and Cav Archers. They have a great late game tech tree. One of my favorite civ's and I love to see them succeed
Not sure how Indian number 1 is any surprise. Your teammates archers FORCE heavy cavalry, which you then shredd with camels. Thats the big difference to 1v1 games: Your opponents actually have to build cav, making your strong camels just a lot more valuable.
Yeah I don't get why that was a surprice. I was already expecting to see either indians or khmer at number 1 (I'm still confused as to why khmer aren't in the top tho). Indians have been THE TG civilization since the day they came out. It was even the best civ in 1v1 too when they had arbalests. Indians aren't only a paladin counter, their camels have more hp and attack plus the extra proyectile armor, AND they can tear buildings down really fast. Mix that with some great monks and siege and a tech for hand cannoneers and they get the perfect combo for the mid to late game, which they don't strugle at all to reach because of their great economy
Magyars do really well not because they're so strong, but b/c if your teammate goes random civ or doesn't communicate early, Magyars are the only civ that can go Fully Upgraded Arbs or Palladin
Camel Units specially Imperial Camels are one of the most undervalued units of age of empires. They melt paladins and they are cheaper. Plus they can still run away from most of their counters, unlike pikemen.
@@Alche_mist If you pair Saracens team bonus with a Mayans player going for Obsidian Arrows tech, oh boy you've never seen buildings melt that fast to archer fire. It's truly nuts, no need for siege
@@mattender8323 Rolf they literally have the most options on the game available. The only thing they got missing is archers, but then replace them with gunpowder in late imp.
Goths might be lower on the list because Arabia maps tend to be pretty open, making it easier for multiple players to focus down an enemy Goth player before they can get started.
also they don't have access to stone walls so their walling in general can be cumbersome if they're in a pinch. You need to guarantee that you can go late game and boom, in order to reach your main strengths - because their dark age advantage means less when it's a team game and the enemy can help out each other, so that early pressure is just gonna set yourself back even further.
@@tussiversace i feel like an idiot lol at first i thought it was a joke but the replies are talking about nerfs so then I thought I might've missed something, thats why i asked
My guess is that India gains a boost not only from how they counter most of the paladin-heavy civs in the top 5, but they also get 10% more gold from all sources during the late-game. With trade being available on a team, that can snowball into an endless gold troop spam. My go-to in team games is Spanish for similar reasons. Tons of bonus gold (though mine comes faster than India's), fast gunpowder units to support my enemy's front-line, with at least access to Paladins, villagers more resilient to raiding, and monks to help counter enemy Paladins. It gives me several ways to be useful, both economically and militarily. I can find a way to complement almost any army, and I help them fund it.
Repost: Would you consider to do a "How to counter" series? For example "how to counter aztecs" with each of the other civilizations and maybe map's specifics strategies?
Indians are one of my favourite civs because of their camels. I'm honestly a bit tired of the knight line still being the go-to strategy since the original release. I can't imagine playing Age of Kings where camels took bonus damage, halberdiers didnt exist and bloodlines didnt exist to narrow the gap between frank paladins and everyone else's. This game has dozens of different units but knights are still the meta unit in most cases. This is why I prefer long games on maps like black forest, where out thinking your opponent is more important than simply who can get their knights out first. Does mean that its very easy to ruin another player's day by picking a camel civ like saracens, berbers, malians or indians though :)
Seeing the title I was just wondering maybe my favoutite civ - Indians might at least get an honorable mention in this video. Totally surprised to see them #1. I use Indians the exact same way as SOTL assumed. And am way higher team rated than I should be based on skill. Awesome video. Keep it coming
@@Bambabah Well I always felt they are a great civ but since everyone says they are bad civ its obvious my opinion is low elo. Honestly easy boom into camels is one of the best pocket civs I think
Also, Camels can really surprise. I once had my entire base razed in under a minute by 30 camels. I was not prepared. I was building my army in my ally's base.
part of what makes indians dominant in team games is trade; the imperial camel has a very short respawn time, and trade gold makes this a much greater benefit
Todays meta its cavalry. And archers just in big groups. Anyway, i was thinking in a video. It talks about when you should pick a fight and when you shouldnt. Example, 3 militia against 3 vills with loom, 8 archers against 3 scouts, how many scorps against crossbow, how many camels can fight against knights, etc.. those common situations on arabia or land maps. Thanks a lot, as always!
I'm not sure about using chi-square statistic for BIG sample sizes because of its tendency to significance as the sample size grows up...but I totally buy all the analysis. Keep it up GrandMaster SOTL!
6:58 Viking is good at late game? *Fatslob* approved this xD I actually was expecting Indians to be number 1 because cavalries... So to counter them... *_Go Japanese!_*
@@satyakisil9711 Look at the 1650+ ELO range LOL. That's what I expected. There's such a massive difference between lower skill levels (where the majority is in) and the higher tiers. So looking stats like this across all ELO ranges has very limited usefulness.
@@mattender8323 Any halb civ is better than aztecs against mass cavalry. The halb bonus against cav is much greater than a pike + garland wars and unless you are a micro god you are not stopping 50 paladins with monks. Slavs and japanese halbs are the best in this case.
Nice video and nice analysis, as usual. Love your content, keep up! I just wanted to point out that this is raw statistic data, but does not take into account the civilization bonuses working together. I mean, mayans team game win ratio may be boosted if it is combined with sarracens (due to obsidian arrows + sarracens team bonus) but it might be lower if combined with other civs. I guess is too difficult to analyze data in this terms, but it would be interesting to take it into consideration as there are really neet synergies out there.
Isn’t another part of it for the Indians the Sultans tech giving them more gold from trade? Combine the strong Camels with faster unlimited gold production.
I would love to see a video on a fishing boom on maps with near water and fish. Very interested in the build order and math behind it especially in your style!
So as a suggestion for a video down the line, how about you take a look and analyze the win rate differences between the best and worst civs of AOE1DE, AOE2DE, and AOE3DE, if enough data is available? I'd love to see how each game stacks up in terms of the win rate and usage differences between the best/most used and worst/least used civilizations.
Wow, the switch from HD to DE really killed the Spanish in team games. What was considered an autowin if the trade was untouched for the Spanish team now sits at 46.43%. To some regard I feel they've deserved the nerf to the conqs having weakness to skirms, but on the other hand seeing a major pick from most team tournaments back in the past is kinda sad.
Conqs are also worse vs vills now but what really kills them is that this is an Arabia list. Trade doesn't really matter in arabia games as a team has effectively won by the time one player hits castle in most games. Getting a castle up means you can't start making units till after you hit castle AND get a castle up and then your production is gated by said castle.
Makes wanna see a "Camels in the current state of the game" - video even more! Are they worth it compared to pikes? How cost effective are they vs Knights/Chevs/Palas? Or are they just a niche unit useful vs Cab Archers? Since we already got something similar for Hand Cs it would be quite interesting imo :D
Just now Sarasens kikcks Mayans out and made themselves No.4. And at high-elo Celts also kicks out Goths. It's really interesting that it can have so much changes
No mention of Indians team bonus applying to Berbers Camel Archers!? It's basically Obsidian Arrows for mounted (fast) units that can also shred cavalry - insane. It's not super applicable to strictly winrates and this video but a very nice combo to try in team games!
Official Microsoft mod for completing challenges in the Greatest Medieval Technologies event earlier this year. No longer available to achieve I think.
I like that one of my fav civ are in the honorable mention, even if its just for the free upgrade. I still think a berserker army charge is hard to stop even with cavaly and archer XD
Vikings usually plays a different role on tg Arabia. You often play flank with archers. So it's not until you get to imperial you might switch to berserk. Normally I would have arbalest and siege rams in early imp.
I think the Indians are good because they have time to boom in pocket, which is what their eco bonus is geared towards, and since they can go FC into camels, with extra PA to be at least archer resistant they can shut down enemy pockets and take the game.
Indians are top because most people go to game is cavalry which cost tons of ur resources. Camels cost much less and good counter for cavelry. Plus economic benefits are good for early game.
He neither has close as much experience with AoE DE or AoE3 DE as with AoE2 DE, so making guides about something you don't know (he even mentioned it on his last AoE3 DE teaser related vid that he only knows to pick japanese and spam shrines everywhere) doesn't really make sense.
@@Flavourius you're right though i admit id love to see some civ overviews for aoe3. Combining one of my favourite games with one of my favourite yt channels :)
Probably more the fact that they are one of two civs not having access to xbow. Spanish flank is one of the very worst flanks you can have, and if some people go random, that will prob lead to them having relativly bad winrates. Conqs nerf shouldn't matter too much, since skirms are never an option in team games
@@epicnoob8539 I wouldnt say their knights are bad tho. They are fully upgraded throughout the ages, and have a team bonus to keep up production, namely the trade bonus. If anything, the Spanish have a strong cavarly.
@@unimportantcommenter4356 That's fair, calling them bad is harsh. But the main factors when picking civs for team games is early eco and late game power. Conqs/generic paladins/gunpowder/monks is an outright inferior unit comp to any of the other civs in the top 5, except maybe Mayans, which have a very different playstyle. The trade bonus is nice, but doesn't end up mattering in the late game where army control and composition are more important than economy. They don't really have any early game eco boosts except the trash blacksmith upgrades. They're still a great civ and I love playing them, but I'm not surprised they're not top tier for TGs.
I think the main reason for Indians winning in a team game is they can keep producing Gold Intensive units like Camels, EA and hand cannoneers which would be nearly impossible to sustain in a normal game.
Hey Spirit, Indians aren't below average in 1vs1 Arabia... Last year, when you first put out best 1vs1 civs, Indians were 9th ranked, just below your honorable mentions which ended at 8th. I too was shocked about Lithuanians but if you think, it makes sense. Access to trade doesn't increase their strengths in late game. The Leitis is cheap as always, and their 2nd strength is trash units. I don't know if their faster working monasteries get play in team games due to presence of scouts/archers from other opponents as well. Their infantry and siege is just lacking. Also their HCA are average too.
In retrospect, you're probably right that Indians aren't below average in 1v1, though 9th sounds pretty high to me. I based that remark on the win rate by patch show here: aoestats.io/civ/Indians/RM_1v1 Looked to me like they were hanging between 49-50% win rate the last little while, though I didn't pull the actual numbers to check how that stacks up. Agreed that Lithuanian's trash and Leitis are more valuable in 1v1 than team games.
@@SpiritOfTheLaw I think Sultan tech is way more overpowered then you think. Once researched, you will get 10% increase in any sources. Relics, gold mines, trade etc.
@Saurav Tripathi The thing about filtering by 1650+ elo in the current patch is the small sample size. Indians have the 6th lowest in play rate for Arabia 1v1. If they're a top 5 1v1 civ why would 1650+ players not have realized that and play them more often?
I'd really like to hear SOTL's usual in-depth take on this. I do understand that for a decent sample size we need all ELOs but at lower ELO the CIV probably makes little to no difference at all. The play in the below 1000 and 1000-1250 ELO ranges (lowest two brackets of the data he goes off) is so sub-optimal that the specific CIV would be only a small factor. It doesn't seem fair to include games where players don't really know what strengths and weaknesses the CIVs have (below 1k, and to a lesser degree 1000-1250) or how to play them. A decent example of that might be the Chinese, who are really flexible and have strong options everywhere but probably no single overpowering one. With their tricky start, their win rate goes from an awful 45% win rate for below 1k ELO players gradually up to 52% for the 1650+ players. Meaning for a skilled player it's an above-average CIV. For a noob, it's one to avoid. Another example of it not being relevant for low ELO players is the Italian CIV. For the 1000+ players, it's 43-45% win rate on 1v1 arabia. For the below 1k players it's 77% (though tiny sample size). Whether it's possible to divide CIVs into a top 5 for beginners and top 5 for intermediate and top 5 for pros might be a decent way of doing it - because lumping all CIVs together just has too many variables to be a fair comparison. And including data sets where there wasn't a big buff to a CIV might help with sample size. It also leaves a decent amount of room for opinion too and that's where your analysis and opinion would be interesting. Using the data as a benchmark, and then explaining any anomaly or putting in some context there, e.g. if a CIV typically won when partnered with another CIV. That'd be really interesting too - cross-referencing the wins of the CIVS. Does Khmer win rate increase when partnered with a Celt ally? Or Saracens with Mayans? Or Aztec and Brumese, etc.? Which are the most powerful combinations - as it's team games, the synergy would be the most important part rather than who is just the best individual team game civ. Either way, always good to watch your vids and nerd out on this stuff :)
@@Halvtooth Actually as far as I know, Sultan tech increases gold by 10% from Any source. Like Gold Mines, relics, and trading. Which means you can collect gold from anywhere with 10% increase as long as you are collecting gold. Spanish get 33% more gold from trade only. Which is why they are weak if your trade line is attacked which is pretty easy since Arabia map is just open flat surface
spanish not in the top 5 is really surprising to me two things that make indians so good for teamgames that u didnt mention are 1. the vil discount that u did mention enables them that in case one player on each team gets killed and have to reboom.. indian has an ez reboom to do 2. u said yourself that typically the pocket players go for cavalry..... so having some of the best camls in the game seems a viable counterplay in the typical match
I have found Huns Franks and Japanese will always win as long as the franks get a knight rush off that is semi successful. Huns help the franks with 20% boosts to the stables. I can get 6 knights in the time I usually get 5, and then I fall back and let the Japanese eliminate all the trash and special units they send while upgrading to paladins
@@StealthySpace7 I think this is best Byz Turks Chinese Indians..Some best bombard towers, Hand cannoners, monk heals, Camels with mix hussars[turks free plus 1armor]Jannisary.. China archers Cavaliers in mix..El Archers, Byz Cheap skrimishers...Classic paladins too many counters..Also mix of 10 Catapracts 10 ByzCamels cheaper than 20Pala With strong back monk heal
I had a feeling Indians would get it. They are so sick from the pocket and just cancel out the opponents' knight line. Sultans is also important, in my experience, with successful team games as Indians, the trade and relic gold rolls in so much faster so your transition to super-late game is very smooth.
@Emre Vural The one pierce armour that Indians get is more useful than cheaper camels as they would get destroyed by crossbow/ Arbs without it. Also, in team games trash units are rarely used as trade is available and raids are also done with gold units.
@Emre Vural +5 vs building is far from useless, can take out production buildings so much faster, and the extra pierce armor makes them TC killers. I like Berbers, but imperial camels are in a whole other ballpark.
@ Spirit Of The Law. Are Japanese still your favorite Civilization? From what I gather, you seem very fond of (Siege) Onagers? What about Ethiopians, do you like those?
![Megan Thee Stallion - Neva Play (feat. RM) [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/TpYTyAaTRts/mqdefault.jpg)
Seeing AOE2 here makes me feel better after seeing all these awful "Rise of Empires" ads all over the web....freakin' rip offs.
Exactly its soo annoying
Its only the name, its not like AoE lol
Some games aren't even RTS, just a trash Mobile Games
@@somekindoflatindude9497 That... doesn't make it better lol
I thought I was the only one. Fuck those guys
I know we were all thinking that the Spanish would be number one.
But they are not even on this list.
I guess no one expected the Spanish Exclusion
Nobody expect indian curries.
The best part of this joke is that Monty Python would approve of this clever word-play.
truth
That surprised me, that they are even not on the list.
yeah for their tema bonus pruely i expcted them
Magyars are really nice for having Arbalester, Paladin, Hussars, and Cav Archers. They have a great late game tech tree. One of my favorite civ's and I love to see them succeed
Not sure how Indian number 1 is any surprise. Your teammates archers FORCE heavy cavalry, which you then shredd with camels. Thats the big difference to 1v1 games: Your opponents actually have to build cav, making your strong camels just a lot more valuable.
How do camels do against Eagles
@@lazthegreat10 they do decent
Yeah I don't get why that was a surprice. I was already expecting to see either indians or khmer at number 1 (I'm still confused as to why khmer aren't in the top tho). Indians have been THE TG civilization since the day they came out. It was even the best civ in 1v1 too when they had arbalests.
Indians aren't only a paladin counter, their camels have more hp and attack plus the extra proyectile armor, AND they can tear buildings down really fast. Mix that with some great monks and siege and a tech for hand cannoneers and they get the perfect combo for the mid to late game, which they don't strugle at all to reach because of their great economy
I guess a very OP combo might be Indian Camels + Hunic Cav.Arch. with the team bonus for stables :) Never tried this with a friend though ...
@@reclutacontramontina5354 the +5 attack against buildings kinda goes off if your opponent has masonry
Magyars do really well not because they're so strong, but b/c if your teammate goes random civ or doesn't communicate early, Magyars are the only civ that can go Fully Upgraded Arbs or Palladin
Spirit of the Law is the channel that makes me always want to click the video. I love this channel.
Camel Units specially Imperial Camels are one of the most undervalued units of age of empires. They melt paladins and they are cheaper. Plus they can still run away from most of their counters, unlike pikemen.
They cost gold
Missing their weakness right there, and pikemen rip them to shreds
@@jonahdervin7233 you do realize trade is key to victory in TGs?
@@jonahdervin7233 and thats where the strong Indian handcannoneers or your team mates come into play
It's amazing you have more suscribers than there are actual players on AOE2.
I love his videos, and loved AoE2 back in the day. I don't play anymore but his videos let me keep an eye on my old hobby :)
@@yaroslavbolotov7653 Same for me :)
@@armanddemaupertuis1967 That makes us three already. Was thinking to maybe get back into playing thanks to all those amazing vids.
@@f.c.laukhard3623 me too
Same and this channel made me buy DE
*Clicks video*
*Immediately pauses video*
*Inhale*
ITALIANS
F
:(
Did you combine this name and profile pic to trigger OCD? ;)
@Emre Vural Yes, I remember him as well. Thanks for the info though. :)
You missed “Civ has an exploitable weakness that another civ can cover” and “Might have an amazing team bonus a la the Saracens” at the start
I love how the Saracen team bonus rised from meme to an actually considered upside of the civ.
Incas don't have such luck :-D
@@Alche_mist If you pair Saracens team bonus with a Mayans player going for Obsidian Arrows tech, oh boy you've never seen buildings melt that fast to archer fire. It's truly nuts, no need for siege
Camel archers + indian team bonus is also great, 11
Spain can't even get top 5 or an honorable mention in Team Games... We will rise up one day, Spain-chads.
Too much one-trick ponies.
@@mattender8323 one trick? cavalry; infantry; uniq unit; siege; navy; viable 7 tc rush;
@@catrielmarignaclionti4518 Not to forget the extremely lulzy Supremacy ^^
@@mattender8323 Rolf they literally have the most options on the game available. The only thing they got missing is archers, but then replace them with gunpowder in late imp.
Unless you are part of Suomi. Then it's free win. 11
Goths might be lower on the list because Arabia maps tend to be pretty open, making it easier for multiple players to focus down an enemy Goth player before they can get started.
also they don't have access to stone walls so their walling in general can be cumbersome if they're in a pinch. You need to guarantee that you can go late game and boom, in order to reach your main strengths - because their dark age advantage means less when it's a team game and the enemy can help out each other, so that early pressure is just gonna set yourself back even further.
In team games my only priority is to hit goths hardest so as to delay thier thier post imp as much as possible
13 gold champion cannot be allowed
The Indians are obviously number one because of their elephant archers. Can't believe you overlooked such an important factor spirit 🙄
🐘 🏹 need to cost more 💰
@@Ahmadabdal_ and be nerfed
Are you being sarcastic? Cause elephant archers are usually regarded as one of the worst units in the game
Luís Sampaio thats is the joke boi
@@tussiversace i feel like an idiot lol at first i thought it was a joke but the replies are talking about nerfs so then I thought I might've missed something, thats why i asked
My guess is that India gains a boost not only from how they counter most of the paladin-heavy civs in the top 5, but they also get 10% more gold from all sources during the late-game. With trade being available on a team, that can snowball into an endless gold troop spam.
My go-to in team games is Spanish for similar reasons. Tons of bonus gold (though mine comes faster than India's), fast gunpowder units to support my enemy's front-line, with at least access to Paladins, villagers more resilient to raiding, and monks to help counter enemy Paladins. It gives me several ways to be useful, both economically and militarily. I can find a way to complement almost any army, and I help them fund it.
Repost: Would you consider to do a "How to counter" series? For example "how to counter aztecs" with each of the other civilizations and maybe map's specifics strategies?
If you add a 0:00 timestamp it should make sections in the video, assuming that is something you wanted to do with the timestamps in description :)
I’m not a big fan of the sections myself, when trying to rewind the video it gets caught up in between and is pretty annoying
Indians: sultan tech shine with trade, also the elephant Archer Is More pop eficient than regular archer
Indian + Spanish + Turks = OP
Well Two Handed Swordsman, your VERY own comment paired with goths and Japanese destroys this combo (theoretically). The ITALIANS!
Two Handed Swordsman no one need turks11
Indians are one of my favourite civs because of their camels. I'm honestly a bit tired of the knight line still being the go-to strategy since the original release. I can't imagine playing Age of Kings where camels took bonus damage, halberdiers didnt exist and bloodlines didnt exist to narrow the gap between frank paladins and everyone else's. This game has dozens of different units but knights are still the meta unit in most cases. This is why I prefer long games on maps like black forest, where out thinking your opponent is more important than simply who can get their knights out first. Does mean that its very easy to ruin another player's day by picking a camel civ like saracens, berbers, malians or indians though :)
A similar Arena list would be great.
Seeing the title I was just wondering maybe my favoutite civ - Indians might at least get an honorable mention in this video. Totally surprised to see them #1. I use Indians the exact same way as SOTL assumed. And am way higher team rated than I should be based on skill. Awesome video. Keep it coming
You're surprised your broken Imp camels are slaughtering not just Paladins but even TC's barely breaking a sweat :D?
@@Bambabah Well I always felt they are a great civ but since everyone says they are bad civ its obvious my opinion is low elo. Honestly easy boom into camels is one of the best pocket civs I think
Also, Camels can really surprise. I once had my entire base razed in under a minute by 30 camels. I was not prepared. I was building my army in my ally's base.
part of what makes indians dominant in team games is trade; the imperial camel has a very short respawn time, and trade gold makes this a much greater benefit
I tried the Aztec and Byzantine team, that was really awesome.
If you watch any top level team game tournaments then the #1 team game civ won’t surprise you.
Todays meta its cavalry. And archers just in big groups.
Anyway, i was thinking in a video. It talks about when you should pick a fight and when you shouldnt. Example, 3 militia against 3 vills with loom, 8 archers against 3 scouts, how many scorps against crossbow, how many camels can fight against knights, etc.. those common situations on arabia or land maps. Thanks a lot, as always!
I'm not sure about using chi-square statistic for BIG sample sizes because of its tendency to significance as the sample size grows up...but I totally buy all the analysis. Keep it up GrandMaster SOTL!
6:58 Viking is good at late game?
*Fatslob* approved this xD
I actually was expecting Indians to be number 1 because cavalries...
So to counter them... *_Go Japanese!_*
Or Aztecs. They have no Heresy.
The Meta-Counter-Counter! Genius :D
Vikings with Berserk and Siege is a real headache.
@@satyakisil9711 Look at the 1650+ ELO range LOL. That's what I expected. There's such a massive difference between lower skill levels (where the majority is in) and the higher tiers. So looking stats like this across all ELO ranges has very limited usefulness.
@@mattender8323 Any halb civ is better than aztecs against mass cavalry. The halb bonus against cav is much greater than a pike + garland wars and unless you are a micro god you are not stopping 50 paladins with monks. Slavs and japanese halbs are the best in this case.
Great video, love seeing these civilization win rates and the explanations
Nice video and nice analysis, as usual. Love your content, keep up! I just wanted to point out that this is raw statistic data, but does not take into account the civilization bonuses working together. I mean, mayans team game win ratio may be boosted if it is combined with sarracens (due to obsidian arrows + sarracens team bonus) but it might be lower if combined with other civs. I guess is too difficult to analyze data in this terms, but it would be interesting to take it into consideration as there are really neet synergies out there.
Isn’t another part of it for the Indians the Sultans tech giving them more gold from trade? Combine the strong Camels with faster unlimited gold production.
Although i dont play this game cus im broke and have potato pc i enjoy your videos:)
OMG I wanted this for so long thx sotl
I only play arabia tm so this would be of great help
I would love to see a video on a fishing boom on maps with near water and fish. Very interested in the build order and math behind it especially in your style!
Now I want a video on the worst civilisations for Arabia Team Games ^^
The cav is no surprise. Getting into the Eco and raiding takes the edge.
8:56 I see that the University is energeticly exploring sciences and the truths of the universe.
What's the joke?
@@michaelandreipalon359 Referencing the vfx for uni tech research which was unlocked from an achievement
@@riseALK Ah, OK. Thanks.
What about the Inca and their faster building farms?!
Ikr they should totally change that team bonus xD
So as a suggestion for a video down the line, how about you take a look and analyze the win rate differences between the best and worst civs of AOE1DE, AOE2DE, and AOE3DE, if enough data is available? I'd love to see how each game stacks up in terms of the win rate and usage differences between the best/most used and worst/least used civilizations.
Would you consider making a video about if Genoese Crossbow's need a buff?
Wow, the switch from HD to DE really killed the Spanish in team games.
What was considered an autowin if the trade was untouched for the Spanish team now sits at 46.43%.
To some regard I feel they've deserved the nerf to the conqs having weakness to skirms, but on the other hand seeing a major pick from most team tournaments back in the past is kinda sad.
Conqs are also worse vs vills now but what really kills them is that this is an Arabia list. Trade doesn't really matter in arabia games as a team has effectively won by the time one player hits castle in most games. Getting a castle up means you can't start making units till after you hit castle AND get a castle up and then your production is gated by said castle.
The majority of the team games I play (2v2 only) end before more than a few carts are made so the spanish bonus doesn't do a whole in a lot of games.
@@MarcelVos commenting on a Spirit of the Law Video, what is this, a crossover episode?
Love your content man, really class
Makes wanna see a "Camels in the current state of the game" - video even more!
Are they worth it compared to pikes?
How cost effective are they vs Knights/Chevs/Palas?
Or are they just a niche unit useful vs Cab Archers?
Since we already got something similar for Hand Cs it would be quite interesting imo :D
They probably not more cost effective against paladins, but they have mobility and the ability to raid.
Camels aren't on the same level as the spear like vs Calvary but Calvary can easily run away from Halbs, Camels keep that pressure on them
Goths. No other. 100% winrate. Every time. Any time. Goths. Always.
Spam huskarls
Nope Bulgarians hard counters Goths
*laughs in Celts*
Just throw in some guys in jaguar pelts and laugh at goths. 😁
@@Nairolf7 awkward elephant archers noices
Just now Sarasens kikcks Mayans out and made themselves No.4. And at high-elo Celts also kicks out Goths. It's really interesting that it can have so much changes
No mention of Indians team bonus applying to Berbers Camel Archers!? It's basically Obsidian Arrows for mounted (fast) units that can also shred cavalry - insane.
It's not super applicable to strictly winrates and this video but a very nice combo to try in team games!
I love these types of videos!!!
Some of the new civs might be up there now.
This channel makes math look sexy.
I still watch videos for a game I don't play that's nostalgia
1:03 trebuchet spin
😂😂
8:56 those math symbols above the university are a mod?? I love it!!
Official Microsoft mod for completing challenges in the Greatest Medieval Technologies event earlier this year. No longer available to achieve I think.
Would love to see a video of top 5 defensive civilizations!
My opinion:
5. Incas
4. Chinese
3. Koreans
2. Byzantines
1. Teutons
I like that one of my fav civ are in the honorable mention, even if its just for the free upgrade. I still think a berserker army charge is hard to stop even with cavaly and archer XD
Vikings usually plays a different role on tg Arabia. You often play flank with archers. So it's not until you get to imperial you might switch to berserk. Normally I would have arbalest and siege rams in early imp.
do a vid covering the empire wars game mode?
I think the Indians are good because they have time to boom in pocket, which is what their eco bonus is geared towards, and since they can go FC into camels, with extra PA to be at least archer resistant they can shut down enemy pockets and take the game.
Indians are top because most people go to game is cavalry which cost tons of ur resources. Camels cost much less and good counter for cavelry. Plus economic benefits are good for early game.
Will you be covering aoe3 DE civs ? I feel like the release will bring many players and to be honest there isn't guides like yours.
He neither has close as much experience with AoE DE or AoE3 DE as with AoE2 DE, so making guides about something you don't know (he even mentioned it on his last AoE3 DE teaser related vid that he only knows to pick japanese and spam shrines everywhere) doesn't really make sense.
@@Flavourius you're right though i admit id love to see some civ overviews for aoe3. Combining one of my favourite games with one of my favourite yt channels :)
Are there enough samples to figure out which 4, 3 and 2 civs work best together?
Surprised Spanish didn't make it, I guess conq nerf hits really hard huh
Probably more the fact that they are one of two civs not having access to xbow. Spanish flank is one of the very worst flanks you can have, and if some people go random, that will prob lead to them having relativly bad winrates. Conqs nerf shouldn't matter too much, since skirms are never an option in team games
tbh team games dont see conqs being used unless it is regicide fortress
Conqs are powerful in castle age but really fall off in imp vs the the arb/paladin/siege armies. They don't even get xbows and their knights are bad.
@@epicnoob8539 I wouldnt say their knights are bad tho. They are fully upgraded throughout the ages, and have a team bonus to keep up production, namely the trade bonus. If anything, the Spanish have a strong cavarly.
@@unimportantcommenter4356 That's fair, calling them bad is harsh. But the main factors when picking civs for team games is early eco and late game power. Conqs/generic paladins/gunpowder/monks is an outright inferior unit comp to any of the other civs in the top 5, except maybe Mayans, which have a very different playstyle. The trade bonus is nice, but doesn't end up mattering in the late game where army control and composition are more important than economy. They don't really have any early game eco boosts except the trash blacksmith upgrades.
They're still a great civ and I love playing them, but I'm not surprised they're not top tier for TGs.
Update needed!
Tatars for the win with flamming camels and keshiks are sick
I think the main reason for Indians winning in a team game is they can keep producing Gold Intensive units like Camels, EA and hand cannoneers which would be nearly impossible to sustain in a normal game.
True
"Why are knights so powerful?"
Europe, ~800-1400 ad
Mangudai "allow me to introduce myself"
how is saracens with their foot archer team bonus againts buildings is not number 1??
Obviously,it gonna be Sarracens with
their overpowered team bonus.
My main takeaway from this video:
Comparative advantage best advantage.
Arabia has trees... IS THIS A SIGN?!?!?
Don't Indiana's get additional gold, as well as team mates? It would make sense that they dominate with other stronger civs then?
Hey Spirit, Indians aren't below average in 1vs1 Arabia... Last year, when you first put out best 1vs1 civs, Indians were 9th ranked, just below your honorable mentions which ended at 8th. I too was shocked about Lithuanians but if you think, it makes sense.
Access to trade doesn't increase their strengths in late game. The Leitis is cheap as always, and their 2nd strength is trash units. I don't know if their faster working monasteries get play in team games due to presence of scouts/archers from other opponents as well. Their infantry and siege is just lacking. Also their HCA are average too.
In retrospect, you're probably right that Indians aren't below average in 1v1, though 9th sounds pretty high to me. I based that remark on the win rate by patch show here: aoestats.io/civ/Indians/RM_1v1
Looked to me like they were hanging between 49-50% win rate the last little while, though I didn't pull the actual numbers to check how that stacks up.
Agreed that Lithuanian's trash and Leitis are more valuable in 1v1 than team games.
@@SpiritOfTheLaw i just checked out, and you would be surprised too. Indians are 6th in 1vs1 Arabia and 1vs1 too. That's huge.
@@SpiritOfTheLaw want to get more surprises? Indians are 1st in 1 vs 1 Arabia and 1 vs 1 in general when filtered for 1650+ elo.
@@SpiritOfTheLaw I think Sultan tech is way more overpowered then you think. Once researched, you will get 10% increase in any sources. Relics, gold mines, trade etc.
@Saurav Tripathi The thing about filtering by 1650+ elo in the current patch is the small sample size. Indians have the 6th lowest in play rate for Arabia 1v1. If they're a top 5 1v1 civ why would 1650+ players not have realized that and play them more often?
I'd really like to hear SOTL's usual in-depth take on this. I do understand that for a decent sample size we need all ELOs but at lower ELO the CIV probably makes little to no difference at all. The play in the below 1000 and 1000-1250 ELO ranges (lowest two brackets of the data he goes off) is so sub-optimal that the specific CIV would be only a small factor. It doesn't seem fair to include games where players don't really know what strengths and weaknesses the CIVs have (below 1k, and to a lesser degree 1000-1250) or how to play them. A decent example of that might be the Chinese, who are really flexible and have strong options everywhere but probably no single overpowering one. With their tricky start, their win rate goes from an awful 45% win rate for below 1k ELO players gradually up to 52% for the 1650+ players. Meaning for a skilled player it's an above-average CIV. For a noob, it's one to avoid.
Another example of it not being relevant for low ELO players is the Italian CIV. For the 1000+ players, it's 43-45% win rate on 1v1 arabia. For the below 1k players it's 77% (though tiny sample size).
Whether it's possible to divide CIVs into a top 5 for beginners and top 5 for intermediate and top 5 for pros might be a decent way of doing it - because lumping all CIVs together just has too many variables to be a fair comparison. And including data sets where there wasn't a big buff to a CIV might help with sample size.
It also leaves a decent amount of room for opinion too and that's where your analysis and opinion would be interesting. Using the data as a benchmark, and then explaining any anomaly or putting in some context there, e.g. if a CIV typically won when partnered with another CIV. That'd be really interesting too - cross-referencing the wins of the CIVS. Does Khmer win rate increase when partnered with a Celt ally? Or Saracens with Mayans? Or Aztec and Brumese, etc.? Which are the most powerful combinations - as it's team games, the synergy would be the most important part rather than who is just the best individual team game civ.
Either way, always good to watch your vids and nerd out on this stuff :)
SOTL didn't mention the most useful Saracen team bonus here ;(
No mention to Sultans, Indians unique tech that improves all means of obtaining gold which is remarkable in team games where safe trade is available?
If that was the reason for Indian success we would see Spanish on the list.
@@Halvtooth Actually as far as I know, Sultan tech increases gold by 10% from Any source. Like Gold Mines, relics, and trading. Which means you can collect gold from anywhere with 10% increase as long as you are collecting gold. Spanish get 33% more gold from trade only. Which is why they are weak if your trade line is attacked which is pretty easy since Arabia map is just open flat surface
Worst teamgame civ tierlist incomming! BTW nice Video! ;)
I think what people really want to know is who won the javelin throwing competition at the olympics!
Spirit of the La Hire :P
Hey guys, Team Spirit of the Law here
spanish not in the top 5 is really surprising to me
two things that make indians so good for teamgames that u didnt mention are
1. the vil discount that u did mention enables them that in case one player on each team gets killed and have to reboom.. indian has an ez reboom to do
2. u said yourself that typically the pocket players go for cavalry..... so having some of the best camls in the game seems a viable counterplay in the typical match
Imagine Magyars + Huns combo.
I'd be super interested in how flank vs pocket changes win rates...
I have found Huns Franks and Japanese will always win as long as the franks get a knight rush off that is semi successful. Huns help the franks with 20% boosts to the stables. I can get 6 knights in the time I usually get 5, and then I fall back and let the Japanese eliminate all the trash and special units they send while upgrading to paladins
And than paladins wins game becouse you have 12hp?? How about Italians Byzanties they will melt you army
@@dragondragon5437 say again?
@@StealthySpace7 I think this is best Byz Turks Chinese Indians..Some best bombard towers, Hand cannoners, monk heals, Camels with mix hussars[turks free plus 1armor]Jannisary.. China archers Cavaliers in mix..El Archers, Byz Cheap skrimishers...Classic paladins too many counters..Also mix of 10 Catapracts 10 ByzCamels cheaper than 20Pala With strong back monk heal
I had a feeling Indians would get it. They are so sick from the pocket and just cancel out the opponents' knight line. Sultans is also important, in my experience, with successful team games as Indians, the trade and relic gold rolls in so much faster so your transition to super-late game is very smooth.
@Emre Vural The one pierce armour that Indians get is more useful than cheaper camels as they would get destroyed by crossbow/ Arbs without it. Also, in team games trash units are rarely used as trade is available and raids are also done with gold units.
@Emre Vural +5 vs building is far from useless, can take out production buildings so much faster, and the extra pierce armor makes them TC killers. I like Berbers, but imperial camels are in a whole other ballpark.
Khmers are definitely number one nowadays
@ Spirit Of The Law. Are Japanese still your favorite Civilization? From what I gather, you seem very fond of (Siege) Onagers? What about Ethiopians, do you like those?
Can we get a video comparing the infinite resources generated by malay fish traps, fetoria, and trade?
What about Mayans and Goths team?
Can u make best civ for water map
Can you make a video in which you discuss your best civs for arabia?
What are your views with new civs added like Poles and Bohemians?
The viper plays has Koreans a few times.....hahahaha
Indians were a surprise!!
Would love a list for top civ for Arabia free for all, if it is available haha
30+ Indian Imp camel melt buildings
Do you know something ? My age of empire 2 def saying steam_api has been trigged reastartneccery()
Now do a Top 5 FFA civs :)
Is this still relevant information? counting for new nerfs and updates? is there an updated video?
GG
I reckon you combine the power of Indians with Huns for the faster working stables.
You have to make a remake about your old video especially on the top 5 videos
Also Indians eco is one of the best
Is there a way to see which combinations of civs in team battles get the highest win rating?