10 Facts about National Service
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ส.ค. 2024
- National service UK.
Find out more about my own experiences doing National Service UK 1950s.
Check out my reflections on army officer training and selection in the 1950s, National Service style.
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Ten facts about National Service UK 1950s
1. It was not all spit and polish and sergeants swearing. Many national servicemen, after training, were sent on active service. Nearly 400 died.
2. Many national servicemen found that they liked it, and at the end of their two years they signed on as regular soldiers.
3. Between 1948 and 1963, nearly two and a half million young men did National Service.
4. After their basic training, thousands of national servicemen were taught a trade - engineer, electrician, physical training instructor - and when their two years were over, they found they had a career for life.
5. Some recruits came from such deprived backgrounds that, when they were put in their barrack room, found that they could sleep in a bed, on their own, for the first time in their lives.
6. No matter how much an eager recruit may have fancied flying a Spitfire or a life on the ocean wave, barely more than 25% got into the RAF (and they certainly weren`t flying Spitfires), and a bare 2% made it into the Navy.
7. An average national serviceman`s weekly pay was about 16% of the average weekly wage of the time.
8. A lot of young men were selected for officer training, and some stayed on as regular officers. Two became field marshals. One of those became the professional head of the whole British Army.
9. At the end of National Service, there was no gratuity from the government, no commemorative medal, and no pension.
10. For fifteen years, from 1948 to 1963, 6,000 young men had to join the Armed Forces every fortnight. That`s 156,000 every year. The current total of all the regular Armed Forces, put together, is about 150,000. It would be impossible to ‘bring back National Service’ in the way we have always understood it.
To learn more about National Service UK, 1950s, have a read of my two books on the subject.
Joined the Royal Navy in 1949 to avoid conscription in either the army or air force and even going down the coal mines.ended up doing 22years including 3 years on an aircraft carrier in Korea. Would do it all again,a great life. Now 92 and still enjoying life!
Military life has the potential to be much more interesting than civilian life!
@braised44 and much more traumatic, stressful, and deadly
I missed doing compulsory National Service by about 18 months. At the time, I was so glad to have avoided it but now regret not having been called up.
It should be remembered,that two thirds of the soldiers who served in the Korean war were National service men,and that almost 400 were killed in action
I did national service,1956 /58, I learnt to drive heavy lorries and received an extra seven and sixpence in my wages.I volunteered for the para,s,
And passed their para course,and got attached to the 23rd para field ambulance.I have no regrets being enlisted and still have army friends.
What was Pegasus Company like then, relatively speaking ? Given that the 'Para's' so the historical record tells us, were decidedly cool about taking National Servicemen into their ranks, maybe it was as arduous as today, would be interesting to know.
I served in the R.A.F for originally 2 years but signed on for the extra year, and I enjoyed almost every minute of the time I was serving, I did my square bashing at RAF Padgate, then moved to Blackpool (RAF Weeton) for trade training, I spent 2 Years in Germany again enjoying biggest part of it. It taught me a lot about life.
I was told many times that the RAF,was much easier than the Army, and saw many men try to get into the RAF.
Whilst I quite liked Germany in 1952,we had a really hard time in the Army for the first 16 weeks,and one poor chap found it all too much and sadly took his own life.
Great shame National Service stopped.It would do a huge amount of good today as it did then and helped many people get a better start in life.
Spoke with an old soldier who served almost 20 years in the British army. His opinion was that conscription / national service was a waste of resources and time as the fact that there were too many who just did not want to be there which severely diluted the ability of the army and wasted precious resources in enforcing disciple.
You also have to factor in that there will be a tiny percentage potentially dangerous and unscrupulous types from the criminal classes who will be caught in the net of national service and who will be given comprehensive firearms training and maybe even explosives training as a result of being conscripted, thus taking those skills into the civilian arena
A professional standing army with reservists who actually want to do it is far more effective
I am happy of course to be proven wrong
I totally agree , and imho the Falklands war proved that a highly trained professional army ( British Army ) was far better than a conscripted one, albeit the Argentinians !
I would ,point out to my comment above,that two thirds of those who fought in the Korean War were National servicemen,and Nearly 400 were killed.
My son went into the RAF under the much maligned Youth Training Scheme in 1984. He signed on for 10 years and actually did 6 and bought himself out. He trained as a aircraft fitter. He now has his very own very successful machinery guarding business.
When I did YTS in 1980 it was a 6 month thing, I did mine with Lincolnshire Police. I’m not aware of the scheme operating for the military like that.
The Army did short service contracts, 3, 6, 9 years but it wasn’t under YTS.
I joined the Army in 1979. For a few of the people I knew in basic training. For the first time, they had their own bed and a choice of hot food. And more importantly. A direction in life. As the recruiting advert said. "If you have it in you, the Army will bring it out"
I was conscripted into the army in February 1955, reporting to the Royal Army Pay Corps at Waller Barracks Devizes. Four weeks basic training were followed by a further six weeks technical instruction to become a pay clerk. However, a job in the Company Office was on offer, I decided to apply and was successful. Posted to Permanent Staff of the Training Centre and life changed beyond belief. We held very responsible jobs controlling the movements of recruit intakes coming in, being turned into trained soldiers and then posted out to pay offices in the UK, West Germany and units overseas. As a tight little group within a constantly moving population we formed, for National Servicemen, a unique relationship and our friendship became lifelong. I have never for one minute regretted having to do my two years for Queen and Country, it was definitely the making of me.
I joined the army in 1960 at the age of 15 went to army apprentice school arborfield . good times.
Army Apprentices College Harrogate, 1976.
Good times indeed.
I did my NS in the Royal Marines (1959/51). We were not needed, unloved and given nothing and even sent out three months early. It interrupted my career and I gained nothing from it apart from a little resentment of commissioned officers and we, the dregs of humanity.
My Father did his national service in the Royal Horse Artillery and always told me it was the best days of his life and always regretting coming out of the service. I loved looking at is B/W photos of been in the service there's one with all his mates on a frozen lake in Germany Ice skating and another where he's sat at a long table in a dining room where he has a desert rat badge on his shoulder can't remember if I asked him about that before he sadly past away. He also came from poor back ground.
Very well put over , my father did his N S in Jamaica and the surrounding countries and obviously enjoyed it and he told me he made some very good mates along the way
My father was in the KSLI in Jamaica '39 to'42.
Thank you so much. Great to get engagement with these talks. I’m planning more content so if you have suggestions as to topics you’d like to hear more about, I’d welcome your ideas. It always helps our channel if you feel you’d like to subscribe, if you haven’t done so already of course. All the best, Berwick.
National Service actually ended in 1960 although those who had deferred their Service went in after that date. I did my Service from 1955 to 1957 mostly in Personnel Selection. In 1956 we were waiting for a certain Tommy Hicks (Steel) to arrive. He never did !
My Dad was in the Pay Corps. He learned to drink😸
I extended my NS by a year in order to get into the Armoured Corps and found it a great experience. An interesting thing was most of the so called hard nuts were the first to crumble. All mouth and no substance.
Dad came form a large family brought up in a 2 up 2 down terraced house and he never had new clothes just hand me downs and had to share his bed, they were poor. He was called up into the Royal Artillery operating anti aircraft guns, He enjoyed the camaraderie, played lots of sport and was posted to Germany. He was discharged as a Bombardier or Corporal. He enjoyed national service and got a lot out of it. He was a good, decent hard working family man with values and principles so it didn't do him any harm.
Thank you Sir
Most welcome
My father was called up in 1953. He was discharged in 1975 as a Sergeant with the Long Service & Good Conduct medal. He was a non tradesman in REME. He was posted to what was West Germany twice & I spent the first 3 1/2 years of my life in a place called Walsrode as he was attached to 7 Armoured Workshop in Fallingbostel 1962-65. Five years later he went to 23 Base Workshop, Wetter, so I had another 2 years in Germany, a country & people I love.
I' m an Aussie and was in the Army Cadet Force in the U.K in the mid 70s. All the other kids thought it was great and we enjoyed living on a Army base for a week a year going rock climbing and assault courses, I got to fire Enfield 303s. Many went on to join the British Army and knew army discipline and culture, a good head start. Sadly, a couple of my mates died in the Falklands war. They were there and they wanted to be there from their own choice. LEST WE FORGET
I joined the Army (REME) in 1959 as a regular. At that time National Service was still occurring. The final call up was for men born before 1 October 1939. Because of a shortage of recruits to the army the final call ups were kept on for an extra 6 months and did 2 1/2 rather than 2 years. The basic pay on entry at that time was (after deductions) 25/- a week, £1.25. If you were married you were required to contribute to the marriage allowance and this figure dropped to 15/- £0.75 a week. Most National Servicemen took it all in there stride and enjoyed the experience. However, there were a small minority who could not and some unfortunately committed suicide and some deserted. Later on after the end of National Service we would occasionally get one of the deserters returned to Barracks to await Courts Martial. In nearly every case I came across the reason they were caught was because they had fallen out with a member of their family who had shopped them.
Thank you John. Fascinating detail. And highlights some of real tragedy that accompanied this period.
Hi my husband was one of those that done the extra 6 months of NS, but he says the extra 6 months was given to those serving in Germany Senelager because of the trouble in Berlin, he was in the veterinary unit, dog training,
@@judithgriffin9465 sorry but that is not true. First there was no problem in Berlin in 1963. JFK visited Berlin in 1963 but that was in July 2 months after the end of NS. The Berlin wall went up in August 1961. I too was in Germany in 1963 in Wuppertal and all our national Servicemen did an extra 6 months. If you check you will find that National Service ended in May 1963 exactly 2 1/2 years after the last call up November 1960. I can find no evidence that this date only applied to Germany. I still believe it was due to recruitment shortfalls in the regular army.
My husband was one of those that did an extra 6 month in Germany was ready to leave in Nov 1962 and stayed until May1963 and we were married in August 1963
@@johnplus1 you do not have to be sorry, that was the information that was given to him, we were looking forward to him coming home in the Nov
I was a National Serviceman, called up in 1954 , after basic training I was posted to Tel El Kekir in Egypt at Suez Canal, a year later l was posted to Nicosia in Cyprus, the pay was £1 one week and 15 shillings (75p) the next, mind you a pint was only 10p.
are you getting the d's & p's wrong ?
My late Father was a National Service conscript. He served in the Royal Pioneer Corps. He was sent to Korea. I have his discharge papers, he managed to attain the rank of corporal. He said that the two years were his education. Coming from a poor country background, he was used to the hardship. His cousin who was the same age served in the Royal Army Pay Corps and died in rather tragic circumstances in a training exercise in 1952.
The lack of Naval National Servicemen is hardly surprising... it takes so long to train up a sailor to full readiness for sea, let alone for a maritime trade, that there would be little return on investment. My only contact with a "nasho" (as they were predictably called here in Australia, yes we had National Service too) ) was the LTCOL who was then CO of our PTS when I was doing parachute courses there as a young Naval officer. He told his story well...he came into the Army as a nasho.. and said he had been digging a hole, in the rain, trying to clear a blocked kitchen drain at the Nasho barracks.... when a Sergeant appeared and said to him "...You wanna be an Officer?" He said he looked around and thought, "Well it's got to be better than THIS" Like others you have mentioned he found a home in the Army...ending up in the Australian SAS to boot.....and like many others he claimed to have been "the worst 2nd Lieut in the history of the Australian Army" LOL
Good on ya Cobber
Being a member of the RNVR I was lucky to serve my 2 years in the Royal Navy. Joined HMS Raleigh December 1953 discharged December 1955.
Basic training was easy as grounding in the RNVR had me prepared. I did 6 weeks at Raleigh before being sent on accelerated advancement training on two aircraft carriers HMS Indefatigable and HMS Ocean. On completion then went to Chatham Barracks and drafted to HMS Wizard for the remainder of my service.
Spent that time in Londonderry N.Ireland We spent alot of time at sea on Antisubmarine exercises and often picked up crashed aircrew
Wow. Really interesting. My Dad did National Service in the RAF. Very interesting thank you.
Thank you so much. Great to get engagement with these talks. I’m planning more content so if you have suggestions as to topics you’d like to hear more about, I’d welcome your ideas. It always helps our channel if you feel you’d like to subscribe, if you haven’t done so already of course. All the best, Berwick.
National Service was another example of the Establishments control & manipulation over supposedly free people. I served from 1960 to 1962. By the time I was actually called up I was two months off of 22 & on full pay having completed my apprenticeship where I worked. Those two years cost me money (happened to many but they were not my concern). I married four years later & that income would have been bloody handy you blokes. Taxed to high heaven all my working life whilst the people who make the laws to suit themselves have a bloody high old time. One can justifiably say, we are & have been bloody mugs.
Emigrate
@@bowler58.7 Ah you have been talking to Ernie Hunt again.
I got called up in August 1958 and did my time in Catterick before being sent to Episkopi Garrison Cyprus on active service . Shit i was very happy to get 30BOB overseas allowance per week i felt i was rich then .PS FOOD WAS FUCKING AWFUL THERE FOR THE TIME I SPENT THERE TILL I WAS DEMOBBED IN AUGUST 4TH IN SAIGHTON CAMP CHESTER AS I SERVED MY TIME IN THE ROYAL SIGNALS . SOLDIERS THEN WERE TREATED LIKE SHITE .
My dad did his NS in Germany. He considered himself lucky as he could, and did, get home on leave. Some of his mates went into the RAF and spent two years festering in tents in the Egyptian desert.
He'd take issue with the assertion the army taught you trades. By and large the army didn't want to waste time training someone only for them to bugger off sharpish once their time was done. You mainly got infantry and that was it.
At the end of your time you went before an officer who would try to sweet talk you into joining up but the vast majority of lads couldn't wait to get back to civilian life and start civilian careers, things that had been put on hold.
My late farther did National Service with the Royal Army Service Corps where he learnt to drive. He then did regular service with the Welsh Guards.
Training took 10 weeks then many were shipped overseas to places like Korea,Malaya and many other trouble spots, I my self wound up in Cyprus and the Suez invasion all on half pay. I did not get any leave before I was shipped out as I was told one day were I was going and I was on my way the next day.. While waiting to be sent into Suez we were not allowed to write home encase we let anything slip, and this is when I lost touch with the young lady I was courting as she thought I had dumped her. Also when I was called up I was studying Electrical engineering as was very close to sitting for my finial exam yet I was called up. I wrote to my MY Harold McMillian and he told me I could sit my exam if I signed on for !! years, which never happened so I was then in the Army.
I remember my uncles being called up, and my fathers cousins. It was part of normal life. One Uncle had a Tattoo, Malaya Never Again' He hated the Army . Another learned skills as a welder. One of the cousins broke a leg in parachute training and spent most fo his 'service' off sick. Another went briefly to Egypt .
My fathers "National Service " consisted of six years in active service (1939-1945)
Very interesting and informative. Thanks
We must bring back the national service now so we can be ready
My dad undertook national service with the RAF in Hong Kong, there he contracted Rheumatic fever and apparently was not treated for it as they thought he was malingering. He died in 1966 leaving two young boys with my mother to bring up on her own. She got a war widow's pension so I am assuming the state took responsibility......So probably many more than 400 deaths.
My own experience with NS was a very mixed one.
Having been born in 1935 and living in England I became liable for service in June 1953. At that point I had nearly enough academic qualifications to be accepted at University to study engineering. I lacked the foreign language requirement, so I applied to stay on at school to pick up an O level in German. This required being granted a deferment of NS. In 1954, having now obtained all the requirements I was granted a County Scholarship and free tuition and went on to obtain my degree in Mechanical Engineering in 1957. I then applied for further deferment in order to complete a two-year " graduate apprenticeship " in which one learns the practical side of engineering on the shop floor. On completing the apprenticeship I did a three-month diploma course in Nuclear Technology. By mid 1959 my deferment expired and soon after I was contacted directly by the Royal Navy because I had during my student days indicated to them that I would be interested in some involvement in nuclear submarines which were being constructed at that time.
I presented myself for interview at Queen Ann's Mansions in London, and was interviewed by two men in civilian clothes. I found out later that the main guy who did all the talking was a four-ring Captain. His interviewing technique was " aggressive " and consisted of asking rude questions in a snotty manner which rubbed me the wrong way, so I was fairly rude in return, never calling him " Sir " and bashing back each rude question with a rude answer. [ I discovered later that this can be a good strategy, because it shows you have some spirit and sense of self-worth which could prove useful in service life if things ever started to get a bit hot in the face of the enemy ]. The Navy were looking for people with engineering degrees to teach naval ratings, and those accepted would be known as " Education Officers ".
This was a far cry from serving on a nuclear submarine, and I said so. The blunt reply was that the Navy " had no intention of wasting sea berths on short service officers ".
At this point I spotted that I was was in a dangerous situation. The Navy might decide to " accept " me and I would have no right of refusal. But there was still the matter of a medical to be passed, which took place on the same day as the interview. It was quite extensive, but I managed to fail by faining bad eyesight and told then I suffered from debilitating migraines. So thankfully I was failed.
The next step in the NS game was that having been turned down by the Navy, the RAF would not consider you, but the Army still got a kick at the cat.
A few weeks later I reported to Lincoln Barracks for my Army medical. Among the intake was a young lad six years my junior who was wearing trousers with holes in the arse from which his shirt tale was protruding here and there. It occurred to me that if the Army accepted both of us we would receive equal treatment. This thought did not appeal to me; neither did the thought that the Army and all those standing in higher rank would essentially have the power of life and death over me. This did not appeal to me either.
As it turned out I was saved by having a bad case of acne on my back. The MO said that he thought I would be " unable to carry a pack " as a result, and I was failed on medical grounds.
Subsequently I did get to serve my country by working as a civilian on nuclear submarines in a Navy " think tank ".
If you've stayed with me this far I hope you will accept the proposition that NS was not a regime designed to produce optimum results for the country, and for many [ particularly those endowed with an above average set of functioning brain cells ] would have been a waste of everyone's time and money, as well as delaying the individual's ability to become economically independent and perhaps contribute to what later became Maggie Thatcher's economic recovery.
Does any of this experience qualify as " Facts Relating to National Service " ?
Ich danke Ihnen fuers Geshichte!
Mein Vater war auch im Deutscland gewesen zwischen 49 bis 51.
Always amuses me the majority of the group who say bring back National Service, have never served in the Armed Forces.
Up to 1990 the Country’s in Europe that did not have a form of armed forces National Served were U.K. and Ireland.
The rest did, and these conscripts were a low military standard.
To give you idea, during the first Gulf War the French conscripts refused to go, and so there place was taken by French Foreign Legion.
I am 70% overjoyed that NS, was abolished before my time, the thought of being at the tender mercy of a Drill Segearnt, heading to Northern Ireland, or some other hotspot, filled me with dread. However the other 30% recognises NS, would have given me a self confidence, taught me self discipline and organisation that I was lacking in my late teens and early adulthood.
Yes, it's good and bad. And I agree that it is 70% no good .....
You wouldn’t have done a tour of N.I. as a National Service soldier. National Service ended before Op Banner started.
My grandad was never called up for national service but he joined TA in 1963 and was in Airborne REME did parachute training and got his wings he went out to Cyprus he did and worked on vehicles out there.
I was told first hand that some intakes couldn’t read or write. There were courses to become literate, so notices could be read and rules understood and if you wanted Friday nights off with a leave in the town to have a few beers you had to be literate first. The fellow told me that they’d be literate in three or four weeks, nothing like an incentive! And that’s bang on about square meals and a bed to yourself. A lot of these blokes were from real poverty and this was bloody luxury.
The para,s had to have national service personnel.The reason being,they had to have lorry drivers,mechanics,signallers.medics,etc.
Hence ,a national service man could volunteer to do the para course.I volenteed from the royal army service corp and passed their course.
Clive James, who did National service in the Australian Army reckoned his RSM's voice was so load it arrived like incoming artillery from across the parade ground.!
Army pay, from one who knows 1954 to 1957. National servicemen 29 shillings per week, 3 year regulars 49 shillings per week. 3 year regulars got extra as a tradesman 2nd class and more for a 1st class tradesman. Additionally every soldier had to have a spell on the rifle range every year and if your score was above a certain level ie marksman, you got sixpence a day extra ! ! !
Ah yes . In 1951 I was a 3 year regular tradesman 1st class. Once a year we had rifle qualification. It helped if you new where your mate was in the Butts.
Uniforms in those days were excruciatingly uncomfortable. For all three services they were made of thick coarse serge. Even in summer or out on exercise you had to wear this stuff.
Much of basic training was taken up with keeping it clean and maintained. Blanco. Brasso. Ironing. Boot polish (spit and, for the use of). Sewing. Folding away. Packing. Washing. When I think of all ‘those poor bastards who had to wear it for six years in WW2 in all sorts of conditions....
A lot of people went completely nuts doing National service.
My brother was called up in1949 spent two years in Egypt with lots of different regiments as a corporal in the army ,as well as the RAF. Who were there There was four big camps there .i was called up in March 1951,for two years after basic training you were selected to do different duties or skills in the forces and posted all over the world or in the uk.i was trained to be a driver of different army vehicles.to be able to fix as well as look after them all.I was posted to a mobile column,with regular forces as a driver etc ,and trained with them in the manoeuvres around the country,after my service like every one we had to do 15 days camp for three years,then spent another three years in the reserves ,as you be called up again if needed,that’s a rough idea of what National service was about protecting this country in time of need again.My brothers mate who served with him was killed in Egypt.
My brother did NS in REME and spent time fighting in Korea. In later life he had several garages. Built Elva Courier sports cars for export, worked as a stunt man in films and rans a company preparing vehicles for stunts. Worked on three Bond films. Paraded down Whitehall with the Korean Vets.
I served in the British Forces during the 1980’s and back then whenever the issue of bringing back National Service raised its head the response of most serving personnel was a resounding NO, the opinion was that if you went into combat you wanted the man covering your back to be a volunteer, just like you, and not someone who hadn’t been given the choice.
The main disadvantage of national service was that a significant part of the regular army was involved in training the recruits and therefore not available for operational service. My father did his national service in Malaya and Borneo and signed on afterwards serving for 15 years.
1960 as a Fireman on the GWR I missed NS & was grateful. Those who'd been in reported a waste of time a boring & crappy life. From a working class background I don't know anyone who didn't sleep in their own bed or lacked three meals a day in 1960. My father complained at the dire effect it had on those who'd been in the forces. In the war it was different & all my Uncles served with some killed or losing limbs. After 1948 what was it for? A doomed attempt to hang onto the Empire rather than joining the EU as we needed to do.
My mate was called up after finishing his apprenticeship as a butcher. At the first desk he was told the army desperately needed butchers and he'd go into the Ordinance Corps and probably get a tape and if he stayed on he'd get 3 stripes quickly. He was delighted with this. At the next desk they looked at his medical documents, said 'You 6ft 2"?' He confirmed he was and they sent him to Caterham to join the Coldstream Guards! He looked back on it as some of the best times of his life , especially Coronation duty.
One of the TV companies did a show about NS many years after it had finished. They wanted to do a balanced show and had great trouble finding guys to complain about it. They took boys from poor backgrounds and sent them to Germany, or HK or Malaya and taught them a trade. They came out very different men than the ones who went in.
Thanks for the facts of National Service. My nation service began in 1954 as two years in the RAF and I leaned to drive many different vehicles from cars to heavy refuelers and queen Marys, they were articulated low loaders that were capable of carrying an aircraft fuselage and wings. I enjoyed seven years in total and travelled on overseas postings, not forgetting twelve months in the Pacific during the Nuclear Testing.
Great video love it
Thank you so much. Great to get engagement with these talks. I’m planning more content so if you have suggestions as to topics you’d like to hear more about, I’d welcome your ideas. It always helps our channel if you feel you’d like to subscribe, if you haven’t done so already of course. All the best, Berwick.
Can you imagine the dainty little sugars putting up with NS now? (Ex regular)
I must take you up on your suggestion that National Service(Conscription) came into effect post WW2.
Apparently National Service Conscription) was introduced Pre WW2 and was for the duration of the Hostilities, then at the termination of WW2 it was adjusted to 18 months to ease the flooding of the civilian work force with unskilled labour from the War effort. The duration of Conscription was raised to 24 months in anticipation of the Korean War.
I was called up for National Service in 1954 and after my medical was told to go home and I would be advised into which of the three Services I had been allocated to.
This option was not on my agenda as I did NOT wish to go into the Army or R.N. but that I wanted to work on aircraft engines in the R.A.F.... I was told I had not choice so I bade them fair well as I was not interested... I was promptly told as a Conscript I had no choice and I again told them what they could do! with their no choice.
Someone pulled me aside and said if I wanted to go into the R.A.F. then I would have to sign on which would mean also more money, and if I was interested to go out the door and turn left and sit on a chair ast the end of the corridor and my papers would be taken up there where I would be interviewed.
I was accepted and signed on for five years after Basic Training at Padgate I went to St Athans and was trained on Rolls Royce Gas Turbines(what could be better), posted to Singapore on 81 P.R.Sqdn and served there for 3 Unbelievable years and Mentioned in Despatches, returned to the U.K. and posted to R.A.F. Debden (a DUMP) and disillusioned with the R.A.F. downsizing (and closing of so many overseas bases) in the U.K. and the lousy weather left the R.A.F.(Great experience that made a Man of me) 1n 1959.
Thank you Al. Most interesting. Berwick
My grandfather was a regular soldier he stayed on after ww2 reached the rank of sergeant major and he was based at cattrick
Berwick highlights National Service as starting in 1948. It actually started in September 1939, however until 1948 those called up were done so under wartime legislation. Sadly history has often recorded NS as a peacetime activity, which od course it was not. Regards 'no commemorative medal', in the UK these are normally issued for Jubilees and Coronations, not compulsory military service. Some NS men did receive the 1953 Coronation Medal, but probably a small number.
My father did national service from 1947 to 1949.
Very nice video, well done, what a fine collection of books you have, just subscribed
My dad told me the only decent thing was that he was a pt instructor he went to Germany he was pleased when his time was up
My Dad did national service, and spent most of his time playing rugby.
Looking at all the youth problems we have in society today,I feel national service would be a good thing. The teaching of discipline a trade and order to young people seems to be more of an advantage for adult life than not.
wasn't that one of Hitlers first sayings.
@Mira Ferriviario in Britain in peace time there should be no standing army because the governments of the time use the army to bring in laws that the civilian population do not want and after one such event the government was forced to disband the army in peace time but since then the government has brought back standing army through the back door. If you look at how the police are being used in covid Britain and the threat of the army being used as a back up by the government it seems no one learns from history. Here's a better way to stop wars from starting the leaders of the 2 countries wanting a war each arm themselves with a knife and fight to the death in a neutral country and problem solved or the first to go to war will be the richest and the ones who have most to lose along side all politicians down to local level and bingo no more wars, why should the working class pay the heavy costs of deaths in a family when they had no say and little to lose if the country lost the war.
that sort of thought has been bandied about for 50-or so years, still-nothing,and each generation of youth comes with its own special problems
I joined up at seventeen and half in the REME as a regular as I did not want to be put in the Cannon fodder regiment
I trained as vehicle mechanic and got promotion of corporal,the only regret I had was not joining the REME airborne
when I had the chance
You could opt for the Royal Navy, but had to agree to serve a minimum of three years, which most were not prepared to do.
Alex I do not think that you are correct. I did my National Service in the Royal Navy 1958 to 1960 after basic training at HMS Raleigh I then was sent to Chatham on a 12 week Diesel engine course. After passing I served the rest of my service on “Ton” coastal minesweepers. The least time you could sign on for regular service was seven years, I know that to be a fact because I enquired. PS I enjoyed every minute
I certainly didn't have that choice .On conscription I asked if I could go into The RN but was told they were taking no National servicemen ,so 2 Years in REME in Germany ,bored to tears most of the time but the occasion exercise was enjoyable . I learnt that there was no way I wanted to be involved with Tanks after the time with the Centurions but the lovely old half track and Dingoes were really good to be around and the Bedford QL saw many 18-20 year olds leaving the service with full driving licences ,many with heavy goods .
In 1964 a recruit who had signed on for 9 years got £1 a day or £7 a week less tax and N.I. Food, accommodation, military clothing and equipment supplied.
My 90-year-old father did his in the late 1940s and early 1950s and spent quite some time in East Africa.
That’s where I did my own National Service, a few years after your father. B
@@BerwickCoatesHistorian My dad was in the army, light infantry. We’re you army or maybe RAF? Perhaps based in Mogadishu?
My dad did national service but he didn't have to because he was only child in the family and he had to work on his fathers farm but my dad decided to do it
1957 I was 18 and went for the medical did a couple of tests and was told I would be joining the Brylcreem boys. I didn't get my orders to actually go to Cardington for a few weeks but in October I was in a blue uniform. 8 weeks in Wilmslow for instruction in how to march and obey orders and then off to RAF Kirkham, there the objective was to teach me to be an Airframe Mechanic. Now that was a waste of time because I was Posted to Germany and then to RAF Wahn where for the next 18 months I pumped fuel into NF 11Meteor jets. Looking back I'm glad I did it made a lot of friends and became very independent, which,
when I finally rejoined civvy st was a problem for my parents as I did exactly what I wanted to when I wanted to. A good experience overall.
Is it true when Great Britain got ride of National Service in the early sixties.
The Governments of Australia, and New Zealand put it to a National vote, and the public decided to keep conscription?
The Australian government brought back National Service to boost troop numbers for Vietnam, there was no vote.
Yes and it wasn’t general conscription. They drew your birthday out of a barrel and you finished up in Vietnam. It was called the lottery of death. Whitlam and the labour government abolished conscription and freed all the draft resistors from prison and over 300 draft resistors had there charges dropped and the last Australian soldiers came home at the very end of 1973. First time the Australian army came home losers. Got fool again in Afghanistan. No wonder todays young ones don’t want to join up in great numbers
Again I am here because of A friend (actually his father) my friends father did national service and loved it ( he said he came from a council estate with no prospects) he went into the royal engineers ,learnt a trade and stayed in he served 37 years worked his way up to brigadier ( very hard to do in those days) from private, he said he went around the world and would do it again in a heartbeat.
A chap I knew had a similar experience. His story is that during training, because he successfully assembled a bicycle pump he was sent into the REME. He ended his military career as a Major General. A nice man
This video was made three years ago and now the armed forces are at 70k
The pay rate for a national service RM Commando was tuppence an hour. As you could be called into action at any time your actual working week was 168 hours which worked out as 28/- per week. After 18 months you were upgraded to Marine 1st Class, pay increased to I think £2 per week. I served with 40 Cdo. in The Canal Zone in Egypt.
We had N/servicemen in RM when I joined as a regular in 59
when I went to 40 cdo malta 60 their were about six in Y troop all top notch royal marines great days
My Dad did 2 years national service, he was deferred as he was an apprentice moulder. he went in 21. He was an ammunition technician in the Royal Army Ordnance Corps. He enjoyed it and nearly signed on as regular. He didn't because he had a job to go back to.
They only thing that he said was that he lost money as he was skilled man. I remember him say as the presenters said about some blokes had never slept in their own bed before.
Thank you Bernie. I’m sure there must be 1,000s stories like your father’s. Thank you for sharing it. Berwick
@@BerwickCoatesHistorian Only replying to people who agree ? as I said opinions vary, As a historian have you looked at other aspects of war on working class people I'm sure for some it. might have been better than the places they lived at that time but as I said I was surprised by how government took my grandfathers savings of gold sovereigns 7 to be precise he effectively got none of it back and was threatened a long time in jail if he didn't declare All his gold
Shame that it's not a possibility nowadays. I joined the Air Cadets age 13, and stayed until I joined the Royal Artillery (TA) 7 years later. The cadets and the TA turned me from being a kid into an adult, and was one of my better life decisions. One of my worst decisions was deciding to only do it part time, I SHOILD have gone full time and become a career soldier. Ah well, can't turn back the clock! :( Nowadays, especially with the current Government, I'd be much less keen to join. We've all seen how the Government screws over Veterans!
The pay for a National Service private in 1957 was £1. 50 a week, if you signed on for thee years ( an extra year) you became a regular and got about twice as much.
Not forgetting it was pocket money, as food, lodging, transport etc etc etc was all provided
My dad did national service and these were the best years of his life before settling down and getting married.He was a very disaplyn man.I myself have never found anyone who can compare to my dad.He never complained about nothing and just happy with what he had.
Age roughly 76 my dad had a tropical diseaese on his head.
He had it cut out but it came back.
Cause him to have alzeimers very quickly.He went into a coma and passed away yesterday.
My dad would do it all again. Leeanne xxxxx
My grandad did his national service in the Royal Air Force. He stayed on and became a technical writer.
My father served his national service in the BUFFS !! He was also a boxing champion !! But other than that I have no more information apart from one picture !! He died in 1976 get young.
Same young-men signed on, yeah about 0,05%. My cousin served his NS setting up an army photographic laboratory on Cyprus and was the army's official photographer during PM Macmillan's visit.
The army didn't give him any training, he had it with him from civy-street. On returning to the UK the army searched his belongings for a photo of a freind that had been killed, a photo that had been take a few day prior to the even. He wanted to give the photo to his friend's mother, the army confiscated it.
National Servicemen in the Army were paid less than their regular comrades but were exposed to exactly the same risks and were not legally allowed to vote unless over 21 years old. As my dad always says 'we were old enough to fight and die with no choice in the matter but couldnt drink or vote'......what a disgrace.
Voting age 21 until it changed to 18 in 1969 (ref Wikipedia) so we were all in the same boat & I was in the RN
One certainly could drink, i did in Episkopi and loved the beer called KEO, i was 19 then, and could go into the Pub at 18 which i did in Edinburgh.
Most modern army's dont want conscripts ( national service) as modern armies are small professional units. Using their limited resources to train a large influx of civilians is just seen as a waste. You might get 12 15 months productive use out of a two year conscript (the rest of the time is spent training them ) Then they leave, and you have to train someone else. Your professional soldiers just end up spending all their time teaching, and not developing their own skills. The days of massive armies are over. Some small countries eg Israel, Switzerland etc still have national service, but this is rare.
The Israelis Don't appear to know that
I think that the idea at the time was that the forces would have a supply of trained men ready to call up in a crisis. The belief was that national serviceman would just need a brief refresher course before being sent into action.
i did not want to do it but it was the best thing i have ever done i am not a dummie but if possible i would do it again
you get the best mates and that lasts for ever you never forget sorry for the blokes that cannot do it now
My grandad did national service for 3 years army reserves medical his still around now 86 Alzheimer’s but he doesn’t let that stop him he loves going to church and Irish centre lunch club I like to fix broken photos or bring black and white pictures into colour so I am doing his photo of him and regiment in colour
National Service has always been a bit of mystery, especially as it continued way past what seemed to be justifiable in military terms, given the political realities which became apparent in the post-Suez era. The ten facts are very interesting but really need to be filled out, to put them in perspective. Certainly, the actual percentage of men who went on to become professional soldiers, would clarify the size of the minority who made that choice. It would also be helpful to know how many women were called up to do National Service, and know the thinking behind the difference in age, when they became subject to it. The speeches of Richard Winterbottom, the Labour MP, seem to reveal that abuses did take place, and that financial and monetry losses for those doing National Service, could be substantial.
Thank you so much. Great to get engagement with these talks. I’m planning more content so if you have suggestions as to topics you’d like to hear more about, I’d welcome your ideas. It always helps our channel if you feel you’d like to subscribe, if you haven’t done so already of course. All the best, Berwick.
Plus today, girls would have to do it as well. The sheer number would make it untenable.
Chris Hilton
In the USA the supreme court recently ratified an old decision that women were not to be conscripted. Ladies can get federal education grants that men cannot get unless the sign up to be conscripted. And they talk about equality.
I do know one thing. We need to bring it back.
Start a war somewhere and it will come back.
The forces dont want it.
All three armed services are now so deeply invested in modern technology that there is no place for half-trained cannon-fodder. It takes years to achieve the levels of performance expected of even an ordinary infantryman, so there's no chance it will ever come back. There might be an argument for a civilian version to undertake those environmental tasks which local government has abandoned due to spending cuts, but I wouldn't hold your breath....
Fact 11 not all national service was in the military
Fact 12 none of the 10 was unknown or a surprise
National Servicemen were paid £2.5 shillings(£2.25 a week) Regular soldiers were on £5 And never rose in the six years I served.
if you were born upto and including 31st December 1939 you did national service If you were born from Jan1st 1940 onwards, you were not liable to do national service.
Thanks a great video. On the subject of whether it's abolition was for good or bad; we probably would be minus The Beatles and a lot of other talented artist had it continued into 64 and beyond.
Oh dear How very sad
Thank you so much. Great to get engagement with these talks. I’m planning more content so if you have suggestions as to topics you’d like to hear more about, I’d welcome your ideas. It always helps our channel if you feel you’d like to subscribe, if you haven’t done so already of course. All the best, Berwick.
National service just doesn't have to be a force ready and in uniform for two years , but a group of people with the background who can be used in defence and more so civil defence in the event of a major crisis , The UK has nothing like it apart from its dismal Regular and reserve forces who would be totally overwhelmed .
It should be brought back
Yeah. It would give some of the scumbags out there a kick up the arse! They wouldn't last a week!
Forces dont want it and didnt back in the day. This was a big part of why it was ended as well as the cost.
Think after the war...the world was a very unstable place and Britain still had a huge empire to police. The national service recruits bolstered numbers in tension points in Europe as well as colonial outposts. People say these recruits didn’t have the training of the regulars... but their basic training was no different to the lads who entered the First World War and entered the trenches within weeks...same in the second war....
My dad was national service with the South Stafford’s in Germany and Cyprus ...he said they had many “hot” situations. He still knows his army number..... talks about his adventures..... think he had a great time
I wish I went military instead of college in 🇺🇸
I say bring it back and teach these yobs and thugs how to respect other people and teach them a trade
I was due to go in, and my firm appplied for deferment, the wage at that time was one pound eight shillings per week.
I was a national serviceman. I think the wage was twenty-eight and six. Mustn’t forget the sixpence.
During training I travelled between Lincoln and Kings Cross station at the weekend. The cost was twenty-two shillings return. (One pound, ten pence, return!)
Spent the rest of the time in Malaya (as it was known then) and got an overseas allowance. Can’t remember how much. But Australian soldiers got a premium for having to spend time in British camps.
Despite what the gent said, I did get a medal for being in a war zone.
I was too young to be involved but my personal experience was good and bad. I had a cousin who went into the RAF, spent his time after basic training in Germany and came out an alcoholic which ruined and shortened his life. A neighbour went in as a teddy boy tearaway and had a happy useful life after his discharge. If it returned in the woke and weary world of today I feel the military would have to extend its prison spaces substantially. When it ended I was told the wage was around £1 per week. I remember seeing loads of servicemen on leave in uniform. I presume a lot couldn't afford decent clothes.
You could if it's for those that are on the dole and not trying to get a job or starting to get into trouble
Thank you for your service and evey one who did.... I joined the Army as a boy Solider in 1988 at the age of 16. ..... I wish now they would bring back National service. But we have no longer the instructors nore the man power to do this.
You said that National Service ran from 1948 to 1963, so how is it my Father did his National Service from 1947 to 1949? National Service actually ran from 1939 to 1960, although some would not be able to be demobed till 1963, between 1939 and 1948 it was sometime referred to as War Service. My Father was in 1st Durham Light Infantry, did his basic training at Aldershot and was in Greece for 18 months, first in Athens then in Salonica in Northern Greece. Ex National Service Men can apply for a National Service Medal as my Father has one.
My father was conscripted in June 1947 and served in REME. He was demobbed in June 1949, three months after I was born. I served in the RAF from 1965 as an Aircraft Apprentice at RAF Halton and left in 1973 after two tours of duty at RAF Scampton and two years in Singapore.
Dear Alan,
Yes my mistake, but only half a mistake. I had limited myself to a certain length, which necessitated the omission of some detail. So I was right in general terms, and you were right in detail. The National Service Act was passed in March, 1947, and that scooped up your Dad pretty damn quick. The first duration was to be eighteen months. Then the Government apparently got worried because NS was so unpopular with the politicians (it had only just passed the Commons), so they shortened it to twelve months. Then the Communist threat and the Cold War got worse, and the Government restored the 18-month term of service. In 1950, the Korean War broke out, tension got worse again, and the term was lengthened to two years. As a trade-off, the numbers of years in the reserve was reduced. And that was how it stayed, with one possible exception. Lurking at the back of the memory is a titbit that, for a short while, it was extended to three years, but I have no documentary proof. The call-up ended at the close of 1960, not 1963, but the intervening period was taken up with those who had won deferral at the end of the 1950`s. All very interesting, but I couldn`t get it all into the space I had allowed myself. Something had to go. But I hope I was able to convey the general picture. Thank you for being so eagle-eyed. Berwick Coates.
Why are saying that they "joined up" when they were actually forced to do it ?
You could of gone missing for a while not turned up.
I always thought that something like National Service would have been beneficial for the youth of my home country Canada. We had always been a volunteer military (except for a brief period during both World Wars). I served and received an education. Many of my school mates received trades training that served them well in civilian life.
Hi lovely to see so much information on national service. We have recently been working on an online exhibition on this. You can see more at www.national-service.co.uk.
Thank you for sharing. What a great exhibition. www.samebutdifferentcic.org.uk/nationalservice
A great big topic, too much for this chat strip. I tend to support the notion of Service of some form of other. Give your country time and effort, and your country will give you ???