Julius Caesar: Hero of the Proletariat - Michael Parenti’s People’s History of Rome
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 พ.ค. 2023
- The Nietzsche Podcast: anchor.fm/untimely-reflection...
Patreon: www.patreon.com/untimelyreflections
We've now heard Fustel de Coulanges' understanding of the disturbances in Ancient Rome as revolutions brought on by changes to their religious belief structure. We've considered Machiavelli's fawning historical interpretation of Rome, through Livy, as a people who were more virtuous than any other, and maintained that virtue by subjecting themselves to privation and hardship, and who fell into unrest when they strayed from virtue. And we've now heard Turchin's view, that the unrest of the Roman Republic was created by structural-demographic factors. Now, we hear the people's history of Ancient Rome, from Marxist-Leninist Michael Parenti, whose view I wanted to include because it was so different from any other in how he views Julius Caesar and his role in Roman history: as a reformer and liberator of the people, killed by an entrenched oligarchy who wished for nothing other than to hold on to their wealth. Parenti walks through the history of the Late Republic as a history of increasing excesses of the nobility, which was then challenged by people's tribunes and other attempts at reform. In all cases, the nobility put down the reformer, but Caesar was different because he was only assassinated after he'd managed to succeed, and to redistribute the land and the wealth. The legitimacy of the senate was forever shaken, for Caesar was forever the people's champion, and it was thus that it required a civil war afterwards, and only the man who most successfully presented himself as Caesar's heir was able to win and secure order once again - even if he was not revolutionary that Caesar was. Parenti attacks the view of the 'gentleman historians' of Great Britain, and throughout history, who have viewed Rome as a true republic, with democratic representation. Instead, Parenti makes the case that Rome was ruled by a closed-off patriciate who cared for nothing other than their own wealth, and were even willing to undermine the health and stability of their empire in order to extract more. Caesar was the incarnation of this popular uprising into one man, who was willing to break all of the limitations and decorum the nobility had put into place as a means of ensuring that nothing ever changed. Caesar, rather than a tyrannical villain who was justly killed by Brutus, the "noblest Roman of them all", Parenti portrays Caesar as a tragic hero, who was the only hope for saving the republic and achieving justice.
#nietzsche #michaelparenti #marxistleninist #marxism #philosophy #philosophypodcast #historyofphilosophy #ancienthistory #ancientrome
Parenti the goat, as a good marxist, looked at the historical relations of production of the slave society, and the primary means of production in that historical context being land and man. After that analysis, Parenti was not disappointed that Caesar didn't usher in the higher stage of communism out of nothing, but instead showed how Ceasar organized rome in a better way around the land and labor and laborers, and into a freer rome, which you do an honest job of showing here for the most part. Learned a lot from this one, good video
00:00 🎙 The host of the Nietzsche podcast is going on tour with his band, so there will be fewer regular podcast episodes during that time.
01:11 🎤 Instead of interviews, the host will release regular podcast episodes to cover the period when he's on tour.
03:04 📚 The podcast has been discussing modern political thinkers who are influenced by Nietzsche's ideas, even if they don't hold Nietzsche in high regard.
04:56 📖 The episode will focus on Michael Parenti's interpretation of Julius Caesar's rise and fall, challenging the traditional narrative of Caesar as a tyrant.
05:51 🧐 Michael Parenti aims to reframe Julius Caesar as a reformer who was assassinated by a treasonous cabal of the elite, contrasting with the typical portrayal of Caesar as a tyrant.
11:57 🎬 Many cultural representations depict the common people of Rome as bloodthirsty and easily manipulated, perpetuating a biased view of history.
13:48 📝 Parenti emphasizes the influence of aristocratic historians whose views on the common people were often disdainful, shaping our understanding of history.
16:06 💰 The moral values of historical figures like Cicero were influenced by their class position, with Cicero opposing reforms that threatened the aristocracy's power and exploitation.
19:21 ⚔ Caesar's immense power represented a challenge to the entrenched elite's control and their exploitation of the populace, making him a dangerous figure in their eyes.
19:49 🏛 Ancient Roman aristocratic historians viewed as treasonous conspirators against Julius Caesar, protecting their vast stolen estates and the institution of slavery.
20:27 🗡 The phrase "Sic semper tyrannis" used against Caesar is similar to the opposition against Lincoln by aristocrats, revealing a pattern of powerful reformers opposed by elites.
21:10 📚 Michael Parenti's perspective on Caesar isn't simplistic; he acknowledges Caesar's brutality, bribery, and that Caesar was a Roman aristocrat himself.
25:51 👑 Powerful nobility in ancient Rome often allied with common people against kings, inverting the modern understanding of autocracy.
27:32 🏛 Roman political system lacked meaningful checks against oligarchy; Senate held ultimate authority and controlled elections.
36:03 🌟 The tribunate of the people, while initially a protector of plebeians, became co-opted by the Senate, limiting its effectiveness as a democratic office.
38:38 ⚖ The plebeian secession (general strike) was once an effective strategy for plebeians but lost relevance due to the expansion of slavery and dilution of the labor market.
40:17 ⚔ Slave revolts in the late Republic period were common but consistently suppressed, highlighting the lack of success in challenging the elites through rebellion.
40:43 🌍 Servile Wars in Sicily occurred from 135 to 132 BC with 70,000 slaves revolting, but subsequent servile wars also failed.
42:08 💼 In the late Roman Republic, there were two main political factions: the populares, who supported common people's concerns, and the optimates, who aimed to preserve the status quo.
43:05 🌾 The Roman state had public farming lands, and tenant farmers paid rent, forming a middle class. Landless proletarians were excluded from the legions.
44:11 📜 Tiberius Gracchus, in 133 BC, proposed land redistribution through the Lex agraria but was killed for his efforts, leading to the undoing of his reforms.
50:03 ⚔ Gaius Marius adapted the Roman military, waiving property requirements, allowing proletarians to serve, and mitigating the effects of inequality.
57:16 🪶 The Gracchi brothers were revered by the common people even after their deaths, as they tried to address inequality through land reform.
59:07 🏞 Marius advocated for land provision for army veterans and subsidized grain sales, recognizing the value of the proletarians in the military.
01:00:33 🌐 The Social War erupted due to discontent among Italian allies who sought Roman citizenship and voting rights, leading to internal conflict.
01:01:42 📜 Marius and Rufus reached an agreement for a new voting bill, integrating Italian tribes into the voting structure, benefiting both of them.
01:03:16 💔 Marius eventually betrays Sola and collaborates with Rufus, leading to Sola's exile and subsequent return with the support of Lucius Cornelius Cena.
01:05:30 💀 Sola's brutal regime, marked by extensive prescriptions and undoing of land reforms, caused immense suffering and solidified his control over the government.
01:11:27 🏞 Caesar's moderate Land Reform Bill aimed to benefit the landless poor and veterans while acquiring land from public and willing landholders.
01:13:29 💰 Caesar's financial struggles forced him to borrow from Crassus and prioritize the consulship over a Triumph, setting the stage for his political ascent.
01:19:10 ⚔ Caesar's refusal to disband his army and his march on Rome after negotiations with the Senate led to the famous crossing of the Rubicon River, igniting the conflict with Pompeii.
01:21:51 🏛 Caesar crossed the Rubicon in 49 BC with limited forces, welcomed allegiance from Italian towns, and called for Pompey's friendship.
01:23:14 🤝 Caesar showed mercy to senators who remained in Rome, emphasizing his aim for justice and equity.
01:28:47 💼 Caesar implemented various reforms, including land distribution, flood prevention, and limitations on excessive wealth and extravagance.
01:35:17 👑 Caesar's popularity soared, and he expanded the Senate while consolidating his power, even displaying regal symbols.
01:39:26 🗡 Caesar's assassination by senators reflected a pattern of aristocratic opposition to reformers, underestimating the impact of his legacy.
(Note: These takeaways are concise summaries of key points from the transcript.)
01:42:12 🌆 The assassination of Caesar led to civil unrest, with common people rioting and seeking revenge against the murderers.
01:42:52 ⚔ Brutus and Cassius fled the city but failed to reverse Caesar's reforms, eventually confronted and killed by Caesar's successors.
01:43:18 🌟 Despite Caesar's death, his legacy continued as an avenger of his murder, tracking down and punishing the conspirators.
01:45:22 🏛 Caesar's life signifies a transformative force in Roman history, sparking change and reshaping the Roman social order.
01:46:16 ⚡ Caesar is viewed as a lightning strike, an epoch-making figure who alters society and breaks the power of the oligarchy.
01:47:26 📜 Parenti's perspective offers a different narrative of Caesar, challenging the traditional view and encouraging critical analysis of historical accounts.
❤
Difficult to describe just how profoundly absorbing and informative are these lectures.
Parenti certainly had a unique way of telling us about Caesar. He opened up a lot of ideas I always had about the era. Two things in particular. 'The Cataline conspiracy and the character of Cicero. I long had the idea that Cicero was a narcissist and wanted to be remembered in the history books for being Rome's biggest benefactor and savior. In some cheap ways he did that simply because much of his written work has survived. But a lot of historians have doubted just how important he really was. Why we have no cross reference for the Cataline case and why historians (the gentleman historians) always sided with Cicero. Why do we automatically assume Cataline was guilty when there's no proof at all except what Cicero wanted us to believe. Cicero was chasing self aggrandizement imo.
I highly recommend you check out Parenti's book, because there is a chapter on the Catiline conspiracy that I didn't go into during the episode for the sake of time. However, Parenti makes a cogent argument that this was a politically motivated show trial to serve Cicero's ambitions, and that Catiline was being unfairly railroaded. Given the context of everything that had already played out with the Gracchi, etc, we should expect that Catiline would be regarded this way by the Roman historians.
@@untimelyreflections I did read the book and it was Parenti who reaffirmed my suspicions about Cataline, the Gracchi bros, and also the true nature of Milo.. Like I said I doubted all along the character of Cicero, sometimes called 'the most civilized man in Rome' Parenti described him as a slumlord who collected rents and provided little in return. He was also a liar and his works should be taken with a grain of salt.
Big agree on Cicero
First 10k subs takes the longest. This channel is going to snowball so much. The content is all here, people will subscribe in droves soon.
Honestly, it is an authentic luxury to hear your lectures.
Comrade Caesar
I've been a Dan Carlin listener for some time now. Hearing his Celtic Holocaust cited was incredibly satisfying. Both you and Carlin are excellent at covering these subjects in this format.
Carlin is great for the narrative we are used to but he would probably call Parenti and “a revisionist” before siting anything he had to say. But he would never site Parenti let’s be honest
Have a great tour, and at the risk of speaking for everyone, we just want you to know that we appreciate all the work you put into these videos. I discovered your work about a month ago and have not been disappointed yet with anything you have submitted.
You need to do one about Napoleon
Wonderful reading and ruminations, thankyou sir ❤
Thanks for doing what you do. I loved the citing of other references for us listeners, interested in learning more, have to go and do our oen research. I felt you struck a good balance of objectivity in your assessment/commentary too, so 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽 Right on, sir!
LETS GO
awesome content as use
Interesting and relaxing!
Cool band! Glad you mentioned it :)
This is a very interesting point of view. I'm not sure if it's changed my opinion of Caesar personally, but it's definitely changed my opinions on his contemporaries.
I'm a new subscriber. I'll be waiting for 10 videos a week lmao
Love your voice, most audioboks have light voices, i really like your deeper voice
Ah, my beloved Parenti and metal coming together in one video, what more could I ask for?
Wow great podcast brother
Is it wrong that I dont want this channel to grow? I feel like part of a small group of intellectuals listening to some of the most interesting takes on philosophical works and historical events and fear that if the channel grows too much it become like all the others as things do when they become popular. Like it may taint the content or something. I covet these videos and share them, but paradoxically want to keep it jealously to myself. It's strange. On the other hand, if this channel blows up into having millions of subs it would make me feel better about the world I live in, knowing there are so many people interested in this kind of intellectual material. Maybe I'm just a malcontent...
By the way, I'm from Michigan and wished I could have come to your bands' concert in Detroit but its like a 2 hour drive from where I live and I had to work. I'll have to catch you guys next time.
You forgot to talk about Cato the Younger. He was the arch enemy of Caesar 😂
Comrades how Often do you think about the roman empire
Probably at least once a day. I think about the roman revolution pretty often too. Gotta remember the comrade Gracchi brothers
Who know how he was, i think he was a Hero to the poorest roman people, many people hated the murder on him so he must been quite popular.
Excellent analysis!
Nice video Salt. It's interesting how facetiously the law was treated at times in Rome. Some of the times within the time span covered by this video alone are blatant barbarism of just killing the majority ruler at the place of voting because you got a private army of murderers and criminals.
I'd certainly hate the shit out of the Romans if they ruled today, but we should be good and judge them according to their time; Everyone else, everywhere else, was worse
Hail Caesar
Let's be fair about Claudius/Clodius; he was willing to set loose mercenaries on the proletariat & other classes while they were voting, as he did when the vote in the public assembly to repeal cicero's exile happened. Simply stating he was for ending slavery is a rather short sighted & narrow interpretation of the man, no? He was a patrician who lost the favor of his fellow patricians due to a scandal (trying to sleep with Caesar's) & sacrilege & this went all in on the populist platform for political survival.
Like Caesar, Clodius is complicated (all too human?) & I find Parretti & your own interpretation to be too two demintional, while agreeing in general that the common held view of caesar is itself too 2D also.
While I am not a Marxist & find some of your perspective off putting, I general have enjoyed your channel; thank you.
💯 Clodius was a WILD boi, hearing him summed up in a sentence as slave reform hero is kinda hilarious.
juliUS
Great work. However, he underestimates JC's good intentions for the people.
First
I dont think you can say so. … of the Proletariat. That is far too much said and very wrong. The Populari were sth more and different from the Proletariat. Catilina wanted to be the hero of the Mob but Caesar definitively not. Everything a Marxist today says is totally wrong, either a lie or a misunderstanding. Marx himself wouldnt have said that, no way.
Michael Hudson is a Marxist.. what about his book "SuperImperialism" do you claim is a lie or misunderstanding? You are the one with the misunderstanding considering you think all Marxist's work exists to somehow speak for Karl Marx's personal opinions lol that's not what being a Marxist means.. There are sets of wide ranging views that share a common simplified label "marxist" because they share a common critique of capitalism. And obviously the Populari were "different from the Proletariat" .. That's not profound to point at two different things and call them different things, you're stating the obvious and ignoring the point of the comparison which was to point to the similarities between the two in the context of the fact that capitalism didn't exist in antiquity.. the proletariat only exists in the context of capitalism.. obviously it can't exist in antiquity for that reason and that should go without saying. You are the only one claiming to speak on Marx's behalf and you are the one who knows the least about him.
The name proletarius (producer of offspring), which the name proletariat derives, was a social class of Roman citizens and was the lowest class registered during the census throughout the roman history. Using that term is not wrong even if this is not exactly what a modern interpretation suggests. Marx himself among other European scholars of the 19th century used this roman term to represent the working class created under capitalism which is the equivalent to the poorest class of ancient rome.
The Populari was a political trend like a Party, not a class.