For me it has always been like this: Beginners go wrong, because they do not know rules Intermediates go wrong, because they know too many rules Masters break rules
@@kulaniwarner7262There are novels which dispel the illusion of rules. *Ulysses* James Joyce. *Zeno's Conscience* Italo Svevo. *The Sound and the Fury* William Faulkner. *At Swim Two Birds* Flann O'Brien. *The Lime Twig* John Hawkes. *Wise Blood* Flannery O'Connor. *Clock Without Hands* Carson McCullers. *The Tunnel* William H Gass. *The Tin Drum* Gunter Grass. *The Recognitions* William Gaddis. *The Left Hand of Darkness* Ursula Le Guin. *The Martian Chronicles* Ray Bradbury. *The Ogre* Michel Tournier. *If On A Winter's Night* Italo Calvino. *Underworld* Don DeLillo. *The Gallery* John Horne Burns. **The Sun's Attendant* Charles Haldeman. *Memento Mori* Muriel Spark. *The Adventures of Augie March* Saul Bellow. *Invisible Man* Ralph Ellison. And let us not forget *The Catcher in the Rye*. A soldier in France during WWII opened Salinger's kitbag when the writer wasn't looking, and was disappointed that the manuscript was not a war novel, just the incoherent rambles of a mixed-up adolescent boy ... which would sell 65 million copies.
The above were written decades ago: here are new paperback fiction titles which scramble the rules. *Bestiary* by K-Ming Chang. *Mrs Death Misses Death* by Salena Godden. *The Comfort of Monsters* by Willa C Richards. Jenny Erpenbeck has a book of essays just out in paperback *Not A Novel*. Kate Atkinson's novel about WWII *A God in Ruins* (2015) reminded me of E.M. Forster's advice to writers: *Surprise me with the believable,* Forster said. Forster's novel *Howard's End* (1910) reads as fresh as ever. Forster admired J.R. Ackerley (1896-1967) who wrote *My Dog Tulip* and *We Think the World of You* filmed in 1988. Truman Capote said Ackerley's memoir *My Father and Myself* (1968) was the most original autobiography he had read.
I adore this video, learning writing has been extremely difficult and I’ve been working at it my whole life. There’s so much that’s unsaid, and you must learn to read between the lines. There were some rules that everyone I asked only gave part of the answer, it’s taken years to finally understand every aspect of specific types of writing. I’m finally deconstructing the craft, I’ve never been able to do that, I just knew that I liked something, but not WHY it was good. Now I understand why.
I came across your channel last week and have probably watched through a good 30% of all the videos you've made at this point. They're all so informative, and more importantly, they instill a sense of accountability in me to take what I've learned and actually write more. For way too long I was paralyzed by aiming for perfection and I've had to reconfigure my brain a bit to allow myself to make mistakes - and to understand that the "perfection or bust" mentality was just a veil to hide my own insecurities in the craft. By turning my brain off and just writing, I've found it fun again after YEARS of finding it exhausting. Thank you so much and keep up the excellent videos!
There is a famous phrase-you can break any rule if you know you are breaking it. It originally applied in the context of formatting/document outlining, but it applies to writing too, I think.
So many good quotes in this video! "Rules are like training wheels" "Rules are there to avoid pitfalls" Would love more examples in future discussions on this topic! I'd absolutely watch an hour of you breaking rules.
Yes! Yes! Yes! Shaelin is so right yet again. It feels so good when the story or poem just flows and it's okay if your work doesn't follow any of the rules! Because of this it makes your work uniquely yours. It creates your voice.
Excellent points made. I’m currently writing a graphic novel script and there is little to none of way of technical advice about how to go about it from a pure writer side of book tube, I luckily have an artist to help me with the graphic side of the novel. I have experience writing for college, so understanding the technical side of writing is easy now, so I really get where your coming from. Only now am I really experiencing the art side of writing, where I’m less concerned about how to get whatever scene across but now more of the why, or what this moment or symbols may say about the over all tone. All in all having to be way more creative, conscientious and artistic to do this writing project has been a fun so far, Thanks for the vids they’ve been a huge help.
Here is some technical advice on how to write a graphic novel: th-cam.com/video/F91zrqbnI_4/w-d-xo.html It also helps to write specific instructions for what you want your artist to draw so that more can be conveyed without words. Rather than have a one or two page scene to establish the poor relationship of a long married couple you could show them in the elevator of their apartment building standing together as a tall blonde woman enters on a high floor. Then show the husband looking at the blonde. Then show that the elevator has arrived at the lobby and the blonde is already walking out, her long legs visible, and the wife now stepped away from her husband, so it is implied that she is sick of his repeated pattern of past infidelity. All this is done without dialogue bubbles across three panels, so you still have another six on that page for other stuff. Sometimes this technique is used in screenplays (this is where I got this from, from a TH-cam video I can't remember the title of), but it is generally unpopular with directors and therefore also producers as they like to be able to stage their interpretation of the script without being told what happens where in the _mise en scene._ This is legitimate in comic books and graphic novels, but you need to listen to what your artist has to contribute as they can have better ideas than you on how to optimise the flow of the narrative by relying on images. Another mistake I see people make is having inconsistent geography within the scene. Draw a map of where all your characters are as seen from above and do not flip the camera which is being used to observe the action to locations that don't make sense (i.e. a truck driver was standing beside his vehicle in one frame, but in the next he is no longer on the driver's side because there was a need to reorient the camera to show the building he was about to walk into and the truck would have obscured him, so it looks like he magically teleported to the passenger side door, when having him walking in the direction of the back of the vehicle in the first frame, then seen up inside the open rear of the truck getting a package, then walking into the building with the truck correctly reflected in the building's window, would avoid these geographical errors that pull your reader out of their immersion in the narrative). I bought this Neil Gaiman graphic novel recently, and I thought it did a pretty good job of things: www.amazon.co.uk/Snow-Glass-Apples-Neil-Gaiman/dp/1472262913/ref=sr_1_16?crid=2RSKFXNMTH43W&keywords=neil+gaiman&qid=1645214269&sprefix=neil+gaiman%2Caps%2C70&sr=8-16 You can click "Look inside..." to get a Preview. What is interesting is the general lack of panels. Good luck with your graphic novel.
"I find that it's one of the things that's missing from the AuthorTube mode of learning…many things are missing from the AuthorTube mode of learning" damn Shaelin tell us what you really think
Lol I think as someone who teaches on the platform I'm just very aware of the limits of the platform!! It's not the fault of any creators, it's just that short videos on craft are great for supplementary discussions on writing but ultimately can't provide a fully rounded education in writing.
Well fucking said ;) Critical thinking is a skill you can’t really appreciate until you understand it’s true value. The concept you covered for writing applies across the board. Knowledge is a rumour until it lives in the bones.
I’m trying to get back into writing my story called the fairytales of cotton candy land I noticed that it’s A) Not supposed to be a novel B) not supposed to be focused on a central main character ; it’s supposed to tell stories between different characters in the same universe C) is a fairytale , keep it sweet and simple Those are my rules of my story and If I follow anything else like the three act structure I get lost and not understand what I want this story to be. My advice is if your writing a story know what you want it to be whether it’s obviously a novella or a novel ... I don’t even know how many words yet but it’s a journey to figure out as a novice writer... Also don’t focus on am I a professional writer or not because the truth is , it doesn’t matter how much of a professional writer you are, your story will never be perfect. I feel what really matters is if you love the story you crafted not if it’s a Stephen Kings book.
Absolutely love this video! The message is so strong and necessary. As someone who has benefitted from the rules a lot and then very slowly learned to write my stories my own way, this is a very genuine discussion on the topic of rules vs. craft. I make several mistakes even now, but it's important to prioritise the story over the rules. Because the rules exist for the writer, not the writer for rules.
You are definitely the only author/book-tuber I absolutely love to follow. I hear so much of the same writing advice that lack an insight about when it should and should not be used, without a proper explanation. You make it understandable and usable.
I did the same a year ago I agree 💯. You probably found her videos on Reedsy as well there just a good. No real difference actually but other people with great information as well.
Amazing video! A lot of writing rules drive me crazy because people believe that they are universal. They are not, you must apply them considering your genre and style. Also a lot of things depend on your skill, prologues are hated merely because people can't write them well.
I'm very pleased with the way you framed this. And I could not agree more. There are rules that are just plain ridiculous and stupid, there are rules that may or may not have some value, depending, and there are rules that I consider strong enough to never break. I can only think of two that I feel are inviolable, which are 'Don't tell the reader what they already know' (this does not apply to non-redundant repetition done for a specific purpose), and 'Don't confuse the reader'. Most rules are honestly not that well thought out and have the disadvantage of being able to confuse the writer and intimidate the writer, even if their intent is good. But those two rules are my North Star. I'll never break them. Inexplicably, what I seem to hear a lot lately is 'put a difficult dilemma decision in every single scene, or your story just won't work'. But when I read really good books, this never seems to be the case. Masterworks authors have essentially broken that rule over and over, and still were able to write a story expertly.
another excellent video. frankly, i need to remember that i know the rules well enough to know that i don't need to follow them. i need to remember to have more confidence in myself with these things. (especially because i have tried many novels of late where i do NOT LIKE the way the rules are being adhered to so strictly.)
This is my new favorite video. Thank you Shaelin for elucidating this concept so brilliantly. This warms my heart, and I hope every writer gets the chance to see it. 💯
If I may. Rules are the same as recipes. If you don't know how to cook or your cooking experience is very limited then recipes are very useful. If, however, you know how to cook, you know how ingredients play with one another; you know how temperature and time affects the way proteins behave and how carbohydrates and simple sugars behave then you do not need a recipe. You can take three or four ingredients and make a delicious meal. The novice cook is unlikely to produce the same quality dish from those same four ingredients without a recipe.
That's a great analogy! Like I said in the video, writers who are experienced and knowledgeable on writing craft don't need rules anymore because they understand the elements (or ingredients) but for that same reason, the rules are helpful for beginners who don't know all the possible applications or qualities of different elements.
Not me commenting on a video from two years ago but anyway I love your channel because a lot of the 'serious' writing channels are like you have to outline! you have to follow these rules! you have to x y z! and I love that you understand that writing is an art AND a science IE exactly what you're saying in this video. And as someone who's a discovery writer and has been figuring out how to balance my love of the art with my love of the craft (and not getting overwhelmed by the rules) I find your perspective invaluable. I reference your videos constantly as study guides. Anyway hope this comment isn't too long basically your channel is the best and you Get It
Dang. This is probably my favourite video on writing I've watched. There are so many nuggets of wisdom that can apply to other creative fields, and also life in general.
Always great 👍. I see new people are finding your channel and watching them all as I did. I'm so glad you haven't pulled many of your old videos there all still very informative. They haven't aged at all.
I think the toughest thing is to know when you are ready to "transcend" the rules. A lot of people tend to believe that they are already masters who "work in their own style", "disregard the artificial boundaries", and so on, but in fact are beginners who simply don’t even want to put on the "training wheels". The problem is that in writing, unlike cycling, you don't know when you fall. It is hard to see how bad/good one's writing actually is. Even established authors can sometimes get sloppy, thinking that they are now "established enough" to break rules. I think that is part of the reason we see sequels/series that are not even close to the first book in terms of quality. So while I agree with what you are saying. Practically, one should be very cautious when applying this advice.
I think the way to know is to have a solid foundation of writing craft. Otherwise, if you're just deciding to abandon the rules at some point, you have nothing guiding you. However, if an author gets to a point where breaking a rule makes sense for their story, and they understand why from a craft perspective breaking this rule actually makes the story stronger, then that is a well informed decision, and a sign that their understanding of craft is strong and they've probably outgrown rules intended for beginners. If someone isn't actively trying to learn and improve their craft, it will get hard for them to progress beyond this stage.
Rules are not craft: well said. To misquote Christina Rossetti: Rules like pie-crust are made to be broken. Sheila Heti broke them in *Motherhood* and *How Should A Person Be?* and so did Ann Quinn. *The Brilliance of Ann Quinn* by Joshua Cohen. The Paris Review online. November 9, 2020. Sally Bayley broke all the rules in her second volume of witty memoirs *No Boys Play Here* now in paperback. Shakespeare's tragic heroes, doomed kings and transgressive clowns interact with her rowdy working-class family life in England. A book I always wanted to read, and didn't know it, until it waylaid me, in the sedate section of Lit Crit in Waterstones.
I hate the "show, don't tell". For some people, this is like the biggest advice anyone can receive. And i was like... "Charles Dickens, Shakespeare, Jane Austen and pretty much most authors before Chekov isnt valid? Like, theirs stories is worst because of this?"
Great analogy when you correlate rules to training wheels. Rules can perhaps even hold you back from growth when you’ve reached a certain point. Awesome video.
God, you're so awesome!!! One best example of a book not following the rules is Gone Girl by Gillian Flynn. God, that book is so witty. First time I read a book where there are 'quizzes' on it, you know what I mean when you read it. Gillian broke all the rules. Her brain is brilliant.
These are the things that feel like they should be obvious. The way I see it, the readers won't follow the same rules that the author does. So to adhere strictly to a "traditional" or "professional" style of moving through a story and expecting the reader to do the same *fails immediately.* But at the same time, words have very set meanings in their language and sentences have a rhythm. When you piece the elements together, you can make an educated guess what they'll do. I try not to think too hard about it. I overthink too much as it is.
Shaelin, I would love to break the rules with you, but as co-writer, to one of the biggest novels I would love to write, 150k or more...maybe later down the road. I already know, what the story is about and how it ends I need to just write it. Not sure if I would really want a co-writer, but I could see it would be a story you could fall in love with writing, together with me. On the other point, don't think this only applies to just writing, when breaking the rules. It's in everything in life. From music, to the martial arts, to electronics. I could go on and on, because the principals and understanding things well enough, you can do anything. But...yes there's a but.. if you go watch my heart LED electronic project, I saw a guy do the same thing, but I questioned why he didn't do it like I saw it in my head and simplified things. Even though I didn't think about the theory or anything based on electronics, I just saw a more simple way of doing it, and did it. Which is probably no different with being able to apply such theory and principles to writing. Because it is a craft, an art form, and it can be beautiful.
Rules seem to me like creative constraints. If a beginner looks at all the possible things that can be done, that's overwhelming. But rules narrow down the options so you can channel your creativity more effectively. Without rules, a beginner could be paralysed by too many options. But as you gain more experience, you get more capacity to wrangle all the options, so you don't need the rules any more.
I havent watched the video yet but I'm wondering if you've heard of oranges are not the only fruit? It reminded me of your short story, I cant remember the name but it's the one with the girls in the religious community
Agreed with the rules being training wheels. Also like to add one thing every new writer seems to do; stop trying to be clever and funny. I read so many books where there's a flow to the story and the author can't help himself and makes the character's say a snarky joke. It derails the pacing, yes comedy is subjective but when i feel its there just because the writer that it was clever funny joke it loses many readers.
Okay, this made me have a thought I think you can kinda split this into Langauge and Story? Langauge has the rules, you don't question them. Grammar dictates this word comes after this word, and that periods end a sentence. Things like spelling are absolute. These are things you can kinda play around with, but barely, since it has strict rules. Story has more of guidelines. I think it's major rule is just "make it interesting." Yes, you probably shouldn't put in a scene of your character eating breakfast. Most of the time, it's far too boring and mundane, but if you have a way to make it *interesting*, go for it. Feel adjectives or adverbs really spice up the sentence and it feels bland without them? Keep em in. Nothing is off the table, as long as it's interesting. I guess another Story rule is like... it needs to have a beginning, middle, and end. But novels are full of them! A sentence has these three phases. You can take that as big or as small as you like. Also, stories aren't just told with words. Stories can be told with pictures, hand motions, dance, and so on. They're very fluid with how they can be told and what they can be told with, which kinda makes it easier to bend these "rules" you hear. ....I have no clue if I made any sense, my thought process was clearer in my head pfft
Thanks again for another interesting and insightful vlog. And just wondering, have you ever done a vlog about the different between passive voice and other things? Only asking because it is a nagging headache that sometimes I can't write because when I do write a good scene but then that negative thinking starts with their questions. I am not that young and my brain keeps in a simple version of writing process. Just the basic, not the passive voice and other things bla bla bla. And also, there might be a few videos about passive voice, but it would be interesting from your point of view.
I don't really consider myself a grammar expert, so I typically avoid making videos about grammatical topics, but I did do a video on passive voice on the Reedsy channel! If you search 'reedsy passive voice' you'll find it.
Hey Hi! I have no experience in writing. To be frank, I don’t have any relation with creative stuff in my day to day life. I do mergers and acquisitions for a living. However, I had this urge to write for quite sometime. When I started my own little research 10 days back, all I am doing is watching yours and Brandon Sanderson’s videos (Out of all the stuff out here) .. anyway, I would like to make a weird request. If by any chance it’s possible for you to review just 2 pages of my writing and suggest if it’s worth even trying. I would be grateful .. it might help me understand this is not my cup of tea 😝Thanks!
I don’t think that’s what she’s trying to say. The rules are necessary for beginners because they start to create a shape and basic understanding of the skill you are learning. I wouldn’t recommend you write without the basic education but I’m a no one from no where simply making an observation based on my perspective and interpretation of what this video was saying.
There’s a lot of value here, but it’s advice that’s also fraught with danger for amateur writers. “Following the rules” is in my view a long, difficult learning process. One has to *earn* the right to break those rules. This takes time, and usually involves concrete, measurable success and achievement. Picasso broke the rules, yes, but go back and look at his early, representational work. He earned the right to break those rules. And one should always (humbly) ask: Am I really Tolkien, or Austen, or Stephen King? Just my two cents, of course.
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 88 | คู่เอก "ป้อมเพชร vs อัสลามจอน"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1ZqTVVbMgbo/mqdefault.jpg)
For me it has always been like this:
Beginners go wrong, because they do not know rules
Intermediates go wrong, because they know too many rules
Masters break rules
It would probably be more accurate to say masters dispel the illusion of rules with true understanding. (She stated in an un-douchey way:)
@@kulaniwarner7262There are novels which dispel the illusion of rules.
*Ulysses* James Joyce. *Zeno's Conscience* Italo Svevo.
*The Sound and the Fury* William Faulkner. *At Swim Two Birds* Flann O'Brien.
*The Lime Twig* John Hawkes. *Wise Blood* Flannery O'Connor.
*Clock Without Hands* Carson McCullers. *The Tunnel* William H Gass.
*The Tin Drum* Gunter Grass. *The Recognitions* William Gaddis.
*The Left Hand of Darkness* Ursula Le Guin. *The Martian Chronicles* Ray Bradbury.
*The Ogre* Michel Tournier. *If On A Winter's Night* Italo Calvino.
*Underworld* Don DeLillo. *The Gallery* John Horne Burns.
**The Sun's Attendant* Charles Haldeman. *Memento Mori* Muriel Spark.
*The Adventures of Augie March* Saul Bellow. *Invisible Man* Ralph Ellison.
And let us not forget *The Catcher in the Rye*.
A soldier in France during WWII opened Salinger's kitbag when the writer wasn't looking, and was disappointed that the manuscript was not a war novel, just the incoherent rambles of a mixed-up adolescent boy ... which would sell 65 million copies.
The above were written decades ago: here are new paperback fiction titles which scramble the rules.
*Bestiary* by K-Ming Chang. *Mrs Death Misses Death* by Salena Godden. *The Comfort of Monsters* by Willa C Richards.
Jenny Erpenbeck has a book of essays just out in paperback *Not A Novel*.
Kate Atkinson's novel about WWII *A God in Ruins* (2015) reminded me of E.M. Forster's advice to writers:
*Surprise me with the believable,* Forster said. Forster's novel *Howard's End* (1910) reads as fresh as ever.
Forster admired J.R. Ackerley (1896-1967) who wrote *My Dog Tulip* and *We Think the World of You* filmed in 1988.
Truman Capote said Ackerley's memoir *My Father and Myself* (1968) was the most original autobiography he had read.
pretty much how it is in every profession. Before you break the rules make sure you understand them
I adore this video, learning writing has been extremely difficult and I’ve been working at it my whole life. There’s so much that’s unsaid, and you must learn to read between the lines. There were some rules that everyone I asked only gave part of the answer, it’s taken years to finally understand every aspect of specific types of writing. I’m finally deconstructing the craft, I’ve never been able to do that, I just knew that I liked something, but not WHY it was good. Now I understand why.
I came across your channel last week and have probably watched through a good 30% of all the videos you've made at this point. They're all so informative, and more importantly, they instill a sense of accountability in me to take what I've learned and actually write more. For way too long I was paralyzed by aiming for perfection and I've had to reconfigure my brain a bit to allow myself to make mistakes - and to understand that the "perfection or bust" mentality was just a veil to hide my own insecurities in the craft. By turning my brain off and just writing, I've found it fun again after YEARS of finding it exhausting. Thank you so much and keep up the excellent videos!
There is a famous phrase-you can break any rule if you know you are breaking it. It originally applied in the context of formatting/document outlining, but it applies to writing too, I think.
I like to think of 'rules' as prescriptions-if your prose is already healthy you don't need them but you should be mindful of them.
So many good quotes in this video! "Rules are like training wheels"
"Rules are there to avoid pitfalls"
Would love more examples in future discussions on this topic! I'd absolutely watch an hour of you breaking rules.
Yes! Yes! Yes! Shaelin is so right yet again. It feels so good when the story or poem just flows and it's okay if your work doesn't follow any of the rules! Because of this it makes your work uniquely yours. It creates your voice.
Absolutely!
Excellent points made. I’m currently writing a graphic novel script and there is little to none of way of technical advice about how to go about it from a pure writer side of book tube, I luckily have an artist to help me with the graphic side of the novel. I have experience writing for college, so understanding the technical side of writing is easy now, so I really get where your coming from. Only now am I really experiencing the art side of writing, where I’m less concerned about how to get whatever scene across but now more of the why, or what this moment or symbols may say about the over all tone. All in all having to be way more creative, conscientious and artistic to do this writing project has been a fun so far, Thanks for the vids they’ve been a huge help.
That sounds like a really cool project!!
Here is some technical advice on how to write a graphic novel:
th-cam.com/video/F91zrqbnI_4/w-d-xo.html
It also helps to write specific instructions for what you want your artist to draw so that more can be conveyed without words. Rather than have a one or two page scene to establish the poor relationship of a long married couple you could show them in the elevator of their apartment building standing together as a tall blonde woman enters on a high floor. Then show the husband looking at the blonde. Then show that the elevator has arrived at the lobby and the blonde is already walking out, her long legs visible, and the wife now stepped away from her husband, so it is implied that she is sick of his repeated pattern of past infidelity. All this is done without dialogue bubbles across three panels, so you still have another six on that page for other stuff.
Sometimes this technique is used in screenplays (this is where I got this from, from a TH-cam video I can't remember the title of), but it is generally unpopular with directors and therefore also producers as they like to be able to stage their interpretation of the script without being told what happens where in the _mise en scene._ This is legitimate in comic books and graphic novels, but you need to listen to what your artist has to contribute as they can have better ideas than you on how to optimise the flow of the narrative by relying on images.
Another mistake I see people make is having inconsistent geography within the scene. Draw a map of where all your characters are as seen from above and do not flip the camera which is being used to observe the action to locations that don't make sense (i.e. a truck driver was standing beside his vehicle in one frame, but in the next he is no longer on the driver's side because there was a need to reorient the camera to show the building he was about to walk into and the truck would have obscured him, so it looks like he magically teleported to the passenger side door, when having him walking in the direction of the back of the vehicle in the first frame, then seen up inside the open rear of the truck getting a package, then walking into the building with the truck correctly reflected in the building's window, would avoid these geographical errors that pull your reader out of their immersion in the narrative).
I bought this Neil Gaiman graphic novel recently, and I thought it did a pretty good job of things:
www.amazon.co.uk/Snow-Glass-Apples-Neil-Gaiman/dp/1472262913/ref=sr_1_16?crid=2RSKFXNMTH43W&keywords=neil+gaiman&qid=1645214269&sprefix=neil+gaiman%2Caps%2C70&sr=8-16
You can click "Look inside..." to get a Preview. What is interesting is the general lack of panels. Good luck with your graphic novel.
"I find that it's one of the things that's missing from the AuthorTube mode of learning…many things are missing from the AuthorTube mode of learning"
damn Shaelin tell us what you really think
Lol I think as someone who teaches on the platform I'm just very aware of the limits of the platform!! It's not the fault of any creators, it's just that short videos on craft are great for supplementary discussions on writing but ultimately can't provide a fully rounded education in writing.
Well fucking said ;) Critical thinking is a skill you can’t really appreciate until you understand it’s true value. The concept you covered for writing applies across the board. Knowledge is a rumour until it lives in the bones.
I’m trying to get back into writing my story called the fairytales of cotton candy land I noticed that it’s
A) Not supposed to be a novel
B) not supposed to be focused on a central main character ; it’s supposed to tell stories between different characters in the same universe
C) is a fairytale , keep it sweet and simple
Those are my rules of my story and If I follow anything else like the three act structure I get lost and not understand what I want this story to be.
My advice is if your writing a story know what you want it to be whether it’s obviously a novella or a novel ... I don’t even know how many words yet but it’s a journey to figure out as a novice writer...
Also don’t focus on am I a professional writer or not because the truth is , it doesn’t matter how much of a professional writer you are, your story will never be perfect. I feel what really matters is if you love the story you crafted not if it’s a Stephen Kings book.
Absolutely love this video! The message is so strong and necessary. As someone who has benefitted from the rules a lot and then very slowly learned to write my stories my own way, this is a very genuine discussion on the topic of rules vs. craft. I make several mistakes even now, but it's important to prioritise the story over the rules. Because the rules exist for the writer, not the writer for rules.
You are definitely the only author/book-tuber I absolutely love to follow. I hear so much of the same writing advice that lack an insight about when it should and should not be used, without a proper explanation. You make it understandable and usable.
Just discovered your channel today and binged through so many videos. They've helped me so much and I'm less frustrated now! Thank you😊
I did the same a year ago I agree 💯. You probably found her videos on Reedsy as well there just a good. No real difference actually but other people with great information as well.
Amazing video! A lot of writing rules drive me crazy because people believe that they are universal. They are not, you must apply them considering your genre and style. Also a lot of things depend on your skill, prologues are hated merely because people can't write them well.
I'm very pleased with the way you framed this. And I could not agree more.
There are rules that are just plain ridiculous and stupid, there are rules that may or may not have some value, depending, and there are rules that I consider strong enough to never break.
I can only think of two that I feel are inviolable, which are 'Don't tell the reader what they already know' (this does not apply to non-redundant repetition done for a specific purpose), and 'Don't confuse the reader'. Most rules are honestly not that well thought out and have the disadvantage of being able to confuse the writer and intimidate the writer, even if their intent is good. But those two rules are my North Star. I'll never break them.
Inexplicably, what I seem to hear a lot lately is 'put a difficult dilemma decision in every single scene, or your story just won't work'. But when I read really good books, this never seems to be the case. Masterworks authors have essentially broken that rule over and over, and still were able to write a story expertly.
You make me passionate about writing like no other. Thank you for existing
another excellent video. frankly, i need to remember that i know the rules well enough to know that i don't need to follow them.
i need to remember to have more confidence in myself with these things. (especially because i have tried many novels of late where i do NOT LIKE the way the rules are being adhered to so strictly.)
This is my new favorite video. Thank you Shaelin for elucidating this concept so brilliantly. This warms my heart, and I hope every writer gets the chance to see it. 💯
If I may. Rules are the same as recipes. If you don't know how to cook or your cooking experience is very limited then recipes are very useful. If, however, you know how to cook, you know how ingredients play with one another; you know how temperature and time affects the way proteins behave and how carbohydrates and simple sugars behave then you do not need a recipe. You can take three or four ingredients and make a delicious meal. The novice cook is unlikely to produce the same quality dish from those same four ingredients without a recipe.
That's a great analogy! Like I said in the video, writers who are experienced and knowledgeable on writing craft don't need rules anymore because they understand the elements (or ingredients) but for that same reason, the rules are helpful for beginners who don't know all the possible applications or qualities of different elements.
I’m very happy to hear you say all this. Nobody should feel restricted to this or that rule, as writing is one of the most flexible art forms.
Not me commenting on a video from two years ago but anyway I love your channel because a lot of the 'serious' writing channels are like you have to outline! you have to follow these rules! you have to x y z! and I love that you understand that writing is an art AND a science IE exactly what you're saying in this video. And as someone who's a discovery writer and has been figuring out how to balance my love of the art with my love of the craft (and not getting overwhelmed by the rules) I find your perspective invaluable. I reference your videos constantly as study guides. Anyway hope this comment isn't too long basically your channel is the best and you Get It
Dang. This is probably my favourite video on writing I've watched. There are so many nuggets of wisdom that can apply to other creative fields, and also life in general.
Congratulations on 90k! The rapid growth of your channel makes me so happy
Always great 👍. I see new people are finding your channel and watching them all as I did. I'm so glad you haven't pulled many of your old videos there all still very informative. They haven't aged at all.
I think the toughest thing is to know when you are ready to "transcend" the rules. A lot of people tend to believe that they are already masters who "work in their own style", "disregard the artificial boundaries", and so on, but in fact are beginners who simply don’t even want to put on the "training wheels". The problem is that in writing, unlike cycling, you don't know when you fall. It is hard to see how bad/good one's writing actually is.
Even established authors can sometimes get sloppy, thinking that they are now "established enough" to break rules. I think that is part of the reason we see sequels/series that are not even close to the first book in terms of quality.
So while I agree with what you are saying. Practically, one should be very cautious when applying this advice.
I think the way to know is to have a solid foundation of writing craft. Otherwise, if you're just deciding to abandon the rules at some point, you have nothing guiding you. However, if an author gets to a point where breaking a rule makes sense for their story, and they understand why from a craft perspective breaking this rule actually makes the story stronger, then that is a well informed decision, and a sign that their understanding of craft is strong and they've probably outgrown rules intended for beginners. If someone isn't actively trying to learn and improve their craft, it will get hard for them to progress beyond this stage.
omg ive been getting to this point n thinking ab this very hard lately, it’s so agreeable hearing u perfectly put it into words
rules are best used while editing, get it out first and worry about editing later
I'm so glad someone finally made this video. I've been waiting for it forever haha. This is one of my favorite videos of yours now.
Rules are not craft: well said.
To misquote Christina Rossetti: Rules like pie-crust are made to be broken.
Sheila Heti broke them in *Motherhood* and *How Should A Person Be?* and so did Ann Quinn.
*The Brilliance of Ann Quinn* by Joshua Cohen. The Paris Review online. November 9, 2020.
Sally Bayley broke all the rules in her second volume of witty memoirs *No Boys Play Here* now in paperback.
Shakespeare's tragic heroes, doomed kings and transgressive clowns interact with her rowdy working-class family life in England.
A book I always wanted to read, and didn't know it, until it waylaid me, in the sedate section of Lit Crit in Waterstones.
YESSSS SHAELIN here with the good stuff thank you!
I have an addiction to collect notes on rules and craft and never write my stories. I’ve been doing this for 7 years but this video helps….hopefully.
I hate the "show, don't tell". For some people, this is like the biggest advice anyone can receive. And i was like... "Charles Dickens, Shakespeare, Jane Austen and pretty much most authors before Chekov isnt valid? Like, theirs stories is worst because of this?"
Great analogy when you correlate rules to training wheels. Rules can perhaps even hold you back from growth when you’ve reached a certain point. Awesome video.
I think calling them "rules" is the root of the problem. They're not rules. They're advice.
God, you're so awesome!!! One best example of a book not following the rules is Gone Girl by Gillian Flynn. God, that book is so witty. First time I read a book where there are 'quizzes' on it, you know what I mean when you read it. Gillian broke all the rules. Her brain is brilliant.
Summary: Writing rules = guidelines
Gratitude for sharing, May this open & revector the discourse constructively. Here we go on the path to NovelCraft & StoryCraft
These are the things that feel like they should be obvious.
The way I see it, the readers won't follow the same rules that the author does. So to adhere strictly to a "traditional" or "professional" style of moving through a story and expecting the reader to do the same *fails immediately.*
But at the same time, words have very set meanings in their language and sentences have a rhythm. When you piece the elements together, you can make an educated guess what they'll do.
I try not to think too hard about it. I overthink too much as it is.
Shaelin, I would love to break the rules with you, but as co-writer, to one of the biggest novels I would love to write, 150k or more...maybe later down the road.
I already know, what the story is about and how it ends I need to just write it. Not sure if I would really want a co-writer, but I could see it would be a story you could fall in love with writing, together with me.
On the other point, don't think this only applies to just writing, when breaking the rules. It's in everything in life. From music, to the martial arts, to electronics. I could go on and on, because the principals and understanding things well enough, you can do anything.
But...yes there's a but.. if you go watch my heart LED electronic project, I saw a guy do the same thing, but I questioned why he didn't do it like I saw it in my head and simplified things.
Even though I didn't think about the theory or anything based on electronics, I just saw a more simple way of doing it, and did it.
Which is probably no different with being able to apply such theory and principles to writing. Because it is a craft, an art form, and it can be beautiful.
Rules seem to me like creative constraints. If a beginner looks at all the possible things that can be done, that's overwhelming. But rules narrow down the options so you can channel your creativity more effectively. Without rules, a beginner could be paralysed by too many options. But as you gain more experience, you get more capacity to wrangle all the options, so you don't need the rules any more.
I've forgotten the rules, so it's fine. 😅🤣💜💚💜
I havent watched the video yet but I'm wondering if you've heard of oranges are not the only fruit? It reminded me of your short story, I cant remember the name but it's the one with the girls in the religious community
It's an English evangelical community where the girl leaves at 16 to be with another girl they converted
I haven't heard of it, but I'll check it out! It sounds like something I'd love!
@@ShaelinWrites yeah I feel like you would! I think it's set in the 70s as well in Lancashire
Thanks - again! I'm going to incorporate a 'Shaelin' in my book - what kind of character do you want to be?
This has been really helpful! Are there any pointers and places to learn craft some more?
Agreed with the rules being training wheels. Also like to add one thing every new writer seems to do; stop trying to be clever and funny. I read so many books where there's a flow to the story and the author can't help himself and makes the character's say a snarky joke. It derails the pacing, yes comedy is subjective but when i feel its there just because the writer that it was clever funny joke it loses many readers.
Okay, this made me have a thought
I think you can kinda split this into Langauge and Story?
Langauge has the rules, you don't question them. Grammar dictates this word comes after this word, and that periods end a sentence. Things like spelling are absolute. These are things you can kinda play around with, but barely, since it has strict rules.
Story has more of guidelines. I think it's major rule is just "make it interesting." Yes, you probably shouldn't put in a scene of your character eating breakfast. Most of the time, it's far too boring and mundane, but if you have a way to make it *interesting*, go for it. Feel adjectives or adverbs really spice up the sentence and it feels bland without them? Keep em in. Nothing is off the table, as long as it's interesting.
I guess another Story rule is like... it needs to have a beginning, middle, and end. But novels are full of them! A sentence has these three phases. You can take that as big or as small as you like.
Also, stories aren't just told with words. Stories can be told with pictures, hand motions, dance, and so on. They're very fluid with how they can be told and what they can be told with, which kinda makes it easier to bend these "rules" you hear.
....I have no clue if I made any sense, my thought process was clearer in my head pfft
Idk if you've talked about it in other videos, but could you talk about magic systems and how you develop them or keep track of them?!
Since I’m not a fantasy writer and don’t have much experience developing magic systems, sadly I don’t think this is a video I’d be qualified to make.
It's funny how people say "there are no rules" to writing and yet there are so many articles and videos out there that controdict that statement.
This is very helpful, thank you very much xx
Thanks again for another interesting and insightful vlog.
And just wondering, have you ever done a vlog about the different between passive voice and other things?
Only asking because it is a nagging headache that sometimes I can't write because when I do write a good scene but then that negative thinking starts with their questions.
I am not that young and my brain keeps in a simple version of writing process. Just the basic, not the passive voice and other things bla bla bla.
And also, there might be a few videos about passive voice, but it would be interesting from your point of view.
I don't really consider myself a grammar expert, so I typically avoid making videos about grammatical topics, but I did do a video on passive voice on the Reedsy channel! If you search 'reedsy passive voice' you'll find it.
Ok cool. Thanks, will check them out.
Love this
That's why I don't care about rules. All I care is telling a story in the most effective way.
Thinking about rules stress me. It limits my creativity.
Because craft = magick.
Rules vs Formula vs Art
#LFLR
"VBW"
Such an important video
YOu guys should do a video about annotating or using tabs while reading. Unless you don't do that.
Tbh I don't really do that while reading, but I admire people who do!
Like Architecture.👍
I would say this applies across the board in all aspects of life :)
Hey Hi! I have no experience in writing. To be frank, I don’t have any relation with creative stuff in my day to day life. I do mergers and acquisitions for a living. However, I had this urge to write for quite sometime. When I started my own little research 10 days back, all I am doing is watching yours and Brandon Sanderson’s videos (Out of all the stuff out here) .. anyway, I would like to make a weird request. If by any chance it’s possible for you to review just 2 pages of my writing and suggest if it’s worth even trying. I would be grateful .. it might help me understand this is not my cup of tea 😝Thanks!
I'm always struggling with "rules". I started writing without knowing them and I think I can develop as a writer without them.
I don’t think that’s what she’s trying to say. The rules are necessary for beginners because they start to create a shape and basic understanding of the skill you are learning. I wouldn’t recommend you write without the basic education but I’m a no one from no where simply making an observation based on my perspective and interpretation of what this video was saying.
"Rules Don't Matter" Do not matter* :)
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There’s a lot of value here, but it’s advice that’s also fraught with danger for amateur writers. “Following the rules” is in my view a long, difficult learning process. One has to *earn* the right to break those rules. This takes time, and usually involves concrete, measurable success and achievement. Picasso broke the rules, yes, but go back and look at his early, representational work. He earned the right to break those rules. And one should always (humbly) ask: Am I really Tolkien, or Austen, or Stephen King? Just my two cents, of course.
this title gonna get so many clicks lol