Great video! What gets me is when adults say that they're "saving money" by "living at home." Of course it's easy to "save money" when somebody else is paying your bills. 🙄🙄🙄
what do you call it when parents do just about anything to prevent their kid from leaving. I got those kind of parents. Spent my 20s trying to leave. I'm 35 now and I'm pathetically stuck. No money, job, car, place to escape to. Nothing. I wish I could back in time to when I was 18 fresh out of high school and left to the Army as I had planned. Unfortunately I was taught to listen to my elders and my family and relatives convinced me not to go. Does the Army recruit middle aged men? lol
Parental ambivalence about their offsprings' independence is quite common, but varies in its intensity. In some cases it becomes active undermining or sabotaging, and is often codependent in nature (so long as my kid needs me, I don't have to deal with my own life). When adults in this situation finally take charge of their own lives and give up waiting for parents' permission to live their own lives it often seems overwhelming. But progress tends to be faster than it would have been at 20. You might like Robert Bly's 1990 book Iron John, which presents the dilemma in the form of myth (or children's story). At its core is the idea that a young person who awaits parents permission to become adult and independent will remain imprisoned forever; the key to the outside world will never be granted and must instead be taken.
@@RandyPaterson Wow! I didn't think there was an actual name for this. Active undermining describes exactly what my pops does when I talk about my issues, dreams, and desires to leave. There's always a tone he has of negativity that I won't make it on my own. Only on rare occasions has he sabotaged me like selling my vehicle cause it was taking up too much space in his drive way. HOA doesn't like cars to sit in one spot for too long. I'm still salty about that which was years ago. Haven't had a vehicle since lol. I'm gonna buy that book. I'm really interested in perusing a different avenue to find my way out. I love my folks but I need to get out. Thank you so much 🙏
You're welcome. Look for the playlist Hikikomori/FailureToLaunch on this channel for more. As well, I have a course for parents in this situation at psychologysalon.teachable.com, and am providing a live interactive session on the topic September 6 - info at randypaterson.com.
Thank you for saying so. It is no substitute for personalized assistance from a qualified mental health professional, and it is not, in itself, therapy. But my goal is to provide useful ideas that parents can try out in their own families. Kind of like a talking self-help book.
Hi. I believe I am a poster child for failure to launch. But my situation is a little unique, and because of it my parents are easily able to keep me in that stuckness even though I want out. I ask them for guidance, but I get none. The schedule is always executed in a way that is easiest and quickest. I need help. I feel like I'm drowning.
I have a course for parents in this situation called The Parent Trap at psychologysalon.teachable.com. Although it is addressed mainly to parents, some young adults who realize they may need to push their own independence a bit more might find it helpful. My book "How to be Miserable in Your 20s" may also help, and I think many libraries may have it for loan at (obviously) no charge. I can also recommend Meg Joy's book The Defining Decade. In addition, if resources are available, a therapist with expertise in the transition to independence (so-called "failure to launch") may be very helpful.
This is the biggest problem I’m facing right now as a young adult living with my parents. They want to help me but I’m embarrassed by it and I really don’t want the help to be stuck with them forever. I pay for my own phone, and pay rent however I want more autonomy. They do everything they can to make things easier for me, but in the process I end up feeling more useless and unmotivated. How can I fix this so I can be empowered enough to finally leave? I don’t want to be stuck like this forever.
I have a course for parents at psychologysalon.teachable.com called The Parent Trap, which emphasizes the idea of shifting support away from dependence (making up for your perception of your young adult's deficits) to independence (helping them become more capable without the nagging and without simply cutting off support). This may be useful. Mark McConville's book Failure to Launch is also an excellent resource, addressed mostly to parents. From a personal perspective it can be good to ask "What would I be doing if I was as independent as I'd like to be? What would be different?" And then break that down into individual bits and take them on, or address the issue with parents. "I appreciate your meals, Mom, but I have to learn to cook for myself. How about we start with me handling my own meals two nights a week - or cooking for the family on Tuesdays?" Ultimately if parents won't take the training wheels off your bicycle, you may need to get out the toolkit and remove them yourself.
What if you're failure to launch but you help with house chores and buy stuff for the house whenever you can? I'm really only struggling financially :(
There are many young adults who live at home and do very little to contribute - not even their own laundry or tidying their own room. Much of the work of therapy is to shift the relationship from parent-and-perceived-infant to adult-and-adult, where everyone in the home takes on responsibilities as they can. When this happens, there may not be a failure to launch situation. We often talk about "leaving the nest," but failure to launch doesn't mean that we pathologize living in multigenerational households. People have done this throughout history. It's more of a problem when young adults in the house are asking for or requiring care beyond what their ability level would demand.
Hi, so I'm a hikiomori/NEET for different reasons. I've made some conclusions about the world and existence that make it difficult to desire to live normally. Like, I get brought into this psychopathic hellscape of an existence driven by natural selection so that, yes, gradations of psychopathy are the norm, and I have to take care of myself when really, there's nothing here for me. It's very unsettling that part of adulthood entails finding work in order to survive, when there doesn't appear to be any better options than what I already have, which is to continue living this way. Why should I have to suffer more, to get nothing? Emotionally, I'm afraid that if I live the way I'm 'supposed' to, I'll be broken, my dreams will be shattered, and I'll end up worse off. This life is barren, and every day I wake up to the same emptiness. But it could be worse; I could be a wage slave or a slave to someone else in a relationship. I mean, is there anything actually worth pursuing that isn't just a disappointment or a scam? If I want to forever be NEET, or at least until my parents die, I think it's okay. My parents ought to pay for my entire life anyway, since they ripped me from my peaceful nothingness in cold blood. They're useless at best and probably worth some contempt, but they just followed their genetic instincts, and no one is ultimately responsible for what they do given a deterministic look at the "free will" meme. Everyone is in a mutual delusion. All relationships are really just trauma bonds that turn into some form of abusive/co-dependent dynamic. Everything is a zero sum game. Darwinian neurology sucks. I think sometimes that to smile while dancing in the fires of hell requires a very perverse individual, one whose morality operates backwards. What if what I'm doing and how I feel is an authentic way to relate to the world, and anyone who knew the same would act the same? Is there really something wrong with me? Doesn't it bother anyone else that: the cruelty of life is that you've been given this mission to do something that will be destroyed, but you have to want it so badly that you won't give up? Ahh, it's all just tragic, pitiful, unfair, and evil.
The "I didn't ask to be born so it's up to others to fund me for as long as they live" perspective is not uncommon among NEETs, and the first part of it is undeniably true: No human being on Earth, as far as we can tell, ever asked to be born. Not you, not me, not your parents, no one. No one ever signed a contract for this, just as no parent ever signed a contract requiring them to fund a non-disabled adult for a lifetime. Beyond the age of majority, it's entirely at a parent's discretion whether they support their adult offspring. The problem for the young person in this situation is that at some level they know this to be true. There's really nothing stopping the parent from reducing or eliminating the support. So there is always a feeling of precariousness about the NEET position. Another difficulty is that NEET individuals typically aren't all that happy, so it's not as though the parents' efforts are bringing about a state of bliss. In fact, NEETs are typically much less happy and more anxious than non-NEETs, and those who leave the NEET life typically find that their state of mind and life satisfaction improves. In a sense, parents are often funding and creating a dependent life for their young adult that provides more harm than benefit, much like a codependent spouse who buys alcohol for their alcohol-dependent partner. By continuing to provide support that the young adult does not actually need, they may be perpetuating or magnifying the problem. They may also feel that their funding at minimum purchases the affection of their offspring, but they may actually only be buying their contempt. Therapy can help whichever party comes for therapy. If the parent, the mission is to help them reduce their dependence-perpetuating behaviour. If the young adult, the mission is to help them find what they might like beyond the dependence of adolescence, and take initial steps to get there, relinquishing a childhood that is well past its best-before date. In some cases, the dreams of the young adult, untempered by experience in the outside world, are genuinely unattainable or remote (single-handedly save the world, out-earn Elon Musk, etc). But what they tend to discover is that the potency of actual achievement is much greater than that of unpursued dreams, so the attainable often does prove satisfying - certainly more so than isolation in a parent's home. Some feel that taking genuine steps in life is a matter of giving up on their aspirations. What they miss is that staying at home is a more complete abandonment of those same aspirations. They imagine they are hanging onto their dreams, when in reality they are burning them. Hope that helps.
@@jatasgo1351 For practical matters of being an adult, I like Adulting by Kelly Williams Brown. For broader issues I like Meg Jay's The Defining Decade. For parents of stuck young people I like Mark McConville's Failure to Launch. My own book How to be Miserable in Your Twenties covers some of the issues, including the "I didn't ask to be born" idea.
Well the difficulty is that there is no absolute end to adult dependence. Parents are often waiting for the young adult to find their passion and drive, but the longer they remove the necessity of adult functioning the harder it is for the young adult to develop these. Sometimes the dependence increases over time; sometimes it stays exactly the same. But in the clinic we often say "If it's not changing at all, it's getting worse." Because even if the situation remains static, it is becoming more ingrained with every day that passes.
I need a one on one with you ! And maybe a family meeting ? Via zoom ? My daughter is 19 still in Highschool. She has plenty of friends but she’s lazy.
Psychologists are restricted to practice in the jurisdictions in which they are registered, sand are not able to offer specific one on one advice outside an established therapy setting. We can and do engage in public fora like TH-cam and online seminars and courses, but avoid speaking directly about specific cases. You may like Mark McConville’s book Failure to Launch.
For more on this subject, consider my online course for parents, available with a preview video here: psychologysalon.teachable.com/p/parent-trap
Great video! What gets me is when adults say that they're "saving money" by "living at home."
Of course it's easy to "save money" when somebody else is paying your bills.
🙄🙄🙄
what do you call it when parents do just about anything to prevent their kid from leaving.
I got those kind of parents. Spent my 20s trying to leave. I'm 35 now and I'm pathetically stuck. No money, job, car, place to escape to. Nothing.
I wish I could back in time to when I was 18 fresh out of high school and left to the Army as I had planned. Unfortunately I was taught to listen to my elders and my family and relatives convinced me not to go. Does the Army recruit middle aged men? lol
Parental ambivalence about their offsprings' independence is quite common, but varies in its intensity. In some cases it becomes active undermining or sabotaging, and is often codependent in nature (so long as my kid needs me, I don't have to deal with my own life).
When adults in this situation finally take charge of their own lives and give up waiting for parents' permission to live their own lives it often seems overwhelming. But progress tends to be faster than it would have been at 20.
You might like Robert Bly's 1990 book Iron John, which presents the dilemma in the form of myth (or children's story). At its core is the idea that a young person who awaits parents permission to become adult and independent will remain imprisoned forever; the key to the outside world will never be granted and must instead be taken.
@@RandyPaterson Wow!
I didn't think there was an actual name for this. Active undermining describes exactly what my pops does when I talk about my issues, dreams, and desires to leave. There's always a tone he has of negativity that I won't make it on my own. Only on rare occasions has he sabotaged me like selling my vehicle cause it was taking up too much space in his drive way. HOA doesn't like cars to sit in one spot for too long. I'm still salty about that which was years ago. Haven't had a vehicle since lol.
I'm gonna buy that book. I'm really interested in perusing a different avenue to find my way out. I love my folks but I need to get out. Thank you so much 🙏
Wow. Currently dealing with a 30 year old, who lives upstairs. Thank you for this.
You're welcome. Look for the playlist Hikikomori/FailureToLaunch on this channel for more. As well, I have a course for parents in this situation at psychologysalon.teachable.com, and am providing a live interactive session on the topic September 6 - info at randypaterson.com.
I subscribed to the Parent Trap course. I think it is excellent and provides very balanced and practical advice
Thank you for saying so. It is no substitute for personalized assistance from a qualified mental health professional, and it is not, in itself, therapy. But my goal is to provide useful ideas that parents can try out in their own families. Kind of like a talking self-help book.
This video was amazing, 1000 on point, and enjoyed the sense of humor.
Hi. I believe I am a poster child for failure to launch. But my situation is a little unique, and because of it my parents are easily able to keep me in that stuckness even though I want out. I ask them for guidance, but I get none. The schedule is always executed in a way that is easiest and quickest.
I need help. I feel like I'm drowning.
I have a course for parents in this situation called The Parent Trap at psychologysalon.teachable.com. Although it is addressed mainly to parents, some young adults who realize they may need to push their own independence a bit more might find it helpful. My book "How to be Miserable in Your 20s" may also help, and I think many libraries may have it for loan at (obviously) no charge. I can also recommend Meg Joy's book The Defining Decade. In addition, if resources are available, a therapist with expertise in the transition to independence (so-called "failure to launch") may be very helpful.
Yup, YOUR situation is "unique", just like everyone else's.
I'm crying right now. Validation.
Lol same let’s be bffs
This is the biggest problem I’m facing right now as a young adult living with my parents. They want to help me but I’m embarrassed by it and I really don’t want the help to be stuck with them forever. I pay for my own phone, and pay rent however I want more autonomy. They do everything they can to make things easier for me, but in the process I end up feeling more useless and unmotivated. How can I fix this so I can be empowered enough to finally leave? I don’t want to be stuck like this forever.
I have a course for parents at psychologysalon.teachable.com called The Parent Trap, which emphasizes the idea of shifting support away from dependence (making up for your perception of your young adult's deficits) to independence (helping them become more capable without the nagging and without simply cutting off support). This may be useful. Mark McConville's book Failure to Launch is also an excellent resource, addressed mostly to parents.
From a personal perspective it can be good to ask "What would I be doing if I was as independent as I'd like to be? What would be different?" And then break that down into individual bits and take them on, or address the issue with parents. "I appreciate your meals, Mom, but I have to learn to cook for myself. How about we start with me handling my own meals two nights a week - or cooking for the family on Tuesdays?" Ultimately if parents won't take the training wheels off your bicycle, you may need to get out the toolkit and remove them yourself.
Excellent suggestions and insight.
What if you're failure to launch but you help with house chores and buy stuff for the house whenever you can? I'm really only struggling financially :(
There are many young adults who live at home and do very little to contribute - not even their own laundry or tidying their own room. Much of the work of therapy is to shift the relationship from parent-and-perceived-infant to adult-and-adult, where everyone in the home takes on responsibilities as they can. When this happens, there may not be a failure to launch situation. We often talk about "leaving the nest," but failure to launch doesn't mean that we pathologize living in multigenerational households. People have done this throughout history. It's more of a problem when young adults in the house are asking for or requiring care beyond what their ability level would demand.
Then, you are NOT a failure to launch.
I love your videos, they are very helpful
Hi, so I'm a hikiomori/NEET for different reasons. I've made some conclusions about the world and existence that make it difficult to desire to live normally. Like, I get brought into this psychopathic hellscape of an existence driven by natural selection so that, yes, gradations of psychopathy are the norm, and I have to take care of myself when really, there's nothing here for me. It's very unsettling that part of adulthood entails finding work in order to survive, when there doesn't appear to be any better options than what I already have, which is to continue living this way. Why should I have to suffer more, to get nothing?
Emotionally, I'm afraid that if I live the way I'm 'supposed' to, I'll be broken, my dreams will be shattered, and I'll end up worse off.
This life is barren, and every day I wake up to the same emptiness. But it could be worse; I could be a wage slave or a slave to someone else in a relationship. I mean, is there anything actually worth pursuing that isn't just a disappointment or a scam? If I want to forever be NEET, or at least until my parents die, I think it's okay. My parents ought to pay for my entire life anyway, since they ripped me from my peaceful nothingness in cold blood. They're useless at best and probably worth some contempt, but they just followed their genetic instincts, and no one is ultimately responsible for what they do given a deterministic look at the "free will" meme. Everyone is in a mutual delusion. All relationships are really just trauma bonds that turn into some form of abusive/co-dependent dynamic. Everything is a zero sum game. Darwinian neurology sucks.
I think sometimes that to smile while dancing in the fires of hell requires a very perverse individual, one whose morality operates backwards. What if what I'm doing and how I feel is an authentic way to relate to the world, and anyone who knew the same would act the same? Is there really something wrong with me? Doesn't it bother anyone else that: the cruelty of life is that you've been given this mission to do something that will be destroyed, but you have to want it so badly that you won't give up?
Ahh, it's all just tragic, pitiful, unfair, and evil.
The "I didn't ask to be born so it's up to others to fund me for as long as they live" perspective is not uncommon among NEETs, and the first part of it is undeniably true: No human being on Earth, as far as we can tell, ever asked to be born. Not you, not me, not your parents, no one. No one ever signed a contract for this, just as no parent ever signed a contract requiring them to fund a non-disabled adult for a lifetime. Beyond the age of majority, it's entirely at a parent's discretion whether they support their adult offspring.
The problem for the young person in this situation is that at some level they know this to be true. There's really nothing stopping the parent from reducing or eliminating the support. So there is always a feeling of precariousness about the NEET position.
Another difficulty is that NEET individuals typically aren't all that happy, so it's not as though the parents' efforts are bringing about a state of bliss. In fact, NEETs are typically much less happy and more anxious than non-NEETs, and those who leave the NEET life typically find that their state of mind and life satisfaction improves.
In a sense, parents are often funding and creating a dependent life for their young adult that provides more harm than benefit, much like a codependent spouse who buys alcohol for their alcohol-dependent partner. By continuing to provide support that the young adult does not actually need, they may be perpetuating or magnifying the problem. They may also feel that their funding at minimum purchases the affection of their offspring, but they may actually only be buying their contempt.
Therapy can help whichever party comes for therapy. If the parent, the mission is to help them reduce their dependence-perpetuating behaviour. If the young adult, the mission is to help them find what they might like beyond the dependence of adolescence, and take initial steps to get there, relinquishing a childhood that is well past its best-before date.
In some cases, the dreams of the young adult, untempered by experience in the outside world, are genuinely unattainable or remote (single-handedly save the world, out-earn Elon Musk, etc). But what they tend to discover is that the potency of actual achievement is much greater than that of unpursued dreams, so the attainable often does prove satisfying - certainly more so than isolation in a parent's home.
Some feel that taking genuine steps in life is a matter of giving up on their aspirations. What they miss is that staying at home is a more complete abandonment of those same aspirations. They imagine they are hanging onto their dreams, when in reality they are burning them.
Hope that helps.
@@RandyPaterson Thanks for the reply. Do you have any video recommendations/book recommendations/strategies for finding direction and decision making?
@@jatasgo1351 For practical matters of being an adult, I like Adulting by Kelly Williams Brown. For broader issues I like Meg Jay's The Defining Decade. For parents of stuck young people I like Mark McConville's Failure to Launch. My own book How to be Miserable in Your Twenties covers some of the issues, including the "I didn't ask to be born" idea.
What's it called when they're 40?
Well the difficulty is that there is no absolute end to adult dependence. Parents are often waiting for the young adult to find their passion and drive, but the longer they remove the necessity of adult functioning the harder it is for the young adult to develop these. Sometimes the dependence increases over time; sometimes it stays exactly the same. But in the clinic we often say "If it's not changing at all, it's getting worse." Because even if the situation remains static, it is becoming more ingrained with every day that passes.
I need a one on one with you ! And maybe a family meeting ? Via zoom ? My daughter is 19 still in Highschool. She has plenty of friends but she’s lazy.
Psychologists are restricted to practice in the jurisdictions in which they are registered, sand are not able to offer specific one on one advice outside an established therapy setting. We can and do engage in public fora like TH-cam and online seminars and courses, but avoid speaking directly about specific cases. You may like Mark McConville’s book Failure to Launch.
@penderyn8794 funny you say that now 22 still lazy it starts early my dude