sE8 - Still don't need no Neumann... or do I? Best Cheap Mic in the World.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ต.ค. 2021
- The sE8 is an SDC microphone with filters, pads, interchangeable capsules and specs to frighten some of the best known names in the world of professional microphones. And all at a price that won't break the bank. And thanks to Ken at apogeeav.co.uk and the kind loan of the sE8 we can put it up against the biggest name of all in the world of microphones. Famous for classics like the U87 and the KM84. The sE8 goes head to head with the Neumann KM184.
01:05 sE8 and KM184 side by side
02:10 sE8 solo
04:20 KM184
04:35 KM84 musings
05:57 KM184 Off axis 90 degrees
06:53 sE8 Off axis 90 degrees
07:35 Wrap and Line Audio CM4
Always overlooked these mics. Thanks for the review man!
Thanks Johnsy - you are right sE probably don't get the love they deserve - fashion is a fickle thing and in audio like everything else fashion plays a huge part. I am hoping never to appear in one of your 'Considerate Motorist' videos. Stay safe on that bike! Ta like, ppm6.
I have a pair of 184s and a pair of sE8s. And when it comes down to it, unless something is soloed, I can't hear much of difference that matters in a full mix. Great affordable mic from sE!
Thanks MM, that comment is worth its weight in gold. Real world experience from ownership of both mics. Thanks for that. Just checking what mic preamps/interface are you using? Ta like, ppm6.
All I needed to hear. Thank you.
This comment just sold a pair of these mics to me!
@@VRcation tell sE I sent ya @clubsoundmachine
Nice channel. I stumbled upon this channel finding some info of F6. This comparasion was really interesting. sE is really nice brand. I've had their 414 clones for a decade. Amazing ones as well for the price.
Hi Janne - good to hear from a satisfied long term customer. I tried the sE4400 (414 clone) back in the day, but we already had buckets of 414s so we didn't buy any. It's a mic I'd like to revisit now that Austrian Audio are doing interesting things in that segment. The sE8 is a such a bargain, I think they deserve a bit more coverage than they get, especially here in the UK. They don't have a big marketing profile here is my observation. Ta like, ppm6.
Fantastic video. I'm just getting into sE mics, I picked up the sE7 and 2200 for a good test of their small and large diaphragm condensers. Awesome mics with useful features. I really appreciate the low cut that will really help for harsher vocal styles and things with perhaps a boomy low end like a guitar cab etc.
Cheers
Hi Glad to get some feedback on the sE7 which is much overlooked when the fuss is all about the sE8, glad you're enjoying it and thanks for dropping in. Ta like, ppm6.
I really like your channel. A lot of great content :) Two days ago I got an sE8 stereo set and so far I really like them. But one of the first things that I've discovered that the mics are prone to rf-interferences. Holding a smartphone close to the mics I'm able to induce some interferences. That's something that won't happen with my more expensive mics, like the Sennheiser MHK8060, or my Gefells M310. In situations with a lot of radios arround (film sets, concerts, ect) maybe not the best choice. Also the equivalent noise level seems a bit higher to me than stated in the specs. But other than that a really nice mic. Greetings
Guido thanks for that info. I haven't had any RF problems but I am not in a noisy RF environment. Your other mics are in a different class of course but it is still good to know. When I get a moment I'll try all the cheap mics with a phone next to them. My old SoundDevices 744 blasted out so much RF I couldn't use my radio timecode system, reduced the range to about 1m! Ta like, ppm6
I'm looking for a new mic for my documentary filmmaking and more than anything, thank you for all of the experience that you offer. Hearing the history of the KM84 was pretty cool, I appreciate all the wisdom you share. I'm going to do more research on the SE8!
Thanks for your kind words Jorge. I love the 184 but you seldom see them in location kits I think because of their mechanical sensitivity. At the more affordable end the sE8 would be a good choice, also check out the Line Audio CM4 which is very small and very light, both plusses on location. But unlike the sE8 the CM4 has no pad or filter, you might also consider the Lewitt LCT140 which ticks both those boxes. I have videos of the CM4 and the Lewitt on my channel. Happy mic hunting. Good work on the iPhone shot ad btw. Ta like, ppm6.
@@ppmtv-qh9qk you are so welcome! And I’ll definitely check those mics out. I think I’m going to scratch the pencil microphones off my list since I need a mic that’s good indoors and outdoors as well. The Rode NTG sounded good but I’ve heard that Deity and others are probably better choices. Do you have any recommendations, I would appreciate your insight if it’s not too much of your time🙏🏽
Hi Jorge, Rode have a good reputation and I have reviewed their NTG5. The NTG3 is a copy of the Sennheiser 416. The 416 is not cheap but it is where I would start if my budget was below a thousand dollars. I didn't want to spend that much money so I waited patiently for a good second hand one, about three or four hundred dollars. You are now in the world of gun mics and some people warn against using gun mics indoors as you can have problems but check out these videos.
th-cam.com/video/HV6aaBt-Rok/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/_IFaMGy7v5Y/w-d-xo.html
My line is mostly you'll get away with it and a good short gun mic is the best place to start. The compromise is a hypercardioid - I would have a look at the Sanken CSM1 - I've got a video on that somewhere. How do you plan to record your audio, do you have a separate audio recorder? Ta like, ppm6.
re: mics growing on you over time - I’ve started using the CM4 side by side with the (6 x pricier) MKH8050 for voiceovers and interviews. As long as there’s not too much ambience, I’m choosing the CM4 recording because I think it’s very good at accurately capturing the talent’s actual sound? Also, re: dropping mics (eek - butterfingers here - the reason I was never selected for the school cricket team) The CM4 is so light that when you drop it doesn’t build up enough inertia by the time it hits the deck to damage itself. It’s a thing I think.
Doug - first of all I feel envy for your 8050! I'm guessing the 8050 is audibly tighter? And with less noise - but with a good preamp the difference in noise is probably not a big deal. The things is you can't beat real world feedback and this is a real case in point. Props to the CM4.
Were you looking for an MKH406P - some guy in Austria posted a comment on here somewhere - he got 8 in almost as new condition from a local concert hall! I couldn't believe it.
I totally agree about the mass/momentum/impact thing. Your potential energy is m x v and if the mass m is low then you don't get so much damage causing energy when your drop your CM4. As a matter of interest have you tried yours outside - I was asked about outside use and I wasn't sure what windshield to recommend - a Rycote Softie? Ta like, ppm6.
Very good video about those two microphones
Thanks for dropping by and leaving a comment Gabriel. Glad you enjoyed the video. Ta like, ppm6.
Hello dear! Nice video! I want to buy an SCD for violin recording.I need a mic with smooth high frequency because as you know this makes violin sound harsh! I want to choose between SE8 , Aston starlight , rode nt5. May I know your idea?
Hi Houman - the Line Audio CM4 has a ruler flat frequency response, all the others have some form of high frequency boost. The CM4 is also the cheapest!
lineaudio.se/CM4.html
I have plenty of videos on the channel featuring the CM4, try this...
th-cam.com/video/s_QbUfFFoB8/w-d-xo.html
Ta like, ppm6.
Nice test. Excellent comparison. Thank You
Thanks for dropping by Richard - did you have a preference? Ta like, ppm6.
@@ppmtv-qh9qk Sontronics with the Hyper capsule. To replace my Audix SCX-1 HC. Thanks 😊
Hi Richard, that is a very interesting choice. I haven't managed to get an SCX-HC but I've heard good things about them. I'm still looking for one - have you been disappointed with yours? Ta like, ppm6.
@@ppmtv-qh9qk yeah i liked the audix. May get another. I sold it and a bunch of other gear due to my ass being broke!
Sorry to hear of financial pressure, it's tough when you have to sell the gear. Hope you are on the buying track soon. Ta like, ppm6.
Thanks for the review! I’m a long time FANATIC of KM 184s. When the RODE NT5 came out it became a good sounding, cheap alternative to The KM184. last year I needed a pair if something and at the strong recommendation of my Sweetwater engineer to go with sE8 over the NT5i took a gamble. Not only does it completely outperform the NT5 in terms of self noise, signal output and off axis response accuracy, But as you indicated, the benefits pile up when you see that it also has pads and filters and replaceable capsule. I just purchased the Omni capsules this past week.
Still a huge fan of the KM184 because that’s what I started my career with more than 25 years ago, But at this point it’s more of nostalgia like being a fan of classic cars. After hearing and using the sE8’s, I see no need this point to ever purchase the KM184s unless I just want to spend a bunch of money for sentimental reasons.
Also, it has been cool to see quite a number of very well-known artists including Hans Zimmer world tour and Billie Eilish tour Talk about how they use as electronics product as a matter of sound preference over other brands trying to get their business. I could be wrong, but I believe sE will many years from now be revered as a very quality company and product similar to Neumann. They also have a nice little claim to fame of being the only company Rupert Neve ever collaborated with in building microphones. I also on two of their VR2 active ribbon microphones that have full 20 Hz-18 kHz response but still maintain the beauty of smooth top end that a ribbon inherently possesses. sE electronics is the only company with ribbon microphones that have full frequency response. Rupert was responsible for that development with his RNR1 Collaboration using his custom transformer to achieve that response. Then, the CEO of sE electronics developed a way to achieve basically identical results using a mechanical grill on the VR ribbons that accommodate the upper frequencies without need of Rupert’s transformer. But the VR ribbon mics are based on Rupert’s design otherwise. Anyway, huge fan of that company and their product.
Hi Alexander nice to see a good Welsh name like Jenkins on here. A couple of things. First I have had nothing but positive interactions with sE, they are responsive, concerned about quality and in my experience open and honest. All in all a pleasure to deal with. I still love my 184s but worse things could happen to me than having to use sE8s instead. There's no doubt the sE8 is a bargain in simple audio performance terms.
There is a question about whether the mic delivers the spec in terms of self noise. My tests show that the 184 is quieter despite the two mics having similar figures. However I don't think self noise is the be all and end all of mic technology and people happily use mics with worse figures than the sE8 without batting an eyelid.
I did ask sE if they would make a hypercardioid capsule for the location guys but sadly this isn't in their plan. I will look out for some omni capsules to give them a go.
I haven't tried the sE ribbon mics but I am looking forward to trying other mics in their range. Thanks for taking the time to post your experiences, I haven't tried the NT5 either but it sounds like the sE is a better option and particularly because in the UK the sE is very affordable. Ta like, ppm6.
@@ppmtv-qh9qk Thanks for the response. Yep, definitely Welsh lineage. Yeah, the self noise would be really interesting to test. I'd love to try them both in ORTF above a conductor with an ensemble and see how they compare in self noise once they have some real-world gain. The Tone Meister for Hans Zimmer uses a lot of sE product he says for the sound quality and especially for the off axis fidelity. The sE8 capsule is a little larger than the DPA and Shoeps and he refers to it as a "larger" small diaphram. That could be partly responsible for the low self noise. Also they have a wonderfully strong sensitivity/output gain. That helps too. My hear rate still elevates when I think about the KM184's and one day I'll likely still get them "just because". 'Till then, it's nice to have something that sounds so similar I didn't realize in your tests (as I was initially not looking at the screen as was just listening) that you had been switching between them. Reviewing your side by side more critically a second time I could hear the difference but it is VERY close. The KM184's to my ear have always had a "sweet" sound. Not sure how to define that, but they definitely capture some great audio.
Hi Alexander, thanks for the reply. Have you got any other recommendations among sE mics? Ta like, ppm6.
I’m intrigued with that whole line up but the only ones I personally own/have experience with are the sE8 (cardioid and Omni capsules) and a pair of the VR2. I’ve never been one to commit my entire sound into one brand (including Neumann and DPA), so I’m hesitant to go too deep into their stuff but ultimately it’s about what gives me the sound I’m needing and if I happen to save money along the way as well that’s a huge plus.
Saying that though I am running a 7.1.4 Neumann based Atmos system. I guess in that instance I did have to make it all the same brand 😁
Thanks Alexander - I'll check out those those sE ribbons - thanks for the update. Ta like, ppm6.
Nice video, thanks! Purely soundwise here the Neumann KM184 seems the most detailed, smoothest, most natural. The LineAudio CM4 is still pleasant, slightly less detailed and I can hear more of the room (both the fans in the background and the room itself). sE8 has a slight sharpness to the highs instead of smoothness but is a fantastic value.
Dear Daniel, thank you for such thoughtful comments. First I think the CM4 is a wider cardioid and your observations fit that perfectly. Second the 184 has a 'detail' boost which the CM4 doesn't, being flatter. So another good spot. And the sE8 also has a presence boost which might account for a sharpness. The genius of the 184 is how it manages the presence boost so smoothly. btw loved the Bach on marimba - and your percussion duet is very, very nice!
Ta like, ppm6.
@@ppmtv-qh9qk Thank you for the reply, that's all good to know and interesting that it matches the experience. Thanks for your nice comments, I really like your entire channel as well!
Thanks Daniel - I sent your duet video to a friend who is a drum teacher. His reaction...
I won't lie that was awesome.
He's now scouring the internet to find those shakers you used in the video, not easy to get in the UK? Ta like, ppm6.
@@ppmtv-qh9qk Thanks for showing the video. Most of them I think should be easy. The piece calls for Meinl Spin Spark Shaker, Meinl Headed Spark Shaker a pair of any kind of Maracas and two types of Caxixi (4 flat bottom and 2 basket type), strings of little bells, a selection of high, medium, and low shakers which in our case included - if I remember correctly - a Meinl Live Shaker Black, a large LP Brass shaker, an empty plastic bottle with some dry beans inside, and an LP Cyclone shaker (the orange ball at the end of the first section) which I think is discontinued but should pop up once in a while on e.g. eBay.
Daniel thanks for such a comprehensive list. Really helpful, I’ll share it with my pal Ben. Thanks for taking the time ppm6.tv
RODE NT-55 has interchangeable capsules. I own the sE8 matched pair and a pair of KM184. My mic locker is modest, but the few mics I have fulfill all use cases I have.
Thanks I haven't had a go on the NT-55. Is it odd that sE, Rode and Sontronics to name but 3 all have cardioid and omni capsules but no figure of 8 or hypercardioids? I did ask Roger at Line Audio to make a hyper, but he says he is too busy. Any way you are dead right, don't need a million mics, just the right ones in the right place. Good steer. Ta like, ppm6.
Thanks for this. I immediately ran out and bought a sE8 on eBay. It was listed as Open Box for $210, but when it arrived it was in new condition (still in its wrapping). I know you're trying to avoid this, but I'd love it if you added some of your opinions/thoughts on the sound. Even with quality headphones, it can be difficult to hear the mics properly on TH-cam. Having your opinion would nicely validate (or challenge) my poor ears.
Hi HI, I apologise in advance for a longish answer! First can I draw your attention to two really helpful comments on the viideo.
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I have a pair of 184s and a pair of sE8s. And when it comes down to it, unless something is soloed, I can't hear much of difference that matters in a full mix. Great affordable mic from sE!
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Two days ago I got an sE8 stereo set and so far I really like them. But one of the first things that I've discovered that the mics are prone to rf-interferences. Holding a smartphone close to the mics I'm able to induce some interferences. That's something that won't happen with my more expensive mics, like the Sennheiser MHK8060, or my Gefells M310. In situations with a lot of radios arround (film sets, concerts, ect) maybe not the best choice. Also the equivalent noise level seems a bit higher to me than stated in the specs. But other than that a really nice mic.
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Note the mics that the sE8s are being compared to are much more expensive, between three and six times the price! As you rightly observe I try not to press my opinion for a whole variety of reasons...
First the compressed audio quality of TH-cam videos.
And second -
You might want to record bird song in a Florida swamp.
Or NASCAR
Or opera
Or a guitar cab
Or a finger picked guitar
Or a screaming vocal
The list goes on and what you use it for is vital. The SM58 is a great mic but I don't want to put one on a pole on location.
Looking across lots of reviews and in my experience the sound quality of the sE8 has seen almost nothing but high praise. What is much harder to judge is value and that because global pricing is a mystery. Here in the UK the sE8 is £130 (which is what I paid for mine) while the Lewitt LCT140 is on sale at £110.
www.andertons.co.uk/
In the States the sE8 seems to be at least twice the price of the Lewitt. I can't work it out. If you listen to the sE8 v LCT 140 I would be interested to get your response?
th-cam.com/video/ySKS63WyUTg/w-d-xo.html
My last point and it is covered a bit in the video above. Noise - the achilles heel of the sE8 is that the noise performance doesn't seem to match the spec. There are loads of comments about this across the net and in the comments on these videos. A small number of people are very aggrieved, some people don't notice, some people don't care. Now it may well be batch or sample variation - I'm in discussion with sE about it and there will be a video on the subject eventually.
The main thing is that you enjoy your sE8, it sounds like you 'scored a snip' if we combine US and UK English. Do let us know your experience and have a lot of fun. Ta like, ppm6.
@@ppmtv-qh9qk Thanks for the thorough response! It’s true that how “good” a mic is depends on what you’re using it for. One of my reasons for wanting your opinion is that I’ve personally used so very few mics-- my ears aren’t as well tuned as I’d like. And, of course, what you’re listening with colors the tone as well, making judgments more difficult.
With Sony 7506 headphones, both the sE8 and the LCT 140 sound very good in your review. The LCT is a tiny bit “boxy” in the upper mids, similar to when I over-compress a frequency; but I only notice it right after you switch mics. The sE8 sounds slightly warmer and fuller in the lower registers of your voice. But it maintains its clarity and never sounds muffled. My copy only arrived last night, but I’ve spend that last week listening and comparing my meager selection of mics, so I threw it into the mix. I got a similar warmth in person, with a very smooth (you’d probably describe it as flat) tonal range that is consistent between 9 and 18 inches (the filmmaker’s distance). At 3 inches it doesn’t have much of a proximity effect, but sounds pretty muffled. The sE8’s warmth is very “organic” for lack of a better term; like the difference between wood and metal. My comparisons are the DPA 6008 omni, which sounds brighter in the uppers and flatter in the lowers, not as smooth or as warm; and a Oktava MK012 with Michael Joly modification, which has a similar smoothness, but less warmth in the lower range than the sE. The sE has relatively little rejection until 135 degrees. My office environment is full of hums, so a noise-floor test is out of the question, but that’s true of most of my shoot locations, too….
But enough of the frivolity and on to the serious stuff: I was an English major with a love of British slang, and I have never in my life heard the phrase, “scored a snip”…. :) It doesn’t even appear in a Google search. I’m assuming it means, got a good deal.
Hi HI - I pretty much agree with your analysis of the LCT v sE8 - there is something seductively darker about the sE that is very attractive. I don't know the 6008 but obviously DPA are top mic makers. I have to apologise and even apologize for 'scored a snip' - it's a UK/UK bastard term I just made up. We say 'it's a snip at £100..' and you, I think - 'I scored it for a $100' Which brings us neatly to pricing - I am mystified that the UK pricing is so much cheaper, especially as all my life I've been used to gazing enviously at the US price advantage for gear. Tell me what else do you take on location, recorder, mixer, camera? Ta like, ppm6.
Se8 is great, I had it for 2 weeks and loved it. It works so well, its pick up pattern is one of the best ever, unfortunately frequecy response for Se8 is too flat for human voice. So this is great instrument mic, I wish they make Se8 with boost in mid and high frequencies to suit voice better. So I returned Se8
Hi Andrey - very interesting comment. I love the sE8 and I'm going to buy one. But what I want to know is what did you get instead, or what have you heard that you prefer? Ta like, ppm6.
What's the purpose of EQ? I'd love to try recording with a flattish frequency mic and be responsible for whatever creative tweaks are needed, via the mixer.
Flat is better. Just EQ it yourself, the alternative is running into instances where the mic pronounces sibilance
great as always! Thanks for doing it. BTW is that Apogee preamp in a background? Ta
Tomasz - what a good spot - it is indeed an Apogee Mini-Me! Have to say I'm enjoying it. AES into the MOTU 112D. What do you recommend in the world of preamps?Ta like, ppm6.
apart from Mini-Me I can see myself with preamps like Lake People , the one which can be powered with USB the MPA RS 01 , and the DAV etc etc I am using now only RME and Sound Devices units as I am mostly doing field recording... There are many options though, which all depends what do we need in sound, colour or transparency?
Hi Tomasz - sounds like some good stuff. Do you use RME on location? Sounds interesting? Back in the olden days I had a SD 442 mixer and a 744T recorder - great stuff, never went wrong, still miss them today. Ta like, ppm6.
Hi, it depends really, but most of the times I have my RME Babyface Pro connected to Ipad, and recording general ambience, while I do have SD Mixpre 3 II as my main recorder. Hence my interest in portable preamps hahah. Big fan of CM4s though ! Some people are still swearing by older stuff from SD. If it works then it works right? :)
Tomasz - I love the RME stuff - top guys. One thing I would like to ask, do you have a recommendation for windshields for the CM4 outside. Someone wants to do external ambience recording and I don't know what to recommend in terms of windshields suitable for working outside? Ta like, ppm6.
great video:)
Hi Sharon - thanks for that. Have you got any sE kit? Ta like, ppm6.
I was really hyped about my pair, but when I compared it to the Beringer C2, T.bone SC140, Rode NT5 and Sennheiser ME64, I found my pair much too noisy for their spec - it was just behind the Behringer C2's with a very present high hissing sound, which none of the other mics had.
Hi Leonard, I am actively chasing sE about the noise performance. Where did you purchase them and what interface/mic amp are you using? Ta like, ppm6.
Yep, noisier than the Behringer.
I regret buying this microphone.
@@james-f1802 Thanks for the additional input. I find the microphone great for its sound, but I think it is not okay to call it "one of the quietes sdc's" when performing on the same level of a 40,-€ Behringer Set (which I finde extremely good for the money btw).
Especially when noise performance is important for you and it was a significant point when you decided to buy the mic (in my case i record quiet ambiences).
After I did my tests, I reached out to SE, just to get told my measurements could not be correct and so on.. Did not find the the response too professional.
Maybe ill find the recordings and upload it somewhere so anyone can make up his mind by himself.
@@leonardblaesing Can't reply, my comments vanishing immediately. 😆
@@james-f1802 oh, that sounds like you are really happy 😄
The KM184 has more distortion in the high end that could be falsely perceived as a bump in clarity. The Se8 sounds less “obvious” and that’s a positive to my ears.
Listened on:
DT 1990s
& iPhone speakers
I have a pair of 1990s which I much enjoy. The KM184s have a bump in the response -
recordinghacks.com/images/mic_extras/neumann/KM84-KM184-frequency.png
The sE8 also has a little bump...
seelectronics.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/sE8UserManualv1-9-2.pdf
ta like, ppm6
Please review the Sennheiser e914 which is a very nice SDC also and very reasonably priced.. 🙏
HI AA - good spot, I don't know the e914 but will try and get one for review. Do you have one or have you tried one? Ta like, ppm6.
Do you have any A/B tests with the Oktava MK-012, since it’s new stock revision? I wonder how it compares with CM4, S8 etc etc
Hi RJT - so many mics, so little time! For seem reason I've never run into the Oktava mics, just happenstance I suppose. I'll put them on the list but I think next up will be Sontronics and then maybe the Rycote gun mics. The thing is buying mics is an expensive hobby and I'm thinking about doing a Patreon page with 24/96 KHz wav files. And in the mean time I'll keep an eye out for an Oktava. Ta like, ppm6.
That’s a great idea!
I don’t know the sontronics, I’m intrigued
@@travelthebest2676 Sontronics - designed in the UK made in China. They've been around a while and are very affordable but relatively low key in the market place. Ta like, ppm6.
I’ll have a look thanks, I’d love to have a take on with Line audio, Km184, Austrian Audio CC8. Battle of the SDC. Have you tried the CC8? It’s got a higher noise floor than the Neumann but is more flat
And the S8
I’m currently converting sound companies in Trinidad and Tobago from the Shure/Senheiser to SE. it’s a very underrated brand.
sE make excellent mics - which models are you providing in T&T? Ta like, ppm6.
Neumann seems more focused in the low end and a little smoother up top. The SE although not harsh seems to have abit of an annoying resonance around 5k maybe? What do you think?
Hi James, thanks for commenting. If you believed the whole story was told in the frequency response curves then you might think the 184 would be brighter. However the sE8's smaller presence boost looks like it is centred on 7K so.... I know brands and labels do work on us at some almost subliminal level but I think the 184 is a classic for a reason and that reason is how good it sounds. Having said that the sE8 is a third of the price in the UK and to be honest it's a very attractive proposition and with careful placement will deliver excellent results. Ta like, ppm7.
@@ppmtv-qh9qk I think you misunderstood me a little bit! I was just saying the Km84 is a little smoother up top(less bright), and that I heard abit of a more pronounced presence in the SE somewhere around 5k(but its 7k okay, I was somewhat close lol), thats just what my ears heard from watching the video. The SE sounds great for the money, I agree. Also, thats a great point about reading frequency charts, and there being alot more to it like the source, the placement, the room, among other things.. I agree for sure! But ya, my comment was just based off what I was hearing in your demo! just to clarify!
Thanks James, your point about the graph not being the whole story is borne out by this example. The 184 has a bigger presence boost than the sE8 but is often described as 'smoother'. An interesting comparison is between the sE8 and the Line Audio CM4 - the CM4 is ruler flat from 100 to 20k, gentle roll off below 100. Have a listen...
th-cam.com/video/Xm6EBt185Xc/w-d-xo.html
Ta like, ppm6.
Can you compare to the NEW Universal Audio SP1 mics THANKS!
Hi Esteven, thanks for alerting me to the Universal Audio SP1 mics a very interesting new product on the market. I'll try and get some, it's not always easy. Thanks for dropping by and for the suggestion. Ta like, ppm6.
What shotgun microphone do you recommend for Filmmaking?
Hi Chris - budget is a big consideration of course. Top contenders in Europe - Schweppes CMIT or a Sennheiser MKH60 - budget about £2k for theses including a windshield suspension system. At half that price an MKH 416 is a good choice if you want to get an idea of the difference watch this -
th-cam.com/video/Dhm1RXql_ls/w-d-xo.html
Cheaper again, well Rode have a good rep - people who know say the NTG3 is a 416 clone. I very much liked the Sanken CSM1 - it’s a shorter gun than mot here but a good choice. Audio Technica’s range is also good - and there are bargains in the second hand market. Talking of which I started with a second hand 416. Be patient and wait for a good one. I should have asked - what is your budget and what sort of projects are you planning to work on? Ta like, ppm6.
Great video - thanks alot. I have a C391B, but need a stereo pair and have been thinking about a second AKG (mine is almost 30 years old, but was not used that much), but fear that a) mine might have lost some sensitivity and buying a used AKG might be a risk that the mike was possibly misused or just aged. In that case I think the SE8 might be as good or maybe even a bit better than the AKG. Your sound comparison and another one I heart (to the KM184) showed that the SE8 is very close to the Neumann, and in some instances even preferred IMO.
Some commented on the high noise level of the SE8, which they thought would be around 18 or 19 dB compared to the 13 dB of the specs. The AKG has 17 dB self-noise and I do not want to loose on that. In your video I could not hear a higher noise from the SE8 compared to the Neumanns. So that does sound good and does not imply that (current) SE8 suffer from high self-noise.
I think I'll take the plunge and order a pair of the SE8 to test them out myself against the AKG and likely will sell the AKG then.
Hi Nick - I haven't had any problems with self noise when using the sE8 - though mostly I've been using it in live situations where noise might go unnoticed. I'd be interested to see the reports of problems? I like my AKGs and for sheer choice of capsules they are well ahead of the sE (no plans for hyper or figure of 8s I'm afraid) but the sE8 is such a bargain and as you say avoids the lottery of the second hand market. Let me know how you get on. If I get a chance I'll do some noise tests. Ta like, ppm6.
@@ppmtv-qh9qk Thanks for your answer. Would be great to hear a noise test. I think one would need to record a fixed tone at a fixed position with fixed amp settings and in post adjust the level of two mics to compare the noise level meaningfully, right?
In this video one can also here more noise in the SE8 than the NT5
th-cam.com/video/aPRHzRn5kr8/w-d-xo.html
Many have found the SE8 to be quite noisy -- in contrast to their advertising. Here one can here several microphones compared (you need to login to be able to access the DAW online). There it is super clear that the SE8 has the highest noise of all tested mics: www.bandlab.com/musictech/microphone-shootout-se8-ac-guit?revId=777c6acf-d6d3-e911-bcd0-2818789a0161
Thanks Nick, I'll check out those links. I think you are right, in order to compensate for the different sensitivity of the mics you have to have a fixed gain tone source or something similar to act as a reference and then use that to set the correct gain in the DAW before judging the noise. I'm busy this week but maybe next I'll give it a go. Thanks for the info! What is in the Nick mic cupboard? Ta like, ppm6.
@@ppmtv-qh9qk Thanks a lot. A noise comparison would be great. I have one 391 only, but need a stereo pair.
@@nickgoogle4525 My sE8 is noisier than the Behringer B5.
The sE8 self noise is closer to 20db(A) instead of the advertised 13db(A).
My sE8 has the latest Rev.C PCB from 2021.
The SE8 sounds drier in your comparison- the KM184 seems to pick up more breath detail, room noise etc.
Hi Lee, thanks for careful listening and the comment. The sE8 has won a lot of friends for its sound and affordability and build quality. Having said that many prefer still the Neumann and that is personal choice and I'm glad we have variety. Ta like, ppm6.
Have you ever tried the SE7? Or have you heard anything on what exactly the differences are between the SE7 and SE8? Also can I get your opinion on something? Between the SE8 and Lewitt Air's, which would you recommend for Rock Hi Hats/Ride/Cymbal Spot Micing, and drum Overheads? And one more thing, can you think of any other SDC pairs that would be a good contender, or that you'd recommend in that same price range? Thanks man!
Hi James, thanks for a good question. I haven't tried the sE7. The main difference is that the sE8 is a true capacitor mic and the sE7 an electret (prepolarised capsule). That used to be a big deal but not so much now. The specs for both are very similar, they quote the same maximum spl for the two mics for instance. I like the Lewitt Airs - they are very flexible with the 'air' options and though a little noisier compared to the sE8, on drums you will never have to worry about that. I think either sE8 or 140 will do a great job. The Lewitt is cheaper and more flexible. As to other affordable mics - the Line Audio CM4 is the greatest cheap mic in the world, but it has no pad which might well be an issue for your use case. The Sontronics STC-1 is a contender, but don't let it fall on your head, it's a very heavy mic. I'm sorry as a non drummer I can't be more helpful. Hope the search goes well. Ta like, ppm6.
Neumann’s 180 series, and the 80s before it, are readily identifiable for their clear as glass midrange. No tone stands out, no resonances are heard and it dynamically responds to any sound with uncanny accuracy, particularly throughout the all-important middle frequencies.
I love microphones that do this. The Schoeps CMC series is famous for it. Put up almost anything else to compare and hear it right away. Zero hype, ruler flat response, and clarity. That’s all I need. There are competitors, such as AKG C480 and Sennheiser MKH series, and there are even dynamics to compare, Sennheiser 441, AKG D224E come to mind.
The KMs were developed for studio and concert use, to be able to cover a very broad selection of instruments. From tympani to woodwinds to ambiance to close drum kit, I don’t recall anything they don’t excel at.
Lovely summary of the KM184 and indeed KM84. And I think you pin point the strengths of the Neumanns well and the reason they are a studio standard. But you might prefer a flatter mic like the 480 or indeed the Line Audio CM4 and of course Schoeps make microphones that are very flat. The one failing of the Nuemann's is their proneness to mechanical handling noise and popping in speech. But on the other hand, they are not expensive for the quality they deliver. Schoeps, 480s and Sennheisers are all more expensive. Ta like, ppm6.
I bought the sE8 and compared it to my Behringer B5.
The sE8 is a lot noisier than the B5, and has the same frequency response when analyzing pink noise.
I recommend the B5 instead, I regret buying the sE8 for almost 300$.
Hi James, sorry to hear the sE8 hasn't worked out for you. I'm surprised at the price are you in the US? Here in the UK the sE8 is £130 inc the tax. I'll ask the sE guys about noise and see what they say. Ta like, ppm6.
I’m close to buying a pair of sE8s. Nothing is holding me back on the quality/price ratio - if anything, they seem to be hands-down winners. But they’re designed and made in China, albeit with a family company that professes to have employee-centric values. Who know? I’ve just had it with China these days. Does that mean I’ll spend 4x for German mics? Probably not.
Hi Bob - I feel your pain! How about the Line Audio CM4s - similar price, made in Sweden... though the capsule is probably made in China.
th-cam.com/video/T5f2JFjSILE/w-d-xo.html
Let me know how the dilemma works out. Ta like, ppm6.
Thanks for your review! I'd rather buy a sE8 than a Neumann. And the output of 25mV is just insane. Once I had to film and record a play and naively used my LineAudios. The hiss - result of only 8mV of output - was hard on the edge of ruining the sound.
Hi Klaus - I think sE will have many happy customers. As a matter of interest what preamps were you using with the LIneAudios? Thanks for the comment. Ta like, ppm6.
@@ppmtv-qh9qk I used the preamps of the Panasonic XLR-adapter. I used it before with the Sennheiser MKH50 (also 25mV output), not a problem. Lesson learned:-)
You inspired me with your style of comparisons. I did it myself (it will go online tomorrow). Can you speak german?
I guess that is one of the times when that extra output oomph is very welcome. Please don't tell Miss Gauss but my German is terrible, it wasn't her fault she tried hard and I can just about remember the title of our text book - Wenn Engel Reisen - but to be honest the shock of an inflected language like German was too great for my linguistic capabilities. I got by just be learning some vocabulary. But please send me a link to the video - looking forward to it!! Ta like, ppm6.
@@ppmtv-qh9qk Wenn Engel reisen, they take direction Karlsruhe, where Schöps mics are build. Just 1 hour away from my home:-)
I didn't find another way to send you the link and I don't want to highjack your commentary section. So you can delete it after finding. Here is my video: th-cam.com/video/NV0H-dcdVgQ/w-d-xo.html
Hi Klaus - what a lovely video - I guess FilmMaker is not just for show. Two top mics and you can't go wrong with a Rod Stewart classic. Great test, wish you all the best with the channel. Ta like, ppm6.
To me the sE8 does not sound as good as either the Neumann or the Line Audio.
By the way, a year ago I was contemplating whether to buy a stereo pair of Neumanns, but found the similarly priced Røde TF-5 more appealing - I simply think they're better, so that's what I went with
Thanks Lau - I haven't heard the TF-5 but I have heard good things about them. What do you mostly use them for? Ta like, ppm6.
Do you think that the Se8 are better than the lewitt LCT040 or LCT140 ?
Hi David, good question. Sadly I haven't tried the Lewitt mics but they have a good reputation. I'll try and get some in. A couple of points. The sE8 is quieter if you believe their figures. Note some people don't believe their noise figures and I'm working on a video - my impression is that the sE8 is indeed a quiet mic. Are the noise figures important? Well it depends on what sort of recording you are planning? As to the frequency response the sE8 has a presence boost like the Neumann and the 140 when switched to 'Air' mode but the Lewitt140 also has a flat position, which makes it that little bit more flexible. What is the rest of your gear? Ta like, ppm6.
Hi David - Lewitt mics on the way for testing! Ta like, ppm6.
@@ppmtv-qh9qk I'm one questioning the noise figures. I have made a comparison to my C391B and the SE8 (I just got) is indeed noisier, while it should be quieter according the specs. I'd say the noise is a about 2 dB higher than the C391B, that would mean a self noise of about 19dB.
When you look at gearspace and check out some threads where people have posted comparisons between the SE8 and KM184 often more people prefer the SE8. And when watching your video here I also think the SE8 sounds better and more natural than the KM184. But it is significantly more noisy than the KM184.
Oh, for the comparison I did I taped the two mics together and then put them in a distance of about 2 meters to a single (calibrated) speaker. I set the audio interface to the exact same gain for both channels (in contrast to many other interfaces and mic-amps it's possible to set the exact gain numbers for the Babyface Pro. This to ensure that the noise added from the interface is similar for both mics. Which would not be the case when level matching during the recording already!). I recorded than "silence" (with the ambient room noise I cannot get rid off), 1000Hz, a sweep and two different kind of multitones. I level-matched the two mics in post (-8dB for the SE8 according to the specs is the sensitivy difference -- which correlates pretty good to the perceived and Peak/LUFS-measured difference). I then compared the silence recording as well as the snippets with the test tones via a LUFS-calculation (Youlean Online tool). From the calculated numbers the C391B and SE8 do not differ that much in noise. Depending on what exactly you compare (integrated LUFS, max. and so on) sometimes the SE8 appears to be a bit less noisy or a bit more noisy than the C391B. Although when listening the SE8 always appears to be more noisy. One can also hear less clear when a distant very low level signal (kids on the street, far away or similar) is hidden in the "silence" track. To match the perception of noise from the SE8 and C391B one must decrease the SE8-level by an additional 1 or 2dB (in addition to the -8 level matching). So therefore I think the SE8 indeed is more noisy. But I will likely keep the stereo pair, because it sounds really good and in a recording of acoustic guitar or spoken word one does not notice the noise, except when hearing very loud _and_ listening for the noise.
I think SE does not tell the truth about the noise and / or the metric does not make sense here (A-weighted) to reflect the perception.
Hi Nick - first thanks for doing the hard work of a real world test! I know how hard it is to do that right and get repeatable figures. I have actually made some recordings but haven't tested them yet as I got distracted by the Lewitt mics and now they are here! There is no doubt the KM184 is a very good performer when noise is considered and this is reflected in the price. And your 391 would also be a fair bit more than the sE8 new. There is the question of course of the published specifications. When I have had a chance to listen and measure the figures I will speak to sE about their measurements as I do have a contact. Again thanks for your feedback and your hard work. Ta like, ppm6.
Hi David - first Lewitt LCT 040 video is up!
th-cam.com/video/sTubBujPMdg/w-d-xo.html
Ta like, ppm6.
I prefer Sennheiser (MKH406, MK40,50..) cigars for Neuman (184), due to the mid frequencies..
Hi PH - those MKH mics are great - I have a 406 video here th-cam.com/video/oFHeLElhxFU/w-d-xo.html
But, they are expensive and now it seems Sennheiser have stopped production of the MKH40 and are backing the 8040 instead. Hope all is well in Norway, are those Fyne audio drive unites on your TH-cam channel home page? Ta like, ppm6.
Try Slate ML-2!
Thanks Jorge - I'll look out for one. Good of you to drop by. Ta like, ppm6.
I have both Slate ML 2s and SE8. The Slate does sound good and is versatile with the software, BUT the build quality and robustness is very substandard. When I first bought them, one turned up bust and had to be replaced, then after a few years use one of them developed an intermittant noise problem and was letting me down on sessions. That's when I decided to look for something else. The SE8s sound excellent as is their build quality.
@@christhechive I agree! ML-2 sounds amazing but built quality is lower than SE Mics In own a few too. You need to check if the ML-2 capsule is fully curled up, one time happened to me too, and then I fixed like that.
Ha.. can barely notice the difference between em.. I'd much rather spend my money on the sE8 and avoid being a brand snob. I mean c'mon.. The sE8 Price + PAD + Roll Off, and sound that's not that much different to the KM184...
Thanks Kenneth - I think the sE8 will go nicely on that acoustic guitar! Ta like, ppm6.
The story is km84 than came the km140, double the price. Technicians complaint about the price, and than came the km184.
Thanks Paul, great to have a bit of history. There are those who still swear by the original 84, I don't have one so I can't tell and all the ones I used in work had seen long and hard service. I remember a colleague dropping one from the grid, ouch. The 184 is a bargain. Ta like, ppm6.
Beyer MC930
Hi Ivan - Good spot! I passed on a deal for a pair of MC930's and now I regret it. Mind you I have the cheap Beyer from the 90's somewhere and it is the poppiest mic I have ever had, worse even than the KM84! I can't find it now but I'll give it a whirl sometime. But if an MC930 comes up I'll grab it. Some people say it is a bit noisier than the competition - have you got one? btw I thought some of your drone footage looked tremendously Welsh - and was pleased to find they were Cornish fields and I wasn't too far out! Ta like, ppm6
blah blah blah ... and not a single sound sample, what's the point?
Indeed Perry if there were no samples there would be no point at all :-
2:06 sE8,
4:21 KM184
5:58 KM184 @ 90 degrees
6:54 sE8 @ 90 degrees
7:39 bonus ball Line Audio CM4
These time stamps are in the video description...Blah, blah, blah, blah
@@ppmtv-qh9qk You’re right. I definitely need a new pair of eye glasses. My apologies. I’ll try to watch it again. Thank you for sharing.
No worries - these days a two minute introduction is probably 1 minute 50 seconds too long! Ta like, ppm6.