It is always entertaining reading through the comments when the tank vs tankless debate gets fired up! We should all keep in mind that there is almost never a standard solution that fits every circumstance with our trade ! Keeping an open mind and our customers long term respect is what is most important in my humble opinion.
I have installed them for years. They are great. But a few points to make out. You need to size it for the house meaning they have GPM and different size burners. You have to know the amount of gas you have available. It must be sized correctly. Or the unit will not work correctly. Also yes the unit is about the cost of a tank heater but your install cost can be vastly different from customer to customer. Because of location in the home. I prefer an outdoor unit if one can be installed because it cuts back on intake and exhaust pipping. Also the comments people are making on. Maintenance. Yes, Renada and other manufacturers recommend that you do maintenance on the unit and annual cleaning. If you are handy, it can be done yourself. It is not very hard or you can pay a company a fee just like any system in your home most need annual service, but a lot of people do not do it. Your HVAC needs annual service and checks, your furnace needs annual service and checks so to me that is a small cost myself a charge $150 to go out and clean a tankless water heater. Add to inspected annually for my customer. I have also went and seen tankless is that have been installed for over 15 to 20 years that the customer has never had serviced and they called me with an issue so if you think about it that’s a long life span and they are getting more cost effective I have been around them for about 12 years now and the cost of a basic one is around a tank cost. You also do not have to have one with the recirculating pump. You can get a basic model like a V series. It’s a basic unit that would work and the majority of homes just fine. The key Takeaway in my entire comment is it Has to be size correctly for the volume of gas and it Has to be size correctly for the home if it is size correctly, Dearing a high fire situation where the demand is high the unit will keep up. I’ve never had an issue where I didn’t get hot water when I wanted to take a shower. My kids have hot water when they wanted to take a shower the dishwasher was getting hot water. The washing machine was getting hot water, as long as it size correctly, the issue that happens is people see a $600 unit or a $500 unit and they think that that’s gonna work in a home that has 4 bathrooms a big laundry sink a washing machine and is over 3,500 4,000 st. Ft. And that’s not realistic. In that case you may actually need two tankless water heaters one for each zone of the house or one big one with a recirculating pump. It just depends on the situation of each house but they are more efficient they’re super reliable. If it’s set up correctly, it can run even when your powers off, so for people that live in areas that have storms and power outages you can run the computer off of a standard small generator and still have hot water in your home so to all of the negative comments and all the plumbers that don’t know what they’re talking about. Please do your due diligence and your research before you start bashing the product. They are great for the customer and great for your business. Also in our costal area of you are in a condo or town home insurance companies are making homeowners replace tank heaters every 10 years. Because of them busting and cussing extreme water damage. Outdoor tankless unit fails or has a issue it’s dumping water out side not in your home at 20 gallons a minute. It is the future and I see more and more new construction with it standard
Rodger, I love your videos man. They are such a balanced mix of funny and educational. Truly great content, and it really makes me consider plumbing as a future career!
As a painter (custom cabinet finisher with a business) be a plumber!!!!! Service techs can make 80-130k without being in management at a good service only company. I have a friend that started a plumbing business 2 years ago and already have over 10 trucks/techs, I've seen his payscale for his guys. Companies like his hire guys that are already plumbers. So in some cases you'll have to work your way up, get the trade licenses/journeyman etc. Don't be afraid to job hop, but also understand when you're at a good company. Wish you the best man.
Roger Said, "Forget everything you know about tankless water heaters" So I did. Then he started talking about tankless water heaters and I didn't know what the hell they were.
Not a plumber but came across your channel while researching tankless water heaters 5-6 weeks ago. Pulled the trigger on the Rinnai and haven’t looked back. Wish I would have done this earlier. You are spot on re the cost as well. Replacement for a 80 gallon electric unit was around $700 more than the tankless I had installed. All in my rough cost was $3600 which included all the plumbing from the meter. Appreciate these vids because as they say…”things happen “
So I’m doing my research now after my water heater just started the final death walk this weekend, only gives us about 10-15 mins of hot water. Did you do the instal yourself? I’ve changed a few water heaters now, and always DIY, so now I’m not feeling confident I can do this? My last house was such an easy upgrade and I think i got cocky after the HVAC guys complements…. It’s good to stay humble with home repairs 😂
@@Blacksea505 no I did not install it. Probably would have if had gone back with electric but since it is gas just decided to leave it to the professionals.
We have a Rheem electric tankless water heater. it has been throwing different codes with the latest being 52C which is weird because all I am seeing is that it is for a gas tankless water heater. I have a whole house water filter (big blue) but the town drilled a new water well and it is having problems with murky water, red iron, and aluminum. Anyway. We are going to try and install the service valves because I just learned about those this year. The man who installed the original tankless (we are on our 2nd one) didn't use service valves.
I love the Smartcirc feature of those. I installed an external recirc pump controlled by a digital timer that runs the pump about 3x per hour to keep some warm/hot water in the system. Would love the simplicity of this system. I have a smart thermostat that does the same thing, it's cut my energy usage way down.
One of the local gas companies in my area has a program where they target customers homes who are on seasonal service and offer them free Rinnai tankless units if they switch from their electric tank. We do about 100 installs a month for them. My plumbers love it! The customer gets the unit for free and we get paid all the labor to install. The new RE and RSC models are nice but I hate that they don't include the isolation valves in the box anymore.
sure the cost of the units maybe getting closer and closer but the cost of install is the major factor. You almost always have to run a dedicated gas line let alone rerouting water lines, t&p, venting. I love tankless and I think every new home that has a gas type water heater should have a tankless, but the cost to retrofit a tankless correctly is expensive.
How's it going Roger, just wanted to let you know I've been watching your videos ever since I put in my application to become an apprentice at my local union here in Texas for plumbing. Out of the big group only 30 were accepted and I thank God for that chance. Today I went ahead and bought some tools and a tool box and I have my first day at work tomorrow in the morning. Just wanted to let you know you inspire some of the future tradesmen that are still growing up. Thank you for your informational videos 👍👍
I'm a plumber and I'm really getting tired of my customers hating me for installing a tankless they insist I install. It's fine if you have a single person living in a small space but it will not do a family of four with two of them being teens or preteens. I've been refusing to install them unless they have the manufacturer size them for the load in their home. This makes it no less expensive then a standard gas water heater and in many cases even an electric heater. I made my comment before I heard you were sponsored by Rannai. I double down on that comment now.
My house has a water heater in the attic of the garage. I have lived here for 12yrs and yesterday my water heater started leaking and will have to be replaced for a second time. Water flooded my garage and is still dripping after closing the water lines. My wife wants a tankless water heater because of the damage to the roof every time the regular water heater goes bad. This is going to be a difference of almost 3k to change. Is it worth it?
We had an undersized tankless in our 5000 SF house when we bought it and had a Navian installed that recirculates the water so we always have hot water at the taps. It's great. My only concern about tankless water heaters is that they don't provide hot water in a power outage.
get a computer UPS (battery backup box) and plug your tankless water heater into it. Get one of around 1200 watts or so for extended run time. Not only will it give you hot water when the electricity goes out, but it will also protect your water heater from power surges as well.
Thank you for sharing! Our company does all sub sub-surface water main and sewer work in NYC, a completely different world from you! We really appreciate all of the info!
Question, would I be able to substitute a huge tank water heater for a regular tankless? By that I mean that the tank water heaters you have to choose them based off the number of people you have in your house. Would the tankless water heater require that?
Sure, non condensing tankless water heaters are cheaper for the heater itself... until you go to purchase the stainless steel type III vent pipe that is like $80 for a 3' section.
You mean a boiler or combi boiler the uk only really have HWSC in old buildings also you go into battle in a tank and put fish in a tank you keep water in a cistern
People don't maintain their water heaters in General. So if people don't maintain a tank type water heater it could last 10+ years even with neglect, but a neglected tankless water heater will gum up in about 2 to 5 years.
why would someone invest in a non condensing, AKA low efficiency, tankless water heater? Condensing water heaters have efficiency ratings as high as 0.97.
there personally more difficult then normal tank water heaters so we’re charging more for the labor and also there’s way more expensive at least for us
usually, your pay and benefits package is significantly less. you often have to find jobs on your own, and many nonunion employers are more demanding. plus, you may have to start paying for continuing education.
Didn't really address any of my issues with tankless. I'm in the Midwest and aside from ground water temperatures there's multiple issues we talk with customers about when they consider tankless water heaters. Generally once we've explained the pros and cons, they return to wanting a tank type.
How many times are you going to say easy. I would like you to be my apprentice for a install and so me how easy they are to install. As a plumber for thirty years there is no install that is easy, it takes experience and knowledge for any install. You are misleading customers on how easy these installs are. You need to come back down to reality. Reality starts with actually doing an install. Why dont You show a retro fit install in real time so we can see how easy it really is.
It’s not the right way to go. Have to run an entire pvc flue if they don’t have a power vent to start. Have to descale them every year. Have no emergency reservoir of water in an emergency. Have to sometimes build a wall to hang it on. Labor intensive and nothing but maintenance and no emergency water. I’ve talked dozens of people out of these with my points. Ps. The present sucks so it makes sense that this garbage is the future.
Totally agree, I just checked my suppliers site. 50 gal is $900+ cheaper than the tankless. I install garage tank water heaters for $1500 - $1600. The few tankless I’ve done have been $5000 and up. Problem is venting and possibly gas sizing. Not to mention rerouting the water lines so they are below the tankless. Problem in Texas was the freeze they had a few years ago. Power went out and the tankless w/h mounted on outside of the house froze and burst. No power to keep them from freezing. Too many negatives and not enough positives.
@@randysantos6011 yeah! And it plugs in! You might be paying an electrician on top of all of it. I’ve seen people install water softeners as well so they don’t have to descale them but that’s more money too. Endless money pit
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It is always entertaining reading through the comments when the tank vs tankless debate gets fired up! We should all keep in mind that there is almost never a standard solution that fits every circumstance with our trade ! Keeping an open mind and our customers long term respect is what is most important in my humble opinion.
We love our tankless water system. Had it installed by Anderson company in California.
I have installed them for years. They are great. But a few points to make out. You need to size it for the house meaning they have GPM and different size burners. You have to know the amount of gas you have available. It must be sized correctly. Or the unit will not work correctly. Also yes the unit is about the cost of a tank heater but your install cost can be vastly different from customer to customer. Because of location in the home. I prefer an outdoor unit if one can be installed because it cuts back on intake and exhaust pipping. Also the comments people are making on. Maintenance. Yes, Renada and other manufacturers recommend that you do maintenance on the unit and annual cleaning. If you are handy, it can be done yourself. It is not very hard or you can pay a company a fee just like any system in your home most need annual service, but a lot of people do not do it. Your HVAC needs annual service and checks, your furnace needs annual service and checks so to me that is a small cost myself a charge $150 to go out and clean a tankless water heater. Add to inspected annually for my customer. I have also went and seen tankless is that have been installed for over 15 to 20 years that the customer has never had serviced and they called me with an issue so if you think about it that’s a long life span and they are getting more cost effective I have been around them for about 12 years now and the cost of a basic one is around a tank cost. You also do not have to have one with the recirculating pump. You can get a basic model like a V series.
It’s a basic unit that would work and the majority of homes just fine. The key Takeaway in my entire comment is it Has to be size correctly for the volume of gas and it Has to be size correctly for the home if it is size correctly, Dearing a high fire situation where the demand is high the unit will keep up. I’ve never had an issue where I didn’t get hot water when I wanted to take a shower. My kids have hot water when they wanted to take a shower the dishwasher was getting hot water. The washing machine was getting hot water, as long as it size correctly, the issue that happens is people see a $600 unit or a $500 unit and they think that that’s gonna work in a home that has 4 bathrooms a big laundry sink a washing machine and is over 3,500 4,000 st. Ft. And that’s not realistic. In that case you may actually need two tankless water heaters one for each zone of the house or one big one with a recirculating pump. It just depends on the situation of each house but they are more efficient they’re super reliable. If it’s set up correctly, it can run even when your powers off, so for people that live in areas that have storms and power outages you can run the computer off of a standard small generator and still have hot water in your home so to all of the negative comments and all the plumbers that don’t know what they’re talking about. Please do your due diligence and your research before you start bashing the product. They are great for the customer and great for your business. Also in our costal area of you are in a condo or town home insurance companies are making homeowners replace tank heaters every 10 years. Because of them busting and cussing extreme water damage. Outdoor tankless unit fails or has a issue it’s dumping water out side not in your home at 20 gallons a minute. It is the future and I see more and more new construction with it standard
We install a whole lot of rinnai units and love them they are really easy to install
Rodger, I love your videos man. They are such a balanced mix of funny and educational. Truly great content, and it really makes me consider plumbing as a future career!
As a painter (custom cabinet finisher with a business) be a plumber!!!!! Service techs can make 80-130k without being in management at a good service only company. I have a friend that started a plumbing business 2 years ago and already have over 10 trucks/techs, I've seen his payscale for his guys. Companies like his hire guys that are already plumbers. So in some cases you'll have to work your way up, get the trade licenses/journeyman etc. Don't be afraid to job hop, but also understand when you're at a good company. Wish you the best man.
Roger Said, "Forget everything you know about tankless water heaters"
So I did.
Then he started talking about tankless water heaters and I didn't know what the hell they were.
it's been a few years, but without gas, my best option was a heat pump water heater. which, IIRC, cost me about $25.00 after the power company rebate.
it's not the price of the tankless it's all the upgrades and the fact you have to maintain them
Maintaining a tank water heater per manufacture specifications and code is actually more expensive per year. I do agree about the upgrading though.
Not a good choice. Nothing but plumbing. He’s gotta say it’s good he’s sponsored
@@jamesdaniels4219 lol so by that logic you don’t buy any products at all ever because everything is “sponsored” somewhere somehow
And you also have to maintain standard water heaters, so I don't understand your statement.
@@MojoPup exactly mojopup exactly
Not a plumber but came across your channel while researching tankless water heaters 5-6 weeks ago.
Pulled the trigger on the Rinnai and haven’t looked back. Wish I would have done this earlier. You are spot on re the cost as well. Replacement for a 80 gallon electric unit was around $700 more than the tankless I had installed. All in my rough cost was $3600 which included all the plumbing from the meter. Appreciate these vids because as they say…”things happen “
Brother you got a deal
So I’m doing my research now after my water heater just started the final death walk this weekend, only gives us about 10-15 mins of hot water. Did you do the instal yourself? I’ve changed a few water heaters now, and always DIY, so now I’m not feeling confident I can do this? My last house was such an easy upgrade and I think i got cocky after the HVAC guys complements…. It’s good to stay humble with home repairs 😂
@@Blacksea505 no I did not install it.
Probably would have if had gone back with electric but since it is gas just decided to leave it to the professionals.
Oh wow that’s a great deal. Are you located near central NC? What kind of rinnai did you get and why? Thanks for your help
@@charliep5139 sw Mississippi we should really be Louisiana 😬 it’s a tiny bubble that is surrounded by LA
We have a Rheem electric tankless water heater. it has been throwing different codes with the latest being 52C which is weird because all I am seeing is that it is for a gas tankless water heater. I have a whole house water filter (big blue) but the town drilled a new water well and it is having problems with murky water, red iron, and aluminum. Anyway. We are going to try and install the service valves because I just learned about those this year. The man who installed the original tankless (we are on our 2nd one) didn't use service valves.
I love the Smartcirc feature of those. I installed an external recirc pump controlled by a digital timer that runs the pump about 3x per hour to keep some warm/hot water in the system. Would love the simplicity of this system. I have a smart thermostat that does the same thing, it's cut my energy usage way down.
One of the local gas companies in my area has a program where they target customers homes who are on seasonal service and offer them free Rinnai tankless units if they switch from their electric tank. We do about 100 installs a month for them. My plumbers love it! The customer gets the unit for free and we get paid all the labor to install. The new RE and RSC models are nice but I hate that they don't include the isolation valves in the box anymore.
sure the cost of the units maybe getting closer and closer but the cost of install is the major factor. You almost always have to run a dedicated gas line let alone rerouting water lines, t&p, venting. I love tankless and I think every new home that has a gas type water heater should have a tankless, but the cost to retrofit a tankless correctly is expensive.
How's it going Roger, just wanted to let you know I've been watching your videos ever since I put in my application to become an apprentice at my local union here in Texas for plumbing. Out of the big group only 30 were accepted and I thank God for that chance. Today I went ahead and bought some tools and a tool box and I have my first day at work tomorrow in the morning. Just wanted to let you know you inspire some of the future tradesmen that are still growing up. Thank you for your informational videos 👍👍
Love hearing this! Hope you enjoy it, never stop learning 💪🏻
Can you please talk about the maintenance for the tankless option- for the homeowner? Thanks so much. THUMBS UP!
I'm a plumber and I'm really getting tired of my customers hating me for installing a tankless they insist I install. It's fine if you have a single person living in a small space but it will not do a family of four with two of them being teens or preteens.
I've been refusing to install them unless they have the manufacturer size them for the load in their home. This makes it no less expensive then a standard gas water heater and in many cases even an electric heater.
I made my comment before I heard you were sponsored by Rannai. I double down on that comment now.
Facts
My house has a water heater in the attic of the garage. I have lived here for 12yrs and yesterday my water heater started leaking and will have to be replaced for a second time. Water flooded my garage and is still dripping after closing the water lines. My wife wants a tankless water heater because of the damage to the roof every time the regular water heater goes bad. This is going to be a difference of almost 3k to change. Is it worth it?
We had an undersized tankless in our 5000 SF house when we bought it and had a Navian installed that recirculates the water so we always have hot water at the taps. It's great. My only concern about tankless water heaters is that they don't provide hot water in a power outage.
get a computer UPS (battery backup box) and plug your tankless water heater into it. Get one of around 1200 watts or so for extended run time. Not only will it give you hot water when the electricity goes out, but it will also protect your water heater from power surges as well.
In 3 years you will have to replace the heat exchanger
I'm not a plumber, but I installed a Takagi at my house. It was pretty easy.
Thank you for sharing! Our company does all sub sub-surface water main and sewer work in NYC, a completely different world from you! We really appreciate all of the info!
That is awesome! I appreciate y'all coming back to watch
@@RogerWakefield 👌
This looks like a paid advertisement as opposed to original content
Would these work on propane? What is the maintenance and maintenance interval?
Question, would I be able to substitute a huge tank water heater for a regular tankless? By that I mean that the tank water heaters you have to choose them based off the number of people you have in your house. Would the tankless water heater require that?
doing one right now in va
Sure, non condensing tankless water heaters are cheaper for the heater itself... until you go to purchase the stainless steel type III vent pipe that is like $80 for a 3' section.
Can you put a research pump in an on-demand water heater?
Has anyone done the utility cost analysis of Tankless GAS vs ELECTRIC?
Hey Roger,
Have you installed many hybrid heat pump water heaters? I recently learned about them and was curious if you had any thoughts on them.
Funny you ask, I have a video about that coming out VERY soon so keep your eyes peeled
You mean a boiler or combi boiler the uk only really have HWSC in old buildings also you go into battle in a tank and put fish in a tank you keep water in a cistern
Hirsch pipe and supply.
San Marcos, Ca.
Honestly they're quite expensive upfront. Most bids aren't under 6,000
They forgot to explain the vent gas and water all those thing at a normal house with a tank will need all that done
People don't maintain their water heaters in General. So if people don't maintain a tank type water heater it could last 10+ years even with neglect, but a neglected tankless water heater will gum up in about 2 to 5 years.
What about the venting ???
Video gets an automatic like due to Napoleon dynamite clip.
Stay electric simple and can be repaired the same day nice to be able to team up with a major company
Do I have to increase gas line
Good chance you will.
maybe, one might have 40k btu and the other 200k btu.
why would someone invest in a non condensing, AKA low efficiency, tankless water heater? Condensing water heaters have efficiency ratings as high as 0.97.
The problem is plumbers charge tooooooo much for tankless
there personally more difficult then normal tank water heaters so we’re charging more for the labor and also there’s way more expensive at least for us
for the most part no, we charge the amount needed to answer the phone the next time you call.
Is there a penalty for leaving the union after getting your journeyman license?
No why there should be a penalaty
usually, your pay and benefits package is significantly less. you often have to find jobs on your own, and many nonunion employers are more demanding. plus, you may have to start paying for continuing education.
maybe if you want to come back
Didn't really address any of my issues with tankless. I'm in the Midwest and aside from ground water temperatures there's multiple issues we talk with customers about when they consider tankless water heaters. Generally once we've explained the pros and cons, they return to wanting a tank type.
How many times are you going to say easy. I would like you to be my apprentice for a install and so me how easy they are to install. As a plumber for thirty years there is no install that is easy, it takes experience and knowledge for any install. You are misleading customers on how easy these installs are. You need to come back down to reality. Reality starts with actually doing an install. Why dont You show a retro fit install in real time so we can see how easy it really is.
so Roger your pushing the tankless idea because rynai sponsor the video as I have said all along your a 🔧
Bummer
Remember his price pfister is a good product video sponsored by price pfister? Garbage
It’s not the right way to go. Have to run an entire pvc flue if they don’t have a power vent to start. Have to descale them every year. Have no emergency reservoir of water in an emergency. Have to sometimes build a wall to hang it on. Labor intensive and nothing but maintenance and no emergency water. I’ve talked dozens of people out of these with my points.
Ps. The present sucks so it makes sense that this garbage is the future.
Lol stay in the stone ages water heaters are actually more expensive to maintain if you go by manufacture specs.
Totally agree, I just checked my suppliers site. 50 gal is $900+ cheaper than the tankless. I install garage tank water heaters for $1500 - $1600. The few tankless I’ve done have been $5000 and up. Problem is venting and possibly gas sizing. Not to mention rerouting the water lines so they are below the tankless. Problem in Texas was the freeze they had a few years ago. Power went out and the tankless w/h mounted on outside of the house froze and burst. No power to keep them from freezing. Too many negatives and not enough positives.
@@randysantos6011 yeah! And it plugs in! You might be paying an electrician on top of all of it. I’ve seen people install water softeners as well so they don’t have to descale them but that’s more money too. Endless money pit
@@360.Fishing you mean the high price of attaching a garden hose and flushing it? Jesus Christ how do people make it out there?
@@eyepodoblivion1189 lol anode rod, T&P valve, and flushing. All that has variables guy