@@ichisichify Shadowdark is what 6e should be. Black Hack can't fill those shoes. Black Hack is so lean that it feels cheap. And it's too divergent from what it claims to clone. So it doesn't appeal to a large audience the way Shadowdark does. And the art sucks while Shadowdark's art is wicked.
I noticed the order in which you named the D&D character attributes: Strength, Intelligence, Wisdom, Dexterity, Constitution, and Charisma. Old school, baby.
@@russellharrell2747 That sent me scrambling back to my White Box, and you’re right! I guess I got caught up in the newfangled Advanced Dungeons and Dragons and forgot my roots. 😄
Great list, Professor. I wish you had given an honourable mention to Basic Fantasy Roleplay, because it was the first OSR attempt. Also, Gonnerman has done us the curtesy of giving the pdfs away for free and selling the books at cost. I don't think it's a top-ten-pick, but it's great for someone who doesn't have the money to buy any books, and it fits your criteria. Even so, you've put up a great list.
OSRIC was the first OSR attempt, actually. If we are using the more recent revisionist usage of OSR to mean just B/X clones then BFRP is the first one, though.
@@shinankoku2 Basic Fantasy Roleplay (BFR) was the first B/X dnd retroclone. You are thinking of Basic Role-playing (BRP) which is derived from Runequest and served as the basis for Call of Cthulu.
Worlds Without Number (WWN) by Kevin Crawford, add Stars WN and you have it covered. Now I noticed the Professor's list favors simple and streamlined games, which is awesome, I'm not sure WWN falls into that category though(really it doesn't). However, for me, it is the perfect system to inspire you(and help you) to create and find new takes on our favorite genre. Like the AD&D DMG with all of it's flaws, it was the most inspirational resource of it's time. WWN is that for the modern D&D clone era. IMHO.
I’d like to see the professor’s take on WWN both as a system and as a DM resource. Where ICRPG provides a masterclass to DM’s on engaging encounter design, WWN does the same for creating and running a sandbox.
10. Knave 9. Deathbringer 8. The Black Hack 7. Index Card RPG 6. Astonishing Swordsmen & Sorcerers of Hyperborea 5. Lamentations of the Flame Princess 4. Dungeon Crawl Classics 3. Castles & Crusades 2. Old School Essentials 1. Shadowdark HM: Five Torches Deep
The Open D&D philosophy changed the way I play fantasy TTRPGs completely, and I can say for sure that my fellow-players and I have more fun playing those games today than the official versions of D&D itself - which is still great, don't get me wrong, there's a lot of great things to learn about it - for instance, the amazing advantage/disadvantage mechanics of 5E, which Prof. DM employed masterfully in his "Deathbringer" RPG.
@@DUNGEONCRAFT1 If Villains & Vigilantes doesn't make the list, I'll be...irritated. 🦡 However, that's my natural state so it's all good! 😂 It is amazing how the popularity of OSR basics accelerated into the bare bones of the Mörk Borg simplicity. I'm surprised more love isn't being heaped upon Star Frontiers (a true standout), Top Secret (original version, not that SI abomination), a host of stuff from FGU (NOT Space Opera), Mayfair's Chill and Tunnels & Trolls to name a few.
I think all of the material made by Kevin Crawford of Sine Nomine Publishing. Scarlet Heroes, Silent Legions, Stars Without Number, Worlds Without Number, Godbound and soon Cities Without Number.
So glad Kelsey over at The Arcane Library is getting her flowers from the community right now. As you pointed out, her writing style is spot on for what you need to run without getting too verbose.
I'm not surprised Five Torches Deep got relegated to an honorable mention because Shadowdark pretty much does what Five Torches Deep tries to do, but does it in better and more polished ways in every aspect. I can't wait for my full version to arrive.
I don't know why people like Shadowdark. I've looked at it and there's nothing there. Just a bunch of rules seen in every other OSR publication and tables that you can find for free on the net. It's just hype.
@@ratatatuff If you are already into OSR, then you are right, Shadowdark is nothing special. As you said, it is stuff that we've seen elsewhere, and it doesn't have the kind of flavor that rules like Mörk Borg or Troika offer. But for getting people who've never strayed outside of 5e to try OSR, it is AMAZING. Shadowdark has taken all those OSR elements, and wrapped them in an easy-to-digest package that is 5e-adjacent enough to not feel alien to those players. I'm running two Shadowdark tables with 5e-centric players, and they can't get enough of it. I myself am stunned how much these 5e players are loving Shadowdark. Clearly the ruleset is doing its job very well. Shadowdark is not the be-all end-all OSR ruleset. It's the gateway ruleset to turn more people into OSR devotees (or at least get them to look outside 5e), and I can attest to its effectiveness.
I can, along with Prof. DM, highly recommend OSE, especially for those, like me, who were out of the hobby for a few decades. One great feature of OSE are the rules for Retainers: player characters can hire and employ retainers in adventures (within limits!). This was especially useful when, for a few months, my D&D group was down to just two players and myself: I had the players hire retainers and, presto!, it was as if we had doubled the number of players. This feature worked really well (as DM, I played the retainers, but my players did all their rolls); best of all, my players loved it.
II very much enjoy Lion & Dragon RPG and the campaign Dark Albion for the game, which takes D&D into a low fantasy medieval England setting. It has more of a Game of Thrones feeling than a Lord of the Rings high-fantasy aspect. The details, research, and information are amazing. Probably my favorite itteration of an OSR D&D type game.
Great video Professor. I have played most of those games. BX is what I started with back in the early 80’s and is probably still is my go to, but I also enjoy running Basic Fantasy and White Box Medieval Cheers from Canada Bob
I'll be honest, the only one of these that is for me is Castles & Crusades, but it's a great list nonetheless. I'd like to give a shout-out to Flatland Games and their somewhat loosely _OD&D/BD&D_-based games _Beyond the Wall_ and _Through Sunken Lands_ for adventures with a Prydain/Earthsea feel or a Conan/Elric feel, respectively. You can just roll characters the classic way, but the standard creation method uses playbooks with major life event tables until the start of the campaign, which really help with well-rounded character backstories. Particularly in _BtW,_ in which all the player characters grew up together in (or near) a single village (co-created during session zero) and are now tasked to save it from an emerging threat in a folkloric coming-of-age adventure (or tragically die trying), presumably at about sixteen years of age, as that has explicitly been the minimum human starting age in all edition of _Dungeons & Dragons_ (and _Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay_ among others) so far, but they oddly don't specify beyond "youth". Player characters in _TSL,_ on the other hand, are supposed to have at least some experience and thus likely age under their belt. And for beer and pretzels dungeon-crawl one-shots, their _Grizzled Adventurers_ is a solid choice, although for that type of game I prefer Dungeonslayers (with the alternative magic system), which is OSR in spirit, but barely resembles D&D mechanically beyond using a d20.
Great list and I'm happy to see Castles & Crusades so high on the list. One thing I really like about C&C is that I can run any adventure for any edition of D&D (expect maybe 4E) and any other OSR system and do the conversion during the game. Their claim as the Rosetta Stone of D&D is very true. Classes are easy to convert over as well, and the Codex line of books...the perfect blend of history and myth to bring to the table.
I enjoyed this video! For another honorable mention, or at least an OSR nod, the Basic Fantasy RPG 3rd Edition. It was the first OSR RPG out the gate with OSRIC right on its heals. It's essentially B/X D&D with separate race and class and ascending AC. And it has a fantastic community of fan-made products. Another mention for me would to 5E Hardcore Mode, but I guess it's probably too tied to 5e for playing it to be it's own separate mention. FWIW, of those on the list, I so far own Shadowdark, Five Torches Deep, Hyperborea, and Lamentations of the Flame Princess.
Fun vid! I’m a bit surprised to not see Basic Fantasy RPG on here. I’d recommend having a look if you haven’t already-I’d describe it as “Old School Essentials except the presentation isn’t as nice but the organization and clarity are way better. Also it’s free.”
I love that you paid attention to the actual binding of the books and the ribbons included. I might have to seek out Castles and Crusades by Troll Lord. Thanks, Prof!
I recommend the 8th printing of C&C. They don't do editions, just printings. They just add or change things for the better. IMHO, the best monk and ranger ever! They're all good, but those I feel are never done right by others. Also, the 8th printing C&C players handbook will take the classes all way to 24th level if you get there.
Shadowdark would be more Molvey B/X or BECMIi. Where C&C more Gygax AD&D. I've read the quick start rules for Shadowdark. Give me about week or so with the Pdf lol I'm looking forward to Shadowdark. However, if I how to pick one. I'd go with Castles and Crusades.
All in all a good selection of games! I would like to add Basic Fantasy Role Playing Game to the mix, however. Old school goodness with a vibrant community and at a reasonable price too!
I've been tempted to play a few of these. I just recently got Dungeon World. I know you've reviewed it before, and that review was one of the reasons I got it. It's fantastic! If West End Games Star Wars is the most movie-like Star Wars game experience, then Dungeon World is the most movie-like D&D experience. It's fast, flexible, and a joy to run.
Good list, shame Basic Fantasy RPG was not here considering how much more accessible it is for anybody to try, it's free as a pdf and the physical book is a literal few dollars. The system is great too.
I missed Whitehack, a simple roll under d20 system where the character skills and relationships and race are described by their "groups" associated to their six ability scores, which grants advantage ("double positive" in the game's terms) to the roll. The three beginning classes are very flexible: - The Strong chooses a combat feat from a list every level; - The Deft can use his groups with any abilities and gain "attunements" to exert special feats of skill; and - The Wise, uses phrases written by the player to cast "miracles". I specially like the magic system, used by the Wise class. They can use their miracle phrases to do anything that would make sense, but difficult and powerful miracles may be charged with higher HP costs, like 2d6+1, which can be reduced by consuming ingredients or increasing the cast time, at the GM's discretion.
I'm currently running an AD&D/Shadowdark family game. I have four decades of D&D material that can be converted to Shadowdark by recalculating AC. XP is much easier to calculate and leveling up is quick and easy. It's a great introduction to fantasy role playing games. The Fam are just pulling into a village called Orlane near the Dim Forrest with a wagon full of loot from the Caverns of Chaos. The sun is setting and storm clouds gather. Where to stay for the night, The Golden Grain or The Slumbering Serpent? This pairs well with "Goodnight Moon," by Shivaree.
DungeonWorld changed my life. It's not something that Dungeon Craft would like I'm guessing, but DungeonWorld most closely emulates epic, movie-like adventure and combat and fast-paced action.
I second the request for a review of Worlds without Number by Kevin Crawford. Questing Beast thought highly enough of it to give two videos, and after reading it myself, I am constantly surprised by how little it is mentioned.
I agree and am really looking forward to receiving my copy of Shadowdark! Been playing D&D since 1982 and think this will fresh things up quite well. Grimdark rules! Thanx for your great videos, all the best from Germany
The only edition of D&D I played when I just began with TTRPG's was 3.5. I don't know yet if I don't like the 3.5 system or was just the master that made me hate it, but I grew with resentment with D&D. Time after, I gave a chance to 5e as a player and I like it way more. So I thought to myself that maybe I finally can start to DM'ing the world's most famous roleplaying game and have a good time doing it. But as I was learning more and more about 5e, something didn't end up hooking me, so I gave up untill I began to know some Retroclones. At last, Castles & Crusades hooked me up and now I really start to enjoy a D&D-like settings and mechanics. Thanks for the video Professor Dungeon Master!
I'd say Hyperborea is the best of that lot. It's a fantastic, evocative, thrilling game. DCC is probably second. It's just a bit goofy in places for me.
If you want to tone down the gonzo of DCC a bit, use The Lankhmar boxed set rules to tone down spell corruption. I have used these rules for settings that don’t involve Lankhmar / Newton - makes a difference for sure.
If Conan was asked today what is best in life, I'm sure he would say "Hyporborea rpg is best in life with its 26 advanced combat actions, 24 awesome classes and AD&D like mechanics. I can even specialize in the broad sword like 2e!"
Great list PDM. I've been following Shadowdark with great interest since I head about it a few months ago, and I'm happy to see it on the list. I was also amused you only put your own game at the #9 slot. Modest! There is one game I feel you missed, which is very close to Shadowdark in design philosophy (Old School feel, updated mechanics). That game is Kevin Crawford's Worlds Without Number. I've been playing a long, long time and few games have impressed me like WWN. And you want to talk charts, my god the game is a masterclass in being able to quickly roll up anything from an encounter or monster to a kingdom or world. And the advice section is as good or better than anything in Index Card RPG. Honestly, if you haven't checked it out let me know and I will literally send you a copy. It should be handed out like Gideon Bibles. Thanks for the vid PDM.
@@DM_Curtis To be honest, I had completely forgotten you could get the complete game for free (minus a little bit of bonus material). Good thinking! But that being said, my offer still stands if PDM wants a copy. Plus I feel like supporting Kevin Crawford when I can.
Great list! 😎 However, in my twilight years, when my time is at a premium and my eyesight diminishing, I don't want to spend a long time learning a complicated D&D-esque clone with its steep learning-curve, but tend toward much simpler rulesets that either hearken back to the Dawn Days of (Chainmail-powered) OD&D era (e.g. Meadows & Megaliths), or something developed from early-80s gamebooks (such as Advanced Fighting Fantasy, second edition).
Yes! C&C! It is good to see you enjoy making a video about things you love, rather than having to get stuck in the mire of WotC world stuff. I would love to see you do a deep dive review of Castles & Crusades. I bought the printing with the old school homage covers. Every time I grab one of them, I get the old school joy I did from buying AD&D in 1980 (started with the basic box set) when I was twelve and beginning my life as a (very happy) forever DM.
Love C&C. The only reason I’m not doing a deep dive is because the game is well-established & older. I typically review newer stuff. Also, if you played AD&D-you know C&C. But it’s a great game.
you are a hero for not bending the knee to Wizard and may all table top content creators aspire to be like you i learned a lot from you on how to be a DM and you are inspirational to us all.
Adventures Dark & Deep is my default D&D anymore . Recently I've been really getting into Swords & Wizardry. A great rules set based on the original game with a few tweaks here and there.
I've been thinking about it. I have so many ttrpg's:) Matt Finch really loves the hobby. I probably will. I did back his tome of adventure design . Which is a fantastic book! If you don't have it. I highly recommend! You can get at Mythmere games.
Here’s my own list in no particular order. I like various game core mechanics in addition to the classics from AD&D and later D&D editions. 1. Barbarians of Lemuria 2. Cyberpunk 2020 (CP Red also) 3. Dungeon World - Powered by the Apocalypse (PbtA) systems are fun. I love how the “fiction” affects the gameplay instead of just “crunch.” 4. EZD6 - Beautiful simplicity! 5. FATE Accelerated - Approaches are a fun mechanic. 6. Five Torches Deep - A fun, functional simplification of 5E. 7. Index Card RPG - “Strength, Honor, and Beer!” - Hankerin Ferinale 8. Mörk Borg - I play it less “rotten” than RAW, but it’s fast, thematic, and fun. 9. Simple World - The best, free, simple DIY PbtA system I’ve played. 10. The Sprawl - I think this is the best PbtA system I’ve encountered. I love Cyberpunk as a genre. This system also makes a good rules replacement for Shadowrun if you combine a homebrew magic system with its lore. ‘Nuff said!
That staying with THACO thing is hilarious! Also, I was glad to see my own personal favorite on your list: Knave. I play Knave with people who are new to dnd because it is so easy for them (and for me ha ha), and it is fun to GM because designing environments with surreal loot and brief, digestable bits of lore is basically like moving over half of character creation into the actual game process. The weird stuff characters find and the secret information they learn is what makes each character unique, and it is fun to be able to design all of those fun options and then see what the players do with them. Obviously you can do that with any game, but the sparseness of Knave makes the in-game freakiness shine all the more. I guess it is my absolute favorite, although I have love for all the others on your list and am excited about Shadowdark!!! (btw, long time watcher, first time commenter, ha ha)
I've been actively making a list of TTRPGs to try out that aren't D&D ever since the OGL debacle began, and over half of these are ones I've never heard of before and am very interested in trying! Thank you for this list!
Great list. A few I definitely want to try in the future. I'm looking forward to Shadow of the Demonlord after I finish our current D&D campaign this year.
"castles and crusades is the greatest hits of D&D" You're not wrong there. C&C is a solid system, easy to understand and use, flexible in play, I'd go so far as to say it's unbreakable regarding house ruling. I've been running it exclusively as my TTFRPG for nearly three years and consider it my go-to game. Love it! 🤘
Basic Fantasy should get at least an honorable mention. It may not be super polished or have a plethora of random tables, but it's simple, straightforward, and really cheap. It's a few bucks as print-on-demand, or free to download the PDFs.
I think it's perfect for starting out and learning ttrpg mechanics. I'm using it to play a different game than the traditional board games with my kids, 3, 6, and 10. They love looking up images of monsters, rolling different color and shape dice, moving minis around the battlemat, and doodling on the battlemat. Also, reinforces math and reading as both the 6 and 10 year old DM'd a session just by their imagination.
Doesn't anyone know that the games Palladium or Rifts exist. Great RPGs that get lost in the background as if they are the rug in the room, you know it's there but still goes unseen and gets walked over.
When I first grabbed Knave I spent a whole evening using the charts to roll up random characters and then turned around and drew character illustrations for each. It was a lot of fun just seeing what kind of characters I would get. Oh, and Deathbringer wore it better. Not going to argue with a guy who can pull of a sweat band in full plate.
This is a great list! Definitely a couple of new ones but it looks like I have the key ones already. OSE and DCC are sitting on my shelf waiting to be played, I'm anxiously awaiting the PM to open for Shadowdark, and most of the others I have in digital form on my computer. Great to hear that you like these games and why you like them! UPDATE: Just got the email that the Shadowdark PM is opening up officially on Monday with the smoke test hitting on Friday.
Hey professor dungeon master!! Thanks for another great video 😁 i recently bought my copy of EZD6 thanks to your video about hitpoint replacement. I wqs hoping to be honest that you would mention it around this video as well. But it's okay. Still had a list of great games that i didn't knew existed. As a biased viewer I hope you cover some more EZD6 in the future 😅heh but anyway. Keep up the awesome work and greetings to you and DB from Athens Greece 🤘🏻🗡️
For me the top 3 to actually play and run would be: 1. Dungeon Crawl Classics 2. Old-School Essentials 3. Mork Borg For toolkit and GM advice and: 1. Index Card RPG 2. Knave 3. Black Hack Some that aren't D20 based: 1. Ironsworn (PbtA-like, great for solo or co-op play but still good for smaller groups. The tables alone are worth looking at, plus the pdf is free!) 2. Forbidden Lands (Hex-crawling at it's best, with a great grim-dark world) 3. Mythras (D100 based like Call of Cthulhu and plenty of supplemental material for different settings.) and a special addition that got me back into tabletop rpgs and is a great entry point with a low price point: Basic Fantasy RPG
I recently bought FTD on your recommendation and I was impressed. Blending the old school and the new school looks really interesting and I'm hoping to run some of the classics using FTD's framework. I started with 3rd edition so I think this will be a great way to get the OG experience with slicker game mechanics.
Great list! WoC, I’m dropping all their products. Going with other games of which there are many. I’m thinking about picking up GURPS again and also some of the OSR stuff you mentioned
Another early game, Tunnels and Trolls, it out of print I believe. There's a bunch of FRPGs that came out in the 70's and 80's that were similar to D&D with multiple stats and the same theme, but used different mechanics: Palladium RPG, Rolemaster, High Fantasy, Rhand: Morning Star Missions, Fantasy Wargaming, and Fantasy Hero. This list is not exhaustive. I'm sure you have your own editions. Like other commenters below, I'd love to see an article about your favourite "other" types of RPGs.
A great list! I would also include OSRIC which is the AD&D equivalent of OSE I know it doesn't meet the criteria that you described (mainly because of ability score array) but Shadow of the Demon Lord is even better than some of the games on this list 😈
I strongly recommend RuneQuest (by Chaosium) which uses the world of Glorantha and its cousin game "Mythras" (by The Design Mechanism) which doesn't use Glorantha. I've been playing/DMing RuneQuest since the late 70s. Both use the same character attributes (Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, Intelligence, Power [in place of Wisdom], and Charisma). Both also use a D100 skill-based game engine with no character levels. Any character can learn any skill and skills are improved through both training and using them, making the rules much more intuitive and less complex than D&D. Armor actually absorbs damage and can itself be damaged. Worlds can either be magic heavy or magic light. And Mythras provides a basic rules set that is free (Mythras Imperative) to download.
Ok, you missed The Palladium Fantasy Role Playing Game. This game was one of the apexes of Keven Sembieda’s volatile career (and yes, I know I didn’t spell the name right, don’t @ me). PFRPG had a great and innovative system, an intriguing world with a lot of lore, and many many books worth of monsters and assorted enemies.
I know this was a tough list prof, but I think you missed a big one with worlds without number by Crawford. Excellent DM section with dozens of tables and tools for world building, faction system, similarities to BX.
Your list was good but I would also mention Chivalry and Sorcery (if you like the crunch) as well as Low Fantasy Gaming (if you want something with a mid level rule set).
Cannot argue with this list, even if I would have wanted to (though I haven't sampled C&C, but I'll take your word for it, what with the doctorate and all); esp. the honorable mention for Five Torches, which does a nice job I think at that intersection. I think this road has some other forks in it that might make for good, future treatment. Perhaps a short jaunt into Gonzo-land with UVG, Troika, Into the Odd/Bastionland and the upcoming Yoon-Suin reevisioning. I always think that Gonzo gets a short shrift, not that this list doesn't give it spotlight. Thanks for the good list and great work.
There's a french RPG that I use and love. Unfortunately it doesnt have an english translation. Chroniques Oubliées Fantasy A very easy game system and toolbox loosely based on 3.5 with lots of cool features for the character classes that replaces the feats. I run it the old school way and it merges very well with the modern type mechanics like Luck points and cool classes capacities. I highly recommend! (If you can read french ;) )
Knave on 10? More like number 1!! I actually had the pure joy to FINALLY start a campaign with my children and their friends (after ages of prep work). It was a LOT of fun to play. Super simple, it was great! They enjoyed it greatly! Unto the next adventure!! Shadowdark though, has GORGEOUS art! The perfect old school feel that I crave. But Knave is just so easy to play.
I played with a system that used 8 prime stats. one was voice, the other personal appearance. for us charisma was your leadership or command stat and if they were high enough VO. gave you +'s to your Cha. and to being a bard, while Pa. also aided your Cha. It worked for us. My first D&D gameplay was in 1976 with the three little books. Old school RULES!!!!!!!!!!!
Please make another video for game genres. White wolf's Vampire-Masquerade (Mage: Ascention was my favourite) were the wizards of Role Play. Or how about grim-realism from RuneQuest, who can top their damage-to-each-spot-of-armour-and-body? And how about GURPS for the genre of 'play anything... anywhere... anytime... any genre'? This was an amazing 'D&D-esque Top Ten'... so do more! More! Keep it up! And i will... um... keep watching... right? Is that all i have to do here?
@@DUNGEONCRAFT1 With advice for running sandboxes and a living world. That would have made it a unique addition to the list. I also find the decision to promote James Raggi's work to be an unfortunate black spot on this list.
It blows my mind how this list essentially mirrored my journey of trying to find the perfect TTRPG, and ultimately landed on Shadowdark. Shadowdark, for me hits that perfect balance of OSE meets modern mechanics. It's my dream mashup of ICRPG and DCC in one convenient book. Great list !
I'm looking forward to see the list. For me I've been active in Pathfinder 2e via Pathfinder Society since I don't have local D&D friends (our 8 yr 3.5E campaign died out during Covid), so I can drive an hour to local lodge or find VTT online games. Even though I don't have local group I may need to buy dearhbringer rules just to chip in for your awesome content.
Great video! I alway imagined Dungeons & Dragons is like “the crust of the pizza” - every “other” RPG is just topping- some players even like pineapple 🍍
Great choices! Unfortunately, I already own each of them. I respectfully challenge Professor DM to come up with a list of lesser known D&D-derived fantasy RPGs! Here's a few to consider: Fantastic Heroes & Witchery, Spellcraft & Swordplay, Old Swords Reign.
I loved this video as I am a fan of OSR games as I learned on AD&D 1st edition. I look forward to trying out some of these suggestions. So far I have tried White Box and Basic Fantasy. I am a huge fan of Basic Fantasy and currently using it for my Solo Games. I also DM a Pathfinder 1st edition game and find it so rules heavy and slow. But I cannot convince the players to try an OSR game. They love their skills and feats and combat rules. Oh well. I am so happy to have found your channel, the content speaks to my heart.
‘Anyone can jam a table leg in someone’s eye’…first example. Spoken like a true New Yorker. I’m partial to Beyond the Wall and its Sword and Sorcery cousin Through Sunken Lands. These have the most evocative character creation I have seen.
Great video once more Prof! Was wondering if you ever came across the term "Free Kriegspiel Révolution", Questing Beast made a video about it. Would love to hear your take on this style of play/gaming/system.
Great video. This is one of those generic top ten videos that I love to watch because I think more of the excellent products in our hobby should be mentioned and discussed. My own top three (not counting the Rules Cyclopedia since no D&D allowed) is Old School Essentials (the Boccob's Blessed Book of RPGs), Dungeon Crawl Classics (crazy rules and dice, awesome modules and artwork), and Castles & Crusades (best game ever, happiest my players have ever been with any product). I would really love to play Index Card RPG and Hyperborea. Those are on my list. I have Index Card RPG, and I will get around to Hyperborea. Knave also looks interesting. Ben Milton makes excellent, thoughtful content. For Moldvay/Cook B/X, I was actually able to use the Driver Thru RPG pdf and make 2 print copies of each book for about the cost of the OSE Rules Tome (combined with the cost of the pdfs), so it can be done. Having done that, there is something to be said for the presentation, organization, and quality of the OSE books.
Hey Professor, have you ever seen/tried/heard the TTRPG "Conan: Adventures in an Age Undreamed Of" by a game company called Modiphius? It was Kickstarted a few years back, and unfortunately Modiphius just lost the Conan license around the start of 2023. But it was written in consultation with R.E.. Howard scholars to be pure Howard where there was such material from his pen, and anything the game designers cooked up from scratch was reviewed for theme and tonal consistency therewith. Definitely worth a look since you seem to be a Conan fan.
Great list Prof DM. I own and enjoy a number of these including your own Deathbringer. Even though these go without saying, IMO if your title "like D&D" is actually referring to 5e then including some big tome books with Crunch systems would also include Pathfinder 2e. (Your OSR games are great, although more in the vein of modernized Old School D&D versions.) Meanwhile, Pathfinder 2e is similar enough to D&D yet different enough that it deserves another look. (IMO PF fixes a number of 5e's problems. Plus it has so much free online.) Also, worth a look is Savage Worlds Fantasy and/or Savage Worlds Pathfinder.
I've gotten Deathbringer, Knave, IDC (the free starter version) and FTD but I haven't actually played them yet. We've been busy with Runecairn Wardensaga and Ironsworn (cooperative) and having a pretty good time.
Professor, dungeon, master, this episode was one of your best. Thank you. It was loaded with great information. BTW Someone commented below, and I fully agree, strength, intelligence, wisdom, dexterity, constitution, charisma are hallmarks of the OSR. Thanks again, and keep up the good work.
D&D was always overly complicated. The best RPG rules I ever saw were the James Bond rules. Very simple, with percentages. My friends and I started out adopting them, but ended up throwing out every rule and letting the GM give percentages of success based on the context. It's even simpler, and no one wastes any time looking for that special paragraph in the compendium, edition 2, to see if the clerk can spread his toast with a butter knife...
2:15 knave
3:16 deathbringer
4:24 the black hack
5:04 index card rpg
5:57 hyperborea
7:12 lamentations of the flame princess
8:05 dungeon crawl classics
9:20 castles & crusades
11:07 oldschool essentials
12:25 five torches deep
12:45 shadowdark
That's cheating. But I'll allow it.
ugh, not more shadowdark... to me it feels like just black hack with a gimmick and i don't get what people see in it
Missed Brightsword by DGS Games
@@ichisichify 100% agree. Worlds Without Number in my opinion is better. Well, it's not "like D&D" but still good.
@@ichisichify Shadowdark is what 6e should be. Black Hack can't fill those shoes. Black Hack is so lean that it feels cheap. And it's too divergent from what it claims to clone. So it doesn't appeal to a large audience the way Shadowdark does. And the art sucks while Shadowdark's art is wicked.
I noticed the order in which you named the D&D character attributes: Strength, Intelligence, Wisdom, Dexterity, Constitution, and Charisma. Old school, baby.
That's how I remember them.
Con before dex is even more old school
Principia Apocrypha
@@russellharrell2747 That sent me scrambling back to my White Box, and you’re right! I guess I got caught up in the newfangled Advanced Dungeons and Dragons and forgot my roots. 😄
Yup. Warms my heart.
Great list, Professor. I wish you had given an honourable mention to Basic Fantasy Roleplay, because it was the first OSR attempt. Also, Gonnerman has done us the curtesy of giving the pdfs away for free and selling the books at cost. I don't think it's a top-ten-pick, but it's great for someone who doesn't have the money to buy any books, and it fits your criteria. Even so, you've put up a great list.
Basic Fantasy is good, for sure.
OSRIC was the first OSR attempt, actually. If we are using the more recent revisionist usage of OSR to mean just B/X clones then BFRP is the first one, though.
I’m glad you beat me to it. Elric, Stormbringer, and Rune Quest all dark rpg classics. Not to mention CoC and ElfQuest (because why not).
@@shinankoku2 Basic Fantasy Roleplay (BFR) was the first B/X dnd retroclone. You are thinking of Basic Role-playing (BRP) which is derived from Runequest and served as the basis for Call of Cthulu.
Could you review it please?
Glad to see the call out to Castles & Crusades! Been running this system for over 10 years, and its my fantasy go-to.
Worlds Without Number (WWN) by Kevin Crawford, add Stars WN and you have it covered. Now I noticed the Professor's list favors simple and streamlined games, which is awesome, I'm not sure WWN falls into that category though(really it doesn't). However, for me, it is the perfect system to inspire you(and help you) to create and find new takes on our favorite genre. Like the AD&D DMG with all of it's flaws, it was the most inspirational resource of it's time. WWN is that for the modern D&D clone era. IMHO.
I’d like to see the professor’s take on WWN both as a system and as a DM resource. Where ICRPG provides a masterclass to DM’s on engaging encounter design, WWN does the same for creating and running a sandbox.
@@MrBrauk I'm sorry, can I ask what is ICRPG?
@@kogorun Index Card RPG
10. Knave
9. Deathbringer
8. The Black Hack
7. Index Card RPG
6. Astonishing Swordsmen & Sorcerers of Hyperborea
5. Lamentations of the Flame Princess
4. Dungeon Crawl Classics
3. Castles & Crusades
2. Old School Essentials
1. Shadowdark
HM: Five Torches Deep
The Open D&D philosophy changed the way I play fantasy TTRPGs completely, and I can say for sure that my fellow-players and I have more fun playing those games today than the official versions of D&D itself - which is still great, don't get me wrong, there's a lot of great things to learn about it - for instance, the amazing advantage/disadvantage mechanics of 5E, which Prof. DM employed masterfully in his "Deathbringer" RPG.
I'd like to see your list of games which aren't derived from some version of D&D.
Writing that one now. It will be tough.
@@DUNGEONCRAFT1 - Excellent! I can understand the difficulty, there being so many available.
@@DUNGEONCRAFT1
If Villains & Vigilantes doesn't make the list, I'll be...irritated. 🦡
However, that's my natural state so it's all good! 😂
It is amazing how the popularity of OSR basics accelerated into the bare bones of the Mörk Borg simplicity. I'm surprised more love isn't being heaped upon Star Frontiers (a true standout), Top Secret (original version, not that SI abomination), a host of stuff from FGU (NOT Space Opera), Mayfair's Chill and Tunnels & Trolls to name a few.
@@DUNGEONCRAFT1
Warhammer Fantasy
Dread
Call of Cthulhu
Mothership
?
Whitehack.
I think all of the material made by Kevin Crawford of Sine Nomine Publishing. Scarlet Heroes, Silent Legions, Stars Without Number, Worlds Without Number, Godbound and soon Cities Without Number.
So glad Kelsey over at The Arcane Library is getting her flowers from the community right now. As you pointed out, her writing style is spot on for what you need to run without getting too verbose.
I'm not surprised Five Torches Deep got relegated to an honorable mention because Shadowdark pretty much does what Five Torches Deep tries to do, but does it in better and more polished ways in every aspect. I can't wait for my full version to arrive.
I am looking forward to it
I don't know why people like Shadowdark. I've looked at it and there's nothing there. Just a bunch of rules seen in every other OSR publication and tables that you can find for free on the net. It's just hype.
@@ratatatuff If you are already into OSR, then you are right, Shadowdark is nothing special. As you said, it is stuff that we've seen elsewhere, and it doesn't have the kind of flavor that rules like Mörk Borg or Troika offer.
But for getting people who've never strayed outside of 5e to try OSR, it is AMAZING. Shadowdark has taken all those OSR elements, and wrapped them in an easy-to-digest package that is 5e-adjacent enough to not feel alien to those players. I'm running two Shadowdark tables with 5e-centric players, and they can't get enough of it. I myself am stunned how much these 5e players are loving Shadowdark. Clearly the ruleset is doing its job very well.
Shadowdark is not the be-all end-all OSR ruleset. It's the gateway ruleset to turn more people into OSR devotees (or at least get them to look outside 5e), and I can attest to its effectiveness.
I can, along with Prof. DM, highly recommend OSE, especially for those, like me, who were out of the hobby for a few decades. One great feature of OSE are the rules for Retainers: player characters can hire and employ retainers in adventures (within limits!). This was especially useful when, for a few months, my D&D group was down to just two players and myself: I had the players hire retainers and, presto!, it was as if we had doubled the number of players. This feature worked really well (as DM, I played the retainers, but my players did all their rolls); best of all, my players loved it.
II very much enjoy Lion & Dragon RPG and the campaign Dark Albion for the game, which takes D&D into a low fantasy medieval England setting. It has more of a Game of Thrones feeling than a Lord of the Rings high-fantasy aspect. The details, research, and information are amazing. Probably my favorite itteration of an OSR D&D type game.
I’m a proud owner of Lion & Dragon and am looking forward to running it some day in the not-too-distant future.
The random level-up improvement appears in Lion & Dragon as well.
Great video Professor. I have played most of those games. BX is what I started with back in the early 80’s and is probably still is my go to, but I also enjoy running Basic Fantasy and White Box Medieval
Cheers from Canada
Bob
Cheers!
2:15 - Knave
3:16 - Deathbringer
4:24 - The black hack
5:04 - Index card rpg
5:57 - Hyperborea
7:12 - Lamentations of the flame princess
8:05 - Dungeon crawl classics
9:20 - Castles & crusades
11:07 - Oldschool essentials
12:25 - Five torches deep
12:45 - Shadowdark
Getting ready to run a DCC game for the first time and I'm getting psyched for it!
Me too! Next week going at Sailors on the Starless Sea. Have fun with your game!
Tell your buddies to run their characters like a stolen car full of meth. They'll have a blast.
I would love to roll a d14!
@@texpine I couldn't get my hands on those funky dice. Gotta try to mail order from some place..
Easily my favorite.
Would love to see you cover GURPS in the future. It brought my friends and I into the fold back in the nerdy 90’s
Need to follow this up with a video on games that aren't like D&D.
Will do!
I'll be honest, the only one of these that is for me is Castles & Crusades, but it's a great list nonetheless.
I'd like to give a shout-out to Flatland Games and their somewhat loosely _OD&D/BD&D_-based games _Beyond the Wall_ and _Through Sunken Lands_ for adventures with a Prydain/Earthsea feel or a Conan/Elric feel, respectively. You can just roll characters the classic way, but the standard creation method uses playbooks with major life event tables until the start of the campaign, which really help with well-rounded character backstories. Particularly in _BtW,_ in which all the player characters grew up together in (or near) a single village (co-created during session zero) and are now tasked to save it from an emerging threat in a folkloric coming-of-age adventure (or tragically die trying), presumably at about sixteen years of age, as that has explicitly been the minimum human starting age in all edition of _Dungeons & Dragons_ (and _Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay_ among others) so far, but they oddly don't specify beyond "youth". Player characters in _TSL,_ on the other hand, are supposed to have at least some experience and thus likely age under their belt. And for beer and pretzels dungeon-crawl one-shots, their _Grizzled Adventurers_ is a solid choice, although for that type of game I prefer Dungeonslayers (with the alternative magic system), which is OSR in spirit, but barely resembles D&D mechanically beyond using a d20.
Great list and I'm happy to see Castles & Crusades so high on the list. One thing I really like about C&C is that I can run any adventure for any edition of D&D (expect maybe 4E) and any other OSR system and do the conversion during the game. Their claim as the Rosetta Stone of D&D is very true. Classes are easy to convert over as well, and the Codex line of books...the perfect blend of history and myth to bring to the table.
I enjoyed this video! For another honorable mention, or at least an OSR nod, the Basic Fantasy RPG 3rd Edition. It was the first OSR RPG out the gate with OSRIC right on its heals. It's essentially B/X D&D with separate race and class and ascending AC. And it has a fantastic community of fan-made products.
Another mention for me would to 5E Hardcore Mode, but I guess it's probably too tied to 5e for playing it to be it's own separate mention.
FWIW, of those on the list, I so far own Shadowdark, Five Torches Deep, Hyperborea, and Lamentations of the Flame Princess.
Fun vid!
I’m a bit surprised to not see Basic Fantasy RPG on here. I’d recommend having a look if you haven’t already-I’d describe it as “Old School Essentials except the presentation isn’t as nice but the organization and clarity are way better. Also it’s free.”
Thank you Professor for this video. So many great games out there!
I love that you paid attention to the actual binding of the books and the ribbons included. I might have to seek out Castles and Crusades by Troll Lord. Thanks, Prof!
I recommend the 8th printing of C&C. They don't do editions, just printings. They just add or change things for the better. IMHO, the best monk and ranger ever! They're all good, but those I feel are never done right by others. Also, the 8th printing C&C players handbook will take the classes all way to 24th level if you get there.
@@dustanmcarthur6658 Thanks, Dude! How do you rate C&C versus Shadowdark?
Shadowdark would be more Molvey B/X or BECMIi. Where C&C more Gygax AD&D. I've read the quick start rules for Shadowdark. Give me about week or so with the Pdf lol
I'm looking forward to Shadowdark. However, if I how to pick one. I'd go with Castles and Crusades.
All in all a good selection of games! I would like to add Basic Fantasy Role Playing Game to the mix, however. Old school goodness with a vibrant community and at a reasonable price too!
I've been tempted to play a few of these. I just recently got Dungeon World. I know you've reviewed it before, and that review was one of the reasons I got it. It's fantastic! If West End Games Star Wars is the most movie-like Star Wars game experience, then Dungeon World is the most movie-like D&D experience. It's fast, flexible, and a joy to run.
Good list, shame Basic Fantasy RPG was not here considering how much more accessible it is for anybody to try, it's free as a pdf and the physical book is a literal few dollars. The system is great too.
Basic Fantasy is a very good game.
I missed Whitehack, a simple roll under d20 system where the character skills and relationships and race are described by their "groups" associated to their six ability scores, which grants advantage ("double positive" in the game's terms) to the roll. The three beginning classes are very flexible:
- The Strong chooses a combat feat from a list every level;
- The Deft can use his groups with any abilities and gain "attunements" to exert special feats of skill; and
- The Wise, uses phrases written by the player to cast "miracles".
I specially like the magic system, used by the Wise class. They can use their miracle phrases to do anything that would make sense, but difficult and powerful miracles may be charged with higher HP costs, like 2d6+1, which can be reduced by consuming ingredients or increasing the cast time, at the GM's discretion.
What happen to Basic Fantasy? I love that game. Price alone is worth it.
I'm currently running an AD&D/Shadowdark family game. I have four decades of D&D material that can be converted to Shadowdark by recalculating AC. XP is much easier to calculate and leveling up is quick and easy. It's a great introduction to fantasy role playing games. The Fam are just pulling into a village called Orlane near the Dim Forrest with a wagon full of loot from the Caverns of Chaos. The sun is setting and storm clouds gather. Where to stay for the night, The Golden Grain or The Slumbering Serpent? This pairs well with "Goodnight Moon," by Shivaree.
DungeonWorld changed my life. It's not something that Dungeon Craft would like I'm guessing, but DungeonWorld most closely emulates epic, movie-like adventure and combat and fast-paced action.
Actually, I gave Dungeon World a very positive review. Check it out: th-cam.com/video/NoxHumxMTp0/w-d-xo.html
Same for me, Dungeon World changed my gaming life also to me and my different groups of players.
I second the request for a review of Worlds without Number by Kevin Crawford. Questing Beast thought highly enough of it to give two videos, and after reading it myself, I am constantly surprised by how little it is mentioned.
I agree and am really looking forward to receiving my copy of Shadowdark! Been playing D&D since 1982 and think this will fresh things up quite well. Grimdark rules! Thanx for your great videos, all the best from Germany
The only edition of D&D I played when I just began with TTRPG's was 3.5. I don't know yet if I don't like the 3.5 system or was just the master that made me hate it, but I grew with resentment with D&D. Time after, I gave a chance to 5e as a player and I like it way more. So I thought to myself that maybe I finally can start to DM'ing the world's most famous roleplaying game and have a good time doing it. But as I was learning more and more about 5e, something didn't end up hooking me, so I gave up untill I began to know some Retroclones.
At last, Castles & Crusades hooked me up and now I really start to enjoy a D&D-like settings and mechanics.
Thanks for the video Professor Dungeon Master!
Literally thousands of pages of rules is quite an entry tax for new DMs or even players. This is why D&D and PF must be left behind.
I think I have 3 or 4 of these on my shelves. Solid recos from the man who knows RPG and D&D.
I'd say Hyperborea is the best of that lot. It's a fantastic, evocative, thrilling game. DCC is probably second. It's just a bit goofy in places for me.
If you want to tone down the gonzo of DCC a bit, use The Lankhmar boxed set rules to tone down spell corruption. I have used these rules for settings that don’t involve Lankhmar / Newton - makes a difference for sure.
Hypeborea quality and attention to details is unsurpassed. Even better that OSE.
If Conan was asked today what is best in life, I'm sure he would say "Hyporborea rpg is best in life with its 26 advanced combat actions, 24 awesome classes and AD&D like mechanics. I can even specialize in the broad sword like 2e!"
Hyperborea isn’t “goofy”?
The only channel I set my alarm for.
Very kind. Thanks.
Great list PDM. I've been following Shadowdark with great interest since I head about it a few months ago, and I'm happy to see it on the list. I was also amused you only put your own game at the #9 slot. Modest! There is one game I feel you missed, which is very close to Shadowdark in design philosophy (Old School feel, updated mechanics). That game is Kevin Crawford's Worlds Without Number. I've been playing a long, long time and few games have impressed me like WWN. And you want to talk charts, my god the game is a masterclass in being able to quickly roll up anything from an encounter or monster to a kingdom or world. And the advice section is as good or better than anything in Index Card RPG. Honestly, if you haven't checked it out let me know and I will literally send you a copy. It should be handed out like Gideon Bibles. Thanks for the vid PDM.
Also, WWN is free!
@@DM_Curtis To be honest, I had completely forgotten you could get the complete game for free (minus a little bit of bonus material). Good thinking! But that being said, my offer still stands if PDM wants a copy. Plus I feel like supporting Kevin Crawford when I can.
@@samdoorley6101 Absolutely!
Great list! 😎
However, in my twilight years, when my time is at a premium and my eyesight diminishing, I don't want to spend a long time learning a complicated D&D-esque clone with its steep learning-curve, but tend toward much simpler rulesets that either hearken back to the Dawn Days of (Chainmail-powered) OD&D era (e.g. Meadows & Megaliths), or something developed from early-80s gamebooks (such as Advanced Fighting Fantasy, second edition).
Knave for instance is much simpler than those games.
😎Love the new intro tagline, Professor! 😎
Yes! C&C!
It is good to see you enjoy making a video about things you love, rather than having to get stuck in the mire of WotC world stuff.
I would love to see you do a deep dive review of Castles & Crusades. I bought the printing with the old school homage covers. Every time I grab one of them, I get the old school joy I did from buying AD&D in 1980 (started with the basic box set) when I was twelve and beginning my life as a (very happy) forever DM.
Love C&C. The only reason I’m not doing a deep dive is because the game is well-established & older. I typically review newer stuff. Also, if you played AD&D-you know C&C. But it’s a great game.
@@DUNGEONCRAFT1 No worries. Your comment here was a nice, succinct review of it. Hehe.
you are a hero for not bending the knee to Wizard and may all table top content creators aspire to be like you i learned a lot from you on how to be a DM and you are inspirational to us all.
Adventures Dark & Deep is my default D&D anymore . Recently I've been really getting into Swords & Wizardry. A great rules set based on the original game with a few tweaks here and there.
Swords and wizardry revised Kickstarter on now!
@@dustanmcarthur6658 Backed and really looking forward to it.
I've been thinking about it. I have so many ttrpg's:) Matt Finch really loves the hobby. I probably will.
I did back his tome of adventure design . Which is a fantastic book! If you don't have it. I highly recommend! You can get at Mythmere games.
I feel your pain, I have more than I could ever play. I do have ToAD, excellent book
A D& Deep is also my main system these days. Currently running a Greyhawk campaign with this system.
Here’s my own list in no particular order. I like various game core mechanics in addition to the classics from AD&D and later D&D editions.
1. Barbarians of Lemuria
2. Cyberpunk 2020 (CP Red also)
3. Dungeon World - Powered by the Apocalypse (PbtA) systems are fun. I love how the “fiction” affects the gameplay instead of just “crunch.”
4. EZD6 - Beautiful simplicity!
5. FATE Accelerated - Approaches are a fun mechanic.
6. Five Torches Deep - A fun, functional simplification of 5E.
7. Index Card RPG - “Strength, Honor, and Beer!” - Hankerin Ferinale
8. Mörk Borg - I play it less “rotten” than RAW, but it’s fast, thematic, and fun.
9. Simple World - The best, free, simple DIY PbtA system I’ve played.
10. The Sprawl - I think this is the best PbtA system I’ve encountered. I love Cyberpunk as a genre. This system also makes a good rules replacement for Shadowrun if you combine a homebrew magic system with its lore.
‘Nuff said!
That staying with THACO thing is hilarious! Also, I was glad to see my own personal favorite on your list: Knave. I play Knave with people who are new to dnd because it is so easy for them (and for me ha ha), and it is fun to GM because designing environments with surreal loot and brief, digestable bits of lore is basically like moving over half of character creation into the actual game process. The weird stuff characters find and the secret information they learn is what makes each character unique, and it is fun to be able to design all of those fun options and then see what the players do with them. Obviously you can do that with any game, but the sparseness of Knave makes the in-game freakiness shine all the more. I guess it is my absolute favorite, although I have love for all the others on your list and am excited about Shadowdark!!! (btw, long time watcher, first time commenter, ha ha)
I've been actively making a list of TTRPGs to try out that aren't D&D ever since the OGL debacle began, and over half of these are ones I've never heard of before and am very interested in trying! Thank you for this list!
Great list. A few I definitely want to try in the future. I'm looking forward to Shadow of the Demonlord after I finish our current D&D campaign this year.
Glad to see Shadowdark as your number 1. Totally agree with you and in my humble opinion, it’s the most usable system I’ve read, period.
So well written. Brilliant.
"castles and crusades is the greatest hits of D&D"
You're not wrong there.
C&C is a solid system, easy to understand and use, flexible in play, I'd go so far as to say it's unbreakable regarding house ruling.
I've been running it exclusively as my TTFRPG for nearly three years and consider it my go-to game. Love it! 🤘
Basic Fantasy should get at least an honorable mention. It may not be super polished or have a plethora of random tables, but it's simple, straightforward, and really cheap. It's a few bucks as print-on-demand, or free to download the PDFs.
I think it's perfect for starting out and learning ttrpg mechanics. I'm using it to play a different game than the traditional board games with my kids, 3, 6, and 10. They love looking up images of monsters, rolling different color and shape dice, moving minis around the battlemat, and doodling on the battlemat. Also, reinforces math and reading as both the 6 and 10 year old DM'd a session just by their imagination.
Doesn't anyone know that the games Palladium or Rifts exist. Great RPGs that get lost in the background as if they are the rug in the room, you know it's there but still goes unseen and gets walked over.
Palladium fantasy and Rifts are both excellent games!
hear hear
When I first grabbed Knave I spent a whole evening using the charts to roll up random characters and then turned around and drew character illustrations for each. It was a lot of fun just seeing what kind of characters I would get.
Oh, and Deathbringer wore it better. Not going to argue with a guy who can pull of a sweat band in full plate.
This is a great list! Definitely a couple of new ones but it looks like I have the key ones already. OSE and DCC are sitting on my shelf waiting to be played, I'm anxiously awaiting the PM to open for Shadowdark, and most of the others I have in digital form on my computer. Great to hear that you like these games and why you like them!
UPDATE: Just got the email that the Shadowdark PM is opening up officially on Monday with the smoke test hitting on Friday.
Deathbringer wore it best, of course. I am just trying to work out how to convince my players to switch from OSE to Shadowdark when it drops.
Just do it!
Try a one-shot, maybe with some pre-generated characters (that you know they'll like). Then see what they think.
Tell them a girl wrote it
Lion and Dragon!, coke on authentic to medieval history mixed with fantasy and great solid rules to boot.
Hey professor dungeon master!! Thanks for another great video 😁 i recently bought my copy of EZD6 thanks to your video about hitpoint replacement. I wqs hoping to be honest that you would mention it around this video as well. But it's okay. Still had a list of great games that i didn't knew existed.
As a biased viewer I hope you cover some more EZD6 in the future 😅heh but anyway. Keep up the awesome work and greetings to you and DB from Athens Greece 🤘🏻🗡️
Hope you enjoy it! Will be playing EZD6 with Scotty this weekend. That'll be on another list.
For me the top 3 to actually play and run would be:
1. Dungeon Crawl Classics
2. Old-School Essentials
3. Mork Borg
For toolkit and GM advice and:
1. Index Card RPG
2. Knave
3. Black Hack
Some that aren't D20 based:
1. Ironsworn (PbtA-like, great for solo or co-op play but still good for smaller groups. The tables alone are worth looking at, plus the pdf is free!)
2. Forbidden Lands (Hex-crawling at it's best, with a great grim-dark world)
3. Mythras (D100 based like Call of Cthulhu and plenty of supplemental material for different settings.)
and a special addition that got me back into tabletop rpgs and is a great entry point with a low price point:
Basic Fantasy RPG
+1 for Mythras. There's not only d20 !
I recently bought FTD on your recommendation and I was impressed. Blending the old school and the new school looks really interesting and I'm hoping to run some of the classics using FTD's framework. I started with 3rd edition so I think this will be a great way to get the OG experience with slicker game mechanics.
Great list! WoC, I’m dropping all their products. Going with other games of which there are many. I’m thinking about picking up GURPS again and also some of the OSR stuff you mentioned
Great list! I would have to add OSRIC and Swords & Wizardry to my list, as well.
Good choices!
@@DUNGEONCRAFT1and Adventures Dark & Deep
Another early game, Tunnels and Trolls, it out of print I believe. There's a bunch of FRPGs that came out in the 70's and 80's that were similar to D&D with multiple stats and the same theme, but used different mechanics: Palladium RPG, Rolemaster, High Fantasy, Rhand: Morning Star Missions, Fantasy Wargaming, and Fantasy Hero. This list is not exhaustive. I'm sure you have your own editions. Like other commenters below, I'd love to see an article about your favourite "other" types of RPGs.
A great list! I would also include OSRIC which is the AD&D equivalent of OSE
I know it doesn't meet the criteria that you described (mainly because of ability score array) but Shadow of the Demon Lord is even better than some of the games on this list 😈
I strongly recommend RuneQuest (by Chaosium) which uses the world of Glorantha and its cousin game "Mythras" (by The Design Mechanism) which doesn't use Glorantha. I've been playing/DMing RuneQuest since the late 70s. Both use the same character attributes (Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, Intelligence, Power [in place of Wisdom], and Charisma). Both also use a D100 skill-based game engine with no character levels. Any character can learn any skill and skills are improved through both training and using them, making the rules much more intuitive and less complex than D&D. Armor actually absorbs damage and can itself be damaged. Worlds can either be magic heavy or magic light. And Mythras provides a basic rules set that is free (Mythras Imperative) to download.
Ok, you missed The Palladium Fantasy Role Playing Game. This game was one of the apexes of Keven Sembieda’s volatile career (and yes, I know I didn’t spell the name right, don’t @ me). PFRPG had a great and innovative system, an intriguing world with a lot of lore, and many many books worth of monsters and assorted enemies.
I know this was a tough list prof, but I think you missed a big one with worlds without number by Crawford. Excellent DM section with dozens of tables and tools for world building, faction system, similarities to BX.
My favorites are ICRPG and 5TD, but Shadowdark has my attention at the moment. Also a big fan of EZD6. Thanks for the recommendations.
EzD6 will be on a different list.
@@DUNGEONCRAFT1 Along with Maze Rats?
Your list was good but I would also mention Chivalry and Sorcery (if you like the crunch) as well as Low Fantasy Gaming (if you want something with a mid level rule set).
Cannot argue with this list, even if I would have wanted to (though I haven't sampled C&C, but I'll take your word for it, what with the doctorate and all); esp. the honorable mention for Five Torches, which does a nice job I think at that intersection. I think this road has some other forks in it that might make for good, future treatment. Perhaps a short jaunt into Gonzo-land with UVG, Troika, Into the Odd/Bastionland and the upcoming Yoon-Suin reevisioning. I always think that Gonzo gets a short shrift, not that this list doesn't give it spotlight. Thanks for the good list and great work.
Very nice vid. I would also suggest "Basic Fantasy" rpg, wich is a free pdf, very simple "entry level" rules, and available in various languages.👍🏻
My boyfriend got Hackmaster due to his annoyance with 5E DnD. The character creation is fun.
Great list! I was hoping to see some love for Basic Fantasy
Nice one, thanks for the content, always amazing! But looks like you missed Dry World on position 0!
+1 or Hyperborea! We are having a fantastic time playing it and all other games have been put aside. The adventure modules are just incredible.
My lawyer LOVES that game.
Awesome pivot to INDEPENDENT games.
Better for you; better for us.
There's a french RPG that I use and love. Unfortunately it doesnt have an english translation.
Chroniques Oubliées Fantasy
A very easy game system and toolbox loosely based on 3.5 with lots of cool features for the character classes that replaces the feats.
I run it the old school way and it merges very well with the modern type mechanics like Luck points and cool classes capacities.
I highly recommend! (If you can read french ;) )
Knave on 10? More like number 1!! I actually had the pure joy to FINALLY start a campaign with my children and their friends (after ages of prep work). It was a LOT of fun to play. Super simple, it was great! They enjoyed it greatly! Unto the next adventure!! Shadowdark though, has GORGEOUS art! The perfect old school feel that I crave. But Knave is just so easy to play.
Basic Fantasy RPG needed a mention. So good for so cheap!
I played with a system that used 8 prime stats. one was voice, the other personal appearance. for us charisma was your leadership or command stat and if they were high enough VO. gave you +'s to your Cha. and to being a bard, while Pa. also aided your Cha. It worked for us. My first D&D gameplay was in 1976 with the three little books. Old school RULES!!!!!!!!!!!
Please make another video for game genres. White wolf's Vampire-Masquerade (Mage: Ascention was my favourite) were the wizards of Role Play. Or how about grim-realism from RuneQuest, who can top their damage-to-each-spot-of-armour-and-body? And how about GURPS for the genre of 'play anything... anywhere... anytime... any genre'? This was an amazing 'D&D-esque Top Ten'... so do more! More! Keep it up! And i will... um... keep watching... right? Is that all i have to do here?
Will do. I'd have to include Vampire. It was super innovative and Mark Rein-Hagen is a fan of this channel.
There’s also Swords & Wizardry, a 0e retroclone. It’s also free in PDF, and OSRIC, the 1e retroclone. I’ve run both and they’re great.
The fact that Worlds Without Number didn't make this list is a travesty.
It's a good game.
@@DUNGEONCRAFT1 With advice for running sandboxes and a living world. That would have made it a unique addition to the list. I also find the decision to promote James Raggi's work to be an unfortunate black spot on this list.
Great list. Considering your glowing review of Dungeon World, I was surprised it didn’t make the cut.
I think Adventurer Conqueror King System by Autarch would be right up PDM's alley.
ACKS is practically the heir to AD&D with its focus on campaign play.
ACKS is really good but the authors are blacklisted unfortunately for such a good game.
It blows my mind how this list essentially mirrored my journey of trying to find the perfect TTRPG, and ultimately landed on Shadowdark. Shadowdark, for me hits that perfect balance of OSE meets modern mechanics. It's my dream mashup of ICRPG and DCC in one convenient book. Great list !
I'm looking forward to see the list. For me I've been active in Pathfinder 2e via Pathfinder Society since I don't have local D&D friends (our 8 yr 3.5E campaign died out during Covid), so I can drive an hour to local lodge or find VTT online games. Even though I don't have local group I may need to buy dearhbringer rules just to chip in for your awesome content.
Great video! I alway imagined Dungeons & Dragons is like “the crust of the pizza” - every “other” RPG is just topping- some players even like pineapple 🍍
Great choices! Unfortunately, I already own each of them. I respectfully challenge Professor DM to come up with a list of lesser known D&D-derived fantasy RPGs! Here's a few to consider: Fantastic Heroes & Witchery, Spellcraft & Swordplay, Old Swords Reign.
I loved this video as I am a fan of OSR games as I learned on AD&D 1st edition. I look forward to trying out some of these suggestions. So far I have tried White Box and Basic Fantasy. I am a huge fan of Basic Fantasy and currently using it for my Solo Games. I also DM a Pathfinder 1st edition game and find it so rules heavy and slow. But I cannot convince the players to try an OSR game. They love their skills and feats and combat rules. Oh well. I am so happy to have found your channel, the content speaks to my heart.
Dungeon crawl classics is a hit everytime it hits our table
It and Hyperborea are in their own class.
‘Anyone can jam a table leg in someone’s eye’…first example. Spoken like a true New Yorker. I’m partial to Beyond the Wall and its Sword and Sorcery cousin Through Sunken Lands. These have the most evocative character creation I have seen.
Great video once more Prof! Was wondering if you ever came across the term "Free Kriegspiel Révolution", Questing Beast made a video about it. Would love to hear your take on this style of play/gaming/system.
Great video. This is one of those generic top ten videos that I love to watch because I think more of the excellent products in our hobby should be mentioned and discussed.
My own top three (not counting the Rules Cyclopedia since no D&D allowed) is Old School Essentials (the Boccob's Blessed Book of RPGs), Dungeon Crawl Classics (crazy rules and dice, awesome modules and artwork), and Castles & Crusades (best game ever, happiest my players have ever been with any product). I would really love to play Index Card RPG and Hyperborea. Those are on my list. I have Index Card RPG, and I will get around to Hyperborea.
Knave also looks interesting. Ben Milton makes excellent, thoughtful content.
For Moldvay/Cook B/X, I was actually able to use the Driver Thru RPG pdf and make 2 print copies of each book for about the cost of the OSE Rules Tome (combined with the cost of the pdfs), so it can be done. Having done that, there is something to be said for the presentation, organization, and quality of the OSE books.
I’d have to give a mention to Basic Fantasy. What’s not to like about free?
Hey Professor, have you ever seen/tried/heard the TTRPG "Conan: Adventures in an Age Undreamed Of" by a game company called Modiphius? It was Kickstarted a few years back, and unfortunately Modiphius just lost the Conan license around the start of 2023. But it was written in consultation with R.E.. Howard scholars to be pure Howard where there was such material from his pen, and anything the game designers cooked up from scratch was reviewed for theme and tonal consistency therewith. Definitely worth a look since you seem to be a Conan fan.
i like the change on the introduction
Thanks.
Great list Prof DM. I own and enjoy a number of these including your own Deathbringer.
Even though these go without saying, IMO if your title "like D&D" is actually referring to 5e then including some big tome books with Crunch systems would also include Pathfinder 2e. (Your OSR games are great, although more in the vein of modernized Old School D&D versions.) Meanwhile, Pathfinder 2e is similar enough to D&D yet different enough that it deserves another look. (IMO PF fixes a number of 5e's problems. Plus it has so much free online.) Also, worth a look is Savage Worlds Fantasy and/or Savage Worlds Pathfinder.
I've gotten Deathbringer, Knave, IDC (the free starter version) and FTD but I haven't actually played them yet. We've been busy with Runecairn Wardensaga and Ironsworn (cooperative) and having a pretty good time.
Professor, dungeon, master, this episode was one of your best. Thank you. It was loaded with great information. BTW Someone commented below, and I fully agree, strength, intelligence, wisdom, dexterity, constitution, charisma are hallmarks of the OSR. Thanks again, and keep up the good work.
D&D was always overly complicated. The best RPG rules I ever saw were the James Bond rules. Very simple, with percentages.
My friends and I started out adopting them, but ended up throwing out every rule and letting the GM give percentages of success based on the context.
It's even simpler, and no one wastes any time looking for that special paragraph in the compendium, edition 2, to see if the clerk can spread his toast with a butter knife...
I would add, World's Without Number, Fantastic Heroes & Witchery and my special favourite Beyond the Wall (and it's sister game Through Sunken Lands).