My heart goes out to this one, I study soil biology fungi and composting & the beauty & intellect of these forests is astonishing. Mrs Susan Thank you so much for speaking for the trees & all life!
In the '60's our rural elementary school nurtured student's love of trees. Teachers took classes into the nearby woods to understand how a forest "works" and what's in it. The intentional curriculum, broad in scope and integrated into many lessons in every grade: we learned what grows in our area naturally, what they do, and provide--free of charge, mushrooms, herbaceous plants, animals, everything, how they are connected to us and, culminated in an arts and music program in which we planted native trees in a nearby field which later became a playground. As we sang, we planted and thanked the trees. The music teacher wheeled the piano out onto the patio! 🎼🎹🎹🎵🎵I think that I shall never see, a poem lovely as a tree. This event is indelible in my memory and heart. And dear folks is good caring education.
I would argue that the benign awareness that is exemplified by this comment, is the diametric opposite of what is actually happening now in the world of corporate forestry. It is merely a microcosm of the "big picture" in EVERY industry and all of human endeavor.
We are very inspired by this work and idea. That's why we building a research centre in South Africa to study this phenomena here. We protecting a tiny piece of what is left of the coastal riverine forest. The message has gone out all around the world.
Oh what a delightful, learning-filled conversation this morning. Nate, you always ask if we enjoyed (or) learned from these podcasts? I don’t have to choose, because I both learn and enjoy, all of them. Keep on doing your good work in the world, my friend…
Good evening Nate and Suzanne Beautiful. Truly needed this today. Still, after fifty years seeking my people so to speak. So fed up with the office, too. Again thank you for your sensemaking. 💜
I'm an environmental science student in BC and actually just watched Suzanne's Mother Tree TEDTalk in class (Biogeography) recently. So great to see her message being spread on this platform! Nate, you need to come visit some of BC's forests, UBC's Malcolm Knapp Research Forest is practically in my backyard and is one of the best places around Vancouver.
Thankyou. I have been in love (academically) with Suzanne Simard for many many years. She' s one of my heros. And I thoroughly enjoyed this interview.... some moments of real joy, some momens of real anger and frustration. I will pass this video on to my students (permaculture courses) here in Brasil. Thank you!!!!!
I’m a tree hugger,straight up. Started with some Mindanao Gum Trees north shore Maui in the ‘60s. I’ve hugged a lot diverse trees since. You can’t be of that persuasion and having been exposed to clear cuts BC or up the inside passage to Alaska where leave swaths of trees visible highway and boat..yeah ..mushrooms pushed me into new areas in NW U.S.. the ‘communication’ of natural forests..its devastating what ‘we’(logging) has done to the forests..Thank You,Nate,as depressing as it is,bringing on the Dr..we wonder how things got unbalanced..
I have hiked extensively in New England in forest protection areas. You can tell so much about history just by the mix of trees. Birches completely come in quickly to areas that have burned or been damaged by storms. It makes so much sense that the speaker says birches are almost like a natural band-aid.
Thank you for the content. And, thank you for the research. As mentioned here, this communication phenomenon underground can be found in lots of sources in the indigenous people in other parts of the world as well whilst not so scientifically rigorous. It's a really tragedy of intra-, inter-species ecocide since the colonization.
Thank you and I love Suzanne's work, our forest is not old growth, was built by men during the Great depression, still we allow this to grow without messing too much with it. Many want to remove our huge pine cheery trees but I suspect this is the mother tree of our forest. So we always said no. People have condemned this claiming we need the money, but to me the forest is far more important. Suzanne I believed helped prove this in in her evidence that by taking out that mother tree we hurt the forest.
Thank you, Nate. Though the pain of the ignorance and abuse we've been witnessing and experiencing is great, these discussions remain heart-nourishing beacons of sanity and grounded, creative and visionary thinking that bring forward real possibility for a better way of life. Something I now await and look forward to with great anticipation every week.
Awesome interview... I grow Shiitake fungi in the forest and I spread endomycorrhizal fungi for the lawn - one acre that I mow. The biophoton research has secrets in terms of noncommutativity. "sharing carbon molecules back and forth." Definitely a big discovery. Great to hear the value of Birch to other species.
Great guest! Followed her work for years and this did not disappoint! Glad to have her back on, although I'm skeptical about that topic. If you simply monetize nature and resources differently without changing the extraction and profit driven nature of capitalism (or even socialism and communism), you will still get corporations and wealthy elites using nature to their personal benefit.... Maybe that's not what she meant, but so much of this is the direct result of capitalist mentality, not just incorrect pricing. The obscene wealth these people already control means they will just use it differently to continue their narcissistic and even psychopathic pursuits of profit and power. We need to say NO to the entire idea that drives this economy. It can't just be limited to pricing things differently and expecting that to solve itself. Don't get me wrong, that's a bandaid that can help, but it's more of a temporary fix for the short term, and could end up biting us in the rear if we're not careful. Part of the solution has to be removing these people from power and having a system that prevents them from regaining it. Not an easy ask, i know
Thank you, Nate and Suzanne. This was especially inspiring for me today. I live in the States, but interestingly, tomorrow I'm traveling to BC to Enderby in the Okanagan region for The New Human Regeneration retreat. The people holding this event are partnering with the Secwépemc Nation/First Nation community, and they will be leading us through an indigenous healing ceremony.
I strongly agree, and have basically understood this for many years, I’ve been communicating with tree for a long time, trees get lonely when everything around them gets cleared etc etc, being positive about changing our current is important but by the time those in power wake up, it will probably be to late, to do anything about climate change, as the tipping point has likely already been reach, in my opinion, but hope is quintessentially what makes us human….peace!
Fascinating 💚💙question the plastic bags inthe experiments releases ethylene and methane in uv light. Is it accounted for in the experiments? Just love these podcasts thatvget questions firing inside. I see the red Thread between all podcasts and see how we can make the Global Revolution we need now more than ever. It's a collaboration between science and social society. Music unites humanity . Thanks Nate and Suzanne ❤
Wow! So glad to see Dr. Suzanne Simard interviewed on TGS! Thank you!! I live in Nova Scotia where, as in much of North America, there has been so much clear-cutting. Now the government is pushing HPF (HIgh Production Forests) -- monoculture conifers, sprayed herbicides, etc.. Will they never learn? 🌳🌲🌳
BTW, thanks also for discussing *biomass* and *biofuel*. What is happening right now and projected for the future is absolutely dreadful. The carbon accounting is so ridiculous -- cutting down forests with fossil fuel powered logging equipment, transporting trees to processing plants on diesel powered trucks, processing at plants that take a huge amount of energy, shipping wood chips or pellets across the oceans on fossil-fuel powered ships, and burning that wood, releasing huge amounts of carbon into the atmosphere. Who in their right mind can think this is a *good use* for forests? Anyhow, so glad this came up with your discussion. Also, the whole part about communities and grassroots level change. It has to happen, but the forest industry really tries hard to cut communities out of discussions. When they hold their *stakeholder* meeting, we, the communities, are not actually considered stakeholders. This is so wrong and it has to change. Anyhow, thanks again for this episode. I have shared it on the environmental groups I moderate on Facebook and hope that many will tune in.
Well, Nate, I love watching you get to the heart of the matter. My "aha" was Peter Wohlleben, "The Secret Life of Trees" and the Elaine Ingham's soil food web. Learning that trees have nose cells. LOL Trees talk to me. Connifers are very different from deciduous and need the right fungi to get started. Acorns need humic acid to sprout. Since Eucalyptus oil carries anti fungal properties, it's roots no doubt affect what fungi can survive around them. I study allelopathy and try to use it to repel/weaken invasive weeds that invaded the place long before I got here. This is the reality of life. In fact, I don't see anything else we CAN do (other than vote) except to improve the soil/earth/water/air. In the buddhist world there is also the fifth element of space, which is a little challenging to Westerners ~ `~ ~ ~ However, my solution to my frustration with the inevitable eco collapse that looms over us is, "Plant a seed." I end many conversations these days with that phrase. I do hope the ecological types can get on the positive energy of restoration. I don't see who wouldn't if they knew the magic.I've been turning compost since the 50's.but wasn't on my own starting my own garden with JR Rodale and Sally Swift's advice until 1971. I am a Master Gardener, but they are still mostly planting poseys and lawns and, IMO, don't do best practices -- mostly lost in the government drag, since it's part of the ag extension. I'm always controversal. But I once heard it said, "If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much room. I'm off to read Suzanne's book or whatever I can find to pick her brain 🙂 Thanks so much!
I don't know how she can cope and only saying "it's heartbreaking" because I am angry at this clear-cutting scheme that has been going for more than half a century now with the spead of glycophosate in the forest to kill everything that is not a timber-like product. I grew up in the forest too and did logging in my youth but never to clear-cut a forest. That is insane! I admire her for the dedication she has and perhaps someday the forest industry will grow up, unlike the desert it has created for too long.
Thank you Nate for discussing old growth forests with Suzanne. As ever the question remains how do we get the good policies from our governments? Here in Aotearoa New Zealand we've voted in an Atlas Network Tripartite Regime from which no good policy in any area is coming, just the opposite. Sadly, I'd say now it's becoming certain that some form of rebellion or revolution is coming. Few as yet in the rich west are prepared to take part in non-violent civil disobedience. It's coming though my fear is it won't be non violent. As Roger Hallam said 5 years ago on BBC 'if XR doesn't succeed what will come after will be guns and violence'. Right now the UK has thrown Hallam and others into prison to 'get them out of the way. The charges, ludicrous and non - sensicle. The bottom up will have to come soon otherwise we're going to be looking at 2.5º in the rear view mirror, and you know what that means.
Thanks Nate excellent questions. I wonder when the first American President will run with the promise to unite the globe to declare the Amazon rainforest a world heritage site and the introduction of a worldwide carbon tax used to compensate Brazil for their economic loss. Maybe under the slogan ,,make the world green again,, well, I foresee such a President would be remembered in a thousand years to come.
hearing about the loss of these forests makes me want to wail with sorrow. but her research is fascinating too! I'm starting to wonder if nutrient sharing would be possible in my garden, too... like if i grow a robust plant, then plant something more fragile near it, will they share nutrients?
The biotic pump theory not only says that trees create moisture and rain (that is basic plant hydrology) but that trees are the main force driving winds on the planet. Despite forests covering less than 10% of global surface area and oceans 70%. That is not easy to believe and not many people do.. listen to Stefan Rahmstorf two episodes ago for example.
30:00 Or value the wood accordingly to the richness of the ground you take it out of, at a very minimum. We speak of the richness of the land and the richness of a person, and we mean something completely different. Companies who do this are not ignorant of it either, but they have found a way to stop caring about it. I suggest we stop caring about them, and put them out of business.
Thank you for this episode which was mostly agreed with until the last couple of minutes where it was proposed to monetize and put a value on forests to restore them. They are already monetized and valued but for the pure purpose of transforming this value into numbers in bank accounts to make some humans feel wealthy and important. Proposing monetization and value measured in money terms is the seductive trap all fall into under this system labelled Capitalism which should more correctly be called Piratism. This is the problem all along that is decimating all biodiverse life on Earth. I'm shocked this was expressed considering the mentioning of a strong relationship with indigenous communities and their knowledge systems. I believe these communities would respect the trees and forests as beings of the Earth themselves that would also have indigenous rights and could never be valued in monetary terms. They also have a spirit that is part of the great spirit and deserve respect and care from all humans.
She was not talking about epigenetics, she was talking about Lamarkian Evolution, which has long been discredited. It's hard to take her seriously after that.
How did you distinguish that? They are similar and they discussed it very little in the podcast, not enough to say that she's talking about Lamarkism. The difference is the scale of claims and how widely applied they are. Lamarckism has been discredited as an overall explanation of life , as expansive as evolution described by Darwin and others. Epigenetics resembles in the abstract Larmarkism, in that there are changes to the organism that happen within it's lifetime that can be inherited, but not much else beyond that. If we go more specific, it changes DNA methylation among other things, caused by environmental stimuli that occur within the lifetime of an organism, and they are inheritable for several generations, BUT they don't make changes to DNA sequences as evolution does on much longer time scales on the level of populations. Only changes to it's expression and regulation, often it seems to be about more subtle adaptations like higher resistance to some disease, or easier to gain fat (in humans, The Dutch Hunger famine is one example that's typically explained by such epigenetic effects ) etc. While Lamarkism as you probably think about it, is supposed to explain what Darwin's discoveries explain. That is not supported. The change of of organisms and speciation over millions of years on a population scale. Plus Lamarkism thought there's some magic involved, to put it short. "Vital forces" that affect the organism. Vitalism back in the day was involved in many things. Like people believed there's a fundamental difference between living and non-living things and that living things have this vital force instead of simple chemical reactions, and they thought what happens is planned and with purpose within the organism, instead of simply an outcome of physico-chemcial interactions. Some old books like The mechanistic conception of life by Jacque Loeb are interesting since you get a glimpse of how people thought back in the day, and how new understandings from science were replacing their old ways of thinking.
@mitkoogrozev she stated that trees that live thousands of years are able to change their seeds (* the genetics thereof) over their lifespan as conditions change. This is not true.
@@xXxTeenSplayer I don't see a problem with the re-iteration that you wrote. It is a statement that fits in describing some epigenetic effects. Like what do you mean it's not true? Are you saying epigenetic effects don't occur with trees or what? Also why did you mention specifically "trees that live thousand of years"? Are you saying trees that live thousands of years specifically have no epigenetic effects occur to them , in contrast to shorter living trees that do? Maybe write a statement that you think is not true and then a statement that you think is true, so I can compare what you think is the difference.
@@xXxTeenSplayer There was no part of the video where such a specific claim was made, like I suspected you are reading into it. She clearly stated that she doesn't study genetics, so you cannot expect her to use language precisely, and did confirm by Nate asking her, that she does refer to epigenetics. And you can easily find articles/studies that examine that even in plants epigenetic effects occur which can then be inherited by their seeds so, again I don't see a problem. The "genetic change" is a change in gene expression and regulation, but not the DNA sequence itself. And again, nowhere in the video it was specified that there's a acquired and then inherited change in sequence, but instead she spoke more generally and loosely.
When I saw where they were going to put a pipeline and the virgin forest they were going to cut to make a broad path broke me on day two of a new job at an international environmental consulting firm here in SW PA. I had taken the job, believing the Administration's claim that this new fossil fuel form was clean and transitional. I should have quit then, but decided to adopt a climate change slant to all my reports. And then I saw and realized even worse. I resigned in 2012 after about a year, broken and I suspect blacklisted. So know there was at least one scientist that fought for your future.
I mean I used to consider forest fires more of an arson issue, but I mean it is almost a tipping point in itself. From the decrease in carbon storage (younger forests) Basic income would probably go towards downgrading money from being a survival resource from a nice to have more of if balanced with non self serving objectives.
We need to use more bamboo or Japanese daisugi forestry. We can actually increase consumption with this and still be sustainable. We can also eat bamboo shoots.
I wonder if other maladapted creatures the ecosystem deleted in ancient history also cared more about their constructed stories and global corporate energy / social / economic wars - than living in harmony with their own free and self sustaining water food and shelter supply aka the ecosystem
Back to 3% old growth. That's in her lifetime, folks. All of that time, the World Wide fund for Nature has existed, aiming at conservation , mainly , of Global South nature. In that time frame, US and Canada, and New Zealand to a lesser extent have Failed to protect nature Forests on their own land. Dunt know about Australia, whereas Europe has nearly cut everything, like NL cut the last important original stand in 1869 for agriculture. So it's still us telling the Global South how to deal with natural riches on their own territories. Shouldn't we be doing something different, like _not burning up trees in the name of "biomass energy"?_ and protect every square foot of what remains!!
What you need to do is showing big corporations that the big old trees are beneficial to them. That economies eventually will decline because of the way the do things. Saying that we are in Kindergarten is an insult to children. We are not. We are captured by a certain narrative by people with characters who don’t give a shit, only interesting in boom and bust. Why is it that Japan can have businesses older than 300 years, and some very large corporations parasite on everything and then go bust with a scandal. Don’t say good management. Why is GDP such a deplorable product of measurement. Why is it that change isn’t documented at the level of GDP. It all boils down to, no respect and perpetuating condescending narrative of the others. This lizard mindset is rampant. It’s the status quo cancel culture. But they forget, they can be canceled too. One way toxic narcism spreads is by euphemistic covering what is wrong. Just be brutally honest. Zeitgeist changes by telling different stories and observations.
Humans are not really "clever," at all. Evolution has been working on our Earths ecology for Billions of years. With our tiny. brains, our institutions, our computers, etc., we have only a faint glimpse of the complexity and power of our global ecosystem. We can only watch a brief instance of evolutionary time during our short lifetimes. We all (and particularly scientists) need to cultivate a deep sense of humility and awe at what life on Earth really is. The only reasonable way to view our place in the universe is to see our "big" brains, our upright posture, and our opposable thumbs as tools for protecting, repairing, and building the planet's ecosystems. We have no higher purpose.
My heart goes out to this one, I study soil biology fungi and composting & the beauty & intellect of these forests is astonishing. Mrs Susan Thank you so much for speaking for the trees & all life!
In the '60's our rural elementary school nurtured student's love of trees. Teachers took classes into the nearby woods to understand how a forest "works" and what's in it. The intentional curriculum, broad in scope and integrated into many lessons in every grade: we learned what grows in our area naturally, what they do, and provide--free of charge, mushrooms, herbaceous plants, animals, everything, how they are connected to us and, culminated in an arts and music program in which we planted native trees in a nearby field which later became a playground. As we sang, we planted and thanked the trees. The music teacher wheeled the piano out onto the patio! 🎼🎹🎹🎵🎵I think that I shall never see, a poem lovely as a tree. This event is indelible in my memory and heart. And dear folks is good caring education.
you just wrote about our future as cousins with our tree family.
I would argue that the benign awareness that is exemplified by this comment, is the diametric opposite of what is actually happening now in the world of corporate forestry. It is merely a microcosm of the "big picture" in EVERY industry and all of human endeavor.
We are very inspired by this work and idea. That's why we building a research centre in South Africa to study this phenomena here. We protecting a tiny piece of what is left of the coastal riverine forest. The message has gone out all around the world.
An instant classic in your series I'd say. That was an incredible discussion, worth rewatching occasionally for the special perspective of hers.
Oh what a delightful, learning-filled conversation this morning.
Nate, you always ask if we enjoyed (or) learned from these podcasts?
I don’t have to choose, because I both learn and enjoy, all of them.
Keep on doing your good work in the world, my friend…
So glad you've had Suzanne on Nate. She's so wonderful. A global gem
Good evening Nate and Suzanne
Beautiful.
Truly needed this today.
Still, after fifty years seeking my people so to speak.
So fed up with the office, too.
Again thank you for your sensemaking.
💜
I'm an environmental science student in BC and actually just watched Suzanne's Mother Tree TEDTalk in class (Biogeography) recently. So great to see her message being spread on this platform! Nate, you need to come visit some of BC's forests, UBC's Malcolm Knapp Research Forest is practically in my backyard and is one of the best places around Vancouver.
Suzanne Simard you are astonishing !!! Thank you Nate for this wonderful conversation.
Great editing! And preview really summed it up. Pro🎉
Thankyou. I have been in love (academically) with Suzanne Simard for many many years. She' s one of my heros. And I thoroughly enjoyed this interview.... some moments of real joy, some momens of real anger and frustration. I will pass this video on to my students (permaculture courses) here in Brasil. Thank you!!!!!
Absolutely brilliant. Thank you Suzanne and Nate for this gift to our earth.
I have long known about Dr. Simard's work... but to hear her explain and discuss all this is simply a treat. Thanks!
Wonderful interview ❤
I really love and appreciate these podcasts Nate. I had never even heard the term PHOTOSYNTHATE until today. 👍
What a beautiful and inspiring lady! Thank you!
I’m a tree hugger,straight up. Started with some Mindanao Gum Trees north shore Maui in the ‘60s. I’ve hugged a lot diverse trees since. You can’t be of that persuasion and having been exposed to clear cuts BC or up the inside passage to Alaska where leave swaths of trees visible highway and boat..yeah ..mushrooms pushed me into new areas in NW U.S.. the ‘communication’ of natural forests..its devastating what ‘we’(logging) has done to the forests..Thank You,Nate,as depressing as it is,bringing on the Dr..we wonder how things got unbalanced..
I have hiked extensively in New England in forest protection areas. You can tell so much about history just by the mix of trees. Birches completely come in quickly to areas that have burned or been damaged by storms. It makes so much sense that the speaker says birches are almost like a natural band-aid.
Thank you for the content. And, thank you for the research. As mentioned here, this communication phenomenon underground can be found in lots of sources in the indigenous people in other parts of the world as well whilst not so scientifically rigorous. It's a really tragedy of intra-, inter-species ecocide since the colonization.
Thank you and I love Suzanne's work, our forest is not old growth, was built by men during the Great depression, still we allow this to grow without messing too much with it. Many want to remove our huge pine cheery trees but I suspect this is the mother tree of our forest. So we always said no. People have condemned this claiming we need the money, but to me the forest is far more important.
Suzanne I believed helped prove this in in her evidence that by taking out that mother tree we hurt the forest.
Thank you, Nate. Though the pain of the ignorance and abuse we've been witnessing and experiencing is great, these discussions remain heart-nourishing beacons of sanity and grounded, creative and visionary thinking that bring forward real possibility for a better way of life. Something I now await and look forward to with great anticipation every week.
Brilliant woman! 🌲
Awesome interview... I grow Shiitake fungi in the forest and I spread endomycorrhizal fungi for the lawn - one acre that I mow. The biophoton research has secrets in terms of noncommutativity. "sharing carbon molecules back and forth." Definitely a big discovery. Great to hear the value of Birch to other species.
Great guest!
Followed her work for years and this did not disappoint!
Glad to have her back on, although I'm skeptical about that topic.
If you simply monetize nature and resources differently without changing the extraction and profit driven nature of capitalism (or even socialism and communism), you will still get corporations and wealthy elites using nature to their personal benefit....
Maybe that's not what she meant, but so much of this is the direct result of capitalist mentality, not just incorrect pricing.
The obscene wealth these people already control means they will just use it differently to continue their narcissistic and even psychopathic pursuits of profit and power.
We need to say NO to the entire idea that drives this economy.
It can't just be limited to pricing things differently and expecting that to solve itself.
Don't get me wrong, that's a bandaid that can help, but it's more of a temporary fix for the short term, and could end up biting us in the rear if we're not careful.
Part of the solution has to be removing these people from power and having a system that prevents them from regaining it.
Not an easy ask, i know
Brilliant as usual. Bravo
Fantastic! I love the 266% I am already zoomzooming!
Thank you, Nate and Suzanne. This was especially inspiring for me today. I live in the States, but interestingly, tomorrow I'm traveling to BC to Enderby in the Okanagan region for The New Human Regeneration retreat. The people holding this event are partnering with the Secwépemc Nation/First Nation community, and they will be leading us through an indigenous healing ceremony.
I appreciate this wonderful woman 🎄 ✌ 🌎
I strongly agree, and have basically understood this for many years, I’ve been communicating with tree for a long time, trees get lonely when everything around them gets cleared etc etc, being positive about changing our current is important but by the time those in power wake up, it will probably be to late, to do anything about climate change, as the tipping point has likely already been reach, in my opinion, but hope is quintessentially what makes us human….peace!
Fascinating 💚💙question the plastic bags inthe experiments releases ethylene and methane in uv light. Is it accounted for in the experiments? Just love these podcasts thatvget questions firing inside. I see the red Thread between all podcasts and see how we can make the Global Revolution we need now more than ever. It's a collaboration between science and social society. Music unites humanity . Thanks Nate and Suzanne ❤
Thank you both (and extended team) for an incredible conversation.
Great program, Nate.
I've had too much coffee for this right now. Saved for later. Good so far.
I would love to take a forest ecology course.
"If you lose an individual, you can still carry on because you have all these connections."
Wow! So glad to see Dr. Suzanne Simard interviewed on TGS! Thank you!! I live in Nova Scotia where, as in much of North America, there has been so much clear-cutting. Now the government is pushing HPF (HIgh Production Forests) -- monoculture conifers, sprayed herbicides, etc.. Will they never learn? 🌳🌲🌳
BTW, thanks also for discussing *biomass* and *biofuel*. What is happening right now and projected for the future is absolutely dreadful. The carbon accounting is so ridiculous -- cutting down forests with fossil fuel powered logging equipment, transporting trees to processing plants on diesel powered trucks, processing at plants that take a huge amount of energy, shipping wood chips or pellets across the oceans on fossil-fuel powered ships, and burning that wood, releasing huge amounts of carbon into the atmosphere. Who in their right mind can think this is a *good use* for forests? Anyhow, so glad this came up with your discussion. Also, the whole part about communities and grassroots level change. It has to happen, but the forest industry really tries hard to cut communities out of discussions. When they hold their *stakeholder* meeting, we, the communities, are not actually considered stakeholders. This is so wrong and it has to change. Anyhow, thanks again for this episode. I have shared it on the environmental groups I moderate on Facebook and hope that many will tune in.
Well, Nate, I love watching you get to the heart of the matter. My "aha" was Peter Wohlleben, "The Secret Life of Trees" and the Elaine Ingham's soil food web. Learning that trees have nose cells. LOL Trees talk to me. Connifers are very different from deciduous and need the right fungi to get started. Acorns need humic acid to sprout. Since Eucalyptus oil carries anti fungal properties, it's roots no doubt affect what fungi can survive around them. I study allelopathy and try to use it to repel/weaken invasive weeds that invaded the place long before I got here. This is the reality of life. In fact, I don't see anything else we CAN do (other than vote) except to improve the soil/earth/water/air. In the buddhist world there is also the fifth element of space, which is a little challenging to Westerners ~ `~ ~ ~ However, my solution to my frustration with the inevitable eco collapse that looms over us is, "Plant a seed." I end many conversations these days with that phrase.
I do hope the ecological types can get on the positive energy of restoration. I don't see who wouldn't if they knew the magic.I've been turning compost since the 50's.but wasn't on my own starting my own garden with JR Rodale and Sally Swift's advice until 1971. I am a Master Gardener, but they are still mostly planting poseys and lawns and, IMO, don't do best practices -- mostly lost in the government drag, since it's part of the ag extension. I'm always controversal. But I once heard it said, "If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much room.
I'm off to read Suzanne's book or whatever I can find to pick her brain 🙂 Thanks so much!
I don't know how she can cope and only saying "it's heartbreaking" because I am angry at this clear-cutting scheme that has been going for more than half a century now with the spead of glycophosate in the forest to kill everything that is not a timber-like product. I grew up in the forest too and did logging in my youth but never to clear-cut a forest. That is insane! I admire her for the dedication she has and perhaps someday the forest industry will grow up, unlike the desert it has created for too long.
a nice inter veiw with the wef
Thank you Nate for discussing old growth forests with Suzanne. As ever the question remains how do we get the good policies from our governments? Here in Aotearoa New Zealand we've voted in an Atlas Network Tripartite Regime from which no good policy in any area is coming, just the opposite. Sadly, I'd say now it's becoming certain that some form of rebellion or revolution is coming. Few as yet in the rich west are prepared to take part in non-violent civil disobedience. It's coming though my fear is it won't be non violent. As Roger Hallam said 5 years ago on BBC 'if XR doesn't succeed what will come after will be guns and violence'. Right now the UK has thrown Hallam and others into prison to 'get them out of the way. The charges, ludicrous and non - sensicle. The bottom up will have to come soon otherwise we're going to be looking at 2.5º in the rear view mirror, and you know what that means.
thanks
Thanks Nate excellent questions. I wonder when the first American President will run with the promise to unite the globe to declare the Amazon rainforest a world heritage site and the introduction of a worldwide carbon tax used to compensate Brazil for their economic loss. Maybe under the slogan ,,make the world green again,, well, I foresee such a President would be remembered in a thousand years to come.
hearing about the loss of these forests makes me want to wail with sorrow. but her research is fascinating too! I'm starting to wonder if nutrient sharing would be possible in my garden, too... like if i grow a robust plant, then plant something more fragile near it, will they share nutrients?
The biotic pump theory not only says that trees create moisture and rain (that is basic plant hydrology) but that trees are the main force driving winds on the planet. Despite forests covering less than 10% of global surface area and oceans 70%. That is not easy to believe and not many people do.. listen to Stefan Rahmstorf two episodes ago for example.
30:00 Or value the wood accordingly to the richness of the ground you take it out of, at a very minimum. We speak of the richness of the land and the richness of a person, and we mean something completely different. Companies who do this are not ignorant of it either, but they have found a way to stop caring about it. I suggest we stop caring about them, and put them out of business.
Thank you for this episode which was mostly agreed with until the last couple of minutes where it was proposed to monetize and put a value on forests to restore them. They are already monetized and valued but for the pure purpose of transforming this value into numbers in bank accounts to make some humans feel wealthy and important. Proposing monetization and value measured in money terms is the seductive trap all fall into under this system labelled Capitalism which should more correctly be called Piratism. This is the problem all along that is decimating all biodiverse life on Earth. I'm shocked this was expressed considering the mentioning of a strong relationship with indigenous communities and their knowledge systems. I believe these communities would respect the trees and forests as beings of the Earth themselves that would also have indigenous rights and could never be valued in monetary terms. They also have a spirit that is part of the great spirit and deserve respect and care from all humans.
She was not talking about epigenetics, she was talking about Lamarkian Evolution, which has long been discredited. It's hard to take her seriously after that.
How did you distinguish that? They are similar and they discussed it very little in the podcast, not enough to say that she's talking about Lamarkism. The difference is the scale of claims and how widely applied they are. Lamarckism has been discredited as an overall explanation of life , as expansive as evolution described by Darwin and others. Epigenetics resembles in the abstract Larmarkism, in that there are changes to the organism that happen within it's lifetime that can be inherited, but not much else beyond that.
If we go more specific, it changes DNA methylation among other things, caused by environmental stimuli that occur within the lifetime of an organism, and they are inheritable for several generations, BUT they don't make changes to DNA sequences as evolution does on much longer time scales on the level of populations. Only changes to it's expression and regulation, often it seems to be about more subtle adaptations like higher resistance to some disease, or easier to gain fat (in humans, The Dutch Hunger famine is one example that's typically explained by such epigenetic effects ) etc. While Lamarkism as you probably think about it, is supposed to explain what Darwin's discoveries explain. That is not supported. The change of of organisms and speciation over millions of years on a population scale.
Plus Lamarkism thought there's some magic involved, to put it short. "Vital forces" that affect the organism. Vitalism back in the day was involved in many things. Like people believed there's a fundamental difference between living and non-living things and that living things have this vital force instead of simple chemical reactions, and they thought what happens is planned and with purpose within the organism, instead of simply an outcome of physico-chemcial interactions. Some old books like The mechanistic conception of life by Jacque Loeb are interesting since you get a glimpse of how people thought back in the day, and how new understandings from science were replacing their old ways of thinking.
@mitkoogrozev she stated that trees that live thousands of years are able to change their seeds (* the genetics thereof) over their lifespan as conditions change. This is not true.
@@xXxTeenSplayer I don't see a problem with the re-iteration that you wrote. It is a statement that fits in describing some epigenetic effects. Like what do you mean it's not true? Are you saying epigenetic effects don't occur with trees or what? Also why did you mention specifically "trees that live thousand of years"? Are you saying trees that live thousands of years specifically have no epigenetic effects occur to them , in contrast to shorter living trees that do?
Maybe write a statement that you think is not true and then a statement that you think is true, so I can compare what you think is the difference.
@mitkoogrozev Trees gametes don't change over time, which she implied they did. She is factually incorrect. Just accept the information and move on.
@@xXxTeenSplayer There was no part of the video where such a specific claim was made, like I suspected you are reading into it. She clearly stated that she doesn't study genetics, so you cannot expect her to use language precisely, and did confirm by Nate asking her, that she does refer to epigenetics. And you can easily find articles/studies that examine that even in plants epigenetic effects occur which can then be inherited by their seeds so, again I don't see a problem. The "genetic change" is a change in gene expression and regulation, but not the DNA sequence itself. And again, nowhere in the video it was specified that there's a acquired and then inherited change in sequence, but instead she spoke more generally and loosely.
Stone Container was growing monoculture trees in Costa Rica and then we occupied the Stone Container corporate office in Chicago during the DNC 1996.
When I saw where they were going to put a pipeline and the virgin forest they were going to cut to make a broad path broke me on day two of a new job at an international environmental consulting firm here in SW PA. I had taken the job, believing the Administration's claim that this new fossil fuel form was clean and transitional. I should have quit then, but decided to adopt a climate change slant to all my reports. And then I saw and realized even worse. I resigned in 2012 after about a year, broken and I suspect blacklisted. So know there was at least one scientist that fought for your future.
I mean I used to consider forest fires more of an arson issue, but I mean it is almost a tipping point in itself. From the decrease in carbon storage (younger forests)
Basic income would probably go towards downgrading money from being a survival resource from a nice to have more of if balanced with non self serving objectives.
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I think the plants cultivated the animals to do their work. 😅
@@TennesseeJedyou and Michael Pollan share the same wavelength 🙂
@@jennysteves I think that's where I first heard it!
We need to use more bamboo or Japanese daisugi forestry. We can actually increase consumption with this and still be sustainable. We can also eat bamboo shoots.
I'm going to write to my MP to protest against Drax. This should not be happening.
In Canada write your MLA, MPP or MNA because the provinces control the forests.
I wonder if other maladapted creatures the ecosystem deleted in ancient history also cared more about their constructed stories and global corporate energy / social / economic wars - than living in harmony with their own free and self sustaining water food and shelter supply aka the ecosystem
It's been 'harmested/not harvested.
Knowing this is in our DNA, but greedy humans are not listen to it... respect nature
Back to 3% old growth. That's in her lifetime, folks. All of that time, the World Wide fund for Nature has existed, aiming at conservation , mainly , of Global South nature. In that time frame, US and Canada, and New Zealand to a lesser extent have Failed to protect nature Forests on their own land. Dunt know about Australia, whereas Europe has nearly cut everything, like NL cut the last important original stand in 1869 for agriculture.
So it's still us telling the Global South how to deal with natural riches on their own territories.
Shouldn't we be doing something different, like _not burning up trees in the name of "biomass energy"?_ and protect every square foot of what remains!!
Definition needs to be worked out like clay by hands.
If you are rasised in the woods, outside of the system, you had an Indigenous upbringing.
I wish someone had brought up the research (e.g. by Karst, Jones & Hoeksema) that challenges the universality of the Wood Wide Web theory.
Will research and revisit. Thank you
00:12 Human Population OVERSHOOT has created those SYMPTOMS…
What you need to do is showing big corporations that the big old trees are beneficial to them. That economies eventually will decline because of the way the do things. Saying that we are in Kindergarten is an insult to children. We are not. We are captured by a certain narrative by people with characters who don’t give a shit, only interesting in boom and bust. Why is it that Japan can have businesses older than 300 years, and some very large corporations parasite on everything and then go bust with a scandal. Don’t say good management.
Why is GDP such a deplorable product of measurement. Why is it that change isn’t documented at the level of GDP. It all boils down to, no respect and perpetuating condescending narrative of the others. This lizard mindset is rampant. It’s the status quo cancel culture. But they forget, they can be canceled too.
One way toxic narcism spreads is by euphemistic covering what is wrong. Just be brutally honest. Zeitgeist changes by telling different stories and observations.
Humans are not really "clever," at all. Evolution has been working on our Earths ecology for Billions of years. With our tiny. brains, our institutions, our computers, etc., we have only a faint glimpse of the complexity and power of our global ecosystem. We can only watch a brief instance of evolutionary time during our short lifetimes. We all (and particularly scientists) need to cultivate a deep sense of humility and awe at what life on Earth really is. The only reasonable way to view our place in the universe is to see our "big" brains, our upright posture, and our opposable thumbs as tools for protecting, repairing, and building the planet's ecosystems. We have no higher purpose.
Young Carol Lopez Laura Lopez Jose
Don't say ' You know' all the time.
its harder to fix damaged ecological systems than it is to extract...full stop
The answer is so simple, but its like getting a child to take cough syrup.
Not a word about Geoengineering? Just an honest omission! LOL! Go outside in Southern BC - don’t look up.