Israelite Religion: Is the OT Right? Francesca Stavrakopoulou
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ก.ค. 2020
- If we could go back in time to ancient Israel, what would religion and religious practices look like? Can we turn to the Old Testament for answers? Dr. Fancesca Stavrakopoulou explains.
For the full interview, click here: • The REAL Israelite Rel...
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For general information and sources relating to the Ancient Near East, we recommend these websites:
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University of Chicago Oriental Institute - bit.ly/2RcIiMl (great collection of free books and articles)
Livius.org - bit.ly/2Gzj5rx (general encyclopedia on the ancient world)
ETCSL - bit.ly/2QJsAZS (Sumerian literature)
ORACC - bit.ly/2QJsL7u (collection of projects relating to Mesopotamia)
EPSD - bit.ly/2PY99aw (Online Sumerian dictionary)
CDLI - cdli.ucla.edu (Cuneiform Digital Library Initiative)
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Music: Brak Bnei Original Composition - บันเทิง
Megan and Josh. You make the most amazing content.
Lots of love to you both.
once again proof that being accessible doesn't mean a drop in standards, and being educational doesn't mean boring -and being youtubers doesn't mean being unacademic.
Love these new short outtakes! 😍
She is fantastic, brilliant on big questions too
I really enjoyed this interview, she's really relaxed and engaging
It's very interesting how much the stories in the old Testament seem like the myths of surrounding peoples
No myth! There are cart wheels made of Bronze where the Israelis crossed over
Just found your channel, keep up the good work.
Your channel deserves more views, many more views....
If only the world would listen to the reality - Israelites wrote their future and are trying today too ensure it happens - but archaeology really does prove the mythology whilst also giving the reality of all life's evolutionary and our multi-spectrum cosmic origins - Francesca is a joy to listen too.......
I really appreciate this video..
Very well explained this episode answered all questions on the origin of Israel's monotheism
Does she have a TH-cam channel? Awesome video.
Did first temple physically exist?
I could listen and stare at Francesca all day
Could you do an episode about the ugirut and the findings at ebla
She is expert in her field very impressive
Wow Josh you know how to get around, two beautiful and intelligent woman I am just jealous
The question begs to be asked concerning Israel’s polytheism, “How do you know that?”
Indeed, there are no authors cited. I felt she was talking in circles and at one point acknowledged she forgot the question. Leaves out enormous amount of archeological evidence and textual evidence of continuity, including the dead sea scrolls. Mainly carrying forward the 19th century skeptics German Higher Criticism. Please see this about the discovery of Joshua's stone altar found on Mount Ebal. th-cam.com/video/tb1h45LqYpw/w-d-xo.html
I have not watched your channel for very long so I'm unfamiliar with some of the things you talk about.
I would like to know about the book of Isaiah.
I've heard it is not in order and I've also heard that it was pieced together from different time periods.?
What is the real order of Isaiah... according to the chapters and verses?
And what was written when?
th-cam.com/video/vwfngPczdps/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/3uOLpg2NwwQ/w-d-xo.html
There you go, two full interviews about Isaiah 🧐
@@andybeans5790
Thanks!
@@andybeans5790
Thank you
Thanks!
Does you know the ideias of Russell Gmirkin of date all Hebrew Bible from helenistic period?
It's an interesting hypothesis but I think such a neat and tidy origin for the Hebrew bible would produce more evidence. Most of the evidence points the other way, to a series of amalgamations and re-edits of disparate traditions.
It also takes agency away from the Jews and instead tries to appeal to conspiracy that their culture was invented by the Greeks, a bit like how early archaeologists attributed all monolithic construction around the world to Romans/Greeks/Egyptians because they thought the indigenous cultures were too primitive (translated: not white enough). The legacy of bias towards Western ancient civilisations still plagues classical studies
I sub to Mythvision and enjoy listening to Price, Gmirkin and others, they have really interesting ideas and are refreshingly open-minded compared to many scholars of religion, but you have to be careful to recognise which ideas hold weight and which are a bit too fanciful.
I cannot wait until she begins to bear her considerable intellectual and imaginative powers onto the ancient Greek and South Asian traditions.
What about the 613 mitzvahs?
Oldest inscription of yahweh was found in egypt dating around 14th century bce, found this in wikipedia, and so... What's this lol
The oldest plausible recorded occurrence of his name is in the phrase "land of Shasu of yhw", in an Egyptian inscription from the time of Amenhotep III (1402-1363 BCE), the Shasu being nomads from Midian and Edom in northern Arabia.
This is basically Martin Noth's thesis of the intentional Deuteronomistic redaction from the 1940s right?
Modern science is all we have...Religion is a mirage...all sacred books are human creations...
I knew in my heart that this Bible cannot be facts. I have been upset each time my family raisies the volume.why this God do destroy the evils for his servants to live without sin.we are very blessed by her to bring this information ,women didn't get the respect from the eyes of holy men especially Rome
What about the oral torah?
Don’t understand! It appears that there was an abrupt change between belief in multiple gods to belief in just one, as if there was no gradual change! Where are the pre Torah scriptures, were they all destroyed to sever the connection between the old gods & the only god?
So how does this reflect on Judaism today ?
Hi Francesca..interesting discussion..why do you think high profile Evangelical Christians are converting to Catholicism after reading the writings of the early Church Fathers. Have you read these authors..I have still to do so. How do you rate the Vatican biblical scholars and theologians..can your students use the Vatican archives as a reliable source?
Was in Rome for the first time in 2016..the Coliseum is a ruin..not so much who is Caesar as what is Caesar..visited St Peters Basilica and St Paul’s outside the walls, the Lateran, St Mary Major..filled with as you say Christ followers 2,000 years later. As Mary Beard lamented In her series at the same time what happened to that vast Roman Empire and civilisation? At least Paul used the trade routes they had set up to spread the Gospel.
Mark Thompson sometime DG of the BBC stated that when he started his career there in 1979 he thought religion was over! Well Yahweh had other ideas..just re-read Kings 18:20-39 and laugh out loud as his prophet Elijah kicks Baal and his followers in the proverbials!
Can you confirm that in the original Aramaic Elijah mocks the followers of Baal by asking if Baal has gone to the toilet.
Cheers
John
So if the Israelites believed in multiple gods and there was no one God then Christianity is based on falsehood....Is this correct?
Also even though Christianity says they only believe in one God Jesus they also say the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit. However then they have also the devil the God of this world....so how many gods does Christianity really have?
Read Dr Michael Heiser's Unseen Realm and other books, he does go into the divine council and the issue of other "gods" in the Bible.
The Israelites went from multiple gods to the idea of one single god, and christians adapted and evolved the stories in their own way, as did muslims later on. It’s all mythology, continually changing and being adapted to fit other times and needs. It’s super interesting and a real insight into past cultures, but there’s no reason to believe any of it is actually true. So the question of any of it being “based on a falsehood” does not really apply.
I have a secret crush on Francesca....oops!
Yeah, she is pretty
@@devarim6239 Pretty and her mind is twice as attractive!
@@theautisticpage Please don't think you are unique in your affections for Francesca.
Well it’s a secret no longer.
CompelledUnbeliever Who doesn't? :)
An amazing channel that opens my eyes and mind to other possibilities was Yahweh one of the sons of El
Sources?
@@NA-oc7eq mistaken attribution though yaweh was a god of war though there is research into ugiritic finds and the Supreme god EL
Were the hebrews a caananite people who formed their own identity with their legends and myths ?
@N/A
The Canaanite pantheon was conceived as a divine clan, headed by the *supreme god El;* the gods collectively made up the *Elohim.* Through the centuries, the pantheon of Canaanite gods evolved, so that *El and Asherah* were more important in earlier times, while *Baal* and his consorts came to fore in later years.
*Asherah* - early semitic Mother goddess, "Lady of the sea," *consort of El,* also called Athirat, ***the mother of 70 gods***
*El* - the *chief deity,* god of the sky, *father of many lesser gods* and ruler of the divine assembly, *also worshiped by the Israelites*
*El* ***Elyon*** -Special title of El as *"God most High"*
The Book of Genesis itself describes the *patriarch Abraham* as a worshiper of El-also called El Shaddai and *El* ***Elyon*** -- building altars, offering sacrifices, and paying tithes to him.
Google *"Canaanite Religion - New World Encyclopaedia."*
(Read about Canaanite religion and El the chief or most high god of the Canaanite pantheon and the relationship of Canaanite religion to Israelite religion)
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*Deuteronomy 32:8*
*When* ***Elyon*** *(El) gave to the nations their allotted inheritances,* when he divided the sons of Adam (El was also called Abu Adami, *“father of humanity,”),* he established the boundaries of the peoples *according to the number of the sons of El* (El and Asherah had ***70*** sons and in line with the Table of Nations in Genesis 10 ***(70 nations)*** each son *(Elohim)* received a particular territory or people (as a patron deity) like the Canaanite god Chemosh in Numbers 21:29)
Yahweh’s portion was his people,
Jacob, the lot of his allotted inheritance *(Yahweh was given Israel by his father, the chief Canaanite god El).*
Google *"Biblical Contradiction #3: Which god is the creator of the heavens and the earth: Yahweh OR El?"*
*Psalm 82*
*’Elohim (Yahweh)* stands in the *council of ’El (chief Canaanite god)*
In the midst of the gods *(Elohim)* he holds judgment.
“How long will you judge unjustly,
and show partiality to the wicked? Selah
Render justice to the weak and the fatherless;
vindicate the afflicted and the destitute.
Rescue the weak and the needy;
deliver them from the hand of the wicked.”
They have neither knowledge nor understanding;
they walk around in darkness;
all the foundations of the earth are shaken.
I said, “You are gods (Elohim),
sons of ***Elyon*** (El), all of you;
nevertheless, you shall die like mortals,
and fall like any prince.”
Rise up, O *’Elohim (Yahweh),* judge the earth;
for you shall inherit the nations!
Google *"The Most Heiser: Yahweh and Elyon in Psalm 82 and Deuteronomy 32 - Religion at the Margins"* based on the *majority scholarly consensus.*
Google *"Michael Heiser: A Unique Species? - Religion at the Margins"*
I'm new here. Forgive my ignorance.
I just want to ask:
If the world is coming to an end and I don't want to end up en hell, is reading the Bible going to save me?
Is the Bible accurate and reliable?
Thank you
If I understand you correctly, you are convinced that there is a hell (the rest of your question is a hypothetical, "if the world is going to end) so you need to first get to the bottom of these questions: what is hell and how do you know it exists? If it does, why are you afraid of getting there?
🌟Stellaaa Kowalski🌟 Catholic here.
I'm scared of fire
The world is not coming to an end.
When you see a big fire, call the firefighters.
@@yournamehere3071 but why does it make you think you're going to hell?
did you kill?
did you steal?
those are the mortal sins for which u should fear going to hell, not for venial things.
Which owes nothing fears nothing
@@yournamehere3071 If you believe in a god of love, he will understand. do not believe in liars who want to scare you in a sectarian way
Talk of metaphysics whether religion, philosophy is anyone’s guess: who cares. “The Historicity of Biblical Israel: Studies in 1&2 Samuel “, Kamal Salibi,1988. Tehom- thm - or Tihamah ( the coastline of western Arabia - Hijaz, Asir, Yemen) in Gen. 1:2 is not the ‘deep ‘. The scholars and experts floundering right from start. Why.
Sounds as if everything Francesca believes must be the way things really were back 2500 to 3000 yrs ago.
Close. Though she has found some keys, she hasn't found certain locks. And never will because some matters can only be seen directly by shamans/seers and initiated priests (very few atheists among these): ShaminVarunaOhrmazdBillingrAsarluhi-
SabaothNHC2,4&2,5. 🔐
God and religion, the biggest myth made up by and carried out on man.
Why does yhwh have a chosen people? This is bogus.
One point she talks about is ridiculous, regarding Canaanite idols. Israel claimed not to worship idols, so the fact that you find idols in Canaan is not surprising.. You are not going to dig up a lack of idols are you? One only has to look at excavations of the Indus valley for comparison. We know that they had idols from the texts and so we find idols. The onus is on her to prove that they were Israelite in origin.
This is like the claim that early man only ate meat because we can find fossilised bones but cannot find fossilised vegetables. Does that really mean that they did not eat plants?
This is a short clip so the context isn’t clear, but my understanding is that these idols have been found in Israelite/Judahite style homes. But I also think her point was that there isn’t a distinction between Canaanite and Israelite - that the later Southern Kingdom claimed to have been distinct from the Canaanites but there is no historical or scientific evidence for any of that as far as I am aware
@@redapol5678 what is an isrealite style home?
@@dunk_law honestly I can’t explain it to you. I don’t know enough about that exact topic, but I have heard explanations about the difference in style of housing. I’m sure you can do some research and check it out for yourself
@@redapol5678 www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/teraphim but this earlier and from a different place.
@@dunk_law what does that have to do with Israelite style houses?
I find her not credible in her presentation. If torah changed and was edited, why is it largely unchanged over millenia? Her premise would lead to conclusion that it would continue to change. It didnt.
You may want to pay closer attention next time.
Old Testament Judaism And The Jerusalem or Babylonian Talmud.
I don't buy what she is saying. Talk to a Brahman about the Hindu religion & he will most likely say that "the gods" (as we say it in English) were aspects of "the one" (whatever that might mean). Also, I have not heard you talk much about "the Anu" in sumerian texts as the apotheosis and the fact that we know that many of sumerian and egyptian deities were originally men of power (primarily the cattle owners)..
As a Jew it’s very offensive to me the assumption that my ancestors worshipped many gods until the time of the Babylonian captivity. It seems like it’s an assumption from archaeological findings of the idolatry that some of my ancestors got into that somehow ancient Judaism was polytheistic contrary to what Judaism has always taught and until the last 200 years or so most scholars believed. It seems like an anti supernatural atheistic bias that seeks to undermine Judaism and all monotheistic Abrahamic religions to read into the archaeological findings such preposterous assumptions. The evidence for ancient Jewish monotheism is within the text of the Hebrew bible and the oral tradition itself. Any absence of archaeological evidence justifying a rejection of the biblical claims and the traditional claims is an argument from silence because archaeology isn’t saying it wasn’t monotheistic originally. It’s only showing that many ancient Jews were disobedient and unfaithful to HaShem and worshipped idols as the scripture says and archaeology shows their idolatry. Monotheism wouldn’t have as much archaeological evidence because there would be no carved images of HaShem
It’s science. There is a lot of hard evidence for what you call ‘an assumption’. No need to get offended.
Wouldn’t it make sense that idolatry would leave more archaeological evidence than monotheism? Especially considering that in Judaism any image of HaShem is forbidden so thus there wouldn’t be idols to dig up in monotheistic Judaism. However the fact of the matter is there is the absence of pork bones and the bones of other unclean animals in many ancient Jewish homes which indicates at least partial observance going on in ancient times. Not to mention that the record in the Hebrew bible shows that my ancestors got into idol worship very early after the conquest of eretz yisrael and fell into it many times over hundreds of years before the exile to Babylon so of course archaeology will find a lot of evidence of idol worship but that doesn’t prove that original Judaism was polytheistic. To assume that it was when there is already an explanation for that within the Hebrew Scriptures to me seems like an atheistic and perhaps anti semitic bias
@@Shenandoah1982 If you want to write your own research paper and get it peer reviewed, you’re free to do so. All I’m saying is there’s no need to feel offended by the findings of actual scientists.
It’s certain more liberal theologically and atheistic scientists interpretations of archaeological findings. There are also observant Jewish and Christian and Muslim archaeologists who interpret it differently that more liberal and atheistic archaeologists do. I’ve been a student of archaeology since I was a teenager in the 90s aswell as a student of history and the Hebrew bible and Jewish studies and I interpret the archaeological findings and the Hebrew bible from a more traditional Jewish perspective
@@Shenandoah1982 Ok. So not offensive then, I’m glad we agree. 👍