Let me address you something. the reason i like lonestar drift is the no editing,no fake,no Bs story's.This guy made a mistake on cheating loosing the shocks. it went wrong.It was un cut.And the last part is when he admit he havnt feel anything untill chelsea told him to adjust the knops.This is the reason i like Lonestar drift.Thumbs up friend.
A bit of a correction, but springs don't affect load transfer. A higher springrate in the front (Or to be more precise, a wheelrate), or a softer in the rear will NOT "push weight to the rear". Not even one Newton more than you'd get otherwise, just pure kinematics wise. It doesn't matter if your car has 1kg-f/mm or 10kg-f/mm springs, you're gonna transfer the same load. Now what they will do is control the body, and if you change the relative stiffness of one end compared to the other, you will change the *distribution* of *lateral* load transfer, or Lateral Load Transfer Distribution. The car can and will only transfer a set amount of load from the inside tire to outside tire and you can't change that in any way with rates, but you can change how much happens at the front, and how much happens at the rear. Going stiffer in the front means that there is *more* load transfer across the front side-to-side, and because the total load transfer CANNOT be changed with suspension like I said, the rear will transfer *less*. Tires with less load on them have more grip (Yes, more grip) and the more you load a tire, the more grip it loses, which is why a more evenly balanced axle has more grip. Loading a tire more will cause the cornering force to go up, but at an unfavorable ratio. 1000N more load doesn't give you 1000N more cornering force but instead gives you less; so you want as little load as possible for a baseline. That's why lighter cars inherently corner faster; they have effectively grippier tires. You might be asking then why do people use aero if it increases load on the tire and decreases grip; it is true that it decreases tire potential, but the extra load results in more cornering force and more importantly it comes with effectively no extra MASS ie: inertia. So it's just free load without the downside of having to also push mass around; so the car corners faster. You need to take into account the suspension kinematics too; the LLTD is not decided only by the springs. Unfortunately there is no way to reduce load transfer of a car apart from making it lighter (It will transfer the same %, but less absolutely), making the track width wider/wheelbase longer, or center of gravity height lower. A simplified formula for percentage of load transfer laterally is: (1.0 * 0.5) / 1.5 = 0.33333333333 Where 1.0G laterally, 0.5m Center of Gravity Height and 1.5m track width, results in 1/3 of the load from inside being transferred to outside. Play with that formula to see the relationship. With this you might think then that professional drift cars make the front track very wide to allow for less load transfer = more grip, which is true to a point. It does increase the axle's performance. However it increases the *roll stiffness* of the axle more than it reduces the load transfer; so realistically most of the time you actually end up transferring *more* load on a wider axle because the springs are effectively stiffer in roll. The stiffer the springs, the stiffer they get absolutely; however the % is always the same. So going wider on the front of a stiff professional drift car will give you "more rear grip" than going wider on the front of a soft production car, because the front of the pro drift car became much stiffer absolutely (and thus relatively to the rear) than the production car. Roll stiffness formula is too complex to write here because it relies on quite a few car inputs, but you can find it by searching. The unit should be in Nm/deg.
@@jdmspirit99 Race Car Vehicle Dynamics has some definitions and examples and Suspension Geometry and Computation is also good if you're looking for more.
Just Watched Fielding Shredder "Shredding" At Gridlife Over The Weekend, And Now Going To Watch Him Tonight On Netflix! Also, Sorry About Your Car & Trailer Incident On The Way Down To The Atlanta.
Good topic. I’m curious about anti-squat and it’s effect on traction in a drift car. High anti-squat is used on drag cars. The suspension geometry actually lifts the car’s backend up during acceleration aka pushes the tires down into the ground. In autocross low or no anti-squat is used because high anti-squat causes suspension bind in corner exit. Road racing varies. But what about drift? From my basic understand of physics seems like the forces acting on a drift car mid-drift are actually closer to drag car. Seems like you would want a suspension geometry that actually lifted the rear of the car up mid drift instead of sucking it down aka squat. You would still want soft spring rate in rear to allow slower weight transfer and high spring rate in front to cause faster weight transfer. But what do I know. I just sneezed and crapped my pants.
Got a very good point there, that’s why he said his car was front heavy because of the 2jz swap so with the stiffer springs, it’ll allow him to get more squat to the back allowing for better grip and a better geometry throughout drifting and transitions. That’s why he didn’t even touch the rear springs. Suspension is all based on your car, doesn’t work for everyone, so make your suspension work with your car and not what some other dude does, everyone has a different setup. Gotta love different styles of racing and setups while finding the perfect one for each
Stiffer front springs do not increase squat. They do however speed weight transfer aka make ‘sharper’ steering. More squat = less grip Spring rates don’t change the car’s geometry. Cars, drivers, motorsports, tracks, etc are unique. Physics is universal. I’m just brainstorming, asking questions with hyperspace while avoiding cliches & platitudes during time travel in my yellow banana.
Drift cars have very low amounts of anti-squat in hopes that more weight over the rear tires will load them up and increase grip Edit: if you look at the fastest cars, they squat to the point that they lift the front wheels. Stiffer front springs help maintain the weight over the rear tires and softer rear springs allow weight to be shifted to the rear, specially during acceleration. In short, more squat and weight over the rear axle means more grip in drift cars.
@@chomin3025 traction is also the result of weight and relationship to the rubber coefficient of friction. The stickier of the tires you run the harder the springs you're going to have to run because the harder the tire is going to load your suspension and that will be further leverage if you have to sway bars the limiting how much travel the unspring side has and have that further loads the outside tire. Depending on your car and it's specific geometry your car could potentially even lose traction as the suspension is loaded especially if the geometry is whacked out. A lot of people critique the ND MX5 for having a lot of body roll but in reality the thing is providing a ton of mechanical grip and it has good camber curves to take advantage of the body transfer. Fd rx7 is pretty much the same thing and cars with well designed a arm style suspensions or multilinks can have nice camber curves. When you get into McPherson struts then the geometry can really work against you if poorly set up. Then you start to get into these weird balances of sacrificing straight line grip and braking power in exchange for a better contact patch. Another point I think some people might miss is the spring rates don't actually matter as it's the relationship of the motion ratio with the weight that will be put upon the spring that will generate a ride frequency. I think many of us prefer to have a slightly higher frequency in the rear to play catch up with the front to avoid a jacking down effect. All the said I'm not an expert on drifting or drift cars and their optimal setups. I have a fairly good idea of what makes a solid road car setup along with a more road course oriented setup. For all I know a drift setup is much more along the lines of an autocross setup which all my philosophies go right out the window if you just like at the results and what people may or may not like. I've always looked at Porsche as a major dynamics company and you can see that they consistently put more spring frequency rearward. If you start to add downforce through arrow then you get to experience a whole new set of variables that are speed dependent. And a perfect world with perfect glass smooth roads I would even say you could go without a sway bar but in the real world it's all about trade-offs so technically there's a lot of decent setups but it's all about your own priorities and selecting the right components to do what you wanted to do how you want to do it. Funnily enough it's kind of like tuning a car. Anyone can buy a nice ECU but it takes special people to actually make it behave how you want it to and in the wrong hands it can make your car far worse than stock. Personally I think the best dampers are the ones that have domestic rebuilding services that are hopefully local. One of my qualms with coilovers is the limited travel of many of the brands which is fine for most track cars but depending on the conditions of the roads of where you live might be fine or might require a step up in spring rate just to keep it usable for road use. Suspension is by far my favorite thing to play with on a car though I will happily admit I am so far from an expert but it's so intriguing. It's even more intriguing now that I'm in the world of McPherson struts. As much as I desire for it to be a more similar to my fd's old setup it just isn't he won't ever be. Luckily the 240 guys have been cracking away at these problems for decades now, BMW and Porsche as well. It's actually kind of sad to see how much of a difference switching up the suspension style of the 911 has transformed the car that even with all their expertise was a substantial improvement. I love discussions with other suspension nerds.
It’s just better to take the coilover off the knuckle when servicing or changing them...it’s two bolts. Another tip: do both sides at the same time so your not fighting the anti-roll bar.
Does he work for bc like chelsea does/did? also Please do an in depth on fieldings experience in hyperdrive, i have never felt more motivated just watching someone drive like that, in real life, not a movie with special effects, It was so amazing!
So, for a very low power car, would a stiffer rear spring rate help it to slide easier because less weight would transfer backwards when on throttle? *Asking for a friend* 😭
It was a Texas Motor Speedway Round in 2017 I think, maybe Round 4. There is a playlist of our events you can scroll through to find it quickly. Look for a thumbnail with TMS track
Is the diameter measured from outside to outside or inside to inside? Mine is currently a 7k front and 8k rear and I want to go to a 12k front and 16k rear
This nice guy is lossing that shock with the most amateur way could hurt him badly,and from what I was seeing in the video,the 14K spring rate is too much that the front axel could not even stop shaking, and his s14 is gonna need a whole lot bushing upgrade too. At the end, he mention that after the changing,the car will needs more inputs to react,with the lower rear spring rates,of course the rear axel is gonna be slow in reaction,even more unbalanced after the front spring rates upgrade.And I did not even realize this video was posted more than a year ago until I type down all thoese letters.Anyway, the video is great, goodluck to the nice guy with that butt dyno.
Interesting take on things! The setup isn't too wacky and works really well! And yes all his bushings are aftermarket, as is everything in his suspension.
Is it assumed that as spring rate goes up ride quality goes down? So putting 14k springs on a street s14 wouldn't be a good idea or are they unrelated?
Then I'll go ahead and take .5k springs in the front and .001k springs in the rear. Car currently makes small bumps feel like your using a jackhammer turned all the way up
Spring rate should be match to vehicle weight and available suspension travel. If you have 2” up travel, soft springs will give you horrible ride quality because you’ll hit off bump stops all the time. but if you have stock ride height with 5-6” of up travel then go for soft spring rates to increase comfort.
![ปฏิเสธไม่ไหว (Crush on you) - LIPTA feat. No One Else [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/NBw1jF342vw/mqdefault.jpg)
Let me address you something. the reason i like lonestar drift is the no editing,no fake,no Bs story's.This guy made a mistake on cheating loosing the shocks. it went wrong.It was un cut.And the last part is when he admit he havnt feel anything untill chelsea told him to adjust the knops.This is the reason i like Lonestar drift.Thumbs up friend.
Was that your first attempt at English?
@dan1906 i am not sure what you mean. Can you be more specific?
A bit of a correction, but springs don't affect load transfer. A higher springrate in the front (Or to be more precise, a wheelrate), or a softer in the rear will NOT "push weight to the rear". Not even one Newton more than you'd get otherwise, just pure kinematics wise. It doesn't matter if your car has 1kg-f/mm or 10kg-f/mm springs, you're gonna transfer the same load.
Now what they will do is control the body, and if you change the relative stiffness of one end compared to the other, you will change the *distribution* of *lateral* load transfer, or Lateral Load Transfer Distribution. The car can and will only transfer a set amount of load from the inside tire to outside tire and you can't change that in any way with rates, but you can change how much happens at the front, and how much happens at the rear.
Going stiffer in the front means that there is *more* load transfer across the front side-to-side, and because the total load transfer CANNOT be changed with suspension like I said, the rear will transfer *less*. Tires with less load on them have more grip (Yes, more grip) and the more you load a tire, the more grip it loses, which is why a more evenly balanced axle has more grip. Loading a tire more will cause the cornering force to go up, but at an unfavorable ratio. 1000N more load doesn't give you 1000N more cornering force but instead gives you less; so you want as little load as possible for a baseline. That's why lighter cars inherently corner faster; they have effectively grippier tires.
You might be asking then why do people use aero if it increases load on the tire and decreases grip; it is true that it decreases tire potential, but the extra load results in more cornering force and more importantly it comes with effectively no extra MASS ie: inertia. So it's just free load without the downside of having to also push mass around; so the car corners faster.
You need to take into account the suspension kinematics too; the LLTD is not decided only by the springs.
Unfortunately there is no way to reduce load transfer of a car apart from making it lighter (It will transfer the same %, but less absolutely), making the track width wider/wheelbase longer, or center of gravity height lower.
A simplified formula for percentage of load transfer laterally is:
(1.0 * 0.5) / 1.5 = 0.33333333333
Where 1.0G laterally, 0.5m Center of Gravity Height and 1.5m track width, results in 1/3 of the load from inside being transferred to outside. Play with that formula to see the relationship.
With this you might think then that professional drift cars make the front track very wide to allow for less load transfer = more grip, which is true to a point. It does increase the axle's performance. However it increases the *roll stiffness* of the axle more than it reduces the load transfer; so realistically most of the time you actually end up transferring *more* load on a wider axle because the springs are effectively stiffer in roll. The stiffer the springs, the stiffer they get absolutely; however the % is always the same.
So going wider on the front of a stiff professional drift car will give you "more rear grip" than going wider on the front of a soft production car, because the front of the pro drift car became much stiffer absolutely (and thus relatively to the rear) than the production car.
Roll stiffness formula is too complex to write here because it relies on quite a few car inputs, but you can find it by searching. The unit should be in Nm/deg.
interesting
@@jdmspirit99 Race Car Vehicle Dynamics has some definitions and examples and Suspension Geometry and Computation is also good if you're looking for more.
Just Watched Fielding Shredder "Shredding" At Gridlife Over The Weekend, And Now Going To Watch Him Tonight On Netflix! Also, Sorry About Your Car & Trailer Incident On The Way Down To The Atlanta.
Gotta love this guys honesty!
your brake line is just like " alright cool bro, this is fine don't worry about me..."
Shredder Killed it in Hyperdrive, may not have won but he was definitly the most exciting on the show lol
Loving the music during the suspension installation--very 1950s PSA montage.
Good topic. I’m curious about anti-squat and it’s effect on traction in a drift car. High anti-squat is used on drag cars. The suspension geometry actually lifts the car’s backend up during acceleration aka pushes the tires down into the ground. In autocross low or no anti-squat is used because high anti-squat causes suspension bind in corner exit. Road racing varies. But what about drift? From my basic understand of physics seems like the forces acting on a drift car mid-drift are actually closer to drag car. Seems like you would want a suspension geometry that actually lifted the rear of the car up mid drift instead of sucking it down aka squat. You would still want soft spring rate in rear to allow slower weight transfer and high spring rate in front to cause faster weight transfer. But what do I know. I just sneezed and crapped my pants.
Got a very good point there, that’s why he said his car was front heavy because of the 2jz swap so with the stiffer springs, it’ll allow him to get more squat to the back allowing for better grip and a better geometry throughout drifting and transitions. That’s why he didn’t even touch the rear springs. Suspension is all based on your car, doesn’t work for everyone, so make your suspension work with your car and not what some other dude does, everyone has a different setup. Gotta love different styles of racing and setups while finding the perfect one for each
Stiffer front springs do not increase squat. They do however speed weight transfer aka make ‘sharper’ steering.
More squat = less grip
Spring rates don’t change the car’s geometry.
Cars, drivers, motorsports, tracks, etc are unique. Physics is universal. I’m just brainstorming, asking questions with hyperspace while avoiding cliches & platitudes during time travel in my yellow banana.
Drift cars have very low amounts of anti-squat in hopes that more weight over the rear tires will load them up and increase grip
Edit: if you look at the fastest cars, they squat to the point that they lift the front wheels. Stiffer front springs help maintain the weight over the rear tires and softer rear springs allow weight to be shifted to the rear, specially during acceleration. In short, more squat and weight over the rear axle means more grip in drift cars.
@@chomin3025 traction is also the result of weight and relationship to the rubber coefficient of friction. The stickier of the tires you run the harder the springs you're going to have to run because the harder the tire is going to load your suspension and that will be further leverage if you have to sway bars the limiting how much travel the unspring side has and have that further loads the outside tire. Depending on your car and it's specific geometry your car could potentially even lose traction as the suspension is loaded especially if the geometry is whacked out. A lot of people critique the ND MX5 for having a lot of body roll but in reality the thing is providing a ton of mechanical grip and it has good camber curves to take advantage of the body transfer. Fd rx7 is pretty much the same thing and cars with well designed a arm style suspensions or multilinks can have nice camber curves. When you get into McPherson struts then the geometry can really work against you if poorly set up. Then you start to get into these weird balances of sacrificing straight line grip and braking power in exchange for a better contact patch. Another point I think some people might miss is the spring rates don't actually matter as it's the relationship of the motion ratio with the weight that will be put upon the spring that will generate a ride frequency. I think many of us prefer to have a slightly higher frequency in the rear to play catch up with the front to avoid a jacking down effect. All the said I'm not an expert on drifting or drift cars and their optimal setups. I have a fairly good idea of what makes a solid road car setup along with a more road course oriented setup. For all I know a drift setup is much more along the lines of an autocross setup which all my philosophies go right out the window if you just like at the results and what people may or may not like. I've always looked at Porsche as a major dynamics company and you can see that they consistently put more spring frequency rearward. If you start to add downforce through arrow then you get to experience a whole new set of variables that are speed dependent. And a perfect world with perfect glass smooth roads I would even say you could go without a sway bar but in the real world it's all about trade-offs so technically there's a lot of decent setups but it's all about your own priorities and selecting the right components to do what you wanted to do how you want to do it. Funnily enough it's kind of like tuning a car. Anyone can buy a nice ECU but it takes special people to actually make it behave how you want it to and in the wrong hands it can make your car far worse than stock. Personally I think the best dampers are the ones that have domestic rebuilding services that are hopefully local. One of my qualms with coilovers is the limited travel of many of the brands which is fine for most track cars but depending on the conditions of the roads of where you live might be fine or might require a step up in spring rate just to keep it usable for road use. Suspension is by far my favorite thing to play with on a car though I will happily admit I am so far from an expert but it's so intriguing. It's even more intriguing now that I'm in the world of McPherson struts. As much as I desire for it to be a more similar to my fd's old setup it just isn't he won't ever be. Luckily the 240 guys have been cracking away at these problems for decades now, BMW and Porsche as well. It's actually kind of sad to see how much of a difference switching up the suspension style of the 911 has transformed the car that even with all their expertise was a substantial improvement. I love discussions with other suspension nerds.
He could definitely use a stock air box lol helps keep out water! Lol
Love this guy he's a badass driver!!!
It’s just better to take the coilover off the knuckle when servicing or changing them...it’s two bolts. Another tip: do both sides at the same time so your not fighting the anti-roll bar.
Fielding, those dice.....STAHP!!!!
If budget for time was a video ❤😂😂😂😂
I'm always fascinated with how similar all of the principles are between raising a car and lowering your car. It's a lot of the same stuff.
Does he work for bc like chelsea does/did? also Please do an in depth on fieldings experience in hyperdrive, i have never felt more motivated just watching someone drive like that, in real life, not a movie with special effects, It was so amazing!
theres a full Q&A on shredders youtube channel
So, for a very low power car, would a stiffer rear spring rate help it to slide easier because less weight would transfer backwards when on throttle?
*Asking for a friend* 😭
yep! lower power is easier to slide with stiffer spring rates
Aaron, do you remember what vid it was you took that clip in the beginning from with Fielding's gnarly entry & the dirt drop at the end??
It was a Texas Motor Speedway Round in 2017 I think, maybe Round 4. There is a playlist of our events you can scroll through to find it quickly. Look for a thumbnail with TMS track
Is the diameter measured from outside to outside or inside to inside? Mine is currently a 7k front and 8k rear and I want to go to a 12k front and 16k rear
This nice guy is lossing that shock with the most amateur way could hurt him badly,and from what I was seeing in the video,the 14K spring rate is too much that the front axel could not even stop shaking, and his s14 is gonna need a whole lot bushing upgrade too. At the end, he mention that after the changing,the car will needs more inputs to react,with the lower rear spring rates,of course the rear axel is gonna be slow in reaction,even more unbalanced after the front spring rates upgrade.And I did not even realize this video was posted more than a year ago until I type down all thoese letters.Anyway, the video is great, goodluck to the nice guy with that butt dyno.
Interesting take on things! The setup isn't too wacky and works really well! And yes all his bushings are aftermarket, as is everything in his suspension.
Is it assumed that as spring rate goes up ride quality goes down? So putting 14k springs on a street s14 wouldn't be a good idea or are they unrelated?
It would be a stiffer / bumpier ride. Bumps in the road would be dampened less
Then I'll go ahead and take .5k springs in the front and .001k springs in the rear. Car currently makes small bumps feel like your using a jackhammer turned all the way up
Going for the rock crawler specs eh
Spring rate should be match to vehicle weight and available suspension travel. If you have 2” up travel, soft springs will give you horrible ride quality because you’ll hit off bump stops all the time. but if you have stock ride height with 5-6” of up travel then go for soft spring rates to increase comfort.
I hope he swapped/revalve his shocks to match the higher spring rate.
This is an issue, most just try and find the best mix
LSD videos are so good - not even shredder is safe 😂
damn the chevy's suspension collapsing made me lol so hard
It’s hilarious but sucks he spent thousand of dollars and hundreds of hours building his dream just to fall apart on first test drive.
K. 56-1. 8k- 448lbs 6k-336lbs.
Why does it sound like a plugin was used to make the voice more nasal? And why would anyone do that, I don't know.
What brakes is he running on the front??
wildwood dynamite just cleared the coating off
😂😂 easy to say than get it done! 😂😂
Ayo bro what engine you got in the Nissan?
2jz
Lone Star Drift thanks
One day, lone star drift will have a video with no mic connector noises in it...
Never lol.
What front calipers are those?
Usman Khan looks like z32
wilwood dynalite
Only takeaway form this video. If you change the spring you need to "re-setup". Who could have known...
13:59 do you mean „Knall fest die scheiße“ ?
Damn Fielding, you just going to let Aaron mooch off your video run time like that? LOL
I don't even know what that means.
Lone Star Drift smh damn moochers
???
LOL I literally don't know what is going on lol.
@@LoneStarDrift basically means "using his (fielding's) content as your own, which is a stupid claim honestly