People who buy bicycles because they see them in the Tour de France… often don’t realize these bikes sacrifice reliability for performance. And that works well for them, because they have the luxury of having a professional mechanic inspect and repair their bicycle after every ride (and sometimes during a ride!) Frame crack? No worries, a new one will magically be swapped in for you overnight. I ride a steel bike because I don’t want to have to worry about a sudden catastrophic failure.
I ride race-level carbon fiber bikes and have had zero issues with reliability. My oldest one is 12 years old and still going strong. I have a friend who's carbon fiber Trek is over 20 years old and still looks and rides great. Carbon fiber construction is so well optimized now that reliability is not an issue, as long as you buy a bike from a reputable manufacturer.
I am too frugal for a titanium or a carbon bike. I ride with steel like a peasant. But I consume a lot of TH-cam content. Carbon construction is fascinating. Leaps have been made, but they're not visible. Carbon is literally fabric and resin. There are different types of fabric. You can mold these fabrics in different directions and different thicknesses. Some areas can be thicker or thinner depending on the desired characteristics. Some fabrics are better for joints, others are better for straight tubes. Carbon can take any shape, and it's easy to work with. You can see how cheaper brands without expertise will likely produce heavier, less comfortable, more fragile frames compared to the leading brands. There is so much room to innovate. However, it's all very experimental. The consumer is a guinea pig. My point is: it's easy to pick a side and say carbon = bad. In hindsight, the cycling industry is innovating too fast and too much.
In the early 90s I bought a used Celo Europa frame/fork made out of Columbus SL. Rode it hard for a year or so and one day was doing group interval sprint training and noticed the handling seemed a little off. Figured it was a wheel going out of true or something. Couple more hard sprints and cool-downs and decided to look closer. Turns out one of the fork crowns had developed a serious crack just below the lug nearly all the way across. The frame/fork had been repainted (and looked awesome) so was most likely a hairline fracture the previous owner hadn't noticed from a crash or something that my riding exacerbated. And you could only tell there was any issue during complete in-the-drops and out-of-the-saddle effort. So I stopped interval training for the day and rode the 5-6 miles back to the shop and bought a new chrome SL fork, which ended up looking cooler anyway. Loved getting to keep all my teeth that day. Carbon is nice and light but steel is far more confidence-inspiring.
In 2012 I had a ti frame, built by Jim Kish ( Kish Titanium), built up with a 10 speed mechanical groupset and all the parts I wanted. It is still my primary bike and looks and feels the same now as the day it was delivered, which is to say like new. Since then, I've watched as the bike industry has gone mad and cyclists eat it up. So glad I never bought in to the scam.
My 2011 carbon frame has a crack…bike shop tekkie found it. A lot happier than me finding it on a ride. I loved my steel Cinelli in the 1970s. Having a titanium would be a dream
You’re absolutely correct. It’s all capitalist marketing hype. Problem is most of the sheeple don’t realise it. I must be in a very small minority of people who having bought into the scam when I first started riding in a group am still using my two 14 year old carbon bikes with mechanical group-sets and rim brakes. As Reg pointed out in this video, as long as you maintain the carbon frames everything should be good. As I approach 70, I doubt whether I’ll upgrade to the latest carbon bikes however I am very tempted to go get me a nice titanium bike to lat me the rest of my days.
I have both a titanium Moots and a Cervelo soloist. Horses for courses. Love them both but different tools. Just ride and enjoy yourself. Wheels and tires matter a lot more
I started to ride a titanium Merlin in 1990. Tom Kellogg designed the Merlin frame. Tom built me a custom titanium Spectrum in about 2001. I kept my Ti Bikes for many years and then gave them to friends. These frames will live on and still produce great rides for many more years.
Pros are advertising billboards, they advert companies via clothes and equipment. Some people buy bikes with the false belief they will go as fast as a pro because the pro rode the same kind of bike. If companies have spent a lot of money on moulds and factory set up for carbon then they are not going to reinvest in a titanium factory set up when carbon is selling well.
"If companies have spent a lot of money on moulds and factory set up for carbon then they are not going to reinvest in a titanium factory set up when carbon is selling well." They decided this BEFORE, not after. Carbon-fiber bikes can be made cheaply while even the worst titanium frame needs a skilled welder, even if he's in Russia welding up bikes from straight-gauge tubing intended for nuclear reactors like back-in-the-day. Ex-pros might buy a titanium bike to ride once they retire and don't get free ones anymore, but that kind of marketing doesn't move the units the big-brands need. Add the fact that carbon-fiber bikes can much more easily meet the 6.8 kg and "Bob's your uncle" as they say.
Gravel bike people are cool. Many look like they just crawled out of a dumpster. I believe that the gravel bike and alt bike scene is growing so fast is the same reason mountain biking exploded in the 90s, because road bike people are such a turnoff. I'm being polite by using the word turnoff, I can think of better worlds to describe them, but won't.
@@CrapKerouacI don't get the hate towards roadies. I am a roadie, but i also ride mtb, gravel, and believe it or not, an upright bike. Yet people only hate me when i ride my roadbike for some reason
And of course in 1999 Lance Armstrong won a time trial stage in the TDF on a Litespeed painted to look like a Trek. Can't do that stuff anymore because they make carbon fibre frames look so distinctive nowadays.
Yep. Up until the 1990's when they were still on steel frames, the top pros had their bikes built by master craftsmen and then painted them up to match the sponsor bikes.
It provided better videos, but lost out on price and availability. VHS (developed by JVC) was opened for use by other electronic manufacturers, while Sony decided that they could charge a premium price for their product. People are still sensitive to price and availability, even for bicycles. Reynolds quit making the 6/4 Ti tubing back in 2006 or 2007, and that led to the use of 3/2.5 Ti. I would argue that the 6/4 is markedly better for use in bicycle frames. And a Ti frame will always weigh more, but I have a 2000 Litespeed Tanasi that I still use. I don't think many 24 year-old carbon frames are still in use.
watch?v=_oJs8-I9WtA maybe there was actually not much of a difference, but it was a marketing argument, which is funny considering the points made in the bike video % )
I wish there was a bike company that just went out of their way to sell bikes that weren't UCI legal in any way. Find every single watt saving or speed advantage that was cut by the UCI and put all that stuff back onto a bike that's just for people who want to go fast AF and aren't trying to compete.
Just like the FiA really only cares about F1, and not other series, the UCI are the same for Road racing; and don't do enough for MTB, CX and other disciplines......
@@Thezuule1 One thing to keep in mind is that a lot of the changes that made bikes faster also make them a lot harder and more dangerous to use. The peak version of this are designs like the fully faired in human powered vehicles that can hit 80 km/h on the flat with the right rider or the face down fully prone position time trial bikes to minimise frontal area for drag reduction. As much as I hate to say it (Because the UCI very much are a corrupt organisation to levels that easily match FIFA and the IOC on pure love of money over anything to do with improving the sports they're involved with) some of the regulations on bike layout are there to stop the industry making products that win races but that no sane person would choose to buy and use for safety reasons. It's why the human powered vehicle and recumbent bike types have very little following in cycling circles. However dangerous it is to try to interact with traffic on a normal bike, a bike where everything is well below the window level of every car and it's impossible to lift wheels to hop over road debris, potholes and so on will be many times more dangerous. The UCI's rule about parts on pro bikes being required to be available to the public for purchase within a certain time of them being used in competition helps here too, though I have no confidence at all that the average customer actually gets anything that does much more than look the part as the mass produced parts tend to bypass most of the quality control the pro parts get for cost reasons, especially if it's made from carbon fibre.
I have a 2002 Tuscany with campy record. The tubes and welding are just art work. The frame looks like brand new. Best bike ever, till my 2022BMC Roadmachine. Love em both .
I have a 1999 Litespeed Ultimate. I was hit by a car back in 2020. Although the mostly all the components were destroyed the frame survived with losing any trueness. The Klein carbon fork was replaced with a Ritchey carbon fork. Rim brakes are still Campy Record. You are probably correct in that one of my boys will inherit it when I am pushing up daisies. Hello from Singapore.
I started getting into roadbikes in my teens. After having 2 cars clip me, I switched to MTBs in the early 90s, before suspension, disk brakes, electric shifting, etc. A couple of months ago, I decided to do a bit of roadbiking again. I hadn't been paying attention to the advancements in road bikes, they looked pretty much the same as they did 20 years ago as opposed to MTBs that have had huge advancements every year. So, I picked up an old Cannondale r1000 with a Dura-ace 7700 groupset for $200 US. It's great! I love it, it does the job. However, as I've started to educate myself a bit more, it's amazing how wrong I was about the changes in roadbikes. Even though the newer road bikes are incredible, I have no problems keeping up with the local riding groups. I say, ride what makes you happy, and keeps you wanting to ride.
@reginaldscot165 Yes, I definitely got lucky. The gentleman had stopped Road biking a few years ago, the bike had been sitting. He looked very financially well-off, I think selling it quickly was more important to him than dealing with a bunch of people for an extra couple hundred dollars.
In full agreement with the content of the video. A few years ago I read an article by someone in the cycling industry that a well known bicycle manufacturer were getting their frames made in China for 200 dollars each and sold in Europe and North America for 5000. $ . That was in regards to carbon . Now in the area of steel frames ,which you can also include titanium if you can’t complete the frame build within 40hrs , you’ve practically lost any profit. I ve. always compared a carbon bike to a disposable lighter.
Excellent commentary. I have a Merlin TI from 1990 and it still rides like new. Have a Lynskey Helix road, and a Pro GR gravel. I love my TI, have tried Carbon, but always go back to TI.
another reason for the lack of titanium frames in the peloton is that the pros don't need to give a tinker's cuss how long the bike will last, a huge factor in why many people like titanium as you mentioned. however, a pro could use a fresh frame every stage of the TDF. if the UCI allowed it, each bike could be designed to last exactly one stage, disintegrating 5 metres past the finish. I remember it was someone like chapman or murray talking about formula one engines, saying that the ideal engine life was one that blew up on the second time you started it (long before the modern engine component limits that are now imposed).
LiteSpeed T5 owner here. Rim brakes. External cabling. It looks as beautiful today as when I bought it...especially those gorgeous welds. 😍 It's a DIY maintenance dream, which is very important to me.
I started off years ago(age 9, now 57) on steel frames(Schwinn/Jamis/Bianchi/Lemond) when I made the jump from a Lemond Zurich(Reynold 853) to my first titanium bike a 2002 Litespeed Arenberg. Last year I purchased a Litespeed Ultimate rim brake version with DT Swiss PR1400 Dicut OXIC wheels and not once did I actually give a carbon frame a second thought. I look at the comparison of frame materials from a manufacturers point of view, carbon frames are high volume/extremely high yield and this makes them very attractive for mass marketing. Titanium is low volume/high yield, though I am starting to see more boutique brands testing the niche titanium market, as my hypothesis on carbon frames may be starting to plateau(are the manufacturers looking for the next marketing products?), now off my soap box. Off subject, While I'm not opposed to disc brakes and prefer rim brakes, I realize rim brakes days are numbered. I'm now in the market for an endurance, longer distance bike and I'm highly tempted to replace my 2002 Litespeed Arenberg with a 2024 Litespeed Arenberg(12sp 105 mechanical and hydraulic disc brakes, but most importantly a much more age friendly relaxed riding position).
You Sir made an excellent decision… and then kept making excellent decisions! That bike sounds perfect, I love DT Swiss wheels and the OXIC is about the best aluminium wheel available. Well the days of rim might be numbered, but unless you want to do gravel/off road Disc simply isn’t needed. Perhaps custom might be an option for the “perfect” bike for your needs? All the best and safe riding! 🙂👍🏻
I’ve been riding my Lightspeed Arenberg in club rides and tours for 25 years. Not tired of it yet and have worn out 2Campy Groupos. Great ride on 25mm Continental 5000.
Dual pivot rim brakes! Reliable, easy to service, lighter in weight. It's kinda of like the threadless headset. It save manufacturers money, no impact on performance.
I was hit by car at the age of 65 (routinely rode 70+- miles/week on a MTB - for me, it's about endurance and fitness, not speed) - TBI + spinal fusion surgery, 3 years in recovery. I'm finally back to riding those distances again, though no more metro riding. Law of averages: the more time spent on the asphalt, the higher the likelihood you'll be hit. It's not if you'll get hit, it's when. 😉
I have a litespeed firenze and a bianchi xr4. I ride my litespeed way more. Its more comfortable, feels stronger and don't have to worry about it being damaged easily. The xr4 is very nice and it does feel a bit faster. Could be the wheels are 50mm on it compared to 38mm on the litespeed or the lighter weight of the bike. I sure have to worry way more about wear and tear on the bianchi. At the end of the day I enjoy both for what they offer and know the litespeed will outlive the bianchi and perhaps even me:). UPDATE. I ran over a construction sized staple/nail and by the time I realized I had a flat it had dug a scratch through all 3 layer's of paint on the inside of the chainstay on the xr4:(.
CF makes any shape directional, has superior weight/strenght ratio. It makes it best material for bikes - especially for me, as I love to ride in mountains, and I produce barely 100W average. My first passo Stelvio I've done on 15.5 kilo clunker on steel frame, steel chainrings, crankset and rims - it took me 4 hours when I was 31, my last took me 2.5 hrs on 5.5kilo Scott Addict Ltd. when I was 61. Of course there is nothing for free - You cannot treat your composite with hammer, but hey - I've got almost 100 000km on my 2007 Addict and it's still ticking, while my previous, almost twice heavier alu frame I broke a year after purchase, just riding uphill on Tenerife. If you comparing bike with tanks I'll dare to compare it to free flying models I was making them for decades for competitive sport. When we started making them of CF ( first stolen from Soviet military complex ), we brought them to superior competitive level. I can further explain Ti weaknesses, or Alu PA9 ( 7075 ) weak points, or 6061. I machine Ti and those alloys especially for bike parts nowadays. In the past for very demanding, extremelly lightweight, strong, still possibly stiffest flying models. When most problems we sorted out by modern composites, especially CF, to level where propulsion had to be cut by 30%, because models starded flying beyond airfield. 😄
Well you can make shapes with Ti or aluminium, especially now we have 3D printing. As for “strength to weight” Ti bikes are many times stronger than carbon, if we wanted them to be as fragile as carbon they would be lighter. But who wants Ti bike you can snap? Interesting that another TH-cam channel did a test between a Ti bike and a carbon bike and the Ti bike climbed up a mountain faster every time even though is was slightly heavier… 😉
Good video and I agree with you, the relentless pushing of product is the reason we don't see ti frames in many cycling disciplines where they may well be more suitable - or steel and aluminium for that matter. "Race Sunday sell Monday". I do think "development" does occur at a faster rate as a consequence and, regardless of where one feels peak bike is, it probably wouldn't of got there if we didn't live in such a profligate world. Who wants to drive a trabbie when a VW golf is available? Incidentally I, as a rider for over 30yrs, was seriously looking at titanium a few years back. I didn't go there in the end but do know two cyclists who did, both had cracked frames - warrantied obviously - and both thought it was a for life purchase. I'm also friendly with the owner of a very long standing and well regarded lbs who sells and services high end bikes. He, over the years, has seen lots of cracked ti frames, even more ali frames and more again failed carbon. Seems only steel, death and taxes are forever - I know...steel fails too.
Yes nothings is truly “forever” and everything “can” fail. At the end of the day it’s a calculated risk where we spend the money. But the odds are slightly in your favour with say and US made Ti frame or a British/Italian made Steel frame in my opinion. 😊 All the best and safe riding! ❤️
I purchased a specialized tarmac frame, the carbon s works version, in 2008. It had been used and ridden everyday and was third hand. The frame was cracked, but I got a local boat builder to fix it up and he said that for an 20 extra grams it was stronger than new. He explained that as long as the frame was not stressed above tolerances it would last forever. The bike transformed my racing at the time and I still use it on my indoor trainer. While I am considering a titanium frame for mountain biking and bike packing, I am not sure if I agree with all aspects of your video. I think if titanium had advantages over carbon, the pros would use it. No question. The teams look for every advantage. For recreational riders like ourselves I can see many advantages of having a titanium bike. I love disk brakes and would never go back, although rim brakes were lighter than the brand new discs, I doubt that is the case now Technology such as through axils is annoying but look at the advantages. I could alao never go back to cable gears for normal cycling and racing
I did explain it all in the video. You still said exactly the same thing… 😅 “but if titanium was better the pros would be using it.” Nope, that’s the point. And “the pro teams look for every advantage.” Of that were true they would still be running tubular tyres with latex tubes that have been proven time and again to be faster than anything else. The pros often ride kit they don’t like and don’t work well, the famous “fu*king SRAM!” Screamed by a pro rider at his electronic group set comes to mind.
You're definitely right about the safety of disk brakes. Especially in bad weather. But there's a maintenance problem and cost involved in buying new tech. I still ride my time fluidity bike from 2013, I think. It barely fits 28mil tires. Has rim brakes and everything. But it also fits me well, and I can service it myself without having to buy a million different tools. Has no proprietary tech on it. Fits any seatpost or stem. Plus, i just can't justify spending 5-6 or even 10 grand on a bicycle. It's just insane to me.
@@5gvaccinator343 I'm mostly riding cross/trekking/hybrid bikes (some call them fitness bikes now I think). One is 2015 aluminium frame and as high-tech as it goes for that time (Deore XT hollowtech, disc brakes), the other is 1999 Cr-Mo steel frame (also pretty good for its time). The only disadvantage I see with the more modern one is weight (~2kg heavier as it has a suspension fork), everything else is better on it (stiffer, better power transfer, better braking & general handling). The biggest problem with rim brakes for me is the wear of the rim that eventually needs to be replaced. With disc brakes changing the pads & rotors myself is not a problem at all. I leave the drivetrain work to a proffessional (with both bikes). I don't really see the maintenance problem you mentioned, could you elaborate?
If the professionals went back to riding steel frames the fans would not be able to afford to buy one. It’s not the steel itself that is expensive but the process of manufacturing the tubing; Reynolds, Columbus, Vitus etc etc. I have a Reynolds 753 frame (Cinelli Lugs) equipped with a Shimano Dura Ace 7800 groupset and it rides like a dream . Steel is Real.
To each their own. But I like riding metal. My last bike (alu) lasted 20 years - now it's on my turbo trainer. The trick is keeping a sharp eye out for corrosion. I'd love a Ti disc brake bike, but I've got kids at uni. So the new bike is also alloy. Not interested in carbon. Cheers
Enjoyed your thoughts, love your bar tape color! After several Al, several carbon, and several steel bikes just finished building up a Lynskey titanium with room for 32mm tires. Very happy with the ride and knowing it’s the bike for every condition.
Not a good reason. The weight limit is 6.8. The new disc carbon aero bikes struggle to hit 7kg nowadays! My titanium bike is 6.4kg at race weight, 6.5kg when I have all my lights on training tyres on it.
@@reginaldscot165 Okay, when I was looking into getting a Lynskey frame, it was nearly 4 lbs. My Focus Cayo Evo disc frame is under 900 grams, I was led to believe that a ti frame that light would be very flexy hence the weight penalty for a stiff (enough) ti frame! I would love to get a ti frame, but for my budget I find many more affordable carbon fiber frames available. As far as longevity, my buddies have been riding the same carbon frames for over 10 years and 100,000 miles. Thats a good lifespan in my opinion. I keep looking and I will try a ti frame when I find one at a good price! Thanks for the videos!
@@reginaldscot165 My Focus Cayo Evo disc frame is under 900 grams, Litespeed T1SL is 1150 grams. The team riders would need to use even lighter (possibly weaker) components to get down to UCI weight limit with a 1/2 lb+ heavier ti frame. If I had the budget I would get a ti frame today, but they choices are wider for affordable carbon frames. I keep looking and when I find a ti frame at the right price I will pull the trigger! Love the videos, keep them coming.
The problem with the whole “Ti manufacturers do it for the love” premise is that as soon as ABG took over Litespeed in ‘99, they started selling LS-branded carbon frames. This strategy didn’t do well, I imagine because people associated LS with Ti. LS finally saw the light and played to their strength, which is titanium. They dumped CF because it wasn’t making money, not because of love for Ti
I see the same story under a different light. They were taken over by a big conglomerate who decided (independently of the staff of LS) to sell their good name in the world of titanium to make more profit by jumping on the carbon band wagon. (This kind of proves what I say about the relationship between carbon bikes and profit.) That doesn’t mean the guys on the shop floor have any less love for their work in titanium. (What you provide isn’t evidence of that.) And yes, they were unsuccessful (I’m told the carbon bikes were very good by people who own them) but that is because nobody wants to buy carbon from a famous titanium brand. (Thank goodness.) They could have rebranded but that would have been compounding the mistake. ABG has other brands selling in carbon still that do better anyway. So they did the smart thing and let LS get back to what they do best. But the biggest flaw in your argument is you are just looking at LS, I’m talking about titanium brands in general and in general in the west they are small companies doing it for the passion. Most of the brands in Europe have less than 10 people working in the production side.
Love the video. I am new to cycling and had an old Trek aluminum frame. Found a Greg Lemond Ti I picked up for a great price. It's 2 decades + old and still looks amazing. As you stated in the video, I immediately felt how much better it cornered.
Thank you and Welcome aboard! 😅 You have fast tracked to cycling heaven. 😎 Next time your friends are talking about new bikes you will just be upgrading your titanium frame. 😉
It costs $100-$500 to make a carbon frame.... by putting them under pros so the top races can be won on them those frame sell for $2000-$7000. Money talks.
I'm extremely happy with my aluminium rim brake bike. It was absurdly cheap, so much so that the frame must've come almost for free, but it has a lifetime warranty, and is compliant in all the right places. Pure joy to ride. It even accommodates 30 mm tires easily. I even ride a 32 mm tire up front sometimes.
Nice, I’m selling a Titanium bike at the moment at a crazy discount. Basically at this price you would normally only get the frame! But I’m selling everything for that price, from the headset to the wheels, from the saddle to the group set. Hopefully someone is lucky/smart enough to buy it. 🤷🏻♂️😅
@reginaldscot165 Great. I'm sure you'll sell it easily. My bike was $1,000 with a full 105 groupset and Fulcrum Racing 6 wheels (which proved to be bombproof, even with their 18 spokes in the front and 20 in the rear). I swapped the wheels for carbon ones since then, but I can't feel or measure any difference apart from not ideal braking performance in the wet. But maybe I gained 5 watts at 35 km/h, they are slightly wider and look cooler so no huge regrets.
@@reginaldscot165 Are you the Reginald Scott I offered to help to take out a private prosecution against the Neanderthal who tried to murder you in Nottingham because you were holding him up in his hire car , and got off scot free in court?
Carbon is just better for racing, it is much lighter, stiffer, but can also have compliance engineered in, and there's much more flexibility for shaping it to be more aero. My best bike is a Litespeed Archon (from the look of your top tube looks like you might have the same), and I like it, I bought it because I like the idea of it and I expect it will outlast me. I've raced on it, won races on it and as an amateur it's not going to be holding me back but honestly carbon is just better for racing. The Archon is very stiff (stiffer than usual for Ti) and I have more comfortable carbon. I also rode a Ti Van Nicholas Amazon from Ireland to Indonesia (missed Brunei)... I like Ti. But I also have carbon bikes and it's easy to understand why no pro has raced on it since the 90s, just about any performance metric, carbon is better.
Carbon is definitely the most convenient material for tailoring the local and overall stiffness and 'tube' shapes and tune the ride feel, but it could be done with other materials but would just cost a lot more to do so - you see a lot of hydroforming in Al frames these days but its significantly more difficult and consequently more expensive to do that with Ti.
Mine is the T1SL and it’s 2 gen above your frame. Yours is well sort after for super light builds online, but people do complain it lacks stiffness. That’s not a problem with the T1SL, in a online review they said it was in the top 10 stiffest bikes they had ever tried. I think comfort is underrated as a performance metric, I feel so much better racing on Ti or steel than I do on carbon. I feel tired, and fatigued on carbon and full of energy on titanium. That feeling is worth more than a 2 Watt aero advantage you might get from a carbon bike. Everyone I know who switched to a modern LS would never go back, even people who race. My friend bought a brand new TCR advanced, he tried my T1SL 1 time to see what it was about. The next week he put his TCR up for sale and bought a T1SL. 😆
@@Dunning_Kruger_Is__On_TH-cam there's more to the problem than what you're suggesting. The shape of objects massively alters the stiffness or compliance of the overall thing. A flat sheet of a material and a triangular frame of the same material have entirely different bending points despite being the exact same material.
@@Dunning_Kruger_Is__On_TH-cam If you understand mechanics it will be enough to say CF makes any possible shape directional, and has superior weight/strenght ratio. If you love to ride in mountains you love it lightweight.
As someone who owns steel, aluminum, titanium and carbon bikes, I have to say that I've never heard a bigger crock of nonsense and specious reasoning (thank you Lisa Simpson for the perfect term). The only advantage of titanium over carbon as a frame material is long-term durability, period. It's a wonderful material and properly designed and built Ti bikes ride beautifully. I love mine, too! However, I don't feel the need to justify riding Ti by making up a bunch of ridiculous crap to disparage carbon fiber bikes. I fear that Reginald "doth protest too much" and in his religious zeal, likely turns people off toward Ti bikes. I honestly had a tough time sitting through the entire video. The truth is that carbon fiber is lighter per unit of strength/stiffness, its ride characteristics are essentially infinitely adjustable by varying the layup, and it can be built in shapes that are simply not possible in Ti tube-built frame, though this latter advantage is changing to a limited degree due to 3D printed Ti frame components. Complete 3D printed, aero Ti frames are technically available, but are largely unaffordable. I haven't ridden one - few people have - and I wonder if the ride quality and weight suffer compared to Ti tube frames and carbon fiber frames. If you're looking for a lifetime frame, Ti is absolutely the best material. As long as you can get components to fit it and you don't drive your car over it, you'll likely never need to buy another bike. However, if you're looking for the pinnacle of performance, carbon fiber is it, at least for now. As for rim vs. disk brakes, on the road I only ride rim brakes - including on my carbon fiber bikes - because they're light, easy to maintain and provide all the braking power and modulation I need. Off-road, I only use disk brakes as they are superior for variable conditions (dust, rain, mud, snow, ice) and extreme downhill grades. I choose the appropriate tool for the job.
Any bike frame material is infinitely adjustable. You know that you can mix metals right? You know you can adjust wall thickness right? You know you can change tube shapes right? The fact you think carbon is somehow unique in that aspect shows your surface level understanding of this topic. You probably got all your information from GCN or the like. You got your vocabulary from a cartoon so I don’t think it’s unreasonable to assume that. Also you are basically saying I’m wrong and that profit in big business plays absolutely no role in there decision on product material choices? Who sounds more ridiculous now? Go look at even the military, they have an almost unlimited budget and yet they still often choose the cheaper option over the technology that is actually proven to be better. Money talks, the rest is marketing.
Riding a 2018 Litespeed T2 as my do-everything commuter and love it. Timeless looks, no paint, no corrosion & light. Components can be upgraded as needs/desires permit.
i have a 32yo road racing bike and its getting impossible to replace broken or worn parts. the bike industry deliberately introduces interdependent parts all the time. it's only a matter of time before yours is too obsolete from this to even ride
@@geoffreyanderson4719 You bought the wrong bike 32 years ago. I have a 45 year old Reynold 531 steel frame, it's tatty, light and rides really nice. apart from the frame (and the Brooks saddle), every other component has been worn out and replaced and I can still buy everything I need for it. Planned obsolesence is the scourge of the capitalist system and ultimately humanity. Look at the plethora of bottom bracket designs that really don't improve that much on the square taper but do mean that you have to go back to the manufacturer when they start creaking and can destroy a frame if not carefully maintained. Whose interest is this 'technological improvement' in ?
Problem with Ti is if ain't welded oxygen free, it can crack. And then it's a warranty job or an expensive repair. I'd never buy a s/h titanium frame for that reason: Often a lifetime guarantee for the buyer, but that's lost if the frame is passed on. Personally I'd still just go 853 or 953 or their Columbus equivalents.
This vid has many good points, but there are also some fallacies. First, a ti frame absolutely can and does show wear itself over time. I used to ride a Serotta Legend ti and that frame showed all sorts of scratches and marks from road debris kick up in under a year. Had a beadblast finished Eriksen, and that frame showed all kinds of marks in under one year. Many ti frames are beadblasted or have a brushed finish and both those finishes will absolutely show markings from cable rub, chain suck, shoe heel rub on the chainstays, etc... and it will not take long for that type of wear to show up. Sorry, but I have many friends, who regularly ride ti frames from Moots, DeSalvo, Firefly, etc.... and literally every single one of their bikes shows wear in under a year if they are riding regularly. And it is wear that is quite easy to see. Second, a carbon fiber frame is actually easier and cheaper to repair than a ti frame. Go crack a ti chainstay and try to get that repaired? Good luck with that. If you can actually find someone that will do it, I'll guarantee you it will be a very costly repair. Crack a CF chainstay, of any other tube in the frame and there are literally dozens of CF repair shops and even CF bike makers themselves, who will repair CF frame damage at a reasonable price. Last, CF frames are not only lighter than ti frames for a given stiffness, but more importantly a well made CF frame will absolutely damp high frequency road vibrations far better than any alloy framed bike made of steel, ti or aluminum. It just will and that damping of high frequency road buzz absolutely leads to more rider comfort over long rides with everything else being equal (tire and wheel choice, cockpit, etc...). CF frames can also be shaped far more easily than ti frames to provide compliance in desired directions and stiffness in other directions. Ti and other alloy bicycle frames are far more limited in their ability to be built into framesets that can provide compliance in one plane and stiffness in another. It can be done a bit, but their ability to do so is very limited compared to the fabrication options available to CF frames. Just because a ti frame takes more time to fab than a CF frame does not mean it is a better product, nor does it mean it is a higher quality product. It just means it took longer to make. That's it!
I’d hardly compare the wear of a carbon frame with a “scratch” on a titanium frame. You do know you can polish titanium to make it look good as new right? There is no structural issues with that, unlike with carbon over time. Cables rubbing on carbon is way more serious and damaging for example. 🙄 Repair: only because there are more people doing it because it’s more in demand. Because carbon frame get broken more frequently. It’s very logical when you think about it. It’s hardly a negative of titanium, on the contrary it’s an indictment of CF. CF is only lighter because it’s less stiff and weaker. Make a carbon tube as strong as a titanium tube and it will be so thick that it will be significantly heavier. (That’s a fact) Nobody would buy a Ti frame that’s as easily broken as a CF frame. The marketing on CF is it needs to be light to justify the price. So they sacrifice stiffness and reliability. If there was the demand for titanium you might see further investment in 3D printing, as of now you can still make advanced shapes in titanium, it’s just more difficult and costly because it’s on a small scale. (Plenty of new Titanium brands making integrated aero frames nowadays) carbon is only stiffer on paper, in reality most aluminium frames are stiffer than most carbon frames because of the tube thickness. I have a friend who was new to cycling, he had 5 big brand carbon bikes in 2 years, (giant, factor x2, Cipo, Boardman) ended up on a Allez Sprint (aluminium frame) because he said it was the fastest, stiffest frame he had tried and the weight difference was almost nothing. The worlds fastest bike (record holder) is still made of metal. 😎
I have a Serotta Legend TI and it could pass for new and it was new in 2005..... I wasn't the original owner though, I've had it for a couple of years now and still looks the same as the day I got it.
@@hal9058 I've heard that some makers were better than others at the quality/durability of their welds. That may still continue today. I've heard of some Serotta TI frames with over 100,000 miles on them.
I finally reached my limit of constant spending for bikes and components that just did not last. I searched out the titanium frame builder here in the US based on the bikes and designs that appealed to me and it didn't matter what it cost. Fot he last 3 years I have been riding this custom titanium frame with titanium bars, stem, and seatpost. Aluminum wheels too. The bike rides so beautifully. And best of all, it will last me an eternity. It's light enough at 8 kg that if I did race I believe it would do just fine. Makes me kind of wish I would have chose this over a decade ago, but then we didn't have disc brake road bikes back then.
Pros ride in a team which is sponsored and therefore need to ride a certain bike brand. Well, that is not completely true now is it? Just look at Peter Sagan and participation in the Pierre Baguette team. An other thing: why doesn´t retired pros who are no longer sponsored by any brand still not ride titanium bikes or rim brakes for that matter? Don´t get me wrong I have nothing against titanium bikes and would love to own one. But the reason I want a titanium is not because I believe it´s better or faster than a carbon or alu bike. I just like the look of many of them, and I like the fact that there is no paint that get chipped or scratched. I also like that is practically indestructible. I have also heard many say they are really comfortable to ride, and if that is true I would love to experience that. You could argue that many carbon bikes are just as expensive or even more expensive than titanium bikes, but many are not and they also are much more available. If I want to buy a titanium bike I will have to buy it online without having the opportunity to test and experience it and first. You have to pretty invested enthusiast to get hold of a titanium bike, and it will be quite expensive. I truly believe that Pogacar would be able to win a GC on a titanium bike. He managed to win with rim brakes and disc brakes, and he even won with both brake systems using an electronic groupset. Wow! Or not wow. It´s about the rider, not the bike. The bike can of course help you and if two riders are very similar the best bike can certainly be decisive. An other thing: if a team like UAE or Ineos who both have quite a big budget, what is really stopping them from using titanium bikes if they really truly belive they are better than carbon? In a world of marginal gains I refuse to believe that it´s because of some far fetched conspiracy theory.
Good comment. As for if pros ride titanium after they retire, they do. If you do a little research you will find plenty who not only ride titanium but also act as brand ambassadors for titanium brands, like Tom Boonen for example. Also many Pro cyclists have their own bikes at home that they can’t ride while they are working. Because they go against the sponsor, a few Pros that I know of have Ti bikes in that home collection. But I think the point is that it’s not about what’s faster as I stated. It’s about profit, even if Ti bikes were “faster” they still wouldn’t use them because the point is to keep the sponsors happy and they make carbon bikes… because carbon is more profitable. That’s the real reason. 🙂👍🏻
@@reginaldscot165 Of course you will be able to find some pros who have a titanium bike in their collection, just like you also will find steel bikes. The majority though does not have a titanium bike. Doesn´t mean they´re bad, but it is a niche product. But why does retired pros still use electronic shifting and disc brakes if they don´t have to? Because they find it better and more convenient. When it comes to pro teams not using titanium bikes I find it really hard to believe that they would knowingly sacrifice better results (even one day race or GC wins) if they had chosen titanium bikes instead of carbon. Yes, sponsors are of course important, but not just as important for all teams. The UAE team could probably use frames made of diamonds if they really wanted to. And all the money Sky and Ineos has spent on marginal gains could easily cover going with titanium bikes instead of carbon if titanium frames would means saving money in the rest of the chain. I think choosing carbon probably makes everything easier, and for those teams which actually does care about a budget I would guess it´s also less expensive (though that is of course debatable - would they need as many frames/bikes during a season simply because less wear/tear/etc.?)
It's hard to shape and weld titanium into aerodynamic shapes. Carbon is easy to mold into any desired shape. Carbon fiber is generally lighter yet comparably as strong as titanium. Carbon fiber also absorbs vibrations well.
Hard but not impossible. Especially with the advent of 3D printing. It’s only lighter because strength and reliability have been sacrificed. That’s why carbon frames are nowhere near as strong as titanium frames. If you made the carbon thicker so it was as strong as titanium it would be heavier.
Sorry mate, but it seems that you have no idea how labor intensive is carbon manufacturing. I have some hands on experience working with fiberglass and carbon and every time it was a PITA. (Repairing my canoe and racing drone frames, reinforcing model airplane cockpits to whitsand rough landings, etc.) Unfortunately only Time has somewhat automated carbon bike frame manufacturing as they are weaving their tubes like socks, but other manufacurers are producing the frames like this: th-cam.com/video/AGamuoMNsEk/w-d-xo.html Time frame manufacturing: th-cam.com/video/tkqE8FxwWTU/w-d-xo.html
I have a friend who made his own kayaks and canoes, he was on the Olympic team. So yes that’s a lot of work. But that different from bike frame production in many important aspects.
Dude. Aero makes a massive difference. GCN showed the difference in time over a course with various generation Pinarellos. Titanium can’t be moulded into aero shapes easily like carbon can. You can 3D print a titanium frame but I wouldn’t trust it over a welded tubular frame.
So yes you just invalidated your argument because 3D printing is a thing. Also yes it’s difficult to shape Ti tubes but not impossible, the issue is profit! And finally you are over estimating the impact of a aerodynamic frame. It’s less than 2% of the total drag of rider and bike. Titanium has other advantages that would more than make up for that small loss and that’s assuming that the frame is totally not aerodynamic.
Your first mistake is assuming GCN have any journalistic integrity. All of their funding comes from not pissing off any of the bike manufacturers who send them free stuff to fawn over, so it's absolutely in their best interest to show results proving the latest product their sponsor is selling is the one to buy. If they changed their riding kit and tyres to period correct items along with each bike, the result would be more believable though, as tyre rolling resistance and clothing are both a lot more important for getting more speed per watt than the shape of the bike frame.
Spot on. Not only with framesets, but the whole industry is geared towards pushing short-lived products. It's a sad state of affairs, when cycling should be all about sustainability, which should mean longevity and human-powered riding (i.e. no electronic shifting).
Easier, but not impossible. Also do you know what the aero advantage is for a carbon aero frame? 😉 It’s almost nothing. The important part is you and your wheels, and that can be made aero on any bike. 🙂
Enjoyed your video! We have a friend who rides a titanium bike. He loves it. He had an aluminum and a carbon bike but the bit the dust through accidents. Where are you riding? I see palm trees and you're dressed for fall riding. Yup it's autumn in Canada now. I have four bikes from three decades including my new specialized carbon assist creo 2 e-bike. Bikes for all weather and road conditions, types of riding whether it's road, gravel or touring trips on a tandem. I'm an older gal who lives to ride. Be happy and ignore the critics!!! ❤
The arm sleeves are to protect me from the sun, I used to use sun cream but it comes off after an hour with all my sweat and it stains my jerseys and it also give you cancer? So now I just try to cover up. I’m on the island of Borneo. 🙂
Thank you. I’m using the BBB cooldown gloves. Code (BBW-56) But they aren’t anything special. I use them because they don’t have much padding (I don’t like thick gloves) and they are cheap. That’s about all I can say about them. 😅
Same reason why lightbulb companies intentionally produce bulbs that fail after a couple of years. You don't want to make something too durable or you'll dry up the cash flow.
Surprisingly, the reason for that was actually down to customer preferences and efficiency. A lightbulb that glows dull red will last forever (There's one that's been burning for over 100 years in a fire station in the US), but turn almost all the energy it uses into heat and produces light of a mostly red colour that most people don't like the look of. A bulb that produces strong white light will turn a lot more of the energy it uses into light (Still very little compared to fluorescent tubes, HID and LED lights, but they didn't exist at the time), and therefore will use less energy as well as being more pleasant to use over its life. With the only downside being the reduced life. At the time the light bulb conspiracy was in full swing, many power companies would swap blown bulbs for new ones for their customers for free, because that was still cheaper for them than building new power plants to deal with the power demands less efficient light bulbs would put on their infrastructure.
Pros ride what sponsors provide, sponsors have no interested in decades lasting bicycles, they're interested in plastic breaking toys, you need to replace every year.
No, everything can fail. Everything does fail. But, it’s about the likelihood of that happening. I’m getting comments from people who are still riding the same Ti bike from the 1990s. That’s not uncommon for titanium.
Me too! I did actually mention this in another video called “Pro cycling has a problem and I know how to fix it.” I basically call for no support cars and no bike replacements (unless damaged in a crash) for the entire season. 😃
Wow, I sure needed that advice. I have a Cervelo S5 with a self made 81 tooth single chainring, stronger made handlebar stem, changed the Di2 synchronized to electronic hub gears and redrilled the Hed serated rims from 24 spoke to 32 spoke (rims brakes). My Curve titanium bike has remote controlled ( with smallest being 10 tooth on) cluster and hydraulic disc brakes with single 78 tooth chainring. I've been brainwashed into believing the Cervelo was a better bike but whenever I am due to race my 47yo buddy up North Head or McCarrs hills I always take my Curve because it is nicer to ride even though it has a higher top gear. BTW I'm 75yo, first bike a steel Campagnolo handbuilt by John Bazelman and still love it , now not strong enough to snap the crank axles anymore. Oh and had to weld the derailleur hanger forward of the axle to prevent chain skipping over the top of the 11 tooth teeth .😊
Which litespeed would you recomend if I where to invest in a do it all for the rest of my life bike? 97% for Road, but also the possibility to do put on some gravel wheels down the line?
Humm, that’s a difficult question. Personally I’m reluctant to suggest something. Simply because I don’t know enough about what your intentions are or your ride conditions. For example I ride almost exclusively on road, but sometimes I will take a short cut down a gravel path. Just light gravel. I use a normal road bike with rim brakes and 23 mm tyres. I find that it is more than rideable on such a bike. So for me I would go with a real road bike, and also the added advantage of titanium is even on gravel it makes for a relatively comfortable ride. However if your tastes change or the gravel is heavy duty, or if you mean the three rides out of 10 will be completely on gravel for many kilometres. Then a gravel Bike is more suitable. However, a gravel a bike is not the best option for long distances on the road, it will be heavy and slow and you will be forced to buy disc breaks that a bit of a pain to maintain. By the sounds of it an “all road bike” is an option you might consider, it’s a road bike, with disc brakes, that can fit a wider tyre. So suitable for light to medium gravel riding. At Litespeed that would be the a T5 Disc, Cherohala or possibly the Flint. But if you ask me I’d just buy a road bike and A) just not do a lot of gravel. Or B) also buy a proper Gravel bike for days when I really want to do gravel. Or C) Buy an nice Ti road bike for 97% of the time and get a cheap steel or aluminium (second hand maybe) MTB for everything else, you can even get a 80/90s MTB and turn it into a pretty awesome Gravel bike as very little cost. If you are only going to spend 3% of your time on it I think this is a good option. 🙂👍🏻
I have an ultimate and a classic, call the guys in Chattanooga and they are very helpful at least from my experience plus they have some good sales from the emails.
I would go for a T-Lab X3. A gravel bike good enough for road racing. The bike can take up to 114kg rider, so bike packing or touring is not an issue. Very stable at high speed.
It's actually pretty simple really. Carbon fiber offers bicycle manufacturers a limitless amount of options and variables. You can literally make carbon fiber any shape you want to. Meaning you can try endless variations of frame shape and design based on whatever criteria you want. And as much as you may argue that titianium is a superior material, you're still constrained to the physical limitations of it. No such limits exist with carbon fiber. Thus, carbon fiber wins.
The reason is carbon cheaper and easier to manufacture. Yes Titanium is currently harder to shape. But not impossible, but that makes it expensive. And so the manufacturers prefer moulded plastic. However 3D printing has the potential to chalk that.
I absolutely agree with this evaluation. Since I bought a used 2016 Litespeed Ultimate, it's been my favourite bike of all the other bikes I've ever owned. This bike i'll keep, thats for sure.
I bought a Genesis Equalibrium 10 in 2010 to replace my old Aluminium bike and it has been a lovely bike to ride, not race. I also bought a Ti bike in 2018 and the ride feel is just as good as the Genesis Equalibrium 10 albeit a whole kilo lighter. I ride the Ti bike in the dry and the Genesis steelie in the wet with mudguards. Both rim brake bikes and I’m not interested in disc brake bike at all as good rim brake pads are perfectly adequate for me. The Ti bike was made by Mark Reilly. The welds are really neat and tidy and hopefully they won’t crack. Happy days.
I was riding Carbon. Had a 3rd hand Ti Litespeed and a new Steel Ritchey. The Carbon is now just a frame hanging up in the garage. I moved the Ti on when I stopped racing and just ride the ritchey now. The Ti and Steel are noticeably more comfortable and smooth rides. It would be interesting to see what ex-pros ride on once they retire.
I have a Litespeed from 1997 with Campy 9 and bought another Litespeed in 2021. Best bike out there and the frame lasts, wouldn’t buy carbon frame for anything. Reginald new viewer, where is the video from?
I recall that the pro team did use ti bikes a lot back in the 90s. De Rosa went to Litespeed to learn the technique of ti bike manufacturing. Eddy Merckx let Litespeed produce ti bikes for them. Richard Virenque had won many KOM on Litespeed ti bike. A cyclist won sprint finish in TDF on a Litespeed Ultimate ti bike.
Enjoyed your video and agree with so much. I've never owned nor rode a Ti Bicycle but possibly someday I will and look forward to it. Currently I ride an old steel Trek from the mid 80's as a training bike. Also ride a 34 year old (1990) carbon fiber Specialized Allez Epic that I train heavy, heavy on. Looks as new as the day I bought it and get many compliments on it. Most my miles are done on this bike. Competition Bicycle for triathlon is a S-Works SL6 set-up for Tri. I also have an aluminum bike which I rarely ride. I think many of your comments are wrong about carbon. Also, being a fabricator as part of my business tig welding I can assure you a Titanium Frame Bicycle can be turned out far quicker than a Carbon Bicycle. Yes, the Ti bike will need a skilled worker whereas most anyone can be trained to assemble a carbon bike. The amount of time to turn out a carbon bike far exceeds the time to rig up a custom Ti bike in a jig and weld. I do agree with the big corporations and marketing but if a Ti bike was indeed better, you'd see it in the pro ranks. That's just the way it works in all areas of Competition from Motorsports and on.
Oh noooo! This comment was going so well, until you basically made the silly comment about “if it was good it would be used by the Pros!” What a waste of time. 😩 You have no experience of titanium bikes but carbon is better? That’s like eating McDonald’s all your life and saying it’s better than a home made burger you have never tried. 😭
I really like what you said about carbon being worn out after a few years.. I am riding two aluminum bikes (allez sprint Gen 1 & 2), after switching from carbon. Gen 1 for traveling, Gen 2 sitting at home or for racing. Had to change the frame once because of unrepairable dent on the seat stay. Titanium on the other hand, would have been able to sustain the impact or if not, dent repairable. I think it would make sense for me to switch my travel bike for a Litespeed
Could not agree more, I purchased a new Reilly Titanium bike, handmade in Brighton by Reilly cycles two years ago to replace my Colnago carbon framed bike (which has now relegated to the turbo trainer), so much more comfortable, does not creak & groan on a rough road. Looks like the day I got it, not a mark on it. It also comes with a lifetime guarantee and a promise of a half price frame replacement in the event of a serious and unrepairable accident. It has rim brakes and cable gears, simple to maintain. The two carbon bikes I have owned (Colnago & Cannondale) always seemed a little fragile and easily marked.
I much prefer a metal frame. I like steel. I've never had a titanium bike. I do have an aluminum bike that I just picked up at a yard sale for $25 that was in nearly new condition but the owner mever rode it and it didn't shift right... because they damaged the rear shifter cable housing when they hung the bike on a hook in their garage. Other than that and needing air in the tires, it was in perfect condition, and after about $20 in parts and maintenance items, I ride it almost daily.
You can put a way bigger brand sticker on a big square carbon tube. It’s been 50 years since I raced. I was on the wait list to get a Teledyne TI bike the first to come out on the market. They were slow in production and I never got mine. 30 years later I was still riding my steel race bike when my family bought me a Giant TCR. 20 years later I still ride the TCR. Off road I have a Santa Cruz super light 08 this bike got me hooked on disk brakes and suspension. My current favorite bikes are my German trekking bikes, a Cube and Focus both aluminum . They go anywhere and are fun to ride and I can take them on tour. Heavy like a German tank and built to last. I now like any bike I am riding. Just happy to be riding.
An excellent video. Absolutely correct. Carbon Fibre has really damaged the bike industry. Because of the moulds and ovens required to produce CF frames, their construction is out of reach for the traditional artisanal builder.The big companies like Trek and Specialised contrive changes to brakes and shifting that the ease of manipulation of CF permits. These are false problems whose origins are profit driven and mechanically flawed - as you brilliantly summed up in your video on disc brakes. Keep the faith, baby!
It's not titanium, but I'm about to resurrect my Columbus Max frame - I love that frame. I'm just getting back into riding, and I note a bunch of people are buying pro-spec gear, and then bitching about the cost. Anyway, you got a follow; good vid.
When I got into road touring, a friend who I started riding the tours with, convinced me finally to buy my 1st carbon frame; a Wilier S7. I love that bike, very comfortable. However I was so ameroused with it I bought a Centro Uno. After several years I really dislike Centro! A friend at work bought a used Lightspeed, in natural Ti finish. That bike was a size too large for me, however I fell in love with that ride. I then started looking up about Ti bikes. I want one! I should have gotten a Ti bike before all others. I'm a big heavy guy, so I get "isn't that frame going to crack?" remark. My knuckles don't get sore anymore. One day I'm getting that Lightspeed bike, oh yeah I lost 56 pounds & still losing, but I still don't look like a typical cyclist. I rode to work 22 miles round trip, 5 days a week - rain or shine. Easier than dealing with NYC traffic. Now retired, still try to ride everyday, just not the rain anymore. Reginald Scot here has me yearning for that Lightspeed!
You can put a way bigger brand sticker on a big square carbon tube. It’s been 50 years since I raced. I was on the wait list to get a Teledyne TI bike the first to come out on the market. They were slow in production and I never got mine. 30 years later I was still riding my steel race bike when my family bought me a Giant TCR. 20 years later I still ride the TCR. Off road I have a Santa Cruz super light 08 this bike got me hooked on disk brakes and suspension. My current favorite bikes are my German trekking bikes, a Cube and Focus both aluminum . They go anywhere and are fun to ride and I can take them on tour. Heavy like a German tank and built to last. I now like any bike I am ridinAnd g. Just happy to be riding.
I entirely agree with your point that the best product isn't always (or is rarely, to be honest) the one that wins the market. However I really doubt that you couldn't automate the production of titanium frames, it would probably be a very expensive initial investment, but after that you could much more quickly adjust a jig for different tube sizes or geometry than you can make a new mold. I also wouldn't say laying carbon requires no skill, they do have to lay just the right pieces of carbon in just the right place. But yeah I totally agree that it's much easier to make changes to a carbon bike's design to make it look like the latest new thing and get people to buy a new one, while a titanium or steel frame will always look like a titanium or steel frame. In my opinion that's a huge plus, because they stay looking good basically forever like you say.
They definitely could and I even posed the question to LS why they don’t? Basically they want to retain the traditional hand made feel of the bikes. But I worked in factory automation in the robotic welding for years and for sure they could. In fact I think they should, because it would reduce costs and increase the reliability of the welds. That could be passed onto the customer. I’m all for making titanium bikes Cheaper! ❤️ I don’t think it’s the same level of skill. Put it this way, laying carbon in a mould is like putting bits of tape down, if you make a mistake you just pull up the tape and move it. Then once the frame comes out the mould even if there is a mistake they just put a bit extra on it, or use a filler and sand it. After it’s painted you won’t notice. 🤷🏻♂️ We know this because when people cut up frames they find all the repairs and mistakes. As for Ti welding you can’t make a mistake because if you do you ruin the workpiece, if it’s the first weld you throw away 2 parts of the frame. If it’s the last weld you throw away the entire frame! 😅
nice video👍, there's an advantage of cycling people being into new things, that's second hand market, is full of treasures like really nice ring breaks bikes, nice ring breaks wheels. thanks to that I can ride on a nice one
The same old cliches. Carbon commercial, titanium passion. They made me pay too much money for my titanium bike, so now it's part of my identity and I'm shouting silly things on the internet about it. And I don't like other people making fun of my socks. "We titanium-people don't care what people think"? Get a grip and go do something interesting with your life.
Says the nobody making angry comments about bikes. 😂 Pay too much for my titanium bike? It was less expensive than the equivalent carbon bike and will last longer and is better value for money. Sounds like you realised you paid too much for your carbon bike. 😁
100% agree with you on titanium bikes. It's the master race of frame material. Carbon has some advantages, but its chief advantage is that it's a disposable bike that can be mass produced at scale and sold for outrageous profits. I am 100% confident that if all the pro tour riders switched to titanium frames, we would only see a negligible difference in performance. Probably not even statistically significant.
i ride an old Bridgestone MB frame for my around the town. It is not as light as some things but i only run about 155 on a 6 foot frame so I don't put to much stress on anything. I like steel for its ability to provide a little flex and general comfort on a long ride. I have ridden an lot of aluminum frames and they are ok but just a little less pleasant. I may pickup a Ti bike or frame along the way and expect to like it just about the same a steel with added beni of not worrying as much about paint and corrosion.
I have back pain and started using recumbent bikes. Here in Brazil they are practically non-existent. So I needed to make my own. As I don't know how to weld, I decided to do it with composite materials. Carbon was an option, but after studying a little I decided to make it out of wood, laminating thin layers into solid hollow pieces. It was light enough for my use, aesthetically attractive and much, much more resistant to time and impacts than a carbon bike. In an accident, the bike fell off the support of the moving car, with no apparent damage. But in any specialized store I feel that pride from the more fanatical cyclists you mentioned. I've made 3 wooden bikes over the years. The current one is 10 years old now, I'm thinking about building a new one, just for the pleasure of creating something perfected by the experience I had with the first one. Something these plastic worshipers will never know what it is.
2002 Serotta Hors Catagorie with Campy SR12, Modolo Curvisima, SMP Full Carbon, EE Brakes & Mavic Kysrium is my primary ride since having it made, (I keep upgrading components). There are Dogmas from 04, 12 & 22 in the fleet, but, the custom made titanium bike is always dirty from the road.
I have a Van Nicholas Skeiron that I bought second hand. A 4 year old frame that i have no qualms buying 2nd hand without worrying about its condition from wear and tear. I don't have a bottomless pocket and prefer a good frame that will last me for years. I don't ride very fast and am thoroughly enjoying my ride on this bike. Fyi, i have a mechanical 105 groupset, so no worries about obsolescence.
to add to your comment on product longevity, i know a story about a german wheel lathe manufacturer that makes a product that is so good, that their product lasts for decades and eventually they were bought over by a Canadian company because they couldn't sell enough equipment to sustain the business. the new buyers "reduced" the product lifespan so that in a couple of years, the user will need to buy new equipment.
Your story checks out. It’s standard practice nowadays, I don’t know when this started happening but it feels like it became the norm sometime in the 1990s? As an example my father bought our first Panasonic microwave in 1988. When I left the UK in 2016 he was still using the same microwave. Since I set up my own home I have had 3 microwaves in 5 years. I know want the problem is with the 2 broken ones but parts are difficult to get here. 🤷🏻♂️
Like our parents are so fond of saying ... Things nowadays sure don't last as long as they use to 😜. Maybe I'm old school, but a metal bike feels a lot more reassuring compared to carbon. Having said that, carbon wheels, carbon forks seems to be still ok. But they are somewhat relatively cheaper to replace compared to a high end carbon frame.
The later German tanks were also notoriously unreliable, especially the transmissions. Some were so heavy that only a tank of similar size could recover them if they were damaged or broke down . The Russian T34 had a superb 2 stroke diesel engine.
@hellebarde1450 these weren't "prisoners of war" they were civilians from occupied territory who were worked to death who bravely sabotaged production at the risk of instant execution.. Can you give examples of similar scenarios from the allied side ?
That’s true. They had grand ambitions and the skills but didn’t have the money or resources to complete anything to a reliable standard. Also it’s hard to make reliable products when someone is bombing your factory night and day. 😅
I do not know why TH-cam suggested your video. It's more than 5 years someone stole my Kona aluminium bike. I only have 2 little bikes for my children. Although I was impressed by your solid arguments. Behind every big popular industry, especially in broadcasting sports there are huge marketing teams who try to manipulate the market, the audience and our brains. Your example with premium quality and specs Panzers and Tigers vs cheap but easily produced T-34s, ISs and Shermans is great. There are many other examples out there for PCs, Home Cinema, Audio, IT. Superior technology is not always the winner. The one that has more peer pressure and media coverage, leverage and distribution channels does.
@@reginaldscot165 I enjoy people who have a wider knowledge and wider spectrum on topics they are talking about. I forgot to highlight your V brakes arguments about the pros who you use them despite the pressure from their marketers. V brakes for the most part are better for cheaper price and less maintenance. Marketers try to convince people that is obsolete technology and the premium and fancy way is the disk brakes. They try to use tactics like iPhone marketers use (ie with blue and green messages) in order to alienate V brakes users as inferior class, low budget, underdog, less sexy or wealthy people. You are not the only one who talks about it but I think the popular opinion most of the time and as regards technical topics is useless. People choose what is convenient and mostly what they are told to buy, not the best for their needs. Peer pressure is real! Mimicking is an instinct we got from apes. I think we should start to discard this with some logical thinking.
I've a new sub and kept catching myself wondering why the cars, roads, curbs you ride look familar, is that Brunei? reminds me so much of Penang Island... btw have you ever ridden in say Bangkok or Chiang Mai, crazy how nice the roads are there, are the roads good quite good in Brunei/Malaysian Borneo? Never been.
Honestly the drivers in Thailand scared the 💩 out of me! The roads could be made of gold, but you couldn’t pay me to ride on them. 😅 The world’s best looking (IMO) women are there however… unfortunately some of them are men! 🥺 The roads here are ok, some good some bad, some of the drivers are idiots but mostly people are nice to you. 100% better than Malaysia that’s for sure. 😄 Thank you for the comment! Safe riding!
Case in point: Andreas Kirschner's Ti frame manufacturer Falkenjagd 3D-printed an entire Ti bike frame seamlessly in one piece as a proof-of-concept for their Aristos series. Set him back a mere 40 000 Euro in production cost...
Armstrong won one of the TDF stages on a titanium Lightspeed TT bike. And the winning TDF bikes by Pinnarello in 2006 or 2007 were magnesium. Super cheap and ride great. I ride a magnesium Vaast and it’s incredible.
@@reginaldscot165 Check out Vaast. Almost as light as carbon fiber, almost as cheap as aluminum. And magnesium has vibration dampening properties. Rides like a dream.
My local bike shop has a Lynksey titanium road bike with full 105 for £999.00 right now. People dont get it. I spent 26 years in advertising, I work for the NHS now but I see through the hype. Got a Sabbath Silk Route for £1600 that's a full TI touring bike and a Ribble endurance TI, oh and a Spa Elan 2 TI. Don't need another bike before the grave, never ridden carbon, never seen the point.
I've been riding steel since the the early 70's and I'm still riding steel today, friction shifting, rim brakes and tubular tires along with clips and straps! The great thing about steel bikes you don't have to be as careful as like riding HIGH BUCK carbon rigs you can push them hard, grind them up and you ride them like this for years and years, I've been in several good crashes which involved many trips to the emergency room through all this I have yet to break a frame nor ending up with bent forks, I'm also a great wheel builder to where I used to build wheel sets for other bicycle shops, so I had several different sets of wheel sets for different ride and road conditions, and with as many crashes that I've through I've yet to have a any type of wheel failures. I'll have a late 90's LITESPEED Ti frameset, some time in the near future it will be back on the road once again. As for TITANIUM bikes being ridden by Professional cyclist, in the 70's Luis Ocana rode a TITANIUM Speedwell that was badged as a MOTOBECANE.
@@reginaldscot165 I fatigued snapped my steel Campagnolo crossbar so I just shaped sleeved it and brazed the longitudinal part of shaped sleeve to the crossbar.
![[MV] A leap of faith...ความเชื่อใจครั้งสุดท้าย (From "Petrichor the series")](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/U1piZH2CNXA/mqdefault.jpg)
People who buy bicycles because they see them in the Tour de France… often don’t realize these bikes sacrifice reliability for performance. And that works well for them, because they have the luxury of having a professional mechanic inspect and repair their bicycle after every ride (and sometimes during a ride!)
Frame crack? No worries, a new one will magically be swapped in for you overnight.
I ride a steel bike because I don’t want to have to worry about a sudden catastrophic failure.
Yes, monkey see monkey do. They don’t think. 🤷🏻♂️
But the expensive brands allow for limited lifetime warranty to replace a brike frame if it breaks. Same with ENVE.
I ride race-level carbon fiber bikes and have had zero issues with reliability. My oldest one is 12 years old and still going strong. I have a friend who's carbon fiber Trek is over 20 years old and still looks and rides great. Carbon fiber construction is so well optimized now that reliability is not an issue, as long as you buy a bike from a reputable manufacturer.
I am too frugal for a titanium or a carbon bike. I ride with steel like a peasant. But I consume a lot of TH-cam content. Carbon construction is fascinating. Leaps have been made, but they're not visible. Carbon is literally fabric and resin. There are different types of fabric. You can mold these fabrics in different directions and different thicknesses. Some areas can be thicker or thinner depending on the desired characteristics. Some fabrics are better for joints, others are better for straight tubes. Carbon can take any shape, and it's easy to work with. You can see how cheaper brands without expertise will likely produce heavier, less comfortable, more fragile frames compared to the leading brands. There is so much room to innovate. However, it's all very experimental. The consumer is a guinea pig. My point is: it's easy to pick a side and say carbon = bad. In hindsight, the cycling industry is innovating too fast and too much.
In the early 90s I bought a used Celo Europa frame/fork made out of Columbus SL. Rode it hard for a year or so and one day was doing group interval sprint training and noticed the handling seemed a little off. Figured it was a wheel going out of true or something. Couple more hard sprints and cool-downs and decided to look closer. Turns out one of the fork crowns had developed a serious crack just below the lug nearly all the way across. The frame/fork had been repainted (and looked awesome) so was most likely a hairline fracture the previous owner hadn't noticed from a crash or something that my riding exacerbated. And you could only tell there was any issue during complete in-the-drops and out-of-the-saddle effort. So I stopped interval training for the day and rode the 5-6 miles back to the shop and bought a new chrome SL fork, which ended up looking cooler anyway. Loved getting to keep all my teeth that day. Carbon is nice and light but steel is far more confidence-inspiring.
In 2012 I had a ti frame, built by Jim Kish ( Kish Titanium), built up with a 10 speed mechanical groupset and all the parts I wanted. It is still my primary bike and looks and feels the same now as the day it was delivered, which is to say like new. Since then, I've watched as the bike industry has gone mad and cyclists eat it up. So glad I never bought in to the scam.
We few, we happy few, we band of titanium brothers. 😎👍🏻
My 2011 carbon frame has a crack…bike shop tekkie found it. A lot happier than me finding it on a ride. I loved my steel Cinelli in the 1970s. Having a titanium would be a dream
You’re absolutely correct. It’s all capitalist marketing hype. Problem is most of the sheeple don’t realise it. I must be in a very small minority of people who having bought into the scam when I first started riding in a group am still using my two 14 year old carbon bikes with mechanical group-sets and rim brakes. As Reg pointed out in this video, as long as you maintain the carbon frames everything should be good. As I approach 70, I doubt whether I’ll upgrade to the latest carbon bikes however I am very tempted to go get me a nice titanium bike to lat me the rest of my days.
Wise words, I agree.
I have both a titanium Moots and a Cervelo soloist. Horses for courses. Love them both but different tools. Just ride and enjoy yourself. Wheels and tires matter a lot more
I’d rather be on a good frame and cheap wheels than expensive wheels and a cheap frame. 😉
@@reginaldscot165 Good point. You can upgrade the wheels later on a lot easier than you can upgrade the frame,
@@reginaldscot165 I prefer a cheap frame and cheap wheels. 😂😂😂😂😂
Horses for corses? We’re talking about road bikes, right? Unless you’re riding on a cobblestone road what are you talking about?
@MustafaHussein-c9r th-cam.com/video/vcOKfTnRIII/w-d-xo.html
I started to ride a titanium Merlin in 1990. Tom Kellogg designed the Merlin frame. Tom built me a custom titanium Spectrum in about 2001. I kept my Ti Bikes for many years and then gave them to friends. These frames will live on and still produce great rides for many more years.
I hope they do! 🙂👍🏻
you have some very lucky friends! TK is the best
Because they need to hide batteries & motors in the frames.
Lol 😂
need large bb shells
hahaha
You're not wrong.
😄😄😄😄😄
Pros are advertising billboards, they advert companies via clothes and equipment. Some people buy bikes with the false belief they will go as fast as a pro because the pro rode the same kind of bike.
If companies have spent a lot of money on moulds and factory set up for carbon then they are not going to reinvest in a titanium factory set up when carbon is selling well.
True 👍🏻
That was the message of the video.
"If companies have spent a lot of money on moulds and factory set up for carbon then they are not going to reinvest in a titanium factory set up when carbon is selling well."
They decided this BEFORE, not after. Carbon-fiber bikes can be made cheaply while even the worst titanium frame needs a skilled welder, even if he's in Russia welding up bikes from straight-gauge tubing intended for nuclear reactors like back-in-the-day. Ex-pros might buy a titanium bike to ride once they retire and don't get free ones anymore, but that kind of marketing doesn't move the units the big-brands need. Add the fact that carbon-fiber bikes can much more easily meet the 6.8 kg and "Bob's your uncle" as they say.
Gravel bike people are cool. Many look like they just crawled out of a dumpster. I believe that the gravel bike and alt bike scene is growing so fast is the same reason mountain biking exploded in the 90s, because road bike people are such a turnoff. I'm being polite by using the word turnoff, I can think of better worlds to describe them, but won't.
@@CrapKerouacI don't get the hate towards roadies. I am a roadie, but i also ride mtb, gravel, and believe it or not, an upright bike. Yet people only hate me when i ride my roadbike for some reason
And of course in 1999 Lance Armstrong won a time trial stage in the TDF on a Litespeed painted to look like a Trek. Can't do that stuff anymore because they make carbon fibre frames look so distinctive nowadays.
Yep. Up until the 1990's when they were still on steel frames, the top pros had their bikes built by master craftsmen and then painted them up to match the sponsor bikes.
That’s correct. It was a Litespeed Blade. Very aerodynamic looking bike. 👍🏻🙂
Yes I remember that,very distinctive shape knew it was not a Trek. There were other teams using ti bikes,rebranded or repainted.
But, importantly, it was not about the bike.
As I recall Robbie McKewen won one of his TdF green jersey’s on a Litespeed Vortex….
Beta vs VHS is a comparison that’s lost on most people these days, but Beta was the superior product, VHS took the market.
I literally mentioned that very example in my video but cut it out in the edit! 😂 Though it was something most people nowadays wouldn’t know about. 😅
It provided better videos, but lost out on price and availability. VHS (developed by JVC) was opened for use by other electronic manufacturers, while Sony decided that they could charge a premium price for their product. People are still sensitive to price and availability, even for bicycles.
Reynolds quit making the 6/4 Ti tubing back in 2006 or 2007, and that led to the use of 3/2.5 Ti. I would argue that the 6/4 is markedly better for use in bicycle frames. And a Ti frame will always weigh more, but I have a 2000 Litespeed Tanasi that I still use. I don't think many 24 year-old carbon frames are still in use.
watch?v=_oJs8-I9WtA maybe there was actually not much of a difference, but it was a marketing argument, which is funny considering the points made in the bike video % )
“Worse is better”. Classic essay.
@@dangurtler7177XXX used VHS...there you have it.
In my opinion uci is just a club to protect industry. Just like fia is for formula 1!
Probably true to some extent. 🙂👍🏻
I wish there was a bike company that just went out of their way to sell bikes that weren't UCI legal in any way. Find every single watt saving or speed advantage that was cut by the UCI and put all that stuff back onto a bike that's just for people who want to go fast AF and aren't trying to compete.
Just like the FiA really only cares about F1, and not other series, the UCI are the same for Road racing; and don't do enough for MTB, CX and other disciplines......
And that is exactly why i stopped watching al their races !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@@Thezuule1 One thing to keep in mind is that a lot of the changes that made bikes faster also make them a lot harder and more dangerous to use. The peak version of this are designs like the fully faired in human powered vehicles that can hit 80 km/h on the flat with the right rider or the face down fully prone position time trial bikes to minimise frontal area for drag reduction.
As much as I hate to say it (Because the UCI very much are a corrupt organisation to levels that easily match FIFA and the IOC on pure love of money over anything to do with improving the sports they're involved with) some of the regulations on bike layout are there to stop the industry making products that win races but that no sane person would choose to buy and use for safety reasons. It's why the human powered vehicle and recumbent bike types have very little following in cycling circles. However dangerous it is to try to interact with traffic on a normal bike, a bike where everything is well below the window level of every car and it's impossible to lift wheels to hop over road debris, potholes and so on will be many times more dangerous.
The UCI's rule about parts on pro bikes being required to be available to the public for purchase within a certain time of them being used in competition helps here too, though I have no confidence at all that the average customer actually gets anything that does much more than look the part as the mass produced parts tend to bypass most of the quality control the pro parts get for cost reasons, especially if it's made from carbon fibre.
I own a 1998 Litespeed Ultimate that rides like day 1. I'm pretty sure someone will be riding it long after I'm gone.
A bike you can pass on to the next generation. ❤️🙂 Great comment! Safe riding!
I have a 2002 Tuscany with campy record. The tubes and welding are just art work. The frame looks like brand new. Best bike ever, till my 2022BMC Roadmachine. Love em both .
I have a 1999 Litespeed Ultimate. I was hit by a car back in 2020. Although the mostly all the components were destroyed the frame survived with losing any trueness. The Klein carbon fork was replaced with a Ritchey carbon fork. Rim brakes are still Campy Record. You are probably correct in that one of my boys will inherit it when I am pushing up daisies.
Hello from Singapore.
1999 Litespeed Classic here. :)
'02 LeMond Victoire. Steel may be real, but Ti is fly...
I started getting into roadbikes in my teens. After having 2 cars clip me, I switched to MTBs in the early 90s, before suspension, disk brakes, electric shifting, etc. A couple of months ago, I decided to do a bit of roadbiking again. I hadn't been paying attention to the advancements in road bikes, they looked pretty much the same as they did 20 years ago as opposed to MTBs that have had huge advancements every year. So, I picked up an old Cannondale r1000 with a Dura-ace 7700 groupset for $200 US. It's great! I love it, it does the job. However, as I've started to educate myself a bit more, it's amazing how wrong I was about the changes in roadbikes. Even though the newer road bikes are incredible, I have no problems keeping up with the local riding groups. I say, ride what makes you happy, and keeps you wanting to ride.
Wow $200!
@reginaldscot165 Yes, I definitely got lucky. The gentleman had stopped Road biking a few years ago, the bike had been sitting. He looked very financially well-off, I think selling it quickly was more important to him than dealing with a bunch of people for an extra couple hundred dollars.
Some companies are starting to experiment with 3d printed titanium to make more distinctive shapes
I know, I’m interested to see if anything comes of it? 🙂
In full agreement with the content of the video.
A few years ago I read an article by someone in the cycling industry that a well known bicycle manufacturer were getting their frames made in China for 200 dollars each and sold in Europe and North America for 5000. $ . That was in regards to carbon .
Now in the area of steel frames ,which you can also include titanium if you can’t complete the frame build within 40hrs , you’ve practically lost any profit.
I ve. always compared a carbon bike to a disposable lighter.
Yes, they are built as throw away items. It’s really something that shouldn’t be happening. 🙈
Thank you. Great to have your input as always! 🙏🏻
Only a few brands like Look and Time produce their carbon frames in their own workshops
Excellent commentary. I have a Merlin TI from 1990 and it still rides like new. Have a Lynskey Helix road, and a Pro GR gravel. I love my TI, have tried Carbon, but always go back to TI.
Merlin 😍 Sounds like an excellent collection of bikes. 👍🏻🙂
another reason for the lack of titanium frames in the peloton is that the pros don't need to give a tinker's cuss how long the bike will last, a huge factor in why many people like titanium as you mentioned. however, a pro could use a fresh frame every stage of the TDF.
if the UCI allowed it, each bike could be designed to last exactly one stage, disintegrating 5 metres past the finish. I remember it was someone like chapman or murray talking about formula one engines, saying that the ideal engine life was one that blew up on the second time you started it (long before the modern engine component limits that are now imposed).
Ha ha great comment. I’m imagining a rider who was late across the line and his bike is starting to fall apart as he approaches the finish! 😂
@@reginaldscot165 every stage just a trail of delaminated carbon fibre littering its course!
@@reginaldscot165 you don't have to imagine it - there's a rider everyday in every race 10-60km to go having to replace their POS bike with SRAM!
Today is the 28th anniversary of the first and only new bike I ever bought:my beautiful and rare Dawes with reynolds 531 competition tubes🤗🥳
Excellent choice 😎👌🏻 Happy cycling. 👍🏻
My PX -10 is 47 years old now. It still rides great, new drive train and wheels etc. 😊 Rock your ride!
LiteSpeed T5 owner here. Rim brakes. External cabling. It looks as beautiful today as when I bought it...especially those gorgeous welds. 😍 It's a DIY maintenance dream, which is very important to me.
Yes wonderful choice ❤️
I started off years ago(age 9, now 57) on steel frames(Schwinn/Jamis/Bianchi/Lemond) when I made the jump from a Lemond Zurich(Reynold 853) to my first titanium bike a 2002 Litespeed Arenberg. Last year I purchased a Litespeed Ultimate rim brake version with DT Swiss PR1400 Dicut OXIC wheels and not once did I actually give a carbon frame a second thought. I look at the comparison of frame materials from a manufacturers point of view, carbon frames are high volume/extremely high yield and this makes them very attractive for mass marketing. Titanium is low volume/high yield, though I am starting to see more boutique brands testing the niche titanium market, as my hypothesis on carbon frames may be starting to plateau(are the manufacturers looking for the next marketing products?), now off my soap box.
Off subject, While I'm not opposed to disc brakes and prefer rim brakes, I realize rim brakes days are numbered. I'm now in the market for an endurance, longer distance bike and I'm highly tempted to replace my 2002 Litespeed Arenberg with a 2024 Litespeed Arenberg(12sp 105 mechanical and hydraulic disc brakes, but most importantly a much more age friendly relaxed riding position).
You Sir made an excellent decision… and then kept making excellent decisions! That bike sounds perfect, I love DT Swiss wheels and the OXIC is about the best aluminium wheel available.
Well the days of rim might be numbered, but unless you want to do gravel/off road Disc simply isn’t needed.
Perhaps custom might be an option for the “perfect” bike for your needs?
All the best and safe riding! 🙂👍🏻
I’ve been riding my Lightspeed Arenberg in club rides and tours for 25 years. Not tired of it yet and have worn out 2Campy Groupos. Great ride on 25mm Continental 5000.
Dual pivot rim brakes! Reliable, easy to service, lighter in weight. It's kinda of like the threadless headset. It save manufacturers money, no impact on performance.
Watching you ride on a highway like that is absolutely terrifying. You wouldn't catch me dead anywhere near a road like that.
Not much choice here, any nice road you want to get to requires riding on bigger roads.
At least use a rearview mirror
I was hit by car at the age of 65 (routinely rode 70+- miles/week on a MTB - for me, it's about endurance and fitness, not speed) - TBI + spinal fusion surgery, 3 years in recovery. I'm finally back to riding those distances again, though no more metro riding. Law of averages: the more time spent on the asphalt, the higher the likelihood you'll be hit. It's not if you'll get hit, it's when. 😉
@@MrBazsi888--- what safety advantage does using a rearview mirror give you? No experienced cyclist I know uses a rearview mirror. Not one.
I have a litespeed firenze and a bianchi xr4. I ride my litespeed way more. Its more comfortable, feels stronger and don't have to worry about it being damaged easily. The xr4 is very nice and it does feel a bit faster. Could be the wheels are 50mm on it compared to 38mm on the litespeed or the lighter weight of the bike. I sure have to worry way more about wear and tear on the bianchi. At the end of the day I enjoy both for what they offer and know the litespeed will outlive the bianchi and perhaps even me:).
UPDATE. I ran over a construction sized staple/nail and by the time I realized I had a flat it had dug a scratch through all 3 layer's of paint on the inside of the chainstay on the xr4:(.
Lovely comment! Safe travels!
I have a Litespeed and a Bianchi as well,except my Bianchi is steel which is heavier but still rides like new,a sweet ride.
CF makes any shape directional, has superior weight/strenght ratio. It makes it best material for bikes - especially for me, as I love to ride in mountains, and I produce barely 100W average. My first passo Stelvio I've done on 15.5 kilo clunker on steel frame, steel chainrings, crankset and rims - it took me 4 hours when I was 31, my last took me 2.5 hrs on 5.5kilo Scott Addict Ltd. when I was 61. Of course there is nothing for free - You cannot treat your composite with hammer, but hey - I've got almost 100 000km on my 2007 Addict and it's still ticking, while my previous, almost twice heavier alu frame I broke a year after purchase, just riding uphill on Tenerife. If you comparing bike with tanks I'll dare to compare it to free flying models I was making them for decades for competitive sport. When we started making them of CF ( first stolen from Soviet military complex ), we brought them to superior competitive level. I can further explain Ti weaknesses, or Alu PA9 ( 7075 ) weak points, or 6061. I machine Ti and those alloys especially for bike parts nowadays. In the past for very demanding, extremelly lightweight, strong, still possibly stiffest flying models. When most problems we sorted out by modern composites, especially CF, to level where propulsion had to be cut by 30%, because models starded flying beyond airfield. 😄
Well you can make shapes with Ti or aluminium, especially now we have 3D printing. As for “strength to weight” Ti bikes are many times stronger than carbon, if we wanted them to be as fragile as carbon they would be lighter. But who wants Ti bike you can snap? Interesting that another TH-cam channel did a test between a Ti bike and a carbon bike and the Ti bike climbed up a mountain faster every time even though is was slightly heavier… 😉
Carbon isn't going to make a 100 watt rider noticeably faster, lol. You just got stronger.
Good video and I agree with you, the relentless pushing of product is the reason we don't see ti frames in many cycling disciplines where they may well be more suitable - or steel and aluminium for that matter. "Race Sunday sell Monday".
I do think "development" does occur at a faster rate as a consequence and, regardless of where one feels peak bike is, it probably wouldn't of got there if we didn't live in such a profligate world. Who wants to drive a trabbie when a VW golf is available?
Incidentally I, as a rider for over 30yrs, was seriously looking at titanium a few years back. I didn't go there in the end but do know two cyclists who did, both had cracked frames - warrantied obviously - and both thought it was a for life purchase.
I'm also friendly with the owner of a very long standing and well regarded lbs who sells and services high end bikes. He, over the years, has seen lots of cracked ti frames, even more ali frames and more again failed carbon.
Seems only steel, death and taxes are forever - I know...steel fails too.
Yes nothings is truly “forever” and everything “can” fail. At the end of the day it’s a calculated risk where we spend the money. But the odds are slightly in your favour with say and US made Ti frame or a British/Italian made Steel frame in my opinion. 😊
All the best and safe riding! ❤️
Steel means lifetime bike, bar a bad accident.
I purchased a specialized tarmac frame, the carbon s works version, in 2008. It had been used and ridden everyday and was third hand. The frame was cracked, but I got a local boat builder to fix it up and he said that for an 20 extra grams it was stronger than new. He explained that as long as the frame was not stressed above tolerances it would last forever. The bike transformed my racing at the time and I still use it on my indoor trainer.
While I am considering a titanium frame for mountain biking and bike packing, I am not sure if I agree with all aspects of your video.
I think if titanium had advantages over carbon, the pros would use it. No question. The teams look for every advantage.
For recreational riders like ourselves I can see many advantages of having a titanium bike.
I love disk brakes and would never go back, although rim brakes were lighter than the brand new discs, I doubt that is the case now
Technology such as through axils is annoying but look at the advantages.
I could alao never go back to cable gears for normal cycling and racing
I did explain it all in the video. You still said exactly the same thing… 😅 “but if titanium was better the pros would be using it.” Nope, that’s the point. And “the pro teams look for every advantage.” Of that were true they would still be running tubular tyres with latex tubes that have been proven time and again to be faster than anything else. The pros often ride kit they don’t like and don’t work well, the famous “fu*king SRAM!” Screamed by a pro rider at his electronic group set comes to mind.
You're definitely right about the safety of disk brakes. Especially in bad weather. But there's a maintenance problem and cost involved in buying new tech. I still ride my time fluidity bike from 2013, I think. It barely fits 28mil tires. Has rim brakes and everything. But it also fits me well, and I can service it myself without having to buy a million different tools. Has no proprietary tech on it. Fits any seatpost or stem.
Plus, i just can't justify spending 5-6 or even 10 grand on a bicycle. It's just insane to me.
Lol this youtuber is a cult leader feeding into their cults
@@5gvaccinator343 I'm mostly riding cross/trekking/hybrid bikes (some call them fitness bikes now I think). One is 2015 aluminium frame and as high-tech as it goes for that time (Deore XT hollowtech, disc brakes), the other is 1999 Cr-Mo steel frame (also pretty good for its time). The only disadvantage I see with the more modern one is weight (~2kg heavier as it has a suspension fork), everything else is better on it (stiffer, better power transfer, better braking & general handling). The biggest problem with rim brakes for me is the wear of the rim that eventually needs to be replaced. With disc brakes changing the pads & rotors myself is not a problem at all. I leave the drivetrain work to a proffessional (with both bikes). I don't really see the maintenance problem you mentioned, could you elaborate?
If the professionals went back to riding steel frames the fans would not be able to afford to buy one. It’s not the steel itself that is expensive but the process of manufacturing the tubing; Reynolds, Columbus, Vitus etc etc. I have a Reynolds 753 frame (Cinelli Lugs) equipped with a Shimano Dura Ace 7800 groupset and it rides like a dream . Steel is Real.
Another brilliant and easy to understand video. I had a Colnago CT1 once, that frame was so light and comfortable, I regret selling it! 🙁
I bet you do! 😱 Thank you 🙏🏻
To each their own. But I like riding metal.
My last bike (alu) lasted 20 years - now it's on my turbo trainer. The trick is keeping a sharp eye out for corrosion.
I'd love a Ti disc brake bike, but I've got kids at uni. So the new bike is also alloy.
Not interested in carbon.
Cheers
Good on you! Hope your kids are doing well! 🙏🏻🙂
Enjoyed your thoughts, love your bar tape color! After several Al, several carbon, and several steel bikes just finished building up a Lynskey titanium with room for 32mm tires. Very happy with the ride and knowing it’s the bike for every condition.
That is awesome! 🙂
One good reason: Carbon bikes weigh less than ti bikes. Lighter bikes climb faster from what I have read.
Not a good reason. The weight limit is 6.8. The new disc carbon aero bikes struggle to hit 7kg nowadays! My titanium bike is 6.4kg at race weight, 6.5kg when I have all my lights on training tyres on it.
@@reginaldscot165 Okay, when I was looking into getting a Lynskey frame, it was nearly 4 lbs. My Focus Cayo Evo disc frame is under 900 grams, I was led to believe that a ti frame that light would be very flexy hence the weight penalty for a stiff (enough) ti frame! I would love to get a ti frame, but for my budget I find many more affordable carbon fiber frames available. As far as longevity, my buddies have been riding the same carbon frames for over 10 years and 100,000 miles. Thats a good lifespan in my opinion. I keep looking and I will try a ti frame when I find one at a good price! Thanks for the videos!
@@reginaldscot165 My Focus Cayo Evo disc frame is under 900 grams, Litespeed T1SL is 1150 grams. The team riders would need to use even lighter (possibly weaker) components to get down to UCI weight limit with a 1/2 lb+ heavier ti frame. If I had the budget I would get a ti frame today, but they choices are wider for affordable carbon frames. I keep looking and when I find a ti frame at the right price I will pull the trigger! Love the videos, keep them coming.
@@reginaldscot165what frame and fork do you have. I've never seen a titanium frame & fork as light as carbon.
The problem with the whole “Ti manufacturers do it for the love” premise is that as soon as ABG took over Litespeed in ‘99, they started selling LS-branded carbon frames. This strategy didn’t do well, I imagine because people associated LS with Ti. LS finally saw the light and played to their strength, which is titanium. They dumped CF because it wasn’t making money, not because of love for Ti
I see the same story under a different light. They were taken over by a big conglomerate who decided (independently of the staff of LS) to sell their good name in the world of titanium to make more profit by jumping on the carbon band wagon. (This kind of proves what I say about the relationship between carbon bikes and profit.) That doesn’t mean the guys on the shop floor have any less love for their work in titanium. (What you provide isn’t evidence of that.) And yes, they were unsuccessful (I’m told the carbon bikes were very good by people who own them) but that is because nobody wants to buy carbon from a famous titanium brand. (Thank goodness.) They could have rebranded but that would have been compounding the mistake. ABG has other brands selling in carbon still that do better anyway. So they did the smart thing and let LS get back to what they do best.
But the biggest flaw in your argument is you are just looking at LS, I’m talking about titanium brands in general and in general in the west they are small companies doing it for the passion. Most of the brands in Europe have less than 10 people working in the production side.
That awful Steven Seagal moment made this an S tier video.
I’m too old to even know if that’s a good or bad thing. 🤷🏻♂️
@@reginaldscot165 haha. I'm saying it was awesome!
Love the video. I am new to cycling and had an old Trek aluminum frame. Found a Greg Lemond Ti I picked up for a great price. It's 2 decades + old and still looks amazing. As you stated in the video, I immediately felt how much better it cornered.
Thank you and Welcome aboard! 😅 You have fast tracked to cycling heaven. 😎 Next time your friends are talking about new bikes you will just be upgrading your titanium frame. 😉
It costs $100-$500 to make a carbon frame.... by putting them under pros so the top races can be won on them those frame sell for $2000-$7000. Money talks.
100% true. 🫡
I'm extremely happy with my aluminium rim brake bike. It was absurdly cheap, so much so that the frame must've come almost for free, but it has a lifetime warranty, and is compliant in all the right places. Pure joy to ride. It even accommodates 30 mm tires easily. I even ride a 32 mm tire up front sometimes.
Nice, I’m selling a Titanium bike at the moment at a crazy discount. Basically at this price you would normally only get the frame! But I’m selling everything for that price, from the headset to the wheels, from the saddle to the group set. Hopefully someone is lucky/smart enough to buy it. 🤷🏻♂️😅
@reginaldscot165 Great. I'm sure you'll sell it easily. My bike was $1,000 with a full 105 groupset and Fulcrum Racing 6 wheels (which proved to be bombproof, even with their 18 spokes in the front and 20 in the rear). I swapped the wheels for carbon ones since then, but I can't feel or measure any difference apart from not ideal braking performance in the wet. But maybe I gained 5 watts at 35 km/h, they are slightly wider and look cooler so no huge regrets.
@@reginaldscot165 Are you the Reginald Scott I offered to help to take out a private prosecution against the Neanderthal who tried to murder you in Nottingham because you were holding him up in his hire car , and got off scot free in court?
Carbon is just better for racing, it is much lighter, stiffer, but can also have compliance engineered in, and there's much more flexibility for shaping it to be more aero.
My best bike is a Litespeed Archon (from the look of your top tube looks like you might have the same), and I like it, I bought it because I like the idea of it and I expect it will outlast me. I've raced on it, won races on it and as an amateur it's not going to be holding me back but honestly carbon is just better for racing. The Archon is very stiff (stiffer than usual for Ti) and I have more comfortable carbon.
I also rode a Ti Van Nicholas Amazon from Ireland to Indonesia (missed Brunei)... I like Ti. But I also have carbon bikes and it's easy to understand why no pro has raced on it since the 90s, just about any performance metric, carbon is better.
Carbon fiber is not stiffer than titanium. Carbon bends and breaks at about 740kg whereas titanium bends at around 2400kg. So which is stiffer?
Carbon is definitely the most convenient material for tailoring the local and overall stiffness and 'tube' shapes and tune the ride feel, but it could be done with other materials but would just cost a lot more to do so - you see a lot of hydroforming in Al frames these days but its significantly more difficult and consequently more expensive to do that with Ti.
Mine is the T1SL and it’s 2 gen above your frame. Yours is well sort after for super light builds online, but people do complain it lacks stiffness. That’s not a problem with the T1SL, in a online review they said it was in the top 10 stiffest bikes they had ever tried.
I think comfort is underrated as a performance metric, I feel so much better racing on Ti or steel than I do on carbon. I feel tired, and fatigued on carbon and full of energy on titanium. That feeling is worth more than a 2 Watt aero advantage you might get from a carbon bike. Everyone I know who switched to a modern LS would never go back, even people who race. My friend bought a brand new TCR advanced, he tried my T1SL 1 time to see what it was about. The next week he put his TCR up for sale and bought a T1SL. 😆
@@Dunning_Kruger_Is__On_TH-cam there's more to the problem than what you're suggesting. The shape of objects massively alters the stiffness or compliance of the overall thing. A flat sheet of a material and a triangular frame of the same material have entirely different bending points despite being the exact same material.
@@Dunning_Kruger_Is__On_TH-cam If you understand mechanics it will be enough to say CF makes any possible shape directional, and has superior weight/strenght ratio. If you love to ride in mountains you love it lightweight.
interesting. for longevity and reliability, do you think aluminum frame is the next best after Ti? Or do carbon come before al?
Go see my video on “the worlds best performance road bike” that has a detailed ranking on all materials. 🙂👍🏻
As someone who owns steel, aluminum, titanium and carbon bikes, I have to say that I've never heard a bigger crock of nonsense and specious reasoning (thank you Lisa Simpson for the perfect term). The only advantage of titanium over carbon as a frame material is long-term durability, period. It's a wonderful material and properly designed and built Ti bikes ride beautifully. I love mine, too! However, I don't feel the need to justify riding Ti by making up a bunch of ridiculous crap to disparage carbon fiber bikes. I fear that Reginald "doth protest too much" and in his religious zeal, likely turns people off toward Ti bikes. I honestly had a tough time sitting through the entire video.
The truth is that carbon fiber is lighter per unit of strength/stiffness, its ride characteristics are essentially infinitely adjustable by varying the layup, and it can be built in shapes that are simply not possible in Ti tube-built frame, though this latter advantage is changing to a limited degree due to 3D printed Ti frame components. Complete 3D printed, aero Ti frames are technically available, but are largely unaffordable. I haven't ridden one - few people have - and I wonder if the ride quality and weight suffer compared to Ti tube frames and carbon fiber frames.
If you're looking for a lifetime frame, Ti is absolutely the best material. As long as you can get components to fit it and you don't drive your car over it, you'll likely never need to buy another bike. However, if you're looking for the pinnacle of performance, carbon fiber is it, at least for now.
As for rim vs. disk brakes, on the road I only ride rim brakes - including on my carbon fiber bikes - because they're light, easy to maintain and provide all the braking power and modulation I need. Off-road, I only use disk brakes as they are superior for variable conditions (dust, rain, mud, snow, ice) and extreme downhill grades. I choose the appropriate tool for the job.
Any bike frame material is infinitely adjustable. You know that you can mix metals right? You know you can adjust wall thickness right? You know you can change tube shapes right? The fact you think carbon is somehow unique in that aspect shows your surface level understanding of this topic. You probably got all your information from GCN or the like. You got your vocabulary from a cartoon so I don’t think it’s unreasonable to assume that.
Also you are basically saying I’m wrong and that profit in big business plays absolutely no role in there decision on product material choices? Who sounds more ridiculous now?
Go look at even the military, they have an almost unlimited budget and yet they still often choose the cheaper option over the technology that is actually proven to be better. Money talks, the rest is marketing.
Love this video. I’ve been riding a titanium Serotta CTi since 1999. On my third drive train. So glad I’ve resisted the switch…
Excellent 👍🏻
For such unacceptably logical arguments I have no other option but
subscribed.
Keep this up, this sport needs more critique such as this.
Thank you kindly! I will do my best. 🙂👍🏻
Riding a 2018 Litespeed T2 as my do-everything commuter and love it. Timeless looks, no paint, no corrosion & light. Components can be upgraded as needs/desires permit.
Perfect bike. 👍🏻❤️
i have a 32yo road racing bike and its getting impossible to replace broken or worn parts. the bike industry deliberately introduces interdependent parts all the time. it's only a matter of time before yours is too obsolete from this to even ride
@@geoffreyanderson4719 You bought the wrong bike 32 years ago. I have a 45 year old Reynold 531 steel frame, it's tatty, light and rides really nice. apart from the frame (and the Brooks saddle), every other component has been worn out and replaced and I can still buy everything I need for it.
Planned obsolesence is the scourge of the capitalist system and ultimately humanity. Look at the plethora of bottom bracket designs that really don't improve that much on the square taper but do mean that you have to go back to the manufacturer when they start creaking and can destroy a frame if not carefully maintained. Whose interest is this 'technological improvement' in ?
Problem with Ti is if ain't welded oxygen free, it can crack. And then it's a warranty job or an expensive repair. I'd never buy a s/h titanium frame for that reason: Often a lifetime guarantee for the buyer, but that's lost if the frame is passed on. Personally I'd still just go 853 or 953 or their Columbus equivalents.
Well, yes, if something isn’t made properly it can be a problem. But the same can be said for almost any product. 😉
THe problem with carbon is either oxygen is present or not it will crack eventually.. so other than Ti, i would go steel
You know, if the welds on bridges are not oxygen free, the welds will crack...shielding gas when welding is a basic principle.
This vid has many good points, but there are also some fallacies.
First, a ti frame absolutely can and does show wear itself over time. I used to ride a Serotta Legend ti and that frame showed all sorts of scratches and marks from road debris kick up in under a year. Had a beadblast finished Eriksen, and that frame showed all kinds of marks in under one year. Many ti frames are beadblasted or have a brushed finish and both those finishes will absolutely show markings from cable rub, chain suck, shoe heel rub on the chainstays, etc... and it will not take long for that type of wear to show up. Sorry, but I have many friends, who regularly ride ti frames from Moots, DeSalvo, Firefly, etc.... and literally every single one of their bikes shows wear in under a year if they are riding regularly. And it is wear that is quite easy to see.
Second, a carbon fiber frame is actually easier and cheaper to repair than a ti frame. Go crack a ti chainstay and try to get that repaired? Good luck with that. If you can actually find someone that will do it, I'll guarantee you it will be a very costly repair. Crack a CF chainstay, of any other tube in the frame and there are literally dozens of CF repair shops and even CF bike makers themselves, who will repair CF frame damage at a reasonable price.
Last, CF frames are not only lighter than ti frames for a given stiffness, but more importantly a well made CF frame will absolutely damp high frequency road vibrations far better than any alloy framed bike made of steel, ti or aluminum. It just will and that damping of high frequency road buzz absolutely leads to more rider comfort over long rides with everything else being equal (tire and wheel choice, cockpit, etc...). CF frames can also be shaped far more easily than ti frames to provide compliance in desired directions and stiffness in other directions. Ti and other alloy bicycle frames are far more limited in their ability to be built into framesets that can provide compliance in one plane and stiffness in another. It can be done a bit, but their ability to do so is very limited compared to the fabrication options available to CF frames.
Just because a ti frame takes more time to fab than a CF frame does not mean it is a better product, nor does it mean it is a higher quality product. It just means it took longer to make. That's it!
I’d hardly compare the wear of a carbon frame with a “scratch” on a titanium frame. You do know you can polish titanium to make it look good as new right? There is no structural issues with that, unlike with carbon over time. Cables rubbing on carbon is way more serious and damaging for example. 🙄
Repair: only because there are more people doing it because it’s more in demand. Because carbon frame get broken more frequently. It’s very logical when you think about it. It’s hardly a negative of titanium, on the contrary it’s an indictment of CF.
CF is only lighter because it’s less stiff and weaker. Make a carbon tube as strong as a titanium tube and it will be so thick that it will be significantly heavier. (That’s a fact) Nobody would buy a Ti frame that’s as easily broken as a CF frame. The marketing on CF is it needs to be light to justify the price. So they sacrifice stiffness and reliability. If there was the demand for titanium you might see further investment in 3D printing, as of now you can still make advanced shapes in titanium, it’s just more difficult and costly because it’s on a small scale. (Plenty of new Titanium brands making integrated aero frames nowadays) carbon is only stiffer on paper, in reality most aluminium frames are stiffer than most carbon frames because of the tube thickness. I have a friend who was new to cycling, he had 5 big brand carbon bikes in 2 years, (giant, factor x2, Cipo, Boardman) ended up on a Allez Sprint (aluminium frame) because he said it was the fastest, stiffest frame he had tried and the weight difference was almost nothing.
The worlds fastest bike (record holder) is still made of metal. 😎
I have a Serotta Legend TI and it could pass for new and it was new in 2005..... I wasn't the original owner though, I've had it for a couple of years now and still looks the same as the day I got it.
How the hell do you crack a Ti chainstay? Maybe by getting runover by an SUV...
@@hal9058 I've heard that some makers were better than others at the quality/durability of their welds. That may still continue today. I've heard of some Serotta TI frames with over 100,000 miles on them.
I finally reached my limit of constant spending for bikes and components that just did not last. I searched out the titanium frame builder here in the US based on the bikes and designs that appealed to me and it didn't matter what it cost. Fot he last 3 years I have been riding this custom titanium frame with titanium bars, stem, and seatpost. Aluminum wheels too. The bike rides so beautifully. And best of all, it will last me an eternity. It's light enough at 8 kg that if I did race I believe it would do just fine. Makes me kind of wish I would have chose this over a decade ago, but then we didn't have disc brake road bikes back then.
No disc brake road bikes? Those were indeed the good old days! But sounds like a great bike and a good choice of kit. 👍🏻
Pros ride in a team which is sponsored and therefore need to ride a certain bike brand. Well, that is not completely true now is it? Just look at Peter Sagan and participation in the Pierre Baguette team. An other thing: why doesn´t retired pros who are no longer sponsored by any brand still not ride titanium bikes or rim brakes for that matter? Don´t get me wrong I have nothing against titanium bikes and would love to own one. But the reason I want a titanium is not because I believe it´s better or faster than a carbon or alu bike. I just like the look of many of them, and I like the fact that there is no paint that get chipped or scratched. I also like that is practically indestructible. I have also heard many say they are really comfortable to ride, and if that is true I would love to experience that. You could argue that many carbon bikes are just as expensive or even more expensive than titanium bikes, but many are not and they also are much more available. If I want to buy a titanium bike I will have to buy it online without having the opportunity to test and experience it and first. You have to pretty invested enthusiast to get hold of a titanium bike, and it will be quite expensive. I truly believe that Pogacar would be able to win a GC on a titanium bike. He managed to win with rim brakes and disc brakes, and he even won with both brake systems using an electronic groupset. Wow! Or not wow. It´s about the rider, not the bike. The bike can of course help you and if two riders are very similar the best bike can certainly be decisive. An other thing: if a team like UAE or Ineos who both have quite a big budget, what is really stopping them from using titanium bikes if they really truly belive they are better than carbon? In a world of marginal gains I refuse to believe that it´s because of some far fetched conspiracy theory.
Good comment. As for if pros ride titanium after they retire, they do. If you do a little research you will find plenty who not only ride titanium but also act as brand ambassadors for titanium brands, like Tom Boonen for example. Also many Pro cyclists have their own bikes at home that they can’t ride while they are working. Because they go against the sponsor, a few Pros that I know of have Ti bikes in that home collection. But I think the point is that it’s not about what’s faster as I stated. It’s about profit, even if Ti bikes were “faster” they still wouldn’t use them because the point is to keep the sponsors happy and they make carbon bikes… because carbon is more profitable. That’s the real reason. 🙂👍🏻
@@reginaldscot165 Of course you will be able to find some pros who have a titanium bike in their collection, just like you also will find steel bikes. The majority though does not have a titanium bike. Doesn´t mean they´re bad, but it is a niche product. But why does retired pros still use electronic shifting and disc brakes if they don´t have to? Because they find it better and more convenient.
When it comes to pro teams not using titanium bikes I find it really hard to believe that they would knowingly sacrifice better results (even one day race or GC wins) if they had chosen titanium bikes instead of carbon. Yes, sponsors are of course important, but not just as important for all teams. The UAE team could probably use frames made of diamonds if they really wanted to. And all the money Sky and Ineos has spent on marginal gains could easily cover going with titanium bikes instead of carbon if titanium frames would means saving money in the rest of the chain. I think choosing carbon probably makes everything easier, and for those teams which actually does care about a budget I would guess it´s also less expensive (though that is of course debatable - would they need as many frames/bikes during a season simply because less wear/tear/etc.?)
It's hard to shape and weld titanium into aerodynamic shapes. Carbon is easy to mold into any desired shape. Carbon fiber is generally lighter yet comparably as strong as titanium. Carbon fiber also absorbs vibrations well.
Hard but not impossible. Especially with the advent of 3D printing.
It’s only lighter because strength and reliability have been sacrificed. That’s why carbon frames are nowhere near as strong as titanium frames. If you made the carbon thicker so it was as strong as titanium it would be heavier.
Sorry mate, but it seems that you have no idea how labor intensive is carbon manufacturing. I have some hands on experience working with fiberglass and carbon and every time it was a PITA. (Repairing my canoe and racing drone frames, reinforcing model airplane cockpits to whitsand rough landings, etc.)
Unfortunately only Time has somewhat automated carbon bike frame manufacturing as they are weaving their tubes like socks, but other manufacurers are producing the frames like this:
th-cam.com/video/AGamuoMNsEk/w-d-xo.html
Time frame manufacturing:
th-cam.com/video/tkqE8FxwWTU/w-d-xo.html
I have a friend who made his own kayaks and canoes, he was on the Olympic team. So yes that’s a lot of work. But that different from bike frame production in many important aspects.
Dude. Aero makes a massive difference. GCN showed the difference in time over a course with various generation Pinarellos. Titanium can’t be moulded into aero shapes easily like carbon can. You can 3D print a titanium frame but I wouldn’t trust it over a welded tubular frame.
So yes you just invalidated your argument because 3D printing is a thing. Also yes it’s difficult to shape Ti tubes but not impossible, the issue is profit! And finally you are over estimating the impact of a aerodynamic frame. It’s less than 2% of the total drag of rider and bike. Titanium has other advantages that would more than make up for that small loss and that’s assuming that the frame is totally not aerodynamic.
Your first mistake is assuming GCN have any journalistic integrity. All of their funding comes from not pissing off any of the bike manufacturers who send them free stuff to fawn over, so it's absolutely in their best interest to show results proving the latest product their sponsor is selling is the one to buy. If they changed their riding kit and tyres to period correct items along with each bike, the result would be more believable though, as tyre rolling resistance and clothing are both a lot more important for getting more speed per watt than the shape of the bike frame.
Better profit margin on plastic frames.
Correct.
Spot on. Not only with framesets, but the whole industry is geared towards pushing short-lived products. It's a sad state of affairs, when cycling should be all about sustainability, which should mean longevity and human-powered riding (i.e. no electronic shifting).
Totally agreed. 👍🏻
Aero is free Watts and molding composites into aerodynamic shapes is considerably easier and cheaper than hydro forming metal into aerodynamic shapes.
Easier, but not impossible. Also do you know what the aero advantage is for a carbon aero frame? 😉
It’s almost nothing. The important part is you and your wheels, and that can be made aero on any bike. 🙂
@@reginaldscot165 then why don’t they make 50mm kamtail rims out of alloy? Check out Young’s Modulus.
Enjoyed your video! We have a friend who rides a titanium bike. He loves it. He had an aluminum and a carbon bike but the bit the dust through accidents.
Where are you riding? I see palm trees and you're dressed for fall riding. Yup it's autumn in Canada now. I have four bikes from three decades including my new specialized carbon assist creo 2 e-bike. Bikes for all weather and road conditions, types of riding whether it's road, gravel or touring trips on a tandem. I'm an older gal who lives to ride. Be happy and ignore the critics!!! ❤
The arm sleeves are to protect me from the sun, I used to use sun cream but it comes off after an hour with all my sweat and it stains my jerseys and it also give you cancer? So now I just try to cover up. I’m on the island of Borneo. 🙂
Good discussion Reg -- btw which gloves are you using here? cheers
Thank you. I’m using the BBB cooldown gloves. Code (BBW-56) But they aren’t anything special. I use them because they don’t have much padding (I don’t like thick gloves) and they are cheap. That’s about all I can say about them. 😅
Aluminum is lighter than titanium... not many know that
That’s technically true. But titanium frames can be built lighter than aluminium because of the tube wall thickness. 🙂👍🏻
Indeed. Ti is stronger, so less material is needed,
And aluminium is not really repairable
Same reason why lightbulb companies intentionally produce bulbs that fail after a couple of years. You don't want to make something too durable or you'll dry up the cash flow.
That’s very true. I often tell people about the lightbulb conspiracy. 😄
Surprisingly, the reason for that was actually down to customer preferences and efficiency. A lightbulb that glows dull red will last forever (There's one that's been burning for over 100 years in a fire station in the US), but turn almost all the energy it uses into heat and produces light of a mostly red colour that most people don't like the look of. A bulb that produces strong white light will turn a lot more of the energy it uses into light (Still very little compared to fluorescent tubes, HID and LED lights, but they didn't exist at the time), and therefore will use less energy as well as being more pleasant to use over its life. With the only downside being the reduced life.
At the time the light bulb conspiracy was in full swing, many power companies would swap blown bulbs for new ones for their customers for free, because that was still cheaper for them than building new power plants to deal with the power demands less efficient light bulbs would put on their infrastructure.
Pros ride what sponsors provide, sponsors have no interested in decades lasting bicycles, they're interested in plastic breaking toys, you need to replace every year.
Cracks unheard of in titanium bikes, yes?? Rgr
That’s not true.
Exactly. Good for business. 👏🏻
No, everything can fail. Everything does fail. But, it’s about the likelihood of that happening. I’m getting comments from people who are still riding the same Ti bike from the 1990s. That’s not uncommon for titanium.
It would be very interesting to know how many frames a pro team uses over the season. Even more interesting to have pros limited to 3 frames per year.
Me too! I did actually mention this in another video called “Pro cycling has a problem and I know how to fix it.” I basically call for no support cars and no bike replacements (unless damaged in a crash) for the entire season. 😃
Pantani used 36 Alu frames in his peak year '98.
Great video! I’ve recently purchased a Lynskey titanium bike and I love it. No regrets at all!
Fantastic 👍🏻🙂
Wow, I sure needed that advice. I have a Cervelo S5 with a self made 81 tooth single chainring, stronger made handlebar stem, changed the Di2 synchronized to electronic hub gears and redrilled the Hed serated rims from 24 spoke to 32 spoke (rims brakes).
My Curve titanium bike has remote controlled ( with smallest being 10 tooth on) cluster and hydraulic disc brakes with single 78 tooth chainring.
I've been brainwashed into believing the Cervelo was a better bike but whenever I am due to race my 47yo buddy up North Head or McCarrs hills I always take my Curve because it is nicer to ride even though it has a higher top gear.
BTW I'm 75yo, first bike a steel Campagnolo handbuilt by John Bazelman and still love it , now not strong enough to snap the crank axles anymore.
Oh and had to weld the derailleur hanger forward of the axle to prevent chain skipping over the top of the 11 tooth teeth .😊
Nice comment, my pleasure to have you watching. 🙏🏻🙂
Which litespeed would you recomend if I where to invest in a do it all for the rest of my life bike? 97% for Road, but also the possibility to do put on some gravel wheels down the line?
Humm, that’s a difficult question. Personally I’m reluctant to suggest something. Simply because I don’t know enough about what your intentions are or your ride conditions.
For example I ride almost exclusively on road, but sometimes I will take a short cut down a gravel path. Just light gravel. I use a normal road bike with rim brakes and 23 mm tyres. I find that it is more than rideable on such a bike. So for me I would go with a real road bike, and also the added advantage of titanium is even on gravel it makes for a relatively comfortable ride.
However if your tastes change or the gravel is heavy duty, or if you mean the three rides out of 10 will be completely on gravel for many kilometres. Then a gravel Bike is more suitable. However, a gravel a bike is not the best option for long distances on the road, it will be heavy and slow and you will be forced to buy disc breaks that a bit of a pain to maintain.
By the sounds of it an “all road bike” is an option you might consider, it’s a road bike, with disc brakes, that can fit a wider tyre. So suitable for light to medium gravel riding. At Litespeed that would be the a T5 Disc, Cherohala or possibly the Flint.
But if you ask me I’d just buy a road bike and A) just not do a lot of gravel. Or B) also buy a proper Gravel bike for days when I really want to do gravel. Or C) Buy an nice Ti road bike for 97% of the time and get a cheap steel or aluminium (second hand maybe) MTB for everything else, you can even get a 80/90s MTB and turn it into a pretty awesome Gravel bike as very little cost. If you are only going to spend 3% of your time on it I think this is a good option. 🙂👍🏻
^go with option C) for sure!
What do you think of the litespeed ultimate?
I have an ultimate and a classic, call the guys in Chattanooga and they are very helpful at least from my experience plus they have some good sales from the emails.
I would go for a T-Lab X3. A gravel bike good enough for road racing. The bike can take up to 114kg rider, so bike packing or touring is not an issue. Very stable at high speed.
It's actually pretty simple really. Carbon fiber offers bicycle manufacturers a limitless amount of options and variables. You can literally make carbon fiber any shape you want to. Meaning you can try endless variations of frame shape and design based on whatever criteria you want. And as much as you may argue that titianium is a superior material, you're still constrained to the physical limitations of it. No such limits exist with carbon fiber. Thus, carbon fiber wins.
The reason is carbon cheaper and easier to manufacture.
Yes Titanium is currently harder to shape. But not impossible, but that makes it expensive. And so the manufacturers prefer moulded plastic.
However 3D printing has the potential to chalk that.
I fully agree. I drove a Litespeed MTB in the 1990 and that convinced me until today.
😍
I absolutely agree with this evaluation. Since I bought a used 2016 Litespeed Ultimate, it's been my favourite bike of all the other bikes I've ever owned. This bike i'll keep, thats for sure.
Wonderful! 😁
That's not a conspiracy theory, it's simply a critique of shareholder, short term profit seeking capitalism.
👍🏻
I bought a Genesis Equalibrium 10 in 2010 to replace my old Aluminium bike and it has been a lovely bike to ride, not race. I also bought a Ti bike in 2018 and the ride feel is just as good as the Genesis Equalibrium 10 albeit a whole kilo lighter. I ride the Ti bike in the dry and the Genesis steelie in the wet with mudguards. Both rim brake bikes and I’m not interested in disc brake bike at all as good rim brake pads are perfectly adequate for me. The Ti bike was made by Mark Reilly. The welds are really neat and tidy and hopefully they won’t crack. Happy days.
Wonderful 🙂
I was riding Carbon. Had a 3rd hand Ti Litespeed and a new Steel Ritchey. The Carbon is now just a frame hanging up in the garage. I moved the Ti on when I stopped racing and just ride the ritchey now. The Ti and Steel are noticeably more comfortable and smooth rides. It would be interesting to see what ex-pros ride on once they retire.
Quite a few ride Ti and steel.
I always like watching your videos. You always make arguments that make sense. Keep it up and ride safe
Ha ha I’m glad I make sense to at least someone! 😂 Thank you. 🙂🙏🏻
Good idea bunnyhopping over those expansion joints on bridges. They can vary a lot.
Thanks 😊 the edges look a bit sharp. 😅
I have a Litespeed from 1997 with Campy 9 and bought another Litespeed in 2021. Best bike out there and the frame lasts, wouldn’t buy carbon frame for anything.
Reginald new viewer, where is the video from?
Hello! Great to hear your good fortune with excellent bikes. 🙂 The video is from Brunei South East Asia. 👍🏻
I recall that the pro team did use ti bikes a lot back in the 90s. De Rosa went to Litespeed to learn the technique of ti bike manufacturing. Eddy Merckx let Litespeed produce ti bikes for them.
Richard Virenque had won many KOM on Litespeed ti bike. A cyclist won sprint finish in TDF on a Litespeed Ultimate ti bike.
That’s true 🙂👍🏻
Enjoyed your video and agree with so much. I've never owned nor rode a Ti Bicycle but possibly someday I will and look forward to it. Currently I ride an old steel Trek from the mid 80's as a training bike. Also ride a 34 year old (1990) carbon fiber Specialized Allez Epic that I train heavy, heavy on. Looks as new as the day I bought it and get many compliments on it. Most my miles are done on this bike. Competition Bicycle for triathlon is a S-Works SL6 set-up for Tri. I also have an aluminum bike which I rarely ride. I think many of your comments are wrong about carbon. Also, being a fabricator as part of my business tig welding I can assure you a Titanium Frame Bicycle can be turned out far quicker than a Carbon Bicycle. Yes, the Ti bike will need a skilled worker whereas most anyone can be trained to assemble a carbon bike. The amount of time to turn out a carbon bike far exceeds the time to rig up a custom Ti bike in a jig and weld. I do agree with the big corporations and marketing but if a Ti bike was indeed better, you'd see it in the pro ranks. That's just the way it works in all areas of Competition from Motorsports and on.
Oh noooo! This comment was going so well, until you basically made the silly comment about “if it was good it would be used by the Pros!” What a waste of time. 😩
You have no experience of titanium bikes but carbon is better? That’s like eating McDonald’s all your life and saying it’s better than a home made burger you have never tried. 😭
I really like what you said about carbon being worn out after a few years.. I am riding two aluminum bikes (allez sprint Gen 1 & 2), after switching from carbon. Gen 1 for traveling, Gen 2 sitting at home or for racing. Had to change the frame once because of unrepairable dent on the seat stay. Titanium on the other hand, would have been able to sustain the impact or if not, dent repairable. I think it would make sense for me to switch my travel bike for a Litespeed
Oh yeah titanium bikes make excellent travel bikes. 🙂👍🏻
Good video. Had to learn this stuff on my own. Would have liked to know this when I was 15.
Me too, could have saved myself $1000s
Could not agree more, I purchased a new Reilly Titanium bike, handmade in Brighton by Reilly cycles two years ago to replace my Colnago carbon framed bike (which has now relegated to the turbo trainer), so much more comfortable, does not creak & groan on a rough road. Looks like the day I got it, not a mark on it. It also comes with a lifetime guarantee and a promise of a half price frame replacement in the event of a serious and unrepairable accident. It has rim brakes and cable gears, simple to maintain. The two carbon bikes I have owned (Colnago & Cannondale) always seemed a little fragile and easily marked.
What a wonderful comment, really sums everything up nicely. 🙂👍🏻
I see clearly." I'm here to chew bubblegum and kick arse but now I'm all out of bubble gum", They Live.
Great movie 🍿 👍🏻
I much prefer a metal frame. I like steel. I've never had a titanium bike. I do have an aluminum bike that I just picked up at a yard sale for $25 that was in nearly new condition but the owner mever rode it and it didn't shift right... because they damaged the rear shifter cable housing when they hung the bike on a hook in their garage. Other than that and needing air in the tires, it was in perfect condition, and after about $20 in parts and maintenance items, I ride it almost daily.
Fantastic!
You can put a way bigger brand sticker on a big square carbon tube.
It’s been 50 years since I raced. I was on the wait list to get a Teledyne TI bike the first to come out on the market. They were slow in production and I never got mine. 30 years later I was still riding my steel race bike when my family bought me a Giant TCR. 20 years later I still ride the TCR.
Off road I have a Santa Cruz super light 08 this bike got me hooked on disk brakes and suspension.
My current favorite bikes are my German trekking bikes, a Cube and Focus both aluminum . They go anywhere and are fun to ride and I can take them on tour. Heavy like a German tank and built to last.
I now like any bike I am riding. Just happy to be riding.
Good for you, stay happy and healthy! 🙂👍🏻
An excellent video. Absolutely correct. Carbon Fibre has really damaged the bike industry. Because of the moulds and ovens required to produce CF frames, their construction is out of reach for the traditional artisanal builder.The big companies like Trek and Specialised contrive changes to brakes and shifting that the ease of manipulation of CF permits. These are false problems whose origins are profit driven and mechanically flawed - as you brilliantly summed up in your video on disc brakes. Keep the faith, baby!
Thank you kindly. Excellent comment and I agree. 👍🏻🙂
Superb! Subbed at sock length rant....lol
Ha ha thanks! 😅
It's not titanium, but I'm about to resurrect my Columbus Max frame - I love that frame.
I'm just getting back into riding, and I note a bunch of people are buying pro-spec gear, and then bitching about the cost.
Anyway, you got a follow; good vid.
Thank you and that sounds like wonderful news! ❤️👍🏻
When I got into road touring, a friend who I started riding the tours with, convinced me finally to buy my 1st carbon frame; a Wilier S7. I love that bike, very comfortable. However I was so ameroused with it I bought a Centro Uno. After several years I really dislike Centro! A friend at work bought a used Lightspeed, in natural Ti finish. That bike was a size too large for me, however I fell in love with that ride. I then started looking up about Ti bikes. I want one! I should have gotten a Ti bike before all others. I'm a big heavy guy, so I get "isn't that frame going to crack?" remark. My knuckles don't get sore anymore. One day I'm getting that Lightspeed bike, oh yeah I lost 56 pounds & still losing, but I still don't look like a typical cyclist. I rode to work 22 miles round trip, 5 days a week - rain or shine. Easier than dealing with NYC traffic. Now retired, still try to ride everyday, just not the rain anymore. Reginald Scot here has me yearning for that Lightspeed!
Lovely comment. Safe riding! ❤️🙂
You can put a way bigger brand sticker on a big square carbon tube.
It’s been 50 years since I raced. I was on the wait list to get a Teledyne TI bike the first to come out on the market. They were slow in production and I never got mine. 30 years later I was still riding my steel race bike when my family bought me a Giant TCR. 20 years later I still ride the TCR.
Off road I have a Santa Cruz super light 08 this bike got me hooked on disk brakes and suspension.
My current favorite bikes are my German trekking bikes, a Cube and Focus both aluminum . They go anywhere and are fun to ride and I can take them on tour. Heavy like a German tank and built to last.
I now like any bike I am ridinAnd g. Just happy to be riding.
That’s a lovely way to think. 👍🏻🙂
I have a 2005 Lightspeed Vortec titanium bike that I bought new for riding centurys. Fast, beautiful ride and still looks like new.
Fantastic! 😍
I entirely agree with your point that the best product isn't always (or is rarely, to be honest) the one that wins the market.
However I really doubt that you couldn't automate the production of titanium frames, it would probably be a very expensive initial investment, but after that you could much more quickly adjust a jig for different tube sizes or geometry than you can make a new mold. I also wouldn't say laying carbon requires no skill, they do have to lay just the right pieces of carbon in just the right place.
But yeah I totally agree that it's much easier to make changes to a carbon bike's design to make it look like the latest new thing and get people to buy a new one, while a titanium or steel frame will always look like a titanium or steel frame. In my opinion that's a huge plus, because they stay looking good basically forever like you say.
They definitely could and I even posed the question to LS why they don’t? Basically they want to retain the traditional hand made feel of the bikes. But I worked in factory automation in the robotic welding for years and for sure they could. In fact I think they should, because it would reduce costs and increase the reliability of the welds. That could be passed onto the customer. I’m all for making titanium bikes Cheaper! ❤️
I don’t think it’s the same level of skill. Put it this way, laying carbon in a mould is like putting bits of tape down, if you make a mistake you just pull up the tape and move it. Then once the frame comes out the mould even if there is a mistake they just put a bit extra on it, or use a filler and sand it. After it’s painted you won’t notice. 🤷🏻♂️ We know this because when people cut up frames they find all the repairs and mistakes. As for Ti welding you can’t make a mistake because if you do you ruin the workpiece, if it’s the first weld you throw away 2 parts of the frame. If it’s the last weld you throw away the entire frame! 😅
nice video👍, there's an advantage of cycling people being into new things, that's second hand market, is full of treasures like really nice ring breaks bikes, nice ring breaks wheels. thanks to that I can ride on a nice one
Absolutely! 👍🏻❤️
Thank you 😊
The same old cliches. Carbon commercial, titanium passion. They made me pay too much money for my titanium bike, so now it's part of my identity and I'm shouting silly things on the internet about it. And I don't like other people making fun of my socks. "We titanium-people don't care what people think"? Get a grip and go do something interesting with your life.
Says the nobody making angry comments about bikes. 😂 Pay too much for my titanium bike? It was less expensive than the equivalent carbon bike and will last longer and is better value for money. Sounds like you realised you paid too much for your carbon bike. 😁
@@reginaldscot165 These titanium-people sure quickly get offended, I thought they "don't care what people think".
100% agree with you on titanium bikes. It's the master race of frame material. Carbon has some advantages, but its chief advantage is that it's a disposable bike that can be mass produced at scale and sold for outrageous profits. I am 100% confident that if all the pro tour riders switched to titanium frames, we would only see a negligible difference in performance. Probably not even statistically significant.
Agreed!!! 👍🏻💪🏼
i ride an old Bridgestone MB frame for my around the town. It is not as light as some things but i only run about 155 on a 6 foot frame so I don't put to much stress on anything. I like steel for its ability to provide a little flex and general comfort on a long ride. I have ridden an lot of aluminum frames and they are ok but just a little less pleasant. I may pickup a Ti bike or frame along the way and expect to like it just about the same a steel with added beni of not worrying as much about paint and corrosion.
And lighter 🙂
I have back pain and started using recumbent bikes. Here in Brazil they are practically non-existent. So I needed to make my own. As I don't know how to weld, I decided to do it with composite materials. Carbon was an option, but after studying a little I decided to make it out of wood, laminating thin layers into solid hollow pieces. It was light enough for my use, aesthetically attractive and much, much more resistant to time and impacts than a carbon bike. In an accident, the bike fell off the support of the moving car, with no apparent damage. But in any specialized store I feel that pride from the more fanatical cyclists you mentioned. I've made 3 wooden bikes over the years. The current one is 10 years old now, I'm thinking about building a new one, just for the pleasure of creating something perfected by the experience I had with the first one. Something these plastic worshipers will never know what it is.
Amazing! You should sell them internationally!
2002 Serotta Hors Catagorie with Campy SR12, Modolo Curvisima, SMP Full Carbon, EE Brakes & Mavic Kysrium is my primary ride since having it made, (I keep upgrading components). There are Dogmas from 04, 12 & 22 in the fleet, but, the custom made titanium bike is always dirty from the road.
Nice 👌🏻
I have a Van Nicholas Skeiron that I bought second hand. A 4 year old frame that i have no qualms buying 2nd hand without worrying about its condition from wear and tear. I don't have a bottomless pocket and prefer a good frame that will last me for years. I don't ride very fast and am thoroughly enjoying my ride on this bike. Fyi, i have a mechanical 105 groupset, so no worries about obsolescence.
to add to your comment on product longevity, i know a story about a german wheel lathe manufacturer that makes a product that is so good, that their product lasts for decades and eventually they were bought over by a Canadian company because they couldn't sell enough equipment to sustain the business. the new buyers "reduced" the product lifespan so that in a couple of years, the user will need to buy new equipment.
Your story checks out. It’s standard practice nowadays, I don’t know when this started happening but it feels like it became the norm sometime in the 1990s? As an example my father bought our first Panasonic microwave in 1988. When I left the UK in 2016 he was still using the same microwave. Since I set up my own home I have had 3 microwaves in 5 years. I know want the problem is with the 2 broken ones but parts are difficult to get here. 🤷🏻♂️
Like our parents are so fond of saying ... Things nowadays sure don't last as long as they use to 😜. Maybe I'm old school, but a metal bike feels a lot more reassuring compared to carbon. Having said that, carbon wheels, carbon forks seems to be still ok. But they are somewhat relatively cheaper to replace compared to a high end carbon frame.
Hi,
By the way J. Anquetil, E. Merckx and B. Hinault each won 5 TDF on steel bikes. Why the actual riders do not use steel bikes ?
Eddy also won on a titanium bike.
@@reginaldscot165 I do not knew. Virenque rode a titanium bike in 97 but his performances were not from his bike but for high chemistry !!
The later German tanks were also notoriously unreliable, especially the transmissions. Some were so heavy that only a tank of similar size could recover them if they were damaged or broke down . The Russian T34 had a superb 2 stroke diesel engine.
Also vast numbers of German tanks were assembled by slave labour
Well, those mostly were prototypes... overengineered....
Fortunately the allies never used their 'prisoners' for work, right? lol
@hellebarde1450 these weren't "prisoners of war" they were civilians from occupied territory who were worked to death who bravely sabotaged production at the risk of instant execution.. Can you give examples of similar scenarios from the allied side ?
@@Andy-co6pn Google for Gulag...
That’s true. They had grand ambitions and the skills but didn’t have the money or resources to complete anything to a reliable standard. Also it’s hard to make reliable products when someone is bombing your factory night and day. 😅
I have a Moots Vamoots RSL and love it, with carbon rims very smooth the only thing I'd change is the gearing so I can climb hills better
Sounds wonderful! Happy cycling!
I do not know why TH-cam suggested your video. It's more than 5 years someone stole my Kona aluminium bike. I only have 2 little bikes for my children.
Although I was impressed by your solid arguments.
Behind every big popular industry, especially in broadcasting sports there are huge marketing teams who try to manipulate the market, the audience and our brains.
Your example with premium quality and specs Panzers and Tigers vs cheap but easily produced T-34s, ISs and Shermans is great.
There are many other examples out there for PCs, Home Cinema, Audio, IT. Superior technology is not always the winner. The one that has more peer pressure and media coverage, leverage and distribution channels does.
You might be the only person who likes my tank analogy. 😄
@@reginaldscot165 I enjoy people who have a wider knowledge and wider spectrum on topics they are talking about.
I forgot to highlight your V brakes arguments about the pros who you use them despite the pressure from their marketers.
V brakes for the most part are better for cheaper price and less maintenance. Marketers try to convince people that is obsolete technology and the premium and fancy way is the disk brakes. They try to use tactics like iPhone marketers use (ie with blue and green messages) in order to alienate V brakes users as inferior class, low budget, underdog, less sexy or wealthy people.
You are not the only one who talks about it but I think the popular opinion most of the time and as regards technical topics is useless. People choose what is convenient and mostly what they are told to buy, not the best for their needs. Peer pressure is real! Mimicking is an instinct we got from apes. I think we should start to discard this with some logical thinking.
Love my custom Ti Dean.
16 yrs old, feels and rides like new.
Matte black by Spectrum
Excellent 👍🏻
I've a new sub and kept catching myself wondering why the cars, roads, curbs you ride look familar, is that Brunei? reminds me so much of Penang Island... btw have you ever ridden in say Bangkok or Chiang Mai, crazy how nice the roads are there, are the roads good quite good in Brunei/Malaysian Borneo? Never been.
Honestly the drivers in Thailand scared the 💩 out of me! The roads could be made of gold, but you couldn’t pay me to ride on them. 😅
The world’s best looking (IMO) women are there however… unfortunately some of them are men! 🥺
The roads here are ok, some good some bad, some of the drivers are idiots but mostly people are nice to you. 100% better than Malaysia that’s for sure. 😄
Thank you for the comment! Safe riding!
Case in point: Andreas Kirschner's Ti frame manufacturer Falkenjagd 3D-printed an entire Ti bike frame seamlessly in one piece as a proof-of-concept for their Aristos series. Set him back a mere 40 000 Euro in production cost...
Ha ha that’s nothing! I find that kind of money down the back of the sofa. 😂 NOT! 😉
I've had my Van Nicholas for 15 years now, it is indestructible and see me into the box.
Nice 👌🏻
Armstrong won one of the TDF stages on a titanium Lightspeed TT bike. And the winning TDF bikes by Pinnarello in 2006 or 2007 were magnesium. Super cheap and ride great. I ride a magnesium Vaast and it’s incredible.
I’ve only seen 1 or 2 bikes made of that in my life. 🙂
@@reginaldscot165 Check out Vaast. Almost as light as carbon fiber, almost as cheap as aluminum. And magnesium has vibration dampening properties. Rides like a dream.
@@reginaldscot165 Magnesium used all over the place. suspension fork legs, car subframes...
My local bike shop has a Lynksey titanium road bike with full 105 for £999.00 right now. People dont get it. I spent 26 years in advertising, I work for the NHS now but I see through the hype. Got a Sabbath Silk Route for £1600 that's a full TI touring bike and a Ribble endurance TI, oh and a Spa Elan 2 TI. Don't need another bike before the grave, never ridden carbon, never seen the point.
Amazing! And to think the 105 is about $500 and the wheels are probably another $200 so the frame is almost nothing. 🤷🏻♂️
@@reginaldscot165 yes that's about right. You can get a disc brake 105 TI bike new right now for about 2 grand right now, go get em
Great discussion totally agree. Thanks. KB
Thank you Sir, all the best! 🙂
I've been riding steel since the the early 70's and I'm still riding steel today, friction shifting, rim brakes and tubular tires along with clips and straps! The great thing about steel bikes you don't have to be as careful as like riding HIGH BUCK carbon rigs you can push them hard, grind them up and you ride them like this for years and years, I've been in several good crashes which involved many trips to the emergency room through all this I have yet to break a frame nor ending up with bent forks, I'm also a great wheel builder to where I used to build wheel sets for other bicycle shops, so I had several different sets of wheel sets for different ride and road conditions, and with as many crashes that I've through I've yet to have a any type of wheel failures. I'll have a late 90's LITESPEED Ti frameset, some time in the near future it will be back on the road once again.
As for TITANIUM bikes being ridden by Professional cyclist, in the 70's Luis Ocana rode a TITANIUM Speedwell that was badged as a MOTOBECANE.
Great comment! Good for you! 😁👍🏻
@@reginaldscot165
I fatigued snapped my steel Campagnolo crossbar so I just shaped sleeved it and brazed the longitudinal part of shaped sleeve to the crossbar.