The SECRET Why Pros Don’t Ride Titanium.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 31 พ.ค. 2024
- This road should have been much quieter than it was? I will try to find somewhere quieter for my next video. 🙏🏻
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Reg. - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
In my opinion uci is just a club to protect industry. Just like fia is for formula 1!
Probably true to some extent. 🙂👍🏻
I wish there was a bike company that just went out of their way to sell bikes that weren't UCI legal in any way. Find every single watt saving or speed advantage that was cut by the UCI and put all that stuff back onto a bike that's just for people who want to go fast AF and aren't trying to compete.
Just like the FiA really only cares about F1, and not other series, the UCI are the same for Road racing; and don't do enough for MTB, CX and other disciplines......
And that is exactly why i stopped watching al their races !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Pros are advertising billboards, they advert companies via clothes and equipment. Some people buy bikes with the false belief they will go as fast as a pro because the pro rode the same kind of bike.
If companies have spent a lot of money on moulds and factory set up for carbon then they are not going to reinvest in a titanium factory set up when carbon is selling well.
True 👍🏻
That was the message of the video.
Because they need to hide batteries & motors in the frames.
Lol 😂
need large bb shells
hahaha
You're not wrong.
And of course in 1999 Lance Armstrong won a time trial stage in the TDF on a Litespeed painted to look like a Trek. Can't do that stuff anymore because they make carbon fibre frames look so distinctive nowadays.
Yep. Up until the 1990's when they were still on steel frames, the top pros had their bikes built by master craftsmen and then painted them up to match the sponsor bikes.
That’s correct. It was a Litespeed Blade. Very aerodynamic looking bike. 👍🏻🙂
Yes I remember that,very distinctive shape knew it was not a Trek. There were other teams using ti bikes,rebranded or repainted.
But, importantly, it was not about the bike.
As I recall Robbie McKewen won one of his TdF green jersey’s on a Litespeed Vortex….
I have both a titanium Moots and a Cervelo soloist. Horses for courses. Love them both but different tools. Just ride and enjoy yourself. Wheels and tires matter a lot more
I’d rather be on a good frame and cheap wheels than expensive wheels and a cheap frame. 😉
Beta vs VHS is a comparison that’s lost on most people these days, but Beta was the superior product, VHS took the market.
I literally mentioned that very example in my video but cut it out in the edit! 😂 Though it was something most people nowadays wouldn’t know about. 😅
It provided better videos, but lost out on price and availability. VHS (developed by JVC) was opened for use by other electronic manufacturers, while Sony decided that they could charge a premium price for their product. People are still sensitive to price and availability, even for bicycles.
Reynolds quit making the 6/4 Ti tubing back in 2006 or 2007, and that led to the use of 3/2.5 Ti. I would argue that the 6/4 is markedly better for use in bicycle frames. And a Ti frame will always weigh more, but I have a 2000 Litespeed Tanasi that I still use. I don't think many 24 year-old carbon frames are still in use.
watch?v=_oJs8-I9WtA maybe there was actually not much of a difference, but it was a marketing argument, which is funny considering the points made in the bike video % )
“Worse is better”. Classic essay.
I own a 1998 Litespeed Ultimate that rides like day 1. I'm pretty sure someone will be riding it long after I'm gone.
A bike you can pass on to the next generation. ❤️🙂 Great comment! Safe riding!
I have a 2002 Tuscany with campy record. The tubes and welding are just art work. The frame looks like brand new. Best bike ever, till my 2022BMC Roadmachine. Love em both .
I have a 1999 Litespeed Ultimate. I was hit by a car back in 2020. Although the mostly all the components were destroyed the frame survived with losing any trueness. The Klein carbon fork was replaced with a Ritchey carbon fork. Rim brakes are still Campy Record. You are probably correct in that one of my boys will inherit it when I am pushing up daisies.
Hello from Singapore.
1999 Litespeed Classic here. :)
'02 LeMond Victoire. Steel may be real, but Ti is fly...
Today is the 28th anniversary of the first and only new bike I ever bought:my beautiful and rare Dawes with reynolds 531 competition tubes🤗🥳
Excellent choice 😎👌🏻 Happy cycling. 👍🏻
I started to ride a titanium Merlin in 1990. Tom Kellogg designed the Merlin frame. Tom built me a custom titanium Spectrum in about 2001. I kept my Ti Bikes for many years and then gave them to friends. These frames will live on and still produce great rides for many more years.
I hope they do! 🙂👍🏻
In 2012 I had a ti frame, built by Jim Kish ( Kish Titanium), built up with a 10 speed mechanical groupset and all the parts I wanted. It is still my primary bike and looks and feels the same now as the day it was delivered, which is to say like new. Since then, I've watched as the bike industry has gone mad and cyclists eat it up. So glad I never bought in to the scam.
We few, we happy few, we band of titanium brothers. 😎👍🏻
My 2011 carbon frame has a crack…bike shop tekkie found it. A lot happier than me finding it on a ride. I loved my steel Cinelli in the 1970s. Having a titanium would be a dream
I have a litespeed firenze and a bianchi xr4. I ride my litespeed way more. Its more comfortable, feels stronger and don't have to worry about it being damaged easily. The xr4 is very nice and it does feel a bit faster. Could be the wheels are 50mm on it compared to 38mm on the litespeed or the lighter weight of the bike. I sure have to worry way more about wear and tear on the bianchi. At the end of the day I enjoy both for what they offer and know the litespeed will outlive the bianchi and perhaps even me:).
UPDATE. I ran over a construction sized staple/nail and by the time I realized I had a flat it had dug a scratch through all 3 layer's of paint on the inside of the chainstay on the xr4:(.
Lovely comment! Safe travels!
I have a Litespeed and a Bianchi as well,except my Bianchi is steel which is heavier but still rides like new,a sweet ride.
CF makes any shape directional, has superior weight/strenght ratio. It makes it best material for bikes - especially for me, as I love to ride in mountains, and I produce barely 100W average. My first passo Stelvio I've done on 15.5 kilo clunker on steel frame, steel chainrings, crankset and rims - it took me 4 hours when I was 31, my last took me 2.5 hrs on 5.5kilo Scott Addict Ltd. when I was 61. Of course there is nothing for free - You cannot treat your composite with hammer, but hey - I've got almost 100 000km on my 2007 Addict and it's still ticking, while my previous, almost twice heavier alu frame I broke a year after purchase, just riding uphill on Tenerife. If you comparing bike with tanks I'll dare to compare it to free flying models I was making them for decades for competitive sport. When we started making them of CF ( first stolen from Soviet military complex ), we brought them to superior competitive level. I can further explain Ti weaknesses, or Alu PA9 ( 7075 ) weak points, or 6061. I machine Ti and those alloys especially for bike parts nowadays. In the past for very demanding, extremelly lightweight, strong, still possibly stiffest flying models. When most problems we sorted out by modern composites, especially CF, to level where propulsion had to be cut by 30%, because models starded flying beyond airfield. 😄
Well you can make shapes with Ti or aluminium, especially now we have 3D printing. As for “strength to weight” Ti bikes are many times stronger than carbon, if we wanted them to be as fragile as carbon they would be lighter. But who wants Ti bike you can snap? Interesting that another TH-cam channel did a test between a Ti bike and a carbon bike and the Ti bike climbed up a mountain faster every time even though is was slightly heavier… 😉
I always like watching your videos. You always make arguments that make sense. Keep it up and ride safe
Ha ha I’m glad I make sense to at least someone! 😂 Thank you. 🙂🙏🏻
Great discussion totally agree. Thanks. KB
Thank you Sir, all the best! 🙂
I purchased a specialized tarmac frame, the carbon s works version, in 2008. It had been used and ridden everyday and was third hand. The frame was cracked, but I got a local boat builder to fix it up and he said that for an 20 extra grams it was stronger than new. He explained that as long as the frame was not stressed above tolerances it would last forever. The bike transformed my racing at the time and I still use it on my indoor trainer.
While I am considering a titanium frame for mountain biking and bike packing, I am not sure if I agree with all aspects of your video.
I think if titanium had advantages over carbon, the pros would use it. No question. The teams look for every advantage.
For recreational riders like ourselves I can see many advantages of having a titanium bike.
I love disk brakes and would never go back, although rim brakes were lighter than the brand new discs, I doubt that is the case now
Technology such as through axils is annoying but look at the advantages.
I could alao never go back to cable gears for normal cycling and racing
I did explain it all in the video. You still said exactly the same thing… 😅 “but if titanium was better the pros would be using it.” Nope, that’s the point. And “the pro teams look for every advantage.” Of that were true they would still be running tubular tyres with latex tubes that have been proven time and again to be faster than anything else. The pros often ride kit they don’t like and don’t work well, the famous “fu*king SRAM!” Screamed by a pro rider at his electronic group set comes to mind.
You're definitely right about the safety of disk brakes. Especially in bad weather. But there's a maintenance problem and cost involved in buying new tech. I still ride my time fluidity bike from 2013, I think. It barely fits 28mil tires. Has rim brakes and everything. But it also fits me well, and I can service it myself without having to buy a million different tools. Has no proprietary tech on it. Fits any seatpost or stem.
Plus, i just can't justify spending 5-6 or even 10 grand on a bicycle. It's just insane to me.
Lol this youtuber is a cult leader feeding into their cults
@@5gvaccinator343 I'm mostly riding cross/trekking/hybrid bikes (some call them fitness bikes now I think). One is 2015 aluminium frame and as high-tech as it goes for that time (Deore XT hollowtech, disc brakes), the other is 1999 Cr-Mo steel frame (also pretty good for its time). The only disadvantage I see with the more modern one is weight (~2kg heavier as it has a suspension fork), everything else is better on it (stiffer, better power transfer, better braking & general handling). The biggest problem with rim brakes for me is the wear of the rim that eventually needs to be replaced. With disc brakes changing the pads & rotors myself is not a problem at all. I leave the drivetrain work to a proffessional (with both bikes). I don't really see the maintenance problem you mentioned, could you elaborate?
If the professionals went back to riding steel frames the fans would not be able to afford to buy one. It’s not the steel itself that is expensive but the process of manufacturing the tubing; Reynolds, Columbus, Vitus etc etc. I have a Reynolds 753 frame (Cinelli Lugs) equipped with a Shimano Dura Ace 7800 groupset and it rides like a dream . Steel is Real.
The later German tanks were also notoriously unreliable, especially the transmissions. Some were so heavy that only a tank of similar size could recover them if they were damaged or broke down . The Russian T34 had a superb 2 stroke diesel engine.
Also vast numbers of German tanks were assembled by slave labour
Well, those mostly were prototypes... overengineered....
Fortunately the allies never used their 'prisoners' for work, right? lol
@hellebarde1450 these weren't "prisoners of war" they were civilians from occupied territory who were worked to death who bravely sabotaged production at the risk of instant execution.. Can you give examples of similar scenarios from the allied side ?
@@Andy-co6pn Google for Gulag...
That’s true. They had grand ambitions and the skills but didn’t have the money or resources to complete anything to a reliable standard. Also it’s hard to make reliable products when someone is bombing your factory night and day. 😅
In full agreement with the content of the video.
A few years ago I read an article by someone in the cycling industry that a well known bicycle manufacturer were getting their frames made in China for 200 dollars each and sold in Europe and North America for 5000. $ . That was in regards to carbon .
Now in the area of steel frames ,which you can also include titanium if you can’t complete the frame build within 40hrs , you’ve practically lost any profit.
I ve. always compared a carbon bike to a disposable lighter.
Yes, they are built as throw away items. It’s really something that shouldn’t be happening. 🙈
Thank you. Great to have your input as always! 🙏🏻
Only a few brands like Look and Time produce their carbon frames in their own workshops
Good video and I agree with you, the relentless pushing of product is the reason we don't see ti frames in many cycling disciplines where they may well be more suitable - or steel and aluminium for that matter. "Race Sunday sell Monday".
I do think "development" does occur at a faster rate as a consequence and, regardless of where one feels peak bike is, it probably wouldn't of got there if we didn't live in such a profligate world. Who wants to drive a trabbie when a VW golf is available?
Incidentally I, as a rider for over 30yrs, was seriously looking at titanium a few years back. I didn't go there in the end but do know two cyclists who did, both had cracked frames - warrantied obviously - and both thought it was a for life purchase.
I'm also friendly with the owner of a very long standing and well regarded lbs who sells and services high end bikes. He, over the years, has seen lots of cracked ti frames, even more ali frames and more again failed carbon.
Seems only steel, death and taxes are forever - I know...steel fails too.
Yes nothings is truly “forever” and everything “can” fail. At the end of the day it’s a calculated risk where we spend the money. But the odds are slightly in your favour with say and US made Ti frame or a British/Italian made Steel frame in my opinion. 😊
All the best and safe riding! ❤️
Carbon is just better for racing, it is much lighter, stiffer, but can also have compliance engineered in, and there's much more flexibility for shaping it to be more aero.
My best bike is a Litespeed Archon (from the look of your top tube looks like you might have the same), and I like it, I bought it because I like the idea of it and I expect it will outlast me. I've raced on it, won races on it and as an amateur it's not going to be holding me back but honestly carbon is just better for racing. The Archon is very stiff (stiffer than usual for Ti) and I have more comfortable carbon.
I also rode a Ti Van Nicholas Amazon from Ireland to Indonesia (missed Brunei)... I like Ti. But I also have carbon bikes and it's easy to understand why no pro has raced on it since the 90s, just about any performance metric, carbon is better.
Carbon fiber is not stiffer than titanium. Carbon bends and breaks at about 740kg whereas titanium bends at around 2400kg. So which is stiffer?
Carbon is definitely the most convenient material for tailoring the local and overall stiffness and 'tube' shapes and tune the ride feel, but it could be done with other materials but would just cost a lot more to do so - you see a lot of hydroforming in Al frames these days but its significantly more difficult and consequently more expensive to do that with Ti.
Mine is the T1SL and it’s 2 gen above your frame. Yours is well sort after for super light builds online, but people do complain it lacks stiffness. That’s not a problem with the T1SL, in a online review they said it was in the top 10 stiffest bikes they had ever tried.
I think comfort is underrated as a performance metric, I feel so much better racing on Ti or steel than I do on carbon. I feel tired, and fatigued on carbon and full of energy on titanium. That feeling is worth more than a 2 Watt aero advantage you might get from a carbon bike. Everyone I know who switched to a modern LS would never go back, even people who race. My friend bought a brand new TCR advanced, he tried my T1SL 1 time to see what it was about. The next week he put his TCR up for sale and bought a T1SL. 😆
@@Dunning_Kruger_Is__On_TH-cam there's more to the problem than what you're suggesting. The shape of objects massively alters the stiffness or compliance of the overall thing. A flat sheet of a material and a triangular frame of the same material have entirely different bending points despite being the exact same material.
@@Dunning_Kruger_Is__On_TH-cam If you understand mechanics it will be enough to say CF makes any possible shape directional, and has superior weight/strenght ratio. If you love to ride in mountains you love it lightweight.
I started off years ago(age 9, now 57) on steel frames(Schwinn/Jamis/Bianchi/Lemond) when I made the jump from a Lemond Zurich(Reynold 853) to my first titanium bike a 2002 Litespeed Arenberg. Last year I purchased a Litespeed Ultimate rim brake version with DT Swiss PR1400 Dicut OXIC wheels and not once did I actually give a carbon frame a second thought. I look at the comparison of frame materials from a manufacturers point of view, carbon frames are high volume/extremely high yield and this makes them very attractive for mass marketing. Titanium is low volume/high yield, though I am starting to see more boutique brands testing the niche titanium market, as my hypothesis on carbon frames may be starting to plateau(are the manufacturers looking for the next marketing products?), now off my soap box.
Off subject, While I'm not opposed to disc brakes and prefer rim brakes, I realize rim brakes days are numbered. I'm now in the market for an endurance, longer distance bike and I'm highly tempted to replace my 2002 Litespeed Arenberg with a 2024 Litespeed Arenberg(12sp 105 mechanical and hydraulic disc brakes, but most importantly a much more age friendly relaxed riding position).
You Sir made an excellent decision… and then kept making excellent decisions! That bike sounds perfect, I love DT Swiss wheels and the OXIC is about the best aluminium wheel available.
Well the days of rim might be numbered, but unless you want to do gravel/off road Disc simply isn’t needed.
Perhaps custom might be an option for the “perfect” bike for your needs?
All the best and safe riding! 🙂👍🏻
It would be very interesting to know how many frames a pro team uses over the season. Even more interesting to have pros limited to 3 frames per year.
Me too! I did actually mention this in another video called “Pro cycling has a problem and I know how to fix it.” I basically call for no support cars and no bike replacements (unless damaged in a crash) for the entire season. 😃
another reason for the lack of titanium frames in the peloton is that the pros don't need to give a tinker's cuss how long the bike will last, a huge factor in why many people like titanium as you mentioned. however, a pro could use a fresh frame every stage of the TDF.
if the UCI allowed it, each bike could be designed to last exactly one stage, disintegrating 5 metres past the finish. I remember it was someone like chapman or murray talking about formula one engines, saying that the ideal engine life was one that blew up on the second time you started it (long before the modern engine component limits that are now imposed).
Ha ha great comment. I’m imagining a rider who was late across the line and his bike is starting to fall apart as he approaches the finish! 😂
@@reginaldscot165 every stage just a trail of delaminated carbon fibre littering its course!
@@reginaldscot165 you don't have to imagine it - there's a rider everyday in every race 10-60km to go having to replace their POS bike with SRAM!
Dude. Aero makes a massive difference. GCN showed the difference in time over a course with various generation Pinarellos. Titanium can’t be moulded into aero shapes easily like carbon can. You can 3D print a titanium frame but I wouldn’t trust it over a welded tubular frame.
So yes you just invalidated your argument because 3D printing is a thing. Also yes it’s difficult to shape Ti tubes but not impossible, the issue is profit! And finally you are over estimating the impact of a aerodynamic frame. It’s less than 2% of the total drag of rider and bike. Titanium has other advantages that would more than make up for that small loss and that’s assuming that the frame is totally not aerodynamic.
Good discussion Reg -- btw which gloves are you using here? cheers
Thank you. I’m using the BBB cooldown gloves. Code (BBW-56) But they aren’t anything special. I use them because they don’t have much padding (I don’t like thick gloves) and they are cheap. That’s about all I can say about them. 😅
@@reginaldscot165 Cool, thanks -- they seem to have a nice patch of terrycloth, good for sweaty brows on the uphill
To each their own. But I like riding metal.
My last bike (alu) lasted 20 years - now it's on my turbo trainer. The trick is keeping a sharp eye out for corrosion.
I'd love a Ti disc brake bike, but I've got kids at uni. So the new bike is also alloy.
Not interested in carbon.
Cheers
Good on you! Hope your kids are doing well! 🙏🏻🙂
I really like what you said about carbon being worn out after a few years.. I am riding two aluminum bikes (allez sprint Gen 1 & 2), after switching from carbon. Gen 1 for traveling, Gen 2 sitting at home or for racing. Had to change the frame once because of unrepairable dent on the seat stay. Titanium on the other hand, would have been able to sustain the impact or if not, dent repairable. I think it would make sense for me to switch my travel bike for a Litespeed
Oh yeah titanium bikes make excellent travel bikes. 🙂👍🏻
Which litespeed would you recomend if I where to invest in a do it all for the rest of my life bike? 97% for Road, but also the possibility to do put on some gravel wheels down the line?
Humm, that’s a difficult question. Personally I’m reluctant to suggest something. Simply because I don’t know enough about what your intentions are or your ride conditions.
For example I ride almost exclusively on road, but sometimes I will take a short cut down a gravel path. Just light gravel. I use a normal road bike with rim brakes and 23 mm tyres. I find that it is more than rideable on such a bike. So for me I would go with a real road bike, and also the added advantage of titanium is even on gravel it makes for a relatively comfortable ride.
However if your tastes change or the gravel is heavy duty, or if you mean the three rides out of 10 will be completely on gravel for many kilometres. Then a gravel Bike is more suitable. However, a gravel a bike is not the best option for long distances on the road, it will be heavy and slow and you will be forced to buy disc breaks that a bit of a pain to maintain.
By the sounds of it an “all road bike” is an option you might consider, it’s a road bike, with disc brakes, that can fit a wider tyre. So suitable for light to medium gravel riding. At Litespeed that would be the a T5 Disc, Cherohala or possibly the Flint.
But if you ask me I’d just buy a road bike and A) just not do a lot of gravel. Or B) also buy a proper Gravel bike for days when I really want to do gravel. Or C) Buy an nice Ti road bike for 97% of the time and get a cheap steel or aluminium (second hand maybe) MTB for everything else, you can even get a 80/90s MTB and turn it into a pretty awesome Gravel bike as very little cost. If you are only going to spend 3% of your time on it I think this is a good option. 🙂👍🏻
^go with option C) for sure!
What do you think of the litespeed ultimate?
I have an ultimate and a classic, call the guys in Chattanooga and they are very helpful at least from my experience plus they have some good sales from the emails.
I would go for a T-Lab X3. A gravel bike good enough for road racing. The bike can take up to 114kg rider, so bike packing or touring is not an issue. Very stable at high speed.
nice video👍, there's an advantage of cycling people being into new things, that's second hand market, is full of treasures like really nice ring breaks bikes, nice ring breaks wheels. thanks to that I can ride on a nice one
Absolutely! 👍🏻❤️
Thank you 😊
I have a Moots Vamoots RSL and love it, with carbon rims very smooth the only thing I'd change is the gearing so I can climb hills better
Sounds wonderful! Happy cycling!
Problem with Ti is if ain't welded oxygen free, it can crack. And then it's a warranty job or an expensive repair. I'd never buy a s/h titanium frame for that reason: Often a lifetime guarantee for the buyer, but that's lost if the frame is passed on. Personally I'd still just go 853 or 953 or their Columbus equivalents.
Well, yes, if something isn’t made properly it can be a problem. But the same can be said for almost any product. 😉
THe problem with carbon is either oxygen is present or not it will crack eventually.. so other than Ti, i would go steel
You know, if the welds on bridges are not oxygen free, the welds will crack...shielding gas when welding is a basic principle.
It's not titanium, but I'm about to resurrect my Columbus Max frame - I love that frame.
I'm just getting back into riding, and I note a bunch of people are buying pro-spec gear, and then bitching about the cost.
Anyway, you got a follow; good vid.
Thank you and that sounds like wonderful news! ❤️👍🏻
Quite right!
Thank you 🙏🏻
You can put a way bigger brand sticker on a big square carbon tube.
It’s been 50 years since I raced. I was on the wait list to get a Teledyne TI bike the first to come out on the market. They were slow in production and I never got mine. 30 years later I was still riding my steel race bike when my family bought me a Giant TCR. 20 years later I still ride the TCR.
Off road I have a Santa Cruz super light 08 this bike got me hooked on disk brakes and suspension.
My current favorite bikes are my German trekking bikes, a Cube and Focus both aluminum . They go anywhere and are fun to ride and I can take them on tour. Heavy like a German tank and built to last.
I now like any bike I am riding. Just happy to be riding.
Good for you, stay happy and healthy! 🙂👍🏻
Couldn't agree more 😬
Cool 😎
Case in point: Andreas Kirschner's Ti frame manufacturer Falkenjagd 3D-printed an entire Ti bike frame seamlessly in one piece as a proof-of-concept for their Aristos series. Set him back a mere 40 000 Euro in production cost...
Ha ha that’s nothing! I find that kind of money down the back of the sofa. 😂 NOT! 😉
I have a Litespeed from 1997 with Campy 9 and bought another Litespeed in 2021. Best bike out there and the frame lasts, wouldn’t buy carbon frame for anything.
Reginald new viewer, where is the video from?
Hello! Great to hear your good fortune with excellent bikes. 🙂 The video is from Brunei South East Asia. 👍🏻
Looking forward to hear your opinion on 3D printed titanium bike. Or maybe just give me your assumption. Is it going to be as strong as traditionally welded frame? I read somewhere that they use titanium powder (I don't really know what they use to glue the material together on the printing process) and not the usual alloying process. Is it going to be the future of cycling? As some titanium 3D printed bike can be made aero. Like Bossi Strada SS. Or Hi-Lite/Hang Lun bike from China. Because I know the technology still so expensive now but I'm quite sure Chinese will make the cheaper version.
I mentioned it and answered some of your questions in my video about “the worlds best performance road bike.” 🙂 yes it’s titanium powder that is welded together using a laser! Just as I left the welding industry 7 years ago they were experimenting with laser welding, it’s an incredible process and has a lot of potential. However at this early stage I don’t think 3D printed titanium is as strong as a normal Ti tube. I also don’t think you can make the parts as thin as you can the traditional way… yet! It’s theoretically possible, but will need further investment and research. That all costs money and there is no insensitive from the bike industry to push for that as carbon is cheaper and more profitable. 🤷🏻♂️🙂
Aero is free Watts and molding composites into aerodynamic shapes is considerably easier and cheaper than hydro forming metal into aerodynamic shapes.
Easier, but not impossible. Also do you know what the aero advantage is for a carbon aero frame? 😉
It’s almost nothing. The important part is you and your wheels, and that can be made aero on any bike. 🙂
@@reginaldscot165 then why don’t they make 50mm kamtail rims out of alloy? Check out Young’s Modulus.
Could not agree more, I purchased a new Reilly Titanium bike, handmade in Brighton by Reilly cycles two years ago to replace my Colnago carbon framed bike (which has now relegated to the turbo trainer), so much more comfortable, does not creak & groan on a rough road. Looks like the day I got it, not a mark on it. It also comes with a lifetime guarantee and a promise of a half price frame replacement in the event of a serious and unrepairable accident. It has rim brakes and cable gears, simple to maintain. The two carbon bikes I have owned (Colnago & Cannondale) always seemed a little fragile and easily marked.
What a wonderful comment, really sums everything up nicely. 🙂👍🏻
Actually, I am glad these riders switch to carbon fiber: their cast offs are a fraction the price of new. My Seven Cycles titanium/carbon blend cost $800 for the frame versus $6,000 for a new one. It is outfitted with a Campagnolo groupset with rim brakes. My wife has the same and we are thrilled with the bikes. Yes, I know it is not a pure titanium frame, but the bottom bracket, down tube, and all of the union segments for critical strength are titanium.
Sounds great! Happy riding. 🙂👍🏻
Lycra sleeves! Great for keeping the sun off.
And not uncomfortable in hot and humid Asia.
Yes I found out a few years ago that this was way better than covering myself in sunscreen. 😂 Now I just try to cover my skin. 😊
@@reginaldscot165 Yup. Save the screen for the ears, nose, neck and knees! 🖖
It costs $100-$500 to make a carbon frame.... by putting them under pros so the top races can be won on them those frame sell for $2000-$7000. Money talks.
100% true. 🫡
More common sense from you Reginald. I want to replace my aluminium Bianchi rim brake for a titanium rim brake, suggestions? I know Litespeed stopped making rim brake versions.
They may have some old frames on sale? I believe they still sell the T5 and possibly the Ultimate in rim. If not way not try second hand off Facebook?
If you want new, it really depends on your budget. Some China brands will make you a completely custom frame for less than half the price of a US made frame. However I can’t speak to the quality. After that any US or UK brand that still makes rim should be all fine and about the same. The only ones I’d personally avoid is Van Nic, Lynskey, and Moots. (For different reasons)
I’m sorry I can’t be more help at this time. Perhaps it’s something I should look into for a video. 🙂
May I suggest a Tommasini Mach Ti? You can get a custom frame in rim, disk, and internal cable routed disk. If you are in the US, checkout the Red Rose Imports for Tommasini frames. The builders at Litespeed actually taught Master Builder Irio Tomassini’s five builders (four are still with Tommasini) how to craft titanium frames, the way Litespeed did. Absolutely wonderful machines!
I have a Van Nicholas Skeiron that I bought second hand. A 4 year old frame that i have no qualms buying 2nd hand without worrying about its condition from wear and tear. I don't have a bottomless pocket and prefer a good frame that will last me for years. I don't ride very fast and am thoroughly enjoying my ride on this bike. Fyi, i have a mechanical 105 groupset, so no worries about obsolescence.
to add to your comment on product longevity, i know a story about a german wheel lathe manufacturer that makes a product that is so good, that their product lasts for decades and eventually they were bought over by a Canadian company because they couldn't sell enough equipment to sustain the business. the new buyers "reduced" the product lifespan so that in a couple of years, the user will need to buy new equipment.
Your story checks out. It’s standard practice nowadays, I don’t know when this started happening but it feels like it became the norm sometime in the 1990s? As an example my father bought our first Panasonic microwave in 1988. When I left the UK in 2016 he was still using the same microwave. Since I set up my own home I have had 3 microwaves in 5 years. I know want the problem is with the 2 broken ones but parts are difficult to get here. 🤷🏻♂️
Like our parents are so fond of saying ... Things nowadays sure don't last as long as they use to 😜. Maybe I'm old school, but a metal bike feels a lot more reassuring compared to carbon. Having said that, carbon wheels, carbon forks seems to be still ok. But they are somewhat relatively cheaper to replace compared to a high end carbon frame.
Best truth about bicycles video i've ever seen !!!
Fuck the industrialists that only care about making money for themselves , instead of making quality for the consumer !!!
Thank you 🙏🏻
I have a Litespeed Icon 2007 with full Campagnolo Super Record group Set …been hammered and looks and rides like new, my go to bike, have a Colnago C60 and it comes no where near it. Titanium is top dog 👍
No I’m sorry that’s not possible. I’m told by all the carbon fanboys who have never ridden a titanium bike that carbon is just better and ALL titanium bikes crack at the welds. 😂
So nice story and I appreciate you backing me up but sadly it’s just not realistic. 😉
Happy riding! ❤️
Hi,
By the way J. Anquetil, E. Merckx and B. Hinault each won 5 TDF on steel bikes. Why the actual riders do not use steel bikes ?
Eddy also won on a titanium bike.
I’ve owned two titanium bikes and the frames failed on each. I’m in my mid sixty’s and weigh 155 pounds, I’m fit but not an animal. Litespeed refused to honor the lifetime warranty on my bike saying that the warranty was not for my lifetime but rather for the lifetime of the frame which is taken to be eight (8) years. Motobecane did honor their warranty. So now I’m riding a generic Taiwan built carbon bike with Dura Ace 9000 components and Kysrium Elite wheels for less than the price of just a Ti frame…
That’s a disappointing story. I had a similar experience with a carbon bike, a very expensive custom made carbon bike, it was more expensive than my current titanium bike. After 6 months it cracked around the BB, I tried to return it for a refund and the owner of the shop not only refused to give my money back but threatened me with legal action if I told anyone! 😳 A very upsetting experience. I regularly get comments from older gentleman that have been riding the same titanium bike for 20 or more years and are overjoyed with the experience. However sometimes products fail and it’s a real tragedy when the manufacturer refuses to do the right thing. 🥺
Interesting thing you mentioning aero bikes. You may already know this but back in the mid noughties Trek released both aero and non aero versions of the Madone 5 series. Lance Armstrong always chose to ride the non aero version of the 5.9 without the fin shaped seat tube. I'm also curious on you opinion of the 5.9. A lot of people consider it to be the greatest carbon road bike ever made. Did you ever get a chance to ride one? If so what did you think of it?
the 2009-10 version eventually got hairline cracks on bottle cage bolts, fork dropout showed stress points, bb shell no longer held bearings securely but not the source of creaking' and i have a proprietary seat post i can sell you.
No unfortunately I have not. But that’s interesting about Armstrong, I remember watching him on TV… those were the days my friend. 😌
All I have ridden from TREK is the new stuff, I have had a customer in the shop with a Mad-one 4.3 but never got to ride it. The old stuff was definitely better, lighter, more responsive… easier to fix! 😂
Lance’s early bikes were Litespeed branded as Treks the aero time trial bike he rode was a Litespeed Blade.
@@carlosgaspar8447 I'm talking about the 2004-2005 versions. Very different bikes from the 2009 version.
Interesting stuff. I ride carbon steel and alloy bikes. There is use case for all. I simply don't have the budget for titanium. My go to bike is a GT carbon grade. The frame is less than a kilo, it has 25mm of vertical compliance and is stiff where it matters. Plus afford able. Titanium simply doesn't have the same envelope and cost more.
If you have money for carbon you have money for titanium. My titanium bike was less than the carbon equivalent. 🙂👍🏻
Thanks Mate !
Welcome friend!
Aluminum is lighter than titanium... not many know that
That’s technically true. But titanium frames can be built lighter than aluminium because of the tube wall thickness. 🙂👍🏻
Indeed. Ti is stronger, so less material is needed,
And aluminium is not really repairable
I Ride A 2024 Lynskey Pro GR Ti Customized With Ultegra Di2 12-Speed. Most Comfortable Bike I've Ever Ridden.
Awesome. 😎
Agree with the marketing however Titanium also produces lot of environmental impact as recycling it is still low therefore steel wins at all fronts
But… as in theory I’d doesn’t degrade or rust so you never need to? And it has a higher scrap value. 🤔 It’s a tricky one that… but I do agree steel bikes are the smartest choice for most people. 👍🏻🙂
Reginald,interesting you mentioned german tanks. A problem with them was on the eastern front and other polar regions the engines would seize because the tolerances were so fine.
Interesting history there, I also heard it was so cold that the diesel fuel became a thick viscous material and simply wouldn’t go through the engine. 😅
@@reginaldscot165 It gets cold in Germany but maybe Rudy Diesel hadn't figured on -50c in Siberia,anti-freeze no longer works.
can you please send timecode where explanation starts?
3:31
I have been riding metal bikes for 50 years which includes racing in my twenties, and I have yet to wear a single frame out. But if I was a pro today I would obviously race whatever I was told to ride which mean carbon. But I'm not a pro so I ride what I can afford to maintain.
Good for you 😉👍🏻
One good reason: Carbon bikes weigh less than ti bikes. Lighter bikes climb faster from what I have read.
Not a good reason. The weight limit is 6.8. The new disc carbon aero bikes struggle to hit 7kg nowadays! My titanium bike is 6.4kg at race weight, 6.5kg when I have all my lights on training tyres on it.
@@reginaldscot165 Okay, when I was looking into getting a Lynskey frame, it was nearly 4 lbs. My Focus Cayo Evo disc frame is under 900 grams, I was led to believe that a ti frame that light would be very flexy hence the weight penalty for a stiff (enough) ti frame! I would love to get a ti frame, but for my budget I find many more affordable carbon fiber frames available. As far as longevity, my buddies have been riding the same carbon frames for over 10 years and 100,000 miles. Thats a good lifespan in my opinion. I keep looking and I will try a ti frame when I find one at a good price! Thanks for the videos!
@@reginaldscot165 My Focus Cayo Evo disc frame is under 900 grams, Litespeed T1SL is 1150 grams. The team riders would need to use even lighter (possibly weaker) components to get down to UCI weight limit with a 1/2 lb+ heavier ti frame. If I had the budget I would get a ti frame today, but they choices are wider for affordable carbon frames. I keep looking and when I find a ti frame at the right price I will pull the trigger! Love the videos, keep them coming.
@@reginaldscot165what frame and fork do you have. I've never seen a titanium frame & fork as light as carbon.
Titanium bikes were used in the pro tours in the 90s,mostly rebranded a.k.a Eddy Merckx made by Litespeed. Colnago had ti bikes too (not sure what/if teams used them) Some riders had actual Litespeed ti bikes like the Ultimate. Agree with you it is all about marketing and planned obsolescence,long live bikes made to last,most of us are not professionals with a team and sponsors to pay for everything.
Very true, fun fact Litespeed was making the Ti bikes for Colnago as well. 👍🏻🙂
My local bike shop has a Lynksey titanium road bike with full 105 for £999.00 right now. People dont get it. I spent 26 years in advertising, I work for the NHS now but I see through the hype. Got a Sabbath Silk Route for £1600 that's a full TI touring bike and a Ribble endurance TI, oh and a Spa Elan 2 TI. Don't need another bike before the grave, never ridden carbon, never seen the point.
Amazing! And to think the 105 is about $500 and the wheels are probably another $200 so the frame is almost nothing. 🤷🏻♂️
@@reginaldscot165 yes that's about right. You can get a disc brake 105 TI bike new right now for about 2 grand right now, go get em
The truth is that they don't ride Ti because that is not what is provided to them. It really is that simple.
True. 👍🏻
Overall agree. But other metal’s are likewise durable. Titanium might be the most, but my Turbo Levo aluminum is 4 years and 3,000 miles and looks perfect. I do agree carbon not only will fail, must fail. That’s because of chemistry. Carbon is highly reactive and will oxidize, and will fail.
Carbon is glue and fabric, it’s natural state is a liquid and a flexible material. You need to force it into a stable suspension. The natural state of metal is a solid ridged material. You need to force it to be anything else, like a liquid for example. So when you say it must fail, you are right, at some point it will return to its natural state. Might take a long time however. But they do say carbon gets more flexible with age. 🤷🏻♂️
Probably the logic is that on a durable titanium bike similarly like on a steel bike all the equipment will eventually wear out before the frame itself,so one would have to think whether to invest in replacing it and saving the frame,whereas on a carbon frame the equipment on it will fail more or less simultaneously with the frame itself,so one could scrap it without any doubts.
So rather than replacing a worn out chain ring you throw away the crank? 😃
I hate to bust your bubble, but wheels will wear out far earlier than frames, especially on rim brakes. Of course chain rings and other replaceable parts also. That is if the bike is actually owned by a cyclist :-) If it is kept outside a steel bike might rust before its equipment, but that is negligence on the owner, not the bike's fault,.
@@reginaldscot165 the kind of thing people would do. Saved a steel bike from going into the trash container, as neighbours said it was useless as it had no pedals on it.
Of course the elephant in the room you didnt mention was although the pros bikes look like the ones we can buy, thats where the similarity ends.
That’s actually very true, they aren’t even made in the same factory! I hear that they are heavier than the ones in the shop because the BBs are reinforced for extra stiffness? 🙂👍🏻
@@reginaldscot165 I would also think that tbh. But i guess still the same factory but maybe higher trained personal doing their frames. But I wouldn't argue against that they adjust layering to the needs of a pro racer that can produce 1700-2000W peak power which we are not capable of
After two fancy bikes with Enve carbon forks, I want to go back to a handmade steel fork. They just make the whole thing feel more alive.
Yes I agree, carbon forks suck.
Carbon bikes have a much greater environmental footprint than steel or ti or al.... irrespective of how long the bike lasts, only referring to the manufacturing process.. no one talks about this...
Correct! I mentioned this in my video “The worlds best performance road bike.” Yes 40% more pollution than a metal bike and no recycling for carbon fiber at this time. 🙁
@@reginaldscot165 When the lifespan of a metal bike vs. carbon is added into the mix, the metal bike is a much more environmentally wise choice
Same reason why lightbulb companies intentionally produce bulbs that fail after a couple of years. You don't want to make something too durable or you'll dry up the cash flow.
That’s very true. I often tell people about the lightbulb conspiracy. 😄
Yet again you make some very good points and then dilute them with blatant untruths. Just like there are good steel bikes and cheap steel bikes there are also good carbon bikes and cheap, poor riding ones. You say they are pumping out several carbon frames per hour but high quality ones can take a couple of days to produce and requires precision craftsmanship just like high quality steel bikes do. Titanium bikes are very nice, I own one, but a quality carbon bike such as Time or Look is an exquisite piece of work, not plastic junk as you suggest.
I’m glad you mentioned Time,
as that was going to be my example. Firstly, the amount of time it takes to mould a carbon frame at the Time factory (this is mentioned by someone who went to the factory to see the process) is 15 minutes for the prep and 20 minutes for the process. Now the sanding and painting does take considerably longer before the frame is ready to sell. (the same could be said about titanium frames, even after welding there is more machining and polishing to be done.)
When I said “they pump out carbon frames several by the hour” I wasn’t wrong, especially in the big brand name factories in China. Also, I don’t believe Time are in the Pro tour? So it wouldn’t be pertinent to the convention to talk about smaller companies making carbon bikes. On top of all of that I’ve seen several videos of carbon frames cut up and assessed by carbon experts and even brands like Time get criticised for manufacturing defects.
In fact no brand seems to get away unscathed and without criticism in the carbon world, even the very best, like Time. So I stand by what I said and feel it was not an unfair assessment of the situation mentioned in the video. 🙂
All the best and safe riding!
@@reginaldscot165 15 minutes? Really? There are about 400 pieces on a Look carbon frame that need to be carefully hand laid. There is no conspiracy and the process is well documented. There are fascinating videos that show the whole process in detail and I highly recommend watching them! Speaking of Look, they have had a strong presence in the peloton for decades. There are other quality manufactures too, 3t has developed a new method of making frames and can produce one in about 8 hours. An improvement as far as time but at the expense of millions in very high tech robots.
Your Lightspeed is a fantastic frame but for every one of those there are thousands of cheap, heavy, low quality, poor riding steel bikes out there. Just the same as for every single magnificent Time frame out there you'll see thousands of cheap, poorly made, mass produced carbon frames. It's not the material, it's the design and craftsmanship.
I’ve been riding a titanium Litespeed Classic for 24 years. It is still amazing. I have no reason to ever get another bike
I love comments like this. For so many reasons.
All the best and safe riding my friend! ❤️🙂
My dream bike is a recumbent titanium with rim brakes - up yours, UCI!
Nice, that’s way faster than anything in the pro tour.
What is a location of this video? From the signage, it seems like this is Brunei.
That’s correct. 👍🏻
Am wondering if 3D printed titanium frames are the future?
I mentioned this in a previous video and said that I might be and would potentially revolutionise the bike industry for better. Completely modular and fully recyclable bikes in custom design and shape.
But it won’t happen because it’s not in the best interest of the manufacturer.
🤷🏻♂️
@@reginaldscot165 There is a 'German' company called Falkenjagd which produces Ti frames (in Taiwan). As far as I know they produce already several 3D printed Ti parts as the stems and few others. And as I heard they push that topic forward.... let's see how things will develop...
Drivers are slower today due to the lack of doping, there are strict controls. It has nothing to do with bikes.
Ha ha ha ha! That’s a good one. 😂👍🏻
Very interesting and good points made. I would have been 100% behind what you were saying if you had been riding Campy 🤣. Hard to be advocating for the top quality while riding Shimano's shoved down your throat latest incompatible marginal upgrade. Peace and love... keep fighting the good fight.
I’m using SRAM in this video. But I did try Campy and I’m sorry to say I didn’t like it. I just find Shimano smoother, quieter and easier to shift. The old shimano stuff from the 90s and early 2000s has been incredibly reliable to me as well.
But I have not issue if you prefer Campy, I can certainly see it’s advantages. 👍🏻
Laying up the carbon takes a lot of skill. It is laborious, but takes diligence. That is why cheap Asian labour is used to keep costs down. Welding titanium requires skill too. But rolling the tubes is made by machine. The cost is the material and the skill and care in welding. Also because of the labour many titanium frames are welded and made in Asia.
Personally I believe I could lay up a carbon bike if I had an hour or 2 of training, I don’t think I could do the same with titanium welding. (Probably because I have 5 years of industrial Robotic welding) Putting sheets of carbon may take a little patience, but with Ti welding (the most difficult to weld) you need the right gas amount, the right speed, the right angle, the right voltage, the right amperage and spotlessly clean material to even stand a chance of making a good weld.
Titanium is a more expensive material to begin with so that’s true. And yes, many titanium frames are made in China, but not by US, UK and Italian brands. The ones made in China with a very few exceptions are made by Chinese companies for Chinese brands. Unlike carbon frames that are Western brands but all made in China. So for example the big 4 US Ti brands are all made in the US. 🙂
Could you make one without voids or doped with too much dripping epoxy.and making it heavy?
More comfortable? That haven’t heard about titanium. I do like Litespeed. I ride a 1996 Trek 5299. (Original owner)
5200
Yes, titanium and steel bikes are famous for their comfort. 🙂
@@reginaldscot165 - I don't want to go back to steel.
I would love a titanium bikr
Do it! 😉
Drinking coffee with my alu bike by my side
Nice 👌🏻
Carbon fiber is the ultimate road bike frame and fork material. It has the best stiffness to weight ratio and is the easiest to make into aero shapes. Formula 1 cars use carbon fiber for their body for the same reason. I also know someone who's titanium seat post snapped off from fatigue. Not all carbon is equal and it can certainly have quality control problems.
I looks like my work is not done… 😂
@@reginaldscot165 if you love titanium that's great but it's expensive, almost impossible to repair and has a poorer fatigue life than top quality carbon. Rubbish carbon is rubbish. You could take a hammer to my carbon top tube and I could get it fixed where you couldn't even tell. The aero advantage of some carbon frames can be measured. It's very significant. When I got my first aero helmet at very high speeds I could feel the reduction in drag on my head, and the wind noise in your ears gets quieter.
My dream bike is a titanium bike....someday I will have one.
Wonderful! ❤️
What we prefer as individual amateurs does not matter. In addition to this video you should show the evidence that a titanium frame would be better than a carbon frame for pro cyclists performances
Yes what you prefer doesn’t matter, that’s completely true. 👍🏻 How do you propose I do that? Just asking because that data doesn’t exist. Ti would perform the same. Or possibly better, as you get less beaten up riding Ti than you do on carbon. Everything else the carbon bike can do Ti can also do. But the point is, if they were to use steel as you mentioned in your other comment what difference would it make? What I mean is, if they were all on steel would you stop watching the sport?
I agree 😂
Cool 😎
Uh, duh ya . Carbon fails so Spe, Tre, Cann, others sell more frames. Likewise gravel dust wears out components faster, tubeless sells more consumables, and hydrolic brakes service loves the mechanic.
So true. 👍🏻
What Ti bike was Reginald riding?
The Litespeed rim brake T1SL. I have a video all about it. Check my channel for “The worlds best performance road bike.”
@@reginaldscot165Thanks for the reply and I enjoyed the perspectives you shared in the video. I have a titanium bike with rim brakes 10 speed Ultegra. It is a fairly light bike, claimed ~17 lb and a few ounces when shipped. It is a Motobecane Le Champion. Trouble is, I've had a couple of near death experiences on fast descents with speed wobble. I'd like another Ti bike but would rather purchase one from a company that has a proven track record of producing high quality, reliable, safe designs. I don't believe Motobecane did any rigorous testing or analysis before simply having a shop in Taiwan pump these bikes out. Litespeed has long been in this business and likely knows better.
If the professionals went back to riding steel frames the fans would not be able to afford to buy one. It’s not the steel itself that is expensive but the process of manufacturing the tubing; Reynolds, Columbus, Vitus etc etc. I have a Reynolds 753 frame (Cinelli Lugs) equipped with a Shimano Dura Ace 7800 groupset and it rides like a dream . Steel is Real.
I think most people can’t afford a 20k bike, I don’t think it being made of steel would make a significant difference. I’d like it if they did return to steel, after all for me bike racing has never really been about the bike.
Most titanium bikes are made in china (&taiwan) and the quality is usually not bad at all (some local european titanium frame manufacturers deliver significantly more inferior quality). Merlin , Baum, Stelbel and other premium manufacturers are certainly on another level but also 10 to 20 times more expensive than their asian competition.
Obviously china can produce a lot of bikes but the quality I would certainly question. Europe and the US definitely has more manufacturers and brands and a longer history of making ti bikes. Certainly if I’m buying a bike for life I’d prefer to go for a western made one. I just trust them slightly more not to screw me… every time I do business with a Chinese company I find myself bent over a barrel with my pants down. 😂
@@reginaldscot165 Most of the old skilled European brazers are either dead or retired now though - China is the only place that can support a skilled cohort of brazers nowadays
i sold my Trek checkpoint SL5 2023 model and got me a 2014 Kona Rove Ti.... best decision i did....
I really like Kona bikes, I have serviced a few old aluminium ones with cantilever brakes. Well made bikes. 👍🏻
My Ti is class and stuck on the Tacx Neo. I need a crap cheap bike so I can get it off.
The less I say about “in door cycling” the better… 🤐
On the plus, sounds like a great bike! 🙂👍🏻
@@reginaldscot165 I forgot to ask what do you polish with? I wipe mine down with WD40. This is one of your most interesting videos for ages!
20+ years on my Merlin Cyrene and it rides as good today as day 1 even after 10's of thousands of miles. Would never own a plastic road bike
Great choice 👌🏻😉
Pros ride in a team which is sponsored and therefore need to ride a certain bike brand. Well, that is not completely true now is it? Just look at Peter Sagan and participation in the Pierre Baguette team. An other thing: why doesn´t retired pros who are no longer sponsored by any brand still not ride titanium bikes or rim brakes for that matter? Don´t get me wrong I have nothing against titanium bikes and would love to own one. But the reason I want a titanium is not because I believe it´s better or faster than a carbon or alu bike. I just like the look of many of them, and I like the fact that there is no paint that get chipped or scratched. I also like that is practically indestructible. I have also heard many say they are really comfortable to ride, and if that is true I would love to experience that. You could argue that many carbon bikes are just as expensive or even more expensive than titanium bikes, but many are not and they also are much more available. If I want to buy a titanium bike I will have to buy it online without having the opportunity to test and experience it and first. You have to pretty invested enthusiast to get hold of a titanium bike, and it will be quite expensive. I truly believe that Pogacar would be able to win a GC on a titanium bike. He managed to win with rim brakes and disc brakes, and he even won with both brake systems using an electronic groupset. Wow! Or not wow. It´s about the rider, not the bike. The bike can of course help you and if two riders are very similar the best bike can certainly be decisive. An other thing: if a team like UAE or Ineos who both have quite a big budget, what is really stopping them from using titanium bikes if they really truly belive they are better than carbon? In a world of marginal gains I refuse to believe that it´s because of some far fetched conspiracy theory.
Good comment. As for if pros ride titanium after they retire, they do. If you do a little research you will find plenty who not only ride titanium but also act as brand ambassadors for titanium brands, like Tom Boonen for example. Also many Pro cyclists have their own bikes at home that they can’t ride while they are working. Because they go against the sponsor, a few Pros that I know of have Ti bikes in that home collection. But I think the point is that it’s not about what’s faster as I stated. It’s about profit, even if Ti bikes were “faster” they still wouldn’t use them because the point is to keep the sponsors happy and they make carbon bikes… because carbon is more profitable. That’s the real reason. 🙂👍🏻
@@reginaldscot165 Of course you will be able to find some pros who have a titanium bike in their collection, just like you also will find steel bikes. The majority though does not have a titanium bike. Doesn´t mean they´re bad, but it is a niche product. But why does retired pros still use electronic shifting and disc brakes if they don´t have to? Because they find it better and more convenient.
When it comes to pro teams not using titanium bikes I find it really hard to believe that they would knowingly sacrifice better results (even one day race or GC wins) if they had chosen titanium bikes instead of carbon. Yes, sponsors are of course important, but not just as important for all teams. The UAE team could probably use frames made of diamonds if they really wanted to. And all the money Sky and Ineos has spent on marginal gains could easily cover going with titanium bikes instead of carbon if titanium frames would means saving money in the rest of the chain. I think choosing carbon probably makes everything easier, and for those teams which actually does care about a budget I would guess it´s also less expensive (though that is of course debatable - would they need as many frames/bikes during a season simply because less wear/tear/etc.?)
Carbon breaks, titanium doesn't. You can resell a carbon component ten times after it breaks. Titanium can literally handle going to space and back. I have a steel fixed gear/single speed. Incredibly satisfied.
The doping-tech comment is a good one. I'm a competitive powerlifter, but I have no hope of going to the top, because I refuse to dope. Testing is incredibly easy to dodge these days, especially if you know when the testing is taking place, you can get off your lower dose of gear a month away from comp and you're often fine.
That’s so true, nobody at the top is clean. Anyone who thinks that is living in La la land. I know 2 professional athletes, both started doping when they reached the top of their game.🤷🏻♂️
Maybe because they snap/shear? Now I am going to watch this and see why...
Great 👍🏻
Malaysia peninsular or East?
Borneo 🙂
If somebody wants to take your money to fix a problem, do your own research into the problem and the fix (diet, meds, tech, etc)
Smart advice. 👍🏻
Same thing for Shimano...
Yes, good point.
Putting love into a frame is imparting something of God's Image. We expand out the Garden of Eden as an extension of the Master's Hands.
What a beautiful comment. 🙏🏻❤️
I cant afford a titanium bike , but i got me an aluminium one ! frame , wheels , all of it !!! ... eve got it an aluminium aero handle bar ! which is just beautiful by the way !!!
... fuck carbon crap !!!!!!!!! 😁
Nice 😎👌🏻
Let's make one thing clear--people do indeed know a titanium bike when they see one. Carbon fiber may dominate the market but anyone spending a few thousand on a lightweight bike knows what titanium is--at least in my region (Seattle/Puget Sound). People who ride one definitely get asked about them. However, tough as they are and lovely as they are to ride, they are thief magnets. So, I've settled for good old steel. So too have many others in my social milieu. No regrets.
Steel is always an excellent choice no doubt about it. 🙂
I disagree, carbon is best for making all the fancy shaped tubes and making "butted" tubes, I e., where it is thin to save weight when strength is not as needed and strong where needed without being heavy. But for the non pro, Titanium bike are best quality for durability and keeping weight low and strength in the right places.
I feel you are close to the truth, you just need to think about it a bit longer. The real answer is in what you said. 😉
It is hard to shape titanium and keep its strength, so the only thing you can do is butt it to make it strong at the welds. You can do some shaping, but then you have to treat it again. Chinese welders are probably as good as in the west. But Chinese labour doesn't seem that cheap anymore. But given the cost of high end carbon and the heaviness of low end carbon frames. Titanium is what non pro enthusiasts should be looking at.
Are you saying that the UCI has banned Titanium bikes?
No, that’s not what I’m saying.
Please rewatch the video. 🙂👍🏻
@@reginaldscot165 I get the gist. I am trying to understand what designs or equipment the UCi are banning and if these are as mooted that it is a bit of a protection racket or are they trying to specify parameters so innovation is contained within the parameters. In the case of your WW2 and German engineering the Germans could manufacture ME 109 quicker because they could stamp out precise forgings for the airframe because they had at the time gigantic forges which were eventually the spoils of war for the yanks and the russians or first come. I notice that Brompton can't scale up production for their T Line all Ti bike because there is not much room for economies of scale unless they train up more welders.