I just tested a Sony A7R IV using your "Usable 'Real World' Dynamic Range" methodology but with a slight twist: i processed the images in Adobe Lightroom Classic 9.2 (ACR 12.2) and Capture One Pro 20.0.3. Capture One was set to Exposure Warning is set for 246 and Shadow Warning was set for 5. The measured Usable 'Real World' Dynamic Range" of the A7R IV in Lightroom Classic is 9.66 stops and in Capture One, 7 stops. These results match those of the Nikon Z7.
Andy Astbury, the voice of reason in the hype-ridden, spec-enthralled, world of mistaking the siren songs of marketing departments, and technology fetishism with the needs of real-world photography. Good stuff, as always!
Always insightful Andy. If I had a scene that I felt challenged my sensors dynamic range I simply choose to bracket and later create a HDR in post. Of course that's not much use other than for stationary subjects I realise but it's an option. Likewise I calibrate my sekonic lightmeter for each of my cameras to maximise dynamic range and as you correctly express here, real life usable dynamic range is very different from published specs. As you also point out diffraction becomes a real issue with these tiny pixel sites thus why Micro Four thirds shooters should rarely go beyond f11 for example ( although f8 is generally as far as I go personally ). My relatively aging Nikon D750 is still amazing in terms of RAW file recovery, 24MP is plenty enough for me on Full Frame although I see myself adding a D850 at some point in the future 😊
D750 - a camera I very mistakenly omitted to purchase, and still as epic today as it ever was. I think the D850 has a lot to offer, but if only Nikon had left it at 36Mp THEN we would have the full benefit of the BSI sensor over the faithful D800E/D810 - but they just had to cave in to the 'more megs' fanboys. As ever, cheers for the feedback - long live Sekonic!
@@AndyAstbury Given the very low prices of D750's these days it's worth a punt. It got a lot of flack due to the multiple recalls sadly but I'd suggest the only FF camera out there currently beating out the D750's dynamic range is likely Sony's current A7 III and its not by much. Very hard to clip highlights and seemingly bottomless shadow recovery the D750 is hard to beat in my opinion 😉
I always had time for the A7R RAW files, despite the compression as the shadows were very nice to extract when need be (just like the D800). Would we not need 16-bit RAW files in order to reach, a realistic, 15 stops of DR? That is a shed load of information that need to be stored. Great video matey, pull no punches.
Cheers matey. I'll hopefully be doing a DR test on a PhaseOneIQ260 sometime so we'll see how that turns out, but 15 stops of usable DR would equate to a contrast ratio between highlights and shadows of 32,768:1. I can squeeze 10 stops from an uncompressed 14bit raw from 35mm FX, so I doubt it'll be achievable on that format for a while yet unless they go backwards in the meg count - bigger photosites = better SNR hence better DR all other things being equal. But medium format is a different proposition altogether and I reckon 15/16 stops of real DR will happen there first.
I've shot Sony since the first A7R was released 6 years ago and currently use the A7RIII. These cameras are about much more than DR. As a landscape/seascape shooter predominantly, I bracket almost every capture. Never would I rely on the sensor's DR to recover highlights or shadows beyond a stop or two but it's nice to know that I can recovery extreme shadow detail if I ever need to. I typically shoot at ISO 50 btw and my images are virtually noise free, even in the shadows. Interested by your comments about Nikon not quoting DR. Seems you're right although the Nikon US website quotes "remarkable advancements across the board including dynamic range". Not surpising given most of their cameras now use a Sony sensor. What were your findings for the Canon 5DMKIV btw? I thought you mentioned you did a comparison with a friend's a7RIII.
Hi Steve, the Canon 5DMk4 maximum 9 stops with +4.2Ev in the highlights (254) so it's about 0.7Ev narrower than the A7R3. I have to say though that I have a lot of time for the 5DMk4 - it's a cracker of a camera and is a lot more capable than a lot of people imagine. Yes, you have to bracket, or pile in the ND grads to stand a chance when the scene is 512:1/1024:1 or greater yet Sony are trying to get people to believe the A7R4 will cope with 32,768:1 using sub 4 micron photosites - do they really think EVERYONE on the planet is that stupid?
Interesting Andy. There’s always a lot of hype around this stuff on the internet, all we really want is to know how a camera performs in our genre. I have used most of the major brands over the years, all do well generally but Canon is the one I prefer. Bullet proof and the image quality from the 5dsr for birds is fabulous. Plenty of dynamic range in the real wet and windy world 🌎
I have personally notice this, I switched from D810 to riii and noticed that the recovery from the riii was noisy as hell! But the Nikon looked just fine. I have also noticed that my Nikon I can push things harder and not get noise with the Riii I half to be very careful.. the 60mp is just not needed I would be happy with 24-30mp and fix the Dynamic range where it can be actual useable range.
Agree with you 100% - 61Mp is crazy on a 35mm format FX sensor. But camera manufacturers are there to satisfy their shareholders, and the best way for them to do that is to cater to the prevailing market forces = more megapixels!!
The D810 sensor is a Sony!!! Probably the exact same sensor used in the a7R. And as an owner of both an a7R and 7RIII, can't say I agree with your findings.
I just tested a Sony A7R IV using your "Usable 'Real World' Dynamic Range" methodology but with a slight twist: i processed the images in Adobe Lightroom Classic 9.2 (ACR 12.2) and Capture One Pro 20.0.3.
Capture One was set to Exposure Warning is set for 246 and Shadow Warning was set for 5.
The measured Usable 'Real World' Dynamic Range" of the A7R IV in Lightroom Classic is 9.66 stops and in Capture One, 7 stops.
These results match those of the Nikon Z7.
Interesting point of view, thanks
What's that DataTransfer Software you're using to display the curves? Is that a commercially availble software?
It's the software that comes with Sekonic meters.
@@AndyAstbury Thanks!
Interesting as always Andy 👍 I'm pretty sure (99.9%) the scene is of Bedruthen Steps... if you wanted to know 😉
That's the place, I couldn't for the life of me remember where Phil said it was 👍
Andy Astbury, the voice of reason in the hype-ridden, spec-enthralled, world of mistaking the siren songs of marketing departments, and technology fetishism with the needs of real-world photography. Good stuff, as always!
Cheers Mika 👌
Always insightful Andy. If I had a scene that I felt challenged my sensors dynamic range I simply choose to bracket and later create a HDR in post. Of course that's not much use other than for stationary subjects I realise but it's an option. Likewise I calibrate my sekonic lightmeter for each of my cameras to maximise dynamic range and as you correctly express here, real life usable dynamic range is very different from published specs. As you also point out diffraction becomes a real issue with these tiny pixel sites thus why Micro Four thirds shooters should rarely go beyond f11 for example ( although f8 is generally as far as I go personally ). My relatively aging Nikon D750 is still amazing in terms of RAW file recovery, 24MP is plenty enough for me on Full Frame although I see myself adding a D850 at some point in the future 😊
D750 - a camera I very mistakenly omitted to purchase, and still as epic today as it ever was. I think the D850 has a lot to offer, but if only Nikon had left it at 36Mp THEN we would have the full benefit of the BSI sensor over the faithful D800E/D810 - but they just had to cave in to the 'more megs' fanboys.
As ever, cheers for the feedback - long live Sekonic!
@@AndyAstbury Given the very low prices of D750's these days it's worth a punt. It got a lot of flack due to the multiple recalls sadly but I'd suggest the only FF camera out there currently beating out the D750's dynamic range is likely Sony's current A7 III and its not by much. Very hard to clip highlights and seemingly bottomless shadow recovery the D750 is hard to beat in my opinion 😉
I always had time for the A7R RAW files, despite the compression as the shadows were very nice to extract when need be (just like the D800). Would we not need 16-bit RAW files in order to reach, a realistic, 15 stops of DR? That is a shed load of information that need to be stored.
Great video matey, pull no punches.
Cheers matey. I'll hopefully be doing a DR test on a PhaseOneIQ260 sometime so we'll see how that turns out, but 15 stops of usable DR would equate to a contrast ratio between highlights and shadows of 32,768:1. I can squeeze 10 stops from an uncompressed 14bit raw from 35mm FX, so I doubt it'll be achievable on that format for a while yet unless they go backwards in the meg count - bigger photosites = better SNR hence better DR all other things being equal.
But medium format is a different proposition altogether and I reckon 15/16 stops of real DR will happen there first.
Plus, don't forget about AR technology....
I've shot Sony since the first A7R was released 6 years ago and currently use the A7RIII. These cameras are about much more than DR. As a landscape/seascape shooter predominantly, I bracket almost every capture. Never would I rely on the sensor's DR to recover highlights or shadows beyond a stop or two but it's nice to know that I can recovery extreme shadow detail if I ever need to. I typically shoot at ISO 50 btw and my images are virtually noise free, even in the shadows.
Interested by your comments about Nikon not quoting DR. Seems you're right although the Nikon US website quotes "remarkable advancements across the board including dynamic range". Not surpising given most of their cameras now use a Sony sensor.
What were your findings for the Canon 5DMKIV btw? I thought you mentioned you did a comparison with a friend's a7RIII.
Hi Steve, the Canon 5DMk4 maximum 9 stops with +4.2Ev in the highlights (254) so it's about 0.7Ev narrower than the A7R3.
I have to say though that I have a lot of time for the 5DMk4 - it's a cracker of a camera and is a lot more capable than a lot of people imagine.
Yes, you have to bracket, or pile in the ND grads to stand a chance when the scene is 512:1/1024:1 or greater yet Sony are trying to get people to believe the A7R4 will cope with 32,768:1 using sub 4 micron photosites - do they really think EVERYONE on the planet is that stupid?
@@AndyAstbury Nuff said. I never believe the marketing hype from any camera manufacturer.
Interesting Andy. There’s always a lot of hype around this stuff on the internet, all we really want is to know how a camera performs in our genre. I have used most of the major brands over the years, all do well generally but Canon is the one I prefer. Bullet proof and the image quality from the 5dsr for birds is fabulous. Plenty of dynamic range in the real wet and windy world 🌎
I have personally notice this, I switched from D810 to riii and noticed that the recovery from the riii was noisy as hell! But the Nikon looked just fine. I have also noticed that my Nikon I can push things harder and not get noise with the Riii I half to be very careful.. the 60mp is just not needed I would be happy with 24-30mp and fix the Dynamic range where it can be actual useable range.
Agree with you 100% - 61Mp is crazy on a 35mm format FX sensor.
But camera manufacturers are there to satisfy their shareholders, and the best way for them to do that is to cater to the prevailing market forces = more megapixels!!
The D810 sensor is a Sony!!! Probably the exact same sensor used in the a7R. And as an owner of both an a7R and 7RIII, can't say I agree with your findings.
I can feel the flames of indignation coming form the Sony fan boys now !!!
Am expecting the backdraft anytime soon!