Yup! Would be interesting to see an addendum where the narrow bar gains are further compared to those obtained for a typical, tucked position on the aero bars.
In my experience, many people who have the opinion that narrow handlebars are dangerous have never tried them. Like he says, they feel different but they’re certainly not dangerous. I have 32s on my aero bike and 36s in my everyday bike and I’m never going back.
IDK about that…we have quite a few Zwifters that really don’t need to be riding bars that edge close to that of a TT bike. I’m sure they’re fine if your bike handling is up to snuff
@@frankfesta8737 there are one or two people on my club who could crash a static trainer but generally speaking, I think most people would get used to 38s or 36s pretty quickly.
In the 1990s we were chopping mtb bars really short 😂 Seriously tho, I've just put so 36cm on my road bike, could have gone narrower by some, elbows still tucking in , did some big climbs in the race last weekend, no problem apart from being an old fart.
The Zipp reference bar appears to have round tube section on the tops, so I think the gains to be had by switching to the narrower bars are likely inflated a bit over what you'd find comparing varying widths of aero bars.
The aerodynamics of the round bar acting as a bluff body in front of the rider are very small. The results are going to be affect by position changes for 95% of it. They have reduced the frontal area by somewhere in the region of 10% by moving the arms and hands closer together. That is huge when considering changes in system drag as is being considered here.
@@matt-10229 Of course most of the gains are from rider position and frontal area reduction but the data would have been more precise if they had tested against a wider aero handlebar. Also, it better reflects the gains of a rider opting for narrow bars given this rider would most likely already have aero handlebars in the first place. For me, the dilemma is choosing between 30cm wide round bars and keeping my 36-40cm aero flared handlebars
at high speeds round to flat can make 10 Watts i think it was 50 kph. So a bougas selling test. So a selling test for flat bars all include. I bet the company paye for the windtunnel.
I figured out that I was the fastest in the long run, when I used the handle bars, which suited me the best /my shoulder width (42cm) the best. Because I did not feel pain with those and wanted to continue my journey. Atleast that is what I felt, due to that I sold my tinier handle bars.
Now, please hit the road and share with us how these bars feel - especially on climbs, descents and going around corners. Simply compare them to “regular” width handlebars.
Since Paero=0.5*rho*CdA*V^3 you can plot the expected ∆Paero analytical curves together with what you measured. Unfortunately many measurements are way off -- probably your position which wasn't the same at different speeds. This would be easier to see (and diagnose) if you reported CdA instead of watts. So lots of noise, but the signal shows that narrow still clearly better.
I think so many riders who never use the drops descending with such a narrow handlebar is asking for disaster. Maybe faster but I really think they could be super dangerous. Also climbing somebody who gets out the saddle to power out of a climb, how much would you lose power wise ? Be like standing up on the tops.
I think control in descents should be OK, as you just lean the bike, you don't really turn the bars. However, I climb out of the saddle quite a bit and here I wonder if power would be lost, because you use the leverage of the bars to counteract the force from the leg, and here, wider is better, up to a point.
Yes, manufacturing tooling for carbon fiber parts is very expensive, but that’s only if you’re planning to do serial production. One off and low volume carbon part production is actually quite inexpensive, and can be done in your garage if you’re willing to put in the time and effort.
I am a bit lost: only one table from the video compares narrow bar with super narrow bar. But the final table mentioned just narrow bars and it is not clear - is it narrow or super narrow and of it is just one of the - were is a comparison with another one?
Hey, thanks a lot for doing this. I’m wondering if you could post the differences between the aggressive, aggressive drops and super aggressive drops position? Which was fastest?
Come on then Cycling Weekly & WX-R, when/where can we get hold of these handlebars (can't find any mention of them on social media or their website), please?
Cambié este año de 42~44 a 38 y ya no vuelvo atrás. He ganado en comodidad y aerodinámica y no noto perjuicio en subidas de pié. También hay que decir que he bajado de peso 20 kilogramos y éso también beneficia en bicicleta 😂
I make my stem longer put my hands on the tops either side of the steerer, like doggy paws or Garminaci, so in a way my bars are only 20cm approximately. I can't find a wind tunnel test of hands on tops.
If I would be a skinny young guy and use such a super narrow handlebar for crit racing ... on a bike which is optimized for this use , it would be perfect for me. For my personal use it would be too extreme to be usable.
There's a huge difference in tarmac, track, wind tunnel riding,wind tunnel no tyre micro bouncing track medium bouncing tarmac more tyre bouncing, consider testing all of the three?
This year switched to a new way of riding the bike keeping the normal handle bars. I took the approach of cupping one hand over the other while the bottom palm hand cups over the top of the steerer cap, this gives me a more aero position without compromising the back position. Both arms come in at middle point over the top of the steerer cap top. This also puts less stress on the middle and ends of the carbon handle bars. During an emergency this is also faster to reach the handle bars and the brakes as your body is not forward on top go the aero tt bars your head literally stays over the top steerer cap.
@55kph that really is ‘staggering’ 🤣. I mean Staggeringly irrelevant!. It would make more sense to use CDA rather than an inflated metric proportional to the square of speed. You can bump up the speed to get a staggeringly high difference in watts. How many watts do you need to ride at 55 kph?: More than the world record for a 10 mile TT on a road bike (51.6kph) 🤣.
The comparison of 30cm vs 37cm doesn't matter, because 30cm won't handle well in road racing, it's too narrow and would be unbearably comfortable for most, as well as not stable.
Crashes are due to behavior, not small differences in bike design. Afterall, you barely turn your handlebars to begin with and you get used to anything.
@@mitchellsteindler They don't allow time trial bars in the Peloton of a bike race for a reason. People are darn near using the narrow bars and bent in brake levers to get into a time trial position. Seriously doubt that type of position doesn't sacrifice some bike control.
Try climbing out of the saddle up a very steep gradient using these silly bars plus not suitable for anyone over 5'10" as they restrict your breathing-but hey its the trend so these will be up there with knee length socks , oversized sunglasses , darth vader aero helmets as the latest must have accessory for the middle class hipsters & posers that the cycle industry now caters for
I am strongly opposed to such "tech" which shapes more and more what the rider should be like to win. It is the same nonsense with engineers narrowing Q-factors and eliminating 60% of the riders from racing who can't possibly ride with such Q-factors without ligament damage. Narrow bars can work fine for narrow chests, wider chests will stress their rib cage on a long ride, limit their breathing volume, and be in chest pain for 2 days following a race. So would those figures hold up for a wider chested rider? I don't think so, it might not make any difference if not make negative difference as their arms can't possibly go parallel to the stream. So we are going to see really narrow riders with knee/angle shapes that can ride 90mm Q with 34mm bars. I wish the sport took advice 80% from orthopedics and ergonomics experts than from engineers whose idea of the perfect machine is a designed machine to ride it other than human. Watts watts watts, show me a study that shows watt output drop due to discomfort over 2 - 4 - 8 hrs of riding in the perfect bike, and the same for the same rider with a comfortable machine. Races are won at the end, outside the velodrome. In the velodrome for 4 rounds you can be strapped like a salami and take no breath and still have high output.
In the old days if 103mm shaft was too narrow you went to 108 112 and if 48mm bars were too wide you went to 44,mm and you could ride for weeks. Now, if your knees and ankles don't match SRAM specs you better look for another sport.
I find narrow bars very uncomfortable, and I'm just 181cm with probably medium-width shoulders. When I was young, I couldn't wait to get enough cash to buy some fancy 42cm bars and ditch my old, 39cm and 40cm Cinellis. My old bars felt narrower when I got my first pairs of 9-speed Shimano levers. In fact, I've recently gone wider to 43 (at the hoods, with an odd pair of old FSA bars) and 44s
@@SecwetGwiwer ive done mtb riding and XC Racing for 30 years. With roads like we have here i’ll stick to my 42’s thanks. Also it depends how wide your shoulders are.
Best video for a long while from this channel
Yup! Would be interesting to see an addendum where the narrow bar gains are further compared to those obtained for a typical, tucked position on the aero bars.
In my experience, many people who have the opinion that narrow handlebars are dangerous have never tried them. Like he says, they feel different but they’re certainly not dangerous. I have 32s on my aero bike and 36s in my everyday bike and I’m never going back.
How tall are you?
IDK about that…we have quite a few Zwifters that really don’t need to be riding bars that edge close to that of a TT bike. I’m sure they’re fine if your bike handling is up to snuff
@@frankfesta8737 there are one or two people on my club who could crash a static trainer but generally speaking, I think most people would get used to 38s or 36s pretty quickly.
@@SecwetGwiwer LOL - club rides are a bloodsport!
@@neilgardner2583I‘m 197 cm and ride 36 on the road and 38 on gravel (Both with flare). I completely share the opinion of the original comment
In the 1990s we were chopping mtb bars really short 😂
Seriously tho, I've just put so 36cm on my road bike, could have gone narrower by some, elbows still tucking in , did some big climbs in the race last weekend, no problem apart from being an old fart.
The Zipp reference bar appears to have round tube section on the tops, so I think the gains to be had by switching to the narrower bars are likely inflated a bit over what you'd find comparing varying widths of aero bars.
The aerodynamics of the round bar acting as a bluff body in front of the rider are very small. The results are going to be affect by position changes for 95% of it. They have reduced the frontal area by somewhere in the region of 10% by moving the arms and hands closer together. That is huge when considering changes in system drag as is being considered here.
@@matt-10229 Of course most of the gains are from rider position and frontal area reduction but the data would have been more precise if they had tested against a wider aero handlebar.
Also, it better reflects the gains of a rider opting for narrow bars given this rider would most likely already have aero handlebars in the first place.
For me, the dilemma is choosing between 30cm wide round bars and keeping my 36-40cm aero flared handlebars
at high speeds round to flat can make 10 Watts i think it was 50 kph. So a bougas selling test. So a selling test for flat bars all include. I bet the company paye for the windtunnel.
I figured out that I was the fastest in the long run, when I used the handle bars, which suited me the best /my shoulder width (42cm) the best. Because I did not feel pain with those and wanted to continue my journey. Atleast that is what I felt, due to that I sold my tinier handle bars.
Yeah I agree I'm broad shouldered too 42cm shoulder width,I am not racing in the peleton and will always prefer to go comfort.
Very well presented. Enjoyed that
Now, please hit the road and share with us how these bars feel - especially on climbs, descents and going around corners. Simply compare them to “regular” width handlebars.
Since Paero=0.5*rho*CdA*V^3 you can plot the expected ∆Paero analytical curves together with what you measured. Unfortunately many measurements are way off -- probably your position which wasn't the same at different speeds. This would be easier to see (and diagnose) if you reported CdA instead of watts. So lots of noise, but the signal shows that narrow still clearly better.
Dude its an ad, they will not put effort into this
I think so many riders who never use the drops descending with such a narrow handlebar is asking for disaster. Maybe faster but I really think they could be super dangerous.
Also climbing somebody who gets out the saddle to power out of a climb, how much would you lose power wise ? Be like standing up on the tops.
I think control in descents should be OK, as you just lean the bike, you don't really turn the bars. However, I climb out of the saddle quite a bit and here I wonder if power would be lost, because you use the leverage of the bars to counteract the force from the leg, and here, wider is better, up to a point.
You get used to it.
@@resheflaor4817 Getting used to it, doesn't necessarily mean it's good / right / best.....
Yes, manufacturing tooling for carbon fiber parts is very expensive, but that’s only if you’re planning to do serial production. One off and low volume carbon part production is actually quite inexpensive, and can be done in your garage if you’re willing to put in the time and effort.
I am a bit lost: only one table from the video compares narrow bar with super narrow bar. But the final table mentioned just narrow bars and it is not clear - is it narrow or super narrow and of it is just one of the - were is a comparison with another one?
That WXR track bike looks incredible.
Hey, thanks a lot for doing this. I’m wondering if you could post the differences between the aggressive, aggressive drops and super aggressive drops position? Which was fastest?
Come on then Cycling Weekly & WX-R, when/where can we get hold of these handlebars (can't find any mention of them on social media or their website), please?
Cambié este año de 42~44 a 38 y ya no vuelvo atrás. He ganado en comodidad y aerodinámica y no noto perjuicio en subidas de pié. También hay que decir que he bajado de peso 20 kilogramos y éso también beneficia en bicicleta 😂
I used 36cm for two yrs now. Yeah I can definitely feel watts saving but don’t go for a narrower one as it might not be easy to control on road.
I make my stem longer put my hands on the tops either side of the steerer, like doggy paws or Garminaci, so in a way my bars are only 20cm approximately. I can't find a wind tunnel test of hands on tops.
And I'm using a 36cm zipp sl 80, and those gains are out there. I'm not going to do it though. I'm not that radical because my shoulder size is 38.
I would not want to use them in a Criterium. What about bars with a deeper drop??
where could i find this handlebars? not on the wx-rwebsite
Great video guys, impressive and interesting results. Thanks for sharing them
Do a comparison of 54cm vs 44cm bars.
My 2023 Giant Propel comes with 42 cm wide handlebars… Who needs that? Why waste aero gains like that?
Before claiming them comfy and usable go try them at alpine descents. Sitiing still with a static bike might be a bit misleading
Excellent point, well made.
He did say he used them at a crit and found them fine. It’s still not an alpine decent but 🤷♂️
If I would be a skinny young guy and use such a super narrow handlebar for crit racing ... on a bike which is optimized for this use , it would be perfect for me.
For my personal use it would be too extreme to be usable.
Test flawed with -10 stem on the narrow? Looks like a pro vibe vs fsa 6 degree on the ordinary handlebar.
Good catch!! I completely missed that!
The stem shouldn’t matter if they copy the position
There's a huge difference in tarmac, track, wind tunnel riding,wind tunnel no tyre micro bouncing track medium bouncing tarmac more tyre bouncing, consider testing all of the three?
I don't mind narrow bars until it's time to climb. It actually takes more energy climbing with narrow bars
This year switched to a new way of riding the bike keeping the normal handle bars. I took the approach of cupping one hand over the other while the bottom palm hand cups over the top of the steerer cap, this gives me a more aero position without compromising the back position. Both arms come in at middle point over the top of the steerer cap top. This also puts less stress on the middle and ends of the carbon handle bars. During an emergency this is also faster to reach the handle bars and the brakes as your body is not forward on top go the aero tt bars your head literally stays over the top steerer cap.
I know narrow bars save watts, but these numbers just don't make any sense if you think about them for a second.
What about climbing with them ,
I find narrow handlebars knock my timing to hell on a climb ?
Interesting. My question was about power out of the saddle. I feel like I have less leverage with narrow bars out of the saddle.
Try those in the peloton, climbing out of the saddle, and the long descents. That could make you question life.
how about not using a round base rather ein aero base 40cm bar.
I’m wondering how stable these handlebars feel in a sprint 🤔
10:05 right knee collapse in on pedal stroke. May be as simple as a cleat adjustment?
Thank you for the video but the numbers vary so much with speed that is not making any sense.
at that point might as well go with tt bar.
Facts
Guys, it's not "WX-R" , it is pronounced Worx.
Props for promoting this vastly underated brand though !
@55kph that really is ‘staggering’ 🤣. I mean Staggeringly irrelevant!. It would make more sense to use CDA rather than an inflated metric proportional to the square of speed. You can bump up the speed to get a staggeringly high difference in watts. How many watts do you need to ride at 55 kph?: More than the world record for a 10 mile TT on a road bike (51.6kph) 🤣.
Strongly disagree. It's common to hit 55 kph while closing a gap in a race, going downhill or hitting a Strava segment for short periods of time.
The bars look exactly like the ones from Lambda Racing
The comparison of 30cm vs 37cm doesn't matter, because 30cm won't handle well in road racing, it's too narrow and would be unbearably comfortable for most,
as well as not stable.
So ride on the tops upright instead of hoods
36 is the narrowest they should go. 38 is the new 40 in my opinion.
Posição das garrafinhas de água, interferem na ciclística da bike.
Algumas pessoas colocam a garrafinha de água nas costas para não prejudicar à ciclística.
PÊLOS E CABELOS INTERFEREM NA VELOCIDADE.
i can sit in super aggresive position for 10-15 minutes : )
Intermarché-wanty is belgian!!!!
Save time and energy by riding a time trial bike
SAPATILHAS "AERODINÂMICAS" AJUDAM GANHAR VELOCIDADE.
☠️
The only time I am really going over 40k/h is when going downhill. Not sure I want to go 75 on anything narrower than 42…
Looks weird
Its an ad
These likely are adding to the prevalence of the bad crashes we are seeing now.
Crashes are due to behavior, not small differences in bike design. Afterall, you barely turn your handlebars to begin with and you get used to anything.
@@mitchellsteindler They don't allow time trial bars in the Peloton of a bike race for a reason. People are darn near using the narrow bars and bent in brake levers to get into a time trial position. Seriously doubt that type of position doesn't sacrifice some bike control.
I’ve been watching F1 for too long - I heard $20k to manufacture handlebars and laughed at how cheap that sounded 😅
Just get aerobars 🙄
Great for Track racing, but shouldn't be used on the road; too narrow doesn't help with control.
Try climbing out of the saddle up a very steep gradient using these silly bars plus not suitable for anyone over 5'10" as they restrict your breathing-but hey its the trend so these will be up there with knee length socks , oversized sunglasses , darth vader aero helmets as the latest must have accessory for the middle class hipsters & posers that the cycle industry now caters for
I am strongly opposed to such "tech" which shapes more and more what the rider should be like to win. It is the same nonsense with engineers narrowing Q-factors and eliminating 60% of the riders from racing who can't possibly ride with such Q-factors without ligament damage.
Narrow bars can work fine for narrow chests, wider chests will stress their rib cage on a long ride, limit their breathing volume, and be in chest pain for 2 days following a race. So would those figures hold up for a wider chested rider? I don't think so, it might not make any difference if not make negative difference as their arms can't possibly go parallel to the stream.
So we are going to see really narrow riders with knee/angle shapes that can ride 90mm Q with 34mm bars.
I wish the sport took advice 80% from orthopedics and ergonomics experts than from engineers whose idea of the perfect machine is a designed machine to ride it other than human.
Watts watts watts, show me a study that shows watt output drop due to discomfort over 2 - 4 - 8 hrs of riding in the perfect bike, and the same for the same rider with a comfortable machine. Races are won at the end, outside the velodrome. In the velodrome for 4 rounds you can be strapped like a salami and take no breath and still have high output.
In the old days if 103mm shaft was too narrow you went to 108 112 and if 48mm bars were too wide you went to 44,mm and you could ride for weeks. Now, if your knees and ankles don't match SRAM specs you better look for another sport.
I find narrow bars very uncomfortable, and I'm just 181cm with probably medium-width shoulders. When I was young, I couldn't wait to get enough cash to buy some fancy 42cm bars and ditch my old, 39cm and 40cm Cinellis. My old bars felt narrower when I got my first pairs of 9-speed Shimano levers.
In fact, I've recently gone wider to 43 (at the hoods, with an odd pair of old FSA bars) and 44s
Super narrow,no control.
Have you tried them? My aero bike has 32s and they’re great, no problems.
@@SecwetGwiwer not on our roads, you will crash.
@@carltonholmes8061I’ve been riding them for a couple of years, no crashes.
Exactly!!
@@SecwetGwiwer ive done mtb riding and XC Racing for 30 years. With roads like we have here i’ll stick to my 42’s thanks.
Also it depends how wide your shoulders are.