Why Steam Powered carriages were unpopular - Steam Railmotors
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 พ.ย. 2023
- In today's video, we take a look at steam railmotors and why most railways didn't really like using them
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Is it an engine? Is it a carriage? Both?
Witchcraft, burn it
Definitely Witchcraft
It's a carriangine
Wait, is it lighter than a duck?
burn the witch coach
@@Lucius_ChiaraviglioIt does seem to be made out of wood...
At least ONE Railmotor is in preservation to my knowledge, you can find it at the Didcot Railway Centre.
I thought that one was a replica?
@yeoldeseawitch Steam Motor and Bogie are but the body was a steam carrige
They are restoring a gnosr steam rail motor at ferryhill turntable
3:04 it might be this one
@@yeoldeseawitch I think it was originally a railmotor but converted to an autocoach, and only converted back fairly recently. So not a complete replica, but I expect it has a fair few newly made components.
In the U.S. as early as the 1910s and 20s Gasoline powered "Doodlebugs" became the norm and later Rail Diesel Cars or RDC. Definitely a bit more practical than steam powered coaches or carriages whichever terminology you prefer. Though I'd be lying if I said I didn't want to ride in at least one of these things just to see what it's like to ride in one.
We still use them in Denmark, in several places. They are called pigs here. ;o)
And then there were the dummies, which were transitional vehicles between horse cars and trolley cars.
From what I heard they had the wonderful habit of spontaneously combusting, or choking the driver with the exhaust
@@miguelballesteros8692 I think some of those problems are a bit over exaggerated a bit but we're problems. The PRR Doodlebug incident really gave gas powered ones a bad name. Up until then they had been pretty safe they didn't just burst into flames. The exhaust fume one might've been more problematic though. That does go back to the PRR incident as well but he wasnt the first to have problems with it. Either way a lot of them got repowered to be Diesel after that and served well into the late 50s/early 60s.
@@noahwail2444 That's pretty cool, over here they got their name since they doodled around on branch lines. Or at least that's what I've been told for years but that's how they got their name apparently.
BR inherited 2 Rail motors and a Sentinel Railcar upon Nationalisation in 1948.
The Sentinel Railcar (No 2136 Hope) was withdrawn in February 1948, the LYR Raimotor (No 10617) went in March 1948 and the LNWR Railmotor ws withdrawn in November 1948 (Even though it hadn't worked since February 1947 due to collision damage).
One of my favorite video games growing up was The Legend of Zelda Spirit Tracks, and one of the locomotives I distinctly remember from it was in fact a Steam Railmotor. I always thought it was just a made up cartoony train with no basis until now. This was a really cool video! Thanks for sharing man!
There is a Steam Motor Coach, SMC1, or more effectively known as the Coffee Pot, still operating in Australia. It is owned and operated by Pichi Richi Railway Preservation Society at Quorn in the Flinders Ranges South Australia. The engine unit was built by Kitson and Co and the carriage unit by the Birmingham Carriage and Wagon Co in 1905. There was also a SMC2 that operated in the SE of South Australia, although it differed slightly in that there was a drivers cab at the rear of the carriage unit. Both SMC1 and SMC2 arrived in Australia in 1906.
I have the privilige to fire and drive the Coffee Pot at times as rostered.
Also at Pichi Richi Railway, we also have a Brill Model 75 Railcar. These were sent to Australia in kit form and assembled at Islington. The one we have 106, was assembled in 1929, so It's getting close to a century of running. As built, the Brills were fitted with a Winton petrol engine, and five speed constant mesh gearbox (I believe the gearbox is by Spicer). Later the South Australian Railways replaced the Winton petrol engine with an English supercharged Cummins L6 engine. This is the variant that I drive at Pichi Richi Railway.
The South Australian Railways also ran these on Broad Gauge, some were converted to Cummins diesel engines, then subsequently converted to more powerful Gardiner L8 engines with pneumatically operated gearboxes so that they could operate in the Adelaide Hills as multiple units.
Ringhoffer Smíchov in Prague built a steam railcar in 1903. It was used on a couple branchlines until 1947, when it was withdrawn and put on display at the National Technical Museum. In 2006 it was restored and put into operation at the National Rail Museum in Lužná, although I believe at present it is out of service because of a problem with the boiler. Hopefully next year (2024) she'll be up and running again.
Such heritage odities need to be preserved in running condition.
The first 2 decades of the 20th century was a revolution in technology, socilogy geopolitics and communication.
Steam railcars are a fantastic example of an excellent idea that came just a little bit too early.
Finally someone is talking about My favorite type of Locomotive!
There were steam railcars that didn't require 3 crew members as they had automatic firing, like the FZm 1/2 of the Sursee Triengen Bahn in Switzerland. There were some more than run quite succesfully, but they were only ever a niche
We had/have a Kitson Steam train in NZ it is safely tucked away in a museum, would be good on a cold winters day, toasty warm. 👍👍 In fact at one time, it was brought out and for a while.
“I guess you guys aren’t ready for that just yet. But your kids are gonna love it.”
We actually had some identical steam railmotors to the one shown at 1:33 ordered for the opening of my local line. They were also fitted with an open air deck on the top for extra capacity for picnic goers, since my local line runs mainly through the woods. This was on purpose as the initial entrepreneur behind the line saw more money in logging than in other traffic and so deliberately made the line go deeply in the middle of the forest, several kilometers from some villages. The line originally only ran 3 passenger trains a day, all with the railcars, which themselves also often pulled light logging trains. But of course they had the same issues you described. The railmotors were converted into passenger cars and had their second deck enclosed but didnt last super long. One of its specially built trailing cars does survive into preservation though after having been turned into a holiday hut.
Plus over here in Denmark, in the early 1920's a Danish automotive group making buses called "Triangel" began manufacturing light weight gasoline railcars, which quickly became popular and were built in vast quantities from 1923 until 1939, in use on everything from rural branch lines, to busy urban commuter routes. Several units, mostly from the late 20's and early 30's still survive into preservation too, and many ran in passenger service as late as the mid 1970's, and as departmental stock into the 80's. One on my local line was converted into a maintenance trolley and remained in service all the way until 2005, being barely recognisable from its original self at the end.
Steam: I am an engineering titan and require a lot of space to perform efficiently.
Diesel: I am revolutionary. I can produce more power in a compact space and can allow more capacity for passengers.
Electric: I am a versatile form of energy that can power a train in different ways. Sometimes I am limited by my tracks but recently I can use a battery to stray away onto wireless routes.
Gas: i used to be a car. Sometimes i still am.
Though steam does work better on a large scale than diesel does. When you are really large engines like on ships or power stations they still use steam engines today. When it came to the largest engines steam power remained the more efficient engine type and the main reason they were phased out was because their lack on compatibility with the infrastructure meant for smaller diesel engines.
In Tasmania, the Tasmanian Government Railways used SENTINEL cars almost identical to the one at the start of the video. 😊They had similar running problems and all 9 had the boilers removed, making them a good-sized luggage, parcel, and guards compartment.
Basically, the early phases of Multiple-Units. Multiple-Units are basically carriages that moves on its own without the need of a locomotive.
The GWR found that they could not adequately haul a trailer when traffic demanded extra capacity. A small tank engine had the fleibility to deal with such changes of capacity, hauling several coaches.
Unpopular?! The school boys who lived around my local branch loved the railmotors! Because they could have a cheeky word with the drivers and sneak a cab ride so much easier than on the conventional locos because of the railmotors fully enclosed cabs
On the branch line that served the small market town where I live the LNER ran a Sentinel steam railcar. Apparently it would only steam well on a particular type of coal so it towed it's own coal wagon with it.
One part of the evolution of self propelled carriages was not mentioned in this video.
Petrol engines and motorcar/ lorry drivetrains were used for a decade as part of that evolution.
Ford model T engines and TT drivetrains were mostly used starting at the end of WW1.
WW1 and the widly use of petrol internal combustion engines excelerated the move from steam to ICE propulsion
Petrol engines had also huge drawbacks and caused lots fires, explosions and nauseous for the passengers.
After the 1929 financial crisis the in WW1 developed military tech Diesel engines electric/hydraulic drivetrains became commercialy viable for coaches lorries shunters and converting self propelled cariages.
In the early 30's the rise to rail domination of the self propelled passenger carriage started.
Diesel-electric , Diesel-hydraulic and 3th rail-overhead electric self propelled carriages eliminated all the previous drawbacks
DMU's and EMU's are now replacing locomotive pulled passenger trains into the same niche the self propelled carriage once stood at its beginning.
Definitely an idea ahead of its time.
You should do a video on the NER petrol-electric railcar as well. And maybe one about NER's early electrification plan which I believe died after the grouping.
There is one of these still in operation in Rockhampton Qld. It gets fired up maybe once a month by volunteers at the railway museum run by the city council. They definitely talk about the rarity when you go for a ride, something like 2 left operational.
The NER autocar has been overlooked in this video..... It was a petrol powered vehicle and only needed a crew of 2.... It also gas the ability of utilising a trailing car with driving capability from either side. 4:37
No way your playing Freddy fazebears pizza simulator theme
Fazbear Entertainment went to some wild places during the turn of the 20th century. :P
I think passengers also complained that the movement of the pistons caused the carriage to sway from side to side. This didn't happen with a locomotive, because any movement was lost in the couplings.
That doesn't happen because pistons mirror one another. As one is moving back the other is moving forward and vice versa so it doesn't shake much at all. However while the carriage doesn't sway the movement of the pistons back and forth does set off a lot of lateral vibration in the carriage.
Thank-you. A nice survey!
Good conclusion, and a sound one to a lot of concepts ahead of their time! Reference the Sinclair Electric car, a vehicle who's idea was sound on paper, but needed refinement and better tech to really work.
Pichi Richi Railway, South Australia. Steam Motor Coach No. 1
The Kelani railway in Sri Lanka used a steam sentinal that looks like the one in the thumbnail up untill the mid 1990's , it is still stored in working condition but the tracks have been removed/regauged. There are a couple vids of it on youtube.
We have a Union Pacific petrol-powered motorcar at Traveltown in Los Angeles. Apparently it's unique in having all of it's original equipment. You can't go inside, though. It's not much cared for.
there was a pretty cool one in the states operated by the New Haven called the "Besler", it looked like a Zephyr trainset and had a cab on both the locomotive and the trailer car. Wasn't that successful iirc but it looked pretty badass
3:03 that is one weird shaped boiler I wonder what that was about
Very interesting concept, nice video ToT
please do a video on
the porters steam loco
the Japanese class d5,
the Chinese QJ 2,10,2
or just exsamples of asian trains
how do gear trains work
something on saddle bolier and side tanks (like the big water boxes) tank engines
double ended diesel trains
what to do if the train stalls
one talking about the different types of steam funnles and there uses,
a video on steam locomotive combination breaks (steam and vacuum brakes)
a short video on how a Armstrong turn table works
what did train flagman do
what did trains (mostly steam) do when going in tunnels, ive heard of gas masks or just useing a wet cloth, or did they bring in other engines like later on they used electric trains, or were there no bigv tunnels.
evaluation of electric trains
why are some trains wagion tops (the stream lining thing to boilers)
railway terms abd slang
one on the meaning of flag and lantern colors like green on rear engine means theres another one coming soon,
the different types of cut offs/reversers/Johnson bar
some are a big lever, some are a big valve wheel, and ive also seen some that are like rods, one exsample is train sim world 3 and im not sure where to find the other reverser
and how much water do steam trains take usually, and how much would the crew drink
absolutely great 😀😀😀
Perhaps a character from Thomas can be based on this Railmotor.
Err, trans would need a crew of at least 2 - the driver and at least 1 conductor, just like on the buses of the day.
Thank you! I had wondered about that.
There was battery powered electric versions as well.
Check out the Stadler VT650 rail car. It look super futeristic and is pretty funny seeing one pass by on a at-grade crossing.
I think it's pretty easy to understand why they were unpopular. In Europe the transition to electric and diesel happened and we use these to this day. The US abandoned these completely.
Interesting! Some steam powered carriages were built in Sweden too, but never were a success here either. In one case (the Mjölby-Hästholmen Railroad), the boiler tubes had to be replaced after just one year of service (traveling 60 km per day). Eventually it was rebuilt into an ordinary passenger carriage.
Steam power kind of has a strong economy of scale. It works very well on a large scale but it doesn't scale down very well. With internal combustion engines the larger they get the less efficient they often become. That's why the largest engines in the world are still steam engines.
This is also why the internal combustion engine was mainly a revolution for smaller vehicles like cars and motor boats.
@@MrMarinus18 Thank you! That was an interesting comment! After all, even nuclear submarines today could still be said to be "steam powered" in a way, even if the fuel is not coal anymore ...
Still, when a motor bus needs maintenance the whole vehicle needs to be taken out of service, just like the steam rail motors. You just can't remove the trucks from underneath and put in a replacement set straightaway like you can do with trams.
Interesting summary of a mode which seems to keep reappearing. Not certain about tram comparison, though. Most trams (at least in UK) at that time carried two crew, a conductor as well as a driver. Also, I’m not sure you can let passengers alight from a train anywhere. It’s not only a long way down from the door but you’d find yourself on fenced-in railway line. There would have to be established stopping points. Contrary to initial appearances, trains and trams serve different purposes and markets.
American mainline railways use grade level platforms and stairs.
But also one consistent problem with steam power is that it doesn't scale down very well. There is a reason steam powered cars never really caught on. When it comes to the world's largest engines like in power stations and on large ships steam power is still dominant.
@@MrMarinus18 Actually steam powered cars and aircraft were a “thing”.
The problem was always startup and shutdown time. A steam locomotive needs at least an hour to start and another hour to safely shutdown of constant supervision.
Flash boilers used in cars and aircraft got this down to about five minutes but not “turn a key and go”.
Electric cars were popular in the 1900’s precisely because they were easy to start. Electric starters were what made internal combustion engines able to supersede them with longer range and lower prices.
Could you do a video on the class 40s
I think the problem is that controls for steam engines are mechanically linked, so the driver has to be next to the engine itself. Which means the engine can only realistically be at the front. Electric motors on the other hand can be placed anywhere on the train and only the driver and controls need to go at the front or at the back of the train.
Not all push-pull systems used mechanical linkages, some like that used on the NER/LNER used a vacuum controlled regulator which allowed more coaches between the driver and the locomotive than the purely mechanical systems as used, for example, on the GWR which was limited to a maximum of 2 coaches either side of the locomotive.
In Sydney Australia they were used over a hundred years ago. I believe they weren’t a favorite of the suburban communities they past through. Mainly due to the smoke, soot and ash the belched out into streets. The house wives hated there sheets being covered in soot. They were much happier when they all converted to electricity.🇦🇺
The Kogarah-Sans Souci Line wasn't converted from steam trams to trolley buses until 1937, and the last steam trams in Parramatta went in 1943. Steam lines in Sydney's Eastern Suburbs ran on wide roads (e.g. Oxford Street) and their own reservations (e.g., Anzac Parade) Soot and steam were not such a problem in such locations.
Sitting in a historic carriage behind a steam locomotive tends to be pretty dirty regardless. I can't imagine what it would be like to sit with the locomotive in a steam-powered railcar. Today''s trains with their tightly sealed windows and air-conditioning make the train-riding experience much nicer.
Is the background music the FNaF 6 theme or am I crazy?
How about the most northern rail route in the world?
there is a preserved steam tram in Rockhampton.
What about Doodlebugs? Aren't they like railcars?
A much more successful design. The Victorian Railways in Australia had a class of doodlebugs in service from 1928 until around 1992.
Although by about 1950 the Winton motors had worn out and were replaced by EMD or Detroit diesel motors. The class being then called DERMs.
A few preserved ones still running fan trips and on preserved lines.
Well I guess we could see where the BR class 101 came from
Whato All.
Nice but why the background music?
In denmark the 3 generations of steam cars kitts rowan(1880), arlöf (1910)and sentinel (1920) all had reliability issues and was converted to wagons within 16 years and none was converted to internal combustion even though there was a trend in denmark to convert regułar 2 axle coaches into railcars (Triangel cars)
Two of the Rowan steam railcars were built for the Victorian Railways in Australia for service on the least used Melbourne suburban lines. Lots of the public wanted them for their local areas hoping they would make Railways to sparsely populated suburbs economically possible. Ran on 1600mm broad gauge. Often needing repairs.
Around 1900 they were withdrawn and purchased by private logging lines for conversion to logging locomotives without much success.
See the coffee pot on the pitchi ritchi railway in South Australia,,
I do love railcars, myself!
My reading comprehension thought that *Steam* (as in steam from valve corporation) powered carriages
The selsey tramway uesd railbus when things started to go down hill
None of the big 4 wanted to take on the tramway so it was left as its own thing
Wow the Steam Multiple Unit
Anyone realize he used the flag 6 song Just ad Water for background music
Flag 6?
Did your autocorrect not like you saying FNaF 6?
There were railcars on the Whitby/Pickering/Malton line in the late 40's and I am sure they were steam operated. If my memory is letting me down I would appreciate a correction.
Drumm Battery EMUs next
Interesting to see
Maybe if it electric it could be profitable nowadays
This episode of Train of Thought brought to you by McDougall's patent Self Raising Flour.
Grandfarher of the subway
Poor Toby....
Both, i say thit engine have be use for branch lines well about heme diesel railcar wont be existe, in fact the Steam railcar have be presseve in didcot, i préfère to Cal SMU (Steam multiple Unit).
I would have thought that randomly stopping would be a signalling issue.
Railcars Are Interesting So Steam Powered Ones? Cool
I think you just described electric cars.
Fewer people.
1:10 there’s Floras basis
I like to call them SMUs... Steam Multiple Unit lol
Which is worse, a steam railmotor, or a Pacer?
Easy, the steam railmotor. The Pacers lasted 40 years, which is longer than some of the units they replaced.
Time for a steam pacer. To reduce costs, it will be made up of a 4 wheeled freight wagon, atop which is an entire traction engine and a park bench.
So technically, it’s a vintage subway
No, that was a different venture in steam. This was more of a vintage bus.
@@templar_1138or a tram
Subways are already vintage
@@crunkaintdead7702 expect like a lot
No
I guess steam-powered railcars and units just don’t work as well as they sound.
We should still have steam powered carriages & trams but without a burning fuel source,
just use electricity to heat up bricks that then keep the water hot like how it does so with a heating system in a building.
Why not use the electricity to, you know, power the actual train like we've been doing since forever..
That's a horribly inefficient way to use electricity. Just use a motor.
efficiency problems. a regular EMU would do the job much more efficiently, safely, and cheaply
That's not efficient, coal will heat the water better, and why don't just use electricity to run the train?
Steam power railcarriage should've been on thomas and friends.
Voir motrice a vapeur "kittel dampftriebwagen" en Suisse. Steam motor car in switzerland.