How Hard Was it to Reload the M1 Garand in Combat?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ก.ย. 2024
- As a follow-up to our video on the history of the M1, today we're looking at keeping the Garand fed. A lot of M1 fans have been quick to bust the old myth that "you can't top off a Garand." It's not technically true, but for the GI in combat, would it have been a feasible option?
Our deep-dive history on the M1 Garand: • How Garand's Rifle Bec...
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My uncle went in at Normandy in the second wave. He made it to the Rhine river and got sidelined by frost bite. He told me that that M-1 was his talisman, his baby and loading was easy after the first hundred times. Never "top off", just eject and load a full one. The weight was good when you needed to hit something in your way. His experience has stayed with me all these years. RIP Uncle Otto. (and ya, they gave him shit about his name)
I was thinking about this during the video. I was doubting that the average infantryman would be walking (or running, crawling, etc) around with loose rounds of ammo to top off his service weapon. All the ammo he had on would most likely already be loaded into the en bloc clips. Just ejecting the current partially filled clip and inserting a fully loaded clip makes more sense.
He might well save the ejected one for later, “just in case” - with the possible goal of scavenging loose rounds to refill it, should the chance present itself.
When things get *busy,* there’s no such thing as too much ammunition. Besides, these guys would have endured the Great Depression, and *want teaches one to not waste resources.*
@@dennisyoung4631 He did say he filled a lot of empty clips with unbelted machinegun ammo. (discarding the tracers) At times they couldn't get the cloth belts with the clips already made. They usually out ran their supply trane and had to just make-do until caught up.
My Dad was in the tail end of the PTO. Not a real big fella but he could shoot. Selected for OCS at the “Benning School For Boys” because he said they were “ Running through 2Lt’s like toilet paper “. He was issued an M1 Carbine and got rid of it. Liked the Garand better and jap snipers would not single you out with standard G.I. gear.
Respect to your Uncle Otto.
The GIs I talked to would pop out the partial clip and put it in their jacket pocket. When they had a few minutes they would crossload partial clips and put the full ones back in their pouches.
If there was anything that vaguely looked like a target they just mag dumped and reloaded. It was pretty rare that they were conserving ammo.
That's the method that I expected they would use, it intuitively makes the most sense and it's the most similar to how box magazine semiautos are used now.
The whole "you can't top up an M1" argument is specious to me. You can't top up an M1 carbine magazine or an M16 magazine any easier. For all three weapons the answer is the same: drop the magazine or eject the clip, then reload and stash the partial mag or clip in a pocket, or down your shirt until you have assaulted through the objective and can consolidate at the stop line. The only difference is that the M1 rifle ejects the round in the chamber, but it the enemy is that close, then maybe you should just keep shooting!
@@ocorbitt Kudos, I had to look up the word specious, never heard that before. And you are correct. You don't hear people docking points from the AR platform because its "difficult to top off the magazine".
Yes, agreed....I mean they usually had plenty of ammo, no need to conserve & worry about running out & respawning. Lofl
Been there done that. And its hard as hell to reload a partial clip when the shooting starts.
Remove the partial clip, put in a full one, and when you get the chance take your partial clips and consolidate them into full clips.
Propper top off - eject and load full clip.
Question for those asking like the officer mentioned, where does the infantryman get loose rounds ? Ammo was issued in clips. If he has any singles it's from partially shot clips which could have been refilled when time permits.
@ Bidimus1 - Loose 30-06 would be typically obtained from delinked machine-gun ammo, if preloaded en-block clipped 30-06 was not available in the standard pre-loaded bandoliers. Or if the GIs were breaking into an older case of ammo loaded on stripper clips intended for use in M1903 Springfield rifles. There was a lot of surplus 30-06 Ball ammo around during WW2 which dated from WW1 and the inter-war period. Loose rounds could sometimes also be scavenged from the battlefield after the engagement ended, i.e., by stripping the dead of their ammo or picking up any found lying around. Obviously, these are non-standard methods of replenishing one's supply, but it happened plenty of times during the war.
I have had this conversation with a Korean War vet that I know. He has dispelled many of the myths that I've heard. I asked him about "Garand Thumb" and he just started laughing.
I’ve never used it in combat being a young’n
However, I used one as my main firearm for years. It’s not as complicated or quirky as people make it out to be.
Anybody with time on the platform will tell you Garand Thumb is from closing the bolt on an empty chamber, not loading.
GT is something that was trained out in basic as a part of their rifle drill. You'd have to learn to do it properly to execute Inspection Arms and the follow on Port Arms.
New recruits can obviously flub it, but 22-5 of the time and the FM's related to the M1 Rifle clearly stated you put the meat of the side of your bladed hand against the charging handle.
I've known that since high school and have never snapped my thumb in an M1.
Yeah, you would almost have to do it on purpose to get your thumb caught
@@zachhaus8488 nope.. 😉 kindly do not ask me how I know. 😢
Another thing to consider, topping off or reloading isn’t as dire as it might seem. These guys fought as a squad, you can reload under cover of your buddies.
But if your buddies are letting rip, you’re just gonna do the same thing until you hear that “ping.”
If you ever had to reload, it was because you needed to stay quiet and top off.
Like most things; muscle memory from practice is great. While I never shot the Garland in the combat, I shot at least 250 rounds per day, 5 days a week, for 2 weeks preparing for Marine Corps Divisional Matches while waiting for the armorer to get M-14s into match condition. On several occasions while on the firing line we'd have to clear, or top off rounds. We also had to reload during strings of rapid fire. The first couple days it was a learning curve but by the end of the week those if us with Grands were almost as fast as the guys that already had the M-14.
..I would hope you wouldn't take a shot at anyone named Garland unless it WAS in combat!
Sorry, I know, typo, but I couldn't resist.
Maybe Merrick Garland. He's pretty damn useless.
It's faster to put a clip in the M1, than to change a magazine of an M14.
@@ralfrude3532 in my experience, this is absolutely true. I still think the M1 would have been better if they stuck with John Garand’s original stripper clip design.
@ Dick Johnson - Thanks for your story. At a local outdoor/shooting sports club maybe ten years ago, I happened to witness a three-gun match which had some older competitors taking part. The men were Vietnam War veterans, as it turned out; one looked old-enough to be a Korean War veteran, but I can't say for sure. They would have been at a minimum in their late seventies at the time, but you'd never guess it to see those old infantrymen run their M-1s! It was very impressive, let's just say, to see how those gentlemen could wield those rifles and how quickly and smoothly they could get a fresh 8-round en-bloc clip into the rifle and be back in action against the clock. Before the spent one hit the dirt... the onlookers/audience were very impressed and they got a well-earned round of applause.
My dad was a forward observer in the Philippines 42-45 this is what he carried. Gone now, but I appreciate vids like this that tell me more about the weapons used.
So, what would be the biggest problem of just ejecting the partially full clip, but pocketing it, and then stuffing in a full clip prior to the next assault? That way, the partial clip could be topped up later when the soldier had time.
Depends on how much time you think you have. It's a lot of down-time for the gun if you're under fire. Also, if you've got fewer than six or seven rounds remaining, the rounds don't stay neatly lined up in the clip when you eject it. They kind of go all over unless you catch them just right and it's tricky to grab all the rounds and the clip without dropping at least a couple of them (this becomes a lot more clear if you attempt it without the aid of a shooting bench to catch everything). If you're pretty sure you've only got 1-3 rounds left in the gun, it would be quicker to just crank them off and reload. That way, you don't even have to manually open the bolt.
Here's a relevant quote from Col. Whaling from Hatcher's Book of the Garand: "The clip, as it is now designed, is a waster of ammunition. When one, two, or three rounds have been fired, the user naturally wants to replenish his magazine so that he will have the full eight rounds ready for the next target, or perhaps for a Banzai charge. But after one or more shots have been fired, it is so difficult to reload that the remaining four, five, or six rounds are invariably fired at once, and a fresh clip is inserted. Such excessive firing wastes ammunition, and discloses positions, especially at night. The Garand clip-loading system should be replaced by a magazine similar to that on the BAR or the carbine."
the people shooting at you would be your biggest problem.
@@LuckyGunner I wish this - the rounds going all over - had been in the video! I would have understood the whole topping off question a lot better with it.
@@ciphergoth I think the other option that's not discussed is just ejecting the partially loaded clip and making no attempt to retain it. It's been a while since I've messed with a Garand, but I think even the 1-3 loose rounds get ejected with enough force not to interfere with the action, especially since it locks open. That seems better than firing them to empty it, except for the vulnerable second or two that the gun is empty. Either way, the rounds get wasted.
@@ciphergoth indeed, it took me a bit of practice just to load the damn clip in the first place, as those loose rounds want to fall all over the place!
Interesting. I did not carry an M1 in combat, but I went through Basic and AIT with an M1 (Fort Carson, 1961). My recollection is that they never tried to teach us how to
"add a round" or load single rounds. It was a great rifle. Auto loading, but you could put rounds on target repeatedly at 1000 - 1500 feet. My Dad did active duty combat in WWII (Pacific) and Korea. As he and one of my rifle range instructors once said "It'll reach out and get it." And as an instructor said "You hit a man anywhere, with it, he goes down and stays down." Chuck Pekor
I liked this video. I had qualified with the M-1, M-14 And M-16 during my time in the national Guard (M-1) and the US. Army (M-14 and M16) With a Tour in Vietnam with the M-16. The one thing I have to tell you Is, I don't know how other Vet's Feel, But when you refer to these Weapons as "Guns" It strikes a nerve. I guess what I learned in Basic training is Burnt into my Brain. Thanks for a Interesting Video.
It's interesting that older design guns with tubuler magazines like lever and pump actions are much easier to top off and they stay in battery while doing so. Thanks for sharing.
True, but the bullets used in tubular magazines of those days were limited to flat-nose type, so the the bullet tip of one round was not resting against the primer of the next round during the shock of firing. In modern times, this issue has been addressed with polymer tips (see Hornady LeveRevolution series, for example) but this was not an option during the war for ballistic tip rounds like the .30-06.
the funny thing about the garand is it's a design essentially from 1924... a really early autoloading designed that had simply been refined for a decade before somebody finally adopted it.
At the time of it's development, the idea of a box magazine was still kind of dubious, since experiences with the then-current stamped metal magazines had proven extremely problematic in ww1, simply do to crude construction. If the mags in your gear got banged around as one would expect on a battlefield, a lot of them simply would not function. It was a big reason why the 30-06 chauchat was so reviled by american gunners.... gun worked fine, magazines were crap.
So the garand was designed to not have to deal with that problem by making as many of the fragile parts of the magazine integral to the gun to avoid both the problems of cheap magazines and the expense of high-quality ones, with the drawback of not being able to reload a partial mag seen as an acceptable trade off.... which, in fairness, makes a lot of sense for the time. Many armies stuck with bolt actions for the cost reason, even if they objectively new the box magazine was better.
Your last video did leave me with some questions. I looked around and found the answers to those questions, but you answered them here too. Thx for listening and for updating us.
Glad you enjoyed it!
I think we need to remember that we have the benefit of hindsight, from a very different age. The big advantage that the M1 introduced to combat at the time, was the ability for a single rifleman to provide effective suppression fire, and its success at this one thing was the biggest influence in the move to semi-auto and select fire rifles for all infantry after that. Compared to bolt actions with stripper clips, or semi-auto with one-at-a-time reloading like the Johnson, the M1 with its enbloc was clearly superior for sustained fire.
I do think an M1 with a detachable magazine would have been even better, if the magazine and its detach system were done well. But, this wasn't how it turned out. They had the rifles they had.
If it wasn't for the Garand the development of a rifle calibre box magazine gun would most likely have been later than it was. Adding capacity and the slightly faster reload as an attempt to improve on the Garand.
The Thompson using pistol calibre rounds was the biggest choke for it getting adopted for use, the pistol rounds just didn't hit like the rifle rounds and the military wanted the rifle punch.
Feel the need to point out that the Johnson Rifle was Stripper clipped loaded as well.
Put tge clip in the load gate, it will slide into a knock, and you just push it in like a Standard mag or bolt action. You just needed to do that twice to fully loaded it with 10 rounds like tge Brit Enfield.
Basicall an M14 IS an M1 with a detachable mag. It doesn't have the bullet follower group of course since that all basically came with the mag, but the bolt, trigger housing group, and sights are still M1, just chambered for 7.62x51 NATO instead of 30.06. I carried the M14 in RVN before being issued an M16.
I heard that a Garand rifle with a detachable magazine was developed, but ordinance branch didn’t want it. I don’t know what the reasoning was, but it probably had to do with the fact that the ammunition was already clipped at the factory and soldiers would have to spend time unclipping the ammo just to load it into a magazine.
@@gobblox38 The M14 is basically a magazine fed M1 chambered to 7.62x51 NATO. It's also capable of automatic fire like a BAR and even has a bipod in that configuration. I've been issued both (including an automatic version in Vietnam -- I have the holes inclouds to prove it) in my time, and I know what I'm talking about.
One common M1 myth you never mentioned was the one where the audible "ping" of the empty clip being ejected would get GIs killed, as it would betray your unloaded state to the enemy. Every vet I talked to said there was so much noise going on during a battle that nobody was going to be able to make out the sound of the ejecting clip, and even if they did they could count on your buddy next to you still having a loaded rifle to shoot them with.
Talked to a WWII Combat Vet. He said he always carried an empty clip to toss and make the PING to try and decoy the Germans into rushing him. What do I know? Personally, a 1911 on my hip would have made the issue moot.
YEAH , THAT CRAP ABOUT THE PING IS BATSHIT THERE IS SO MUCH DAMN NOISE IN THE HEAT OF BATTLE YOU CAN'T HEAR A DAMNED THING ANYWAYS .
"Ping" a Marine vet from the pacific told me YES it was done with the M1
He was on Iwo, also said japs could tell the different sounds of the M1 and BAR
He was a BAR Man and had his magazines modified. Extended by a navy machinest to hold extra rounds.
The japs would round count and charge thinking he was reloading "Surprise "
@@jimdavenport8020 My dad said that an empty N block thrown against a stone wall invited a BONSAI!! And you take him out with your Garand 1 second later. He was in several invasions in the South Pacific. I shot his Garand many times at 6 years of age at the rifle range in the 1950's. WWII and Korean War Vets always flipped out for letting my dad let a 45 pound kid shoot it. Does it kick? ''No, but the bench moved'' he always told them. He would have some Vet call out my shot placement at 100 yards. 9 times out of 10 I could put all 8 shots in the black. Pop loved that game, won lots of bets because of me. My rifle was a .30 carbine. I never once got Garand thumb and I could field strip that thing in the dark. We shot corrosive ammo, stripped and cleaned them every time we came back from the range.
Correct. This was never, ever an issue. Shove it in and get it working again!
The situation where a soldier has time to think about topping up his rifle, but also no time to reload his rifle, seems like an edge case. Above all the us army drilled to conserve ammo, so dumping rounds to reload would be highly discouraged. Training was to remove the partial clip and replace with a fresh one, stow the partial for consolidation later. This gave you 8 rounds vs 7.
Clips vs box mags is a done debate, but the Johnson system is slower than the Garand in normal use. It requires 2 stripper clips for normal loading. The Garand was faster in every other scenario.
This kind of manipulation was absolutely well known at the time, and isn’t difficult to teach. Heck actor Damian Lewis did it in Band of Brothers without too much trouble. These guys lived with their rifles but didn’t know how to remove ammo from the gun? Seems unlikely.
There was a scene in Band of Brothers, episode 5 "Crossroads" where Damian Lewis, portraying Captain Winters, at the time, has Joe Liebgott escort some captured SS troops back to their command post for interrogation. He tells Liebgott to drop his ammo, then unloads the remaining rounds from Liebtgott's M1, chambers a single round and hands back the rifle saying "You have ONE round. You drop one, the rest will jump you."
I don't think topping off was in common practice. I'm sure it was done with whatever leftover rounds they had previously pocketed when there was a lull in the fighting or whatever, but I don't believe our soldiers were ever issued loose rounds, as resupply for M1s came in bandoliers of 8 round clips and any loose rounds they happened across had to be stripped from machine gun belts.
The Johnson Rifle didn't have to be loaded twice. You could just load five rounds from one stripper clip, get back into the action and keep reloading as needed. The nice thing about this is that the rifle doesn't ever have to be empty to reload. You can top off at anytime without having to open the action. The other nice thing is in regards to logistics. It uses the same stripper clip as the M1903 Springfield and the M1917 Enfield. Unfortunately, there is no satisfying "ping" to let you know that your magazine is empty. 😉
6:37 - Is the manual unload and reload really that slow? I wouldn't discount this method. Flip the rifle over, let the clip fall to the ground, throw the other one in and go - or some variation there-of. In a warzone, in the readying for attack scenario, a soldier won't be playing around trying to preserve the half-spent clip when a full clip could mean living or dying.
Exactly. Also US soldiers weren't held back cause of expensive or cumbersone magazines. The Garand was objectively the cheapest semi auto rifle of ww2 to reload.
Pushing the tab to remove the partially loaded clip will kick it completely out of the rifle. Don't need to turn the rifle upside down. Perhaps it might be necessary to tilt the rifle to one side slightly to get the partially loaded 8 round clip to fall away. It isn't at all difficult. It also easy to grab the ejected clip and stuff it somewhere if there are a few seconds to spare. People are making this sound way this way harder than it really is.
*Everytime Chris says "clip"
Me: "IT'S NOT A C----....oh wait, yeah, he's good"
🤓
Me too
_Memories of /k/_
CLIPCLIPCLIPCLIPCLIPCLIPCLIPCLIPCLIPCLIP....
En bloc 'clips' were the 'Mannlicher Packet Loading System' with origins in the Gewehr 1888. A difference with the Garand was its top ejection rather than the open bottom of late 19th Century Mannlicher designs which allowed an empty 'clip' to drop free.
I was in the last basic training company in FT Leonard Wood MO in 1963 to train on the M1. We were never taught to partial load a clip. We were told to fire off the clip and load a new one. Where were you going to get the loose rounds from? M1 food came in ammo cans packed with 8 fully loaded clips in a bunch of cloth bandoleers. It still does if you can find any military surplus anymore. You never reloaded M1 clips in the field back then like you do modern magazines with strip clips. It is slow and tedious to do, as I found out when I bought my Garand several years ago. Mags run $15 or more each, but if you ever bought mil surplus M1 food, you have a ton of free clips left over to fill.
I joined the US Army Infantry in 1959. When we were recruits we spent hours and hours practicing loading the M-1 Rifle. They had the 8 round clips modified with a block of wood to replace the cartridges so that they would stay in the rifle. We were dived into teams of two, riflemen and coach. The shooter closed the bolt of his M-1 over an empty 8 round clip. We started in the prone position but as our training progressed we did it kneeling and standing. We would take a well aimed dry fire shot, they had targets set up, the Sergeants would patrol to be sure we were actually taking aim. ( I can't be certain in 2024 but I think the Sergeants had some kind of mirror thing they could put on our sight to see out sight picture when we fired?) When we clicked off the shot the coach, also laying prone facing us would slam our operating handle back ejecting the empty clip. Ping! Then we would take the modified clip with the block of wood and insert it in the Rifle and resume dry firing a couple of rounds with our coach slamming the operating rod back each time to cock the Rifle. We'd open the bolt and eject the modified clip and start the drill over. When the Sergeants got tired we would change places with our coach and he would be the Rifleman. We did this for hours during our first 8 weeks of training. This was formal training so it must be in some Army manual some where. We were later trained by the Sergeants, all WWII and Korean War Veterans to just dump the partial clip and insert a fresh 8 round one if necessary. We were taught to hold the clip release down as we pulled the charging handle to the to the rear with the M-1 tilted to the right so the clip and ammo would just fall out. Recover the used clip and the rounds if possible. That in most instances in combat to fire until the clip ejected. By the time we had 8 weeks in the Army we could load an M-1 in seconds, in the dark with our eye closed, up side down, under water in a blizzard, eh? When with real bullets they had several 9 round drills that we started with one round in the chamber and had to load a full clip in timed exercisers and to qualify as a Rifleman. Yes, too long but some may be interested, eh? General Patton was correct it was the best (semi-auto) battle rifle ever. With three tours under my belt in Viet Nam I think it is a shame we did not keep the M-1 Rifle for that little adventure.
Thank you for this insight. I figured the simplest solution would be what was normally done, but you confirmed it. Also, thank you for your service! 🫡 🇺🇸
With the Garands we used in italian army ( mine was Springfield armoury but if memory doesn't trick me was Beretta modified for the 7,62 N.A.T.O. ammunition...) it was simple: grab the magazine with right hand, open the chamber with right hand palm keeping it open and push the magazine down with Your right hand thumb. Ka-chunk!
Like any high school kid I was obsessed with WW2 and read a lot of WW2 memoirs. I do recall one book where a GI mentioned a joke about how they would use the first shot to drop an enemy, and empty the next 7 shots into that person on the ground. Dumping the ammo by firing isn't too far fetched with that in mind I guess.
I have used my M1 in three gun competitions. No problem reloading, but I only reloaded from empty. The WW2 manual suggested laying it across your left knee if standing.
Great stuff Mover. Perfect balance of letting the guests talk and keeping things moving.
Interesting video Chris. I think I'll make my own presentation positing my own theorem on the same subject. My M1 Garand short about single-loading, unloading, and partially loading the M1 got an incredible amount of views and with it, a lot of comments asking questions abnout the M1 with many asking questions specifically about top-off reloading.
Thanks Jared, I look forward to seeing your take on the subject
As a Kraut from Germany, i find this really interresting!
While it was apparently not commonly used, 'topping off' would be a good way to conserve ammo if resupply was running a bit behind.
When I saw the topic, I was hoping to see something of a 'Mad Minute', emptying and reloading an M1 as fast as possible. I've seen it stated that an experienced M1 rifleman can keep up with a mag-fed rifle.
Running low on ammo was the exception, not the rule. The United States had logistics that boggled the mind.
@@craigfelter Yep, especially when you consider that the US Army started from zilch; it was essentially a territorial border guard in the late '30s. This is why some have claimed that the US won wars by burying the enemy in stuff... Still, sometimes getting that 'stuff' the last mile or two (or even few yards) to the guys who need it was a bit tough.
I would think an M Garand is still a pretty good thing to have when your enemy only has a bolt action rifle.
@ Warblerab 295 - The Garand rifle was just as revolutionary in its own way as such weapons as the German MG34 and MG42 or the MP43/StG44. When the first general-purpose machine guns - the MG34 in this case - began to appear, the Heer (German Army) reorganized its small unit doctrine, centering the squad around the protection and supply of the machine gun. Individual riflemen armed with Mauser K98Ks or even SMGs, it was recognized, could not compete with the firepower the new GMPGs offered.
In the American military, however, since the squad and platoon now contained men armed with the M-1 rifle, the firepower of the unit was enhanced at the level of the individual soldier or later (as the Corps finally adopted the M-1 itself) Marine. That gave these units a lot of firepower, in addition to the Browning M1919 medium-machine guns and BARs they already had. This in turn allowed the use of "fire and maneuver" doctrine by infantry, which became central to the wartime Army and USMC in combat.
An uncle on my wife's side of the family, now deceased, was in combat in the Korean War as a soldier in the U.S. Army. I had a chance to discuss his war-time experiences with him on a number of occasions, and once asked him about his M-1 rifle. He grew quiet and serious for a moment and then said, "If it wasn't for my Garand rifle, I wouldn't have made it home alive." That's a pretty heavy-duty endorsement, coming that way from an old soldier. I was privileged to take part in getting this fine man some decorations he - because of some bureaucratic errors on the part of the army - did not get back then for his war-time service. It was a great day in his home, a small rural town, when the Senator pinned on his medals on Memorial Day at the local courthouse.
@@GeorgiaBoy1961 wow, thanks for the information and thanks to your uncle for his service to our country. Glad he made it back alive. Well done getting him the decorations he deserved but didn't get back then due to bureaucratic errors. Glad they were finally corrected.
@@warblerab2955 - Thanks for the kind words. I always tell people the military is both smart and dumb at the same time. This uncle of my wife's - let's call him Uncle Charlie - and his experiences with the army are a case in point.
He had taken some grenade or mortar fragments in the leg and some other wounds in action against the communist Chinese in 1951. Most of his unit was either wounded or dead by that time; attrition had been high against their human wave tactics. He was evacuated to Japan after initial medical treatment in Korea. His CO recommended him for some decorations, but the paperwork was destroyed in a warehouse fire in Tokyo. He did a limited duty stint in Japan, but didn't go back to Korea due to his wounds not being fully healed, then was sent home.
Back home in CONUS (this was late 1952 or 1953), Charlie was told "You can hang around for a couple of weeks until your reconstructed records get here, or you can go home now..." so he went home to be with his wife. And never got his decorations or had the chance to meet his buddies again and thank them for getting him to the aid station in time.
That brings us to 2008-2009, which is when Charlie's daughter approached me about getting her aging father those decorations he'd earned but never received. We had to fight the DOD/Pentagon, Army and VA bureaucracy, because they were a royal pain in the rear. Charlie still had those fragments in his leg; you could see 'em on an X-Ray... but Big Green wanted some sort of "proof" that he was who he said he was and that he had actually been wounded. We finally got one of our state's Senators involved and were finally able to shake things loose. I told Charlie that I was about ready to go to the newspapers with his X-ray photo and publish that, I was so disgusted with those clowns over at the VA - but luckily that didn't prove to be necessary.
In fairness to the bureaucrats, there were two and not just one warehouse fires. The one in Tokyo I mentioned before and another larger one in St. Louis MO. in the early 1970s which burned up a whole bunch of military service records from WW2 and Korea.
Glad we got it done while he was still alive, because he passed away a few years back. Charlie wanted to get those medals not for himself, but as a chance to publicly thank the unknown soldiers who got him to the battalion aid station or wherever in time to save his life and also his old buddies in his unit. Since he was unconscious for much of the time after being hit, he didn't know much about that period of time.
@@GeorgiaBoy1961 Sorry you had to go through all that trouble to get him what he deserved, but glad he finally got them before he passed on. God Bless him.
The Garand is a masterpiece. The en-bloc clips are so much quicker to change than a box magazine. Up here in Kanadistan 🇨🇦 we can only have 5 rounds in a semi-auto rifle…with the M1 being an exception. At least for now, until they ban everything. 🤦🏻♂️ great video.
En bloc 'clips' were the 'Mannlicher Packet Loading System'. A difference with the Garand was its top ejection rather than the open bottom of late 19th Century Mannlicher designs which allowed an empty 'clip' to drop free.
I feel for Canadians. They're trying to take firearms away from us Yanks as well, but we have the Bill of Rights-it isn't so easy down here.
Basic Training 1957 Ft Bliss TX Drill Instructor "convinced" you to reload with a fresh clip in 5 seconds or less. Old Korean War vet, who said bullets flying over your head improved your dexterity.
What people fail to realize is that the soldier/marine on a battlefield is never alone, Hollywood have you believe otherwise. The Rifleman is part of a Fire-Team, with in a Squad, with in a Platoon. The Platoon is the smallest tactical maneuver unit on a battlefield. So, at the very least you're with 4 others, within the platoon of 30-plus depending on organic unit make-up.
The "out of battery slam fire" is mixing two separate and district failures that are inherent the M1s design. They are not the same thing and the result of each is quite different!
"Occam's Razor" would suggest that your average G.I. simply ejected the partial clip, stuck it in his pocket with the rounds jumbled up, and inserted a new clip before proceeding. Later on, he'd probably reload the few loose clips and rounds in his pockets with whatever ammo he could find.
Chris,
My mother's brother, Edward Leonard, was in the invasion of North Africa, served in Armored Reconnaissance which meant armored cars - not tanks. Landed at Anzio beachhead and went "up the bloody boot". Liberated Rome and then landed on the southern coast of France, advancing north.
I asked him about the M-1 and he floored me when he said he preferred the 1903 Springfield for accuracy or the .30 caliber machine gun, which was probably vehicle mounted.
As usual, they were sent behind enemy lines and the only thing they had for navigation was Michelin road maps and the occasional French civilian to get intelligence about German positions and numbers. They were ordered to take a small town named Montrevel southeast of Lyon and hold it to block the retreat of German forces going back to Germany. Their unit consisted of 100 GIs who had picked up 150 German prisoners along the way. When they got to Montrevel, they put the prisoners in a cellar for safe keeping and took up defensive positions for the expected arrival of retreating Germans.
The lead element of the retreating force was 6,000 men with Tiger or Leopard tanks, followed by the main force of 30,000 men. The US recon force engaged in a fierce battle in which they expended all of their ammunition with no means of re-supply. When all ammunition was gone, the German commander ordered the Americans to come out. They came out and when the German commander saw this he said: "No, I want ALL of your men to come out!" The reply was: "Sorry, this all the men we have." The German commander was floored by the fact that such a small force had put up such a furious fight. The Germans buried their dead from the battle and the commander said: "Don't worry, we are not the SS. We are the regular German army."
The Americans were taken into the retreating column of Germans to be interned at a POW camp at Frankfurt-on-the-Oder on the eastern border of Germany. My uncle was doing farm work at the camp because of the opportunity to pick up food such as potatoes or oats from the horses feeding troth. And he was even entrusted with wire cutters to repair agricultural fencing. After 9 months, the Russians advanced to the camp and captured it, but kept the Americans behind the wire. Having wire cutters, my uncle and a few others decided to cut their way out while the Russians were sleeping. They then infiltrated their way back through German-held territory until they met advancing American recon columns who merely pointed the way back to the American main forces. A few years ago, my uncle, Edward Leonard, was invited to the French Consulate in New York City to receive the French Legion of Honor (Chevalier) along with a number of others in a somewhat delayed recognition of their struggle.
I'm not a Combat Vet, but these are questions that sometimes run through my mind. What do we know about Soldiers Carrying M-1 Garands during WWII? Going by the multitude of pics that have been published, I can tell that most soldiers armed with an M-1 Garand held their enbloc clips on the standard M-1923 cartridge belt worn at the time, which held only 10 enbloc clips. Some soldiers would hook a few clips on their slings, but when you see that on pics, it's usually 3-4 clips being carried like that. Adding more would make the Garand even heavier than it already is. Airborne Soldiers would add riggers pouches on the strap that connected the two halves of their M-1923 cartridge belts, that connecting strap could hold two rigger pouches and each rigger pouch could hold 5 enbloc clips. This would increase the amount of enbloc clips being carried to 20.
The US Army also had M-1 Ammunition Carrying bags, these could carry many enbloc clips, but you rarely see those on pics. Probably because they weren't issued to every single soldier. I imagine these were issued 2-3 per squad. An M-1 Ammunition Bag is able to hold about 30 clips if you pack them in carefully. This makes the bag very heavy though, but if 2-3 soldiers were carrying them per squad, that can add an additional 90 clips per squad.
I imagine that Soldiers with cargo pockets on their paints, also carried enbloc clips in those pockets. Off course there's a limit to how many enbloc clips you could carry in cargo pockets. Carry too much, and you can't walk, let alone run, and your pants may end up around your ankles.
So, with all this in mind. Was it practical for WWII Soldiers to also carry loose rounds to top off their Garands. To me, this seems like just more trouble than it's worth. I could be wrong off course.
It’s quite an interesting design how the clip becomes a guide for the rounds as the elevator keeps raising them up and the lips of the clips become feed lips for that top round. An interesting side note is that rear end of the operating rod spring is pushing on the elevator and provides the working force for both. By having the action open it increases the preload on the spring and increase the upward pressure on the rounds into the feel lip. It also ensures proper force to eject the clip after the last round. This is in contrast to the M1A/M14 having the operating spring fixed end going into the front of the magazine well and having an internal guide rod.
_En bloc_ 'clips' were the 'Mannlicher Packet Loading System'. A difference with the Garand was its top ejection rather than the open bottom of late 19th Century Mannlicher designs which allowed an empty 'clip' to drop free.
the elevator ? its called the follower arm .... some of yall dont have a clue how the M1 Garand functions and operates much less use the correct terms for components ..... LOL
the follower doesn't eject the clip, there is a separate spring just for that. it's in the bottom of the magazine to the left. it can be seen if you remove the fire control unit. I have a Garand I built from parts kit so fairly familiar with how it works.
Chris, a great video as always. Keep up the great work. Talking about the options for what to do when the Garand is down to the last few rounds, I don't think you mentioned pulling your sidearm. 1911 fans (like myself, I'll admit it) love to point out that more Medal of Honor recipients earned their medals with 1911s in hand than with any other pistol. All those local gun store lore stories about Private Kilroy bravely jumping into the enemy trench with pistol in hand just after the grenade went off-- maybe some of those stories happened because Kilroy had two rounds left in his long and heavy rifle and he didn't have time to top it off, and it's honestly unwieldy in a close quarters situation anyway. So Kilroy pulled Old Slabsides from its USGI flap holster and went to work out of sheer necessity of the moment, and later on everyone else went "Holy cow he took that trench with a PISTOL? We should put in for a medal on that..."
It's honestly something I've never considered before but suddenly it makes a lot of sense....
I believe that the vast majority of riflemen who used m1 garands did not get issued sidearms
@@GRAndreas7 Oooh I never knew that. Thank you.
@ Shooting Journey Guy Mike - All of what you wrote makes a lot of sense. The guys that always struck me as extraordinarily brave were the Vietnam War tunnel rats who - armed usually with just a M1911 pistol, a Ka-Bar knife and a flashlight, went down into V.C. tunnel complexes to clear them. These men were often of small stature since the tunnels were often built more-or-less to scale to fit the typical East Asian build. Well, maybe small in stature, but far as I am concerned, those guys were as big as can be when it comes to courage and fortitude.
A good discussion of the various techniques. I am one of the lucky ones with an M-1. I am also lucky that I have not been in combat... with ANY gun. My M-1 is now a range rifle. We shoot at a less stressful pace!
I spoke to a Wwii vet at my VFW years back. He was in d day at Omaha and other battles. Being a garand fan and owner we chatted about it. He said would pull the remaining clip and put in a fresh one and place the half clip and loose shells in his pocket until later if the need arose. He said it didn't come up often and he never really tried a top off because it seemed too fidgety. Ive only used mine in range and plinking conditions and never needed to do a top off, but if I did I would probably just swap clips if available.
Ps don't think he ever mentioned a time of ammo or clip shortage so I don't know what he would have done if he had to top off and only had loose rounds.
Enjoyed the video. M-1 was heavy. Everything is when you are carrying all day. M-1 was hard to top off. By modern standards yes but other rifles of the day had their top off issues, too. WWII ended 70+ years ago. Modern weapons are an improvement in many ways.
I have only had the pleasure and privilege of handling and firing a Garand one time ever. The weapon belonged to a Korean war veteran and he knew it like the back of his hand, that weapon was an extension of him. I asked him all of the usual questions regarding "Garand Thumb" and topping the weapon off mid ammo cycle and especially the infamous PING when the ammo clip was ejected. He scoffed and laughed at the Garand Thumb and PING questions and said that very few infantrymen would ever top off after less than 4 to 5 shots because it just took too long in a combat situation. I was curious to try and in a very relaxed and controlled environment at a outdoor shooting range, I had a very hard time topping the weapon off. Other than that, the weapon was absolutely wonderful in every way, i knew it was a 30-06, but the kick it had was quite noticeable, as was the weight.
It was the first rifle I was issued and have had a CMP rifle for over 30 years. The M-14 was next and replaced by the original M-16. Nice video.
Read the block about slam fire. You don't let the bolt slam shut. Let it forward, use the heel of the hand to move it fully into battery. In basic training, we got the command, "Lock, one round load."
Further, due to the internal design, the firing pin cannot go fully forward until the bolt is fully into battery.
The only people who can get a slam fire with an M-1 Rifle is the United States IRS and they can get a slam fire from a water gun if necessary, eh?
Excellent video, happy to see Shots Fired in Anger referenced.
My friend's dad was a US Army Scout from Normandy into Germany. He was issued an M1 Carbine and also carried a captured German sniper rifle. He had lots of observations about German and US front line troops. He said the German troops followed the manual of arms exactly, fire 5 rounds and reload. US troops were unpredictable and had the luxury of an almost endless supply of 30-06 in enblach clips. Sometimes in a lull they would top off, sometimes eject the clip and replace it. The US troops adapted to the situation. Peter claims that when one could ascertain a single German shooting, one could count 5, stand and shoot the German while he reloaded. The German's could not do the same unless they heard the M1 ping.
The M1 was superior to the 98k, more rounds in the magazine and faster operation. By time the Germans starting the STG they had severe amo shortages making full fire less likely. Our M1 toting troops did not encounter the STG much as it was mostly sent east. The bigger problem for the US Army were German Machine Guns. Peter said the scout jeeps were equipped with M2 .50 but these were too heavy for regular infantry.
Hard to fault as a battle rifle. Light armor piercing - punch a hole in an engine block if you are within one hundred yards. Lets you low crawl and shoot very low to the ground. Doesn't snag so bad going through bush. Not much muzzle flash, if any, in .308. Good rifle to defend the farm, that is, stationary use. Worst thing is the gap behind the bolt for the charging handle. Mine is set up with the clip ejector missing the tang ( "Holbruck device" actually detailed years before it was sold as such in the American Rifleman magazine). It doesn't go "ping" because it locks back the bolt and leaves the clip in the weapon. You reach up and eject it into your hand like you do with a partial clip. This is really no different than what you do with a box magazine - eject it by hitting the mag release. I don't loose clips in the snow that way.
Thanks for the update. I owned a Garand for a while, and had access to period military training material and NRA High Power match procedures for the Garand. The weight issue stemmed from the mandate for the powerful .30-06 cartridge--and in .276 Pedersen, the Garand held ten shots and was a couple of pounds lighter. A loaded M14 was actually heavier because 20 rounds of ammo weigh more than 8 and those rounds were contained in a magazine instead of a lightweight clip.
I haven't heard of using clips of grenade blanks. The M7 grenade launcher disabled the Garand's gas system to limit damage. Until the M7 was adopted in 1943, one rifleman (usually the assistant squad leader) in each rifle squad was issued the M1903 rifle and an M1 grenade launcher. The Springfield had a magazine cut-off and was designed from the start to be a single-loader rifle with a full magazine in reserve. Rifle grenade launching cartridges were shipped in ten round cartons. Note that in the Marine Corps instructions, the rifle or carbine is first cleared of live ammunition and then the grenade launching blank is inserted in the chamber. The First World War VB grenade was a shoot-through design for use with ball ammo, so the M1 and M7 grenade launchers may be considered a step back in technology. Or not.
www.90thidpg.us/Equipment/Projects/1903Launcher/index.html
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M7_grenade_launcher
www.koreanwaronline.com/history/Guidebook/Pages1/RifleGrenades.htm
www.inert-ord.net/usa03a/usarg/rg/index.html
www.oldammo.com/RifleGrenade.JPG
If you can get your hands on the M1D sniper variant, note the horizontal off-set scope so that clip loading can be used. This offset scope required a leather cheek piece and required zeroing the rifle so that the bore and scope were parallel--I can't find the offset at the moment.
The M1909 blank and the M3 grenade cartridge are different rounds. I encountered some 7.62mm grenade cartridges misused by the Nevada State Honor Guard for funerals--the team had ordered grenade cartridges thinking that they were blanks and someone complained about excessive recoil (?). It is easier to confuse the M1909 and M3 than the M82 blank and the M64 grenade cartridges for the M14 rifle because the M64 has a brass extension and the M82 has a crimped mouth. It matters a little because the US Navy developed a conversion unit so that the M1 Rifle could fire 7.62mm NATO ammunition.
I can't see topping off a M1 as anything other than an act of desperation. I have never seen concerns of topping off a M14 or M16.
When i was doing my military service in Denmark in 1981_1982 we all had the Garand, or M/50 as it was called in Denmark. Later in the mid 80's i had the HK G3 in the Danish homeguard. But the Garand was the most stable of the two. The G3 though had a 20 rounds magasiner and auto. But in snow and mud the Garand was Superior
What you can do to not lose the round when topping off the garand or bolt action is to put your support hand fingers over the bolt as you pull it back to catch the round before it ejects
I have a M-1941 Johnson. It's a nice shooter but that magazine makes the forestock thick and I personally find it a bit awkward to shoot off hand. My Garand on the other hand is very comfortable.
Joined the National Guard in 1967. Was surprised that we still had M-1's. Had he M-14 in basic training. Were issued M-16's back in the unit.
We had a class in my Army Basic Training Summer 1962, on topping off the M1 Garand. The Infantry unit I was put in in Oct 1962 still used the M1. Never saw anyone top off the clips in the rifle. M14 were issued about a month after my arrival but got to use the M1 again in the National Guard in 1966 to 68. Great riot control weapons.
“… and not get *BIT?”*
(My first instance of contact with these things had me almost get my index finger *CHEWED* by one of them. At the time (early to mid 1980s) I not only didn’t know about these things liking to bite the hand the hand which feeds them - but I had *NO* idea that I was dealing with M1s. There were several of them, all racked up with the actions locked back. I put my index finger down in the open “chasm” - and only something I do not understand prevented me from getting *BIT* when the bolt slammed home. I got my finger out *that* fast.)
Some information for you on the Springfield '03, saw you loading with individual rounds, in case if you didn't know, they were loaded with a "stripper clip" of 5 rounds, once the rounds were seated into the box magazine, the bolt was closed pushing the stripper clip out of the way, in competition shooting, some shooters would manually remove it on the first clip of 5, then the second would be ejected by the bolt to save fractions of seconds in rapid fire at 200 & 300 yards. I did enjoy uor video and thank you.
Yeah, I kind of flinched a little when you loaded that 8th round directly into the chamber. I'm glad you stuck that warning in your video.
As usual, an excellent technical explanation, with additional insight on what it might have been like to reload in a fire-fight.
What I've heard is that GI's did know they could reload the Garand in middle clip, and they prefered just firing the rest of the rounds until hear the ping
Would love a revisit on the demonstrated concept of the 22lr snubby
Same as any snubby, just less reliable ammo.
Snubby can hit at 50 yards for a proficient marksman, and also flex as the premier “get off me” gun due to the ability to make high pressure contact shots.
@@macriggland6526 And shoot in your pocket if it's hammerless. But sure, any revolver video from Chris is welcome. Love .22 LR.
Re: "A lot of M1 fans have been quick to bust the old myth that "you can't top off a Garand." It's not technically true, but for the GI in combat, would it have been a feasible option?"
Depends on the situation and the G.I. Like anything else, the more the soldier worked with the M-1 and its en-bloc loading system, the easier and smoother it would get. Modern users may find it difficult, but the soldiers of that time who used the M-1 as their rifle for months or even years on end, got so proficient with them that they could run as quickly as modern users swap magazines in and out of an AR15.
Years ago, I happened to see a competition shooting match, two-gun if memory serves, maybe three-gun. There were several older gentlemen taking part, and one of them was running an M-1 rifle as his long gun. He gave onlookers a real treat watching him run that thing like a sports car. Although the loading system on the Garand isn't considered state-of-the-art these days, his times were quite competitive and he scored well.
It is not myth but fact that G.I.s. had to work with partially-filled clips or with individual rounds. This most-often occurred when troops were lacking resupply and had to police up spare 30-06 rounds dropped or abandoned in the field, or from other sources such as the wounded or the dead. Unless it was linked .30-cal. machine-gun ammo, '06 usually came prepacked in bandoleers containing loaded 8-round en-bloc clips. But if the soldier was forced to use delinked MG ammo or loose 30-06 of any kind, he was manipulating it by hand. If he lacked enough shots to fill the clip, he'd insert a partly-filled one if that was all he had.
Accounts from men who used the M-1 rifle often note that the men were taught to do tactical or combat reloads. If there was a lull in the action, the rifleman was taught to eject or otherwise remove a partly-used clip and insert a fresh 8-round one in its place, and to pocket the loose rounds for use later.
My grandfathers brothers had a few things to say about their experiences in WWII.
I do not remember a single complaint about the Garand.
Thanks
No matter the flaws, still want one for the “ ping“ factor someday. It’s just a very cool historical rifle.
I let a young shooter (11 years old ) shoot my rifle one day. At first his grandfather thought he shouldn't have shot all 8 rounds. I just said " he needed the ping to say he shot an M-1". Grandfather grinned... he totally understood.
Re: garrand. Wouldn't it be better and faster to just eject the partially used clip into your hand and then replace with a fully loaded clip? You can deposit the used clip into another pocket and refill it when time allowed.
Tip to keep from hurting your thumb during loading hold down on the operating rod under the upper handguard. This will keep the bolt from going foreword.
you made an M1 video without recording the sound of shooting the last round. It's like a signature piece of audio for the M1!
I don't remember my 3 uncles, all in combat in WW 2 ever complaining about their M1 rifles in any way.
@ Ray Whitehead - In reference to your remark about your uncles, my wife had an uncle who died not too many years ago who was a Korean War combat veteran who served in the U.S. Army as an infantryman in 1950-1951 and fought against the Communist Chinese forces. He told me once in a conversation about the war, that if not for his trusty M-1, he never would have made it home alive. That's some pretty heavy praise, if you ask me. Glad your uncles made it home...
My Dad was in the NJ National Guard from '64-'84. They still carried the Garand. Even though he was in the artillery, it was his primary arm until he became a commissioned officer. Then, he was issued the M1 carbine. I don't know if they ever switched over to the M16 while he was still there.
Id personally recomend best way to figure the secrets of the M1 is to particpate in a reenactment (a good one not a farb fest) From many years of experience with the M1 of which i talked to countless wwii combat vets and listen to what they did and tried it in the field for reenacting what they said made sense.
I found reloading could be quickly done vs the "top off" as discribed. If I had to "top off" the m1, I could pop the clip out using the clip release and put a fresh one in. Taking the spent clip and loose ammo i could put it quickly in say a pocket. For re loading you could put clips on the pack suspenders or combat suspenders and pull a clip off and reload very quickly. Plus bandleers you could remove clips quickly and reload. As i discribed above is how the vets i meet would do a fast reload I personally never meet a vet that "topped off" a grand as was discribed here. Also depending when the vets where in combat, towards the end of the war more vets used the m1 ammo belt less, using a pistol belt, and used bandleers instead. Going out in full kit and doing a good tatical battle will give you the best insight on this.
@ Nate Jones - Re: "As i discribed above is how the vets i meet would do a fast reload I personally never meet a vet that "topped off" a grand as was discribed here."
There's a video up on You Tube by the song of a WW2 combat veteran, who served in the ETO during the war and was an infantryman armed with the M-1 Garand. The son is teaching the viewer tips and tricks for running the M-1 that his dad taught him. Including how to top up an en-bloc clip already inserted into the rifle. Some other things, too. Sorry I don't have a name for you, but it should be easy to find.
"Also depending when the vets where in combat, towards the end of the war more vets used the m1 ammo belt less, using a pistol belt, and used bandleers instead. Going out in full kit and doing a good tatical battle will give you the best insight on this."
Whenever possible, ground troops were staged prior to jumping off for an attack. If you have seen "Band of Brothers," the attack on Brecourt Manor shows this when Winters tells the men of Easy to "drop everything but weapons and ammo..." Many G.I.s learned to keep their cartridge belt as their back-up ammo supply in case things got dicey, and to work from bandoleers - since it was easy to toss several of them over one's shoulder.
The guys from that time - by which I mean WW2 and Korean War veterans, hated delinking .30-caliber MG ammo, which sometimes had to be done if prepacked 30-06 did make it forward to the lines in time. But of course that was better than running out entirely. It's a soldier's right to b*tch!
With the in block clip it's better just to empty it and put in a new one. They didn't want anybody bringing any ammo home put it all in the enemy .
Seems to me the full clip reload after going dry is the quickest-6 seconds to push another clip in....pretty fast. On par with bolt gun strippers If you ask me.
This also assumes that GIs just had a pocket with multiple loose cartridges jangling around, I would bet it was just way easier and quieter to keep only clips loaded.
I don't believe it would have been quieter, as far as stealth is concerned, but it would be... weird, to say the least, to deliberately carry loose ammo for the purpose of a top-off.
great video. I love learning more about the M1 Garand. one note- Grammar check may have missed it @2:35 your note on the bottom says (WHICH WOULD VERY, VERY BAD) I think it was supposed to be (WHICH WOULD BE VERY, VERY BAD) - I hate to be that guy (I really do- my big sister still corrects my grammar and I'm 40) but I had to say something. Love your videos Chris, one of the best no-nonsense channels out there.
Ain’t done it !
The ammo was issued preloaded into the clips. Why would a soldier be carrying loose rounds, or why wouldn't they just reload, which is faster?
Rounds were also issued on belts and loose. Clipped and bandoliered was preferred by the troops on the ground. But there was no guarantee you'd get those exact ones.
@ Random Dude - Re: "The ammo was issued preloaded into the clips. Why would a soldier be carrying loose rounds, or why wouldn't they just reload, which is faster?"
Standard operating procedure was to eject spent clips and reload using a full eight-round en-bloc clip taken either from one's cartridge belt or from a bandoleer. Many infantrymen carried several bandoleers slung crosswise across their shoulders, if they expected not to get resupplied for a while in the field. Topping off a partly-spent clip in the field in action was not done unless there was no alternative; the rifleman was taught instead to eject half-used ones and insert a fresh one, retaining the partly-used one in a pocket or pouch to refill later. The only time a GI would handle a lot of loose rounds would be if there was nothing else to use, or if delinked .30-cal. MG ammo was being used. If there was no resupply and the men were down to picking up and scavenging rounds from the dead, wounded or from the ground, then they'd be handling loose 30-06 ammo.
Best rifle in WW2 and Korea. Our targets were busy trying to reload their bolt action rifle with five rounds while eight 30 caliber rounds soiling their uniforms.
.30-06 was only issued in clips or belts. The likelihood of even having a few loose rounds is pretty low. If you have good logistic support and really need to be fast, you are probably best off just shooting that magazine empty. If you don't have good logistic support, you're probably best off ejecting and saving the partial clip. Both of these scenarios assume that you absolutely have to have the gun mostly full.
You might get 5 round stripper clips instead of 8 round enbloc clips. Springfield '03 were still used as sniper/second line roles. And the Johnson rifle had it on stripper clips. Loose cartridges would absolutely happen.
I used the M-1 in the Army National Guard reserves in 1963, before I went to Basic
Training in 1964, when we changed to the M-14! I did, partially catch my thumb once,
which blackened my thumbnail! I never understood why all WWII servicemen did not
carry the much lighter & easier to load M-1 Carbine, carried by officers?
My family member who served on WW 2 stated in combat if he felt he needed a full clip in the Garand would just quickly pop off the remain rounds and then put in a new clip. Fortunately he was never short of ammo so it was not an issue.
As a former Marine, it was a snap to load. Never got M1 thumb.
@6:18. If you listen close when he fires the last round you'll hear a "plink" sound. That is the empty clip being ejected. In WWII, the Germans and Japanese picked up on that and learned to listen for it. When they heard it, that meant the American was reloading. Good time to attack. The Americans caught on to this and came up with a trick. They would keep an empty clip and tap it on something during a battle. The enemy would hear that 'plink', jump out to attack, and....let's just say they got a nasty suprise.
If I were in that situation you were talking about where it was pressing at an enemy position, at the last piece of cover I would pull an extra clip out and keep it in my offhand while holding the rifle. Topping it off is too time-consuming. And it’s not practical to load from the belt in that situation.
@ Caleb C. - Many GIs carried a spare en-bloc clip or two either free in a pocket, or sometimes on the web sling of their M-1 rifles, for just the reason you mentioned. Ease of access, but also a last-ditch load or two if needed if their cartridge belt and bandoliers were empty.
I’m 81, haven’t messed with am M1 since the 60s. Guess what, last week I started wondering if a M1 could be topped off. Than along came your video…thanks.
I qualified with the M-1 a while back we were taught to top off the rifle when ever we had time. FYI
Great video. I didn't know this about topping off the M1. Thanks
It might be “fudd lore” but another risk of manually chambering the 8th round is it could damage your extractor. The rounds were designed to glide up into the extractor and then into the chamber. Again could be fudd lore but the armorers I’ve talked to as well as reenactors don’t suggest it. They show the process you discussed in Band of Brothers where Winters empties a guy’s Garand and manually loads one so the guy in the show doesn’t have ammo to shoot prisoners (yes I know it’s a movie but the manual of arms is shown).
Edit: Check out Jared A. Frame’s comment, the information I stated above is in fact fudd lore for the M1.
"If you drop a prisoner, the rest will jump you."
@@LuckyGunner A man of culture.
Hey Craig, I can say that the notion that single-loading an M1 will accelerate wear on your extractor is 100% false. If you observe the cycle of operations on the M1 you'll see that it is indeed a "push feed" system like a Remington 700, AR-15, AK-47 and others. What that means is that every time the gun is cycled, manually or automatically, the extractor snaps over the rim of the cartridge as it's chambering.
This myth stems from two things, one particular to the M1 and the other particular to control feed firearms. In a "control feed" system, the round feeds as you described, with the rim of the case slipping under the extractor.
Generally, older weapons that use a system like this have a long fixed extractor in which the entire extractor operates like a large leaf spring. The most commonly cited example of this is the internal extractor of USGI-style 1911s, which will be damaged over time if repeatedly dropped on a loaded chamber. The other is that of a Mauser "claw" extractor, which may experience deformation if repeatedly snapped over the rim of a case, although in my experience, will often cause a Mauser to just not chamber at all. Even in this case, it's not universal advice that single-loading in such a manner will cause damage to the extractor as there have been push-feed systems made that utilize a Mauser claw extractor, namely the original Ruger M77 (the Mk 2 and Hawkeye versions which came later would utilize a control feed system).
The other aspect that fuels this myth was covered in this video: the shooter is always advised to exercise more caution on the M1 than some other weapons as slamming the bolt forward on a chambered round does have a slight chance of causing a slam-fire.
In short: it varies from gun to gun whether dropping the bolt on a chambered round is bad for the extractor. In the case of the M1, it will not cause any wear to the extractor that wouldn't occur otherwise when the gun is cycled normally. If you're not sure with a particular gun, consult your operator's manual or otherwise educate yourself on the mechanics behind how the extractor interfaces with the cartridge.
@@JaredAF Thanks man, I’d rather know what’s right than keep repeating some false info. I’ll put an edit on my original comment to make sure people read your input.
Thanks again, it’s good knowing that’s not an issue with the M1 since my original post came from a position of not wanting to damage the pieces of history the M1s are. I know they were battle implements so they shouldn’t need to be babied but I don’t like putting stress/wear where it isn’t needed.
@@craigsteinkamp12 No problem. Your mindset around preserving firearms is admirable and one that I apply even to new firearms. In the vast majority of civilian contexts, even as a high-level competitor, we have the ability and the duty to treat these tools better than the soldier in the field ever could or can. That's not to say "baby" them or never use them, but we should try not to abuse them. Even something like just storing them properly can make a huge difference to the state of a firearm decades down the line, yet so many let them bounce around in drawers, or gloveboxes, or lean them up in a pile.
I'd never fire off remaining rounds. I'd eject the partial, pocket it and reload with a fresh clip if I didn't have time to top off.
If cover fire is part of the assault you would rip off the rounds. Otherwise reload retaining the partial clip. When using bounding overwatch movement it works really well.
My uncle had said that the Japanese & Chinese were trained to listen for the very distinctive sound when the clip was ejected because that meant that the Marines had to reload their rifles.
Due to the modern shooting practice of keeping your hand on the grip, the Garand is actually friendlier to a lefty.
Band Of Brothers episode "Crossroads" shows Damien Lewis aka Cpt.Winters unload then reload 1 round in back into a M1 before handing it back to Soldier Libgot.
Full M1 clips in the standard-issue cartridge belt are much easier to access than full clips in the cloth bandoliers, either way, you sometimes see two or three full clips wedged on the rifle sling for even better and quicker access. Three beautiful rifles, by the way.
Those cloth bandoliers are almost worthless. I'd rather carry clips in a fanny pack. Not saying I'd would, mind you, but those bandoliers are not easy to extract clips from.
Thank you for making this correction. I almost commented on the last video due to its incomplete information on reloading methods.
Good video as always! There is a great invention called the "Garand Thumb" available online which I installed in my Garand, less than 10 min. Not a permanent modification you can change back anytime, although I don't know why anyone would. Video of it is on TH-cam.
Useless
@@509Gman Have you ever put one in your Garand?
Bought my 1942 Garand and had my great uncle, Korea vet, to teach me all of his skills.
My father and uncle were in Korean War. My father said they did not conserve ammo. If they ran out of the stuff they got more from dead GI’s or the Private who brought supplies. That was how it was. Dad loved the Garand he had and a few times he fired it until the stock burned off. Than he would pick another one up off the battlefield. He said that Battlefields are littered with all manner of firearms, ammo, equipment, people, animals of all types, carts, destroyed tanks from both sides, you name it, it was there… well… except the 😅kitchen sink.
Right, my cousin was in the 'Bulge', he said this was the only time he ever topped off or had to save ammo', a fixed position thing, never in combat, you jam a full one in every time, there is no time for any fooling around. I was never taught any 'top off' procedure in Korean times. Lives mean a lot more than any partial ammo' clip, dump it.
Korean vet who taught me almost everything I know about guns said the myth that an m1 can’t be topped off is horsesh*t. They would grab a clip in their right hand between thumb and index finger. Hook the op rod with the bottom of their hand. Open the action and with their supporting hand hit the latch. The old clip would come out and they would just rotate their right hand and drop the rounds into the rifle. Whole process only takes 3 maybe 4 seconds. It’s not an ar but certainly faster than most people presume.
We are used to the "how fast can you do XYZ drill" mentality of modern shooting. Depending on your situation, I don't see why popping the partial mag out and putting a new one in is an issue. Not everything is a time sensitive issue. Doesn't quite matter if it takes 10 seconds to reload it and stow a partial mag if you've got 27 dudes around you backing you up.
I don't own a Garand nor have I ever been in combat but I would simply perform what would be close to a retention reload. Release the clip, stow it, insert full clip.
I thought you were gonna talk about the cartridge belt that the soldiers used in WWII and reloading when you're laying on the ground or something.
Our soldiers and marines did ok with it during WWII. The same in Korea and for awhile in Vietnam. It's no different than switching magazines. You develop your own way of doing it. Without smashing your thumb.
Just put the half empty clip in your pouch and slam a new loaded one in. The reload the partial clip when you get a lull. It’s not a big conundrum.