"That's not how the force works." The way Harrison Ford delivers that line in TFA, perfectly sums up the entire sequel trilogy. It's like he's telling the audience that this is absolutely ludicrous.
Agreed, I just wanted that scene to play over and over at every foul up the sequel trilogy. My biggest problem would be Leia flying back to the ship, I don't care how strong you are in the Force, but it doesn't save you from an absence of oxygen and heat.
THANK YOU! Her using force lightning because she’s related to palpatine is like me doing a quadruple spin kick in a high stress situation cuss my grandpa did taekwondo
I would say there might be a genetic impact on how powerful certain force powers are for users like how star killer was naturally gifted with powerful lightning and so was his clone but they didn't just know how to do it they discovered their affinity for it after they trained and unlocked the skill. star killer was trained by one of the most powerful dark side users since he was a child rey had zero instruction on these skills.
Admittedly there have been cases of this in both the old and new EUs. Some writers just felt that the fact that canon Anakin and Luke, some of the most powerful Force-sensitives ever, weren't able to do much more than basic ESP without training was no reason that they couldn't write characters who spontaneously manifested full-blown superpowers. Which spread into the Disney sequels.
I agree there was more background like dooku thought yoda was evil cuz he could do that dooku thought he was using the dark side which actually brilliant because it adds to the story
@@The_Moodi pretty easy with a basic understanding of English. Yeah his grammar sucks but whatever. The point is that people actually believed Yoda almost turned due to his ability to access hate and use dark force abilities. He was so powerful that he had "gone there and back" and was the only TRUE balance in the Force. He doesn't just redirect lightning, he straight up absorbs it. He has hatred for Dooku in that moment but is also so full of love and knowledge that he can remain balanced and focused. He can, at will, be the most powerful being among either art without losing himself to either one.
It was revealed by Daisy Ridley that there was no full story for Rey. Disney came up with the story as they moved a long with the movies. It’s probably one of the worst executed stories in Star Wars. Great video!
Yes it managed to work out ok with the original trilogy but this is why having the idea to copy the formula by having different people direct each movie and not having a planned story arc for the trilogy in place from the beginning was the worst idea possible. Especially when director number 2 thought subverting expectations by undermining what was set up and also by making old Luke Skywalker into the antithesis of what young Skywalker was in every way would make him seem clever rather than being a letdown that alienated the dedicated fans and derailed the coherence of the overall story the trilogy should have been telling.
I legitimately feel bad for Daisy; forced to play an unjustifiably overpowered '''''Jedi''''' with no personality and inevitably ends up on fans' hate list. I don't know much about her personally, but she seems like a nice woman. Just another actor who's hated for their movie roles.
That right there is my main gripe with the trilogy... There should have been a well thought out plan in place before they started. Say what you want about Lucas, but having a vision in mind was never a weakness of his.
@@MiKen877 sequels would still be successful lf Rian Johnson wasn't involved and single handedly defied all expectation and destroyed the easiest cash grab franchise ever. But I prefer the current state of Star Wars over what could have been without Rian Johnson : waves and waves of terrible sequels.
Rey accidentally using force lighting, a power that takes sith years to master, because of convenient genetics just shows how little Disney understand about Star Wars.
@@SpartanA239 I don't like using that term too often, but it definitely applies to Rey, unfortunately. It makes me sad the sequel trilogy was handled without care.
They even claim to ask George Lucas about things but its clear they take everything he says and just throws it out the window. I'm all for "Strong female characters" but someone that takes like 5 minutes to learn ability that takes Jedi/Sith years to learn and master is just lazy. Rey is like the very definition of a Mary Sue
Oh please. The prequels had such a bad misunderstanding of the lore they retconned most of what everyone said in the original trilogy. Leia said Obi Wan served her father in the clone wars. The only time in the Prequels they even interacted was when Bail was helping him. Obi Wan said Anakin followed him on some damn fool crusade. In the prequels he followed Qui Gon. Obi Wan said Yoda was his master. In the prequels it was Qui Gon. Retcon after pointless, stupid retcon.
@@levongevorgyan6789 From my knowledge, Yoda is a universal master, and Obi wan most likely worked with Bail at other points in the close wars, which I believe was shown in the animated series, the clone wars.
@@TeenWithACarrotIDK Qui Gon's existence is a retcon, so Yoda being made into the equivalent of an elementary school teacher was damage control. And it fell to an outside series, NOT the Prequels to try and fix Lucas messing up the lore of his own story. Pointing to the CLone Wars doesn't clear the Prequels themselves.
The Bible is truth. Please read at least Genesis Mathew and one book of the Bible you chose yourself. It is important that as you do you practice forgiveness. It’s an important part of what Jesus Christ taught that too many people forget. The process of genuinely meaning to forgive within your heart is the key that makes everything click. Start with your parents. They’re supposed to be the easiest, having loved you. There’s deep spiritual significance in that relationship to God. Looking inside to deal with your inner baggage and grow, that’s what shows the faith you need. Afterwards, break down before Jesus Christ and ask for forgiveness. Simply bare your soul in prayer. Take down those walls you’ve built up between you and God. Please, trust me. The Bible is truth. It’s just that you’ve got to take it seriously enough to do what Jesus Christ taught as an adult. Please, take your salvation seriously. Jesus Christ is the way truth and life.
It's funny, you covered every single thing I wanted to bring up, from inheriting abilities to bane killing his dad before training. I'd be fine if rey is a savant at force lightning, but they had to make her a natural in everyyyyyything, sheesh.
When it comes to Magic systems, it is important to stick to the internally consistent rules layer out by the story, especially when its on the softer side like the Force. If you dont, the entire thing can unwravel and any sense of suspension of disbelief goes out the window.
Do you have magic? As a Sorcerer, a Smith the most powerful kind of Sorcerer, and being the most powerful Smith in the world I didn't recognize my power when I was making my most powerful accomplishments. Raised in a powerful environment by powerful people my first exertion of power that shook the world for decades afterward happened when I was 16. I still have power but I'm directing it in light side ways rather than just because I can I do without thought of the consequence. Some of the forces I put out had un foreseen consequence. Popularizing nationalistic war for instance. I was just showing appreciation for our troops. The ways of magic are not linear. They are closer to quantum physics than to classical physics. Trying to direct my power in linear ways seems to backfire on me. Now I try to let the power flow on its own paths, and try to take the light path as much as I can see it.
In the Episode 3 novel, which I'm not even sure Disney still considers canon, it was touched on from Anakin's perspective what being potentially powerful in the Force was like without training. For him, it was just like have a strong intuition, being really "lucky" at guessing, and not knowing why. For Rey, it's basically just being better/more competent than everyone around her and having super powers she can spring even on accident. If Disney had made Episode 1 I can't help but think that, after child Rey had gotten done out-dog fighting hordes of vulture droid fighters on her own, having never piloted a fighter before, and destroyed the droid control ship, shutting down the attacking droid armies and saving Naboo, she would have flown down to surface in time to use the dying Qui Gon's lightsaber to save the defeated Obi Wan, who was about to be killed by Maul, by out-duling the Sith warrior, cutting him in half and force-lightning him down the bottomless pit.
Kinda like bad (most) self-insert/OC fanfictions where they have their character somehow interfere in two or three different fights that are happening at the same time in the show/book when it’s literally impossible for them to get to each fight in time. Just want their perfect character to save everyone and wreck shop, ruining the other character’s fights, emotional growth, and any stakes in the plot.
Haters really exaggerate just how good Rey is at everything. She fails at nearly everything she tries to do throughout the series and when she does win it's because she has a massive advantage already. Everyone who is remotely competent and fresh effortlessly beats her down.
@@immortalfrieza Not sure what movies you watched, dude, but all I saw was her instantly more competent than everyone around her at almost everything. I don't hate her, I'm just severely disappointed.
@@orangegalen Nearly every main protagonist of anything ever is way better at everything than everyone else around them barring maybe the main villain, that's how main protagonists work. If they aren't they quickly become that way in a fraction of the time it takes anyone else to become that good. It's why the main protagonist is the main protagonist. With the supporting characters role being to do the 1 or 2 things the main protagonist isn't amazingly good at. Everyone else is made barely competent to make the main protagonist be able to take center stage. Besides, it's not like Finn, Poe, Han, and Chewie aren't competent when they do things, they fill different niches.
When Darth Bane killed his father, it stated in the book that he “imagined a hand squeezing his fathers heart” so I believe that was him accidentally using a force crush just like how mace windu crushed Grivious’ chestplate just before revenge of the sith
@@LaLeakers24 Yeah true, jedi don't trust their emotions, while Sith use their emotions and it's in their code. "Peace is a lie, There is only PASSION Through Passion, I gain STRENGTH Through Strength, I gain POWER Through Power, I gain VICTORY Through Victory, My Chains Are Broken THE FORCE, shall free me"
When Luke first uses force pull to summon his lightsaber in the Empire novel, Obi-Wan's voice tells him "imagine the lightsaber in your hand" In other words, the force canonically works by imagining what you want it to do and concentrating
I knew after TLJ that episode 9 was going to be a disaster so I went in with expectations so low they were underground so when she shot the lightning I died laughing in the theater lol
The Bible is truth. Please read at least Genesis Mathew and one book of the Bible you chose yourself. It is important that as you do you practice forgiveness. It’s an important part of what Jesus Christ taught that too many people forget. The process of genuinely meaning to forgive within your heart is the key that makes everything click. Start with your parents. They’re supposed to be the easiest, having loved you. There’s deep spiritual significance in that relationship to God. Looking inside to deal with your inner baggage and grow, that’s what shows the faith you need. Afterwards, break down before Jesus Christ and ask for forgiveness. Simply bare your soul in prayer. Take down those walls you’ve built up between you and God. Please, trust me. The Bible is truth. It’s just that you’ve got to take it seriously enough to do what Jesus Christ taught as an adult. Please, take your salvation seriously. Jesus Christ is the way truth and life.
Disney needs George Lucas' input & guidance to do Star Wars content in order not to keep screwing it up, but I doubt they will seek the help as they believe they "know" what they're doing; seriously Disney, take it from the fans...you need George's vision & you do not have it. At this rate; you're going to lose more fans than your "fleshed-out cartoon villains" can handle. You would be wiser to admit you do not have George's vision & get help from the man before it is too late & you bring his vision to an unhappy end. Admitting a mistake is the mature thing to do. So, how mature are you? What's your character? Are you mature enough to admit you need help; swallow your pride? The world is watching...sigh...I for one do not want to see Star Wars crash & burn. Best wishes all
This is what grinds my gears with how the Force is portrayed in the sequels, I understand certain individuals are really gifted in the Force but certain abilities require some extensive training, take Yoda's ability to absorb Force lightning, if we go by the logic of the sequels then every Force user is capable of absorbing Force lightning right off the bat.
Luke was as gifted as it comes with the force, it took him being introduced to the force by Obi-Wan, all the events of a new hope and then the 2 years (I think) between ANH and Empire for him to JUST about pull his lightsaber to him as the Wampa approached. Cut to Rey and all she had to do was touch the lightsaber in Maz’s basement and like the same day was able to out pull Kylo to retrieve the lightsaber, because ‘strong female characters’
@@Ronnie-mx1wu the motivation of the writers was “strong female character”. No one denies it would be equally ridiculous to find a male Rey doing this exact thing but Rey existing as a whole was brought about for “female representation”. So yes it is because “strong female character” because that is what sparked this madness of a sequel in the first place.
@@Ronnie-mx1wu no absolutely, but Kathleen Kennedy seemed to think that having strong female characters meant wearing a ‘the force is female’ t shirt and not actually bothering have the writers do any character development
This is why I honestly thought that it would have been better if Rey was a fully trained Sith who'd had her memory wiped so she could get close to Luke to kill him and the Resistance, with the final choice for her to retake her memories and rejoin Palpatine or choose her new identity and friends.
The Bible is truth. Please read at least Genesis Mathew and one book of the Bible you chose yourself. It is important that as you do you practice forgiveness. It’s an important part of what Jesus Christ taught that too many people forget. The process of genuinely meaning to forgive within your heart is the key that makes everything click. Start with your parents. They’re supposed to be the easiest, having loved you. There’s deep spiritual significance in that relationship to God. Looking inside to deal with your inner baggage and grow, that’s what shows the faith you need. Afterwards, break down before Jesus Christ and ask for forgiveness. Simply bare your soul in prayer. Take down those walls you’ve built up between you and God. Please, trust me. The Bible is truth. It’s just that you’ve got to take it seriously enough to do what Jesus Christ taught as an adult. Please, take your salvation seriously. Jesus Christ is the way truth and life.
The writers for Disney don't care about the rules, or Star Wars established canon, they only care about their agenda, and that was for Rey to be the "bestest evar".
Yeah, which again goes against the previous movies, as Anakin was supposed to be the "bestest evar" as his father is practically the force, having an insane amount of midichlorians. Everyone calls Obi Wan space jesus because of his looks, but Anakin is actually the space jesus. He is the son of the force, destined to do the impossible. And then a couple of decades later, nevermind it was all for nothing, Palpatin is back and his granddaugther is the forces new favorite :/
The fact they gave Rey Han's ship, his wookie, Anakin's lightsaber, Luke's X-Wing, the Skywalker name, and let Rey defeat the Sith once and for all. That didn't make you pissed off? But her shooting lighting from her finger tips was the final straw for you?
Oh no I hated the whole trilogy but I’m a lore freak and when I saw her use force lightning just upset my lore loving nature to it very core even more then the other two Disney Star Wars movies fucked up Star Wars lore
@@dryfox11 yeah. To be honest, I thought Rey and Finn were okay characters, up until Finn just suddenly knows how to use a lightsaber and Rey can use the force.
Well you could tell he didn't hate them at all. This guy's theory is just incorrect. He didn't hate everyone he just thought he was doing the right thing.
Nothing Dooku ever does is out of hatred for the Jedi or the Republic. Dooku found out about the clone army, investigated it, realized a Sith Lord stole the identity of a Jedi Master to order it and put the pieces together that the current Dark Lord of the Sith was actually in charge of the government. He then starts a civil war/rebellion against the powers that be to try and force the Sith to reveal themselves as a whole and to try and save the Jedi from their own complacency. Dooku wanted to save the galaxy, save the Jedi and save the Republic and if Obi-Wan had joined Dooku on Geonosis it is very possible the two of them could have averted the Galactic Empire, the fall of Anakin and have ousted Palpatine.
@@TheLikenessOfNormal I feel like his offer to Obi-Wan was just an attempt at a power grab for his own benefit rather than The Republic. Dooku had ample knowledge and power to expose The Sith to the whole galaxy and stop Palpatine any time he wanted, not just to Obi-Wan that one time on Geonosis. He fully enabled the war to distract the Jedi and weaken The Republic so it could more quickly run into the open arms of Palpatine's tyranny, tyranny that he fully believed he'd have his own place in up until the very last moments of his life.
Disney was trying to internalize the idea of adding Mutants into the MCU around this time and so they got confused about the difference between the Force (a learned skill that requires innate potential) and Mutant powers (which just manifest, often without the Mutant understanding what they are doing).
A multi-billion dollar company got confused? I'm not disputing they did what they did, but I'm going to have to argue the point on your reasoning. A lot of people just write this off as bad business, poor decision making, they just don't understand.. y'all are gullible. You can draw your own conclusions on what the reasons might be, but the fact of the matter is they're doing this shit on purpose. I think that at least is pretty undeniable, at this point, they've been consistent about it so, as with lightning from Rey, I don't exactly buy it being accidental.
@@draconianemanations2785 - The challenge with written posts is that one's sarcasm is not conveyed as it would be when speaking the same words verbally.
I think it could have been way better. Have the ship's engines cut, Rey starts pulling it back..But then she feels it start to fall, sputtering and smoking and she struggles to keep it from falling..Then right before it would hit the ground....BOOM.
@@samtheweebo It's not like Rey hadn't ripped something apart with The Force unintentionally before. The whole thing was nothing more than hokey foreshadowing of her lineage... that Rey shouldn't have had in the first place.
Everything about Rey was infuriating as she had no flaws whatsoever. She was an expert scavenger, expert staff wielder, expert mechanic, expert pilot, expert gunner, defeated Kylo Ren the first time she ever held a lightsaber, expert Force user after just thinking about random Force powers (Jedi mind trick on the Stormtrooper). Even though she spent all her life on a desert planet she knew how to swim somehow, defeated a Jedi Grandmaster without effort (Luke tripped??! WTF!), levitate an entire rock-face worth of boulders which was a feat that only Jedi Masters could pull off, conveniently shoots lightning without any training or reason, had some wierd connection with Kylo where they could even share physical items with eachother. It just made no sense at all. She was like the ultimate Mary Sue with instant Jedi and Sith Force abilities. There also just wasn't any "Hero's Journey" at all. Everything was just handed to her on a silver platter and she could overcome everything without any effort whatsoever. Frankly, it was insulting to watch and clearly showed that Disney had zero understanding of Star Wars and were just treating it as Rey's personal playground. Meanwhile Luke was just a farmboy who saw his whole world fall apart (and his aunt and uncle lying outside burnt to a crisp), got his ass handed to him multiple times until he started training, couldn't even lift his X-Wing out of the swamp, then got his ass handed to him again and again until eventually he proved victorious in the end (after receiving lots of training). That was a proper "Hero's Journey" while Rey just skated on by with zero effort.
Especially infuriating because Luke was the son of Anakin a fulcrum of the force and by George Lucas' own admission "The most powerful Jedi ever, PERIOD!" His exact words.
@@notsure8513 Yeah, as such I simply view the Disney trilogy as non-canon, regardless of what Disney claims, and see them purely as a casestudy on how NOT to make movies.
The only thing wrong with your claims, is that Rey beat Luke. Luke clearly had the upper hand, and only backed off once Rey pulled out a lightsaber, and even then he could have beat her. Everything else you said is 100% right though
There was literally no thought in that scene, just "I bet it would look cool if Rey shot some lightning lol" This video is more informed than that whole movie
A story where genetics defines power level should be a social commentary on why that is a terrible idea and should absolutely not celebrate a main character for being genetically better… Ray’s existence deemphasizes the amount of effort force wielders actually put into their training.
But the only people in Star Wars that have ever been of any worth are main cast members and their descendants. This came about as far back as the OT having Luke being Vader's son and thus the "last hope" a thing. Star Wars has been a tale of bluebloods fighting each other while everybody else can barely help from the sidelines if they can do anything at all. What made Rey interesting was the fact that she was a total nobody and the child of nobodies, which made her HAHA nope she's the grandchild of Palpatine.
@@immortalfrieza Who were Yoda, Mace Windu, Obi-Wan and all of the other Jedi in the old republic related to? Luke and Leia were just important because they were the only people around that were strong in the force to beat Vader and Sidious. Genetics help but training should be at least 80% to 90% of the factor. Luke could barely get his lightsaber out of the snow with the little training he got from Obi-Wan.
@@immortalfrieza Some of the strongest Jedi with no connection to the main character's bloodline or some other random bloodline "of power": Ahsoka, Shaak Ti, Plo Koon, Mace Windu. The hyper focus of the main characters made it seem like bloodline was a thing but it just showed their stories, not that it was the only thing that made a strong Jedi/Sith.
Yeah just look at obi-wan, he had a relatively medium to low midchlorian count of around 11,000-13,000, but because he worked and trained hard he became one of the best duelists in the universe and arguably the best soresu practitioner of all time.
To be AS GENEROUS AS POSSIBLE, it was most likely just to foreshadow her connection to Palpatine. If I recall correctly, at this point in the film, she wasn't aware of it yet. Even Lego Star Wars the Skywalker Saga pokes fun at this, as during the cutscene when Rey finds out she's a Palpatine, she's suddenly holding the Force Lightning Lego pieces that Palpatine uses in his playsets IRL. I could respect the idea that it MIGHT represent the untapped Dark Side potential that is dormant within her, due to her lineage, but, again, HOW it happened doesn't make sense. It would have actually made a lot more sense if she cast the bolt at Kylo, as a means to get him to stop, or better yet, she Force Pulled the ship so hard it came apart, or she accidentally slammed it into the ground and the crash blew it up. That would show her rage being a potential problem, instead of them just brushing this off in the very next scene like they did in the movie.
agreed. there were better ways that made more sense to demonstrate a wild burst of dark side power in a frustrating moment of conflict. This was a "We still have CGI money" moment.
From a story beat perspective, it’s actually one of the things I thought the film did right. Strong leanings toward the dark side is probably the best way to give a minimally trained prodigy a reasonably compelling arc. But the execution was poor for at least two reasons: one is that as the video suggests, it’s done by breaking the universe’s rules. Your suggestions would help solve this one. The other problem is that they didn’t fully commit - there were ultimately no consequences, and Rey never has to address this problem as fully as I’d like - they leaned more into the “who am I” conflict instead. I get that they probably didn’t want to kill Chewy, but they could put some unnamed Resistance members on the ship, and address that fact later. Something to make Rey’s error mean something for longer than two minutes and demand some sort of character transformation.
Using the force lightning to stun or stop someone would be considered emerald lightning or electric judgement which only really powerful Jedi like Plo Koon or even Luke Skywalker had. It's possible that at some point in time she could have acquired those powers after she learned who she was but I agree that Disney doesn't know how best to handle the Star Wars franchise. They are running it the best they can but since they didn't create it they don't know how to really run it right. It's interesting to note that Rian Johnson in The Last Jedi bonus features said that the Force is not a superpower. He might of understood that a little more than JJ Abrams did. He didn't understand that at all and that shows in that last film. While those films are good they aren't anything like how George Lucas would have done them. I only wonder what he must think about how Disney is running his franchise now.
@@rogermcbadlad2812 Finn as well, even his actor said they just used him as a token black guy, if they had teamed up and been the force less but knowledgeable duo, could’ve actually had some cool events, but this is what we got…
@@dryfox11 I always thought Finn was going to be the force user and Rey was the saber user They are terrible without each other but together they would be a team to fear
Fun fact, Force Judgement can also rejuvenate you if you are deemed just by the Force. So if Plo Koon cast it on Ashoka for example mid-combat, she would feel more energy come to her, and her existing wounds (if present) would lessen in severity.
Listening to your description on how Force Lightning works, the only innate Force Lightning I accept is with the Sith Inquisitor in The Old Republic... mostly because it's funny how many conversations give you the option to just shock someone or something as a solution.
One of the funniest is the inquisitor just pointing their index to the side without even looking and shooting just a small amount for like a second towards some mother fucker off screen.
@@bobbywashington1975 Luke was taught by both masters Obi-Wan Kenobi and Yoda. He learned the basics such as force pull, push, and letting the force guide him during the time of a war that took years.The first time he dueled Darth Vader, he lost and it humbled him. Every time Rey dueled Kylo Ren, she always won and never learned anything from it.
@@theanominous so your ok with him spending about 30 minutes of screen time with obi wan and then out maneuvering Vader and blowing up the death star? Ok whatever
@@bobbywashington1975 funny since that is still 30 minutes more training than Rey ever had, maybe you should stop picking instances that favors your view while ignoring the many others that discredits it, I swear Disney Star Wars fans are some of the most ignorant people, Luke using force pull because he can use force push is not a big a stretch as Rey using force lightning/healing and mind probe/domination without anyone to have learned her how to, she is the definition of a Mary Sue, Luke had losses and Rey does not.
I love this video format much better than the others. There’s no talking in circles to artificially lengthen the video or cutting off ends of words due to splicing sentences together through editing. I also enjoy hearing what you personally think and feel about Star Wars. Please make more videos about what is your personal cannon in Star Wars and what you would like to see in the future. Maybe writing your own stories with other content creators, especially an unknown regions story since you have made so much content about that topic already, it’s an area that Star Wars cannon never really touches.
I mean, in the first episode of the sequel trilogy Rey managed to learn force mind domination during an interrogation and became so adept that not only a) she was able to fend off someone with much more experience with the force. B) able to use the skill well enough to force a stormtrooper to release her. So, the idea that Rey can accidentally use force lightning due to genetics is just par for the corse with this character.
I never really thought about it much I just thought that was dumb she just did it out of nowhere. This was a well done video going in depth about force lightning and the dark side. I knew you needed training and was a high level force ability, also you had to be a dark side user
I'm pretty sure in the Darth Bane novels it's stated there are more than three Sith Academies, but the primary ones were on Umbara the Shadow Assassins, and Korriban where the trained the best of the best, the supposed future Sith Masters. (there was a third one in the top tiers but I forget the planet it was one. I wanna say it was on Dathomir where the Marauders came from.) Great video though. It really does seem they were just doing whatever they wanted when it came to the sequels.
I was more irate about the end of the last jedi with all the levitating rocks and Rey stopping concentrating on them to hug Finn and the rocks just stayed in place, I swear she broke the force on that one.
Not really they can do that when you attain mastery of something concentration no longer needed. The one that broke the force was Ben actually stopping a blast in mid air for few dozen seconds effortlessly. If he was strong enough for that he should be strong enough to the story he protrayed making him look incompetent through and through. Not even previous Sith did that and if they could they wouldve stopped any shots hell they couldve just deflected it with the force too why need lightsabers.
@Steven Martinez Garcia so we agreed that Disney essentially broke the force. And I don't know Rey's rocks had to have weighted more then a water logged x-wing and I don't see Yoda stop his concentration or in attack of the clones when dooku was getting away and he was stuck holding up that big plier worst he could even change its trajectory to hit dooku's escape craft
Basically that a good example of what happens when the wrighters don't know about the world they are expanding on! They just got Darth Sidius as reference and were like "He does that easily so his grandaughter should be doing it too" completely disregarding what goes behind it.
Force Lightning isn’t like other abilities that you might use / discover accidentally. Like a wild Force Wave or Storm because of your emotions or pain suddenly overwhelmed you. Or Force Push or Pull that you employed so absentmindedly that you don’t even remember how you did it. Or like projecting your own emotions and thoughts at others because they are so strong to hold back. Force Lightning is a power that is very specific. One that you need to know is even possible before you can attempt it. And you got to draw that energy from somewhere least it starts to consume you. And even then you need practice as to direct the bolts, otherwise it will either just disperse around you or find the nearest ground. That said, there are different forms of Force Lightning. You don’t have to pour your anger and hate into it unless the your point in using it is destructive.
Even if she could use it by accident, it blowing the ship up is ridiculous on its own. I guess we are supposed to believe that Yoda and Luke and everyone else hat has been hit by Force Lightning, are more durable than space ships.
There is also the factor that unless Rey was angry at the ship that she felt had Chewbacca the activation of force lightning was illogical. As you said, one has to have absolutely hatred from the individual, so who did Rey hate absolutely at that time, the pilot of that ship or Kylo? If it was Kylo then I'd understand if she activated it AT HIM but she didn't
I like the idea that the dark side is something that you give in too accept rather than just jumping into by accident. It really helps with the devil’s bargain that the dark side is.
if that's the case then it would be more plausible that kylo ren would learn force lightning. kylo was trained by snoke in the comics and was shocked during TLJ it would make more sense that way. but you would have to develop kylo ren as a whole and make him train for it.
@@pioxels1213 I swear: That would be a really good title for one of the (definitely) upcoming tell-all tomes about the fuckery that went on over at Lucasfilm Ltd., between 2012-2023 (when, hopefully, Kennedy and some of her crew depart from the company).
@@anthonyyoutubefan7567 oh you're hopeful man... but hey, my pipe dream is for Disney to start lose so much money on each new Star Wars project that they actually consider retconning everything they've done since purchasing or selling it off to someone else can. That's the only way we're ever going to get more Star Wars. Maybe. If not, the legends and the first two trilogies are really all we have imho. Funny thing is, I don't think that's much of a pipe dream. Not if things keep going the way they're going. In fact given the direction, maybe you're not too hopeful, but I thought that last time Kennedy's contract was up and they renewed it anyways so, I'm feeling pretty pessimistic that she'll be gone by 2023. Never forget, Solo lost money, and if you actually dig into the financials of each film, you might be surprised at how little they're making, especially when you account for the marketing costs associated with each movie. They play with the numbers, they often leave out how much they spent in marketing, so you kind of have to deconstruct all of that mess yourself if you want to research it, they're not doing as well as they want everyone to believe though.
@@draconianemanations2785 The thought (esp. by Hollywood insiders) has been that, by Fall 2023, after the release of Indy 5, she'll take a bow and leave (supposedly on a high note) before her contract is up...this way she won't have to renegotiate a renewal, since she'll be over 70 years old. The fact that Michelle Rejwan (a recommended hire from JJ Abrams, around the time of TROS) just stepped down from her Senior V.P. position for Lucasfilm Ltd., when many suspected/feared that she might be next in line to take over the company, speaks volumes over how much now is in flux over there, and how it's being reevaluated for the long haul. By 2024, not many of Kennedy's hires will most likely have long-standing homes at Lucasfilm Ltd. Some of her most significant ones (like Kiri Hart, Former Head of The Lucasfilm Story Group) have already long since departed, around the time of the ultimate grand failure of The ST. We have hope...
I think the writers should have shown Rei using some basic force powers to help her scavenge. Maybe a hard to reach part flys into her hand when she is struggling to extend the last few inches. The problem I have with Rei is she went from not even believing the jedi exist to becoming a Jedi/Sith master in less than 6 months. It's all just so unreasonable based on the universe it is happening in.
The Force is the Force. Light Side and Dark Side is determined by which powers are considered harmful and which are beneficial. We saw lightning come from Yoda's fingertips too. So it's not a matter of what they did, it's a matter of what they used it for. I'd like to see more of the Gray Force Users.
Despite the fact that I love the idea of "the force" as something of perspective, things indicate that it is not that way, the mere existence of the son, the daughter and the father, who exist both in legends and current line confirm this, in addition, luke himself says it in his academy, there is no multicolored force, there is the light side and the dark side that acts like a drug that pretends that you can overcome yourself but ends up corrupting you
I actually like this video’s purpose more than your others. While I love learning about the vast lore of Star Wars, there aren’t enough people who have this level of Star Wars knowledge looking critically at the films.
The exact issue here, is that if there was anything established in the Star Wars Expanded Universe (novels/etc), that was all purged once Disney took over, indicating none of it would be canon.
She also ‘accidentally’ used force heal not long before, something that takes alot of lightside force power, and she just did it on a whim. When Count Dooku says ‘I’ve become more powerful than any Jedi and unleashed his force lightning’ the retort now is, nah, that can be done by random untrained force sensitives too, they just need ‘special genes’.
@@quancanon uh no, we are saying that ‘natural talent’ is bs. Literally read the end of my comment saying you lol away any skills or training for her cause ‘lol special genes’. Its crappy ass writing for a character that deserved better.
@@jonsmith5058 I mean yea your right I kinda of wish she was a with turned jedi. That story line would’ve been better for her to be so powerful. She could’ve been a with that had years of training but didn’t came out of the darkness or something along those lines.
Another example of Rey being the classic Mary Sue. In the movies, as opposed to Legends, everyone capable of Force Lightning is directly tied to Palpatine, such as his students Dooku and, apparently, Snoke. This would definitely make it easier for Rey to learn, but Wave is %100 right that no one could figure it out on their own. The Sequels tried to say that Force Lightning is a Pokemon Evolution of Force Pull, which shows again how the writers of these movies failed to understand the setting they'd been allowed to play with. It's the Holdo Maneuver all over again.
In practically every continuity it’s impossible to “accidentally” use any force ability because every single one requires training and knowledge of it, With the exception of telekinesis which is the most basic of all force abilities.
It sounds a lot like the cruciatis curse from Harry Potter. Even trying to use it, because he didn't really understand what he was trying to do nor actually wish that sort of harm on anyone, Harry was simply incapable of using the curse on Bellatrix even though he struck out with hatred.
This is one of the many issues I have with Rey in general. It's all natural ability for her, she doesn't have to practice, learn, or grow, she just stumbles across her natural ability. It's a fantasy self-insert for people who don't want to put effort into earning talent. And if she had this natural ability she should have discovered it long before the trilogy took place, it's like she conveniently came across the force during the events of the movies. They should have made her struggle to figure it out similar to Luke Skywalker so her ability felt earned and organic and explains why she didn't know about it before.
Little Anie didn't need training to have precognition to seem he has impossibly fast reflexes for pod racing, and was enough of a mechanic to be a natural builder of his own pod racer, and C3PO.
Force Lightning is somewhat like the Cruciatus Curse in the Harry Potter universe in that you have to "mean it" and you have to experience the pain yourself.
I 100% agree. Even fiction should have rules, and fantasy worlds that break their own rules break the immersion. I hate it when you point out a continuity error or an in-universve rule being broken, and someone responds with "This universe has [insert fiction trope: dragons, lightsabers, wizards, sci-fi technology], and you think it's unrealistic that someone stranded in the dessert for 2 years didn't lose any weight despite eating?" Yes. I am not concerned with the dragons, because in this universe, dragons exist. But my immersion is completely ruined if you try to convince me that starvation is a serious issue and that being stranded someone will get you killed, all while someone can go with little to no food for years and not reflect it in his appearance.
Well put. Some abilities like THIS are more aimed an intentional vs setting off some kinda Force Bomb. Even IF she wanted to HATE Kylo to death in that scene.. everyone KNEW Ben WASN'T on the transport.. she didn't hate or even see anyone on the transport in question an definitely didn't Chewie. Whom she ALSO shoulda been able to sense perhaps without trying if he truly had been on that transport an died like first thought..this always seemed odd to me too. If THIS was gonna be just shown coming outta the blue she shoulda "accidentally" zapped anyone during some sorta fight after being a bit familiar with the Force an at all how it works
To be real I think dooku could always be classified as a dark jedi, he always wanted to push against the orders and explore every facet of the force which is something that they never wanted
The character’s weren’t terrible some of them would have been really cool to see more of how they were used is the problem they were just thrown in to show how strong Rey is
It only takes a brief glance at the lore to realize (or at least recognize) that force lightning is one of the most complicated of the force powers that could be used mid-combat, less like a superpower and more like a hex or spell. There are a few instances of unintentional uses of force powers... Mainly those that are telekinetic in nature, and usually by young children letting their emotions get the better of them
I love your channel so much. The lack of love in depth and continuity of so much lore, that made me fall in love with the series, turned me away from Star Wars after the Disney acquisition. Your respect of it, explanations and bringing people back together made me subscribe to this channel.
Force Judgement sounds a LOT like the power Starkiller used to defeat Palpatine in TFU novel (not sure if he does this in the game), except it's described as being more like golden flames...Is this a variant or does it have its own designation?
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Just started the video, and I know very little about Star Wars lore. I'm honestly just marveling at how weird it is that she accidentally sends out (or "pushes out") lightning, while trying to PULL a ship. It seems much more logical that it's something she'd accidentally do when trying to push something. If anything, she should've accidentally started ripping it apart or crushing it.
What annoys me the most is that there is clearly a decent idea underneath the mess that is the sequels. Rey is a powerful force user who wants to do good, but is filled with passion. Luke, having read the ancient jedi texts has been thought that passion is dangerous, and scenes like the one in focus here are clearly made with this thought in mind. But instead of this conflict being at the core, it instead gets dissolved so completely until all that is left is "Rey is angry and Luke is scared". Its like, the originals showed Luke defeat Vader through his love for Leia, but also showed him defeat Palpatine by loving his father, and importantly showed that Vader loving his son was able to bring him back to the light. Already clearly stating that there is no clear segregation between the light and dark side. Then the prequels show Anakin's love for Padme lead to him being corrupted, all while Obi-Wan's love for Anakin blinds him to what he is turning into. Showing that if not carefully controlled, too much passion can blind the light side, and can lead even the kindest souls to the dark side. And then comes the sequels. The story it wants to tell seems to be that passion is dangerous, but one cannot hide from it. But its complete lack of understanding of the force just ruins any chance of it managing to tell that story. So instead we get the scene in question, where the intent might have been to show that "passion=dangerous", but it just fails at it. There is a story deep underneath the one we got that is in line with the themes of the previous movies. But ironically lack of passion for the project led to it just not working.
Thry should have just given rey a different colour of lightning, maybe like plo kloons yellow, it would work. It was also an accidental discharge but based in the light. Or they could have given rey pink lightning and instead of a *Fatality* , its called *Friendship*
When I saw this scene in theatres, I just sighed and slumped further into my chair. It was just frustrating to see another misunderstanding, or rejection of care, of how the Force works at all. A good point is bringing up the canon novel Jedi Lost, if Dooku was completely retconned to of used Electric Judgement then that would be rather cool, especially the idea of it being a slippery slope as it was in Legends. It would be nice if that ability returned to canon.
Yes, I do believe intent matters to the Force, always. At times, an ability like that can spring put without any training, but there are certain factors that must be in play. Namely, a directed intent, an elevated emotional state, and a certain affinity to the Force itself.
Someone forgot to tell Stupendous Wave that Rey didn't "accidentally" use force lightning. Rey can do anything. She requires no master for tutoring. Even the telekinesis, she achieved that all on her own. She is the greatest Jedi and Sith combined, of all time.
If you can't accidentally use force lightning and you have to be hit by it before using it then... Doesn't that mean that it would have been impossible for it to be discovered in the first place? Think about it, the first person to ever use it wouldn't have anyone who could teach them how to use it, they wouldn't know how to use it and they wouldn't have anyone who could use it on them. Are you really gonna pick apart this scene without recognising the MAJOR plot hole in your argument?
It makes total sense. Every episode elaborates on some aspect of The Force so there is no fixed standard that has to be adhered to. Rey learns Kylo fears he will never be as strong as Darth Vader after Kylo probes her mind and she senses his mind back because they happen, coincidentally, to be a part of a rare Force Dyad pairing. This Force Dyad is stronger than a familial Force Bond and it allows her to form a Force Connection with Kylo across interstellar distances. Kylo's glove becomes wet with Ahch-To rain which establishes that their Force Connection is capable of some form of matter transference. This then accounts for the Praetorian Guard's missing blade in Snoke's Throne Room fight as it is obvious that Rey used Force Teleportation to get rid of it rather than have her abdomen sliced open. Rey also performs a Force Kick similar to that done by Luke on the sand barge in _Return of the Jedi._ We see Snoke torture Kylo with Force Lightning, so he has been exposed to it, prior to Kylo's interrogation of her, where she absorbs his training from Luke and Snoke and then compels the guard to release her with Force Persuasion, an ability she got from Kylo's mind meeting with her own when they were part of a race Force Dyad pair. Rey's hatred for Kylo triggers the Force Lightning, and makes her character less of a Mary Sue as it is more credible that without training she would not be in full control over all her many Force Dyad absorbed abilities. Presumably, Rey learns to Force Heal from one of the sacred texts she stole from the first Jedi Temple, which explains why neither Anakin or Palpatine knew how to help Padmé as those texts had been left behind by the Jedi as they colonised the galaxy and created a new temple on Coruscant, forgetting much of their ancient mastery of The Force in the process. So, there is no inconsistency where Anakin should have been able to heal Padmé if Rey can heal a snake. Also, when Rey is dead Kylo would not have been able to Force Heal her back to life if he wasn't joined through their Force Dyad so he could also learn her abilities she had mastered whilst on the jungle world of Ajan Kloss for a year training under Jedi Leia Organa. When you have magic in a story and allow it to be elaborated episode-by-episode you can end up with ridiculousness. Why does Obi-Wan Kenobi use Force Sprint in _The Phantom Menace_ some of the time, but not when he needs to get to Qui-Gon Jinn to help him in his fight with Darth Maul? Why is he normal speed? Why have him ever be seen using Force Sprint earlier as it just opens a plot hole later that needs a good explanation why Obi-Wan didn't Force Sprint there? Why doesn't Obi-Wan Kenobi use Force Sprint in his fight with Darth Vader in _A New Hope,_ after all it has been established he can do it in earlier episodes, and you can't even invoke the stamina argument as an excuse, which some people employ to forgive Kenobi for being "too tired" to Sprint towards Maul? Then you look at the criticism of the Holdo manoeuvre, and bear in mind that Rian Johnson moved house to be closer to the Lucasfilm Story Group so he could ask them lore questions like this and they said there was nothing wrong with him having Amilyn do this. Well, there isn't. It would work. There isn't a problem, or rather the problem that exists has always been there. The tech of hyperspace travel has always been open to be weaponised from the outset, with no work being done to establish why not. At least in Frank Herbert's _DUNE_ where Lucas stole a lot of his ideas it is made clear that nuclear weapons are banned, AIs are banned, and people fight with close quarter bladed weapons because firing lasers at personal shields causes massive explosions. This is all arguably stupid: the Harkonnens are evil enough to use atomics, the Atredies may have anticipated the Harkonnen strategies if they had secretly kept an AI around to advise them rather than a useless Mentat, why aren't people throwing weighted nets over those in personal shields, or Columbian bolas? The thing is an effort is made to explain why not, which helps the fiction. None was made with Hyperspace, as it was just a means to an end to get the story from planet to planet. The truth is the audience agree to suspend their disbelief in silly magic and preposterous physics in order to have a fun romantic adventure which echoes the structure of the Hero's Journey common to many ancient myths and legends. It is a synthetic monomyth. It isn't science fiction.
That’s a lot of ex post facto reasoning you got there. Using force teleport to explain away the disappearing dagger like it was all part of the plan is as ridiculous as coming up with a whole story to explain the stormtrooper bonking his head on accident in A New Hope. It’s just a continuity error, and pretending it’s otherwise is delusional.
@@Zarastro54 The Stormtrooper bonking his head and Luke Skywalker's hair being dry after escaping the trash compactor are not related to the Force. Rey ought to be dirtier on the muddy jungle planet of Ajan Kloss than she was on the arid desert planet of Jakku, but that can be explained by her increasing mastery of the Force as Rey clothes get ever more white as the series goes on as she is using Force Push to expel the dirt particles from her clothes. Luke has yet to meet Yoda in _A New Hope_ so he can't have used the Force to expel water from his hair in the short amount of time he is offscreen following on from when he was underwater in the trash compactor. Stormtroopers are consistently incompetent, not merely missing Luke when he escapes the Death Star, as Darth Vader wants him to so that the tracker placed on the Millennium Falcon will lead the Empire to the hidden location of the Rebel Base on the fourth moon of the gas giant Yavin, but then Leia is incompetent too because she suspects that their escape was too easy and doesn't switch ships before returning to Yavin 4. The Empire is then incompetent for exiting Hyperspace with Yavin in the way of them being able to fire at Yavin 4 immediately. This gives the Rebellion time to get their X-wings into space and for Rogue Squadron to destroy the super weapon before it has line of sight on Yavin 4. You can argue that this incompetence is actually due to Marsha Lucas changing the ending of the film in the editing suite and making it feel more tense by inserting a couple of graphics of the Death Star progressively moving into the position it ought to have navigated through Hyperspace to had it been piloted by anyone competent. We see in all of the Prequel films that every arrival at a planet is never blocked by another celestial body. The only exception to this is Obi-Wan Kenobi following Jango Fett to Geonosis and having to follow him into the planet's rings. So, you could argue that Marsha Lucas introduced a plot hole (i.e. "Why are the Empire terrible navigators?") when if they were competent they would have been able to exit Hyperspace any number of places and get direct line of sight on Yavin's fourth moon and destroy it before Rogue Squadron can destroy them. Yet, the thing about plot holes is that they don't matter that much if they are few in number and the audience's emotional engagement with the characters overrides their rational minds. If the audience gets bored, due to characterisation not being compelling, their rational minds will start to notice the plot holes in _The Last Jedi_ and realise there are an awful lot of them, and become detached from the experience, and ultimately cease suspending their disbelief as the fictional world has not made sufficient effort to be consistent within its own terms. If the characters were better, no one would care about the missing blade in the Throne Room fight, and anyone who tried to cite it as a flaw would be met by fans of the film's good character arcs who were keen to expand the Force to explain away these flaws. If you don't want fans to be able to do this (and I know Rian Johnson admitted this was a mistake in the choreography which was compounded by the second blade not being completely digitally erased during post production), then only see films that don't make use of magic in their stories. _Star Wars_ has magic, and has elaborated on what the Force can do for you in each of the George Lucas episodes, so there is no limit to Disney building upon that further in their Sequels and spin-off films and TV series. Some authors of fantasy novels work out in advance the limits of their magic system (e.g. basing everything on the four elements) and have mages who know all that there is to know and not have any new magical abilities thrown in later on, so when readers see a situation unfold they can guess what magic will be used by a character with certain knowledge of specific spells with a given mana level when they are uninjured and not in such emotional turmoil that it is impossible for them to focus. This can make these books fun to read as the reader can think "Oh, Bill is going to try this now" and be proven correct, and feel pleased that they are really understanding the rules of this world. In comparison to this, _Star Wars_ is trash and has always been trash. Don't get angry because I am just pointing out that truth. When Rian Johnson says the second blade was a mistake he is to be ignored as cinema goers can't be expected to read all about the production of the movie they are about to see and therefore tell what to ignore as a flaw and not misattribute as an example of a Force Ability. I didn't notice the flaws in the Throne Room fight, and that was one of only two parts of the movie I actually liked. I also liked Paige Tico at the beginning. I hated everything else.
I'm writing a Star Wars fan fic, called Into the Grey. They main focus is my OC, Ruthless Zunro, a purple skinned Dathomirian raised on Kamino. He's about ten years younger than AOTC Anakin. He was unknowingly, even to himself, very gifted in the force. He was able to rival master Jedi after a couple weeks of training. Then he gets his first mission. Saving Anakin, Padme and Obi Wan on Geonosios with his master, Mace Windu. Eventually, he gets to face Count Dooku. When he witnessed Count Dooku use force lightning on Yoda, he thought he could do the same. Keep in mind, Zunro also feels no emotion. He points a hand out towards Dooku and purple electricity bursts from his finger tips for a second. Then he faints. What's interesting is that the spot where his lightning struck near Dooku was ice cold to the touch. I don't have a name for this ability yet. Is there something like cold lightning in Star Wars lore?
There was something intriguing to do with Rey and the dark side but they missed it. They went in this direction with Reva as well but still it doesn't make sense. It doesn't bother me if Rey is extremely powerful, unnaturally so, and I was okay with this dyad idea. But it has to make sense. They could have given her experiences with Sidious in the past, for one. But to do that they'd have to have known her backstory before they started filming. I do think there's a bit of a loophole with children and the dark side. Small children can hate innocently. Anyway I think we have to use the dyad to explain it. Rey and Kylo are linked and through the link insane powers are possible. Since one is dark and the other light they can access abilities in opposition to their alignment through the alignment of the other. They can pull knowledge from one another and there is room for spontaneity (force healing, force lightening). It's like when Rey accesses the dark side it's accessing a whole greater than her and Kylo and out of this horrors can arise. But again, it needs to make sense.
I thought it happened because she was connected to an unstable dark side user through the force, not because she accidentally accessed the dark side herself.
So then why was anakin never able to do that Was it because lucas didn’t bring up that idea or was it because anakin refused to be a dark side user what are the rules for it It’s why the rules was there to begin with that’s the issue Once the rules are broken everything falls apart Why wasn’t obiwan able to force heal qui gon etc…
@@Zjonishealing ... Because I was talking about when she accidentally used Force Lightning and not when she intentionally used Force healing and I provided no details or explanation for her aptitude with a new Force power (an old ones if you factor in the games and non-cannon novels) and in fact didn't even address it?
@@andrewgibson7330 I used that as a side not I understand what you’re talking about What I had said was by your logic anakin would have accidentally used force lightning also as palpatine would have constantly been connected to him Could it have been becuase Lucas didn’t think of it and Disney made it up Hence why I brought up the force healing When you add new rules it makes older episodes seem stupid as fuck which is why I stated then why didn’t obi wan just use force healing You see what I’m getting at
I still feel horrible to this day for chuckling in theatres about what was thought of as Chewbacca’s death, the string of events was so nuts that I couldn’t believe what I was looking at.😂
The "Force" as a whole is neutral with life and especially sentiment tending to pull or choosing to pull one way or another and most mindsets can see things only in black and white and can't walk the grey Jedi can use force lightning,its just that the ability is based in all the negative emotions that swing you into the dark side unchecked as sometimes its "easier" to go Bezerk and unleash your fury(Luke's sudden buff vs Vader from Rage)
It’s truly mesmerising when people say that we’ll appreciate the sequels in 15 years time and the prequels were equally as hated. There was certainly disappointment in regards to how child friendly and political the prequels were but IMO they’ve always been brilliant and iconic. Of course they have their flaws but they were magical and only got better over time. The sequels however are a complete shit show of a mess and proves that the Star Wars name alone cannot carry a movie, let alone a trilogy. Disney themselves know how miserably they failed in continuing Lucas’ legacy. They never should have touched the Skywalker saga, especially without any preparation.
Ray could have used Force lightning because of her diet with Kilo rens whose allegiance is in the dark side of the force and due to the diet if she could have an intentionally used Force lightning out of kylo ren's emotions
I don’t think taking force lightning into you is cannon anymore Which was a stupid concept any way. By that logic force lightning shouldn’t even be possible since the very first person to ever have learned the ability would have no person to ever have struck him with force lightning so with this logic how is anyone able to use it in the first place?
Honestly sick and tired of Rey "Mary Sue" just mastering incredibly advanced things (flying ships she has only looked at so far, shooting a blaster with marksman precision, using a lightsaber, using Force abilities on Sith Lord/Jedi Master levels, etc.) almost instantly because the writers need her to be the perfect hero in every frame she's in. As if they're afraid of showing a female character that's not perfectly in control and competent at all times... Luke, with the lineage of Anakin Skywalker, had to concentrate like mad just to Force pull his lightsaber or move some rocks around. Yes, during his training, but he had to struggle to get to where he was at the end, whereas Rey is just handed these things.
Well one way perhaps to reconcile this accident is the fact that one point in the cannon a Sith or someone inclined towards the dark side discovered that they can do this as well accidently. Are you able to make a video on the force user who discovered force lighting and how it was discovered? Compare that maybe to why Rey accidently doing it is not the same?
This edit is insane!! I hope this is the new hire. 8:25 what?! I thought we were talking about Rey. Is it Force lightning, Sith Lightning or Force Judgement? You speak of 3 different forms of lightning but only address two.
"That's not how the force works."
The way Harrison Ford delivers that line in TFA, perfectly sums up the entire sequel trilogy. It's like he's telling the audience that this is absolutely ludicrous.
😂😂😂😂hell yea
He tried to warn us.
Agreed, I just wanted that scene to play over and over at every foul up the sequel trilogy. My biggest problem would be Leia flying back to the ship, I don't care how strong you are in the Force, but it doesn't save you from an absence of oxygen and heat.
Not at all.
I like how Mark told us he plays Jake Skywalker in the sequel fanfics, too.
THANK YOU!
Her using force lightning because she’s related to palpatine is like me doing a quadruple spin kick in a high stress situation cuss my grandpa did taekwondo
Best analogy, excellent 👍🏻
@@samriver3677 thanks!
I would say there might be a genetic impact on how powerful certain force powers are for users like how star killer was naturally gifted with powerful lightning and so was his clone but they didn't just know how to do it they discovered their affinity for it after they trained and unlocked the skill. star killer was trained by one of the most powerful dark side users since he was a child rey had zero instruction on these skills.
@@jaredflynn3750 exactly!
Did we just become best friends
The problem with Disney Star Wars is they treat the Force like a superpower where under Lucas it was treated more mystically.
That's a very good way of putting it.
💯
My thoughts exactly. It's not mutant power. It's an ability to learn. If you even want the potential to learn.
Admittedly there have been cases of this in both the old and new EUs. Some writers just felt that the fact that canon Anakin and Luke, some of the most powerful Force-sensitives ever, weren't able to do much more than basic ESP without training was no reason that they couldn't write characters who spontaneously manifested full-blown superpowers. Which spread into the Disney sequels.
Superpowers are literally mystical abilities
that moment when yoda absorbs the lightning and tells duku he still has much to learn is my favourite part of the entire series
I agree there was more background like dooku thought yoda was evil cuz he could do that dooku thought he was using the dark side which actually brilliant because it adds to the story
@@kingjim9619 i got a stroke trying to read it
Edit: NVM I UNDERSTAND NOW
@@kingjim9619 engrish
The look of sheer panic on Dooku's face when yoda just pulls in his lightning like it's nothing, is priceless.
@@The_Moodi pretty easy with a basic understanding of English. Yeah his grammar sucks but whatever. The point is that people actually believed Yoda almost turned due to his ability to access hate and use dark force abilities. He was so powerful that he had "gone there and back" and was the only TRUE balance in the Force. He doesn't just redirect lightning, he straight up absorbs it. He has hatred for Dooku in that moment but is also so full of love and knowledge that he can remain balanced and focused. He can, at will, be the most powerful being among either art without losing himself to either one.
It was revealed by Daisy Ridley that there was no full story for Rey. Disney came up with the story as they moved a long with the movies. It’s probably one of the worst executed stories in Star Wars. Great video!
Yes it managed to work out ok with the original trilogy but this is why having the idea to copy the formula by having different people direct each movie and not having a planned story arc for the trilogy in place from the beginning was the worst idea possible. Especially when director number 2 thought subverting expectations by undermining what was set up and also by making old Luke Skywalker into the antithesis of what young Skywalker was in every way would make him seem clever rather than being a letdown that alienated the dedicated fans and derailed the coherence of the overall story the trilogy should have been telling.
I legitimately feel bad for Daisy; forced to play an unjustifiably overpowered '''''Jedi''''' with no personality and inevitably ends up on fans' hate list. I don't know much about her personally, but she seems like a nice woman. Just another actor who's hated for their movie roles.
That right there is my main gripe with the trilogy... There should have been a well thought out plan in place before they started. Say what you want about Lucas, but having a vision in mind was never a weakness of his.
@@MiKen877 sequels would still be successful lf Rian Johnson wasn't involved and single handedly defied all expectation and destroyed the easiest cash grab franchise ever. But I prefer the current state of Star Wars over what could have been without Rian Johnson : waves and waves of terrible sequels.
Fin should’ve been Force sensitive
Rey accidentally using force lighting, a power that takes sith years to master, because of convenient genetics just shows how little Disney understand about Star Wars.
Like I said she a Mary Sue character
@@SpartanA239 I don't like using that term too often, but it definitely applies to Rey, unfortunately. It makes me sad the sequel trilogy was handled without care.
Exactly
They even claim to ask George Lucas about things but its clear they take everything he says and just throws it out the window. I'm all for "Strong female characters" but someone that takes like 5 minutes to learn ability that takes Jedi/Sith years to learn and master is just lazy. Rey is like the very definition of a Mary Sue
Ray is the worst character in the Star Wars. Seriously even jar jar is cooler.
The prequels may have flaws, but they understand the lore.
The Disney Trilogy is a fuck up in every way
Oh please. The prequels had such a bad misunderstanding of the lore they retconned most of what everyone said in the original trilogy.
Leia said Obi Wan served her father in the clone wars. The only time in the Prequels they even interacted was when Bail was helping him.
Obi Wan said Anakin followed him on some damn fool crusade. In the prequels he followed Qui Gon.
Obi Wan said Yoda was his master. In the prequels it was Qui Gon.
Retcon after pointless, stupid retcon.
@@levongevorgyan6789 From my knowledge, Yoda is a universal master, and Obi wan most likely worked with Bail at other points in the close wars, which I believe was shown in the animated series, the clone wars.
@@TeenWithACarrotIDK Qui Gon's existence is a retcon, so Yoda being made into the equivalent of an elementary school teacher was damage control. And it fell to an outside series, NOT the Prequels to try and fix Lucas messing up the lore of his own story.
Pointing to the CLone Wars doesn't clear the Prequels themselves.
The Bible is truth. Please read at least Genesis Mathew and one book of the Bible you chose yourself. It is important that as you do you practice forgiveness. It’s an important part of what Jesus Christ taught that too many people forget. The process of genuinely meaning to forgive within your heart is the key that makes everything click. Start with your parents. They’re supposed to be the easiest, having loved you. There’s deep spiritual significance in that relationship to God. Looking inside to deal with your inner baggage and grow, that’s what shows the faith you need. Afterwards, break down before Jesus Christ and ask for forgiveness. Simply bare your soul in prayer. Take down those walls you’ve built up between you and God. Please, trust me. The Bible is truth. It’s just that you’ve got to take it seriously enough to do what Jesus Christ taught as an adult. Please, take your salvation seriously.
Jesus Christ is the way truth and life.
@@jamesmayle3787 no I shall worship Obi-Wan forever.
It's funny, you covered every single thing I wanted to bring up, from inheriting abilities to bane killing his dad before training. I'd be fine if rey is a savant at force lightning, but they had to make her a natural in everyyyyyything, sheesh.
Anakin's the Chosen one? Well, well, REY is the DOUBLE CHOSEN ONE!!
Mary Sue plot armor saves the day yet again LOL
This is because of that Whamen producer and head of the StarWars Office, making Rey into the StarWars Second Coming of Christ.
@@jdmmike7225 but but but AnAkIn Is A MaRy Sue- everyone making excuses for this poor trilogy
Yeah she was so natural she didn't even need any training from Luke the greatest Jedi ever 🙄SMH
When it comes to Magic systems, it is important to stick to the internally consistent rules layer out by the story, especially when its on the softer side like the Force. If you dont, the entire thing can unwravel and any sense of suspension of disbelief goes out the window.
Do you have magic? As a Sorcerer, a Smith the most powerful kind of Sorcerer, and being the most powerful Smith in the world I didn't recognize my power when I was making my most powerful accomplishments. Raised in a powerful environment by powerful people my first exertion of power that shook the world for decades afterward happened when I was 16. I still have power but I'm directing it in light side ways rather than just because I can I do without thought of the consequence. Some of the forces I put out had un foreseen consequence. Popularizing nationalistic war for instance. I was just showing appreciation for our troops. The ways of magic are not linear. They are closer to quantum physics than to classical physics. Trying to direct my power in linear ways seems to backfire on me. Now I try to let the power flow on its own paths, and try to take the light path as much as I can see it.
Since it has solid rules I’d argue the force is a hard magic system
@@goldenlotus3046 Your canoe will obey your commands. But your canoe doesn't command the flow of the river.
In the Episode 3 novel, which I'm not even sure Disney still considers canon, it was touched on from Anakin's perspective what being potentially powerful in the Force was like without training. For him, it was just like have a strong intuition, being really "lucky" at guessing, and not knowing why. For Rey, it's basically just being better/more competent than everyone around her and having super powers she can spring even on accident. If Disney had made Episode 1 I can't help but think that, after child Rey had gotten done out-dog fighting hordes of vulture droid fighters on her own, having never piloted a fighter before, and destroyed the droid control ship, shutting down the attacking droid armies and saving Naboo, she would have flown down to surface in time to use the dying Qui Gon's lightsaber to save the defeated Obi Wan, who was about to be killed by Maul, by out-duling the Sith warrior, cutting him in half and force-lightning him down the bottomless pit.
Kinda like bad (most) self-insert/OC fanfictions where they have their character somehow interfere in two or three different fights that are happening at the same time in the show/book when it’s literally impossible for them to get to each fight in time. Just want their perfect character to save everyone and wreck shop, ruining the other character’s fights, emotional growth, and any stakes in the plot.
Haters really exaggerate just how good Rey is at everything. She fails at nearly everything she tries to do throughout the series and when she does win it's because she has a massive advantage already. Everyone who is remotely competent and fresh effortlessly beats her down.
@@immortalfrieza
Not sure what movies you watched, dude, but all I saw was her instantly more competent than everyone around her at almost everything.
I don't hate her, I'm just severely disappointed.
@@immortalfrieza It’s also how comparatively everyone else around her is so INcompetent that she looks better just by association.
@@orangegalen Nearly every main protagonist of anything ever is way better at everything than everyone else around them barring maybe the main villain, that's how main protagonists work. If they aren't they quickly become that way in a fraction of the time it takes anyone else to become that good. It's why the main protagonist is the main protagonist. With the supporting characters role being to do the 1 or 2 things the main protagonist isn't amazingly good at. Everyone else is made barely competent to make the main protagonist be able to take center stage.
Besides, it's not like Finn, Poe, Han, and Chewie aren't competent when they do things, they fill different niches.
When Darth Bane killed his father, it stated in the book that he “imagined a hand squeezing his fathers heart” so I believe that was him accidentally using a force crush just like how mace windu crushed Grivious’ chestplate just before revenge of the sith
Absolutely, people forget the soth use their emotions to enhance their power
@@LaLeakers24 Yeah true, jedi don't trust their emotions, while Sith use their emotions and it's in their code.
"Peace is a lie, There is only PASSION
Through Passion, I gain STRENGTH
Through Strength, I gain POWER
Through Power, I gain VICTORY
Through Victory, My Chains Are Broken
THE FORCE, shall free me"
When Luke first uses force pull to summon his lightsaber in the Empire novel, Obi-Wan's voice tells him "imagine the lightsaber in your hand"
In other words, the force canonically works by imagining what you want it to do and concentrating
@@The_D0C70R So it's not that accidental then
@@The_D0C70R so when trying to pull down the ship with her friend on it she imagined blowing it up?
I knew after TLJ that episode 9 was going to be a disaster so I went in with expectations so low they were underground so when she shot the lightning I died laughing in the theater lol
The way Rey screeches "CHEWIE!!!"
Omg, that was laughably awful.
Really, me too. I’d given up hope so the whole movie I was just laughing
The Bible is truth. Please read at least Genesis Mathew and one book of the Bible you chose yourself. It is important that as you do you practice forgiveness. It’s an important part of what Jesus Christ taught that too many people forget. The process of genuinely meaning to forgive within your heart is the key that makes everything click. Start with your parents. They’re supposed to be the easiest, having loved you. There’s deep spiritual significance in that relationship to God. Looking inside to deal with your inner baggage and grow, that’s what shows the faith you need. Afterwards, break down before Jesus Christ and ask for forgiveness. Simply bare your soul in prayer. Take down those walls you’ve built up between you and God. Please, trust me. The Bible is truth. It’s just that you’ve got to take it seriously enough to do what Jesus Christ taught as an adult. Please, take your salvation seriously.
Jesus Christ is the way truth and life.
@@k.c.8722 luckily my theater has a full bar inside so I had a great night 🤣
Disney needs George Lucas' input & guidance to do Star Wars content in order not to keep screwing it up, but I doubt they will seek the help as they believe they "know" what they're doing; seriously Disney, take it from the fans...you need George's vision & you do not have it. At this rate; you're going to lose more fans than your "fleshed-out cartoon villains" can handle. You would be wiser to admit you do not have George's vision & get help from the man before it is too late & you bring his vision to an unhappy end. Admitting a mistake is the mature thing to do. So, how mature are you? What's your character? Are you mature enough to admit you need help; swallow your pride? The world is watching...sigh...I for one do not want to see Star Wars crash & burn. Best wishes all
This is what grinds my gears with how the Force is portrayed in the sequels, I understand certain individuals are really gifted in the Force but certain abilities require some extensive training, take Yoda's ability to absorb Force lightning, if we go by the logic of the sequels then every Force user is capable of absorbing Force lightning right off the bat.
Luke was as gifted as it comes with the force, it took him being introduced to the force by Obi-Wan, all the events of a new hope and then the 2 years (I think) between ANH and Empire for him to JUST about pull his lightsaber to him as the Wampa approached. Cut to Rey and all she had to do was touch the lightsaber in Maz’s basement and like the same day was able to out pull Kylo to retrieve the lightsaber, because ‘strong female characters’
@@darthconquerus Rey's issue isn't " strong female " it's her character as a whole if Rey was a man he'd still be a terrible Gary sue
@@Ronnie-mx1wu the motivation of the writers was “strong female character”. No one denies it would be equally ridiculous to find a male Rey doing this exact thing but Rey existing as a whole was brought about for “female representation”. So yes it is because “strong female character” because that is what sparked this madness of a sequel in the first place.
this. ☝🏻
@@Ronnie-mx1wu no absolutely, but Kathleen Kennedy seemed to think that having strong female characters meant wearing a ‘the force is female’ t shirt and not actually bothering have the writers do any character development
This is why I honestly thought that it would have been better if Rey was a fully trained Sith who'd had her memory wiped so she could get close to Luke to kill him and the Resistance, with the final choice for her to retake her memories and rejoin Palpatine or choose her new identity and friends.
Star Wars Total Recall sounds much better
So Rey becomes Revan, basically?
@@riaingalligan8461 Revan is certainly more interesting than Rey. She can only get better with a variation of his backstory.
I actually like that.
"Don't ask questions, just consume product." - Disney
Yeah, pretty much...
That lines takes an even deeper meaning if you've seen THX-1138 by George Lucas.
Lucas sold it, with Disney you would of never seen Star Wars again. Quit crying
The fact that they thought that making her use one of the most advanced sith techniques on accident would help foreshadow that she was a palpatine
The Bible is truth. Please read at least Genesis Mathew and one book of the Bible you chose yourself. It is important that as you do you practice forgiveness. It’s an important part of what Jesus Christ taught that too many people forget. The process of genuinely meaning to forgive within your heart is the key that makes everything click. Start with your parents. They’re supposed to be the easiest, having loved you. There’s deep spiritual significance in that relationship to God. Looking inside to deal with your inner baggage and grow, that’s what shows the faith you need. Afterwards, break down before Jesus Christ and ask for forgiveness. Simply bare your soul in prayer. Take down those walls you’ve built up between you and God. Please, trust me. The Bible is truth. It’s just that you’ve got to take it seriously enough to do what Jesus Christ taught as an adult. Please, take your salvation seriously.
Jesus Christ is the way truth and life.
@@jamesmayle3787 Jesus is Palpatine.
@@n.e.g4865 Or is Palpatine Jesus?
@@megaman37456 both
@@jamesmayle3787 jesus was secretly a sith
The writers for Disney don't care about the rules, or Star Wars established canon, they only care about their agenda, and that was for Rey to be the "bestest evar".
Disney thinks force weilders and Mutants are the same thing 😕
THE BESTEST EVAAAAAAAAAR!!! 😉🥳🤣🤣🤣🤣
I don't know if the typo was intentional, but it adds so much.
Yeah, which again goes against the previous movies, as Anakin was supposed to be the "bestest evar" as his father is practically the force, having an insane amount of midichlorians. Everyone calls Obi Wan space jesus because of his looks, but Anakin is actually the space jesus. He is the son of the force, destined to do the impossible. And then a couple of decades later, nevermind it was all for nothing, Palpatin is back and his granddaugther is the forces new favorite :/
You think they give a sh*t about politics? No. The only thing they care about is money.
When I saw that I was so pissed they literally made her a Mary Sue character
The fact they gave Rey Han's ship, his wookie, Anakin's lightsaber, Luke's X-Wing, the Skywalker name, and let Rey defeat the Sith once and for all. That didn't make you pissed off? But her shooting lighting from her finger tips was the final straw for you?
Oh no I hated the whole trilogy but I’m a lore freak and when I saw her use force lightning just upset my lore loving nature to it very core even more then the other two Disney Star Wars movies fucked up Star Wars lore
@@fatdaddyeddiejr Its not that deep lmao
@@Noriaela yeah. They stripped away and destroyed two legacy characters to make their Mary Sue. That's what happened.
@@fatdaddyeddiejr without an effort applied on top of that too
Rey just "existing" is so infuriating
that's why I decided to just pretend that character don't even exist anymore. Rey who?
If she remained a scavenger, it would be so much more interesting.
@@Stringer7390 You know… you aren’t wrong. A Mandalorian-esque show about a scavenger in star wars could work, too bad this is what we got-
@@dryfox11 yeah. To be honest, I thought Rey and Finn were okay characters, up until Finn just suddenly knows how to use a lightsaber and Rey can use the force.
@@Jinx_Skeel Rey Shadow Legends?
It's pretty cool that Dooku's eyes remained their natural color even though he was using an ability that required so much hatred
Well you could tell he didn't hate them at all. This guy's theory is just incorrect. He didn't hate everyone he just thought he was doing the right thing.
He didn’t hate them, he became a Sith because the Jedi were basically lax when they shouldn’t be. He never went full evil
Nothing Dooku ever does is out of hatred for the Jedi or the Republic.
Dooku found out about the clone army, investigated it, realized a Sith Lord stole the identity of a Jedi Master to order it and put the pieces together that the current Dark Lord of the Sith was actually in charge of the government.
He then starts a civil war/rebellion against the powers that be to try and force the Sith to reveal themselves as a whole and to try and save the Jedi from their own complacency.
Dooku wanted to save the galaxy, save the Jedi and save the Republic and if Obi-Wan had joined Dooku on Geonosis it is very possible the two of them could have averted the Galactic Empire, the fall of Anakin and have ousted Palpatine.
@@LewisB3217 Ehh Dooku did become pretty slimy though. He was indirectly and directly involved with the death of many people.
@@TheLikenessOfNormal I feel like his offer to Obi-Wan was just an attempt at a power grab for his own benefit rather than The Republic. Dooku had ample knowledge and power to expose The Sith to the whole galaxy and stop Palpatine any time he wanted, not just to Obi-Wan that one time on Geonosis. He fully enabled the war to distract the Jedi and weaken The Republic so it could more quickly run into the open arms of Palpatine's tyranny, tyranny that he fully believed he'd have his own place in up until the very last moments of his life.
Disney was trying to internalize the idea of adding Mutants into the MCU around this time and so they got confused about the difference between the Force (a learned skill that requires innate potential) and Mutant powers (which just manifest, often without the Mutant understanding what they are doing).
A multi-billion dollar company got confused? I'm not disputing they did what they did, but I'm going to have to argue the point on your reasoning. A lot of people just write this off as bad business, poor decision making, they just don't understand.. y'all are gullible. You can draw your own conclusions on what the reasons might be, but the fact of the matter is they're doing this shit on purpose. I think that at least is pretty undeniable, at this point, they've been consistent about it so, as with lightning from Rey, I don't exactly buy it being accidental.
@@draconianemanations2785 - The challenge with written posts is that one's sarcasm is not conveyed as it would be when speaking the same words verbally.
@@daniels7907 lol true 👌
@@daniels7907 Not a challenge. You simply add the /s. Note: none of this is sarcasm I'm just finding a teachable moment and springing on it.
Rey accidentally crushing the fuel lines of the ship to make it explode would work just as well for the story, but would not look as cool.
Is it Just me or did that lightning rey shot look dumb af?
I think it could have been way better. Have the ship's engines cut, Rey starts pulling it back..But then she feels it start to fall, sputtering and smoking and she struggles to keep it from falling..Then right before it would hit the ground....BOOM.
Or ripping it in half or simply tearing it to pieces and accidentally flinging pieces of the ship everywhere
@@samtheweebo maybe she could have force crushed the shuttle like luke did to those dark troopers in mando 2 finale.
@@samtheweebo It's not like Rey hadn't ripped something apart with The Force unintentionally before. The whole thing was nothing more than hokey foreshadowing of her lineage... that Rey shouldn't have had in the first place.
Everything about Rey was infuriating as she had no flaws whatsoever. She was an expert scavenger, expert staff wielder, expert mechanic, expert pilot, expert gunner, defeated Kylo Ren the first time she ever held a lightsaber, expert Force user after just thinking about random Force powers (Jedi mind trick on the Stormtrooper). Even though she spent all her life on a desert planet she knew how to swim somehow, defeated a Jedi Grandmaster without effort (Luke tripped??! WTF!), levitate an entire rock-face worth of boulders which was a feat that only Jedi Masters could pull off, conveniently shoots lightning without any training or reason, had some wierd connection with Kylo where they could even share physical items with eachother. It just made no sense at all. She was like the ultimate Mary Sue with instant Jedi and Sith Force abilities.
There also just wasn't any "Hero's Journey" at all. Everything was just handed to her on a silver platter and she could overcome everything without any effort whatsoever. Frankly, it was insulting to watch and clearly showed that Disney had zero understanding of Star Wars and were just treating it as Rey's personal playground.
Meanwhile Luke was just a farmboy who saw his whole world fall apart (and his aunt and uncle lying outside burnt to a crisp), got his ass handed to him multiple times until he started training, couldn't even lift his X-Wing out of the swamp, then got his ass handed to him again and again until eventually he proved victorious in the end (after receiving lots of training). That was a proper "Hero's Journey" while Rey just skated on by with zero effort.
Especially infuriating because Luke was the son of Anakin a fulcrum of the force and by George Lucas' own admission "The most powerful Jedi ever, PERIOD!" His exact words.
@@notsure8513 Yeah, as such I simply view the Disney trilogy as non-canon, regardless of what Disney claims, and see them purely as a casestudy on how NOT to make movies.
Rey is like a ubisoft game that someone paid for all the unlocks day one.
Luke earned his reputation as one of the best and most powerful Jedi ever. Rey was just...given everything. It's infuriating and disappointing
The only thing wrong with your claims, is that Rey beat Luke. Luke clearly had the upper hand, and only backed off once Rey pulled out a lightsaber, and even then he could have beat her. Everything else you said is 100% right though
There was literally no thought in that scene, just "I bet it would look cool if Rey shot some lightning lol"
This video is more informed than that whole movie
A story where genetics defines power level should be a social commentary on why that is a terrible idea and should absolutely not celebrate a main character for being genetically better… Ray’s existence deemphasizes the amount of effort force wielders actually put into their training.
But the only people in Star Wars that have ever been of any worth are main cast members and their descendants. This came about as far back as the OT having Luke being Vader's son and thus the "last hope" a thing. Star Wars has been a tale of bluebloods fighting each other while everybody else can barely help from the sidelines if they can do anything at all. What made Rey interesting was the fact that she was a total nobody and the child of nobodies, which made her HAHA nope she's the grandchild of Palpatine.
@@immortalfrieza Who were Yoda, Mace Windu, Obi-Wan and all of the other Jedi in the old republic related to?
Luke and Leia were just important because they were the only people around that were strong in the force to beat Vader and Sidious.
Genetics help but training should be at least 80% to 90% of the factor. Luke could barely get his lightsaber out of the snow with the little training he got from Obi-Wan.
Also means race realism is true in Disney star wars universe
@@immortalfrieza Some of the strongest Jedi with no connection to the main character's bloodline or some other random bloodline "of power": Ahsoka, Shaak Ti, Plo Koon, Mace Windu. The hyper focus of the main characters made it seem like bloodline was a thing but it just showed their stories, not that it was the only thing that made a strong Jedi/Sith.
Yeah just look at obi-wan, he had a relatively medium to low midchlorian count of around 11,000-13,000, but because he worked and trained hard he became one of the best duelists in the universe and arguably the best soresu practitioner of all time.
To be AS GENEROUS AS POSSIBLE, it was most likely just to foreshadow her connection to Palpatine. If I recall correctly, at this point in the film, she wasn't aware of it yet.
Even Lego Star Wars the Skywalker Saga pokes fun at this, as during the cutscene when Rey finds out she's a Palpatine, she's suddenly holding the Force Lightning Lego pieces that Palpatine uses in his playsets IRL.
I could respect the idea that it MIGHT represent the untapped Dark Side potential that is dormant within her, due to her lineage, but, again, HOW it happened doesn't make sense. It would have actually made a lot more sense if she cast the bolt at Kylo, as a means to get him to stop, or better yet, she Force Pulled the ship so hard it came apart, or she accidentally slammed it into the ground and the crash blew it up. That would show her rage being a potential problem, instead of them just brushing this off in the very next scene like they did in the movie.
I think you have a reasonable take. It could have been done better, but the fact that it happened doesn't bother me.
agreed. there were better ways that made more sense to demonstrate a wild burst of dark side power in a frustrating moment of conflict. This was a "We still have CGI money" moment.
From a story beat perspective, it’s actually one of the things I thought the film did right. Strong leanings toward the dark side is probably the best way to give a minimally trained prodigy a reasonably compelling arc.
But the execution was poor for at least two reasons: one is that as the video suggests, it’s done by breaking the universe’s rules. Your suggestions would help solve this one. The other problem is that they didn’t fully commit - there were ultimately no consequences, and Rey never has to address this problem as fully as I’d like - they leaned more into the “who am I” conflict instead. I get that they probably didn’t want to kill Chewy, but they could put some unnamed Resistance members on the ship, and address that fact later. Something to make Rey’s error mean something for longer than two minutes and demand some sort of character transformation.
Using the force lightning to stun or stop someone would be considered emerald lightning or electric judgement which only really powerful Jedi like Plo Koon or even Luke Skywalker had. It's possible that at some point in time she could have acquired those powers after she learned who she was but I agree that Disney doesn't know how best to handle the Star Wars franchise. They are running it the best they can but since they didn't create it they don't know how to really run it right. It's interesting to note that Rian Johnson in The Last Jedi bonus features said that the Force is not a superpower. He might of understood that a little more than JJ Abrams did. He didn't understand that at all and that shows in that last film. While those films are good they aren't anything like how George Lucas would have done them. I only wonder what he must think about how Disney is running his franchise now.
Honestly one of the most well articulated and thought out opinions/explanations I’ve ever seen from a Star Wars fan in the comments.
Rey as a whole, is infuriating
Such a wasted character. Could have been awesome, and I feel like the poor writing and motivation didn’t give Ridley much to work with either.
@@rogermcbadlad2812 Finn as well, even his actor said they just used him as a token black guy, if they had teamed up and been the force less but knowledgeable duo, could’ve actually had some cool events, but this is what we got…
@@dryfox11 I always thought Finn was going to be the force user and Rey was the saber user
They are terrible without each other but together they would be a team to fear
@@Zjonishealing Me too at the start of the movie actually, how cool would that have been? Ex storm trooper jedi is pretty badass, but nOoOooo
@@dryfox11 right I would have been so hype and It wouldn’t be a copy of a new hope trilogy
Fun fact, Force Judgement can also rejuvenate you if you are deemed just by the Force. So if Plo Koon cast it on Ashoka for example mid-combat, she would feel more energy come to her, and her existing wounds (if present) would lessen in severity.
Listening to your description on how Force Lightning works, the only innate Force Lightning I accept is with the Sith Inquisitor in The Old Republic... mostly because it's funny how many conversations give you the option to just shock someone or something as a solution.
One of the funniest is the inquisitor just pointing their index to the side without even looking and shooting just a small amount for like a second towards some mother fucker off screen.
Not only able to use force lightning, but Rey is somehow a master at force healing, which I’m pretty sure would take longer to master.
Like how long it took Luke to become a Jedi? Stop picking and choosing what you want to accept.
@@bobbywashington1975 Luke was taught by both masters Obi-Wan Kenobi and Yoda. He learned the basics such as force pull, push, and letting the force guide him during the time of a war that took years.The first time he dueled Darth Vader, he lost and it humbled him. Every time Rey dueled Kylo Ren, she always won and never learned anything from it.
@@theanominous so your ok with him spending about 30 minutes of screen time with obi wan and then out maneuvering Vader and blowing up the death star? Ok whatever
@@bobbywashington1975 he didn’t outmaneuver Darth Vader. Han Solo saved Luke.
@@bobbywashington1975 funny since that is still 30 minutes more training than Rey ever had, maybe you should stop picking instances that favors your view while ignoring the many others that discredits it, I swear Disney Star Wars fans are some of the most ignorant people, Luke using force pull because he can use force push is not a big a stretch as Rey using force lightning/healing and mind probe/domination without anyone to have learned her how to, she is the definition of a Mary Sue, Luke had losses and Rey does not.
I love this video format much better than the others. There’s no talking in circles to artificially lengthen the video or cutting off ends of words due to splicing sentences together through editing. I also enjoy hearing what you personally think and feel about Star Wars. Please make more videos about what is your personal cannon in Star Wars and what you would like to see in the future. Maybe writing your own stories with other content creators, especially an unknown regions story since you have made so much content about that topic already, it’s an area that Star Wars cannon never really touches.
I mean, in the first episode of the sequel trilogy Rey managed to learn force mind domination during an interrogation and became so adept that not only a) she was able to fend off someone with much more experience with the force. B) able to use the skill well enough to force a stormtrooper to release her.
So, the idea that Rey can accidentally use force lightning due to genetics is just par for the corse with this character.
I never really thought about it much I just thought that was dumb she just did it out of nowhere. This was a well done video going in depth about force lightning and the dark side. I knew you needed training and was a high level force ability, also you had to be a dark side user
Please do more of these. We need new Star Wars fans to understand how the force actually works
I'm pretty sure in the Darth Bane novels it's stated there are more than three Sith Academies, but the primary ones were on Umbara the Shadow Assassins, and Korriban where the trained the best of the best, the supposed future Sith Masters. (there was a third one in the top tiers but I forget the planet it was one. I wanna say it was on Dathomir where the Marauders came from.)
Great video though. It really does seem they were just doing whatever they wanted when it came to the sequels.
I was more irate about the end of the last jedi with all the levitating rocks and Rey stopping concentrating on them to hug Finn and the rocks just stayed in place, I swear she broke the force on that one.
Not really they can do that when you attain mastery of something concentration no longer needed. The one that broke the force was Ben actually stopping a blast in mid air for few dozen seconds effortlessly. If he was strong enough for that he should be strong enough to the story he protrayed making him look incompetent through and through. Not even previous Sith did that and if they could they wouldve stopped any shots hell they couldve just deflected it with the force too why need lightsabers.
@Steven Martinez Garcia so we agreed that Disney essentially broke the force. And I don't know Rey's rocks had to have weighted more then a water logged x-wing and I don't see Yoda stop his concentration or in attack of the clones when dooku was getting away and he was stuck holding up that big plier worst he could even change its trajectory to hit dooku's escape craft
Basically that a good example of what happens when the wrighters don't know about the world they are expanding on! They just got Darth Sidius as reference and were like "He does that easily so his grandaughter should be doing it too" completely disregarding what goes behind it.
Force Lightning isn’t like other abilities that you might use / discover accidentally. Like a wild Force Wave or Storm because of your emotions or pain suddenly overwhelmed you. Or Force Push or Pull that you employed so absentmindedly that you don’t even remember how you did it. Or like projecting your own emotions and thoughts at others because they are so strong to hold back.
Force Lightning is a power that is very specific. One that you need to know is even possible before you can attempt it. And you got to draw that energy from somewhere least it starts to consume you. And even then you need practice as to direct the bolts, otherwise it will either just disperse around you or find the nearest ground.
That said, there are different forms of Force Lightning. You don’t have to pour your anger and hate into it unless the your point in using it is destructive.
This was great. I always enjoy detailed but concise breakdowns of writing and world building in a story.
This is basically the equivalent of a non force sensitive, accidentally using the force 😂
I agree 100% and think you've handled this very well.
Even if she could use it by accident, it blowing the ship up is ridiculous on its own. I guess we are supposed to believe that Yoda and Luke and everyone else hat has been hit by Force Lightning, are more durable than space ships.
The force lightning melted sidioses skin, now it explodes thing
There is also the factor that unless Rey was angry at the ship that she felt had Chewbacca the activation of force lightning was illogical. As you said, one has to have absolutely hatred from the individual, so who did Rey hate absolutely at that time, the pilot of that ship or Kylo? If it was Kylo then I'd understand if she activated it AT HIM but she didn't
I like the idea that the dark side is something that you give in too accept rather than just jumping into by accident. It really helps with the devil’s bargain that the dark side is.
One can call to the Dark Side but using Sith Lightning requires embracing it.
if that's the case then it would be more plausible that kylo ren would learn force lightning. kylo was trained by snoke in the comics and was shocked during TLJ it would make more sense that way. but you would have to develop kylo ren as a whole and make him train for it.
Yet another reason for Ahsoka to make some changes, while inside The World Between Worlds.
Star Wars: Multiverse of corporate Madness
@@pioxels1213 I swear: That would be a really good title for one of the (definitely) upcoming tell-all tomes about the fuckery that went on over at Lucasfilm Ltd., between 2012-2023 (when, hopefully, Kennedy and some of her crew depart from the company).
I'm proud to say I don't know what that is, and I never plan on finding out. ✌🐸
@@anthonyyoutubefan7567 oh you're hopeful man... but hey, my pipe dream is for Disney to start lose so much money on each new Star Wars project that they actually consider retconning everything they've done since purchasing or selling it off to someone else can. That's the only way we're ever going to get more Star Wars. Maybe. If not, the legends and the first two trilogies are really all we have imho. Funny thing is, I don't think that's much of a pipe dream. Not if things keep going the way they're going. In fact given the direction, maybe you're not too hopeful, but I thought that last time Kennedy's contract was up and they renewed it anyways so, I'm feeling pretty pessimistic that she'll be gone by 2023. Never forget, Solo lost money, and if you actually dig into the financials of each film, you might be surprised at how little they're making, especially when you account for the marketing costs associated with each movie. They play with the numbers, they often leave out how much they spent in marketing, so you kind of have to deconstruct all of that mess yourself if you want to research it, they're not doing as well as they want everyone to believe though.
@@draconianemanations2785 The thought (esp. by Hollywood insiders) has been that, by Fall 2023, after the release of Indy 5, she'll take a bow and leave (supposedly on a high note) before her contract is up...this way she won't have to renegotiate a renewal, since she'll be over 70 years old. The fact that Michelle Rejwan (a recommended hire from JJ Abrams, around the time of TROS) just stepped down from her Senior V.P. position for Lucasfilm Ltd., when many suspected/feared that she might be next in line to take over the company, speaks volumes over how much now is in flux over there, and how it's being reevaluated for the long haul. By 2024, not many of Kennedy's hires will most likely have long-standing homes at Lucasfilm Ltd. Some of her most significant ones (like Kiri Hart, Former Head of The Lucasfilm Story Group) have already long since departed, around the time of the ultimate grand failure of The ST. We have hope...
I think the writers should have shown Rei using some basic force powers to help her scavenge. Maybe a hard to reach part flys into her hand when she is struggling to extend the last few inches.
The problem I have with Rei is she went from not even believing the jedi exist to becoming a Jedi/Sith master in less than 6 months. It's all just so unreasonable based on the universe it is happening in.
The Force is the Force. Light Side and Dark Side is determined by which powers are considered harmful and which are beneficial. We saw lightning come from Yoda's fingertips too. So it's not a matter of what they did, it's a matter of what they used it for. I'd like to see more of the Gray Force Users.
Yoda used a different force ability to reflect the lightning
Despite the fact that I love the idea of "the force" as something of perspective, things indicate that it is not that way, the mere existence of the son, the daughter and the father, who exist both in legends and current line confirm this, in addition, luke himself says it in his academy, there is no multicolored force, there is the light side and the dark side that acts like a drug that pretends that you can overcome yourself but ends up corrupting you
Yoda used Force Judgement, not Force Lightning. They are similar but do different things
I actually like this video’s purpose more than your others. While I love learning about the vast lore of Star Wars, there aren’t enough people who have this level of Star Wars knowledge looking critically at the films.
The exact issue here, is that if there was anything established in the Star Wars Expanded Universe (novels/etc), that was all purged once Disney took over, indicating none of it would be canon.
Old sith- “It took decades to master but I’ve finally harnessed the power of lightning”
Rey- “hehe oops”
It's so infuriating, I can actually conjure force lightning just thinking about it.
She also ‘accidentally’ used force heal not long before, something that takes alot of lightside force power, and she just did it on a whim.
When Count Dooku says ‘I’ve become more powerful than any Jedi and unleashed his force lightning’ the retort now is, nah, that can be done by random untrained force sensitives too, they just need ‘special genes’.
How about that she's the only character who can't use the force too hard and kill themself.
Like we saw with Kylo and Luke.
Okay but she also used mind control without training too in the first film so yall acting like she didn’t already have natural talent
@@quancanon uh no, we are saying that ‘natural talent’ is bs.
Literally read the end of my comment saying you lol away any skills or training for her cause ‘lol special genes’. Its crappy ass writing for a character that deserved better.
@@jonsmith5058 I mean yea your right I kinda of wish she was a with turned jedi. That story line would’ve been better for her to be so powerful. She could’ve been a with that had years of training but didn’t came out of the darkness or something along those lines.
Another example of Rey being the classic Mary Sue. In the movies, as opposed to Legends, everyone capable of Force Lightning is directly tied to Palpatine, such as his students Dooku and, apparently, Snoke. This would definitely make it easier for Rey to learn, but Wave is %100 right that no one could figure it out on their own. The Sequels tried to say that Force Lightning is a Pokemon Evolution of Force Pull, which shows again how the writers of these movies failed to understand the setting they'd been allowed to play with.
It's the Holdo Maneuver all over again.
In practically every continuity it’s impossible to “accidentally” use any force ability because every single one requires training and knowledge of it, With the exception of telekinesis which is the most basic of all force abilities.
It sounds a lot like the cruciatis curse from Harry Potter. Even trying to use it, because he didn't really understand what he was trying to do nor actually wish that sort of harm on anyone, Harry was simply incapable of using the curse on Bellatrix even though he struck out with hatred.
Her feeling frustrated, even in the passion of the moment is not the same as the levels of hatred and anger required to project force lightning.
At most, if she had gotten angry enough, she would only have electrocuted herself to death with absolutely no training.
This is one of the many issues I have with Rey in general. It's all natural ability for her, she doesn't have to practice, learn, or grow, she just stumbles across her natural ability. It's a fantasy self-insert for people who don't want to put effort into earning talent. And if she had this natural ability she should have discovered it long before the trilogy took place, it's like she conveniently came across the force during the events of the movies. They should have made her struggle to figure it out similar to Luke Skywalker so her ability felt earned and organic and explains why she didn't know about it before.
Little Anie didn't need training to have precognition to seem he has impossibly fast reflexes for pod racing, and was enough of a mechanic to be a natural builder of his own pod racer, and C3PO.
@@dpsamu2000 People had an issue with that too. I didn't like that either.
Force Lightning is somewhat like the Cruciatus Curse in the Harry Potter universe in that you have to "mean it" and you have to experience the pain yourself.
I 100% agree. Even fiction should have rules, and fantasy worlds that break their own rules break the immersion. I hate it when you point out a continuity error or an in-universve rule being broken, and someone responds with "This universe has [insert fiction trope: dragons, lightsabers, wizards, sci-fi technology], and you think it's unrealistic that someone stranded in the dessert for 2 years didn't lose any weight despite eating?" Yes. I am not concerned with the dragons, because in this universe, dragons exist. But my immersion is completely ruined if you try to convince me that starvation is a serious issue and that being stranded someone will get you killed, all while someone can go with little to no food for years and not reflect it in his appearance.
Well put. Some abilities like THIS are more aimed an intentional vs setting off some kinda Force Bomb. Even IF she wanted to HATE Kylo to death in that scene.. everyone KNEW Ben WASN'T on the transport.. she didn't hate or even see anyone on the transport in question an definitely didn't Chewie. Whom she ALSO shoulda been able to sense perhaps without trying if he truly had been on that transport an died like first thought..this always seemed odd to me too. If THIS was gonna be just shown coming outta the blue she shoulda "accidentally" zapped anyone during some sorta fight after being a bit familiar with the Force an at all how it works
To be real I think dooku could always be classified as a dark jedi, he always wanted to push against the orders and explore every facet of the force which is something that they never wanted
The character’s weren’t terrible some of them would have been really cool to see more of how they were used is the problem they were just thrown in to show how strong Rey is
It only takes a brief glance at the lore to realize (or at least recognize) that force lightning is one of the most complicated of the force powers that could be used mid-combat, less like a superpower and more like a hex or spell.
There are a few instances of unintentional uses of force powers... Mainly those that are telekinetic in nature, and usually by young children letting their emotions get the better of them
That reminds me of the one time i accidentally build a spaceship because my granddad worked as an aeronautics engineer...good times.
I love your channel so much.
The lack of love in depth and continuity of so much lore, that made me fall in love with the series, turned me away from Star Wars after the Disney acquisition. Your respect of it, explanations and bringing people back together made me subscribe to this channel.
Force Judgement sounds a LOT like the power Starkiller used to defeat Palpatine in TFU novel (not sure if he does this in the game), except it's described as being more like golden flames...Is this a variant or does it have its own designation?
The Bible is truth. Please read at least Genesis Mathew and one book of the Bible you chose yourself. It is important that as you do you practice forgiveness. It’s an important part of what Jesus Christ taught that too many people forget. The process of genuinely meaning to forgive within your heart is the key that makes everything click. Start with your parents. They’re supposed to be the easiest, having loved you. There’s deep spiritual significance in that relationship to God. Looking inside to deal with your inner baggage and grow, that’s what shows the faith you need. Afterwards, break down before Jesus Christ and ask for forgiveness. Simply bare your soul in prayer. Take down those walls you’ve built up between you and God. Please, trust me. The Bible is truth. It’s just that you’ve got to take it seriously enough to do what Jesus Christ taught as an adult. Please, take your salvation seriously.
Jesus Christ is the way truth and life.
@@jamesmayle3787 just shut up nobody cares about religion in a star wars video
She used it because woman strong. I bet they had talked about she being stronger than Darth Vader
Just started the video, and I know very little about Star Wars lore. I'm honestly just marveling at how weird it is that she accidentally sends out (or "pushes out") lightning, while trying to PULL a ship. It seems much more logical that it's something she'd accidentally do when trying to push something. If anything, she should've accidentally started ripping it apart or crushing it.
Emerald lighting is probably the closest a Jedi could get to Sith lighting. The manifestation of righteous wrath.
What annoys me the most is that there is clearly a decent idea underneath the mess that is the sequels. Rey is a powerful force user who wants to do good, but is filled with passion. Luke, having read the ancient jedi texts has been thought that passion is dangerous, and scenes like the one in focus here are clearly made with this thought in mind. But instead of this conflict being at the core, it instead gets dissolved so completely until all that is left is "Rey is angry and Luke is scared". Its like, the originals showed Luke defeat Vader through his love for Leia, but also showed him defeat Palpatine by loving his father, and importantly showed that Vader loving his son was able to bring him back to the light. Already clearly stating that there is no clear segregation between the light and dark side. Then the prequels show Anakin's love for Padme lead to him being corrupted, all while Obi-Wan's love for Anakin blinds him to what he is turning into. Showing that if not carefully controlled, too much passion can blind the light side, and can lead even the kindest souls to the dark side. And then comes the sequels. The story it wants to tell seems to be that passion is dangerous, but one cannot hide from it. But its complete lack of understanding of the force just ruins any chance of it managing to tell that story. So instead we get the scene in question, where the intent might have been to show that "passion=dangerous", but it just fails at it. There is a story deep underneath the one we got that is in line with the themes of the previous movies. But ironically lack of passion for the project led to it just not working.
Thry should have just given rey a different colour of lightning, maybe like plo kloons yellow, it would work. It was also an accidental discharge but based in the light. Or they could have given rey pink lightning and instead of a *Fatality* , its called *Friendship*
Disney Star Wars must be de-canonized.
It's and never will be so get over it.
Indeed
@@K-dawg26 It is decanonized or that it never will, which one? Learn to speak before you run your mouth.
@@K-dawg26 nice grammar man
When I saw this scene in theatres, I just sighed and slumped further into my chair. It was just frustrating to see another misunderstanding, or rejection of care, of how the Force works at all.
A good point is bringing up the canon novel Jedi Lost, if Dooku was completely retconned to of used Electric Judgement then that would be rather cool, especially the idea of it being a slippery slope as it was in Legends. It would be nice if that ability returned to canon.
Yes, I do believe intent matters to the Force, always.
At times, an ability like that can spring put without any training, but there are certain factors that must be in play. Namely, a directed intent, an elevated emotional state, and a certain affinity to the Force itself.
Someone forgot to tell Stupendous Wave that Rey didn't "accidentally" use force lightning. Rey can do anything. She requires no master for tutoring. Even the telekinesis, she achieved that all on her own. She is the greatest Jedi and Sith combined, of all time.
She's the Mary Sue of Star Wars.
If you can't accidentally use force lightning and you have to be hit by it before using it then... Doesn't that mean that it would have been impossible for it to be discovered in the first place? Think about it, the first person to ever use it wouldn't have anyone who could teach them how to use it, they wouldn't know how to use it and they wouldn't have anyone who could use it on them. Are you really gonna pick apart this scene without recognising the MAJOR plot hole in your argument?
It makes total sense. Every episode elaborates on some aspect of The Force so there is no fixed standard that has to be adhered to. Rey learns Kylo fears he will never be as strong as Darth Vader after Kylo probes her mind and she senses his mind back because they happen, coincidentally, to be a part of a rare Force Dyad pairing. This Force Dyad is stronger than a familial Force Bond and it allows her to form a Force Connection with Kylo across interstellar distances. Kylo's glove becomes wet with Ahch-To rain which establishes that their Force Connection is capable of some form of matter transference. This then accounts for the Praetorian Guard's missing blade in Snoke's Throne Room fight as it is obvious that Rey used Force Teleportation to get rid of it rather than have her abdomen sliced open. Rey also performs a Force Kick similar to that done by Luke on the sand barge in _Return of the Jedi._
We see Snoke torture Kylo with Force Lightning, so he has been exposed to it, prior to Kylo's interrogation of her, where she absorbs his training from Luke and Snoke and then compels the guard to release her with Force Persuasion, an ability she got from Kylo's mind meeting with her own when they were part of a race Force Dyad pair. Rey's hatred for Kylo triggers the Force Lightning, and makes her character less of a Mary Sue as it is more credible that without training she would not be in full control over all her many Force Dyad absorbed abilities. Presumably, Rey learns to Force Heal from one of the sacred texts she stole from the first Jedi Temple, which explains why neither Anakin or Palpatine knew how to help Padmé as those texts had been left behind by the Jedi as they colonised the galaxy and created a new temple on Coruscant, forgetting much of their ancient mastery of The Force in the process. So, there is no inconsistency where Anakin should have been able to heal Padmé if Rey can heal a snake. Also, when Rey is dead Kylo would not have been able to Force Heal her back to life if he wasn't joined through their Force Dyad so he could also learn her abilities she had mastered whilst on the jungle world of Ajan Kloss for a year training under Jedi Leia Organa.
When you have magic in a story and allow it to be elaborated episode-by-episode you can end up with ridiculousness. Why does Obi-Wan Kenobi use Force Sprint in _The Phantom Menace_ some of the time, but not when he needs to get to Qui-Gon Jinn to help him in his fight with Darth Maul? Why is he normal speed? Why have him ever be seen using Force Sprint earlier as it just opens a plot hole later that needs a good explanation why Obi-Wan didn't Force Sprint there? Why doesn't Obi-Wan Kenobi use Force Sprint in his fight with Darth Vader in _A New Hope,_ after all it has been established he can do it in earlier episodes, and you can't even invoke the stamina argument as an excuse, which some people employ to forgive Kenobi for being "too tired" to Sprint towards Maul? Then you look at the criticism of the Holdo manoeuvre, and bear in mind that Rian Johnson moved house to be closer to the Lucasfilm Story Group so he could ask them lore questions like this and they said there was nothing wrong with him having Amilyn do this. Well, there isn't. It would work. There isn't a problem, or rather the problem that exists has always been there. The tech of hyperspace travel has always been open to be weaponised from the outset, with no work being done to establish why not. At least in Frank Herbert's _DUNE_ where Lucas stole a lot of his ideas it is made clear that nuclear weapons are banned, AIs are banned, and people fight with close quarter bladed weapons because firing lasers at personal shields causes massive explosions. This is all arguably stupid: the Harkonnens are evil enough to use atomics, the Atredies may have anticipated the Harkonnen strategies if they had secretly kept an AI around to advise them rather than a useless Mentat, why aren't people throwing weighted nets over those in personal shields, or Columbian bolas? The thing is an effort is made to explain why not, which helps the fiction. None was made with Hyperspace, as it was just a means to an end to get the story from planet to planet. The truth is the audience agree to suspend their disbelief in silly magic and preposterous physics in order to have a fun romantic adventure which echoes the structure of the Hero's Journey common to many ancient myths and legends. It is a synthetic monomyth. It isn't science fiction.
That’s a lot of ex post facto reasoning you got there. Using force teleport to explain away the disappearing dagger like it was all part of the plan is as ridiculous as coming up with a whole story to explain the stormtrooper bonking his head on accident in A New Hope. It’s just a continuity error, and pretending it’s otherwise is delusional.
@@Zarastro54 The Stormtrooper bonking his head and Luke Skywalker's hair being dry after escaping the trash compactor are not related to the Force. Rey ought to be dirtier on the muddy jungle planet of Ajan Kloss than she was on the arid desert planet of Jakku, but that can be explained by her increasing mastery of the Force as Rey clothes get ever more white as the series goes on as she is using Force Push to expel the dirt particles from her clothes. Luke has yet to meet Yoda in _A New Hope_ so he can't have used the Force to expel water from his hair in the short amount of time he is offscreen following on from when he was underwater in the trash compactor.
Stormtroopers are consistently incompetent, not merely missing Luke when he escapes the Death Star, as Darth Vader wants him to so that the tracker placed on the Millennium Falcon will lead the Empire to the hidden location of the Rebel Base on the fourth moon of the gas giant Yavin, but then Leia is incompetent too because she suspects that their escape was too easy and doesn't switch ships before returning to Yavin 4. The Empire is then incompetent for exiting Hyperspace with Yavin in the way of them being able to fire at Yavin 4 immediately. This gives the Rebellion time to get their X-wings into space and for Rogue Squadron to destroy the super weapon before it has line of sight on Yavin 4.
You can argue that this incompetence is actually due to Marsha Lucas changing the ending of the film in the editing suite and making it feel more tense by inserting a couple of graphics of the Death Star progressively moving into the position it ought to have navigated through Hyperspace to had it been piloted by anyone competent. We see in all of the Prequel films that every arrival at a planet is never blocked by another celestial body. The only exception to this is Obi-Wan Kenobi following Jango Fett to Geonosis and having to follow him into the planet's rings. So, you could argue that Marsha Lucas introduced a plot hole (i.e. "Why are the Empire terrible navigators?") when if they were competent they would have been able to exit Hyperspace any number of places and get direct line of sight on Yavin's fourth moon and destroy it before Rogue Squadron can destroy them. Yet, the thing about plot holes is that they don't matter that much if they are few in number and the audience's emotional engagement with the characters overrides their rational minds. If the audience gets bored, due to characterisation not being compelling, their rational minds will start to notice the plot holes in _The Last Jedi_ and realise there are an awful lot of them, and become detached from the experience, and ultimately cease suspending their disbelief as the fictional world has not made sufficient effort to be consistent within its own terms. If the characters were better, no one would care about the missing blade in the Throne Room fight, and anyone who tried to cite it as a flaw would be met by fans of the film's good character arcs who were keen to expand the Force to explain away these flaws. If you don't want fans to be able to do this (and I know Rian Johnson admitted this was a mistake in the choreography which was compounded by the second blade not being completely digitally erased during post production), then only see films that don't make use of magic in their stories. _Star Wars_ has magic, and has elaborated on what the Force can do for you in each of the George Lucas episodes, so there is no limit to Disney building upon that further in their Sequels and spin-off films and TV series. Some authors of fantasy novels work out in advance the limits of their magic system (e.g. basing everything on the four elements) and have mages who know all that there is to know and not have any new magical abilities thrown in later on, so when readers see a situation unfold they can guess what magic will be used by a character with certain knowledge of specific spells with a given mana level when they are uninjured and not in such emotional turmoil that it is impossible for them to focus. This can make these books fun to read as the reader can think "Oh, Bill is going to try this now" and be proven correct, and feel pleased that they are really understanding the rules of this world. In comparison to this, _Star Wars_ is trash and has always been trash. Don't get angry because I am just pointing out that truth. When Rian Johnson says the second blade was a mistake he is to be ignored as cinema goers can't be expected to read all about the production of the movie they are about to see and therefore tell what to ignore as a flaw and not misattribute as an example of a Force Ability. I didn't notice the flaws in the Throne Room fight, and that was one of only two parts of the movie I actually liked. I also liked Paige Tico at the beginning. I hated everything else.
I'm writing a Star Wars fan fic, called Into the Grey. They main focus is my OC, Ruthless Zunro, a purple skinned Dathomirian raised on Kamino. He's about ten years younger than AOTC Anakin. He was unknowingly, even to himself, very gifted in the force. He was able to rival master Jedi after a couple weeks of training. Then he gets his first mission. Saving Anakin, Padme and Obi Wan on Geonosios with his master, Mace Windu. Eventually, he gets to face Count Dooku. When he witnessed Count Dooku use force lightning on Yoda, he thought he could do the same. Keep in mind, Zunro also feels no emotion. He points a hand out towards Dooku and purple electricity bursts from his finger tips for a second. Then he faints. What's interesting is that the spot where his lightning struck near Dooku was ice cold to the touch.
I don't have a name for this ability yet.
Is there something like cold lightning in Star Wars lore?
I took issue with this scene as well and i love the way you explained why it was wrong.
There was something intriguing to do with Rey and the dark side but they missed it. They went in this direction with Reva as well but still it doesn't make sense. It doesn't bother me if Rey is extremely powerful, unnaturally so, and I was okay with this dyad idea. But it has to make sense. They could have given her experiences with Sidious in the past, for one. But to do that they'd have to have known her backstory before they started filming. I do think there's a bit of a loophole with children and the dark side. Small children can hate innocently. Anyway I think we have to use the dyad to explain it. Rey and Kylo are linked and through the link insane powers are possible. Since one is dark and the other light they can access abilities in opposition to their alignment through the alignment of the other. They can pull knowledge from one another and there is room for spontaneity (force healing, force lightening). It's like when Rey accesses the dark side it's accessing a whole greater than her and Kylo and out of this horrors can arise. But again, it needs to make sense.
I thought it happened because she was connected to an unstable dark side user through the force, not because she accidentally accessed the dark side herself.
So then why was anakin never able to do that
Was it because lucas didn’t bring up that idea or was it because anakin refused to be a dark side user what are the rules for it
It’s why the rules was there to begin with that’s the issue
Once the rules are broken everything falls apart
Why wasn’t obiwan able to force heal qui gon etc…
@@Zjonishealing ... Because I was talking about when she accidentally used Force Lightning and not when she intentionally used Force healing and I provided no details or explanation for her aptitude with a new Force power (an old ones if you factor in the games and non-cannon novels) and in fact didn't even address it?
@@andrewgibson7330 I used that as a side not I understand what you’re talking about
What I had said was by your logic anakin would have accidentally used force lightning also as palpatine would have constantly been connected to him
Could it have been becuase Lucas didn’t think of it and Disney made it up
Hence why I brought up the force healing
When you add new rules it makes older episodes seem stupid as fuck which is why I stated then why didn’t obi wan just use force healing
You see what I’m getting at
@@Zjonishealing no. Lore clearly established that Rey and Spanky McEmoPants were a force Dyad. Anakin and Palpatine were not.
@@andrewgibson7330 ooooo fair enough that makes sense
So I’m other words Disney plot convenience
Gotcha
Rian Johnson really tried to suggest that Rey has hereditary dark side powers because of being Palpatine's granddaughter
I still feel horrible to this day for chuckling in theatres about what was thought of as Chewbacca’s death, the string of events was so nuts that I couldn’t believe what I was looking at.😂
You know, Jar-Jar isn’t so bad after all… We truly did take George for granted…
The "Force" as a whole is neutral with life and especially sentiment tending to pull or choosing to pull one way or another and most mindsets can see things only in black and white and can't walk the grey
Jedi can use force lightning,its just that the ability is based in all the negative emotions that swing you into the dark side unchecked as sometimes its "easier" to go Bezerk and unleash your fury(Luke's sudden buff vs Vader from Rage)
"That'll look cool" and "that sounds woke enough" were the only bars set for the sequels.
It’s truly mesmerising when people say that we’ll appreciate the sequels in 15 years time and the prequels were equally as hated. There was certainly disappointment in regards to how child friendly and political the prequels were but IMO they’ve always been brilliant and iconic. Of course they have their flaws but they were magical and only got better over time. The sequels however are a complete shit show of a mess and proves that the Star Wars name alone cannot carry a movie, let alone a trilogy. Disney themselves know how miserably they failed in continuing Lucas’ legacy.
They never should have touched the Skywalker saga, especially without any preparation.
As soon as he started describing what Force Lightning was and how to use it, I could instantly see the problem
Ray could have used Force lightning because of her diet with Kilo rens whose allegiance is in the dark side of the force and due to the diet if she could have an intentionally used Force lightning out of kylo ren's emotions
I don’t think taking force lightning into you is cannon anymore
Which was a stupid concept any way.
By that logic force lightning shouldn’t even be possible since the very first person to ever have learned the ability would have no person to ever have struck him with force lightning so with this logic how is anyone able to use it in the first place?
And you're just realizing this now? it's just a result of bad writing extremely bad writing
This always annoyed me!!!
Honestly sick and tired of Rey "Mary Sue" just mastering incredibly advanced things (flying ships she has only looked at so far, shooting a blaster with marksman precision, using a lightsaber, using Force abilities on Sith Lord/Jedi Master levels, etc.) almost instantly because the writers need her to be the perfect hero in every frame she's in. As if they're afraid of showing a female character that's not perfectly in control and competent at all times... Luke, with the lineage of Anakin Skywalker, had to concentrate like mad just to Force pull his lightsaber or move some rocks around. Yes, during his training, but he had to struggle to get to where he was at the end, whereas Rey is just handed these things.
Well one way perhaps to reconcile this accident is the fact that one point in the cannon a Sith or someone inclined towards the dark side discovered that they can do this as well accidently. Are you able to make a video on the force user who discovered force lighting and how it was discovered? Compare that maybe to why Rey accidently doing it is not the same?
She's not my Skywalker 😂
I agree with your point that story rules need to exist and be maintained.
Rey becoming a Jedi master in the span of a week is infuriating in itself
Another reason is that there are only 6 Star Wars movies. No more, no less.
This edit is insane!!
I hope this is the new hire.
8:25 what?!
I thought we were talking about Rey.
Is it Force lightning, Sith Lightning or Force Judgement?
You speak of 3 different forms of lightning but only address two.