The Book Club: The Pilgrim's Progress by John Bunyan with Allie Stucky | The Book Club
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ม.ค. 2023
- Christians have been mocked, humiliated, and persecuted for their faith for hundreds of years. The Pilgrim’s Progress, written by Puritan preacher John Bunyan while he was in prison for holding religious services, is an encouraging reminder that difficulties and hardships are part and parcel with a life of faith. Allie Stuckey joins Michael Knowles to discuss how this seminal 17th-century work can embolden and strengthen Christians to endure the hardships of today.
#bookclub #prageru
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I am from Lima, Peru, and here, with great respect, idolatry abounds in Catholicism: images are worshiped everywhere, every weekend at religious festivals they get drunk, I had a call in 2012, since which time I have been self-taught in the Bible and I now became a Calvinist Christian, now my life has more meaning, purpose and above all hope in my Lord. I am definitely going to start and finish reading this book today.
You are on the right path. Also read Calvin's Institute if you haven't already. Doubtless the theologian whose views most closely align to those of Christ and the apostles.
Catholics ideally do not worship images, and they certainly are not encouraged to get drunk at religious functions. Sounds like your particular congregation went bad. Sorry that happened to you, but don't use that experience to accuse the entire Church of idolatry.
Catholic can’t have statues because we worship them, but protestants can have the nativity scene with baby Jesus, Mary, and Joseph. Status are considered to be a presentation for the 40,000 + protestants denominations out there, it’s also a representation for Catholics.
It's unfortunate you had such a bad experience. All of us are definitely sinners, Christians included, and stray and do bad things and follow our faith imperfectly - however I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater, and wouldn't judge a religion by the sins of its followers, but instead by the truth of its teachings - I guarantee you you will find just as much pride, hypocrisy, lip-service, idolatry, and moral failure among Calvinists as you will among Catholics. Trying to avoid negativity or sin in a Christian community is a hopeless endeavor, as the Christian religion is literally for the broken and the lost to become found and saved. It'd roughly be analogous to looking for a hospital with no sick or injured people, which is the purported goal of medicine itself. We go to the hospital because we are sick, and we come to the church because we are broken. Worshipping statues and idolatry are heresies in the Catholic church, and no such practice has ever been condoned by it, as the catechism states. If it is your home faith, I would recommend attempting to reconcile with her, otherwise you may place yourself in a position of transitioning churches or faiths every time a disillusionment or trial occurs. God will use any means to save you or anyone, but it is better to rest in your home He provided than calling upon God's grace to meet you outside of it. As Jesus said to the tempter, it is not wise to put excessive demands upon God's grace, even if He will give it.
It must be noted that John Bunyan was told that at any given time he could be let out of the prison if he agreed not to preach the Gospel of Jesus, and his cell door was open virtually every day of the 12 years he spent in prison as a temptation for him to give up preaching the Gospel of Jesus.
That as far as I'm concerned is the definition of commitment to one's convictions and beliefs, an excellent example towards the dedication of upholding the truth no matter the costs.
Jesus Christ Almighty God bless you all
I hadn’t heard this. How powerful
We are doing this book study with our ladies group! Wow, I'm excited that you guys are promoting this!
What wonderful, godly insights Allie. Thank you for faithfully and unhesitatingly sharing the truth according to God’s Word.
She doesn't
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I’d like for Knowles to read our 1689 Baptist confession
Michael, as my favorite papist outside of members of my own family, this former Catholic now reformed Protestant finds your take on this very refreshing. Thank you for the work you do.
You can read John Bunyan court transcript when he was arrested. It’s fantastic!
My favorite passage from PP is the crossing of the river and entering of heaven of Mr Valiant for Truth
Absolutely nailed it Allie! Great explanation of the underlying Protestant story of Pilgrim’s progress.
One of my favorite books, my kids love it, I read the ilustrated version.
One of my fave books with some great people!!
Thank you Michael Knowles! One of my favorite books of all time. I am thankful for the intelligent, encouraging and edifying conversation you had with Allie Stucky...I will continue to follow this segment of Prager U. I truly thank God you reviewed this book. Keep it up.
My teacher read us this book when I was in 5th grade (Christian school). I thought it was really boring back then, but I also was absent when he started the story, so I was lost anyway. Now I find it fascinating.
One of the most encouraging and helpful books I've ever read - great discussion ♡
Excellent discussion! Thank you
Literary classic. To appreciate if fully, best to have read the Bible and understand what it means to be a Christian, and that life journey.
I have Pilgrim's Progress on the sofa, next to me! Thanks for the insight...my copy is from the 1870's...a youngster as this book goes!
BTW...I read somewhere that Charles Spurgeon said of Bunyan, "...Prick him anywhere and he bleeds Bibline..."
Super cool!
Thank you for hosting Allie Beth Stuckley for this conversation. I listen to her podcast a few times each week, never this book club. Great partnership on an incredible book.
We watched a modern day drama called "Pilgrim" last year. Find it and go see it.
Does Allie Beth Stuckey Suckey??
@19:50 regarding the character in the book named Atheist and his response of laughter:
"When a wise person has a controversy with a foolish person, The foolish person either rages or laughs" (Proverbs 29:9)
If you do Pilgrim's Progress on the Book Club, you have to read Bunyan's other fiction novel "The Holy War" sometime!📘
Thanks, guys! That was amazing.
My 2 literally favourite podcasters !!!
They're really terrible people who take big oil company money and spread lies and want theocracy. Idk why you'd choose these ones.
@@Athetos861 As if wanting a theocracy is bad, please. Democracy is the most evil system of government in existence.
@@Athetos861 Because they are good people with good conservative values and who talk publicly about God ...
@@TheNabOwnzz We don't have democracy the technical correct term is plutonomy. God has been dead for some time in the scientific community overall. It has been 12 days so I'm unsure if You're being sarcastic. Forgive.
I love the "book club 💙 "..keep it up..!! inspires me with much love for good/healthy books that motivates the soul ❤️
So glad I read this book. It comes to mind very often in day to day living.
So happy to have found this episode. I am planning on doing a read aloud of this book with my kiddos over the summer and from what I remember of the story (it's been many years since I have read it) I feel having them watch this before reading the book with help with their understanding of some of the specifics.
You might not have heard of the second-most sold and translated work of Christianity after the Bible… It’s The Imitation of Christ, written by the medieval monk Thomas à Kempis (1380-1471).
At times God can appear to be distant and not there. But these are the times you have to keep putting God first. The bible reflects this several times throughout. The narrow road is not an easy one. But God is there.
I wonder how much imprisonment has affected John Bonyen’s idea of loneliness as a Christian.
I have read that book after “The word on fire Bible - The gospels” by Bishop Robert Barron.
I would say that your knock on the book as being an overly lonely depiction of the Christian life may be helped by understanding that the book has been seen by many as being biographical of the life of Bunyan himself.
Great book. I loved it.
The Pilgrim's Progress by John Bunyan is one of my favorite books as well! 😊 It is arguably the very first novel. For example, see Robert McCrum rankings of the best 100 novels in The Guardian. And read C.S. Lewis's essay "The Vision of John Bunyan" for an intriguing review as well as praise for Bunyan's literary genius despite Bunyan having no formal education and only being a simple "tinker" in his life. One of the great Puritan theologians, John Owen, said of Bunyan in response to King Charles II scoffing at Bunyan's preaching: "Could I possess the tinker's abilities, please your majesty, I would gladly relinquish all my learning.”
I couldn't get through it by reading it. But I've been through it several times as an audiobook. Everybody should go through this book a couple times, even if you have to find a different way to do it.
Our family has loved this book. Also our church community has done a VBS with that being the theme.
Allie, you are such a comfort in my life. thank you.
This book was second in a list of 30 or so novels that I am working through compiled by Susan Wise Bauer in her book "The Well-Educated Mind." The books are listed in chronological order, and it's fascinating watching how the novel transforms as an art form beginning "officially" with Don Quixote and ending with authors like Cormac McCarthy.
Super! Thanks Michael and Allie.
To Michael Knowles…have you considered doing an episode along the lines of “10 Must Read Novels?” I am always interested in recommendations.
Other Bible based books that sold plenty include Bible Concordances, Bible Dictionaries, Bible commentaries, Bible Handbooks, Christian song books also called hymnals, fictional books about Jesus, Moses, King David, Solomon, Samson and other bible characters do also. Also, Graphic novels based on Bible stories and characters, also picture books with stories made for children based on the bible.
AS to whether "Christian" abandoned his wife and children, we must remember that this is an allegory, a dream. Remembering this enables us to imagine that "Christian" in his own real life, would not abandon his wife and children geographically, meaning literally. His leaving his family is speaking of his "spiritual journey." Thus you did well to mention Christ's admonition that those who will not forsake others who will not come along, does not mean that we do not love them or continue to take care of them, but we must "forsake them" in a spiritual sense. We must go on our journey to which we have been called.. It is not abandonment physically, it is leadership spiritually. In spirit we move on; in body, we will be home for supper, play with our children and minister to our wives.
What PP was for me was a story representing the happenings of a new Christian. It's not that all of the characters or " help " were not always there but when we need help it's not always the same help we need. And though Christian physically left his wife and children, in terms of reality I think a man " leaving" is the action of a man whom God has called. If the family isn't saved then the husband leaving represents repentance and leaving the world behind and seeking God. The husband is still there still married still engaged but with his mind and heart looking to God, seeking Him and headed in that direction. A lot of couples who are not saved then one of the spouses gets saved, often describe the spouse who get saved as leaving though still physically present. Everybody should read Pilgrim's Progress.
I love this book
@8:00, brings me to tears. so beautiful
The great reformed Baptist himself!
Just a thought but could Knowles bring someone like Dr Tom hicks to discuss the great doctrine of justification?
Just started reading this book. and it is so painful I can hardly read it. So grateful to know from Allie that possibly the "Holy Spirit is not with him".....love love that.
A fantastic read. I tried a modern English version of this once, but it was a bad job at translation. I've read the first volume three times, and the 2nd once. Both are good. In some ways the 2nd volume (with his wife) is better.
2nd after the Bible: “My Imitation of Christ” by Thomas á Kempis
an awsome book, read it every year during lent
Great review! Thank you so much for covering The Pilgrim's Progress, which would be my second choice for a review! But my main request would be the Satyricon by Petronius Arbiter! Please! Please, would you please talk about this ancient book? Pwease?
So interesting even back then. Always blows my mind how rabid athiests are though they love to exlaim "why do you even care!" 🤯🤡
No, its good to realize Christ was there but unnoticed.
7:00 God works for glory of all
18:47 false witness
27:10 right to be philigrim, how monster how awful can take their promise from them. Dont wallow in despair, you can have identity
I haven't read the book, but it sounds like a worthwhile read. The only thing that I'd disagree with is Allie's disagreement. The Christian life can, in fact, be very lonely at times. I'm obviously speaking from personal experience, but I have, and am currently, going through times where God feels very distant or far off. I guess the question would be this: Is the book being told from "our" perspective, or is it more so based on the reality of things? 🤔
Love thy neighbor and pray for them that despise you are taught in other bible verses.
I also enjoyed the biography about his brother Paul.
The original version of this is in some funky English. I highly recommend buying both the original and the updated versions. Cannot recommend this book highly enough. Liam neeson’s first movie role was in the original film as evangelist
I haven't read this book. Do you recommend reading the book before watching the Book Club videos to get more out of it?
Pretty sure Confessions by St. Augustin is the best selling Christian book besides the Bible. He also might be the most divisive theologian of all time
I am actually facilitating a study on this book at my church. I did want to have a movie event at the conclusion. Which one do you consider as the best ?
Ralph Vaughan Williams OPERA is the easiest way into this.
Considering the track record of conservative Christians and Catholics Cuties would be apropos.
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This book sounds super cute.
End of age: via the Eucharist, mainly.
I disagree a bit with her 'con'. Although the Father is always with us, WE are currently stuck in the physical with physical senses that can't 'see' the spiritual. So though the Father is here and in fact surrounds us at every moment... to us it is as if He is not. We have to rely on faith that He has not actually abandoned us. Didn't even Jesus of Nazareth who was blessed with the ability to converse two-ways with God cry out at the end on the crucifixion cross that he had been abandoned? If Pilgrim had seen our Comforter at all times then it wouldn't have been much of a hard journey.
Christ cried out of human weakness on account of the pain He suffered, NOT because He thought God had truly abandoned Him. Hence He says "MY God".
The lack of the Holy spirit's presence is not typical of Puritans. I think that is a great disservice to the puritans. Actually read things like Jonathan Edwards, Religious Affections and you'll see this was not typical of the Puritan writings.
Los Angeles is watching!
Who gave you a license to do Evo Austin and Luke Francis? Susan Lindig? Larry Lindig
The Great Controversy is another great book. You should definitely add it to your list. Anyways, it's not that God, in the person of the Father, Son or Holy Spirit comes in and out of Christian's life; in the valley of the shadow of death, he had the sword which is the word of God, Jesus. When you look closely because Christ was inn him he could've put on Christ which is the whole armour. God showed Himself outside of Christian in the form of a person when Christian allowed himself to be inhabited by fear or doubt or other temptations, however, when he was firm in his faith it was when Christ was in him. Christians are never alone. I hope I'll always remember that myself🙏
Whoa. I read this recently and totally missed the anti-Catholic bias.
Bunyan was a Puritan. What did you expect?
@@Tolstoy111 I never knew there was such a deep divide :)
In Calvin's Geneva, even complimenting the Pope was illegal. These two groups fought long bloody wars.@@ThomasMusings
17th, 17 January 2023
Pilgrims Progress was written by CS Lewis
Google is your friend.
Very beautiful episode , so enlightening . I’m muslim and I relate to this book . Its true that we are on pilgrimage in this life and facing many troubles but Allah ( god ) is with us and every time that we face troubles make us closer to him. This life is temporary. I’m really surprised that many Christians are facing troubles with the new tolerance that you mentioned, I thought that all of Americans and Europeans agree to that mind . You really opened my eyes that this is because of the media . Even here in Middle East , we are facing the same problems with tolerance, thanks . I’m from Iraq
Catholicism was attacked for speaking on sacrifice in our lives. I think she really doesnt know the history fully. But, Saints have always spoke of sanctification.
I like Allie overall but you are correct. She is very ignorant about Catholicism and Church history.
Liars. Stop changing who wrote books!
“In one day he ended every future opportunity that doesn’t include speaking engagements at the local proud boys chapter,” (referring to President Trump)
“And all of us that didn’t have jobs lined up will be perpetually unemployed. We all look like domestic terrorists now.” Hope Hicks
Screwing over your own content creators. I hope they read there contracts. 🙏
Why should I want to read The Pilgrim's Progress"??
There are literally hundreds of books greater than "Pilgrim's Progress"!!
Have you ever read Tom Clancy;Clive Cussler;Larry McMurtry??.
All greater writers than this boring assed book!!
OK
2nd most read book in the World. Next to the bible.
Because it’s one of the most influential texts in history.
@@Tolstoy111 Really??What about Larry Mc.Murtry's "Lonesome Dove"??
Lot more entertaining than "The Pilgrim's Progress"!!
@John Patterson you must see and be warned of judgement and wrath to come, put off your entertainment pursuits, repent and flee to Christ for mercy and forgiveness, friend.
@@mikeconnor4736 First of all I'ma Christian.Iaccepted Jrsus 35 years ago.
But unlike you I'm not a wild eyed fundzvangdlical.
Talking about "putting off my entertainment pursuits",you beleive everything a Televangelist tells you!!
My wife and I are planning on seeing "80 for Brady" tonight.
If it bothers you,tough!!!
The description lol
"Christians have been mocked, humiliated, and persecuted for their faith for hundreds of years."
Pretty much the most protected group complaining about their past and exaggerating while actual oppressed groups still suffer the ramifications of impaired social mobility. Mocking Christians is not wrong, if they are going around saying silly things, which they often do. Humiliation is open ended. It sort of implies you got rekt in debate by the four Horsemen. As far as persecution almost every group faces that or has faced that. Currently LGBT and non-white people are discriminated against systemically. More notable is low income people are automatically discriminated against via capitalism, the system with built in wealth inequality, a precondition for some of the worst physical, mental and social afflictions on Earth. Keep taking the corporate pill tho.
ps tucker got wrecked by the Satanist on his own show lol
Go watch the Young Turks, crybaby 🙄😂🤣
Bunk.
Bunk.
You should read up what's happening to Christians worldwide. It's horrific.
Buzzword bingo
The same Allie Stuck-up who shamed all men years ago.
good book. Spugeon read it over a hundred of times. The audibook is riveting ( www.youtube.com/@ChristisLord ). My second time through.