What I have seen and confirmed with many Catholic converts is when Sacred Tradition (not traditions of men) and the authority of the Church are taken away from the Bible, it's too difficult to hold up the authority of Scripture without this structure. I know dear friends in evangelical Protestantism that have been fighting for years to uphold the authority of Scripture and basic Christian morals. This has been very difficult to do this without a valid historic priesthood and the Canon law of the Church to exercise authority when needed. Essentially, when there is significant disagreement in Protestantism and no mechanism to resolve it, there are splits equaling 30,000 denominations. Honestly as someone who didn't convert from a Protestant church (came from a religious community which is related to theosophy, a blend of Eastern thought, western esoteric thought, and Christianity), I thought about conversion quite differently. Protestant converts do seem primarily concerned with authority and the origins of the Bible.....that isn't necessarily the primary concern of other converts (or perhaps we just express it differently) I could certainly see how this would be true. When I finally understood that Scripture birthed out of Sacred Tradition (not traditions of men), then I realized how important the writings of the Church Fathers were. Without them, we wouldn't have the Bible. I think many Protestant groups wholly discount sacred tradition, but there are a few that hold to it such as traditional Anglicans, some Lutherans, and some Methodists. Of course, it varies how much it is embraced and there is some cherry-picking that goes on. But, I think you are right that without a strong emphasis on patristic thought there is absolutely NO way to know for sure how the primitive church implemented the Bible. Pastor Stanley Garland. I learned from several Catholic Bible scholars that even the Jewish Canon of the Bible was not fully closed until 95 AD although the early Jewish Christians had most of the Old Testament memorized by the time Jesus came. The Gospel of John wasn't even written until 100 AD. The first closing of the New Testament Canon happened by 387 AD. The early Christians did not have Bibles. They had to depend on Oral Tradition (Sacred Tradition, not traditions of men) to know what to believe and how to live. Even the Bible itself says to hold fast to the traditions you are taught both written and oral. My post about Sacred Tradition gives some quotes from the Church Fathers/Councils and the corresponding Scriptures. yes, very true and most early Christians did not have all the books that we have consolidated together for easy reference. Many only had a few books in their location, which made oral tradition all the more important. We are very blessed and indebted to the councils for bringing all the sacred scriptures together for us and for working out the cannon. Pastor, Stanley. This is an excellent video about the origin of the Bible from a Catholic Bible scholar, Dr. Brant Pitre. Have a blessed day m.th-cam.com/video/0k0UV2Zi5X0/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/0k0UV2Zi5X0/w-d-xo.html
Interesting how in 5+ minutes Calvin's bold stance against the pagan heliocentric (spinning globe, non firmament-outer space) deception wasn't mentioned.
His statements on the matter consist of a few words of many many thousands so they certainly don't warrant inclusion. Also, we have little doubt that if he lived today he not be anti-heliocentric, but would recognize the Bible in no way contradicts the scientific view of the orbits of the planets.
@@DiscerningHistory Wrong my friend. Read all 200 some odd verses about scriptural cosmology. Scripture never supports orbits, space, other planets, a globe, etc... This is all vain Greek philosophy.
Calvin doesn’t seem to realize that doctrine isn’t about men figuring out how God wants to apply his sovereignty. He gave Calvin the freewill to get it wrong.
The reformation was a continuation of Catholicism as Luther continued to teach infant water baptism as a requirement for salvaiton which attacks the gospel of Christ.. Calvin also taught infant water baptism as a means to salvaiton so the reformation and protestantism is just one a daughter of the Catholic harlot.. One must simply believe the gospel according to the scriptures in order to receive remission of sins the free gift of eternal life.. 1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph @, John @ KJV
TRUE, the very reason the Mother Harlot is a 'MOTHER', she birthed other little harlots ... protestants and orthodox split offs. yliyahmessagetime.wordpress.com/2020/08/25/the-man-of-sin-already-sits-in-the-temple/ yliyahmessagetime.wordpress.com/2018/04/03/horae-apocalypticae-free-pdf-and-historicism-eschatology-videos/
Yeah but show me a cheap faith that does not santifie and you are yet in your sins. That antinomian Gospel born in hell of easy believing without a cross is false and heretical. Jesus Christ will say one day, depart from me you that work lawlessness. So in love I admonish for the love of your soul and mine. Paul said, we were slaves of sins and now have become slaves of righteousness by grace through the Holy spirit. Also it is written, false teachers will deny the Lord that bought them with blood. We are someones slaves when one buy us with a high price. So also that antinomian Gospel is from hell.
I feel like Calvin gets kind of a bum rap these days, largely due to the controversial pre-determination theology. That's kind of unfair though due to that only being one part of his ideas, and the fact that he helped dismantle the corrupt overreaches of the Catholic church, translate the bible to the masses, and reminded the church the importance of simplicity in and humility in worship.
Calvin's good testimonies were revealed but not in John Calvin masterminded the death of his old college buddy Michael Servetus, a premeditated act of murderous hatred for which he showed no remorse. Calvin actually boasted of his evil deed. A few questions I leave with Calvinists believers: If Jesus was someone who ruled with a sword or an iron hand, would you still follow him? Do you think God approved of Calvin’s tactics on imposing his faith on others? What is your idea of a good spiritual leader and do you think John Calvin was one?
These verses should answer some of your questions: "Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel." Psalm 2:8-9 "6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; 7 Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth; 8 Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: 9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. 10 And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the Lord thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage. 11 And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this is among you. 12 If thou shalt hear say in one of thy cities, which the Lord thy God hath given thee to dwell there, saying, 13 Certain men, the children of Belial, are gone out from among you, and have withdrawn the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which ye have not known; 14 Then shalt thou enquire, and make search, and ask diligently; and, behold, if it be truth, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought among you; 15 Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword. 16 And thou shalt gather all the spoil of it into the midst of the street thereof, and shalt burn with fire the city, and all the spoil thereof every whit, for the Lord thy God: and it shall be an heap for ever; it shall not be built again. " Deuteronomy 13:6-13
@@93556108 Under the Old Testament law, anyone who preached deviation from true religion was given the death penalty. That is why Geneva executed Servetus for heresy.
@@JoshuaHorn Sorry I missed out my reply to your comments. For your information, the Mosaic Law of the Old Testament was written for the chosen people of Israel. Let me make a distinction between how the Israelites were chosen then and how we as Christians are chosen now because it relates to the purpose of the Law and how we apply it today. Israel was chosen for a purpose - Genesis 12:1-3. They were God's instruments to accomplish a plan of rescue for the world: God becoming man as a member of the Jewish race and dying on the cross for man's crimes against God. They were not chosen to be saved, rather they were chosen to be used to accomplish God’s plan of salvation. It secured a salvation plan for the world, and whether they individually participated in it or not was another question. Christians are the chosen in the sense that those who are in Christ, putting their trust in Him, are the ones that benefitted from that plan of salvation God was working out through Israel. We put our confidence in Him, so we are chosen regarding salvation. The Mosaic Covenant is a treaty God made with the Jews, the nation of Israel. What was the point of the book of Deuteronomy? Deuteronomy is the second time the law is given. It is first given in Exodus when Moses is at Mount Sinai. There’s 40 years of wandering and the first generation dies away. Then there’s a new generation that takes the land under Joshua. Before Moses dies he gives that same law again a second time in Deuteronomy to the new generation that is now meant to take the land and live according to this law as a nation. The important thing is that this is an agreement that God made with Israel. It is not an agreement God made with anyone else. The Mosaic contract is no longer in force. It has been replaced for everyone, including Jews, by the new contract (Hebrews 8:13). The new contract is a new enterprise. Gentiles were never under the old contract. Now, Jews and Gentiles alike who put their faith in Jesus are under the new contract. Does that mean we can go around murdering people because we’re not under the Mosaic Law? No. The obligation not to murder is universal and should be in any law. Just as our law does, the Mosaic Law included universal moral principles. So we are obligated to follow those moral rules, not in virtue of them being in the Mosaic law, but because they are universal for all people. The Mosaic law included universal moral rules and rules that were limited to the nation who lived under that contract. We have to distinguish between these as we consider how we relate to the Mosaic covenant now. Universal moral obligations from the Mosaic Law are repeated in the New Testament. The things that no longer apply to us are not repeated in the New Testament. It’s exactly like being in a separate state. Today, we do not live under the Mosaic covenant. We don't have all the laws that pertain to dietary and sacrificial things because Jesus did away with those laws. We don’t have the punishments proscribed in the law because that was for their judicial system in that nation. Just as the punishments for laws in other states don’t apply to us in California (even if we have the same law), we don’t apply those punishments since we aren’t under that system of laws. Note also in Ephesians 2 Paul talks about the role of the law. It was a dividing wall that kept the Gentiles and Jews separated. He said that dividing wall has been torn down now so that the Jews and Gentiles can be combined into one new man on the New Covenant having been built on the foundation of the prophets and apostles in Christ Jesus the cornerstone. We are not under the Mosaic Law, but under the New Covenant. The Mosaic Law contained some universal moral principles that apply today because they transcend the old law, but aren’t applied in the same way judicially. The Mosaic Law was limited to a time and nation, but morality was not. I sincerely hope this rather lengthy discourse would give you the correct respective of application in relation to the New Covenant.
@@93556108 TH-cam comments aren't really the best venue to debate theology. I agree with a lot of what you wrote but you are missing one major purpose of the law - as a revelation of God's moral law and a rule for life for those who follow Him. Any laws not abrogated in Christ remain in effect.
Roman Catholicism was called the where of Babylin by Luthet, Mary was nothing more than a woman, Christ said so. The only intermediary between us and God is Christ. And, the 5 tenants of Calvinism are firmly taught in the Bible from the Old through to the New Testament
This didn't answer my history slide question..
same
@@marcelloreeves9725 yep
cuz he is an obese farmer.
why dont you put what your question is/was?
i have to find videos on john calvin
I love brothers Martin Luther and John Calvin.
Calvin's life and ideas @ 0:18 and @ 4:30
Christ Alone.
Christ Alone.
I think that this video explained John Calvin's history very well, Thank you Discerning History.
"To be deep in history is to cease to be a Protestant."
Cardinal Newman has been criticized though he was absolutely right..
Great video, thank you very much, note to self (nts) watched all of it ,
What I have seen and confirmed with many Catholic converts is when Sacred Tradition (not traditions of men) and the authority of the Church are taken away from the Bible, it's too difficult to hold up the authority of Scripture without this structure. I know dear friends in evangelical Protestantism that have been fighting for years to uphold the authority of Scripture and basic Christian morals. This has been very difficult to do this without a valid historic priesthood and the Canon law of the Church to exercise authority when needed. Essentially, when there is significant disagreement in Protestantism and no mechanism to resolve it, there are splits equaling 30,000 denominations.
Honestly as someone who didn't convert from a Protestant church (came from a religious community which is related to theosophy, a blend of Eastern thought, western esoteric thought, and Christianity), I thought about conversion quite differently. Protestant converts do seem primarily concerned with authority and the origins of the Bible.....that isn't necessarily the primary concern of other converts (or perhaps we just express it differently)
I could certainly see how this would be true. When I finally understood that Scripture birthed out of Sacred Tradition (not traditions of men), then I realized how important the writings of the Church Fathers were. Without them, we wouldn't have the Bible.
I think many Protestant groups wholly discount sacred tradition, but there are a few that hold to it such as traditional Anglicans, some Lutherans, and some Methodists. Of course, it varies how much it is embraced and there is some cherry-picking that goes on.
But, I think you are right that without a strong emphasis on patristic thought there is absolutely NO way to know for sure how the primitive church implemented the Bible.
Pastor Stanley Garland. I learned from several Catholic Bible scholars that even the Jewish Canon of the Bible was not fully closed until 95 AD although the early Jewish Christians had most of the Old Testament memorized by the time Jesus came. The Gospel of John wasn't even written until 100 AD. The first closing of the New Testament Canon happened by 387 AD. The early Christians did not have Bibles. They had to depend on Oral Tradition (Sacred Tradition, not traditions of men) to know what to believe and how to live. Even the Bible itself says to hold fast to the traditions you are taught both written and oral. My post about Sacred Tradition gives some quotes from the Church Fathers/Councils and the corresponding Scriptures.
yes, very true and most early Christians did not have all the books that we have consolidated together for easy reference. Many only had a few books in their location, which made oral tradition all the more important. We are very blessed and indebted to the councils for bringing all the sacred scriptures together for us and for working out the cannon.
Pastor, Stanley. This is an excellent video about the origin of the Bible from a Catholic Bible scholar, Dr. Brant Pitre. Have a blessed day m.th-cam.com/video/0k0UV2Zi5X0/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/0k0UV2Zi5X0/w-d-xo.html
Interesting how in 5+ minutes Calvin's bold stance against the pagan heliocentric (spinning globe, non firmament-outer space) deception wasn't mentioned.
His statements on the matter consist of a few words of many many thousands so they certainly don't warrant inclusion. Also, we have little doubt that if he lived today he not be anti-heliocentric, but would recognize the Bible in no way contradicts the scientific view of the orbits of the planets.
@@DiscerningHistory Wrong my friend. Read all 200 some odd verses about scriptural cosmology. Scripture never supports orbits, space, other planets, a globe, etc... This is all vain Greek philosophy.
@@mikemarkley3154 amen to that!
Calvin doesn’t seem to realize that doctrine isn’t about men figuring out how God wants to apply his sovereignty. He gave Calvin the freewill to get it wrong.
well said Thank you!
The reformation was a continuation of Catholicism as Luther continued to teach infant water baptism as a requirement for salvaiton which attacks the gospel of Christ.. Calvin also taught infant water baptism as a means to salvaiton so the reformation and protestantism is just one a daughter of the Catholic harlot.. One must simply believe the gospel according to the scriptures in order to receive remission of sins the free gift of eternal life.. 1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph @, John @ KJV
TRUE, the very reason the Mother Harlot is a 'MOTHER', she birthed other little harlots ... protestants and orthodox split offs.
yliyahmessagetime.wordpress.com/2020/08/25/the-man-of-sin-already-sits-in-the-temple/
yliyahmessagetime.wordpress.com/2018/04/03/horae-apocalypticae-free-pdf-and-historicism-eschatology-videos/
Yeah but show me a cheap faith that does not santifie and you are yet in your sins. That antinomian Gospel born in hell of easy believing without a cross is false and heretical. Jesus Christ will say one day, depart from me you that work lawlessness. So in love I admonish for the love of your soul and mine. Paul said, we were slaves of sins and now have become slaves of righteousness by grace through the Holy spirit. Also it is written, false teachers will deny the Lord that bought them with blood. We are someones slaves when one buy us with a high price. So also that antinomian Gospel is from hell.
That’s a very good story and I will support you friend.
It's a true story.😁
@@addictedtojesus922 no, completely fiction
It's great but would have been better without the background music.
Conflict between Grace and power... like a white dove and the Blue Bird
Good content, but background music is a distracting annoyance.
I feel like Calvin gets kind of a bum rap these days, largely due to the controversial pre-determination theology. That's kind of unfair though due to that only being one part of his ideas, and the fact that he helped dismantle the corrupt overreaches of the Catholic church, translate the bible to the masses, and reminded the church the importance of simplicity in and humility in worship.
I keep thinking their talking to me
Calvin's good testimonies were revealed but not in John Calvin masterminded the death of his old college buddy Michael Servetus, a premeditated act of murderous hatred for which he showed no remorse. Calvin actually boasted of his evil deed.
A few questions I leave with Calvinists believers:
If Jesus was someone who ruled with a sword or an iron hand, would you still follow him?
Do you think God approved of Calvin’s tactics on imposing his faith on others?
What is your idea of a good spiritual leader and do you think John Calvin was one?
These verses should answer some of your questions:
"Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel." Psalm 2:8-9
"6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;
7 Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth;
8 Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:
9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.
10 And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the Lord thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.
11 And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this is among you.
12 If thou shalt hear say in one of thy cities, which the Lord thy God hath given thee to dwell there, saying,
13 Certain men, the children of Belial, are gone out from among you, and have withdrawn the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which ye have not known;
14 Then shalt thou enquire, and make search, and ask diligently; and, behold, if it be truth, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought among you;
15 Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword.
16 And thou shalt gather all the spoil of it into the midst of the street thereof, and shalt burn with fire the city, and all the spoil thereof every whit, for the Lord thy God: and it shall be an heap for ever; it shall not be built again.
" Deuteronomy 13:6-13
@@JoshuaHorn what are you implying by quoting all the verses from deu13? . thanks
@@93556108 Under the Old Testament law, anyone who preached deviation from true religion was given the death penalty. That is why Geneva executed Servetus for heresy.
@@JoshuaHorn Sorry I missed out my reply to your comments. For your information, the Mosaic Law of the Old Testament was written for the chosen people of Israel. Let me make a distinction between how the Israelites were chosen then and how we as Christians are chosen now because it relates to the purpose of the Law and how we apply it today.
Israel was chosen for a purpose - Genesis 12:1-3. They were God's instruments to accomplish a plan of rescue for the world: God becoming man as a member of the Jewish race and dying on the cross for man's crimes against God. They were not chosen to be saved, rather they were chosen to be used to accomplish God’s plan of salvation. It secured a salvation plan for the world, and whether they individually participated in it or not was another question.
Christians are the chosen in the sense that those who are in Christ, putting their trust in Him, are the ones that benefitted from that plan of salvation God was working out through Israel. We put our confidence in Him, so we are chosen regarding salvation.
The Mosaic Covenant is a treaty God made with the Jews, the nation of Israel. What was the point of the book of Deuteronomy? Deuteronomy is the second time the law is given. It is first given in Exodus when Moses is at Mount Sinai. There’s 40 years of wandering and the first generation dies away. Then there’s a new generation that takes the land under Joshua. Before Moses dies he gives that same law again a second time in Deuteronomy to the new generation that is now meant to take the land and live according to this law as a nation. The important thing is that this is an agreement that God made with Israel. It is not an agreement God made with anyone else.
The Mosaic contract is no longer in force. It has been replaced for everyone, including Jews, by the new contract (Hebrews 8:13). The new contract is a new enterprise. Gentiles were never under the old contract. Now, Jews and Gentiles alike who put their faith in Jesus are under the new contract.
Does that mean we can go around murdering people because we’re not under the Mosaic Law? No. The obligation not to murder is universal and should be in any law. Just as our law does, the Mosaic Law included universal moral principles. So we are obligated to follow those moral rules, not in virtue of them being in the Mosaic law, but because they are universal for all people. The Mosaic law included universal moral rules and rules that were limited to the nation who lived under that contract. We have to distinguish between these as we consider how we relate to the Mosaic covenant now.
Universal moral obligations from the Mosaic Law are repeated in the New Testament. The things that no longer apply to us are not repeated in the New Testament. It’s exactly like being in a separate state.
Today, we do not live under the Mosaic covenant. We don't have all the laws that pertain to dietary and sacrificial things because Jesus did away with those laws. We don’t have the punishments proscribed in the law because that was for their judicial system in that nation. Just as the punishments for laws in other states don’t apply to us in California (even if we have the same law), we don’t apply those punishments since we aren’t under that system of laws.
Note also in Ephesians 2 Paul talks about the role of the law. It was a dividing wall that kept the Gentiles and Jews separated. He said that dividing wall has been torn down now so that the Jews and Gentiles can be combined into one new man on the New Covenant having been built on the foundation of the prophets and apostles in Christ Jesus the cornerstone. We are not under the Mosaic Law, but under the New Covenant. The Mosaic Law contained some universal moral principles that apply today because they transcend the old law, but aren’t applied in the same way judicially. The Mosaic Law was limited to a time and nation, but morality was not.
I sincerely hope this rather lengthy discourse would give you the correct respective of application in relation to the New Covenant.
@@93556108 TH-cam comments aren't really the best venue to debate theology. I agree with a lot of what you wrote but you are missing one major purpose of the law - as a revelation of God's moral law and a rule for life for those who follow Him. Any laws not abrogated in Christ remain in effect.
Jean Cauvin.
Durant reformation
Here today and gone tomorrow.
🤔
The granite of the Reformation Wall was daubed with paint last year after the gay pride march in the city ... what happened to respect?
The RCC is the One True Faith! End of story!
No you got it wrong....God is the one true faith not man.
Roman Catholicism was called the where of Babylin by Luthet, Mary was nothing more than a woman, Christ said so. The only intermediary between us and God is Christ. And, the 5 tenants of Calvinism are firmly taught in the Bible from the Old through to the New Testament
It’s okay to be wrong.