Sorry for the extra editing this time around, for some reason even the tiniest things were getting the video taken down so we had to be pretty hard on the edit. Either way this episode was INSANE😤
Was wondering what happened…And may I say that that happening to y’all is total crap!! I’ve seen channels that have maybe -10k followers who don’t even have a channel anymore, play almost the entire thing!!! TH-cam is punishing you gentlemen for being popular 🙄 Keep your awesome content up 😉
I understand the reasoning on why the editing is the way it is but it’s definitely an editors error. Not tryna bash anyone but dozens of other channels have this problem also and they got around it without making it to where were only watching subtitles.
24:39 If you look closely, Jon picks up a shield with a bear as its sigil. One of the 62 men from Bear Island made it into Winterfell. They ended up making a difference.
Daenerys only made them burn one boat because she wants their ships. Burning one boat is obviously enough to send a message. She doesn’t have to do overkill and lose a fleet of ships in the process.
Rhaegal & Viseryon are smaller than Drogon because they were kept in captivity. It stunts their growth. Drogon was roaming around freely, which is why he is so much bigger than them.
@michellehawk282 ngl I think he was always much bigger than the rest. At the start of season 4 when dany lost control over drogon for the first time, Drogon was considerably bigger than the other 2. He is the youngest but also the biggest
One little detail i love is that when drogon jumps off that building and lands next to her, daenerys was actually pointing telling him to land beside her
That shot of Jon going up against the calvary is SO good. One of the best shots of the entire series. And the fact that Kit stared down A REAL charge? Balls. BALLS.
The guy Tormund killed wasn't a Carstark. It was Small John Umber. When Osha and Rickon left Bran and Co., they were headed for Last Hearth, home of the Umbers.
I think the reason Sansa did not tell Jon is because she didn't trust littlefinger to come thru. Littlefinger, as sneaky as he is, you would not want a plan to depend on him. Also, it was the surprise effect that won the battle. Edited: Regardless whether Sansa told Jon about the Vale or not, they would've lost anyway since all of the strategy flew out of the window the second that arrow hit Rickon (that part was constant, given ramsey's cruel nature & jon's emotional nature).
well she could have told him about their conversation , i know this move by writers was to give sansa some importance as a character but 4000 vale knights could have changed the way jon and davos planned this battle and maybe saved rickon
She didn't tell Jon because she wanted to see if he would be stupid like her father and brother. He was being stupid so she couldn't give him that information or he would've gotten them killed like he did everyone else.
Sansa literally asked Jon to wait until they have a larger force. Why didn’t she tell Jon about Littlefinger and the army maybe she wasn’t sure they would show up and it would work but she did ask him to wait.
@@jcompton8507 She is willing to sacrifice both Jon and Rickon. There's a scene Sansa has with Brienne where Brienne calls out Sansa for being silent about LF. The writers didn't write this scene to point out that they are bad writers. They did it to show Sansa's ruthlessness and latent mistrust of Jon. Sansa was right.
to me battle of the bastards is one of the best medieval battles cinema has to offer. usually we see one army just obliterate the other yet here the complete chaos is displayed so well. you see men on the same side slaughter each other, people getting slammed of their horse without even knowing what hit hem and the all the poor souls that fell early and just get trampled by the rest. peak cinema
I agree it’s realistic in terms of being grounded, but in medieval battles formations and keeping that formation were the most important part. Jon’s men would’ve broken immediately when they lost cohesion against ramsays superior cavalry and force.
@@cassu6 i thought only the romans were really good at keeping formation and creating working tactics. Hence their success conquering so much territory.
Because Sansa knows the brutality of Ramsey, I believe that she knew that Rickon was never coming home. That is not Ramsey’s style. He has no mercy and he has no understanding of family loyalty. and John could never understand just how ruthless and evil Ramsay truly was, but Sansa did. So her plan, in my mind, was the only plan that could work.
Then why use saving Rickon as the main argument for Jon to help her form an army? If she truly believed Rickon was beyond saving, than this is her first lie to Jon in a string of lies this season.
@@jcompton8507 Because Jon would've threw the battle in the exact same way as in the show, but now with more troops being fucked and no reinforcements coming to save him. Or Ramsay would've just retreated and held out in Winterfell.
@@cassu6 That...makes no sense. If TV-Sansa had told TV-Jon from the beginning that they weren't getting Rickon back, then TV-Jon wouldn't have fought _at all_. He told her he had fought enough and wasn't interested in trying to win Winterfell back. On the other hand, when Book-Jon thought it was "Arya" married to Ramsey (but it was actually Jeyne Poole), they sent a small team of Wildlings (including Mance) to sneak into Winterfell to try to help her escape. He only started talking about recruiting a group/army to go rescue her himself after he believed the first team had failed.
@jwhite-1471 maybe, I just saw it as her being free of someone who mentally and physically abused her, and it being a smile of relief. Then again we have to remember it's a tv show that's written to please us and it gives the viewer the satisfaction
Nah be so fr bro sansa telling John what she was planning to do wouldn't change a damn thing lol, first of all all strategy went out the window when rickon got hit, and sansa didn't know if little finger would help her so what would she have told john? "I'm going to get little finger and MAYBE come back with a army idk tho"
@@dahliadaydream I'm female, and I think Sansa has always been superficial, mean, selfish, self-centered, immature, and a terrible judge of character. That's her whole schtick. Until D&D decided to beat us over the head with her being "smartest" by either emotionally manipulating, lying to, or undermining her "brother." Oh! Also promoting isolationism for the North while begging other kingdoms to sacrifice their own men to save her kingdom from first the Boltons and then an Army of Zombies. Afterwards, she wants them to pack up and leave. "Even though you saved us, don't let the door hit you on the way out."
It always bugged me that they never got the giant some kind of weapon. Like one of you said, a tree trunk, but I think they could have spent a little time creating him a huge dagger - a knife in his perspective but a massive sword in ours.
Sansa was there when her dad got his head chopped off after confronting Cersei and heard about how Robb essentially got himself, their mother, and almost all of their men killed. She didn’t fully trust Jon to make the smart decision and he wasn’t listening to her. She knows Ramsay better than Jon does and a part of that is also some fear that things could go wrong. Sansa has been “raised” to only trust herself because horrible people get out of death all the time. Even in season 2 Sansa knew Joffrey wouldn’t die in the battle of Blackwater because awful boys always live. If Sansa blindly trusted Jon then she would have truly learned nothing through the years. She also knows more about what Littlefinger wants. Knowing what he wants makes her “trust” him for now.
No. It's sh*tty writing don't even try to defend it. "Did you think to ask me what we should do Jon?!" "Okay, what should we do Sansa?" "I DON'T KNOW!!!" Tf? Lmfao.
@Skylingale Exactly..Sansa used getting there brother back as a primary reason to go after Winterfell and then just says, we will never get him back..to hell with Sansa and her BS.
This is the stupidiest strategy and Jon could have been slaughtered before the Vale arrived. Think of all the Northmen died because she chose to not mention the Knights of the Vale.
@@shootingreal5945 Sansa's character kinda dies with this episode; that unnecessarily monstrous betrayal for the sake of shuffling in a bootleg ride of the Rohirrim moment, even if it had been in line with her character (it isn't outside of the many head-cannons people try to spin), from this point on Sansa devolves into the that utterly unsubstantiated 'smartest person Arya's ever met' that irks all those forced to sit through the scant moronic dialogue the writers could muster (she did tell experienced Winter veterans to pad their armour though, so what do I know). - Least Toxic GoT Fan
You have to remember Sansa wasn’t being listened to, she warned Jon about what Ramsey would do, and Jon just danced into the trap so any plans they had before the battle were destroyed. Sansa became the ace up the sleeve, and won
@@mhorrighan She literally kept secret that she could have the Vale's army under her/Littlefinger command, leading to have most of the Stark-Loyalist force killed. Many times she could just have told Jon, but she didn't. She was seeing herself on the North trone, not Jon, which is a half-brother to her and not a "Stark". Hell, Jon didn't even wanted to retake Winterfell, it's her who pushed him to do it.
@@Hyperi0nn No, it was Jon who got the Stark forces killed because he got baited by Ramsey, even though Sansa directly warned him about the way Ramsey does things. If she had told him about the Vale, he would've gotten those forces killed too probably with his incompetence, or Ramsey would simply bunker up in Winterfell and let them freeze outside the walls. Jon failed miserably and Sansa won this battle, and she should see herself on the throne because, unlike Jon, she's actually a capable and competent ruler who looks after her people
The tactics and logic behind the battle leave so much to be desired, but besides Hardhome, this episode gave me the most amount of goosebumps and orgasms when it first aired
It's funny how Daenerys gets praise for standing up for herself after years of abuse while Sansa gets crapped on after being tortured and used by the men in her life for years.
SPOILERS for future season!!! When has anyone ever crapped on Sansa for killing Ramsay? Actually, I've seen more people shit on Daenerys. People use her showing no emotion when Viserys died as an example of 'foreshadowing' what she would do. Sansa killing Ramsay was brilliant. As she should. Unless you're referring to her not trusting Jon? My issue is she uses Rickon as a reason to get Jon to fight for Winterfell but then says Rickon is guaranteed to die. Why use that as an excuse to get Jon to fight then? Daenerys still showed trust in her allies. Barristan, Missandei, Grey Worm, Tyrion (even Jorah before she found out he betrayed her and after he returns). Sansa doesn't trust Jon for some reason whom she grew up with. He didn't abuse her. She was actually the bully to him (I'm not calling her abusive as she was like this because of Catelyn and her environment). Later we see her so quick to forgive Jaime who actually harmed her family by attacking her father, warring with Robb and crippling Bran. She stands up to the wrong people. Not to mention she thanks her abusers later (to the Hound).
I personally can't stand Dany and I actually find most of the GOT fanbase insufferable because they act like Dany sh*ts gold and rainbows. Everything Dany does is perfect, but if another female character even dares to take action on their own terms, suddenly she is as evil as Cersei. It reminds me of how everyone blindly worships Clark Griffith from The 100, but they hate Octavia with a passion even though she didn't even do a quarter of the BS Clark and her mother did. The more people hate on Sansa, the more I like her.
@@rationalcynic8416 I personally can't stand Sansa. She's a mean girl. And selfish. And a bad judge of character. She chooses to trust people with questionable morals (Joff, Cersei, Littlefinger, and even she even _chooses_ to join in with LF's scheme for her to marry Ramsey to take back Winterfell) rather than characters who were probably more trustworthy (Arya, Ned, Septa Mordane, the Hound, Tyrion, Brienne, Lord Royce, Jon)... That is, until D&D decide to keep telling us over and over how "smart" she is. And we are just supposed to believe it.
Because Santa knows the brutality of Ramsey, I believe that she knew that Rickon was never coming home. That is not Ramsey’s style. He has no mercy and he has no understanding of family loyalty. and John could never understand just how ruthless and evil Ramsay was, but Sansa did. So her plan, in my mind, was the only plan that could work.
Especially shitty of her, since Rickon was the reason she used the most to coerce Jon to form an army to take back Winterfell. She sure was willing to sacrifice her brothers and the Free Folk for her revenge / power grab for Winterfell. (I say that to counter-argue the excuses you're making for why she did what she did, but in all honesty I think it was just bad writing rather than calculated moves on Sansa's part.)
@@jcompton8507 Pretty sure they found out about Rickon long after they formed the army. Or they would've used Rickon as a banner for the whole North to rally behind whilst forming said army; which is the same reason Ramsay had he locked away without anyone knowing he was alive. They took back Winterfell because it belongs to their family, for their own security, for its strategic importance and because they needed the North united to face the dead. Which was impossible as long as the Boltons held it. Rickon was dead regardless, because as long as he lived he was a threat to Bolton rule of the North. And Jon was quite frankly a moron, Sansa was right not to blindly trust him given his blundering.
It shows her growth that she's not blindly trusting John. All the elements were there but the scene was badly written. Her revenge part was great though
@@piusdoe8984 It didn't make any sense, she literally pushed Jon into a war and she literally said we have to save Rickon, and after that she acted like all smart and wise, "he's already dead". Wtf? Come on, Jon told her they don't have enough men, she didn't care, and now she's a strategist and she "knows" they don't have enough men? Come on.
Yall naive af if you thought there was any way for Rickon to survive. Regardless of the army behind him, Jon would still have fallen for Ramseys trick...
Untrue? If they had a large force it could have started a seige & Ramsey would have needed to keep Rickon alive longer (though how unharmed would be another question).
The shield that John used to protect himself from Ramsey’s arrows at the end belonged to House Mormont! which means what Lyanna said was true.. “Any man from Bear Islands fights with the power of 10 normal soldiers” !!! Even though there were only 62 men from their house! one of them still made it !
Couple fun facts.. The shield that Jon picks up inside Winterfell has the Bear Island sigil, proving Lady Mormont’s 62 men made a difference.. After this episode aired, the actor that plays Rikkon tweeted ‘Had a good run #ShouldveZigZagged’
The cinematography of this episode was INSANELY AMAZING 🔥 I wish you didn’t blur it that much! Can’t wait to see THE WINDS OF WINTER !! edit: 21:02 No she couldn’t tell him, think about it.. do you think John would accept the help from little finger? the one who betrayed Ned Stark and got him killed?!
Been waiting for this one since y'all started your GoT journey. Hope you love it as much as I do, this is gonna be a good one. I haven't seen the video yet but I give a preventive rip to Carter's legs, poor guys gonna get a slapping
In Sansa's defence: she's literally spent the entire time since she was reunited with Jon telling him important stuff and proving how smart she is, like let's not forget Sansa spent multiple seasons basically being trained by Cersei, and yet no one fucking listens to her. And no one ever listens to her. For seasons she's low key been making incredible moves despite her situations (she's been playing littlefinger FOR YEARS and we just saw another pay off of that) and no one gives a shit bc she is a woman- and she knows it! she plays into it! But now, when trying to tell Jon hey this isn't smart this isn't gonna work bc I know Ramsey he just doesn't listen. There is only so much a girl, or man, can stand not being listened to and eventually you stop telling (and men can't stand it for a lot shorter than women let me tell you). This was Sansa showing that hey if you gave a shit about my skills and smarts this wouldn't have happened, and yeah that can be frustrating for y'all and stuff but she was literally trying to tell him stuff all episode and if he would have listened she may have mentioned oh I sent a raven to littlefinger, but she probably felt like that would have been brushed of and ridiculed
@@simplysierra9035I wouldn't say that I just think people forgot how Sansa put Peter in his place (2 episodes ago). She couldn't guarantee that he would help after that. That's how I saw it anyway 🤔
I would ve loved if the show went in the direction that Sansa is secretly an evil genius now and wanted Rick and Jon ded by the end of the fight when Vale came so she's the solo heir of the North. But no, the show brushes her and her journey off just like the characters do. I think that's why most audience tend to resent her out of just not understanding her (BCZ THE SHOW DOESN'T GIVE ENUF).
@@Annedrinkstea the villain arc might be like that in movies and books but irl people are more complicated. It really depends on the person and their personality. Sansa went through unimaginable tragedy but remained kind. She wasn’t stupid or naive though. She knew Rickon wasn’t making it before the battle even started. Sometimes when you go through trauma it makes you want to make sure you can stop as many people as you can from going through the same thing.
IN SANSA’s Defence - If she had told Jon the vale was coming when she didn’t know for sure herself, then his strategy would have completely changed and it would have been for nothing if the vale didn’t actually make it, it changed anyway after Jon charged ahead and forced his side to charge rather than wait for ramsay to charge as Davos said, and they would have got wrecked because of this change - plus its understandable she wants to keep quiet about dealing with littlefinger of all people but that shows she is still immature and new to the game still IN JON’s Defence - If Jon had waited for a larger force with the Vale, then Ramsay would not have come out to meet them in open battle and would have instead planned for a siege, which Jon knows he does not have time for with the walkers coming, he had to attack now as he said It’s a tough dynamic but completely fair on both sides, peak GOT man I love it. Realistically what happened in ep 9 might have been the only way they won this battle
10:52 bro, what exactly do you have against Sansa? Because she seems to always be pissing you off in one way or another, did you just forget everything she's been through on this show??
@@orphanedhanyou Yes it does. In the Game of Thrones you either win or die. Jon is too stupid to understand this. Indeed, his poor leadership and idiocy is why his own men mutiny and kill him. Jon refuses to play the game and so is a poor confidant.
If Jon knew about the army of the Vale, he would’ve included them in the initial line. He would’ve made the same mistake in chasing after Rickon, the Vale would have followed him, and then they would have lost. Sansa didn’t trust that Jon wouldn’t react before thinking
Sansa has a trust issue after everything she's been through, Jon didn't want to listen to her, she had to ask the guy who sold her for help, so I get. Jon should have died in the first seconds of battle, after Rickon died, he should have been hit by the arrows. he fell easily into Ramsay's trap. I don't like Jon being so dumb on a battlefield, and also about Sansa's decision, they also made her not tell so that there would be an incredible turnaround when no one else expected it, script problems but it's still an incredible episode.
And Jon _doesn't_ have trust issues? He had just been murdered days before she arrived and forced him to form an army to "take back their home and save their little brother."
@@jcompton8507 What one thing have to do with the other? The one that was no listening the other is Jon, not Sansa. Forced? Don’t be stupid. And Sansa tell Jon to NOT attack, why so much rush to die? They should have waited. Jon is so smart that the help of the From the Vale or other armies like Edmure/Blackfish's didn't cross his mind?
@@jcompton8507Sansa has been let down by literally everyone around her, including her own father and brother Robb. Her trust issues rightfully run deep
@@dahliadaydream Why blame Robb and Ned specifically? Bran, Cat, Arya, and Sansa were just as involved in piling onto the whole mess for their family in Book 1. But if anyone should be blamed, it should be LF. He started all of this with killing Jon Arryn and blaming the Lannisters. Then he pushed all the right buttons to escalate things between the two families along the way. Also, we shouldn't forget that, at first, Sansa _chose_ the Lannisters. Because Joff and Cersei are "beautiful." And she wanted to marry a prince and be Queen. She's the one who ran to Cersei to alert her that her father was making moves to send her and Arya home.
@@luis-yx752 What do they have to do with each other? Jon didn't care enough about Winterfell to fight for it. He tells Sansa when they reunite, and she brings up trying to take it back, that he's "done with fighting." She emotionally manipulates him into raising an army with her by targeting his love for Rickon (when later on she admits that she never believed they would be able to save him). When he's still reluctant, she says if he doesn't help her, she'll do it herself. (Conversations while still at Castle Black.) Jon was always doing it to save Rickon first and foremost. He didn't care about his own life, and he already told Sansa he didn't care about fighting for Winterfell itself. Which is why he threw away their battle plans to try to reach Rickon before the arrow. At this point, defeating Ramsey and reclaiming Winterfell wasn't worth it if they couldn't save Rickon. Kit says in the post-episode interview that Jon _wanted_ to die up until the point he was suffocating in the stampede. When facing death again - like that - he made a decision there and then that he in fact wanted to live.
the only way sansa keeping the vale army a secret makes sense is that ramsey had winterfell and he brought his army out to fight a pitched battle one on one only because his army was bigger than jons....if he saw the knights of the vale join jons army before the fight began he would have moved his forces into winterfell and since jon didnt have siege weapons' it wouldve gone another way
still....in 2016 when this came out every one HATED sansa for not telling jon at least and not even trying to save rickon...AND everyone was screaming at rickon to fucking zigzag:p
Also, there is no way that the Bolton scouts wouldn't have seen the army coming. We already know from scene where Ramsey had "Reek" be "Theon" that the Boltons held Moat Cailin....which is near the Neck, so the army from the Vale would have had to pass pretty damn close to it on the way to Winterfell with no one noticing. So this point is moot. Because Ramsey _should_ have forced a siege situation. This battle is all-around ridiculous.
This epsiode is the epitomy of what went wrong with the series. RANT. SPOILERS!!! With the later seasons. It's all spectacle over substance. 1. The Knights of the Vale just happened to teleport past Moat Cailin and march all the way to Winterfell as basically foreign invaders for the first time in thousands of years and NO ONE noticed? That is the most unbelievable bs ever. And don't get me started on the implications and consequences for this. Sansa literally got thousands of men killed and almost got jon killed. They could have easily chosen a more practical strategy with the same outcome, minus the thousands of dead Stark-Loyalists. The worst aspect however is, that Jon N E V E R challenges her about it in any way. It is literally a betrayal, completely without consequence. 2. A giant without a weapon. For plot-reasons Wun-Wun doesn't get a log and some wooden planks as Armor to solo the entire Bolton forces. Seriously why the hell did they not give him ANYTHING to fight with? He literally used a massive log at Hardome, destroying dozens of Wights with a single swing. Here he fights bareheanded. W H Y. 3. Ramsay pointlessly shoots the giant instead instead of killing jon. 4. Ramsay has an impossible accuracy with his boy. 5. Jon Snow is starting to reveal his plot armor 6. The Battle, great to look at, but from a tactical and logical point of view absolutely ridicolous. Convinient MOUNTAINS of dead people, Jon is on foot in the middle of a huge clash of cavalry but does not get trampeled by either side, seriously, they play it like he was "saved" just in time, but in order for that to happen, they would have needed to get around and ahead of him, wich they don't. The Bolton set up their shield wall, while the characters just stand around and watch. Seriously, they don't move to disrupt their formation, they just stare at it, doing nothing. 7. One of the last trueborn sons of Eddard Stark gets murdered and NO ONE CARES or mentions it ever again. This battle is a milestone for television. It looks fantastic, but as with many of the good looking things. It makes no sense once you stop to think about it.
Lol none of the battles in this show made any sense. Blackwater and the Wildlings assault on castle black made even less sense than this did and nobody says anything. They're just cool things to look at as a payoff for all the people who find the political maneuvering boring. All the battles that happen after this one are logistically stupid too but that's not the point.
The White Walkers are not end game. Martin has said repeatedly that there WILL be a "scouring of the Shire" after the obvious threat is dealt with. In this story that means when the threat of ice is handled the threat of fire is next.
How can you say that Sansa is immature, salty and whatever. She was spitting facts. Stop being biased against Sansa. Sansa didnt tell them because she has no guarantee that the knights of the vale are gonna come. They are still ruled by the prick of a cousin and untrustable LF.
'Spitting facts' you say? "Did you think to ask me what we should do Jon?!" "Okay, what should we do Sansa?" "I DON'T KNOW!!!" Damn she was spitting facts like crazy lmao.
@@JessYapping Why would she do this? The entire point was to goad Jon into attacking Winterfell despite his army's hopeless size. This lures Ramsey out. If she tells Jon and he refuses to engage, Ramsey just marches back behind the walls of Winterfell and wins by default. The Vale gambit only works if it is a complete surprise.
Idk if it has been said, but Daenerys wasn't looking at Tyrion for approval, he was showing her how to do a proper handshake, because she is unfamiliar with the customs of Westeros since she has been on the run her whole life. You can see him kind of mime how to do it.
Whenever you guys say "shoutout to maddie" i'm like "wait, Jack and McKays sister is also an artist?? Y'all got a whole family business going here" and then I remember that it's not a unique name in the slightest and I feel slightly more foolish to kick off my day. Staying humble is better than being overconfident I suppose.
I LOVE Sansa. Jon is the one that frustrates me lol. He didn't listen to Sansa, fell for Ramseys trick, forced his men to follow to protect him after he rode solo into the opposing army, causing thousands of deaths and their near certain defeat had it not been for Sansa....
For merch, you guys should have done a House Gek shirt - a banner with with your logo as sigil/coat-of-arms as if you were one of the houses of Westeros
Funnily enough, Iwan Rheon (Ramsay) is purportedly such a sweetheart. There’s an interview where he talks about the dogs and how he wanted to go pet them, so he goes, “oh hello doggy!” However they immediately pulled him away because they were actually very dangerous dogs. He never even had a scene with them. Nice reaction men!
Never fails to amuse me when men, once again, blame Sansa for the actions of *men* going into childish wars without putting into context what it’s like in Sansa’s shoes, comprehending the trauma and abuse she went through. Yet Jon gets all the pass and credit for every stupid decision he’s ever made. Sansa did warn Jon, many times. Because she knew that he is just as stupid and self-righteous as their father was.
Oh shut up. Alot of Men, as you say, have little sisters and have gone through similar stuff (in terms of the quandary, not the life or death event). It's hard to understand, especially from a masculine perspective Why Sansa did what she did, especially when there were not many scenes showing Sansa's plan come through. She simply isn't given enough screen time and when she is, it seems that what she's doing is arbitrary. It takes time to hash out why Sansa acted the way she did. Many are so focused on Jon and Wildling lives. We don't see any of the struggle or work Sansa needs to go through in order to make her plan kick off, much of it is inferred, and is easier to internalize once you really understand the geography and wider politics.
@thedappermagician6905 it's not that complicated, you just need some empathy and to use your brain for a second. While they were getting annoyed with Sansa, John was the one being hard headed and treating her like a girl who couldn't possibly understand the situation
Of course the mentally ill take comes from the person with the rainbow pfp lmao. "Did you think to ask me what we should do Jon?!" "Okay, what should we do Sansa?" "I DON'T KNOW!!!" Listen to Sansa you guys. She's the smartest person ever, Arya says so herself!
I've been waiting for this reaction since y'all started season 6, but the opacity on the episode is so low, makes it hard to see what the heck is going on. I understand it's because of copyright though. Anyway, I do agree that they should've given Wun Wun a weapon, but he's definitely still the MVP. I hate that he died, RIP. Jon being in that pile always makes me feel claustrophobic too. The end of the Boltons is finally here! Good call on feeding Ramsay to his dogs, Carter. Pretty much everyone after this episode aired, talked about how Rickon should've zigzagged or something. Still sucks he died though, RIP to the youngest of the Stark children. It's funny too that this episode starts off with Dany basically doing what Carter wanted her to do last episode. 😂 See, you just had to wait and it works better the way the show did it, imo.
Remember Sansa originally tells Jon at Castle Black "we have to go back and save them both". Winterfell AND Rickon. But now she admits she knew all along that Ramsey would never let Rickon get away. She just says this now to manipulate Jon into doing what she wants. She doesn't want to look foolish if Littlefinger doesn't show so she lies vs let Jon know they just need to wait a day or two for them to arrive/get a return raven. By then if they heard nothing they would know he wasn't coming. But Sansa got mad (rightfully) at Littlefinger... but she blew her "cover" with him & she couldn't know if he would "bite" at the chance to get back in her good graces.
Sansa does not trust Littlefinger. I believe she wanted to delay the use of the Vale because she would then be indebted to the very man who sold her off to the Boltons. Also, if Jon knew about the Vale, and knowing his honesty.. he probably would have mentioned that they had the power of the Vale as well during the meeting with Ramsey, thus losing the element of surprise. You forget Jon can't, and won't, lie. He is too honest.. just like Ned. Sansa can hide that information very well. She didn't want to use the Vale, but it was there as a precaution in case Jon did fall for Ramsey's trap despite her warnings; which he did anyways. There's always the risk of Littlefinger never showing up as well. Adding the extra layer of Sansa's mistrust in people due to experiences and you get this as a result. It makes sense. That's my POV at least.
Ramsey would never have his army outside Winterfell and be so offensive like this if he knew they had the Vale with them. Also Jon would never attack Ramsey and Winterfell if he knew the vale would come to aid. I think Sansa kinda was thinking about this and was cold enough to keep it to herself. And she wasnt fully trusting Littlefinger to come.
Just to clarify, the guy you kept calling Karstark is actually Jon “Smalljon” Umber. There was a scene in a previous episode where he and Lord Karstark swore to Ramsay, but Karstark didn’t show up again after that. If you think about it, it’s kinda messed up that Smalljon’s father, Greatjon Umber, was the first to declare Robb the King of the North back in season 1. The Umbers really turned into some big-time traitors.
I have to imagine there were Bolton spies on Jon's side, so Ramsay would have found out about Littlefinger and never would have left Winterfell if he believed Vale forces were on their way.
Sansa: "You've been planning strategies and you've never asked me what we should do John: Fine, what should we do? Sansa: I DON'T KNOW, I DONT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT BATTLES Great logic
Amazing people still don't understand what's going on here. Sansa is goading Jon to attack. Given their weakness, any sensible commander would abandon the field but Jon proves what an idiot he is and how easily he can be manipulated. Jon's forces need to be weak so that Ramsey will abandon his superior defensive position behind the walls of Winterfell and engage.
@gunkulator1 Okay... 1, John couldn't call off the attack when his brothers life was on the line being hold hostage by Ramsey... 2. Sansa is not as smart as everyone says she is because she would have just told Jon about Little Fingers army in the Vale if she had half a fucking brain... so no it's not that she had a plan, its just the writing was starting to deteriorate
@@3y35poihjpn Nope. Sansa is straight up lying to Jon and purposefully not telling him. Did you miss the scene where Brienne calls out Sansa for not telling Jon about LF? Right after that Sansa sends Brienne away on a useless quest. She's getting rid of Brienne so that she does not let on about LF. Please think it through about telling Jon. Jon is basically a pawn here, a sacrifice, a lure to get Ramsey to come out from behind the walls of Winterfell. You don't tell sacrificial troops that they are about to be sacrificed. Do you think Robb Stark told the 2000 northerners he sacrificed in season 1 that they were all about to be slaughtered? Why was Robb smart but Sansa doing the same thing means she doesn't have a brain?
@gunkulator1 You're saying that she thinks of her own brother as a sacrificial lamb... that's so utterly dumb, I mean the writing obviously deteriorates and instead of getting their armies to link up and have a chance she let's so many people die before littlefingers army comes... its not being smart its just letting people die until you remember to help.. because she is very useless
@@3y35poihjpn Robb Stark literally risks his entire family for his overdeveloped sense of honor, is that utterly dumb too? Double standard much? But to answer the question: Yes, of course Sansa is willing to risk Jon's life. That's kinda the nature of war in the first place. If there was some other plan that would have worked that didn't risk Jon, I'd love to hear it. Again, if Sansa tells Jon to wait for the Vale to arrive, Ramsey does not abandon his superior position behind the walls of Winterfell. He stays put and wins by default. The Vale is forced to retreat because of Winter and then in the Spring Ramsey makes good on his promise, sends his men north to Castle Black and slaughters everyone. On a related note: what show do you think you're watching? This is Game of Thrones. Death, war and sacrifices have been part of this show from episode 1. Why are you suddenly so appalled by it now? And let's hear your plan for victory.
Sorry for the extra editing this time around, for some reason even the tiniest things were getting the video taken down so we had to be pretty hard on the edit. Either way this episode was INSANE😤
Would love Chernobyl ep 5 next :)
Thank you for doing what you can and posting!❤👍
Weird since there are so many other reaction videos that TH-cam allows 🙄
Was wondering what happened…And may I say that that happening to y’all is total crap!! I’ve seen channels that have maybe -10k followers who don’t even have a channel anymore, play almost the entire thing!!!
TH-cam is punishing you gentlemen for being popular 🙄
Keep your awesome content up 😉
I understand the reasoning on why the editing is the way it is but it’s definitely an editors error. Not tryna bash anyone but dozens of other channels have this problem also and they got around it without making it to where were only watching subtitles.
24:39 If you look closely, Jon picks up a shield with a bear as its sigil. One of the 62 men from Bear Island made it into Winterfell. They ended up making a difference.
Bear island don’t fuck around!!!
Great detail to point out. That's cool
@@moose2_the_o756 that’s actually pretty freaking cool. I’ve seen GOT twice all the way though and never noticed this detail before.
The shot with the horses charging at Jon alone is actually not cgi ;)
@@Zeesar scary to think Kit could have gotten run over by a herd of horses
'Why didn't Rickon zigzag?' was the question of 2016 😂
Bro just accepted his fate 😂
Makes me want to watch Apocalypto. Zigzagging like their life depended on... Well, you get it.
I think cause the fastest way to reach point B is straight birds flight from point A 😅
Ramsey wasn’t even looking when he was shooting he absolutely could’ve anticipated him zigzagging
@@Sageddegas Ramsay could have just had his archers do a volley if he thought there was a chance that Rickon was going to make it out alive.
The shield that jon used to beat Ramsay has a bear island sygill, which means that one of ther FEW soldiers reached winterfell
Lyanna said that one man from Bear Island could fight as hard as 10, so the math checks
Omg what a catch.. I've seen the episode a ton of times and never thought to look at the shield. House Mormont 😭💛
Its a metaphor of how supportive House Mormont is towards Jon throughout the series.
Daenerys only made them burn one boat because she wants their ships. Burning one boat is obviously enough to send a message. She doesn’t have to do overkill and lose a fleet of ships in the process.
That's so smart of her
Right after this episode aired the actor for Rickon just tweeted out, "shoulda zigzagged." Lmao
Rhaegal & Viseryon are smaller than Drogon because they were kept in captivity. It stunts their growth. Drogon was roaming around freely, which is why he is so much bigger than them.
drogon was bigger from the start
@@orcocan Yes but not this much. He's like twice the size of them now because he was free while his siblings were chained up.
@michellehawk282 ngl I think he was always much bigger than the rest. At the start of season 4 when dany lost control over drogon for the first time, Drogon was considerably bigger than the other 2. He is the youngest but also the biggest
@@michellehawk282 it’s a myth that confinement stunts the dragons growth btw
@@MagicSecretsandMysterieseven his egg was bigger than the other 2
One little detail i love is that when drogon jumps off that building and lands next to her, daenerys was actually pointing telling him to land beside her
SUCH a power move
That shot of Jon going up against the calvary is SO good. One of the best shots of the entire series. And the fact that Kit stared down A REAL charge? Balls.
BALLS.
The guy Tormund killed wasn't a Carstark. It was Small John Umber. When Osha and Rickon left Bran and Co., they were headed for Last Hearth, home of the Umbers.
I think the reason Sansa did not tell Jon is because she didn't trust littlefinger to come thru. Littlefinger, as sneaky as he is, you would not want a plan to depend on him. Also, it was the surprise effect that won the battle.
Edited: Regardless whether Sansa told Jon about the Vale or not, they would've lost anyway since all of the strategy flew out of the window the second that arrow hit Rickon (that part was constant, given ramsey's cruel nature & jon's emotional nature).
well she could have told him about their conversation , i know this move by writers was to give sansa some importance as a character but 4000 vale knights could have changed the way jon and davos planned this battle and maybe saved rickon
@@gautam10xyzrickon would never survive, forget it.
She expected Jon to die, so she could sweep in, Win and Lead the North.
She didn't tell Jon because she wanted to see if he would be stupid like her father and brother. He was being stupid so she couldn't give him that information or he would've gotten them killed like he did everyone else.
@@alcyrasantos1463 The Vale Knights shouldn’t even have made it past Moat Cailin, let alone undetected
“We need little finger more than we need air right now” without knowing John’s about to get trampled on is crazy 😂😂😂
Bruh. I can't understand how Brig randomly pops off with things like that lmao
He has been spoiled for sure.
@@Trepanation21fr I always sees that he knows through social media or something
Sansa literally asked Jon to wait until they have a larger force. Why didn’t she tell Jon about Littlefinger and the army maybe she wasn’t sure they would show up and it would work but she did ask him to wait.
It was the perfect opportunity. Either she was willing to sacrifice Jon, or it's just horrible writing. (I honestly believe the latter.)
@@jcompton8507 She is willing to sacrifice both Jon and Rickon. There's a scene Sansa has with Brienne where Brienne calls out Sansa for being silent about LF. The writers didn't write this scene to point out that they are bad writers. They did it to show Sansa's ruthlessness and latent mistrust of Jon. Sansa was right.
@@gunkulator1 Sansa was right? About what?
BATTLE OF THE BASTARDS!!
SHITTIEST BATTLE SO FAR!!
I love that the Bolton and Karstark soldiers feel like the least dangerous thing in the battle - the panic of the crush is represented amazingly
to me battle of the bastards is one of the best medieval battles cinema has to offer. usually we see one army just obliterate the other yet here the complete chaos is displayed so well. you see men on the same side slaughter each other, people getting slammed of their horse without even knowing what hit hem and the all the poor souls that fell early and just get trampled by the rest. peak cinema
the plot armour and lack of realism ruins it
@@seancarroll5803 the start of the battle was questionable i agree, but the battle itself was one of the most realistic i have seen
I agree it’s realistic in terms of being grounded, but in medieval battles formations and keeping that formation were the most important part. Jon’s men would’ve broken immediately when they lost cohesion against ramsays superior cavalry and force.
It’s the tv equivalent to the dday scene from saving Private Ryan
@@cassu6 i thought only the romans were really good at keeping formation and creating working tactics. Hence their success conquering so much territory.
Somebody in these comments wrote "Santa" instead of "Sansa", and now I keep reading every single comment as "Santa" and it's killing me 😆
I have been waiting for this reaction for so long
Because Sansa knows the brutality of Ramsey, I believe that she knew that Rickon was never coming home. That is not Ramsey’s style. He has no mercy and he has no understanding of family loyalty. and John could never understand just how ruthless and evil Ramsay truly was, but Sansa did. So her plan, in my mind, was the only plan that could work.
Yeah in her mind Rickon had been already dead for a while. That’s why she could keep her emotions from clouding her judgement.
Then why use saving Rickon as the main argument for Jon to help her form an army? If she truly believed Rickon was beyond saving, than this is her first lie to Jon in a string of lies this season.
@@jcompton8507 Because Jon would've threw the battle in the exact same way as in the show, but now with more troops being fucked and no reinforcements coming to save him. Or Ramsay would've just retreated and held out in Winterfell.
@@cassu6 That...makes no sense.
If TV-Sansa had told TV-Jon from the beginning that they weren't getting Rickon back, then TV-Jon wouldn't have fought _at all_. He told her he had fought enough and wasn't interested in trying to win Winterfell back.
On the other hand, when Book-Jon thought it was "Arya" married to Ramsey (but it was actually Jeyne Poole), they sent a small team of Wildlings (including Mance) to sneak into Winterfell to try to help her escape.
He only started talking about recruiting a group/army to go rescue her himself after he believed the first team had failed.
Been here since 1x1 with you guys just for this ep .
Best Part of this Episode : Next Episode is the BEST EPISODE 🤭🤭💪💪
Best moment ever, Sansa’s little smile as she walked away from her nightmare
i didnt like that, i wish she had remained serious
Sansa is a horribly written character.
@jwhite-1471 maybe, I just saw it as her being free of someone who mentally and physically abused her, and it being a smile of relief. Then again we have to remember it's a tv show that's written to please us and it gives the viewer the satisfaction
@@orcocan yea it felt cartoonish
All the terrible things he's done? I think I would be smiling if I was her as well
Nah be so fr bro sansa telling John what she was planning to do wouldn't change a damn thing lol, first of all all strategy went out the window when rickon got hit, and sansa didn't know if little finger would help her so what would she have told john? "I'm going to get little finger and MAYBE come back with a army idk tho"
Calling out Sansa as "human faulty behavior" but not Jon for charging off alone after Sansa warned him is crazy
Omg this!!! The double standard is insane! And Carter calling Sansa "immature"...wtf?
(Psssssst! Both are just really bad writing on D&D's part to make the episodes "exciting.")
@@dahliadaydream I'm female, and I think Sansa has always been superficial, mean, selfish, self-centered, immature, and a terrible judge of character. That's her whole schtick.
Until D&D decided to beat us over the head with her being "smartest" by either emotionally manipulating, lying to, or undermining her "brother."
Oh! Also promoting isolationism for the North while begging other kingdoms to sacrifice their own men to save her kingdom from first the Boltons and then an Army of Zombies. Afterwards, she wants them to pack up and leave. "Even though you saved us, don't let the door hit you on the way out."
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^SPOILER
Men
It always bugged me that they never got the giant some kind of weapon. Like one of you said, a tree trunk, but I think they could have spent a little time creating him a huge dagger - a knife in his perspective but a massive sword in ours.
Greatest episode ever, first feeling when this episode came out was fckin unbelievable
I know I couldn’t believe how ridiculous it was for the bodies to pile up that fast
I've been waiting for this so much
Sansa was there when her dad got his head chopped off after confronting Cersei and heard about how Robb essentially got himself, their mother, and almost all of their men killed. She didn’t fully trust Jon to make the smart decision and he wasn’t listening to her. She knows Ramsay better than Jon does and a part of that is also some fear that things could go wrong. Sansa has been “raised” to only trust herself because horrible people get out of death all the time. Even in season 2 Sansa knew Joffrey wouldn’t die in the battle of Blackwater because awful boys always live. If Sansa blindly trusted Jon then she would have truly learned nothing through the years. She also knows more about what Littlefinger wants. Knowing what he wants makes her “trust” him for now.
No. It's sh*tty writing don't even try to defend it.
"Did you think to ask me what we should do Jon?!"
"Okay, what should we do Sansa?"
"I DON'T KNOW!!!"
Tf? Lmfao.
@Skylingale Exactly..Sansa used getting there brother back as a primary reason to go after Winterfell and then just says, we will never get him back..to hell with Sansa and her BS.
This is the stupidiest strategy and Jon could have been slaughtered before the Vale arrived. Think of all the Northmen died because she chose to not mention the Knights of the Vale.
Jon killed them, not Sansa@@johnnyskinwalker4095
@@shootingreal5945 Sansa's character kinda dies with this episode; that unnecessarily monstrous betrayal for the sake of shuffling in a bootleg ride of the Rohirrim moment, even if it had been in line with her character (it isn't outside of the many head-cannons people try to spin), from this point on Sansa devolves into the that utterly unsubstantiated 'smartest person Arya's ever met' that irks all those forced to sit through the scant moronic dialogue the writers could muster (she did tell experienced Winter veterans to pad their armour though, so what do I know).
- Least Toxic GoT Fan
lol everyone contemplating upcoming episode 10 “where do we go from here?” -- oh just wait and see -- they gonna hit u in true Game of Thrones style 😮
That whole Jon 1st battle scene was a single shot! This episode is still one of the best TV episode of all time... and the next lol 🫡
You have to remember Sansa wasn’t being listened to, she warned Jon about what Ramsey would do, and Jon just danced into the trap so any plans they had before the battle were destroyed. Sansa became the ace up the sleeve, and won
She's Cersei 2.0.
@@Hyperi0nn she's really not.
it also gave her advantage. she is the one who made the victory happen. she saved the rest of the army. she won Winterfell back. made her a contender
@@mhorrighan She literally kept secret that she could have the Vale's army under her/Littlefinger command, leading to have most of the Stark-Loyalist force killed. Many times she could just have told Jon, but she didn't. She was seeing herself on the North trone, not Jon, which is a half-brother to her and not a "Stark".
Hell, Jon didn't even wanted to retake Winterfell, it's her who pushed him to do it.
@@Hyperi0nn No, it was Jon who got the Stark forces killed because he got baited by Ramsey, even though Sansa directly warned him about the way Ramsey does things. If she had told him about the Vale, he would've gotten those forces killed too probably with his incompetence, or Ramsey would simply bunker up in Winterfell and let them freeze outside the walls.
Jon failed miserably and Sansa won this battle, and she should see herself on the throne because, unlike Jon, she's actually a capable and competent ruler who looks after her people
Never clicked so fast
The tactics and logic behind the battle leave so much to be desired, but besides Hardhome, this episode gave me the most amount of goosebumps and orgasms when it first aired
Lol we were blinded by the big wins. The post orgasm clarity after this season sure felt like a walk of shame.🥲
@@originaozz I KNOW RIGHT? Couldn't have said it better
The wall of bodies makes 0 sense to me. x)
10/10 battle scene out of any show or movie ive watched
It's funny how Daenerys gets praise for standing up for herself after years of abuse while Sansa gets crapped on after being tortured and used by the men in her life for years.
SPOILERS for future season!!!
When has anyone ever crapped on Sansa for killing Ramsay?
Actually, I've seen more people shit on Daenerys. People use her showing no emotion when Viserys died as an example of 'foreshadowing' what she would do.
Sansa killing Ramsay was brilliant. As she should.
Unless you're referring to her not trusting Jon? My issue is she uses Rickon as a reason to get Jon to fight for Winterfell but then says Rickon is guaranteed to die. Why use that as an excuse to get Jon to fight then?
Daenerys still showed trust in her allies. Barristan, Missandei, Grey Worm, Tyrion (even Jorah before she found out he betrayed her and after he returns). Sansa doesn't trust Jon for some reason whom she grew up with. He didn't abuse her. She was actually the bully to him (I'm not calling her abusive as she was like this because of Catelyn and her environment).
Later we see her so quick to forgive Jaime who actually harmed her family by attacking her father, warring with Robb and crippling Bran. She stands up to the wrong people.
Not to mention she thanks her abusers later (to the Hound).
I personally can't stand Dany and I actually find most of the GOT fanbase insufferable because they act like Dany sh*ts gold and rainbows. Everything Dany does is perfect, but if another female character even dares to take action on their own terms, suddenly she is as evil as Cersei. It reminds me of how everyone blindly worships Clark Griffith from The 100, but they hate Octavia with a passion even though she didn't even do a quarter of the BS Clark and her mother did. The more people hate on Sansa, the more I like her.
@rationalcynic8416 - book Sansa is far superior to show Sansa. Sansa at the end was actually vile.
@@rationalcynic8416 I personally can't stand Sansa. She's a mean girl. And selfish. And a bad judge of character. She chooses to trust people with questionable morals (Joff, Cersei, Littlefinger, and even she even _chooses_ to join in with LF's scheme for her to marry Ramsey to take back Winterfell) rather than characters who were probably more trustworthy (Arya, Ned, Septa Mordane, the Hound, Tyrion, Brienne, Lord Royce, Jon)...
That is, until D&D decide to keep telling us over and over how "smart" she is. And we are just supposed to believe it.
The best battle scene in cinema history imo
absolutely not
Because Santa knows the brutality of Ramsey, I believe that she knew that Rickon was never coming home. That is not Ramsey’s style. He has no mercy and he has no understanding of family loyalty. and John could never understand just how ruthless and evil Ramsay was, but Sansa did. So her plan, in my mind, was the only plan that could work.
Especially shitty of her, since Rickon was the reason she used the most to coerce Jon to form an army to take back Winterfell.
She sure was willing to sacrifice her brothers and the Free Folk for her revenge / power grab for Winterfell.
(I say that to counter-argue the excuses you're making for why she did what she did, but in all honesty I think it was just bad writing rather than calculated moves on Sansa's part.)
@@jcompton8507 Pretty sure they found out about Rickon long after they formed the army. Or they would've used Rickon as a banner for the whole North to rally behind whilst forming said army; which is the same reason Ramsay had he locked away without anyone knowing he was alive.
They took back Winterfell because it belongs to their family, for their own security, for its strategic importance and because they needed the North united to face the dead. Which was impossible as long as the Boltons held it.
Rickon was dead regardless, because as long as he lived he was a threat to Bolton rule of the North. And Jon was quite frankly a moron, Sansa was right not to blindly trust him given his blundering.
Sansa was an idiot, because she literally pushed Jon into the war no matter what, she pushed him to bring back Rickon.
It shows her growth that she's not blindly trusting John. All the elements were there but the scene was badly written. Her revenge part was great though
@@piusdoe8984 It didn't make any sense, she literally pushed Jon into a war and she literally said we have to save Rickon, and after that she acted like all smart and wise, "he's already dead". Wtf? Come on, Jon told her they don't have enough men, she didn't care, and now she's a strategist and she "knows" they don't have enough men? Come on.
Yall naive af if you thought there was any way for Rickon to survive. Regardless of the army behind him, Jon would still have fallen for Ramseys trick...
Untrue? If they had a large force it could have started a seige & Ramsey would have needed to keep Rickon alive longer (though how unharmed would be another question).
@@orphanedhanyou Northern castles are impossible to besiege, especially with Winter coming. This is discussed at length in season 1.
Mens opinions on Sansa are always telling...
The shield that John used to protect himself from Ramsey’s arrows at the end belonged to House Mormont! which means what Lyanna said was true.. “Any man from Bear Islands fights with the power of 10 normal soldiers” !!! Even though there were only 62 men from their house! one of them still made it !
Was waiting for this since Carter was talking that ishhh about Dany’s entrance.😂
i think this is the episode that really took the internet by storm when it released. the hype for GOT only exponentially grew from here on out.
Next episode 🙃 - One of the best songs in the entire series.
This episode and the next one are the two best episodes of the entire series.
Couple fun facts..
The shield that Jon picks up inside Winterfell has the Bear Island sigil, proving Lady Mormont’s 62 men made a difference..
After this episode aired, the actor that plays Rikkon tweeted ‘Had a good run #ShouldveZigZagged’
Interesting about his shield… didn’t catch that. And that’s funny what Rickon said. Thanks
The cinematography of this episode was INSANELY AMAZING 🔥 I wish you didn’t blur it that much!
Can’t wait to see THE WINDS OF WINTER !!
edit: 21:02 No she couldn’t tell him, think about it.. do you think John would accept the help from little finger? the one who betrayed Ned Stark and got him killed?!
Jon barely even knows who Littlefinger is. He's been at the Wall.
@@jcompton8507 Even after she reunited with Sansa?
Of course he would, it0s not Littlefingers army.
Oh I'm ready for this episode 😁
Been waiting for this one since y'all started your GoT journey. Hope you love it as much as I do, this is gonna be a good one. I haven't seen the video yet but I give a preventive rip to Carter's legs, poor guys gonna get a slapping
20:35 you okay there carter? XD after proceeding to watch till the end i think this episode might have been a traumatic experience for you haha
i cant wait for the next episode!
the way drogon landed behind dany...GOOSEBUMPS! such an amazing scene
Been waiting for this one!
In Sansa's defence: she's literally spent the entire time since she was reunited with Jon telling him important stuff and proving how smart she is, like let's not forget Sansa spent multiple seasons basically being trained by Cersei, and yet no one fucking listens to her. And no one ever listens to her. For seasons she's low key been making incredible moves despite her situations (she's been playing littlefinger FOR YEARS and we just saw another pay off of that) and no one gives a shit bc she is a woman- and she knows it! she plays into it! But now, when trying to tell Jon hey this isn't smart this isn't gonna work bc I know Ramsey he just doesn't listen. There is only so much a girl, or man, can stand not being listened to and eventually you stop telling (and men can't stand it for a lot shorter than women let me tell you). This was Sansa showing that hey if you gave a shit about my skills and smarts this wouldn't have happened, and yeah that can be frustrating for y'all and stuff but she was literally trying to tell him stuff all episode and if he would have listened she may have mentioned oh I sent a raven to littlefinger, but she probably felt like that would have been brushed of and ridiculed
Most men can’t see how women are treated differently or not taken as seriously. If you point it out, there’s always an excuse.
@@simplysierra9035I wouldn't say that I just think people forgot how Sansa put Peter in his place (2 episodes ago). She couldn't guarantee that he would help after that. That's how I saw it anyway 🤔
Plus every one she ever trusted, has let her down.
I would ve loved if the show went in the direction that Sansa is secretly an evil genius now and wanted Rick and Jon ded by the end of the fight when Vale came so she's the solo heir of the North. But no, the show brushes her and her journey off just like the characters do. I think that's why most audience tend to resent her out of just not understanding her (BCZ THE SHOW DOESN'T GIVE ENUF).
@@Annedrinkstea the villain arc might be like that in movies and books but irl people are more complicated. It really depends on the person and their personality. Sansa went through unimaginable tragedy but remained kind. She wasn’t stupid or naive though. She knew Rickon wasn’t making it before the battle even started. Sometimes when you go through trauma it makes you want to make sure you can stop as many people as you can from going through the same thing.
shits annoying when they ask that when ramsey clearly is good at shooting arrows and was clearly fucking with him on purpose.
prepare for the next guys i cant wait
episode 9 being fire is just game of thrones theme
IN SANSA’s Defence - If she had told Jon the vale was coming when she didn’t know for sure herself, then his strategy would have completely changed and it would have been for nothing if the vale didn’t actually make it, it changed anyway after Jon charged ahead and forced his side to charge rather than wait for ramsay to charge as Davos said, and they would have got wrecked because of this change - plus its understandable she wants to keep quiet about dealing with littlefinger of all people but that shows she is still immature and new to the game still
IN JON’s Defence - If Jon had waited for a larger force with the Vale, then Ramsay would not have come out to meet them in open battle and would have instead planned for a siege, which Jon knows he does not have time for with the walkers coming, he had to attack now as he said
It’s a tough dynamic but completely fair on both sides, peak GOT man I love it. Realistically what happened in ep 9 might have been the only way they won this battle
Yes little more of views from the show and a little less of the coffee table 😳especially during such an epic episode
10:52 bro, what exactly do you have against Sansa? Because she seems to always be pissing you off in one way or another, did you just forget everything she's been through on this show??
Nothing she has been through justifies lying to Jon
@@orphanedhanyou Yes it does. In the Game of Thrones you either win or die. Jon is too stupid to understand this. Indeed, his poor leadership and idiocy is why his own men mutiny and kill him. Jon refuses to play the game and so is a poor confidant.
Love it how a Mormonts shield saved Jon, 62 men were useful in the end!
This and episode 10 definitely are the best
If Jon knew about the army of the Vale, he would’ve included them in the initial line. He would’ve made the same mistake in chasing after Rickon, the Vale would have followed him, and then they would have lost.
Sansa didn’t trust that Jon wouldn’t react before thinking
Sansa has a trust issue after everything she's been through, Jon didn't want to listen to her, she had to ask the guy who sold her for help, so I get. Jon should have died in the first seconds of battle, after Rickon died, he should have been hit by the arrows. he fell easily into Ramsay's trap. I don't like Jon being so dumb on a battlefield, and also about Sansa's decision, they also made her not tell so that there would be an incredible turnaround when no one else expected it, script problems but it's still an incredible episode.
And Jon _doesn't_ have trust issues? He had just been murdered days before she arrived and forced him to form an army to "take back their home and save their little brother."
@@jcompton8507 What one thing have to do with the other? The one that was no listening the other is Jon, not Sansa. Forced? Don’t be stupid. And Sansa tell Jon to NOT attack, why so much rush to die? They should have waited. Jon is so smart that the help of the From the Vale or other armies like Edmure/Blackfish's didn't cross his mind?
@@jcompton8507Sansa has been let down by literally everyone around her, including her own father and brother Robb. Her trust issues rightfully run deep
@@dahliadaydream
Why blame Robb and Ned specifically? Bran, Cat, Arya, and Sansa were just as involved in piling onto the whole mess for their family in Book 1.
But if anyone should be blamed, it should be LF. He started all of this with killing Jon Arryn and blaming the Lannisters. Then he pushed all the right buttons to escalate things between the two families along the way.
Also, we shouldn't forget that, at first, Sansa _chose_ the Lannisters.
Because Joff and Cersei are "beautiful."
And she wanted to marry a prince and be Queen.
She's the one who ran to Cersei to alert her that her father was making moves to send her and Arya home.
@@luis-yx752 What do they have to do with each other? Jon didn't care enough about Winterfell to fight for it. He tells Sansa when they reunite, and she brings up trying to take it back, that he's "done with fighting."
She emotionally manipulates him into raising an army with her by targeting his love for Rickon (when later on she admits that she never believed they would be able to save him).
When he's still reluctant, she says if he doesn't help her, she'll do it herself. (Conversations while still at Castle Black.)
Jon was always doing it to save Rickon first and foremost. He didn't care about his own life, and he already told Sansa he didn't care about fighting for Winterfell itself.
Which is why he threw away their battle plans to try to reach Rickon before the arrow.
At this point, defeating Ramsey and reclaiming Winterfell wasn't worth it if they couldn't save Rickon.
Kit says in the post-episode interview that Jon _wanted_ to die up until the point he was suffocating in the stampede. When facing death again - like that - he made a decision there and then that he in fact wanted to live.
the only way sansa keeping the vale army a secret makes sense is that ramsey had winterfell and he brought his army out to fight a pitched battle one on one only because his army was bigger than jons....if he saw the knights of the vale join jons army before the fight began he would have moved his forces into winterfell and since jon didnt have siege weapons' it wouldve gone another way
still....in 2016 when this came out every one HATED sansa for not telling jon at least and not even trying to save rickon...AND everyone was screaming at rickon to fucking zigzag:p
Now that's a really good pro-Sansa point!
Unlike all the "sHe's a giRL" statements filling up this comments section
@@humzakhalid7902I mean it also just makes sense not to tell John as that boy can’t keep his mouth shut and is very hard headed.
Also, there is no way that the Bolton scouts wouldn't have seen the army coming. We already know from scene where Ramsey had "Reek" be "Theon" that the Boltons held Moat Cailin....which is near the Neck, so the army from the Vale would have had to pass pretty damn close to it on the way to Winterfell with no one noticing.
So this point is moot.
Because Ramsey _should_ have forced a siege situation.
This battle is all-around ridiculous.
This epsiode is the epitomy of what went wrong with the series. RANT. SPOILERS!!!
With the later seasons. It's all spectacle over substance.
1. The Knights of the Vale just happened to teleport past Moat Cailin and march all the way to Winterfell as basically foreign invaders for the first time in thousands of years and NO ONE noticed? That is the most unbelievable bs ever. And don't get me started on the implications and consequences for this. Sansa literally got thousands of men killed and almost got jon killed. They could have easily chosen a more practical strategy with the same outcome, minus the thousands of dead Stark-Loyalists. The worst aspect however is, that Jon N E V E R challenges her about it in any way. It is literally a betrayal, completely without consequence.
2. A giant without a weapon. For plot-reasons Wun-Wun doesn't get a log and some wooden planks as Armor to solo the entire Bolton forces. Seriously why the hell did they not give him ANYTHING to fight with? He literally used a massive log at Hardome, destroying dozens of Wights with a single swing. Here he fights bareheanded. W H Y.
3. Ramsay pointlessly shoots the giant instead instead of killing jon.
4. Ramsay has an impossible accuracy with his boy.
5. Jon Snow is starting to reveal his plot armor
6. The Battle, great to look at, but from a tactical and logical point of view absolutely ridicolous. Convinient MOUNTAINS of dead people, Jon is on foot in the middle of a huge clash of cavalry but does not get trampeled by either side, seriously, they play it like he was "saved" just in time, but in order for that to happen, they would have needed to get around and ahead of him, wich they don't. The Bolton set up their shield wall, while the characters just stand around and watch. Seriously, they don't move to disrupt their formation, they just stare at it, doing nothing.
7. One of the last trueborn sons of Eddard Stark gets murdered and NO ONE CARES or mentions it ever again.
This battle is a milestone for television. It looks fantastic, but as with many of the good looking things. It makes no sense once you stop to think about it.
Was gonna comment about this. I'm not hating, but I don't love this episode for the same reasons you listed
Greatly written!
Its among the first failures
Lol none of the battles in this show made any sense. Blackwater and the Wildlings assault on castle black made even less sense than this did and nobody says anything.
They're just cool things to look at as a payoff for all the people who find the political maneuvering boring. All the battles that happen after this one are logistically stupid too but that's not the point.
@seanyoung9014 it's not even the bad tactics for me, it's the characters not acting like themselves.
Sansa’s smirk at the end is the most epic thing in this episode.
not even close
How lol
Carson cracks me up. While Carter is stoked, he’s grabbing his head or slouched over.
This is on my top 3 episode of all time the other 2 is 3x9 and blackwater
Yes I’ve been waiting for you to see this episode !!!! 😎💯🤟
One of GoT's top episodes for sure... Poor Kit Harington: the cavalry charge was real...
this is my favourite episode of a tv show ever
Off topic, Cannon.... your hair looks so cute in the beginning of the video!😍🤩
The White Walkers are not end game. Martin has said repeatedly that there WILL be a "scouring of the Shire" after the obvious threat is dealt with. In this story that means when the threat of ice is handled the threat of fire is next.
For one of the best scenes, it sucks you guys had to censor so much. The amount you had to edit out was insane, we were mostly just reading subtitles
How can you say that Sansa is immature, salty and whatever. She was spitting facts. Stop being biased against Sansa. Sansa didnt tell them because she has no guarantee that the knights of the vale are gonna come. They are still ruled by the prick of a cousin and untrustable LF.
'Spitting facts' you say?
"Did you think to ask me what we should do Jon?!"
"Okay, what should we do Sansa?"
"I DON'T KNOW!!!"
Damn she was spitting facts like crazy lmao.
Yet, nothing she said was useful.
Still could have brought it up!!😂
@@JessYapping Why would she do this? The entire point was to goad Jon into attacking Winterfell despite his army's hopeless size. This lures Ramsey out. If she tells Jon and he refuses to engage, Ramsey just marches back behind the walls of Winterfell and wins by default. The Vale gambit only works if it is a complete surprise.
Idk if it has been said, but Daenerys wasn't looking at Tyrion for approval, he was showing her how to do a proper handshake, because she is unfamiliar with the customs of Westeros since she has been on the run her whole life. You can see him kind of mime how to do it.
"zigzag rickon" trended on twitter during this episode lmao the boy did not zigzag
RIP Wun Weg Wun dar Wun, the last remaining giant.
Many miss a tiny detail: look at Daenerys' index finger. She actually points out where Drogon should land. That's mommy's power :)
Whenever you guys say "shoutout to maddie" i'm like "wait, Jack and McKays sister is also an artist?? Y'all got a whole family business going here" and then I remember that it's not a unique name in the slightest and I feel slightly more foolish to kick off my day. Staying humble is better than being overconfident I suppose.
I LOVE Sansa. Jon is the one that frustrates me lol. He didn't listen to Sansa, fell for Ramseys trick, forced his men to follow to protect him after he rode solo into the opposing army, causing thousands of deaths and their near certain defeat had it not been for Sansa....
For merch, you guys should have done a House Gek shirt - a banner with with your logo as sigil/coat-of-arms as if you were one of the houses of Westeros
Cannon and his new haircut 😳🫠
Funnily enough, Iwan Rheon (Ramsay) is purportedly such a sweetheart. There’s an interview where he talks about the dogs and how he wanted to go pet them, so he goes, “oh hello doggy!” However they immediately pulled him away because they were actually very dangerous dogs. He never even had a scene with them. Nice reaction men!
Love the shirts guys 🔥🔥🔥
Never fails to amuse me when men, once again, blame Sansa for the actions of *men* going into childish wars without putting into context what it’s like in Sansa’s shoes, comprehending the trauma and abuse she went through.
Yet Jon gets all the pass and credit for every stupid decision he’s ever made. Sansa did warn Jon, many times. Because she knew that he is just as stupid and self-righteous as their father was.
Oh shut up.
Alot of Men, as you say, have little sisters and have gone through similar stuff (in terms of the quandary, not the life or death event).
It's hard to understand, especially from a masculine perspective Why Sansa did what she did, especially when there were not many scenes showing Sansa's plan come through. She simply isn't given enough screen time and when she is, it seems that what she's doing is arbitrary. It takes time to hash out why Sansa acted the way she did.
Many are so focused on Jon and Wildling lives. We don't see any of the struggle or work Sansa needs to go through in order to make her plan kick off, much of it is inferred, and is easier to internalize once you really understand the geography and wider politics.
@thedappermagician6905 it's not that complicated, you just need some empathy and to use your brain for a second. While they were getting annoyed with Sansa, John was the one being hard headed and treating her like a girl who couldn't possibly understand the situation
Of course the mentally ill take comes from the person with the rainbow pfp lmao.
"Did you think to ask me what we should do Jon?!"
"Okay, what should we do Sansa?"
"I DON'T KNOW!!!"
Listen to Sansa you guys. She's the smartest person ever, Arya says so herself!
@@Skylingalewho let you out?
That sounds....Misandrist.
BEST 9&10 OF THE SERIES 🎉🎉🎉 idgaf at all what the critics say about logistics on these. They're spectacular!
4x9 and 4x10 are far superior
@@seancarroll5803tru, these two are fun though in their own silly ways.
Hard disagree. They're still great. 4x10 is my second favorite finale.
also the last 9 & 10 in the series :DD
@@zeroknight4517 You're right 😂 definitely the best
been waiting for the 7x4 reaction
Next ep is the best
I've been waiting for this reaction since y'all started season 6, but the opacity on the episode is so low, makes it hard to see what the heck is going on. I understand it's because of copyright though. Anyway, I do agree that they should've given Wun Wun a weapon, but he's definitely still the MVP. I hate that he died, RIP. Jon being in that pile always makes me feel claustrophobic too.
The end of the Boltons is finally here! Good call on feeding Ramsay to his dogs, Carter. Pretty much everyone after this episode aired, talked about how Rickon should've zigzagged or something. Still sucks he died though, RIP to the youngest of the Stark children.
It's funny too that this episode starts off with Dany basically doing what Carter wanted her to do last episode. 😂 See, you just had to wait and it works better the way the show did it, imo.
I also don't understand why Wun Wun didn't use his feet, to stamp and kick those Bolton soldiers to pulp.
Great episode.
the episode ive been waiting for
Remember Sansa originally tells Jon at Castle Black "we have to go back and save them both". Winterfell AND Rickon. But now she admits she knew all along that Ramsey would never let Rickon get away. She just says this now to manipulate Jon into doing what she wants. She doesn't want to look foolish if Littlefinger doesn't show so she lies vs let Jon know they just need to wait a day or two for them to arrive/get a return raven. By then if they heard nothing they would know he wasn't coming. But Sansa got mad (rightfully) at Littlefinger... but she blew her "cover" with him & she couldn't know if he would "bite" at the chance to get back in her good graces.
Ngl, im so glad you all watched lord of the rings before this episode. So many moments in this episode reminded me of Rohan and Aragon
Sansa does not trust Littlefinger. I believe she wanted to delay the use of the Vale because she would then be indebted to the very man who sold her off to the Boltons.
Also, if Jon knew about the Vale, and knowing his honesty.. he probably would have mentioned that they had the power of the Vale as well during the meeting with Ramsey, thus losing the element of surprise.
You forget Jon can't, and won't, lie. He is too honest.. just like Ned. Sansa can hide that information very well. She didn't want to use the Vale, but it was there as a precaution in case Jon did fall for Ramsey's trap despite her warnings; which he did anyways.
There's always the risk of Littlefinger never showing up as well.
Adding the extra layer of Sansa's mistrust in people due to experiences and you get this as a result.
It makes sense.
That's my POV at least.
Ramsey would never have his army outside Winterfell and be so offensive like this if he knew they had the Vale with them. Also Jon would never attack Ramsey and Winterfell if he knew the vale would come to aid. I think Sansa kinda was thinking about this and was cold enough to keep it to herself. And she wasnt fully trusting Littlefinger to come.
Just to clarify, the guy you kept calling Karstark is actually Jon “Smalljon” Umber. There was a scene in a previous episode where he and Lord Karstark swore to Ramsay, but Karstark didn’t show up again after that.
If you think about it, it’s kinda messed up that Smalljon’s father, Greatjon Umber, was the first to declare Robb the King of the North back in season 1. The Umbers really turned into some big-time traitors.
I have to imagine there were Bolton spies on Jon's side, so Ramsay would have found out about Littlefinger and never would have left Winterfell if he believed Vale forces were on their way.
Sansa: "You've been planning strategies and you've never asked me what we should do
John: Fine, what should we do?
Sansa: I DON'T KNOW, I DONT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT BATTLES
Great logic
Amazing people still don't understand what's going on here. Sansa is goading Jon to attack. Given their weakness, any sensible commander would abandon the field but Jon proves what an idiot he is and how easily he can be manipulated. Jon's forces need to be weak so that Ramsey will abandon his superior defensive position behind the walls of Winterfell and engage.
@gunkulator1 Okay... 1, John couldn't call off the attack when his brothers life was on the line being hold hostage by Ramsey... 2. Sansa is not as smart as everyone says she is because she would have just told Jon about Little Fingers army in the Vale if she had half a fucking brain... so no it's not that she had a plan, its just the writing was starting to deteriorate
@@3y35poihjpn Nope. Sansa is straight up lying to Jon and purposefully not telling him. Did you miss the scene where Brienne calls out Sansa for not telling Jon about LF? Right after that Sansa sends Brienne away on a useless quest. She's getting rid of Brienne so that she does not let on about LF.
Please think it through about telling Jon. Jon is basically a pawn here, a sacrifice, a lure to get Ramsey to come out from behind the walls of Winterfell. You don't tell sacrificial troops that they are about to be sacrificed. Do you think Robb Stark told the 2000 northerners he sacrificed in season 1 that they were all about to be slaughtered? Why was Robb smart but Sansa doing the same thing means she doesn't have a brain?
@gunkulator1 You're saying that she thinks of her own brother as a sacrificial lamb... that's so utterly dumb, I mean the writing obviously deteriorates and instead of getting their armies to link up and have a chance she let's so many people die before littlefingers army comes... its not being smart its just letting people die until you remember to help.. because she is very useless
@@3y35poihjpn Robb Stark literally risks his entire family for his overdeveloped sense of honor, is that utterly dumb too? Double standard much? But to answer the question: Yes, of course Sansa is willing to risk Jon's life. That's kinda the nature of war in the first place. If there was some other plan that would have worked that didn't risk Jon, I'd love to hear it. Again, if Sansa tells Jon to wait for the Vale to arrive, Ramsey does not abandon his superior position behind the walls of Winterfell. He stays put and wins by default. The Vale is forced to retreat because of Winter and then in the Spring Ramsey makes good on his promise, sends his men north to Castle Black and slaughters everyone.
On a related note: what show do you think you're watching? This is Game of Thrones. Death, war and sacrifices have been part of this show from episode 1. Why are you suddenly so appalled by it now? And let's hear your plan for victory.
Cant blame Jon
Anybody would have charged for a brother there 🥲