question so i a track fader it reads 0 sometimes go over but on my vu meter its nice right at 0 should i turn the gain control down to put it -6 or leave it because it reads 0 on the vu meter
I set my levels to max out at 0 on the vu meter. Then vocal rider seems function well. It’s a flexible plug in, but this is how I do it Remember to adjust your output level after the fader riding again to get to 0 vu
@@BillGraper I stopped and waves plugins are trash. I like the Greg Wells Voice centric and Mix centric ones tho. Now I use 2 compressors each with a lighter setting to get that texture. Currently using Slate digital compressors and Softtube CLB
Waves WLM Meters is great for the job. It is relatively new. The deal is you have use your mix tool in Pro Tools or mix tool in studio one and make sure your incoming signal into each channel in no more than -18db. Any more than that will clip your analog plug-ins on the incoming signal side. If that is not done you cannot mix because everything is distorted be before you even work on it right. I was killing myself trying to mix distorted signals. Now its like butter, smooth.
i'm scratching my head on this one as well, if i gainstage everything at around -18, lets say.. use eq to boost some frequencies plus compression here and there and i'm up to -10 if not more usually, do i mix with -10 being a goal for mastering or?
Thanks for the great video! I understand that analog hardware or analog emulated plugins work best when the input signal is at around 0 VU, so that's why we're doing gain staging with VU meter. But here's my question: when I set the levels of tracks like drum (which has more transients than sustain) to be at around 0VU, sometimes it's peak are over 0 dBFS. So should I just set the peaks to be at -18~-10 dBFS regardless of VU meter? I just wonder if cliping in dBFS is the thing that must never happen in every step of mixing because it can be distorted when they go into analog emuated plugins.
What is the use of calibration options such as - 18db, - 4db of headroom etc. Does it mean that when set to e.g. - 4db... that in general one would be led to gain stage everything to a much higher resulting volume? Say we be listening a mastered commercially ready track (-14lufs) and we bring in the vu meter. On which calibration settings would we be able to get real true readings? I believe the calibration is most of the time dependent on the ratio we set through calibration (we could always hit zero for example no matter what the calibration setting may be set, we just needed to adjust the input volume before VU meter). Great video, on point, mature. Thank you
I am not completely sure I understand the question but I'll give it a go. If I have misinterpreted your question please let me know. The crucial point is that the zero on a VU is a sort of "target to hit" so that you can control your audio levels. In many cases, you would try and get the signal around that level by turning up or down gain on your equipment. So in essence, yes, you just need to adjust the input volume before the VU. To answer the other part of your question is more complicated and for the sake of simplicity, I am assuming that you are just using a digital representation of a VU meter rather than actually using analogue outboard equipment. In the analogue domain, volume units (VU) are usually calibrated to set 0VU to equal 1.228 volts RMS (read volts average), this electrical signal strength is a good compromise between avoiding hiss and noise-floor of the equipment and recording too hot and the equipment beginning to distort. Of course, if you wanted to you could calibrate a VU meter to zero at another signal strength, but that is more unusual in the analogue world. In the digital domain, signals are a series of samples (read binary numbers) and not a varying voltage. If there are no volts to measure, you need to find another agreed standard to set 0VU to. The most common dBFS RMS readings to calibrate to are -18 and -20. This gives you a good amount of overall headroom to avoid clipping. Most of the analogue modelled plug-ins I know zero at -18dBFS RMS. However, many digital VU meters allow you change that to whatever you want, some people I know set it to zero at -14 dBFS RMS (for popular music) as it generally has much less dynamic range anyway. The higher your "target" level the less room you have before the clipping point. Remember that RMS is a kind of average level, so the peak levels will usually be much higher. The higher you calibrate the digital VU to the less dynamic range you will typically need to avoid clipping. Digital VUs are a nice visual representation of signal strength that many engineers like. This is because they don't bounce around too much and are easily readable. If you are looking for a more precise measurement you are better off with dBFS RMS or if you are mastering the LUFS system is great too. I have done a video on these different meters here: th-cam.com/video/jeBjyHm5LKc/w-d-xo.html Hope this helps.
Can other plugins that have a VU-METER on them be used... ( instead of a simple VU-METER ) For example - the tape plugin shown in this video? What I mean is Why use a simple VU-METER? Isn't it better to use a plugin with a VU-METER included with buttons ( for more control? ) Another example is the Kramer HLS Chanel -Plugin That has a VU-METER attached to it. Why get a simple VU-METER Instead of a plugin with a VU-METER included with buttons and switches?
almost 15 years now. However, a lot of the knowledge in this video is theoretical rather than practical and I am planning to make a theory of sound series soon!
If you are looking to clipping specifically for a "sound" you might want to try clipping analog equipment or a soft clipping plug-in. It sounds very different to digital clipping :)
Since i don't know that much anyway I must ask why did you make a mix track and call it SUB 3 & 4 when that looks like that would be the same audio info you would be seeing in your master fader vu ladder?
Are you asking why I am using an Aux to route the mix to rather than a master fader? If so it is because the fader automation is after the plug-ins on an aux, meaning that any volume automation on the overall mix is not sending my volume into the mix bus processing. A master fader the volume is pre inserts, so this would particularly mess up any compression and distortion on the mix. In regards to the bussing out of 3-4 there is nothing significant there. I just have some stereo busses for references, one for the mix and one for the rough, each routing to the externals of my console.
Great explanation! Just one question: Feeding the input of the J37 with the VU meter as a guide, is the input of the J37 calibrated to another level than -18 dBFS? Otherwise you could just feed the signal to the J37 directly (as it also have a VU meter)? I am probably getting this wrong? :)
Waves tend to calibrate to -18dBFS but remember this is a some wave at 1K so your results may vary dependant on the transient or sustained nature of the sound you are feeding into it. My advice is that you listen for the type of saturation you are intending to achieve, in the most cases this will be somewhere between -6 and 0 VU but pushing it harder will also give cool effects.
Cool track) The one that you like straight away. But talking about the topic - i am lost. Some people say mix with -10 dbfs, others -18 (rms or peak?!) This video helps a lot, but at the end i think i'll just stick to making static mixes using pre-gain knob with a decent amount of headroom and that's it. Be it -10 or whatever. And then just work with bus faders for better or worse. Brilliant video, thank you!
Ultimately I think it’s important to try lots of ideas and do what works for you. As we saw in the video there are several ways to gain stage with a VU and other ways to do it without. I’ve tried lots of things and I know a lot of people like using a VU. Personally, I tend to just use clip gain to achieve a good rough balance with faders at zero (initially) and mix bus absolute loudest peak of the song around -6dBFS (peak).
I highly recommend klanghelm vu meter deluxe . trim , hp/lp and lots of metering options ..and some fancy gui . Go check it out , the developers creates amazing stuff at a verry democratic price
so lots of people say from what ive gained from vu meters and gain staging are fluent in all their information , it is also constant information ! unlike most content on the you tube and forums, that conflicts, but on this it is solid . but you say its all wrong ! so are you right and all are wrong? subjection is not cutting it on this mate really. I have cross reference what you say , if honest your conflicting concerns dont add up to the collect views on it, zero ,vu = -18 db, thats all there is to it really, everyone agrees there is also ppm to consider in all of this and lufs . so metering is important, information on this part of production for commercial release has to be solid! A good starting point on all tracks for mixing, bring all tracks/stems via gain staging to -18 db. with faders set to 0 db fastest way to do this is to trim/gain to, 0 vu what = - 18 db. then mix and pan from there simple, leave a minimum of -6 db headroom for the master , all music hitting streaming sites today should leave mastering at -14 / 16 lufs anything more and all streaming sites will compress your levels , making your track sound shite !!!!!!!
No, I am not saying others are wrong. However, what I am saying is that they are only usually presenting some of the useful information (most likely because they haven't had to use things like a tape machine before) just stating -18 dBFS = 0VU is only HALF of the puzzle. The key to this boiled down to something quotable is: "Comparing peak meters (like dBFS) and average meters (VU) is like comparing apples to oranges" When you see a manufacturer stating that equipment is calibrated so that -18 dBFS = 0VU they do this with a constant sine wave at 1k, which for many reasons is an appropriate thing to do. HOWEVER, THIS DOES NOT MEAN THAT -18 dBFS = 0VU. If a tone is consistent then the peak and average level will be the same. On real instruments though, the peak and average levels will NOT be the same so a peak reading of -18dBFS is NOT guaranteed to be 0VU. Transient sources like kick and snares are likely to read high on a peak meter (like dBFS) and low on a meter which is averaging (like VU). Anyone that has used tape regularly will realise that very quickly. If you just want a rough and simple guideline to get a reasonable amount of headroom to do an in the box mix, reducing channels to -18dBFS, that is fine. However, if you want to interface different digital and analogue equipment together the argument is much more nuanced than that.
If you bring down the levels of everything the plug ins you've used won't react the same, this isn't great practice really. You'd be better off going through the mix and tweaking rather than just bringing everything down
You've missed the point here. The idea is that you do this BEFORE you add any plug-ins to get the levels more under control before you begin the mix. If something has been diligently recorded with headroom you won't really need to reduce the level of everything and can just do one or two things.
You May Have A Point, @4K360 But Gainstaging Is Before & After Sending Them Instrument/Drum Channels To Their Respective Mixer Channels & Adding Any Effects To Them 🙂
@@MusaDays808 who could say anything against things are like things are? Just do it and if you like it, yeah enjoy it. Often it's the process itself which is enjoyable. The doing so to say. I only can speak from my perspective...since I gain stage with VUMT from Klanghelm, my mixes improved a lot. I use it in the first of all steps, to set the basic volume of all tracks and to even out uneven tracks like vocals and bass and such. It's become an unreplacable tool for level riding and set everything the way I want my headroom to be in sum. It's a bit of work, especially to adjust tasks like voices manually bit for bit by hand, but it's so rewarding. Your channel strip will love that preparation and than you got the perfect base for the next step, sound sculpting and driving the analog emulations and such. And of course you keep the volume the same, every step you add. Cheers
Good stuff! Every video on VUs and gain staging adds another piece of the puzzle. Time to crank up the DAW and get some practicals in.
Incredible teaching skills! Thank you 🙏
question so i a track fader it reads 0 sometimes go over but on my vu meter its nice right at 0 should i turn the gain control down to put it -6 or leave it because it reads 0 on the vu meter
This was great! Best explanation period. Thanks a lot.
Great video! the very last part was kinda lost for me though.
Where would be a good “target” level for waves vocal rider, for vocals specifically. Would it be -18?
I set my levels to max out at 0 on the vu meter.
Then vocal rider seems function well.
It’s a flexible plug in, but this is how I do it
Remember to adjust your output level after the fader riding again to get to 0 vu
Are you still using the vocal rider? I passed on it, because I prefer to use compressors.
@@BillGraper I stopped and waves plugins are trash. I like the Greg Wells Voice centric and Mix centric ones tho.
Now I use 2 compressors each with a lighter setting to get that texture. Currently using Slate digital compressors and Softtube CLB
@@gxp958 Awesome! It looks like you've found your 'style'. I love watching videos, learning, and figuring out what works best for me.
Waves WLM Meters is great for the job. It is relatively new. The deal is you have use your mix tool in Pro Tools or mix tool in studio one and make sure your incoming signal into each channel in no more than -18db. Any more than that will clip your analog plug-ins on the incoming signal side. If that is not done you cannot mix because everything is distorted be before you even work on it right. I was killing myself trying to mix distorted signals. Now its like butter, smooth.
i'm scratching my head on this one as well, if i gainstage everything at around -18, lets say.. use eq to boost some frequencies plus compression here and there and i'm up to -10 if not more usually, do i mix with -10 being a goal for mastering or?
Voosh Moozik if it sounds good, then it is.
is it allowed to use the gain setting of the file instead of using a plugin?, kind of unnecesary the gain plugin if I can tweak it this other way
After doing gain staging
When I throw some eq comp it’s clipping again what should I do???
Thanks for the great video! I understand that analog hardware or analog emulated plugins work best when the input signal is at around 0 VU, so that's why we're doing gain staging with VU meter. But here's my question: when I set the levels of tracks like drum (which has more transients than sustain) to be at around 0VU, sometimes it's peak are over 0 dBFS. So should I just set the peaks to be at -18~-10 dBFS regardless of VU meter? I just wonder if cliping in dBFS is the thing that must never happen in every step of mixing because it can be distorted when they go into analog emuated plugins.
What is the use of calibration options such as - 18db, - 4db of headroom etc. Does it mean that when set to e.g. - 4db... that in general one would be led to gain stage everything to a much higher resulting volume?
Say we be listening a mastered commercially ready track (-14lufs) and we bring in the vu meter. On which calibration settings would we be able to get real true readings? I believe the calibration is most of the time dependent on the ratio we set through calibration (we could always hit zero for example no matter what the calibration setting may be set, we just needed to adjust the input volume before VU meter).
Great video, on point, mature. Thank you
I am not completely sure I understand the question but I'll give it a go. If I have misinterpreted your question please let me know.
The crucial point is that the zero on a VU is a sort of "target to hit" so that you can control your audio levels. In many cases, you would try and get the signal around that level by turning up or down gain on your equipment. So in essence, yes, you just need to adjust the input volume before the VU.
To answer the other part of your question is more complicated and for the sake of simplicity, I am assuming that you are just using a digital representation of a VU meter rather than actually using analogue outboard equipment.
In the analogue domain, volume units (VU) are usually calibrated to set 0VU to equal 1.228 volts RMS (read volts average), this electrical signal strength is a good compromise between avoiding hiss and noise-floor of the equipment and recording too hot and the equipment beginning to distort.
Of course, if you wanted to you could calibrate a VU meter to zero at another signal strength, but that is more unusual in the analogue world.
In the digital domain, signals are a series of samples (read binary numbers) and not a varying voltage. If there are no volts to measure, you need to find another agreed standard to set 0VU to. The most common dBFS RMS readings to calibrate to are -18 and -20. This gives you a good amount of overall headroom to avoid clipping.
Most of the analogue modelled plug-ins I know zero at -18dBFS RMS.
However, many digital VU meters allow you change that to whatever you want, some people I know set it to zero at -14 dBFS RMS (for popular music) as it generally has much less dynamic range anyway. The higher your "target" level the less room you have before the clipping point. Remember that RMS is a kind of average level, so the peak levels will usually be much higher. The higher you calibrate the digital VU to the less dynamic range you will typically need to avoid clipping.
Digital VUs are a nice visual representation of signal strength that many engineers like. This is because they don't bounce around too much and are easily readable. If you are looking for a more precise measurement you are better off with dBFS RMS or if you are mastering the LUFS system is great too.
I have done a video on these different meters here:
th-cam.com/video/jeBjyHm5LKc/w-d-xo.html
Hope this helps.
Can other plugins that have a VU-METER on them be used...
( instead of a simple VU-METER )
For example - the tape plugin shown in this video?
What I mean is
Why use a simple VU-METER?
Isn't it better to use a plugin with a VU-METER included with buttons
( for more control? )
Another example is the
Kramer HLS Chanel -Plugin
That has a VU-METER attached to it.
Why get a simple VU-METER
Instead of a plugin with a VU-METER included with buttons and switches?
I find I get great maximum impact with minimum voltage line trimming with faders on Max (+10 db) back until it hits bout 2+ on the vu.
I could be wrong but from looking at the height of your waveforms they al seem to be clipped , unless it's just a vertical zoom in
This is great.Well done. !
do you calibrate the vu meter to -18 ,thanks
Really like your videos. Good stuff!! Some DAW's have a gain feature after routing on the mixer. i do what your explaining every mix..
Brilliant & Interesting Video.⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ Thanks
All this technical stuff, Never had this , This man
Wow, you really know your stuff. How long have you been in your career? I want to be as knowledgeable as you one day.
almost 15 years now. However, a lot of the knowledge in this video is theoretical rather than practical and I am planning to make a theory of sound series soon!
i wish i could see where u clicked(too fast to see), how much db u took the volume down, which plugin u activate etc.
This was my first video, in a while. The others should be a bit smoother. Some audio issues with the mic on this too.
Really nice content, love it! Just one question; isn't it good to clip in "digital" dance music? Seems so
If you are looking to clipping specifically for a "sound" you might want to try clipping analog equipment or a soft clipping plug-in.
It sounds very different to digital clipping :)
Since i don't know that much anyway I must ask why did you make a mix track and call it SUB 3 & 4 when that looks like that would be the same audio info you would be seeing in your master fader vu ladder?
Are you asking why I am using an Aux to route the mix to rather than a master fader?
If so it is because the fader automation is after the plug-ins on an aux, meaning that any volume automation on the overall mix is not sending my volume into the mix bus processing. A master fader the volume is pre inserts, so this would particularly mess up any compression and distortion on the mix.
In regards to the bussing out of 3-4 there is nothing significant there. I just have some stereo busses for references, one for the mix and one for the rough, each routing to the externals of my console.
Pete Dawson! 😁😄🤣 I know your voice..awesome teacher you are.👍🏿
Set Vu meter Headroom-9 Delay-5ms
Great explanation! Just one question: Feeding the input of the J37 with the VU meter as a guide, is the input of the J37 calibrated to another level than -18 dBFS? Otherwise you could just feed the signal to the J37 directly (as it also have a VU meter)? I am probably getting this wrong? :)
Waves tend to calibrate to -18dBFS but remember this is a some wave at 1K so your results may vary dependant on the transient or sustained nature of the sound you are feeding into it.
My advice is that you listen for the type of saturation you are intending to achieve, in the most cases this will be somewhere between -6 and 0 VU but pushing it harder will also give cool effects.
Cool track) The one that you like straight away. But talking about the topic - i am lost. Some people say mix with -10 dbfs, others -18 (rms or peak?!) This video helps a lot, but at the end i think i'll just stick to making static mixes using pre-gain knob with a decent amount of headroom and that's it. Be it -10 or whatever. And then just work with bus faders for better or worse. Brilliant video, thank you!
Ultimately I think it’s important to try lots of ideas and do what works for you.
As we saw in the video there are several ways to gain stage with a VU and other ways to do it without.
I’ve tried lots of things and I know a lot of people like using a VU. Personally, I tend to just use clip gain to achieve a good rough balance with faders at zero (initially) and mix bus absolute loudest peak of the song around -6dBFS (peak).
audioproductiontips Thank you very much!👍
I highly recommend klanghelm vu meter deluxe .
trim , hp/lp and lots of metering options ..and some fancy gui .
Go check it out , the developers creates amazing stuff at a verry democratic price
Thank you for the video.
Thanks for watching!
Cheers.
wow!...thnx for that...
Gain staging is the most important step to a mix
so lots of people say from what ive gained from vu meters and gain staging are fluent in all their information ,
it is also constant information !
unlike most content on the you tube and forums,
that conflicts, but on this it is solid .
but you say its all wrong !
so are you right and all are wrong?
subjection is not cutting it on this mate really.
I have cross reference what you say ,
if honest your conflicting concerns dont add up to the collect views on it,
zero ,vu = -18 db, thats all there is to it really,
everyone agrees
there is also ppm to consider in all of this and lufs .
so metering is important, information on this part of production for commercial release has to be solid!
A good starting point on all tracks for mixing,
bring all tracks/stems via gain staging to -18 db. with faders set to 0 db
fastest way to do this is to trim/gain to, 0 vu what = - 18 db.
then mix and pan from there
simple,
leave a minimum of -6 db headroom for the master ,
all music hitting streaming sites today should leave mastering at -14 / 16 lufs
anything more and all streaming sites will compress your levels , making your track sound shite !!!!!!!
No, I am not saying others are wrong. However, what I am saying is that they are only usually presenting some of the useful information (most likely because they haven't had to use things like a tape machine before) just stating -18 dBFS = 0VU is only HALF of the puzzle.
The key to this boiled down to something quotable is: "Comparing peak meters (like dBFS) and average meters (VU) is like comparing apples to oranges"
When you see a manufacturer stating that equipment is calibrated so that -18 dBFS = 0VU they do this with a constant sine wave at 1k, which for many reasons is an appropriate thing to do. HOWEVER, THIS DOES NOT MEAN THAT -18 dBFS = 0VU. If a tone is consistent then the peak and average level will be the same. On real instruments though, the peak and average levels will NOT be the same so a peak reading of -18dBFS is NOT guaranteed to be 0VU. Transient sources like kick and snares are likely to read high on a peak meter (like dBFS) and low on a meter which is averaging (like VU). Anyone that has used tape regularly will realise that very quickly.
If you just want a rough and simple guideline to get a reasonable amount of headroom to do an in the box mix, reducing channels to -18dBFS, that is fine. However, if you want to interface different digital and analogue equipment together the argument is much more nuanced than that.
Oh, and LUFS meters are a different argument altogether. Your statement on integrated LUFS levels for streaming platforms is 100% correct.
If you bring down the levels of everything the plug ins you've used won't react the same, this isn't great practice really. You'd be better off going through the mix and tweaking rather than just bringing everything down
You've missed the point here. The idea is that you do this BEFORE you add any plug-ins to get the levels more under control before you begin the mix. If something has been diligently recorded with headroom you won't really need to reduce the level of everything and can just do one or two things.
You May Have A Point, @4K360 But Gainstaging Is Before & After Sending Them Instrument/Drum Channels To Their Respective Mixer Channels & Adding Any Effects To Them 🙂
@@MusaDays808 isn't gain staging a perpetual process during the complete mixing project?
@@nichttuntun3364 You Could Say That. But I Gainstage & Mix As I Go 🙂
Well, That's Just Me. I May Be Right Or Wrong But Then Again That's That 😃
@@MusaDays808 who could say anything against things are like things are? Just do it and if you like it, yeah enjoy it. Often it's the process itself which is enjoyable. The doing so to say. I only can speak from my perspective...since I gain stage with VUMT from Klanghelm, my mixes improved a lot. I use it in the first of all steps, to set the basic volume of all tracks and to even out uneven tracks like vocals and bass and such. It's become an unreplacable tool for level riding and set everything the way I want my headroom to be in sum. It's a bit of work, especially to adjust tasks like voices manually bit for bit by hand, but it's so rewarding. Your channel strip will love that preparation and than you got the perfect base for the next step, sound sculpting and driving the analog emulations and such. And of course you keep the volume the same, every step you add. Cheers