(Re-upload) Or Brazil Comes to You | Brazil Cold War Armor Part 2
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 พ.ค. 2021
- Brazil was a country of opposites in terms of armored vehicles during the Cold War. It went from a country completely dependent on imported equipment to a country that managed to build its own main battle tank, which was able to compete with the established industries of the time, in a span of less than 20 years. Not only that, but in just 9 years after the very first armored vehicle, the VETE T-1 A-1 Cutia, was built, it became a large arms exporter. In 1984, the Brazilian arms export reached its peak, and it seemed that Brazil had cemented its place as an important player in the Third-World arms export industry.
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Article: tanks-encyclopedia.com/coldwa...
Sources:
Books:
Expedito Carlos Stephani Bastos
Blindados no Brasil - Um Longo e Árduo Aprendizado - Volume 1
Blindados no Brasil - Um Longo e Árduo Aprendizado - Volume 2
Bernardini MB-3 Tamoyo - O blindado Nacional
Fiat-Ansaldo CV-3 35 II no Exército Brasileiro
Blindados Paulistas 1917-2020 - Da Força Pública à Polícia Militar
M-41 Walker Bulldog no Exército Brasileiro - Um grande Aprendizado
M-113 no Brasil - O clássico ocidental
Engesa EE-9 Cascavel 40 anos de combates 1977-2017
Ford M-8 Greyhound Exército Brasileiro - Surge o conceito de blindado 6x6
Other
200 anos da indústria de defesa no Brasil - René Dellagnezze
Brazilian Stuart - M3, M3A1, X1, X1A2 and their derivatives - Hélio Higuchi, Paulo Roberto Bastos Jr., and Reginaldo Bacchi
A Concise History of Brazil - Boris Fausto and Sergio Fausto
Engesa brochures
Moto-Peças brochure
Instituto Militar de Engenharia - Uma ponte para o futuro - José Carlos Albano do Amarante
ncoras e Fuzis - Corpo de Fuzileiros Navais - July 2010
Vickers documents from Ed Francis
Articles:
Frank Mccann - THE RISE AND FALL OF THE BRAZILIAN-AMERICAN MILITARY ALLIANCE, 1942-1977
Ethan B. Kapstein - The Brazilian Defense Industry and the International System
Raul De Gouvea Neto - How Brazil Competes in the Global Defense Industry
Ação de Choque, A forja da tropa blindada do Brasil - n18 2020
militaryzone.home.sapo.pt/osor... by Reginaldo Bacchi
A indústria de defesa brasileira: o setor de carros de combate e a Engesa - Eduardo Strachman and Eduardo Henrique Becker Degl’lesposti
Engesa S/A - Cenário de sua Evolução - Cirineu Costa
Internet Sources:
pastdaily.com/2018/12/18/dece...
www.forte.jor.br/2018/03/01/e...
www.lexicarbrasil.com.br/
Sipri Arms Transfer Database
United States Archive documents:
Latin American Reports from 1982 to 1988
The United States and Brazil: Opening a New Dialogue - Robert J. Branco - July 1984
Brazil and the US: A bright future? - Lieutenant Colonel Henry G. Anthony, JR. - 23 March 1987
Brazilian Arms Production: Partial Dependence - Rachel Schmidt - September 1988
Effect of the Brazilian arms industry on U.S. Strategy - Steven D. Kahne - 1993
Area Handbook Series: Brazil: A Country Study - Richard F. Nyrop - December 1982
Personal correspondence:
With Expedito Carlos Stephani Bastos, Expert in Brazilian Armoured Vehicles
A Captain of the Brazilian Army
With Ex-Engesa Employees
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An article by Darren Hazes
Narrated by Mark Fairclough
Audio Edited by Gabe
Edited by Pavel Carpaticus Alexe
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Now we need a War Thunder tech tree 😁
Exactly. Plus Brazil fought in ww2, unlike other nations already in WT. Plus brasileiros play that game a lot
Engesa, EE T-1 Osorio and tamoyo these machines was just a dream and today we still using the old leopard 1a5...
(g)old leopard 1a5
Exatamente, tudo isso graças ao nosso governo lindo e sem corrupção; um governo governado por senhores altamente sábios e gloriosos.
IRONIA
@@scorpionking2580 That thing is a legend
Did you know, why, the OSÓRIO, not produced?
1a5 is enough for South America
ENGESA and Osório is a tragic story, so much potential for nothing.
Dude, and I think when Brazil will make the EE-t3 Osório
You're going to brazil
Em português seria; Você está indo para o Brasil.
O que o vídeo quer dizer?
@@brasileirodeaco2.052 No
@@brasileirodeaco2.052 You're going to Brazil é um meme recente sobre o Brasil. Nada por trás, apenas surgiu aleatoriamente.
@@taskfailedsuccessfully4791 not sure, but apparently, there were a plan for a EE-T3 Osório
12:48 it's Jararaca, not Jaracara. Just correcting that mistake. Great video btw
Well, Brazil's defense industry is not doomed. It lost its most important armed vehicles manufacturer, but Brazil still exports products worldwide.
Embraer defense and security produces the worlds most capable plane in its role, the SuperTucano, exported world wide, including the United States. Its older version, the Tucano, was exported to France, the UK and other 20 countries..
The recent developed KC-390 is a cargo military plane aimed to replace the c-130 worldwide, it was already bought by two OTAN countries and Brazil and can transport 26 ton.
Avibras is still rocking, the last sale was to indonisia, the ASTROS 2020, known as the worlds most capable artillary saturation system, which is capable to launch the "brazilian tomahawk" developed by AVIBRAS as well.
Taurus is one of the worlds largest amunition and firearms manufacturer.
The Guarani is a brazilian 6x6 transport vehicle exported to the Philipines and probably to Argentina.
And many others...
Shhh, keep the suspense until i write about Brazil in the modern time XD
@@blasekiller9733 COOOOOL.
@@blasekiller9733 can’t wait
Osorio looks amazing!
Much better for your ears, thanks for fixing the audio
It wasn't that bad, that's client side.
@@Mungobohne1 nah, the initial part 2 that was uploaded only had audio on the left side
First of all the video is good.Thanks for the info about Brazilian defense industry.But there are some misinformations I spotted.In 1985 Cyprus was order 120 EE 9 Cascavels with the Cockerill 90mm Gun and 50 EE 3 Jararaca NOT Jaracara as you say for anti tank use supplied with the Milan missile.So far until 2021 many of that vehicles are still in use with the Cyprus national guard.
I think the era of darkness is ending, to replace the EE-11 the army has partnered with IVECO, now we have the Guarani 6x6, 2,000 vehicles were ordered for the Brazilian army, all produced locally, generating jobs for thousands of Brazilians, I think that we should have more than 500 in service now. Speaking of MBTs, there is a project called "Nova Couraça", in English it means new armor, the goal is to replace the Leopard 1A5 and M60ATTS with a new tank, probably built locally in the same way as the Guarani project, this could be for a completely new design or adapting other models to our realities. The project requires a family of vehicles that share the same hull, APC armored vehicles, recovery vehicles, infantry fighting vehicles, combat engineer vehicles and an MBT, the MBT must have a 120mm cannon, modern optics and thermal cameras , ammunition protected by blow out panels, a maximum weight of 50 tons and more. It is probably something like a CV90120 or an Ascod 2, given the fact that here in South America the best is a Leopard 2A4 from Chile and the Venezuelan T-72B, but in the case of the T-72B, almost 90% of our MBTs are in the southern region.
I don't suppose there's any chance they'd revive the Osorio? IIRC, the prototypes and all of the blueprints became property of the Brazilian Army upon Engesa's bankruptcy.
@@RedXlV Probably not, there are only two Osórios left, one is at the armor training center, and the other it's the 105mm but i don't remember where it's now, there were some plans to do so, but you would have to change several electronics components, power pack, gun and even armor, since it should not be more then 450/500mm against KE, and the MMBT/Family of vehicles is a better option, considering our threats here in South America, and there's also the problem about gathering blueprints and techinical information about it, since it was design by a private company that went bankrupt. As i said the family of vehicles is more intersting, since every vehicle has the same hull, it's easy to train personel to drive and maintain the vehicle, and about armor, we never really had a tank with good armor against tanks, and in today's battle field who sees first shoot first usually winning, so there's this dilema with this heavy MBTs and their weight almost reaching 70 tonnes, which is a weight that we can support in some regions here in Brazil. The training stations are very good, we train people from the whole South America, Africa and other parts of the world here. I highly recommend you checking our armor training center website, so you can see our tank museum, and know more abou the training and history of tanks in Brazil, here's the link www.cibld.eb.mil.br/index.php/museu-blindado#m-60-a3-tts, just translate, the translation is accurate.
Brazil could upgrade the Guarani, we need a 8x8 120mm Hunter killer . I believe we must have hold on the tecnology we use.
@@paulo1322 E o dinheiro para desenvolver tem?
@@RedXlV I saw recently in one video recently that the military engineers were studying the design of Osorio so probably they are studying if is worth it to try to revive the project. But I don't think it is, probably we will buy the Finish Tank Patria
The Tamoyo could be any country's first MBT. Wish Malaysia could get some to supplement and replace the Alvis Scorpion and gaining experience in operating an MBT and become a stopgap until a new and capable MBT is selected.
The Tamoyo wasn't really an MBT, more like a medium tank with a competitive gun.
@@choppergunner8650 affordable alternative. It's like a suitable choice for anyone who couldn't get armour from the West but don't want any from the East and Brazil try to expand its heavy industry and be self-sufficient that time so export sales is crucial.
I heard they are good with the PT-91. True?
@@HanSolo__ better than no MBT. We nearly had the South Korean K1 MBT but '97 crisis came. They offered 200 tanks but that was too much for us run. Meanwhile our neighbours, Singapore and Indonesia operate the Leopard 2.
@@Joshua_N-A you forgot who's the Minister of Defence at the time.
That EE3 is beautiful
LMAO Motopeças, and the picture is literally motorcicle pieces!
0:47
thanks for the reupload guys, my right ear is pleased
Interesting. I did not know much about Brazil’s military industry. I do think each independent country should maintain its own internal ability to create defensive weapons in as much as possible. I do wonder how much of Brazil’s defense industry helped expand its none directly defense industry such as electronics and automotive ect.
Engesa's boomerang suspension looks (and functions) much like the system Caterpillar uses on the drive wheels of its road graders. I wonder if there was any "borrowing" from one anothers designs or if they were developed independently.
They were borrowed, prrtty much most of all these suspension were borrowed, the main differences being the way they are driven which makes them patentable. The boomerang for example uses normal gears, while a DAF suspension that does sort of thr same uses worm gears or axles to transfer the power.
Asle depends on how many axles used and so on.
The concept is usually the same, the way to get there is a little different
Its basically same, but different.
Great job.
My freind, I believe you meant Jararaca 12:55
No not BRAZIL !
Aaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhh !
It's Comming to me !
GOD ! WHY ?! WHY I CAN'T ESCAPE FROM BRAZIL ?!
Thats losted the grace
in 1:33 it is not the Osório EE-T1 but the Osório EE-T2 with French Giat 120mm cannon
That is EE-T1 P2, the EE-T2 designation is not official
@@TanksEncyclopediaYT I'm sorry, your search is wrong then. I know Riccardo Furlan himself, who is an Engineer at Engesa
@@brunopieve9817 I got some help from Engesa engineers as well when writing this( Edson Kiyohara who was present during the Saudi Arabia and UAE trials, ans Jose Antonia Valls), who always refered to the 120mm as EE-T1 P2, in addition, the operation manuals of the osorio with 120mm has the title: Operations Manual EE-T1 - Main Battle Tank with 120mm gun
This source was referred to by Expedito Carlos Stephani Bastos, who also mentions that allthough the 120 mm was sometimes called EE-T2, it was never an official designation.
What if you do a video on any tanks, armoured vehicle, but with asmr?
Did somebody say "War of Ultramar?"
oh hey, its camoman!
PLEASE NO!! I DO NOT WANT TO GO TO ULTRAMAR!!
Irmãos, eu ainda creio que haverá um dia em que grandes MBTs andarão por nossas teras, e neles teremos o símbolo do explendor da nossa pátria amada !
Os unicos tanques que eu quero ver andando pelas minhas terras sao os meus, nao os do estado
@@altairtodescatto da até pena ver alguém que acredita no ancap sistema mais falho que eu já vi na minha vida
@@moreira7660 ok
@@altairtodescattoancapkkkkkkkkkkkkkk
@@altairtodescatto caralh ancap, vai achando que quando a cocazon-megacorp vai te vender um tanque... tu vai e ser for;ado a servir num tanque deles contra as forças da Tencent Xioaomi corporation lutando pelo patio de serviço numero 9784H-1G da TrumpX. amo muito esse mundo cyberpunk de voces, da super certo essa utopia...
Yes
Guilherme Travassus Silva is based.
Man, i struggled to understand what was the hunta or hunter (with african accent) that was many times mentioned. It happens that J in portugues is not like the J in spanish, which has a H sound. It is like the english J. so Junta
The English word is pronounced hunta. Sorry
@@TanksEncyclopediaYT dont bother, you did an excelent job. I imagine the amount of reading and investigation you had to do to understand what passed in a foreign country decades ago.
@@v1n1c1u55anto5 it took me about 6 months in total to write this article, so the internet article, which is about 2.5 times more extensive than the videos.
@@blasekiller9733 Man, you are a guy dedicated to your job. Congratulations!!
Finally the Osorio
0:50 - Nice picture to represent Moto Peças SA. Moto Peças literally translates as "motorcycle parts" hahahahha
And today we're stuck with these Leopard 1's... Talk about wasted potential.
Culpa do governo "democrático" que retirou os fundos das forças armadas. Isso se reflete até os dias de hoje, onde o 5o maior país do mundo ainda tem de ficar operando caças F-5E modernizados e tanques dos anos 70. Vai ficar modernizando até quando? O dinheiro gasto para modernizar dava pra investir em novos projetos.
Leo I é um ótimo tanque para uma força de defesa.
@@miguelmontenegro3520 Pelo contrário, o Leopard é veloz e possuí pouca blindagem, é ideal para uma força ofensiva...
@@soares8802 todo tanque é ofensivo. Não significa que não pode ser bem utilizado defensivamente
@@miguelmontenegro3520 Não, existem veículos especificos para ambos os casos, uma taco de baseball pode ser usado para a defesa pessoal, mas não significa que foi feito para isso...
We need one for india now- american, british, french and soviet armor plus the indigenous stuff, its as colourful as indian musical movies
I think this tank won over the Abram right? Yet I think because it had no future in term of upgrades, the Abram was still better.
There are more fronts the Abrams would have been better like armor and the industry and logistics behind it. The exact reasons why the Osorio won are unkown, and i could probably fill 3 to 5 pages of potential reasons why the Osorio did not succeed.
In the end its probably a combination of things of which the most important i feel are explained in my article and this video on the article. I would like to add to one of the reasons, is that the Saudi's might also have done this, just to get a better bargain on the Abrams. In the end we simply dont know for sure until the Saudi's tell us why.
Mas devemos ficar de olho e cobrar daqueles que nos representam, afim de cobrar nada menos do que os nossos anseios. Porque, afinal, os funcionários públicos são FUNCIONÁRIOS PÚBLICOS e não o contrário.
The Osório's means of production are still in the hands of the army, but building it nowadays would be a massive loss of money. Plus, the so-called "democratic" government (Tancredo Neves was the elect president, with some military support, but he died "mysteriously" and his VP, José Sarney took over) undermined all of our projects, which I think it wouldn't 100% save these companies, but given our current inventory, I think it was better than nothing. The Brazilian Army didn't take the Osório when they could, and now, we're stuck with old Leo 1A5s (even some 1A1s) and M60A3s on the verge of being decomissioned. Our forces only got some attention in the last decade, especially at the end of 2018.
What i did understand from it though, is that a lot of actual components have to be redesigned as not all the info for the Osorio is available, plus it is unknown to who would be able to take on such a project and the Osorio needs to be modernised as well, time hasnt stood still the last 30 years. In all fairness, the government should have gone for the Tamoyo, which was the tank that catered to their needs, and was cheaper. Since Bernardini was much less reliant on export, they would probably not went bankrupt in 2004, compared to Engesa in 93. Was it as good of a tano as the Osorio, no, but it was less ambitious and could have retained the knowledge so that Bernardini could have developed an Osorio like tank now. The econony wsd already going down in the early 80s and did mean that the government would be unable to really buy the Osorio or support it after buying it. The main damage is how the Tamoyo project was handled imo, it was a strategical mistake to but the M60s and Leo's, even if it meant buying Tamoyo's for 2 to 3 times the price of the dirt cheap surplus equipment.
@@blasekiller9733 The Osório was a Brazilian-made tank, but if you look deep into it, it was a logistical nightmare. The L7 gun came from Britain, and the GIAT 120mm gun came from France. The turret was made in Britain by Vickers. The engine, transmission and suspension were German. The only Brazilian thing there was the hull. Still, I guess if the US had not stepped in (the US said "Brazil was selling weapons to enemy countries", because of the No Strings Attached policy and the massive order of Urutus and Cascavels by Iraq), the economy hadn't stepped on a crisis by the early '80s and the military junta had stayed up until 1990, I guess they could pull something off. The Tamoyo was better suited for our reality. Cheaper, with the same 105mm gun, but way less armored (TE did a mistake here, it wasn't an MBT. It was more like a medium tank with a competitive gun by '80s standards) and used parts from the M41, as Bernardini was the one responsible for the C-variant upgrade package.
IMO both tanks were good. I am not downplaying the role that the M60s and Leo 1A5s have, I'm just saddened that they're really old. Sadly we don't have any Tamoyos left, but we do have one of the EE-T1s left in storage. It's now an outdated tank, so building it again would be a waste of money. The only thing I can't forgive was that the "democratic" government basically cut off any funds for the military. Most of our equipment are still remains from the Cold War, not exactly suited for modern combat. Even though Brazil doesn't get involved in wars, we can't let our military industry die, and that's exactly what they did in the late '80s, also opening the doors to probably the biggest criminal scheme ever. All of that stolen money, could be applied into healthcare, infrastructure and, of course, defense.
@@choppergunner8650 @Chopper Gunner i wrote this article for TE XD, the actual article on the website is much more extensive than these videos, allthough the Tamoyo is often cladsiefied as a Medium Battle Tank, also by Bernardini, its role withing the Brazilian Army would be that of an MBT. MBT classification is a weird and complicated thing and eventualy simply depends on what the country classifies it as. I would argue that the Tamoyo 3 is an MBT considering its armament and comparable vehiclse in South America. For western standards it was a medium battle tank, but for SA standards, it would still have been a MBT, if it performed most duties of tanks in the armored force. Again MBT deignations are weird, as the C1 ariete is also sometimes called medium battle tank, and the strv103 is called an mbt as well.
Actually you have quite some Tamoyo's left, the Tamoyo 3 with 105mm went to a private collector not too long ago, and the army still has Tamoyo 1s in two or three locations. For the osorio, you have two, one with the 105 and one with the 120.
And yes, the collapse is a very complicated matter, but a bit more companies could have survived: my hope would have been a charrua and Tamoyo combined army since they share components.
@@choppergunner8650 in addition, what ive seen from the last 10 years, allthough the Guarani is a gradual project, but from what they have announced and written in the 2020 to 2023 plan, they are planning a massive modernisation, maybe not everything will be done, but its still a very extensive modernisation with fire support vehicles/tank destroyers, new Tanks, modernisation programs, comuter connectivety, ATGMs, the initiallization of Guarani variant projects, and i remember reading they were going to look more into the TORC 30 turret, which is really nice.
@@blasekiller9733 Cool! I love TE, I've seen some things there I thought that didn't even exist! I didn't even know that Bernardini tried to turn an X1 into a Katyusha-esque mobile rocket system xD. Thank you guys so much!
can you do a video about japanese tanks like this video and nice work ^^
When we get an article on it
@@constantinalexe4862 got you
Modern Japanese tanks?
@@Joshua_N-A yea thats my idea like the brazilian videos a japanese one
Hello Hedi,
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Aqui no Brasil a ENGESA faliu e os blindados ainda são utilizados mais estão sem do substuido
Viva ao Brasil se Deus quiser nos voltaremos a frabricar tanques de guerra sobre esteiras
Quem ousa nos invocar ?
Ainda vamos fabricar o OSORIO.....👍👍
Precisamos de um Hunter killer quem sabe um upgrade no sucuri 8x8 120 mm?
O Brasil está atualmente procurando adquirir um veículo de apoio ao fogo/ destruidor de tanques. Parece que eles estão se aproximando do B2 Centauro. O EE-18 Sucuri era um veículo 6x6 e tinha um 105mm.
@@blasekiller9733 obrigado tenho ciência disto . O upgrade do canhão já havia visto neste mas infelizmente não lembro e não posso provar mas há precedentes . Os US comandaram um boicote de alguns fornecedores para o Osório quando ele foi melhor que o M1?
. Mas pode servir de base para eventual reativação da Engesa . É imprescindível que seja 100% nacional, coisa que dificilmente conseguiremos. Mas assim como o gripen com transferência de tecnologia montados aqui? Acho a melhor opção no mercado de 8x8. Independente no possível.
@@paulo1322 Nós não comandamos boycots sobre fornecedores. A enorme quantidade de fornecedores europeus necessários representava um desafio e um risco para a Engesa. A Alemanha, por exemplo, impõe limites a quem alguém pode vender seus equipamentos ou licenciá-los. Especialmente para a Engesa que dependia de países do Oriente Médio, isto traria alguns problemas.
Atualmente, o Guarani é construído com transferência de tecnologia e para uma parte razoável no Brasil. A parte mais difícil para um 8x8 é a quantidade que o Exército brasileiro precisa e se vale a pena montar uma fábrica para produzi-los no Brasil. Seria necessário um número razoável de 8x8 para cobrir estes custos. No entanto, eles provavelmente irão para a transferência de tecnologia.
A questão principal é a quantidade de conhecimento necessária para que os veículos atinjam padrões modernos, o que é mais ou menos ilustrado com o projeto Guarani, onde o Brasil, um especialista em veículos de rodas há cerca de 20 anos, precisava de alguém para obter os veículos e dar a tecnologia para mantê-los em padrões modernos.
@@blasekiller9733 agradeço e reconheço que o Brasil adotava esta postura de vendas internacionais . Reconheço sua visão e respeito,. Após a guerra O Iraque e o EB deram fôlego à. Porém entraram no lançamento sem capital de giro enfim, quebrou . Obrigado por partilhar seu conhecimentos históricos.
Ciente destas 2 opções proponto um terceiro a ser feito em parceria. Saudações
🇧🇷
EE-9 Cascavel
Today on YOUR GOING TO BRAZIL
Osorio was cursed by usa
Basically Brazilian tanks:
E-1 Indigena
EE-2 Cobra
EEE-11 Túpi
EEEE-2 Guaraná
EEEEEEEEEEE-121 Mandelá
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE-1221 Favêla
Não sabe quase nada do Brasil