Right!? I misspoke in the video and it's actually a TM, not a level up move for magnemite. There's a really weird list of Pokémon who can learn it, including Arcanine!? Nuts!
Thanks!! I just tried to think of a video idea I'd never seen before, and this one ended up being a really fun problem to solve :D I will hopefully not keep you waiting too long for gen 2!
I won't be using sketch like that, so the count will be greater than 1 :D il be doing a separate video per gen to try and do it with one ditto or one smeargle or one mirror moving fearow etc
Incredible video! The amount of work that had to be done before even starting the run.. Keep up the great work! I'm looking forward to the next one! Yes... that means that Gen 2 has to happen :)
Your idea of ensuring every signature move was covered, then taking all the moves those pokemon could learn revealed an extremely repressed memory of solving constraint satisfaction problems in school, which are this exact kind of problem. Thanks for re-opening that can of worms, and consider looking into that once the number of pokemon and moves gets crazy enough in later generations that brute forcing it might be less feasible!
Haha and who said the math/maths we learnt at school wouldn't prepare us for the real world 😂 Il definitely check that out thanks, and hopefully you are able to repress that memory once again!
Oh man, time for Gen 7 “use all the moves challenge”. I say that because that is the last time all Pokémon are allowed, so that is not going to be fun.
Oh god, my Pokémon knowledge stops at gen 3 so il be going in completely blind! But if gen 2 and 3's all moves videos perform as well as this one has, il have no choice but to proceed :D
Fun idea, though I will point out that Mew is available in a base game, what with Gen 1 being so well put together, thanks to the trainer teleport glitch. Happily you already ran the numbers on that though.
Very true! Il have to watch my wording on the next one, il say no glitches instead :) else maybe I could have completed the challenge with one level 346 missingno 😂
Haha thanks a lot man, I wish porygon didn't exist :p my poor thumbs, there's only so many times I can press A. And ahh I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks notepad++ is the ultimate IDE :D
There would probably be a subcategory called AllMovesMinMons% for a challenge similar to this. In AllMoves%, the runner would be able to capture as many different Pokémon they like to fulfill the requirements, making it easier than what Kangaskdan did.
I like how you did this as an actual playthrough rather than simply keeping it as mere theory along the lines of "let's put together the smallest possible list of Pokémon that would, in sum, allow us to use every move in the game". I also love how you even counted Struggle. ❤ As for your note on Mew, that's an interesting provocation-- whether the Mew glitch should be classified as a "legitimate" way to get them. After all, on one hand, we're doing something the devs didn't intend, but on the other, we're doing something that exists within the game itself, regardless of whether it's there by design or by mistake-- it's not like we're modding the game. I was curious as to how the math for including Mew still led to 31 minimum. You'd think it'd _at least_ go down to 30 because we removed two signature moves from the equation-- we no longer need a Chansey and a Ditto if a Mew can fill in for both, so shouldn't that mean one less Pokémon? Well, I determined that the problem had to rest somewhere else in Chansey's moveset: a level-up move that can otherwise only be learned by Pokémon that *weren't* caught in your playthrough. And, sure enough, the are _three_ such moves: Sing, Defense Curl, and Light Screen. Now you may ask if that wouldn't actually _increase_ the list, but not really. All we'd have to do is swap the Chansey for a Clefairy, who can learn all three of those. So essentially, we'd just be swapping a Ditto for a Mew and a Chansey for a Clefairy.
Thanks! Yehh I came to the same Mew conclusion, level up moves really make the difference :) Il have to pull up my list of 64 mew teams to see if either chansey or clefairy are in every team. Thanks for your comment, and for the effort you put into it!
As a software engineer, I was wondering if you had a technical background and would attempt a DFS to solve the problem. I was pleasantly surprised. You have my sub. Looking forward to the next one.
@@kangaskdan Yeah I could imagine lol There's some moves like Aeroblast & Sacred Fire you wouldn't be able to use at ALL in Gen 3 without getting Colosseum & XD involved. Not to mention Doom Desire & Psycho Boost... (tho, the latter is in Shadow Lugia when you purify it, fwiw)
I've recently made that discovery myself :D although in FRLG and Emerald I think there's the events in game go access jirachi and mew and the birds and deoxys, I just need to cheat in some of the event items :D so it won't be a very vanilla run....
Really creative idea! It's always cool to see a new type of challenge! Also props on the overlay. It looks appealing without being overbearing and displays all the necessary info in a convenient way. Only thing I would change is in some way indicating which Pokemon can learn signature moves in the team list on the right. Would love to see more of this in other generations!
Thank you! And thanks for the feedback! As for showing which Pokémon had signature moves, what did you have in mind? A little marowak in the Bone Club box? Gen 2 is half recorded now so any changes will have to wait til gen 3 but I'm always happy to try new ideas!
Great video all round! Interesting idea, i've been doing lots of runs on gen 1 lately and even then there was still a few signature moves i've never encountered! I really enjoyed the way you named them all and actually made it feel like a legitimate playthrough caring about the pokemon and injecting a lot of humour rather than just a scientific experiement of the games mechanics... but the breakdown at the end was really interesting too. I've watched a couple of your vids before but this is the one thats made me subscribe 😄
Thank you so much! What a nice comment, I'm really glad you enjoyed it :) And haha don't tell me I was the only one who didn't know dizzy punch existed 😂
@@kangaskdan dizzy punch was one for sure! Another thing was me going "ohhhh!" When i finally realised what that random guy on that patch of water in celadon was for... soft boiled! Every playthrough i tell myself i'll talk to him when i get surf and by the time i do i've totally forgotten 😂 how niche indeed! Dont think ive ever used chancey on a playthrough, i love how much content there is considering it was a handheld game from the 90s, incredible.
Haha yeh I thought the exact same about that random softboiled person! Yeh me too, who'd have thought this game would still be as fresh and entertaining 20 odd years after it was released!!
Awesome video! Crazy how long Pokemons been out and we still have so many useless but fun ways to play it and learn about it! Can't wait to see how Gen 2 turns out! It'd be interesting if you were to include Gen 1 trade-backs or even Stadium moves in the equation, I wonder if that'd change much, like certain signature moves in gen 2, not being signature moves in gen 1, and even vice versa!
Thanks a lot!! Yehhh who'd have thought all those years ago that we'd still be playing it :D And for the gen 2 run I'm going to try and do it using as little gen 1 trading as possible (but spoiler alert a couple of moves will be impossible without trades!). And yehh it's fun watching the signatures change, like in gen 1 loads of Pokémon could learn pay day, but in gen 2 it's just Meowth/Persian :)
Yeah that's fair, with trade-backs I can see it being way harder to keep track of. I checked the signature list after watching the video, it's interesting seeing how it also works both ways, like Petal Dance and Splash no longer being signature movies in gen 1, if you include trade-backs, now I wanna have a crack at this and see how much actually changes! That's how you know you've done a good video 😂
It's literally impossible without tradebacks in G2, because there's no TM for Razor Wind and nothing learns it via level (only breeding), unless you abuse loopholes and have Metronome to pull it. The only other such case is G8, where Mat Block is in-game but nothing actually learns it (you have to transfer Throh that already knows the move), and Metronome can't call that.
Thank you!! Damn version exclusives making me play the games multiple times :D spoiler alert for gen 3, the 3 emerald starters each have a signature move :|
Can't believe it took me till Mera learned Horn Drill to notice the nicknames. Dinah for chansey and Damien the Exeggcute are absolute bangers. Made me watch the video again from the start
"Mooooves. Pokemon know them." _Ah yes, this floor is made out of floor_ But seriously this is great lol I love the combination of mathy problem-solving and Pokemon! I bet the number of Pokemon needed would go up quite a lot in future gens with so many signature moves and alternate forms being added over the years
Haha my friend told me to grab people's attention in the first 3 seconds :D I'm glad you enjoyed it!! Yehh definitely the number will go up, I haven't had a proper look at gen 3 yet but I at least know all 3 emerald starters have signature moves! :|
This was interesting to watch. So many moves i didnt know existed in gen 1 especially with how many of them were exclusive to a single pokemon line. Like it feels like a no duh in retrospect but i did not know that hitmonlee was the only pokemon to learn jump kick and hi jump kick much less that those moves were in gen one. I thought those moves were introduced alongside medicham. I would love to see more.
Haha I know right, if I was asked to name hitmonlees signature move in gen 1 before I made this video, I'd have probably guessed jump kick and that's it :D
Speaking of starting with Mew, I wonder what the implications would be if you allowed yourself to count a move as used if you used Transform and then used a move while transformed.
That's a great question, that'll require a lot of thought, about what Pokémon wild/trainer levels are and what moves they know at those levels! But maybe it'd be possible with just a ditto! Although I don't think I've ever seen an enemy use razor wind, so maybe a ditto and a pidgey :D
@@kangaskdanmy first thought was mimic! That'd certainly lower the number needed, right? With all the abra line enemies, I'm certain you'd at least be able to skip abra. Would be cool to see!
@@kangaskdan If you want some good info, I know of a poketuber ScottsThoughts. He does speed runs of Pokemon, usually earlier gens. He back ported Smeargle into Yellow and did a community race. One person rather than try to finish the game fastest attempted to sketch every move possible in the game. That info might be helpful in figuring out at least how many are possible!
Thanks! And yehh that surprised me too! Turns out all of the must-haves mop up the majority of the TMs, so mew ends up being a glorified transform-user!
@@kangaskdanbut it also eliminates Chansey. Unless Chansey knows another move that is not signature but not covered by any others on the list. Maybe it was.... Sing?
This was so good, dude! Being able to write code to do some of your planning is so clutch. I would love to do a collab sometime! Keep up the great work.
I am thanks! Just getting back into the youtube grind, 8 months of no youtube and no pokemon has caused me to forget what a pikachu is, and who I am :D
Yehh another commenter suggested an alternative version of this run where I just use dittos and see how many moves I can use. Because it'll definitely be less than 165 as I don't think I've ever seen a wild Pokémon or trainer Pokémon using cut or razor wind. But I think it'd be really interesting to see how many moves I can use! :)
What an interesting video. I'm certainly looking forward to what your path in Gen 2 will be and even more so in future generations. I wonder how soon, if ever, you'll have to resort to importing pokémon from previous generations.
Thank you! And yehh definitely, I'll be chucking Sketch into the same "no dodgy stuff" bucket as metronome, mirror move, transform etc :D No cheating allowed!
Cool! Would love to see a variation where Transform is allowed. I imagine it would be harder both to route and to execute, but that's part of the draw of challenge runs, eh? Also I wonder if there's a way you can loosen your rules enough that you can ban the link cable - like with Trainer Fly, for example. Doing it on one cart has its own kind of purity.
Neat. I once briefly pondered a similar topic, but instead of using a move once and it's checked off, how many Pokémon would it take to KNOW every move AT ONCE, meaning a limit of 4 moves per Pokémon?
That's an interesting one!! If every Pokémon learnt every move the number would be 41, but we know that's not the case :D would you have to have unique Pokémon as well? Or could you do it with several chanseys to help out with the TMs :)
@@kangaskdan I think the point of the idea was different Pokémon, but unique/repeats could be different tallies for the sake of comparison. Now if evolution stages counted separate or not…?
@@BioniclesaurKing4t2 Yehh definitely one to think about :D Well if I still have my sanity after doing all moves/fewest mons for gens 2 and 3, il consider coming back to this idea :)
It does, but I chose to not use transform, mirror move and metronome in that way. I'm thinking il do a ditto only run in the future to see how many moves I can use just by using enemy movesets :)
Yehhh I definitely think so! A professor oaks challenge for moves. My route/team was certainly not the most time efficient, though regardless of what team you end up, we'd still have to grind out the porygon coins at the end :D
Hahah I decided against Mr Grayson for the sake of the algorithm :D they'll definitely have to show up later, even though I might change name theme for the next one :)
Love the topic. Sorry if I missed it, but are trades necessary? Among the 19 signatures, can they all be obtained in one game? If so, can the remaining moves be collected that game? If that holds, what's our minimum pokemon count then? And if not, how few moves would be skipped (or require trading, and the minimum trades necessary?)
So I initially decided I had to play in Yellow because Kinesis doesn't exist in red/blue, but then with Yellow on its own I had no access to Glare (ekans), Lovely kiss (Jynx), Twineedle (Beedrill) and a few others! Including the fact that hitmonlee was a signature and hitmonchan crossed a lot of moves off, so regardless of which games I played I'd have had to play 2!
Production value is impressive, but I'm a bit disappointed it wasn't centred around using Mimic and Transform to copy moves without actually obtaining their users. A good showing nonetheless and must have taken a lot of planning!
It took too much planning if anything! Yeh a few people have mentioned mimic/transform/mirror move, I'm going to do that in a separate ditto-only run. As I've done using every move the user has direct access to, now I could do every move the enemy has access to :)
I'm curious to see how this would change if ditto using moves from opponent pokemon was counted. How much move variety do enemy trainers have and would it reduce the number of pokemon needed at all?
Now I'm wondering how many pokemon it would take if you were to cheese the count with metronome, mimic, and transform. How many moves are there that no NPC or wild pokemon have?
I know right! I was convinced the same. But because payday was a TM in gen 1 they gave it to a bunch of different Pokémon, including Pikachu, the nidos, mankey, psyduck...
If this is only about using the moves, couldn't you use transform and/or mirror move to copy some specific moves? At least with transform you definitly use the move. But it's probably a lot harder to calculate because you need to look at every trainer and wild Pokémon to figure out which moves you can copy and if it even helps. Still an interesting video that answered a question i never asked 😂
Yep it's an interesting question and il be answering it in its own video. This one focussed on what moves we could learn, the next one will focussing on what moves the enemy can learn :)
Not to knock on the video, it was very good, though 31/81 total pokemon used seems like it could be better. I haven't done the theory crafting to check but I might need to go through and check if there was anyway to cut the list. Update! Through trading up to a gen 2 game, and breeding in that game for egg moves you can cut it down to 28. Was kinda hoping to get lower but hey that's the best I was able to get
@@kangaskdan I'll admit I didn't watch to the end before I posted that comment. I see how you got your list though the big thing I think you did miss is gen 1 & 2's cross generation trading. That could probably net you less pokemon
Wait i'm at the beginning of the vid and i'm confused as to why you don't have a beedrill yet? unless there's somewhere else you can catch a beedrill for twin-needle that I just don't remember?
I thought this would be a starter solo run until ditto, then just a bunch of transforming. I wonder how many moves you can encounter from enemy trainers before you need to catch other Pokemon and use TMS. I think the method in the video was probably more interesting though.
Yehh seems like a lot of people were expecting more ditto action :D il be making a separate video using just a ditto to see how many moves I can get to using just enemy moves :)
Which one? :) I used: - retroarch as the emulator to play the game - OBS to record the gameplay - Adobe premier pro to edit the video - GameHook to access the game's RAM - some homemade Python and html to develop and display the overlay
Wait, if adding Mew gives 88 combinations that only use 31 Pokémon, but 24 don't use Mew at all, why do you need 32 if you don't include Mew? If you used one of those 24 wouldn't that let you do the challenge with only 31 AND without using Mew?
Yep so 31 is the minimum whether I use mew or not. The team I used in the run was 31 Pokémon and didn't include a mew, and there 23 other non-mew combos of 31 Pokémon I could have used. Adding mew into the equation doesn't change the minimum number, which is still 31, but having all the TMs accounted for really opens up the possibilities for team members, giving 64 possible 31-pokemon teams that all include mew. In conclusion, 31 is the minimum for gen 1 regardless of whether mew is available or not :)
Magnemite learning Teleport may be the most bizarre thing I've learned in a Pokemon video, and I've watched a lot of Pokemon videos.
Right!? I misspoke in the video and it's actually a TM, not a level up move for magnemite. There's a really weird list of Pokémon who can learn it, including Arcanine!? Nuts!
@@kangaskdanThank you for clarifying. After you said levelup move, I went and checked.
@@kangaskdan Physically defensive Arcanine with Intimidate and Teleport is probably one of the funniest pivots in Gen 8 competitive singles.
And Mewtwo can't
love how magnemite can but gastly can't
As a Cubone fan it’s great to see a challenge that could not be completed without his evolution line 😌
And based on your profile pic I'd say you were pretty happy to see Arthur the magikarp too :)
Glad I could give your favs their time to shine!
"Mooooooooooooooooooves" might be the single best opening word to a video on this website!
Haha thank you! Gotta get ready to up the intro game for the next one now :D
Stupid comment. Get a Life.
But Video really is cool
If it were Internet Historian, it would have been "Moves. MOOOOVES. What ARE moves?"
So random topic but I really appreciate how out-of-the-box the idea was and the conclusion paid off well. Looking forward to Gen 2 follow up!
Thanks!! I just tried to think of a video idea I'd never seen before, and this one ended up being a really fun problem to solve :D I will hopefully not keep you waiting too long for gen 2!
I'd love to see this for the rest of the gens. Such an interesting concept.
Thanks!! I hopefully won't keep you waiting too long! :D
Seconded!
Much less interesting. The rest of the gens have access to Smeargle.Except for 8 and 9, that is.
I won't be using sketch like that, so the count will be greater than 1 :D il be doing a separate video per gen to try and do it with one ditto or one smeargle or one mirror moving fearow etc
I will be curious to see if the number of pokemon needed to use every move will go up or down
I enjoy planning-based challenges like this, I'd definitely love to see more
Thanks!! Hopefully you won't have to wait too long for another :D
Incredible video! The amount of work that had to be done before even starting the run.. Keep up the great work!
I'm looking forward to the next one! Yes... that means that Gen 2 has to happen :)
Thank you! I'm really glad you enjoyed it, and oh don't worry gen 2 is definitely going to happen. If only so I can do a rap for Peach :D
I’m very glad the algorithm showed me this video it is such a unique Pokémon challenge idea
I'm glad too :) thanks John!
Your idea of ensuring every signature move was covered, then taking all the moves those pokemon could learn revealed an extremely repressed memory of solving constraint satisfaction problems in school, which are this exact kind of problem. Thanks for re-opening that can of worms, and consider looking into that once the number of pokemon and moves gets crazy enough in later generations that brute forcing it might be less feasible!
Haha and who said the math/maths we learnt at school wouldn't prepare us for the real world 😂
Il definitely check that out thanks, and hopefully you are able to repress that memory once again!
Oh man, time for Gen 7 “use all the moves challenge”. I say that because that is the last time all Pokémon are allowed, so that is not going to be fun.
Oh god, my Pokémon knowledge stops at gen 3 so il be going in completely blind! But if gen 2 and 3's all moves videos perform as well as this one has, il have no choice but to proceed :D
What a cool "little" experiment. So much work for just shy of 20 minutes of entertainment. Kudos to you!
Haha tell me about it! So long as people enjoyed it, the work was all worth it :)
Fun idea, though I will point out that Mew is available in a base game, what with Gen 1 being so well put together, thanks to the trainer teleport glitch. Happily you already ran the numbers on that though.
Very true! Il have to watch my wording on the next one, il say no glitches instead :) else maybe I could have completed the challenge with one level 346 missingno 😂
I always used to do DC heroes as a nickname theme in my Pokemon save files growing up, right down to both "John" and "J'onn." I appreciate you.
Ah no way! And here I was thinking I was unique :D I need to think of a nickname theme for the gen 2 run now :)
Really nice video! Im expecting this to blow up on the algorithm soon!
Thank you! I hope you're right :D it's already had more views than I ever expected to get so I'm very happy!
loooool I completely forgot about Porygon! Sick video, thinking about the coding made my head hurt, but I for one applaud the use of notepad++
Haha thanks a lot man, I wish porygon didn't exist :p my poor thumbs, there's only so many times I can press A.
And ahh I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks notepad++ is the ultimate IDE :D
Wooo! Always excited to see an upload from you, man!
Thanks Rob! I hope you enjoy!
As a DC fan, I really appreciated the naming conventions you used.
I'm glad!! DC doesn't get enough love, or maybe more accurately it gets the wrong kind of love :D
Love to see how the speedrun for this category would evolve, allmoves%
Definitely! I bet we'd see some really interested routes
There would probably be a subcategory called AllMovesMinMons% for a challenge similar to this. In AllMoves%, the runner would be able to capture as many different Pokémon they like to fulfill the requirements, making it easier than what Kangaskdan did.
I like how you did this as an actual playthrough rather than simply keeping it as mere theory along the lines of "let's put together the smallest possible list of Pokémon that would, in sum, allow us to use every move in the game". I also love how you even counted Struggle. ❤
As for your note on Mew, that's an interesting provocation-- whether the Mew glitch should be classified as a "legitimate" way to get them. After all, on one hand, we're doing something the devs didn't intend, but on the other, we're doing something that exists within the game itself, regardless of whether it's there by design or by mistake-- it's not like we're modding the game.
I was curious as to how the math for including Mew still led to 31 minimum. You'd think it'd _at least_ go down to 30 because we removed two signature moves from the equation-- we no longer need a Chansey and a Ditto if a Mew can fill in for both, so shouldn't that mean one less Pokémon? Well, I determined that the problem had to rest somewhere else in Chansey's moveset: a level-up move that can otherwise only be learned by Pokémon that *weren't* caught in your playthrough. And, sure enough, the are _three_ such moves: Sing, Defense Curl, and Light Screen.
Now you may ask if that wouldn't actually _increase_ the list, but not really. All we'd have to do is swap the Chansey for a Clefairy, who can learn all three of those. So essentially, we'd just be swapping a Ditto for a Mew and a Chansey for a Clefairy.
Thanks! Yehh I came to the same Mew conclusion, level up moves really make the difference :)
Il have to pull up my list of 64 mew teams to see if either chansey or clefairy are in every team.
Thanks for your comment, and for the effort you put into it!
Here from a recommendation from RBY challenges. Your voice and the pace of the video is friggin soothing. It just flows
Ah thanks so much, that's really nice to hear!
As a software engineer, I was wondering if you had a technical background and would attempt a DFS to solve the problem. I was pleasantly surprised. You have my sub. Looking forward to the next one.
Thank you!! We software engineers have to stick together 😁
Very nice video! Excited to see how the Gen 2 one and maybe even a future Gen 3 one would turn out :)
Gen 2 is almost done!!
Gen 3 looks like a nightmare :D
@@kangaskdan Yeah I could imagine lol
There's some moves like Aeroblast & Sacred Fire you wouldn't be able to use at ALL in Gen 3 without getting Colosseum & XD involved. Not to mention Doom Desire & Psycho Boost... (tho, the latter is in Shadow Lugia when you purify it, fwiw)
I've recently made that discovery myself :D although in FRLG and Emerald I think there's the events in game go access jirachi and mew and the birds and deoxys, I just need to cheat in some of the event items :D so it won't be a very vanilla run....
@@kangaskdan Are you still planning on releasing a video on it? I'm so curious to see it! :)
@@dicandeo9698 Turns out "almost done" actually meant "wait 9 months" :D I'm trying my best to finish it in the next week or so!!
Really creative idea! It's always cool to see a new type of challenge! Also props on the overlay. It looks appealing without being overbearing and displays all the necessary info in a convenient way. Only thing I would change is in some way indicating which Pokemon can learn signature moves in the team list on the right.
Would love to see more of this in other generations!
Thank you! And thanks for the feedback! As for showing which Pokémon had signature moves, what did you have in mind? A little marowak in the Bone Club box? Gen 2 is half recorded now so any changes will have to wait til gen 3 but I'm always happy to try new ideas!
this was a really fun video, the way you presented it was also nice with how calm and soothing your voice is (:
Thanks so much!
Genuinely a great concept for a series, definitely looking forward to watching each individual episode
Thanks!! Hopefully I won't keep you waiting too much longer!
This is amazing! Great work! We need more of this!
Thanks Grant!! Il do more just for you :)
Great video all round! Interesting idea, i've been doing lots of runs on gen 1 lately and even then there was still a few signature moves i've never encountered!
I really enjoyed the way you named them all and actually made it feel like a legitimate playthrough caring about the pokemon and injecting a lot of humour rather than just a scientific experiement of the games mechanics... but the breakdown at the end was really interesting too.
I've watched a couple of your vids before but this is the one thats made me subscribe 😄
Thank you so much! What a nice comment, I'm really glad you enjoyed it :)
And haha don't tell me I was the only one who didn't know dizzy punch existed 😂
@@kangaskdan dizzy punch was one for sure! Another thing was me going "ohhhh!" When i finally realised what that random guy on that patch of water in celadon was for... soft boiled! Every playthrough i tell myself i'll talk to him when i get surf and by the time i do i've totally forgotten 😂 how niche indeed!
Dont think ive ever used chancey on a playthrough, i love how much content there is considering it was a handheld game from the 90s, incredible.
Haha yeh I thought the exact same about that random softboiled person! Yeh me too, who'd have thought this game would still be as fresh and entertaining 20 odd years after it was released!!
That was a really cool video! Nicely explained and the overlay was delightful, great job mate.
Ah that's really kind of you to say! Thanks :)
This is a great idea and was done well too. Thanks for the maths behind it too
Thanks so much Kanbei! Glad you liked it!!
Awesome video! Crazy how long Pokemons been out and we still have so many useless but fun ways to play it and learn about it!
Can't wait to see how Gen 2 turns out! It'd be interesting if you were to include Gen 1 trade-backs or even Stadium moves in the equation, I wonder if that'd change much, like certain signature moves in gen 2, not being signature moves in gen 1, and even vice versa!
Thanks a lot!! Yehhh who'd have thought all those years ago that we'd still be playing it :D
And for the gen 2 run I'm going to try and do it using as little gen 1 trading as possible (but spoiler alert a couple of moves will be impossible without trades!).
And yehh it's fun watching the signatures change, like in gen 1 loads of Pokémon could learn pay day, but in gen 2 it's just Meowth/Persian :)
Yeah that's fair, with trade-backs I can see it being way harder to keep track of.
I checked the signature list after watching the video, it's interesting seeing how it also works both ways, like Petal Dance and Splash no longer being signature movies in gen 1, if you include trade-backs, now I wanna have a crack at this and see how much actually changes! That's how you know you've done a good video 😂
Hahah if I've inspired just one person to try this mad challenge with me, then I'm counting that as a massive success :D let me know how you get on!!
It's literally impossible without tradebacks in G2, because there's no TM for Razor Wind and nothing learns it via level (only breeding), unless you abuse loopholes and have Metronome to pull it.
The only other such case is G8, where Mat Block is in-game but nothing actually learns it (you have to transfer Throh that already knows the move), and Metronome can't call that.
Yup so Pokémon Red will be making a brief appearance in the gen 2 video for razor wind and at least a couple of other moves :)
Great video, I never thought about this! Somehow I should have expected a second game would be needed
Thank you!! Damn version exclusives making me play the games multiple times :D spoiler alert for gen 3, the 3 emerald starters each have a signature move :|
neat little idea, glad i watched
Thanks! I'm glad you watched too :)
Can't believe it took me till Mera learned Horn Drill to notice the nicknames. Dinah for chansey and Damien the Exeggcute are absolute bangers. Made me watch the video again from the start
Haha you got it eventually, that's all that matters :D thanks for watching (twice!)
i like ur gentle manner of speaking
Haha thank you :D no wonder everyone falls asleep when I speak to them at work!
Great video, I'd love to see more.
Thank you! Il try not to keep you waiting too long!
"Mooooves. Pokemon know them."
_Ah yes, this floor is made out of floor_
But seriously this is great lol I love the combination of mathy problem-solving and Pokemon! I bet the number of Pokemon needed would go up quite a lot in future gens with so many signature moves and alternate forms being added over the years
Haha my friend told me to grab people's attention in the first 3 seconds :D
I'm glad you enjoyed it!! Yehh definitely the number will go up, I haven't had a proper look at gen 3 yet but I at least know all 3 emerald starters have signature moves! :|
This was interesting to watch. So many moves i didnt know existed in gen 1 especially with how many of them were exclusive to a single pokemon line. Like it feels like a no duh in retrospect but i did not know that hitmonlee was the only pokemon to learn jump kick and hi jump kick much less that those moves were in gen one. I thought those moves were introduced alongside medicham. I would love to see more.
Haha I know right, if I was asked to name hitmonlees signature move in gen 1 before I made this video, I'd have probably guessed jump kick and that's it :D
Loved the content, and your voice is so soothing
Thank you!! :)
Huh i literally just made a joke about this and now I'm seeing this run. Respect
Hah no way! What was the joke? :D
@@kangaskdan on the highest amount of moves you could use with only 6 pokemon in gen 1
What an interesting video! I love when creators can find something new to do in an older game. Looking forward to Gen Ⅱ!
Thanks so much!
Speaking of starting with Mew, I wonder what the implications would be if you allowed yourself to count a move as used if you used Transform and then used a move while transformed.
That's a great question, that'll require a lot of thought, about what Pokémon wild/trainer levels are and what moves they know at those levels!
But maybe it'd be possible with just a ditto! Although I don't think I've ever seen an enemy use razor wind, so maybe a ditto and a pidgey :D
@@kangaskdan Ditto and Pidgey would truly be the ultimate team 😂
@@kangaskdanmy first thought was mimic! That'd certainly lower the number needed, right? With all the abra line enemies, I'm certain you'd at least be able to skip abra. Would be cool to see!
Il get cracking! :)
@@kangaskdan If you want some good info, I know of a poketuber ScottsThoughts. He does speed runs of Pokemon, usually earlier gens. He back ported Smeargle into Yellow and did a community race. One person rather than try to finish the game fastest attempted to sketch every move possible in the game. That info might be helpful in figuring out at least how many are possible!
you sound sort of like sebastian lague, and i mean that in the best way! (great video btw!)
Thank you! I definitely take that as a compliment, now I just need Sebastian's brain, coding ability, and production quality 😂
Really interesting concept excited for more
Thank you!!
Came from Eggsceptional's video. This was an interesting idea. I was surprised Mew didn't affect anything.
Thanks! And yehh that surprised me too! Turns out all of the must-haves mop up the majority of the TMs, so mew ends up being a glorified transform-user!
@@kangaskdanbut it also eliminates Chansey. Unless Chansey knows another move that is not signature but not covered by any others on the list. Maybe it was.... Sing?
Yehhh sing, double slap, minimise, defense curl... Lots of things mew can't help us out with!
@@kangaskdan ^-^
What a cool guy
This was so good, dude! Being able to write code to do some of your planning is so clutch. I would love to do a collab sometime! Keep up the great work.
Thanks so much Brandon! I'd definitely be up for a collab 😁
before even starting the video, i'm already going "oh wow this looks fun and -- oh no i smell vertex cover problem good luck"
Haha most definitely! I just wish I knew that concept existed before I started, it might have saved me some time :D
It's is going to be an awesome run that's for sure. Keep up it😊.
Thank you! I sure hope so! :)
@@kangaskdan I can't wait 😁.
Hope youve been well, man!
I am thanks! Just getting back into the youtube grind, 8 months of no youtube and no pokemon has caused me to forget what a pikachu is, and who I am :D
Clever you, for all these names.
Haha thanks! I got a bit desperate towards the end, 31 is a lot :D
I didn’t get the name theme until you revealed J’onn, previously I had just assumed there was no theme and just tuned every nickname out lmao.
Haha at least you got it eventually :D
This is a fantastic video idea!
Thanks so much!! I'm glad you enjoyed it :)
really cool idea! excited to see more
Thanks!!
I agree using metronome would make for a very boring run, but transform/mirror move would be interesting to see I think.
Yehh another commenter suggested an alternative version of this run where I just use dittos and see how many moves I can use. Because it'll definitely be less than 165 as I don't think I've ever seen a wild Pokémon or trainer Pokémon using cut or razor wind. But I think it'd be really interesting to see how many moves I can use! :)
This is such a good idea for a video! Got to comment for the algorithm!
Thank you!
Gotta use 'em all! Great video.
Thank you!! Ah damn I knew I should have put that on the thumbnail :D
I loved this video it was so cool , I'm hoping for the next gens !
Thank you! Hopefully I won't keep you waiting too long!
Wow im thankful for youtube algoritm this time around. This idea of video is so good!
Thank you! I'm thankful too! I didn't think anyone would end up seeing this :D
Not sure if I'm losing my mind, but I feel like all the pokemon are named after DC comic characters and I love it.
You may be onto something there :D
What an interesting video. I'm certainly looking forward to what your path in Gen 2 will be and even more so in future generations. I wonder how soon, if ever, you'll have to resort to importing pokémon from previous generations.
Thank you! Not to spoil things too much but il be having to dip into previous generations sooner than you'd think!! :D
Such an interesting video!
Thank you!
Great video! Although I wonder if for future generations Smeargle would be banned for these challenges
Thank you! And yehh definitely, I'll be chucking Sketch into the same "no dodgy stuff" bucket as metronome, mirror move, transform etc :D
No cheating allowed!
I really liked this video. Great stuff.
Thank you!
I'm giggling thinking about you doing gen2. Beat up will take a while, lol.
Oh god I'm going to have to catch a sneasel for the first time in my life!
@@kangaskdan Just wait until you realize where you can catch the only Pokemon that learns pain split🤣😭
Oh damn Misdreavus has 2 signature moves in gen 2! They'll definitely be on the list :D
A bit embarrassed that it took me until you literally called J'onn a martian to realise what the naming convention was.
Haha well at least you got it eventually :D J'onn would be proud :)
This video definitely brought a lot Justice to this League of pokemon ;)
😂
Legendary!
Thanks so much mate, and thank you for the share :)
Love the DC-themed names!
I'll give you one guess as to what the naming theme will be for gen 2 :D
Looking forward to the gen 2 video!
Thanks! I should hopefully make a start this weekend :D
Yay!!! Glooms actually useful for once :,))
Neat!
New Speedrun category?
Thanks! @Zephanus said the same! I think it definitely has potential to get some interesting results, my way was definitely not the speediest!!
Cool! Would love to see a variation where Transform is allowed. I imagine it would be harder both to route and to execute, but that's part of the draw of challenge runs, eh? Also I wonder if there's a way you can loosen your rules enough that you can ban the link cable - like with Trainer Fly, for example. Doing it on one cart has its own kind of purity.
Thanks! Il definitely be doing the ditto only run! And I can always revisit a challenge to try and glitch the version exclusives :)
Would love to see this in other gens, but I know the challenge would get more and more daunting as the games go on
Tell me about it! I'm finishing the gen 2 playthrough today and it was already quite a bit more complicated than gen 1. Gen 3 looks like a nightmare!
Neat. I once briefly pondered a similar topic, but instead of using a move once and it's checked off, how many Pokémon would it take to KNOW every move AT ONCE, meaning a limit of 4 moves per Pokémon?
That's an interesting one!! If every Pokémon learnt every move the number would be 41, but we know that's not the case :D would you have to have unique Pokémon as well? Or could you do it with several chanseys to help out with the TMs :)
@@kangaskdan I think the point of the idea was different Pokémon, but unique/repeats could be different tallies for the sake of comparison. Now if evolution stages counted separate or not…?
@@BioniclesaurKing4t2 Yehh definitely one to think about :D Well if I still have my sanity after doing all moves/fewest mons for gens 2 and 3, il consider coming back to this idea :)
@@kangaskdan Cool, I may have affected the future.
Not going to lie super creative concept
I don't think I ever asked this question but I'm happy I sat through 18 minutes to get the answer lol
Haha thank you, I'm happy to answer questions no one would ever dream of asking 😂
this is so relaxing
Aw thanks! I'm so glad you think so!
This would make a great series
Thanks! I hope so :)
If you have transform, doesn't that eliminate some pokemon? As ditto can use the moves upon transfoming?
It does, but I chose to not use transform, mirror move and metronome in that way. I'm thinking il do a ditto only run in the future to see how many moves I can use just by using enemy movesets :)
@@kangaskdan best of luck looking forward to it
Whould love more vids like this
Thanks! Il see what I can do! :)
Could be a fun alternative speedrun category
Yehhh I definitely think so! A professor oaks challenge for moves. My route/team was certainly not the most time efficient, though regardless of what team you end up, we'd still have to grind out the porygon coins at the end :D
I love this
Thank you! I'm really glad you do :)
great pokemon names, especially the onix
Haha I can't imagine why 😂
@@kangaskdan who could say...
Fun idea!
Did you use Struggle? I must have missed it.
I sure did! It was move #7, I got it out of the way early before my team had too much PP to waste :)
I was so happy when Tim arrived so Damian wasn't the only Robin! Looking forward to Dick and Jason in gen 2 👀👀👀👀
Hahah I decided against Mr Grayson for the sake of the algorithm :D they'll definitely have to show up later, even though I might change name theme for the next one :)
It took me until you named zatanna to realize all/ most of these names were the first names of DC heroes.
Haha at least you got it eventually :D
Love the topic. Sorry if I missed it, but are trades necessary? Among the 19 signatures, can they all be obtained in one game? If so, can the remaining moves be collected that game? If that holds, what's our minimum pokemon count then? And if not, how few moves would be skipped (or require trading, and the minimum trades necessary?)
So I initially decided I had to play in Yellow because Kinesis doesn't exist in red/blue, but then with Yellow on its own I had no access to Glare (ekans), Lovely kiss (Jynx), Twineedle (Beedrill) and a few others! Including the fact that hitmonlee was a signature and hitmonchan crossed a lot of moves off, so regardless of which games I played I'd have had to play 2!
Good vid
Thanks JD!
Wouldnt mimic just complete this challenge easily? It just becomes "how few pokemon does it take to get to saffron with a pokedoll?"
I'm thinking of doing a ditto only version of this run to show how many moves the enemies have, I know there's some for sure they don't have!
Looking forward to it!
Production value is impressive, but I'm a bit disappointed it wasn't centred around using Mimic and Transform to copy moves without actually obtaining their users.
A good showing nonetheless and must have taken a lot of planning!
It took too much planning if anything! Yeh a few people have mentioned mimic/transform/mirror move, I'm going to do that in a separate ditto-only run. As I've done using every move the user has direct access to, now I could do every move the enemy has access to :)
You have a very soothing voice!
Haha thank you :D
One move per pokeyman, plus some change
Haha yeh! At least Gen 2 sorted that one out :D one move per pokemon
I'm curious to see how this would change if ditto using moves from opponent pokemon was counted. How much move variety do enemy trainers have and would it reduce the number of pokemon needed at all?
Stay tuned! Il hopefully be doing that in a few video's time!
Now I'm wondering how many pokemon it would take if you were to cheese the count with metronome, mimic, and transform. How many moves are there that no NPC or wild pokemon have?
Yehh I'm interested in that too so il be doing a ditto-only run to find out how many moves we can get to using just enemy moves :)
wait... wasn't Pay Day in generation 1. a Meowth/Persian exclusive?
I know right! I was convinced the same. But because payday was a TM in gen 1 they gave it to a bunch of different Pokémon, including Pikachu, the nidos, mankey, psyduck...
If this is only about using the moves, couldn't you use transform and/or mirror move to copy some specific moves? At least with transform you definitly use the move. But it's probably a lot harder to calculate because you need to look at every trainer and wild Pokémon to figure out which moves you can copy and if it even helps.
Still an interesting video that answered a question i never asked 😂
Yep it's an interesting question and il be answering it in its own video. This one focussed on what moves we could learn, the next one will focussing on what moves the enemy can learn :)
I love the nicknames are DC themed
Why did you say that name?!
I'm confused as to why Ditto is listed with 2 moves if it can seemingly (according to Bulbapedia and Smogon) only learn Teleport?
Transform + Struggle
Not to knock on the video, it was very good, though 31/81 total pokemon used seems like it could be better. I haven't done the theory crafting to check but I might need to go through and check if there was anyway to cut the list.
Update! Through trading up to a gen 2 game, and breeding in that game for egg moves you can cut it down to 28. Was kinda hoping to get lower but hey that's the best I was able to get
I'm always happy to be proven wrong! So please let me know if you end up getting a smaller list as I'd be really interested to find out!
@@kangaskdan I'll admit I didn't watch to the end before I posted that comment. I see how you got your list though the big thing I think you did miss is gen 1 & 2's cross generation trading. That could probably net you less pokemon
Wait i'm at the beginning of the vid and i'm confused as to why you don't have a beedrill yet? unless there's somewhere else you can catch a beedrill for twin-needle that I just don't remember?
All shall be revealed!
I thought this would be a starter solo run until ditto, then just a bunch of transforming. I wonder how many moves you can encounter from enemy trainers before you need to catch other Pokemon and use TMS.
I think the method in the video was probably more interesting though.
Yehh seems like a lot of people were expecting more ditto action :D il be making a separate video using just a ditto to see how many moves I can get to using just enemy moves :)
What's the name of the PC's program used for this video?
Which one? :)
I used:
- retroarch as the emulator to play the game
- OBS to record the gameplay
- Adobe premier pro to edit the video
- GameHook to access the game's RAM
- some homemade Python and html to develop and display the overlay
Wait, if adding Mew gives 88 combinations that only use 31 Pokémon, but 24 don't use Mew at all, why do you need 32 if you don't include Mew? If you used one of those 24 wouldn't that let you do the challenge with only 31 AND without using Mew?
Yep so 31 is the minimum whether I use mew or not.
The team I used in the run was 31 Pokémon and didn't include a mew, and there 23 other non-mew combos of 31 Pokémon I could have used.
Adding mew into the equation doesn't change the minimum number, which is still 31, but having all the TMs accounted for really opens up the possibilities for team members, giving 64 possible 31-pokemon teams that all include mew.
In conclusion, 31 is the minimum for gen 1 regardless of whether mew is available or not :)
@@kangaskdan Huh, for some reason I thought the first computation came to 32. No idea why.
No worries! Let's see how many are needed for gen 2 :D