I'm the designer of the Vorshlag plate. Good recognition of all the plates. And I'm about to test a change to the camber range to add another 6mm of adjustment. The OEM style spring perch does work differently than the smaller spring perches. The OEM style passes it's force without going through the spherical bearing, but to retain the stock ride height, it took some different hardware than the more modular small spring style.
I've got the Intrax 1k2, which comes with a 14M thread on the shaft of the shock and with OEM springs. I'm trying to configure this on your website but did not seem to have the option to. Is this setup possible mate?
Just installed the Vorschlag last night on my M2C, Im glad you came to the same conclusion as me. I hear lots of noise/clunking issues with the other plates. I agree, its discomforting to ignore the fact BMW says don't use impact tools on the strut, but after double checking with Jason at Vorschlag, he conformed as long as you don't spin the shaft continuously its fine. I did quick burst with an air gun, at its done.
Farkle, do i need to replace stock thrust bearing, A7B024MT or can i keep using it? i have 48k miles on my M3 with millway street and ohlins R&T and I'm going to restore back to stock and was wondering if I need to replace the bearing or keep using what I have?
Thanks for the great content mate. Can I please ask how is the NVH with these camber plates? I have ordered the Intrax 1k2 suspension for my F80 with its own camber plates and I have been thinking of canelling the Intrax camber plate and going for the Millway Street one as it is the only one with rubber. I'll probably end up buying both, do you find significant NVH increase with solid top mounts and camber plates?
awesome comprehensive review. i have been waiting for someting like this for a long time. i have MW street plate for my M3 and i track often. so far so good, i drive the car on street so i went iwth street option. also got MW "street" low control arm as well. those combined with ohlins R&T, amazing car at the track and even on street. i think in the future i'll get vorschlag on m2c since it'll be for track and not dual usage. good overview and still waiting for that camber plate and ohline install video next!
also with MW street camber plate, i think it adds additioanl -2.7 to stock so you can get pretty high camber adjustment. i'm at -3.2 now and still have room to go, not that i'd go any more than that, just letting you know
have you got a chance to check out the millway street camber plates? they look like they don't use a spherical bearing there and isntead use a combination of a milled piece sandwiched between two urethane bushings.
Do you think the camber is safe in front 2.5 rear 2.1 for urban driving in terms of rubber wear what experience do you have? Finally got my vorschlag plates thanks for your review
It’s safe. I run -3 upfront and -2d rear on the street, no problem. Problems-or better- drivability discomfort starts with agressive toe out. Like 0 or beyond. For a daily that tracks periodically, -3 f -2 rear with factory toe (or slightly a bit more toe out) you re good. If you do a lot of digs at the lights go -1.5 d rear.
Great video Farkle. I am currently running the MW Street Camber plates and have been most satisfied with their performance in terms of camber and the price is very competative. Unfortunately, I am having issues with stripping bolts. The hex heads strip easily. I use a torque wrench so I am not going nuts with torque. The have also stripped one hole on the drivers side (left hand drive) on the plate itself. Again, applying torque outlined by Millway (which is relatively low at almost half the OE spec for the hex head bolts BMW uses). Have you found these issues? Thinking of swapping to the Vorshlag but concerned about added NVH. Although to be honest, the MW haven't been silent especially after running them a year.
I'm surprised you're stripping threads and hex cap heads! The threads have helicoils in them which should take a lot of excessive force to strip. As for the cap head screws, do you have the grade 8.8 or 10.9 ones? I've never seen the grade 8.8 ones strip at the recommended 21Nm/15.5ft-lbs torque. I personally replaced all the Millway screws with grade 10.9 bolts that use a 13mm socket, either using the stock bolts or buying shorter ones from the hardware store for the holes closest to the engine. My Millway street plates have been going well for 30k miles.
@@FaRKle0079 I have the 8.8. I have been very careful with torque values so I too am surprised of the striping of the threads. Oddly the right side of the car has been perfect. No issues. The left side has been giving me a list of problems though. I've now developed a squeak on medium to large bumps. It sounds like a perch is squeaking. But why would it? Is the camber causing the issue since the spring isn't flat with the top hat bearing.
@@FaRKle0079 So far the bearing remains in good shape. It was swapped about a year ago. Might be the cooler temperatures or the thrust arm. I'll try some graphite lube on the spring perches to see if I get a positive result.
Hi, I currently installed H&R lowering spring on the oem strut for my F3X and I got some negative camber what do you recommend to get rid of the negative and have my wheels back to oem spec ?
I'd keep the negative camber. These cars come with too little of it from the factory. -1.5 to -2deg negative camber up front and -1 to -1.5deg in the rear should be nice for a street car.
@@brunosanchez8509 Yes, alignment should be able to get your car to track straight. As your camber changes, so does your toe, so the toe could be out/uneven leading to pulling.
Would like to see you review TC Kline camber plates. Those have fixed positions for camber adjustment while all the other camber plates I’ve seen have a variable adjustment. Wouldn’t a fixed adjustment be better ? You could always get the same camber on both sides every time without going to get a realignment every time you wanted to adjust the camber. Why does no one mention this ?
Rarely do you set the plates on both sides to the *exact* same spot to get the same camber on each side. I hear the newer TCK plates moved to a slotted design, like everybody else, instead of discrete points.
Very helpful video, thank you. I have an M2C with KW V3’s. I’m running Cup 2 tyres but would like better steering feedback - I’ll be getting the thrust arm bushings but I’m also contemplating camber plates as people say they can improve steering feel. Would you feel camber plates add steering feedback at daily speeds, or are they beneficial only on track to preserve tyres? I’m thinking additional negative camber with the stiffer tyres will provide better steering feedback. Curious on your thoughts?
I don't really think camber plates will add much steering feel, and I can't say I really noticed after going to them on my F31. If you don't need the extra camber for the track, I wouldn't really recommend camber plates.
I do think steering feel comes from the suspension system,mostly from the damper,the arb,and the toe/caster setting. Damper affects the weight transfer, such as the tire load speed.ARB/caster provide steering force feedback.Toe out will immediately provide the angle need to steer. For daily driving, mostly going straight, cambers gets little benefits, but for touge driving, mostly cornering, cambers making huge differents.
adding camber will def. help especially with that tire and suspension you have. you should do all 3 - suspesion, camber plate, and low control arm bushing. it made a world of difference on my car and on track. i like having neg camber even on street. i'd keep camber plate on street at -2 deg, up from stock camber and it drives so much better. new G8x has more negative camber from factory now. f8x should have had -2 from factory....
@@scottkim844 thank you. I thought as much - especially with the cambered edge of stiff side-walled racing tyres, it should transmit more feedback into the rim with the stiffer top mounts.
From what I've seen of them, they look like they were derived or made in conjunction with Millway. I still have concerns about using a ball joint as small as Millway does, especially when the axial load ratings aren't published. I'm not sold on their fixed camber positions approach. The only other BMW camber plate maker that did that is TC Kline, but I've heard even they've moved away from it. If sliding was such a large issue, the community would be much more aware of it. I think their method of being able to build in caster adjustment is pretty neat, but I wonder how well it works in practice, since it's fixed, and coupled to the camber you're setting and not independently adjustable.
There's nothing remarkable about the TCK plates IMO. I heard this past year that they don't have discrete adjustment settings anymore, but haven't seen pictures to verify that. TCK uses Koni twin-tube shocks for their setups. This should be pretty heavily rebound biased, and be a bit limited on how much compression force it can make. On the flip slide twin tube shocks have lower gas pressure so they should be smoother in daily driving.
I actually decided to go with TCKlines street kit over the ohlins because of everything I had come across regarding ohlins F8X setup (including your videos) I can send you a photo of the plates when the kit arrives if you’d like
@@ryanp7219 Thanks! That's kind of you to offer a photo. I'd be happy with just a reply saying whether the camber adjustment is a big slot (like pretty much every other plate) or still the discrete holes fixing where you can set it. Hope the kit serves you well!
Thanks Farkle, very informative. I just ordered the GC plates for my 240i. There was a little confusion on my part when ordering, when configuring it asks for your spring inner diameter. I asked KW (I have the DDC P&P) what the inner diameter was (95mm) which is not listed on GC site. I ended up ordering the "stock" inner diameter since the coilovers I have reuse the OEM tophat. I'll see in a couple weeks when I get them installed, I guess.
They don't look like anything special to me. I'm not a huge fan of the fixed camber positions and I believe the adjustment bolts are blocked by the aluminum brace (aka they're a hassle to adjust).
I was considering the Millway street plates for my F22. I've got the M3/4 LCA & TS arms installed which introduced another ~-1° negative camber, so I'm at ~-1.9°. Adding the Millway street plates with the LCA/TS combo I assume would allow me more negative camber for a good track setup and the ability to get back to a good street alignment.
If you're already at -1.9deg, you'll probably be able to get -3deg (and maybe a bit more) with the Millway street camber plates. I would just see how the toe changes when changing camber as you go between settings on the camber plate. That may make it not very feasible to have two different settings, or reduce how much difference there is between them.
GC is the better design, you dont want the whole weight on the spherical bearing like on the Vorshlag. It's a slight angle on the shaft , you dont need that much articulation. OEM diesnt articulate for example Nothing but GC going back to my E92 M3
I'm the designer of the Vorshlag plate. Good recognition of all the plates. And I'm about to test a change to the camber range to add another 6mm of adjustment. The OEM style spring perch does work differently than the smaller spring perches. The OEM style passes it's force without going through the spherical bearing, but to retain the stock ride height, it took some different hardware than the more modular small spring style.
Wow, thanks for the insight, and clarification on the OE spring perch version! Good luck with the next revision!
Just bought some Vorshlag plates for my F80 M3. Thanks.
I’m getting hard metal on metal sounds over bumps, otherwise very smooth. Is this normal?
Can you also test the G82 camber plates that they work on the G87 M2 please
I've got the Intrax 1k2, which comes with a 14M thread on the shaft of the shock and with OEM springs. I'm trying to configure this on your website but did not seem to have the option to. Is this setup possible mate?
This video is gonna do big numbers on the F8x forums
Just installed the Vorschlag last night on my M2C, Im glad you came to the same conclusion as me. I hear lots of noise/clunking issues with the other plates. I agree, its discomforting to ignore the fact BMW says don't use impact tools on the strut, but after double checking with Jason at Vorschlag, he conformed as long as you don't spin the shaft continuously its fine. I did quick burst with an air gun, at its done.
От них есть стук?
read your millway post on the m2 forum. Haha. Now I can put a voice to that post. Very insightful content. Keep em coming.
Farkle, do i need to replace stock thrust bearing, A7B024MT or can i keep using it? i have 48k miles on my M3 with millway street and ohlins R&T and I'm going to restore back to stock and was wondering if I need to replace the bearing or keep using what I have?
Thanks for the great content mate.
Can I please ask how is the NVH with these camber plates? I have ordered the Intrax 1k2 suspension for my F80 with its own camber plates and I have been thinking of canelling the Intrax camber plate and going for the Millway Street one as it is the only one with rubber. I'll probably end up buying both, do you find significant NVH increase with solid top mounts and camber plates?
awesome comprehensive review. i have been waiting for someting like this for a long time. i have MW street plate for my M3 and i track often. so far so good, i drive the car on street so i went iwth street option. also got MW "street" low control arm as well. those combined with ohlins R&T, amazing car at the track and even on street. i think in the future i'll get vorschlag on m2c since it'll be for track and not dual usage. good overview and still waiting for that camber plate and ohline install video next!
also with MW street camber plate, i think it adds additioanl -2.7 to stock so you can get pretty high camber adjustment. i'm at -3.2 now and still have room to go, not that i'd go any more than that, just letting you know
Wow, that's quite a bit! I've seen Millway say that the street versions can do 22mm (F2x/3x) and 24mm (F8x) of adjustment.
have you got a chance to check out the millway street camber plates? they look like they don't use a spherical bearing there and isntead use a combination of a milled piece sandwiched between two urethane bushings.
As usual great content 👍
Do you think the camber is safe in front 2.5 rear 2.1 for urban driving in terms of rubber wear what experience do you have?
Finally got my vorschlag plates thanks for your review
Yeah that'll be fine for street driving. I've run camber similar to that for years on my F31.
It’s safe. I run -3 upfront and -2d rear on the street, no problem. Problems-or better- drivability discomfort starts with agressive toe out. Like 0 or beyond. For a daily that tracks periodically, -3 f -2 rear with factory toe (or slightly a bit more toe out) you re good. If you do a lot of digs at the lights go -1.5 d rear.
Where did you purchase your Millway plates? I tried to order but it’s only in Sweden, Is there anywhere to buy them in the states?
You have to buy direct from Millway in Sweden, but they ship VERY quickly to the US (arrives in under a week once shipped).
Great video!! Thank you so much!
super informative video. thank you
Much appreciate!
Great video Farkle. I am currently running the MW Street Camber plates and have been most satisfied with their performance in terms of camber and the price is very competative. Unfortunately, I am having issues with stripping bolts. The hex heads strip easily. I use a torque wrench so I am not going nuts with torque. The have also stripped one hole on the drivers side (left hand drive) on the plate itself. Again, applying torque outlined by Millway (which is relatively low at almost half the OE spec for the hex head bolts BMW uses). Have you found these issues? Thinking of swapping to the Vorshlag but concerned about added NVH. Although to be honest, the MW haven't been silent especially after running them a year.
I'm surprised you're stripping threads and hex cap heads! The threads have helicoils in them which should take a lot of excessive force to strip.
As for the cap head screws, do you have the grade 8.8 or 10.9 ones? I've never seen the grade 8.8 ones strip at the recommended 21Nm/15.5ft-lbs torque. I personally replaced all the Millway screws with grade 10.9 bolts that use a 13mm socket, either using the stock bolts or buying shorter ones from the hardware store for the holes closest to the engine.
My Millway street plates have been going well for 30k miles.
@@FaRKle0079 I have the 8.8. I have been very careful with torque values so I too am surprised of the striping of the threads. Oddly the right side of the car has been perfect. No issues. The left side has been giving me a list of problems though. I've now developed a squeak on medium to large bumps. It sounds like a perch is squeaking. But why would it? Is the camber causing the issue since the spring isn't flat with the top hat bearing.
@@thecasualdiyer6729 How's the OE thrust bearing on the squeaky side? Has that bearing started to wear or fill with contamination causing it to bind?
@@FaRKle0079 So far the bearing remains in good shape. It was swapped about a year ago. Might be the cooler temperatures or the thrust arm. I'll try some graphite lube on the spring perches to see if I get a positive result.
Hi, I currently installed H&R lowering spring on the oem strut for my F3X and I got some negative camber what do you recommend to get rid of the negative and have my wheels back to oem spec ?
I'd keep the negative camber. These cars come with too little of it from the factory. -1.5 to -2deg negative camber up front and -1 to -1.5deg in the rear should be nice for a street car.
@@FaRKle0079 can a alignment fix my steering the car is pulling too much to left and I’ll just leave the negative camber on it ?
@@brunosanchez8509 Yes, alignment should be able to get your car to track straight. As your camber changes, so does your toe, so the toe could be out/uneven leading to pulling.
35mm is how how much in degrees of camber
Ragazzi ho un BMW F32 435d con 420cv, quali mi consigliate?
Millway Street camber plates: www.millway.se/camber-plates-street-bmw-f20-f21-f22-f30-f31-f32.html
Would like to see you review TC Kline camber plates. Those have fixed positions for camber adjustment while all the other camber plates I’ve seen have a variable adjustment. Wouldn’t a fixed adjustment be better ? You could always get the same camber on both sides every time without going to get a realignment every time you wanted to adjust the camber. Why does no one mention this ?
Rarely do you set the plates on both sides to the *exact* same spot to get the same camber on each side. I hear the newer TCK plates moved to a slotted design, like everybody else, instead of discrete points.
Very helpful video, thank you. I have an M2C with KW V3’s. I’m running Cup 2 tyres but would like better steering feedback - I’ll be getting the thrust arm bushings but I’m also contemplating camber plates as people say they can improve steering feel. Would you feel camber plates add steering feedback at daily speeds, or are they beneficial only on track to preserve tyres? I’m thinking additional negative camber with the stiffer tyres will provide better steering feedback. Curious on your thoughts?
I don't really think camber plates will add much steering feel, and I can't say I really noticed after going to them on my F31. If you don't need the extra camber for the track, I wouldn't really recommend camber plates.
I do think steering feel comes from the suspension system,mostly from the damper,the arb,and the toe/caster setting. Damper affects the weight transfer, such as the tire load speed.ARB/caster provide steering force feedback.Toe out will immediately provide the angle need to steer. For daily driving, mostly going straight, cambers gets little benefits, but for touge driving, mostly cornering, cambers making huge differents.
adding camber will def. help especially with that tire and suspension you have. you should do all 3 - suspesion, camber plate, and low control arm bushing. it made a world of difference on my car and on track. i like having neg camber even on street. i'd keep camber plate on street at -2 deg, up from stock camber and it drives so much better. new G8x has more negative camber from factory now. f8x should have had -2 from factory....
@@scottkim844 thank you. I thought as much - especially with the cambered edge of stiff side-walled racing tyres, it should transmit more feedback into the rim with the stiffer top mounts.
I have bmw kw v3 with bmw setting and with milway rubber camber plate and steering is better than oem...
Hi mate, so have you seen the new suspension secrets camber tops just released?
Any thoughts?
From what I've seen of them, they look like they were derived or made in conjunction with Millway. I still have concerns about using a ball joint as small as Millway does, especially when the axial load ratings aren't published.
I'm not sold on their fixed camber positions approach. The only other BMW camber plate maker that did that is TC Kline, but I've heard even they've moved away from it. If sliding was such a large issue, the community would be much more aware of it.
I think their method of being able to build in caster adjustment is pretty neat, but I wonder how well it works in practice, since it's fixed, and coupled to the camber you're setting and not independently adjustable.
Farkle, what’s your take on TCKline plates for the F8X?
(Bonus question what are your thoughts on the street set up coilovers?)
There's nothing remarkable about the TCK plates IMO. I heard this past year that they don't have discrete adjustment settings anymore, but haven't seen pictures to verify that.
TCK uses Koni twin-tube shocks for their setups. This should be pretty heavily rebound biased, and be a bit limited on how much compression force it can make. On the flip slide twin tube shocks have lower gas pressure so they should be smoother in daily driving.
I actually decided to go with TCKlines street kit over the ohlins because of everything I had come across regarding ohlins F8X setup (including your videos)
I can send you a photo of the plates when the kit arrives if you’d like
@@ryanp7219 Thanks! That's kind of you to offer a photo. I'd be happy with just a reply saying whether the camber adjustment is a big slot (like pretty much every other plate) or still the discrete holes fixing where you can set it.
Hope the kit serves you well!
Thanks Farkle, very informative. I just ordered the GC plates for my 240i. There was a little confusion on my part when ordering, when configuring it asks for your spring inner diameter. I asked KW (I have the DDC P&P) what the inner diameter was (95mm) which is not listed on GC site. I ended up ordering the "stock" inner diameter since the coilovers I have reuse the OEM tophat. I'll see in a couple weeks when I get them installed, I guess.
You got the correct perch. The OE springs are about 95/96mm ID. Keep that thrust bearing grime free!
Did you ever ended up putting the ohlins on? I don’t see a video on it
I have! Just haven't gotten around to editing and posting the video, haha.
Very thorough!
Any thoughts on the TC Kline camber plates? Thanks your your help.
They don't look like anything special to me. I'm not a huge fan of the fixed camber positions and I believe the adjustment bolts are blocked by the aluminum brace (aka they're a hassle to adjust).
@@FaRKle0079 Thank You for the feedback
Milway rubber is great!
Agreed! This is a very easy plate to recommend.
It’s not the ground control. I had nothing but problems and quickly went back to stock
I was considering the Millway street plates for my F22. I've got the M3/4 LCA & TS arms installed which introduced another ~-1° negative camber, so I'm at ~-1.9°. Adding the Millway street plates with the LCA/TS combo I assume would allow me more negative camber for a good track setup and the ability to get back to a good street alignment.
If you're already at -1.9deg, you'll probably be able to get -3deg (and maybe a bit more) with the Millway street camber plates. I would just see how the toe changes when changing camber as you go between settings on the camber plate. That may make it not very feasible to have two different settings, or reduce how much difference there is between them.
All those camber plates will move under a big load. The small bolts can not hold the force
How much is oem camber angle on your M2?
F8x cars' have a front negative camber spec of -1.483deg +/-0.417deg. So should roughly be -1.5deg.
If someone doesn't tell me how to get Milway F30 3 bolt camber plates Ima blow a head gasket.
GC is the better design, you dont want the whole weight on the spherical bearing like on the Vorshlag. It's a slight angle on the shaft , you dont need that much articulation. OEM diesnt articulate for example
Nothing but GC going back to my E92 M3
I would never use my hood as a table, just poor etiquette.