Everyone Confronts Destiny On His Ana Kasparian Tweet
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 ต.ค. 2024
- Last night on Destiny ft. Pisco, Pondering Politics, Avi and more!
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When someone starts a conversation with "I saw your tweet... I think you should take it down," then you know the most insufferable conversation is about to follow 😂
If Pisco just comes into the call, you know it's about to be an insufferable conversation. lol.
I wish people would just be as anal as he is back to him. "what, do you think baracading someone in an office is Non-violent? No? Then the trans movement is not non violent!"
Holy shit it's the BigDan I hope starfield is good enough so you can make content about it, and ME4 is cool too. Have a nice day Commander Dan.
@chronographer Even if it isn't directly violent, the methods we have seen from them are still forceful and thuggish. It might create obediance, for a time, but it will harm real change.
@@Reel___I came into this video without any context to know what they were talking about. In the beginning, I was actually on Pisco's side. But, as the discussion went on, he kept losing me more and more.
There's a reason Martin Luther King Jr disavowed violence and violent rhetoric. If you want to win and retain public support, it is very important to hold your movement to high standards, no matter how righteous the cause.
Predictably, Pisco shows himself to be completely not worth the time to listen to whatsoever. Destiny's right, there's a huge gap between 'violence' and 'non-violence'. Non-violence implies going out of ones way to avoid violence and condemning it, not just being peaceful.
i wonder whether pisco would be less autistically focused on semantics if you replaced non-violence with non-aggression. he creates this dichotomy between violent and non-violent groups that makes no sense. trans activism isn’t violent, nor non-violent. it’s neutral on violence which is precisely the issue. non-aggression might have been more clear.
@@synlion Frankly I agreed with Pisco on some of the semantical arguments, even though I completely disagreed with him on his position on the tweet. I think it is really important to not needlessly broaden the term 'violence'.
But I agree with you that he misses the mark on the difference between an active strategy of non-violence; compared to passively not being violent (or what could be called being neutral on violence). It is pretty clear that Ana was talking about the active tactic of non-violence, and not on merely lacking violence. The difference between passive and active is something that comes up in other semantical arguments. (yes I realize I am also autistically focused on semantics; but words is how we communicate)
I probably wouldn't agree with Pisco at all in the conversation; if it wasn't for it seeming like Destiny was expanding the term violence for certain types of speech. Granted, everyone realized a different term should be used; but Stochastic T-word is also terrible, and they were unable to settle on any terms. I frankly don't know why they weren't able to find the term 'inflammatory'. Like of the speech Destiny was pointing out as causing problems; was there any that wouldn't meet the term 'inflammatory'?
Being inflammatory, divisive and destructive is dangerous for a movement seeking to gain support and make positive change; and this is something that Ana and Destiny think a light should be shined on.
@@josephburchanowski4636 The issue is the people broadening the term for violence are speaking the same ideas as the people committing the old definition of violence. It tends to be LGBT groups, ANTIFA, and BLM groups who speak of words as violence, misgendering, talking about immigration, or saying the N-word as examples. But then at the same time they are not outright condemning the people who imprison people in their office for hours, Black block tactics to hide people committing property damage, or the fiery but mostly peaceful protests after Floyd.
The issue is the left in general has been living under a double standard for as long as I have been alive. Republicans are all racist, stupid, and violent. While the left are all inclusive, academic, and victims. This has been the stereotype that has been pushed since I was a child. So Trump saying, "peacefully march up there and fight for what we know is right," is considered violence because he said the word fight, but then there is a montage of Democrats saying "fight" calling for riots and it is considered not just peaceful but inclusive and standing up for the oppressed. During the Floyd trial congress woman, Maxine Waters, literally said, "Get more confrontational," if it doesn't come back guilty on every count. Maxine Waters is still in office and hasn't faced any consequences for telling protestors to turn into rioters.
Other double standards would be Trump, Clinton, and Biden in how them illegally holding onto federal classified documents was handled. Part of the Trump inditement is him asking his lawyer, "can we do the Hillary thing?" Another difference is how the Election was handled. Trump is being indited for contesting the election in what he believed to be a legal method, because historically a Democrat literally did the same exact thing in Hawaii. On top of that we spent 3 years on Trump Russia on literally trumped up charges, when a number of places that went towards Biden completely refused to do a recount of anything other than the machines result.
People are not stupid, they are busy with their lives so they don't see everything that happens. That doesn't mean they don't see any of this, and at a certain point what is going to happen is the general public is just going to never vote Democrat ever again. I am already at that point where I will only vote Independent or Republican until the Democrat party changes their ways on a fundamental level.
I love how Pisco brought up the "but it's just Twitter" argument in the middle of him crying about a Tweet
To be fair, he's speaking toward a perceived overgeneralized statement on an entire movement. That is not the hypocrisy you imply it is. Use a little brain power and you might be able to understand why.
@@cineris2389 nah he was being a little bitch baby about a tweet
Braindead statement
@@cineris2389 found the Piss Corp legal dept intern
Why does that matter? He's talking about a general trend and how a specific comment perceives a movement.
This guy is the definition of you're with us or against us. No middle ground, no nuance, or trying g to understand what one person meant to say. They take it as what they want the message to mean to them.
This is why we in Europe now have left wing groups split up, as a anarchist i cant be behind these types anymore!
@@AceHighAlbion The US isn't far behind. As far as splitting up the parties. The public is already heading in that direction.
I don't see it that way. Destiny was a bumbling fool in this debate. He was all over the place and tried qualifying arguments with planck lengths between the comparison Pisco gave as examples. "Yes, you can hold trans activist's accountable for BLM riot violence ( keep in mind an overwhelming small amount of the BLM protests were violent)." Five minutes later, "I wouldn't consider a large group of people violent because it's unnecessarily broad. As time goes on Destiny's arguments are becoming less and less sound. His arguments are becoming semantic performances similar to how Fuentes argued with him when they first met.
@@nickvalheru LOL im not talking about splitting up parties LOL
Im talking about the left in general. (like people that dont vote )
@@HavenAndre keep in mind an overwhelming small amount of the BLM protests were violent coping hard
I feel lucky to not have met someone who actually listens to Hasan
you have to leave your basement for that
My gf listens to Hasan and H3H3 religiously (including their podcast together), and I honestly can't stand it ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
@@ThomasDonadeiAll u have to do is ask them questions about things until they inevitably have the pull the video and quote it exactly because they have no idea how to critically think
I don’t argue with hasan fans IRL they are highly likely to go nuclear and tell the group you’re a POS
I live in a hugely liberal university educated milieux full of people who are absolutely certain of their moral correctness on every issue without looking into the facts of the matter on anything. Its fucking tiring, especially the endless virtue signaling and strawmaning of anyone to the right of Bernie.
I basically have to bite my tongue all the time of risk total social ostracism. Consider yourself lucky.
I can’t be forced to listen to hasan this early
I actually like Hasan
Right in your feed
@@Alex-oi7cd Then you are lost
@@Alex-oi7cdso you like a racist transphobe?
eeewwww british?????
MLK spent some time arguing about breaking the law, and why it was important to him in protest. He goes a long way, criticizing Plato's Crito and laying down conditions for direct civil disobedience. It's a pretty calculated formula and he makes entire arguments to justify breaking the law through careful examination of the law, history, and what to do. It doesn't condone or advocate for rioting in any way, because MLK kinda had reverence for Liberalism and procedure, he felt like the law didn't protect him or other African-Americans well, which is why he set out to define laws he thought were unjust and specfically break THEM and not other laws or in chaotic fashion. In fact, this is a huge portion of the Letter from Birmingham Jail edgy lefties like to parrot when they make enemies of normal white people
This is what I've been saying for years. It's like far leftists think MLK just had the moral high ground, so he inevitably won.
But the civil rights movement was meticulously planned. Challenging laws that he knew were unconstitutional. He was also very aware of right wing medias tendency to blow up any violence. And that's a big reason he had a 0 tolerance policy on violence within the movement. He knew that any violence from the movement needed to be condemned immediately.
That's part of what makes MLK a badass and a role model for activists. It's a shame how often people misinterpret his methods or make up "facts" about him to justify their actions that MLK himself would have condemned.
I actually read the whole thing thinking it was going to end with Destiny is a girls name
@@ThatScrubWolfexcept let’s be real - Destiny would still mald over any modern group that did this. He’d insist they weren’t actually trying to target specific laws, or that their protests (such as the freedom riders) were only going to hurt the working class. Most likely he would go on his usual rants involving terms such as ‘larping leftie dipshits’, ‘terminally online’, ‘rich college kids’ and of course, ‘white’ lmao. Literally the only reason Destiny is jumping on this take is because his entire system of political beliefs is based on seeing what his 10 most hated ‘leftie’ Twitter accounts are saying on a topic, then desperately trying to claw his way to a more ‘moderate’ position (even if it’s braindead) before insisting ‘No you don’t understand, nobody has thought about the nuances of this topic, unlike me’ lmao.
@@ThatScrubWolfit's fascinating they try to claim he wasn't ever popular by using his popularity dip after he criticized the Vietnam war to claim the civil rights movement wasn't as popular as it actually was, and that he was communist by using 1 sentence in a letter that he admonishes communism in
Peaceful is not the same thing as non-violent. Non-violence is an explicit tactic, and that needs to be stated and agreed with in a movement. Its not enough to abstain from violence to be "non-violent". You have to be committed to not retaliating, not agressing, which is certainly not the trans *activist* position. Edit: non-violent resistance movements are generally understood to have originated with Gandi, and to claim to be part of that political cannon is something quite specific. Its quite a radical position and not neccecarily always appropriate. Non-violence is not inherently more or less ethical than other forms of political activism.
No it is not their position! Thank you for stating that, these trans people are being completely violent.
And they're being just awfully damn rude..... And unlady like too.
If they want to call themselves women, then the first thing they need to know about women is how we interact with one another!
If a woman can tell that she is making other women and girls in a room around her uncomfortable, or they don't feel safe.... Then out of respect, the woman making everybody uncomfortable will leave. She just will! And that could be for any number of reasons, this is how women flow with one another.
And on the rare occasion that the woman doesn't get the picture, a woman will ask that woman to leave or straight up tell her, bitch its time to go!
But we aren't even allowed to treat trans women like other women. I mean I'm sorry, but if you're a woman in a locker room, but you're standing there with your penis hanging out in front of God, women and children...... It's going to make us all a little uncomfortable, and if you're really a woman, you'll pick up on that discomfort and put that penis away..... And leave, because now it's just weird if you stayed.
I don't know why it would be out anyway during a conversation, we women don't just hang out socializing with one another with our vaginas hanging out..... And our breasts waving around all national geographic like! 🤷
Believe It or not women are pretty modest in areas like locker rooms, and bathrooms..... That's why we have stalls to change in and to pee in.
I'm just so sick of being told that these are women and I need to treat them as women....... But then get called a transphobe if you call it out when they're acting absolutely nuts!!!
Non-violence in this description would obviously necessitate heavy regulation of thoughts and speech as well.
That’s what’s missing, the introspection
Agreed. Sit ins were still an aggressive protest method while still being non-violent
@@soccerwizard975 I wonder if there's an analogy here with pacifism? Here we broadly see there is something that isn't pacifism but isn't pro invasions. I'm not a pacifist, I don't think we should get rid of the military, so does that make me pro-war? In a certain sense, yes, because I believe in having a military, but in a certain sense no because I'd prefer not to use if unless strictly necessary
Whatever the rights and wrongs of this position are, we acknowledge it exists, because it is a mainstream position
@soccerwizard975 great illustration.
I will say the most crazy/insane people ive met were trans activists in university. They constantly talked about fighting fascists and punching "nazis"...and to them a "nazi" was basically my republican voting dad. Im going to have to agree with Ana here as hanging around some of those people was legitimately scary.
My only interaction with trans people was in Thailand(im thai) and those people were 1000x more normal and reasonable than many of the straight white activists i met in college.
Dam that’s crazy. Have you ever met the straight white anti trans activists who attack pride events and protest “groomers” at schools?
they're normal because they don't have their existence denied by legislators trying to score political points. I can tell you that I went to school in a heavy KKK area, and those people could act real normal. I think it's hilarious that you say you were scared to be around someone who wanted to punch people who want to vote their rights away. What form of political expression should we allow?
So your dad has identified with a "group" that is anti progressive and historically fascist...
I think you should chill with the gaslighting..
What, are you gonna call me a racist just because i join the kkk? 😂
After working for a while and being out in the world. I have noticed that trans people everywhere and just want to be normal I suppose. Not really sure how to word that. But most of the people who I know have transitioned don’t talk about it too much or even at all.
You can correct me if I'm wrong but from my understanding Thai ladyboys don't consider themselves literally women. And I think that's what trans means to a lot of Americans.
I actually cannot stand Pisco, the way he tries to communicate and argue is the most infuriating shit I've ever had to listen to.
Pisco has the persuasive abilities of a short bus. Couldn't give a cripple crab a crutch.
Pisco is spitting 100 % facts. You don't like him because he's making Destiny sound like a lunatic arguing from emotion.
He kinda doesn't always touch roots with reality. To understand this man's points, you have to intentionally ignore the times he contradicts himself (sometimes in the same sentence) and read between those lines for his actual point, which is, in these contexts, just an appeal to normativity.
He's a lawyer, it's his job to be difficult and scrutinizing
@@Reel___Destiny was just specifically speaking about radicals and Pisco thought he was speaking about the whole movement. Seems like they were just not understanding what each other were saying.
Without time stamps how do I skip to when people are yelling at each other.
From 1:00:34
To 1:01:12
Consider his Kyle Rottenhouse take.
Scroll through the video, anytime you see destiny moving his character in a circle is when we’re at a hot point
@@bigdadybojangls9219😂
Not me being at 30:36 rn xD
@@bigdadybojangls9219Haha! True.
You can tell Pisco's a lawyer because he can spend an hour saying a whole lot of words while not really saying anything at all lmao.
or it just went over your head
Classical lawyer: After the first 2 minutes he doesn't add anything of significance, but he rambles on and on, because he wants to get billed for the entire hour.
Pisco is taking about actions, destiny is taking about attitudes. Pisco is arguing that there is very little violent actions in the trans movement, which destiny had agreed to. Destiny is saying that the civil rights movement condemned violence, while many modern progressive movements (including trans) do not disavow violence, and in some cases encourage or call for it.
They’re both correct, but pisco is merely focusing on the physical outcomes (low violence and high reward) of the movement as opposed to the dialogue and perception (aggressive and powerful).
After Nashville, the very first statement from the WH was about how they support Trans people and the important thing is how this will impact Trans people
"Please understand, the actions of these extreme people do not represent the whole movement...but you should probably do as they say and let them off the hook."
I think there is a certain way Lawyers and Law students are trained to argue such that when you take them out of a legal setting they can make a dialogue worse
They can think they win in forms of legality, but definitely not in logic.
So frustrating and in such bad faith. Not to come to a truth, but to win an argument. We will get nowhere fast with that method.
Yes because law follows the guidelines set by legislation, which isnt the way most people think, feel or talk. Its alien to the vast majority of people. When people talk about violence its not the legal definition of violence. It can mean anything from "making me uncomfortable" to killing someone. The spectrum is wide and lawyers have an issue with that.
@CrestOfArtorias Yeah those are the technical reasons for it ....I think the issue comes in is that Lawyers are given a lot of credence even when they are stepping outside of a legal debate and their way of thinking can make a conversation worse cos they often struggle to break out of that legal mindset
“When the facts are on your side, pound the facts. When the law is on your side, pound the law. When you have neither, pound the table”
@@CrestOfArtorias And spitting legally qualifies as assault.
Law is no clearly defined process with specific inputs and outputs like a calculator of justice, it is an abstract contest between two combatants whose level of play is determined by their education in sophistry, their skill, and their level of engagement (usually decided by how much they are getting paid and which side they are on) which is judged by a jury of (totally legitimate) unbiased peers and a judge, many of whom openly wear political leanings.
It would be very good for society to realize this. I don't see how people look at things like the Line-Item veto and don't immediately want to start smashing things.
Chasing someone into an office and not allowing them to leave is called false imprisonment. That is a form of violence.
and based
Following someone isn't a crime.
@@usucdik perhaps reading comprehension is not your strong suit. Preventing someone from leaving an area is false imprisonment. It’s not the following, which can be considered stalking, it’s the imprisonment that is violence. Using physical force or threats of physical force to keep someone in a place they don’t want to be is illegal and violent.
based
@@usucdik With the intent of commiting violence or locking that person up? It is.
_"That's how the Tea Party was hijacked by Glen Beck."_
It's always funny when you get a little flash of evidence that Destiny really _was_ following conservative politics back in the day.
that was a really nice response from him
Or that he is engaged at all in the conversation 🤣
He was more on the Libertarian side of it though rather than the Conservative from what I understand
@@MrJpc1234I believe as a kid he was a conservative Christian until he became an atheist and that’s when he became more libertarian. But he was a kid so he was probably more just following his parents’ politics
Back in the day? I wouldn't be so sure it was just back in the day
I love that the LAWYER is like, "Everyone else in the movement doesnt have to answer for all the bad actors..." then 10 seconds later he says, "Thats due to people like you not taking responsibility..." or whatever..
Just like 'your just getting influenced by Twitter!' after arguing for 20min about why destiny should reword a tweet he made.
I wonder if he would have the same energy about January 6th?
@@chronographer Destiny is a person who has a ton of influence and knows that his words will be used in a way to hurt marginalized communities. He isn't just your average Twitter user
@@basedgamerguy818 [citation needed]
pisco trying to argue that violent laced rhetoric that ana calls out in her tweet is her defining the trans movement as a violent organization that needs to be on a FBI watchlist.
Destiny literally tells him that he's binary in his thinking and that it's fair to say that rhetoric and endorsement of violence can lead to it. Pisco wants everyone to act in hindsight to things that haven't happened, but criticizes anyone that wants to sound alarms for the path a movement could be heading down.
It's like arguing you shouldn't pull a fire alarm if you only see smoke, and that it would be better to wait for the flames to start appearing and then start spreading around you before trying. You're in an infinitely worse position and so are the people around you, just because you wanted to wait for the danger to start and spread.
No it is like arguing that it is ok to pupl the fire alarm when you see someone using a vape. Face value the lady said violence. Without a whole bunch of context (thay destiny takes awhile to explain) it doesnt make sense.
Occams razor. Why wouldnt she say what she meant. If she meant something else it is on her to say it.
Also not denouncing violence is drastically different than stirring or commiting violence. It is insane to compare them.
I facepalmed when neither them could seem to figure out that support of violence isn't actually violence itself and yet is still a pretty bad thing to do.
Lol..
Fr it's bc that whole 'words can be violence' ideology can't be outright called out..
It's symbolic of so many leftist ideologies that start on a good idea(speech that supports violence is bad) into an absurd ideology like speech IS violence.
So violence is unacceptable, in a nation that was created through an elitist right-wing conspiracy?
It really depends on your definition of violence. The left has adopted the concept that words (or even silence) is violence. Most people find this notion ridiculous, because it is, but then again 5 years ago gender and sex were synonyms...
Language is a powerful tool, that's the biggest lesson from 1984. If you can control the language, you can control the narrative and thus history and the social reality that stems from it.
He who controls the past, controls the future.
@@femsplainer and the right calling protesters violent when the object of that violence is a piece of property is not rediculous at all
sex and gender were never synonyms except purely in laymen terms.
"They're achieving their goals"
and creating a huge amount of resentment and distance in society.
Demands, threats, aggressiveness, silencing etc. aren't ways to gain any form of trust or mutual respect. This is some narcissistic shit that these kids are doing to the point where the trans community is cracking and the ones who just wanted to live their lives etc don't feel welcomed and don't want be a part of it.
Edit: Interesting discussion in the comments I would also add: Pisco is a litigator so he should know the lawful definition of Violence encompasses Intimidation. Fear of speaking against, our, possible threats which falls into my "Demands, threats, aggressiveness, silencing aren't ways to gain any form of trust or mutual respect"
ding ding ding
They are literally trying to force acceptance and impose ideology and don't understand why everyone hates them. 😂
Even if they succeed, it won't be acceptance it will be 80% of the population PRETENDING to accept them but despising them in secret. That will solve nothing in fact it will be worse.
Yup, these nutjobs not being called out and ostracised from the "community" is making the whole movement look bad.
The easy way to get it across is acab, not all trans activists are bad, but the bad apples taint the image, much like how not all cops are bad, but bad apples etc.
@@hijklmnopreaper The pushback isn't just conservatives. It's coming from liberals and centrists too. The vast majority of the hate is against wokeness, not trans people, however academia and corporations have stupidly turned the rainbow flag into a symbol of woke. Like they are viewed as one thing now and it sucks for lgbt because they didn't decide this. I'm sure most lgbtq don't want anything to do with wokeness but now their flag and their movement has been hi jacked by woke zealots.
Even gays, lesbians and trans have started a movement against wokeness btw. They say the woke are undoing decades of progress and they're right. Society is regressing because of the religious left.
@@hijklmnopreaper In the uk we've been moving away from trans acceptance because of stuff like the sports debate or trans identifying children.
@@hijklmnopreaperou can't honestly believe this.... 😂 You are coping my friend.
"you're saying you would change your mind if the majority of influencers came out and condemned violence? NO WAY!!!!!"
it's at times like this i wonder if pisco is just arguing in bad faith
If he's arguing in good faith then I'm surprised he has the faculties to dress and feed himself, because he has the most moronic takes I've ever heard.
He literally only argues in bad faith. That’s what happens when you argue backwards from the conclusion
@@erichooper2794 I wouldn't call ignorance bad faith. It sounds like he's convinced himself his position is true. Even if you can't penetrate his reasoning, I wouldn't say he's bad faith. Just stubborn and convinced he's right and Destiny is wrong.
He wouldn’t, Destiny just constantly searches twitter for content and would find someone else to hate and “debate” with.
@@donovan4222 you are confusing destiny with hasan
I like how the entire argument is "why are you letting the actions of a few people determine your view of the movement?"
Gee, maybe because these "few people" are, you know, being DEFENDED by the majority of the movement?
Yeah, that means the majority of the movement must be violent - I mean such a low bar for violence, we will have to include hurty words in that but somehow I think the people against the excesses of the trans movement are the same ones that venerate free speech.
The majority of the movement don’t know these people exist: the fuck are you on about.
@@hijklmnopreaper ...the Minneapolis shooter. Did you not pay attention?
Hell, Destiny didn't even mention it, but we had people defending the trans criminals in Florida and Virginia which led to major Republican wins there.
Have you not kept up with the news?
@@hijklmnopreaper I couldn’t imagine being a person like you who is a complete waste of time talking to.
@@hijklmnopreaperChoosing to be ignorant does not make you right, not does it give you the moral high ground.
Every time this happens it gets harder for me to believe this group of “crazies” is as small as destiny says it is.
It definitely isn't small. The same way right wingers who would try to cope about how unhinged Trump supporters are would say. If you went to a BLM protest, anyone in Hassan's audience and asked them if they support those people, they would say yes because they are those people.
hes already flipped his opinion on this, for the past year he's said the small group of crazies (twitter) has started seeping into irl.
It is spending too much time no the internet if you believe otherewise.
People defending their clan to the death is nothing new or unique to the online left.
@@deeky1239 That's definitely not true. A larger portion of Hassan's audience are girls who can't even throw a ball much less a brick through a window.
If a group's rhetoric is violent, they will be treated as violent people. Even if no person in that group ever engages in violent action.
What the violent rhetoric that we should be aware of for this movement?
@@CoryametaLabeling anyone who doesn't toe the line for your ideology a bigot.
Saying absurd shit like if you play a Harry Potter video game you are being violent towards all trans people everywhere.
"We will burn the closet down before we go back in it".
"MY PRONOUNS ARE BLAH BLAH BLAH AND YOU NEED TO GET THE FUCK OFF MY CAMPUS!!!" yelled at the top of their lungs so a guest can't speak.
Chanting and singing about coming for peoples children.
@@Coryametathe comparison between the great replacement and trans genocide would be a good example. Both are essentially telling people to be violent to protect themselves and their group
@@jonesdaevilone'd say there is a huge difference here. The laws and the premise of the great replacement is greatly skewed by conservative pundits where they are essentially lying to hype up their base.
For trans rights, those conservative pundits have voiced wanting to eradicate trans ideology, in turn trans people, much like they were doing to gay people before. And they have been actively passing laws taking away their rights. Those laws and conservative takes are not skewed into lies by leftist pundits, like the lies of the great replacement.
@@jonesdaevilone LOL
Financial support to terrorism = Violence. Emotional support to terrorism = Non violence.. Riiiiiigggghhhtt got it 😅
I think, it would be support of violence but not violence in and of itself. I'm a retard afterall so take what I say with a grain of salt.
Yeah he lost me there because I thought he was just being VERY literal, then he deflected to saying material support was also violence
That makes sense to me. Like donating money to a terrorist group is much closer to committing an actual violent act then just emotionally supporting them because the financial support is a tangible resource that would be used to commit violence.
Is it inherently a violent act to emotionally support a group or cause that uses or endorses violence? If not, is it dependent on how acceptable the violence committed by the group is? (I.e the violence police commit is going to be looked at differently than the violence committed by a terrorist group)
@wwenexusfan908 that's still pretty subjective. Emotional support can be just as encouraging or supportive. What if they are extremely well funded terrorists but no one supports their cause?
Are they more likely to be influenced by $20 or a group of people cheering them on?
@@MrGgabber Trueeee
Darius heard that first part about "winning with grace" and took it a bit too literal
😂
fr fr ong
I can [not] fix her.
There were people on the left that were rationalizing the Aiden Hale school shooting from March of this year to the point of justification. I definitely remember seeing some “Yeah it’s bad, but I’m sure it was hell for her at that school” type comments a few months back.
Kyle Rittenhouse
Is that like... bad? Doesn't that just imply that we should be more accepting and not bully people so they don't get trauma that makes them do crazy shit like shoot people?? Are you arguing that that is a justification, like it's good that a person who was bullied snapped and shot people??
Holy brainrot, jesus fucking christ.
Bullying leads to psychological issues that cause shit like school shootings, that means STOP BULLYING, not "it's good when a bullied kid shoots up the school"
@@darrene.vonbraun4421Kyle Rittenhouse defended himself from people who were aggressively attempting to burn down businesses in the closest city to where he lived.
I didn't follow any of the online conversation over that mass shooting so I can't say if people went as far as justifying the shooter's actions or feelings. I do remember when most mass shooters were perceived to be young men who were social outcasts/victims of bullying who eventually broke like the Columbine kids or the Virginia Tech shooter. People were never particularly sympathetic toward them, but there was some degree of awareness that they were a product of a system failing them.
@@darrene.vonbraun4421Try again with an apples to apples comparison...
The easiest solution to this argument is to say "to be considered nonviolent you have to disavow violence"
TRUE
That’s a weird rule you just made up
@@donovan4222 thats pretty much what hes trying to say
@@e115x525 I would say non violent means just not physically hurting anyone
@@donovan4222 Or calling for violence, or endorsing violence or being apathetic toward violence
"Fiery but mostly peaceful" energy raditates off of Pisco, and he is oblivious to how toxic it is.
Why am I awake and about to watch a 2 hour video?
hell yea
Because Destiny is a womans name
Yes u gonna watch it!
Go to sleep homie
Bruh same
Pisco thinks so loudly it’s disturbing. The silence that accompanies his self-justifying mental gymnastics is defining.
Oh please daddy, barbeque my brain with some Pisco thought experiments and hypotheticals. Aw yeah... this is like trying to piss calculous work on the snow during a hurricane, no problem.
i approve of your colorful imagery. kudos.
@@SSStylishCombo Is this a reference to JonTrons flowery language?
I want to know what Pisco's attorney retainer fee is so that I can plan and save accordingly in case I ever need to hire a good attorney, and not just some guy whose strategy is to irritate the jury into agreeing with him.
@@nickgardner1408 If I had to pick between hiring PissCo and representing myself, I'd just go to jail.
@@RanEncounter it wasnt, because ive only listened to the jontron debate once and ive forgotten most of it, lol. so im not even sure what the reference is.
Gets really hard to take Pisco seriously. Not that he's lawyer-brained. More that either his lawyer brain isn't a particularly good one, or he selectively chooses to deactivate it.
"One, because there are people playing into that rhetoric. You are absolutely right about that." Okay, Pisco... so you 100% agree with Destiny. Got it. Thanks for hopping on the call.
I 100% agree winning with grace is important and so is losing with grace. It stops the exact thing that is the opposition trying to get even/get payback. The more you fight the deeper theyll try to put you into the ground. A lost battle doesnt mean youve lost the war.
God Pisco is such an L.
I think he’s actually right. Right wing militias are cropping up all over the country with masks and nazi flags. Trans women are more likely to get murdered than almost any other demographic. It’s crazy to paint them as anything but victims.
I think one of the biggest differences between the right and left on the trans issue is that Michael Knowles at CPAC said “we need to eradicate transgenderism from public life” to roaring applause where as trans issues probably wont be mentioned at the DNC
Something Destiny conviently forgets
@@franklingoodwindestiny literally shits on conservatives for being extreme all of the time. Where did this myth come from that destiny is a conservative simp? He spent 100k getting democrats elected I’ve rather course of 2 election seasons
The difference is that trans is against the grain and needs to be sympathised with and understood, conservatives/republicans do not need to do that work, it's very easy for them to point at the crazy takes and when no figures on the left disavow those takes it's even easier. Destiny is just advising that it would make a big difference to most normies if lefty talking heads disavow that stuff, and people are coming back with what about the right blabla, not realising that he is not trying to help the right. Michael Knowles would not get that roaring applause if the progressives didn't make it so easy. Trans issues may be mentioned at the DNC if progressives were not so terrible at politics.
It’s probably, because destiny is smart and knows Knowles has sense clarified and said he meant transgender ideology. You can choose to believe he’s lying though.
I hope I never have Pisco as an attorney.
"Nonviolence" is a strategy, a strategy which is not being employed now. You dont have to look long to find threats being thrown around. Not just threats of physical violence, but threats to your job, family life, peaceful existence in society in general.
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand this is a symptom of online culture, NOT trans activism.
If you think black people would have all been kumbaya in the civil rights era if Twitter existed, you're a delusional person.
There haven't even been riots over trans issues yet, and that happened multiple times in the 60's.
Why this huge focus on trans protest when people were rioting for 6 months over George Floyd only a couple years ago?
Trans issues/protests barely effect anyone outside of Twitter, it's just what D got banned for, honestly sick of hearing about them.
Then I guess the civil rights movement was bad because there was plenty of threats of violence going around. You would be one of the 70% of white people who opposed MLK while he was alive.
i can never argue hasans points bc i cant be bothered to listen to him speak for longer than 3 minutes honestly
I am baffled as to why he is the most popular political streamer.
Do you argue them by yourself
Jokes on you, he loves listening to himself speak
@JobVanDam His fanbase consists of white zoomers. The more generic you as a person are, along with your takes. Easier it is to attract these people
@@JobVanDam because he's hot
Pisco was almost bearable in yesterday's video but our favorite full-tard came in today and did not disappoint
can't stand this guy
PissCo can only look good in comparison to other *morons.*
Damn letsgooooo. I needed something to keep me from sleepin
Sleep, it's crucial
@@yassinsuleiman655 on a specific schedule, got a few hours till its time to knock out for the night.
God Pissco is so debate brained in this conversation
I used to wonder why people hate lawyers.
Then I discovered Pisco.
He is a genuine piece of human excrement
Tbf, he's only been an attorney for like a week or something. He is still suffering from lawschool brain rot.
@@MrUbercroz explains a lot, Pisco probably received his certificate written in crayons
Gotta love the Central Europe breakfast schedule
i just woke up and bros gonna make me listen hasan
its amazing how lost people get when you escape the binary of the right and left tribal battle
Only if you see it as a tribal battle. Populists have no ideological lens through which to view policy and events. I’ll be a leftist regardless of how any other leftist acts.
Its like that story of the guy that was cursed to see the truth but noone would believe him
Wow that’s so deep bro
What really gets them going is when you have beliefs from both the left and right. Then they really lose their shit. People from the right will lose their shit when they find out you don't believe in god. And people on the left will lose their shit when they find out that you only believe in two genders.
Pisco is some sort of living example as to why law schools need to be shuttered.
Thankfully I have been banned from most platforms which helped me become a less chronically online person and it has really opened my eyes to how much it shapes your perception of the world. It feels as if this thing with Ana is the most important news in the world and that most people know about it but in fact this is ultimate fringe internet nerd drama. If you poll a bunch of normal people at the grocery store I would be surprised if 10% recognize her face from something, let alone who Ana is and her current arc development and the inner workings of TYT.
I love the comments, I love interacting with people in the comments, I love reading comments. But the vast, vast majority of viewers are not commenting. And the vast vast majority of people are not even watching these channels and topics. Comments, tweets, subreddits, are completely unrepresentative of the general consensus, yet it feels as if you are reading the true opinions or the whole society. You get thousands of crazy replies on a tweet that must mean people in real life feel similar. Yet it really doesn’t, in IRL nobody would give asf about Ana’s statement. Hell even the very same people foaming at the mouth on Twitter would say absolutely nothing IRL.
Most ppl can't name policies and don't even know who their mayor is. Not much of a revolutionary take.
Most people irl agree with Ana. Zoomers don’t seem to get that fact. They’re in an echo chamber.
And yet this online discourse is molding and shaping current politics due to being the hubs of where the activists hang out.
@@Voltroc Are they? Or do internet comments make you think that?
@@LesterBruntonline communities are a loud minority and therefore will have the most visibility. Even if you're an "average person" when your only view of certain groups is whatever is presented to you it shapes how you perceive that group.
This is why u always give room for discussion. The civil rights had alot of debate during that time. I remember looking on the internet and finding just waves of debates in public tv with white and black debating the issue and they got so much good conversation. Sorry alot of movements are not doing that
Yea bro I remember surfing reddit during civil rights too
Never forget, not a single Democrat voted for the Civil Rights Bill. Not one. It's public record.
only Dr. Phil
@@benstrangvideosbruh im weak af i wonder if they did that on purpose 😂.
This feels similar to when that Whatever podcast guy was crying about how people were conflating MLD's endure opinion with his, despite him now speaking much during it.
The overall point is that, if you are on the same side with a group of people who are making crazy statements and maybe even calls to violence, and you sit silently by or, even worse, defend them, then you should be held responsible in skme way for their beliefs.
Exactly, literally the same shit all the fucking lefties tried to throw in Destiny’s face when he invited Nick Fuentes and yet he consistently challenged all his shitty beliefs whereas when they see someone on their side do it they sit and smile
I think “ militant” is better phraseology then “violent”
"Militant" implies a level of organization.
@@the_inquisitive_inquisitor not necessarily
“Militant” you mean like the black panthers? Based
Pisco's reluctance to extend the definition of the word "violence" in a 100 character tweet to anything other than "causing bodily harm to another person" is driving me nuts. Most lawyer brained conversation I've ever seen
maybe I'm dumb but what else could it be extended to? lol.
@@dbgameace yeah when Destiny says 'it's not violence but it certainly not non-violence, there's gotta be another word for it' it just feels like a concession that the tweet could be at least altered
@@dbgameace destiny explained his perspective on it several times in the discussion. Did you watch?
Canceling people, getting them fired from their job, trapping people in rooms could all be described as a "type of violence" or at least as not being non-violent
@@tazerah1993 yeah, I don't buy that. That's not what violence is. People just want to call it violence to make their arguments sound more "morally correct". I don't know why Destiny even tried to argue that can be a form of violence. Destiny himself hates when people use loaded language like that. Like when people call abortion "baby murder" or when they can stealthing "rape". They're just using language to make these acts sound worse than they are He even has term for it, something along the lines of "emotional loading" or similar. People just want to call the LGBT movement violent so it sounds more "immoral" than it actually is. Destiny's take here is pretty hypocritical and just flat out wrong. Being censored on Twitter is not violence or "not non-violence".
@@dbgameace dude, it's Ana Kasparian saying it, not some psycho conservative lmao. And the topic of the conversation was what Ana meant, not whether Destiny thinks it's a perfect word to describe her meaning.
The word violence is also not nearly as morally loaded in this scenario as the comparisons you used.
So aggravating arguing with sombody who just wants to proove you wrong on every point.
"This is a hot dog"
"ACTUALLY YOU BOUGHT IT 10 MINS AGO SO FACTUALY ITS ACTUALLY A WARM DOG"
As a man who owns a meat grinder; I'd body PissCO in a sausage (not an innuendo) debate lmao
Sounds like your describing every Destiny debates
I think we need to rebrand the "violence" that Destiny is talking about to something like "Aggressive" or "hostile" or "antagonistic." Something that can explain the harm that saying non-violent doesn't capture, but doesn't imply physical harm like saying violence seems to
I think it's the reverse. 'Non-violent' doesn't just mean the movement happens to not have physically assaulted somone. Non-violence is a political stance that one can take.
I'm a trans woman, but have the (earned) privilege of passing as cis in my day to day. If I were to speak up against the tactics used by some trans people, I now get hated by everyone. I could lose my career because I would get "canceled" by the internet. I live in a conservative area and am saving up money so I can move somewhere where I don't feel like my life would be over if I was outed. There's no winning for me. To speak up about anything trans related paints a target on my back and puts me in a position of having no support or allies anywhere. It will cost me everything I've spent the better part of 2 decades to achieve. I have to live in hiding and I feel helpless to do anything about the insanity surrounding my medical condition.
Mental condition, not medical condition.
Say thanks to the crazy’s for that. No one cared about it untill it was in your face all the time and murders are supported. I feel for you because I know that must be very difficult but when a move gets radicalized it’s hard to get support.
"my life will be over" is always an excuse used by cowards. Pretty sure I'm the only person who will shame you for your cowardice, nobody cares that some Rando Calrissian Trans is too afraid for their personal life to help mold society into a better place for all, so your self-flagellation is truly masturbatory admittance falls of mostly deaf ears, it's just another narcissism trick.
well the crazy trans activists brought up this whole shit show the way it is since if u disagree with the left propaganda you can lose your life
The great majority of people do not care what you do as long as you aren't hurting anyone else or trying to shove your lifestyle in everyone's face constantly.
There's always going to be arseholes anywhere you go, but mostly people are good and chill and wish no harm on one another, in real life.
29:25
"This movement is by and large peaceful..."
The sheer amount of trying to hide behind this idea is staggering. It's the same argument back in 2020 to justify ignoring the violence then, and Pisco wants to use the same brain rot shield now. It doesn't work with anyone not already lost in their own ideological zealotry. The average person sees your violence, rightly condemns you for it, and no amount of "mostly peaceful" is going to scrub that away.
Sweet jesus, at this point I think Pisco would describe anything as "mostly peaceful" or deflect with all the "good" it's accomplished, so long as it protects his tribe from looking bad.
I want a list of violent actions and events that you believe the Trans movement is engaged in then? There must be plenty outside of this barricade event happening in America for you to lable the Trans movement violent.
@@Coryametathere was that multiple homicide for one. Antifa attacked parents at a school board meeting in the name of trans rights for two.
@@erichooper2794 Oh no hold up, I am going to need details. What homicide, we have alot of those? Also when did Antifa become the Trans movement? If there was an attack then provide the school district for us to look up the event then.
@@erichooper2794 aaaaaaaaand no source whatsoever.
also, we are talking about trans activism. not anti-fa. please do try and keep up. I know it's difficult to not just lump all these bad boogeymen you're scared of into one big ball but believe me, these things are not the same.
People jumping in trying to say they want receipts on explicit Trans violence as though I or Destiny make the claim there is a laundry list of incidents.
Destiny says the rhetoric around encouraging violence or dismissing when it happens (recent Trans school shooter as his example) is bad. I say that is bad and trying to down play it (like people such as Pisco have done with BLM riots in 2020) by hiding behind "mostly peaceful" is brain dead and only works on those already predisposed to your side already. Funny enough my argument stands on its own without mentioning Trans specifically becuase that is not the focuse of my point, but hey some of you all have to read in your own issues into this.
It's Coercive. They may not be hitting you in the face that moment but there is an implication that they could at any moment and they would feel completely justified in doing so.
Coercion is a form of force
@@MrGgabber but not a form of "violence" which is why Destiny and Pisco were getting so hung up over it. Pisco was looking at it in a very "Black or White" sort of way while Destiny was seeing the nuance. He did pretty well conveying it too I think where he said it's not Violent but it doesn't feel right to call it non violence either. The word that felt right to me was "Coercive". Like talking to a Mobster. "Pay for protection cuz it would be a shame for something to happen" kind of language/mentality.
@@hijklmnopreaper all perceptions exist in the mind. That's the whole point of a "perception". My perception is based off of what I see and experience and will be different from other people's perceptions. That doesn't invalidate my perception or theirs. Instead it should be used to inform those that it concerns so they can proactively take steps to mitigate the factors creating these perceptions and in turn have a better and healthier public image. I whole heartedly agree with Destiny that if the people inhabiting these spheres were to more actively speak against the extreme elements of their factions/movements there would be far less negative view of them as a whole.
@@hijklmnopreaper ok. Have fun with that.
@@Darkasasin80 its funny how destiny fans act like they are intelligent thoughtful people who have a completely rational and well reasoned view of things, yet the second anyone challenges them they disengage and/or dogpile that person.
clearly, you are cavemen and have been all along, and you just want to 'win' and dunk on people, not actually expand your viewpoint and challenge yourselves with difficult ideas.
have fun with that.
It’s odd that pisco is so terminally online but has not seen the trans community post memes about murdering people who ask them to leave a bathroom
He's seen it. Like most leftists, he feels that lying about it is 100% justified.
" you should take your tweet down"
These ppl....
The word Destiny is looking to describe between violence and nonviolence is “militant”
That's a good point. I really do think if they used this or a word like "Hostility" instead of getting stuck in loops on the word violence I think they could have smoothed out their difference of opinions a bit better. Overall though i think if they openly condemned or disavowed violent, hostile or militant acts like Destiny said their movement wouldn't be under fire like this.
I think instead of "not non-violent" a better phrase is "they use intimidation and the implicit threat of violence"
Based, that’s how civil rights happened
Pisco and Destiny circled the drain so much looking for a word between non-violent and violent when all they were talking was about being provocative/inciteful. Waving a nazi flag isn't inherently violent and the act of waving a flag is exclusively a non-violent action but waving a nazi flag is definitely provocative/inciteful.
Naw, I think a comment above put it best. Non-violent means a movement acts proactively to prevent violence. I just think it’s that simple. For example, in order of increasing violence, you could have “non-violent” “peaceful” “mostly peaceful” (lol) or “violent”
The fact that the response to Anna's tweet was not trans activists are non violent but rather justifying that the civil rights movement also was would just kill Pisco's argument.
"just kill"
is this "violence?"
@18:30 the problem with this line of reasoning is incredibly obvious and I don’t know how Pisco doesn’t see it. The question is not whether or not the trans movement is using non-violent methods to persuade people; the question is are they using violent methods. If there’s a group in which only a small number of them are violent, but those within the group don’t distance themselves from the violent ones or disavow those who commit violence in their name then that is a violent movement. Lefties of all people should understand this argument since it is literally the exact argument they use in regard to police.
"when it is the politics I support then they have to be ticking off the Geneva convention list to qualify as violence."
"When it is my enemies politics, then their slogan counts as terrorism!!"
That what I got out of this discussion lmfao
They spent the whole time not knowing the words "incitement" or "advocating for"
Pisco's right... Ana's tweet was not about the leaders failing to condemn violence. If it was meant to be, she wrote it very poorly.
To me, the reason you can't equate the "trans movement" with the civil rights movement is that the civil rights movement was a just cause. It wasn't built on lies, it didn't seek to force people to adhere anti free speech views and it didn't endanger children. There also IS violence from the "trans movement", including a shooting that killed 6 innocents. You never saw anything like that in the civil rights movement. I never saw an incident where a women was chased down, assaulted and was forced to hide in a classroom for hours. The movement to me is invalid.
It's really frustrating because the 4 blm and LGBT marches I've went to, there were speakers letting everyone know about signs of violence and what to do if you see violence. Sucks the biggest events we saw were because they were violent.
BS
Violence makes it hard to ignore I guess and it gets people viewing and talking
Super disappointed in some of these comments. I think it's obvious there needs to be a separation between "most trans people" and "lgbtq activists". The context is Ana's tweet so it should be obvious to any reasonable person that Destiny and Ana are mainly talking about the radical activists because they are the ones leading the movements and calling for inappropriate action. It's not incorrect to say those people are indeed using violent, forceful or aggressive tactics. But that in no way means it's representative of the average trans person. And it doesn't mean the activists are always violent. Just often, more than he's comfortable with.
If you think the radical activists are mostly peaceful you have a very strange definition of peace. To me and most sane people: harassing, bullying, intimidation, doxxing, censoring, deplatforming, getting people fired etc. IS an act of aggression / violence. And it's not supported by the population at large because in 99% of cases it's seen as unjust and needless targeting of innocent individuals who didn't do anything illegal or wrong.
So yes, actually, you guys are on the wrong side of history and at some point you will need to realize it to reverse course and save the left lol. Or don't realize it and be doomed to absolute failure.
@@hijklmnopreaper these people put a great deal of effort to make it seem they aren't getting 100% of their opinion on the political climate from the most terminally online actors
@@hijklmnopreaper This is a tale as old as time. "The nazis I know aren't bad people". This is always anecdotal on both sides, no matter how many examples we bring up of clear violence and intimidation for political aims (aka terrorism) you can dismiss it as being an isolated incident, a fake leftist, a fed, not a real trans or not real communism. It's never representative of anything unless it's your personal anecdote about how this maga hat wearing vampire came out of nowhere and jumped on a muslim girl in a bus.
You may think both examples are the same but one is using 1 made up hatecrime to paint all trump supporters are evil racists. The other is an observation about clear pattern and tendencies of a movement that people want to pretend isn't real. We witness the toxicity, language, manipulation and intimidation on a daily basis, and the left tries to gaslit everyone into believing nothing is happening. Even though hundreds of trans people are literally admitting in this comment section that they're terrified of the cult and can't speak against it or they'll be attacked. Destiny's intention is obviously not to paint all or most lgbtq people as violent, but to point to some obvious issues the movement has and where it's obviously heading.
You may not like the word violent but whatever you call it it's something that's being done repeatedly and that is making the masses, not just conservatives, despise this movement and everything it stands for. So it is in the lgbt's best interest to actually understand why people are saying the things they are saying. It's not coming from nowhere. So whatever this thing is, it's what people need to acknowlege exists and needs to change. Dismissing it or pretending it's not widespread or representative of the majority doesn't actually change anything. Like that's irrelevant almost. It's there, even if it's 30% of the movement it's too high and a huge liability and ticking time bomb.
My God how desperate are these 2 to get Destiny in a gotcha. It's insane the amount of scenarios they're coming up with for destiny to answer
Destiny's brain blast moment at 1:36:19 and him saying what he thinks Pisco's takes are Pisco then defining what his takes are (including lots of doubles negatives) is genuine unintentional comedy 😂
Something can be aggressive and not violent. Getting a permit to burn books or a cross is aggressive... but not violent.
Pisco needs to pick up more cases he is in way too many TH-cam videos
There is no way pisco is a legitimate lawyer
He's a leftist, very firm one. Can't be objective.
He was accepted into the bar but he’s still pretty new. But being good at law doesn’t mean you have good political opinions
How is he not? He finds a conclusion he likes and works backwards from there. Like all lawyers.
He needs to speak with Robert Barnes for a while.
No no, I think it makes perfect sense that he's a lawyer. Lawyers are not supposed to agree with points the other party makes during trials, right? You will never see a lawyer go "damn, you got my client good" during a trial.They are not paid to be honest, they are there to argue for their client only bringing up facts that help them and ignoring or tearing down the facts the opposition brings up.
Violent -> Supporting of Violence -> Neutral To Violence -> Disapproving of Violence -> Non-Violent.
Violent -> Pro Violence -> Agnostic to Violence -> Anti-Violence -> Non-Violent.
Its entirely easy to build or describe a scale for this.
And when you do, and try and place things on it, a lot of things don't look very good.
There’s a huge, huge difference between “being nonviolent” and “using nonviolence”. It’s one thing to simply not be violent because you don’t want to get arrested, and refusing to be violent even when you’re being beaten by your enemy. The civil rights movement had a moral commitment to non-violence-the trans rights movement views it at best as a PR strategy, and it’s not even particularly committed to that. MLK told his followers to love their enemies. Is there a single trans activist in America who makes statements like that who isn’t actively repudiated as a terf apologist by the trans movement as a whole?
I live in a red state. Over 30 years ago a trans man worked at the coal mine. You know what people did? They referred to her as a him. We thought it was weird, but ultimately nobody cared. Today, from both Democrats and Republicans, it's no longer acceptance or indifference it's concern and in some cases hatred. Activists have made trans people a political football. So y'all are going to get kicked a whole lot.
I think if Destiny used “aggression” instead of “violence” i would agree with him 100%. But when people hear violence they equate it to physical violence and i disagree that most ppl interpret “violence” the way destiny says they do. The Civil rights movement was NOT as aggressive as the current Trans movement. The BLM riots were aggressive AND violent - physically, socially, verbally…
Calling for people to be deplatformed, saying with need to take up arms for the trans genocide how is this not violent?
More agressive than the civil rights movement lol BLM more violent than civil rights movement too?
The riots were, the protests were not. Less than 6% of the protests devolved into riots and of those there was a significant number that were not riots BY blm but by provocateur and false flag interloper and racists. But yeah all riots are violent to a degree.
Well let's see, there are the trans that equate misgendering them as an act violence. Even if it's not intended.
@@davidlivermore6431 those are the stupid sensitive ppl that are the same ones that cry about how their censorship n aggression toward non supporters or even neutral people isnt “violent”. I definitely see your point, but i think the average non mentally challenged person thinks of “violence” as physical. I think we should speak to the sane people, not those sensitive hypocrite losers on twitter.
They don’t need to answer for what other people do under the guise of their movement… they must CONDEMN it
Destiny, you are arguing against yourself. You said in a video that I saw recently that structural violence isn't violence, and you were saying that violence is violence and that we need to be precise with language.
The reference in Ana's tweet was Riley Gaines who had just been in front of Congress, she pointed out and condemned a single action and gave a comparison. Totally fair take.
I think the issue is, and don't know why destiny's not picking up on this, Anna's talking about political violence, not violence as a legal term for individuals. Political violence is going to be the support of and willingness to carry out violence against the state and civilians to achieve your political goals. When we see individuals willing to carry out violence in the name of their political movement, against their supposed political enemy's, and figureheads of that movement come out in support of those violent actions, it's by definition political violence. By Pisco's definition, I don't know if we could label any political movement throughout history as violent because at least 50% of the people that supported the movement were not carrying out violence on a regular basis.
Okay, give us a list of those political violent actions that the Trans movement is engaging in. Be sure the events or actions happened in America, thanks!
what is violence? is violence blocking a freeway?
I don't know why, but it feels like Pisco's line is met and acting like Mr. Girl when trying to convince Destiny what to do
Early birds squad up
hi
(eagle screech)
yea buddy
Late bird
My head hurts from the lawyer guy implying that the same term of ”non-violence” applies to Ghandi as well as a dude flying the nazi flag.
Would "volatile" be a decent middle ground word for the "violent" vs "non-violent" discussion? If you didnt want to call something violent/non-violent?
The practical reality of any movement is that the optics of violence is extremely bad. If you don't actively disavow violence in your movement it will fester and aggressive incidents will hinder your ability to attract moderate people. In the current paradigm of democracy you have to win over some majority support for passing new policy.
I think this is a phase people go through when they're younger, have less perspective and are more emotionally driven. There's anger at what is perceived injustice in the world, it's very black and white, you're right and your opponents are wrong and need to be defeated. That means you tilt towards the ends justifying the means, misinformation, lies, manipulation and ultimately threats and then real violence. So you ramp up behaviour, but it doesn't work, you get sick of being in the same tired loop and small insular and ineffective communities and you join the rest of the moderates at the table for an "establishment" discussion with your opponents.
That's what a lot of these people like Vaush and Cenk sell, they're stuck in that place being totally ineffective at real change. If you want to grift and make money then you can off the emotions of your audience, becaue what you provide is a sense of someone shares their anger and outrage. But politically it's totally ineffective, I see someone like Ana probably capable of breaking free of that long term, and I think that's kinda where Destiny has the lead in the online political sphere, he has his own political preferences as we all do, but understands the reality is good faith negotiation.
“We ARE Borg”
could have just used the word aggressive instead of violence.
What we're seeing is leftists basically ascribing to the Hasan world view: "Sure it's bad, problematic, toxic and violent, but it's ok when we do it."
I see nothing but apologists trying to justify, minimize or condone violent acts. And people trying to gaslight Destiny and Ana into believing there's no violence happening whatsoever. They are completely unable to admit it's rampant or an issue and use "it's not representative of the movement" as a copout. Like are you saying it's fine if only 40-50% of the movement is engaging in unacceptable terrorist behavior? Because that's a whole lot of people you know. Even if it's not "representative" of the majority, it will still be what people know you for and it will unquestionably have an impact on how many people stop supporting you / how many people despise you.
So I think they're doing it wrong by pretending nothing violent is happening unless 75+% of the movement is violent.
I feel like the word that is in-between the violent and nonviolent is 'hostile' or 'aggressive'. It's approaching the threshold where violence could take place I guess.
No sleep insomnia gang
My ninja
You mean EU friendly upload.
At 50 minutes in, Pisco hits the nail on the head about something that really frustrates me about Destiny. He acts like social movements (trans rights, BLM) are all spun from progressive groups solely and that Bernie et al. are responsible for them, but Pisco's right! These issues are mainstream liberal issues, and in fact, normie libs can be some of the most annoying about them (parroting things like "identifying as a gender is all it takes to be that gender") because they're well-meaning but uninformed. Everything Destiny dislikes about the left is because of progressives and leftists. It's such a silly view.
I think he has that view because he’s watched these views trickle out of leftist communities and into the mainstream over the course of several years.
You’re 100% right that tons of libs parrot these talking points and views now but in say 2016 that was not the case at all. I’d legit argue that these became mainstream lib positions bc the farther left was more than willing to use doxxing, stonewalling, cancellation, and smearing against libs who disagreed with them and not bc they provided sound arguments
Ngl this sounds like cope tbh. I guess it’s possible there’s a oblivious normie liberal just touting super extreme belief because they’re uninformed but it’s much more likely they know exactly what they’re preaching. Normie don’t preach for extreme that’s why they’re normies.
Also destiny’s point about holding people accountable is literally just calling out bad behavior. Not to mention when a political figure shows support for a movement they basically become a part of it and now would have to hold people accountable which was what he was talking about.
@@Shards_of_Winter My whole point is that these attitudes aren't extreme, so yes, I agree that normies don't preach extreme things. I'm saying that these attitudes (pro-BLM, pro-trans rights) are generally held across the board on the left, from center-left to far-left. Blaming progressives for that is stupid as shit. Dunno what the second half of your comment is replying to, never said we shouldn't call people out for bad behavior, but only expecting that from Sam Seder and Briahna Joy Gray is downright stupid.
You know this is good conversation when you go back and forth on which side you are on.
Yeah I agreed with both of them at different times. Destiny went full debate bro a few times which has been rare lately.
"Movements I like are mostly peaceful and the violent ones aren't part of us"
But also
"Movements I don't like are largely violent but the violent ones are the core of the belief.
the difference between this and the civil rights movement is the civil rights movement was from a place of weakness. They did not have the ability to cancel anyone. the trans movement comes with the backing of academia, the federal government (as of now) and every fortune 500 company
There’s a difference between the absence of significant amounts of violence and being against violence. “Non-violence” in the civil rights era meant actively working to prevent your side from doing violence and condemning it when it did happen.
Destiny’s gripe seems mostly that the only reason there is not more violence in the trans-activist community is circumstantial which is different from MLK Jr. and the majority of previous civil rights leaders who ideologically opposed violence as a means to political ends.
@@hijklmnopreaper Maybe I should have made it more clear. MLK Jr., along with the civil rights leaders he worked with were the people I was referring to. There were likely times where nonviolent (in the MLK Jr. sense) activists weren't the majority campaigning for civil rights, but, as you get into the 60's, most influential leaders were on board with MLK Jr. and his methods.
If you want to be cynical, the methods used were chosen because they were more popular with the public at large. (surely not because of Ghandi's success, because it was somewhat limited and India ultimately got independence by fighting in WW2)
If you want my opinion, MLK Jr., while inspired by Ghandi, was extremely Christian. They were nonviolent not by circumstance, but by ideology. They believed that everyone was god's children and that should have a strong bearing on how everyone should be treated.
While it is not the norm throughout history (depending on your definition that would probably be civil war/revolts), it is viewed as the gold standard of civil rights movements by most people (an admittedly high bar to reach).