My wife was possessed. Her exorcism took weeks. It left behind psychological issues, like PTSD and anxiety. We found Dr Bennett (LCMS, Fort Wayne) book Afraid, and the sequel I Am Not Afraid.
The baptismal exorcism should be retained. It helps to avoid syncretism by reminding us that those who remain OF the world remain under the prince of this world. It excitingly reminds us of the terrifying alternative to baptism that we are leaving.
The scripture refers to "Baptism unto Repentance" never Baptism unto Exorcism. Demons are cast out IN THE NAME of Jesus by any believer who carries that name.
🎶Satan, hear this proclamation I am baptized into Christ. Drop your ugly accusation, I am not so soon enticed. Now that to the font I've traveled, All your might has come unraveled. And, against your tyranny, God, my Lord, unites with me!
Excellent thanks Dr Cooper. Nakskow sounds a very wise pastor. You have persuaded me ( a Scottish Baptist) that I need to buy the book and read him. So much is good in your presentation. I'm a retired physician and think you got the relationship between the demonic and mental illness/ distress spot on. Similarly I believe you're correct to call out the ( as CS Lewis would say) chronological snobbery of those who say that gullible Christians of previous centuries simply attributed things to the demonic as they lacked our scientific knowledge. You mentioned Neil Anderson and sounded pretty hesitant. I have made great use of Anderson's materials - especially his 'Steps to Freedom in Christ' in ministry including where has been a demonic element to the situation. I believe his stress on unfogiveness as opening people up to demonic oppression is right. Interestingly, as I listened to you, I was struck by the huge overlap between Anderson's teaching and the Lutheran approaches you described. Anderson sees ministry to the demonically oppressed as essentially a truth encounter rather than a power encounter. Standing in and proclaiming who we are in Christ is central to a stand against the evil one. You sounded hesitant about Anderson's view that ancestral sin could be a source of demonic attack. Your earlier videos cited personal experience & experiences that had been related to you in informing your views on demonic activity in our time. Similarly, re malign ancstral influences, all I can say is that I have seen things in ministry that I can explain in no other way. Of course you can have no idea whether I am a reliable witness. Anderson does give the Biblical ground for his view in his 'Discipleship Counseling.' And - even if you're unpersuaded on this point - you might find other things he says of value. May the Lord richly bless you, your ministry and your family.
Excellent synthesis of Anderson! I was initially hesitant when I found his book, because of so much sensationalism, but my take away as well was this idea of an exorcism being a truth encounter. And the power against devils resting in our identity in Jesus Christ and the power and authority under His name.
My church is Methodist in practice but also Pentecostal (as opposed to a Methodist mainline). And my parents witnessed some demonic possession and exhortations. The first thing my father saw when he was young was a woman who, when they were in church, at a communal lunch, did not want to close her eyes to pray for food, and flatly refused, then the pastor of that congregation knew that it was something demonic, so he told everyone to close their eyes, and began to rebuke. In my church and in general here in Chile, it is believed that first lay brothers who have no preparation should not look demon possessed in the eye, instead pastors should see them and rebuke those demons in the name of Jesus. On that occasion my father told me that the pastor could not exhort the sister, and 2 sisters who saw her in the eye were also possessed, so there were 3 demoniacs. For this reason the entire church began to fast and pray as much as possible, and after almost a week the sisters were able to be exhorted and my father tells me that later they were filled with the holy spirit, and they praised God with thanks. Another time when I was little, my parents were in the church in a watchnight service and a demoniac who was not a member of the church entered, and wanted to hurt the preacher, but he only by pronouncing the name of Jesus provoked that the demon went flying backwards, as if pushed. Unfortunately that time an exhorism was not performed on that person, and instead the pastors of that congregation only removed him from the church, but the devil was not removed from his body.
35 minutes in to this lecture! My current take away is that the exorcism is not about the priest's faith vs. the power of the demonic. It is a proclamation of the objective reality of our promises bestowed to us through Jesus Christ's work and our connection to Him in Holy Baptism. In essence, it is Romans 6. Here is what baptism has done for you, so reckon yourself, receive it through faith...or in other words... repent and believe the Gospel.
But that's not a denial of exorcism as a tool of the ministry in particular. This is simply how the ministry operates in Lutheran/Protestant theology vis-a-vis Roman theology. The power is Christ, and the one given to exercise the office of Christ is the called and ordained minister, so because it's an office and not his own person (but the person and power of Christ) his authority is not rooted in himself but in his message. You'll find identical articulations in Anglicanism and Presbyterianism for the source of the ministerial authority. It's simply par for the course in Protestant theology.
I think if you honestly address Exorcism you have to look at writings and videos of Traditional Catholic Exorcists like Fr. Chad Ripperger. He nails it.
I recall Luther saying he used "the sign of the cross" in exorcism though this was not a practice ordained by Jesus. The Apostles did not recite creeds or pray the Our Father. They simply commanded the demons to leave in the name of Jesus.
Thank you for your work Dr. Cooper! As an idea for a topic in the future: Could you do something on the biblical installation of the ministry? That would be great and helpful while talking with evangelicals
I deeply appreciate you reading from the works of Chemnitz. As I am representative of those who cannot afford his complete works, I endeavored to type out your reading of the exorcistic prayer at an infant's Holy Baptism and explanation. However, I must admit you read it so quickly, that I was unable to transcribe it perfectly. If time allows would you fill in what I missed? (see effort below) "I adjure you unclean spirit, in the Name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit to come out and depart from this Baptized servant of Jesus Christ." - M. Chemnitz Here is an explanation: Dear faithful friends in Christ the Lord according as this dear little child, (or children here) is like other men; conceived and born in sin, and so on account of sin is also captive to eternal death. Nor for this reason, is able to help or deliver himself from such great injury. Therefore it is of utmost necessity, according to the teaching and command of the Lord Jesus Christ, this child shall be born a second time by way of water and the Spirit and so be incorporated into His Redeemer and Savior Jesus Christ. Therefore let us call upon God in His Heaven in his behalf beseeching him here to be Baptizer Himself and richly to impart to this child His Holy Spirit to kindle, strengthen and preserve his heart in steadfast faith and certain confidence in the sole Merit of Jesus Christ. As for retaining this rite, while I see the redundancy of the rite during a child's Baptism, I nevertheless recognize the "mathematical nonsense", a quote from a Sem Prof, that we have the same redundancy with the Lord's Sacraments. Yet, as long as our heart still beats, we should obtain all that our Lord offers in the Sacraments, and all assurances from the Presence and Power of our Lord Christ, which includes this extra promise in Baptismal exorcism. I remember reading about Luther's encounters with the devil, when the Evil Foe would remind him of his sinful nature, to which Luther infuriated the beast by thanking him for reminding him to add those sins to his list of confessions.
Brother, please visit my TH-cam channel. In the information section, I have put the link to a website from where you can download Chemnitz's works, and hundreds of other Christian books, for free.
Brother, may God bless you. I have Chemnitz's books, and many others. I got them for free. If you want to get hundreds of Christian books for free, read the information on my TH-cam channel.
You touched on the idea that the demonic can impersonate the ghosts of deceased loved ones. - Is it the Lutheran (or your view) that all "ghosts" are really demonic? What is the Lutheran (or your) view on ghosts? - I hope you touch on this in the next video. (Perhaps the most famous ghost story may be "Old Jeffrey" from the Wesley's Epworth parsonage.) - Thank you!
Scripture teaches that we all sleep and are at the last day risen to be judged. Those to Christ's right to ever lasting salvation (because of Christ), those on his left to ever lasting condemnation (By rejecting Christ). So, what is left is the demonic. What greater way to deceive than by convincing people their loved ones still roam the earth, or watch us from above. Remember, Scripture teaches that the devil will pose as an angel of light to deceive. Surely he and his minions can do the same mimicking our loved ones.
@@dougkoehlerfamilytimeline287 , actually Scripture is not at all clear that our state after death is a "soul sleep." Jesus says to the thief, "Today you will be with me in Paradise." He tells the story of the rich man and Lazarus who is with Abraham; none of the them seem to be "asleep." St. Paul speaks of departing at death to be with the Lord, that such is "gain," and that it is his desire for it is far better (Phil. 1). He says that to be absent from the body is to be at home with the Lord (2 Cor. 5). Jude speaks of Jesus returning with his saints (or holy ones). The Revelation speaks of those under the altar who are asking the Lord "How long . . ." None of that argues for "ghosts" interacting with the living, but it does argue against the idea that when we die we remain "asleep," even though Jesus does, elsewhere use the figure of speech or analogy of sleep when he speaks of Lazarus (not the one, above) being "asleep." - Further, when the disciples see Jesus walking on the water, they think he is a ghost, and when the resurrected Jesus appears to them, He assures them that He is not a ghost. And there have been Christians with different perspectives. The Wesley's have a very famous "ghost story" from the Epworth rectory; one that they called "old Jeffrey." - Thus, I was asking about the Lutheran perspective. - Unfortunately, Dr. Cooper hasn't addressed this issue. - If your view is an official Lutheran perspective, or a particular Lutheran perspective, please let me know.
@@toddstepp5545 Our body sleeps while our spirit is with the Lord. Scripture teaches that our body and soul separate. So, the thief on the cross’s spirit would be with the Lord, while his body slept. Remember 1 Corinthians 15:35 and following: “Our earthly bodies are planted in the ground when we die, but they will be raised to live forever. 43 Our bodies are buried in brokenness, but they will be raised in glory. They are buried in weakness, but they will be raised in strength. 44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies. What we first notice is where our bodies go (in the dirt) and on the last day what happens to our bodies is also clear. So there is a time that the body rests, but our spirit is with the Lord. 1 Cor 15:52 “in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.” Here we see that nothing changes. The Lord pulls us out of the ground and then all will be changed. But what happens to those who die without Christ. Their soul does not go to heaven. But they are not yet in hell, for the judgement hasn’t happened yet. The rich man is in torment. He seeks relief, but when God separates from us completely, no such relief is possible. There is no second chance. All this is of the LC-MS CONFESSION. But here is a Doug consideration. Heaven is also a stopping point. God has to make the new Heaven and Earth and place us there after the judgement. Think of Eden. But while we are waiting, in the presence of the Lord (soul), do you think God would want them to still experience torment, by allowing them to wander the earth, or look down upon sin, death, and suffering? We are to have a Peace that surpasses all understanding here in earth, but the fall of man makes it difficult for us to cling to. The same would be true if gramps wants to see his grandchildren and watch their lives. Since the Bible tells us sin cannot enter, that is enough for me to know my loved ones soul will not know such sorrow like walking the earth. We do know demons pretend as I wrote earlier. Satan can appear as an angle of light, or aunt Patty and if someone buys into that, they they are rejecting what scripture teaches about death and heaven. “But nothing unclean will ever enter it, nor anyone who does what is detestable or false, but only those who are written in the Lamb's book of life.” Rev 21:27 “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God. He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.” Rev 21 ( notice no mourning or crying). Looking down on loved would make anyone mourn or cry, much like a mother watching her son get sentenced. I am a pastor of 27 years in the LCMS. Hope this helps you.
@@dougkoehlerfamilytimeline287 , this presents your position in a much clearer fashion. In your original reply, you did not give any indication of the spirits of the righteous dead being with the Lord. All you indicated was "we all sleep and are at the last day risen to be judged," and "what is left is the demonic." That implied that you were promoting the concept of "soul sleep," which is why I responded the way that I did. - The question then remained as to whether a Lutheran perspective allowed room for either those spirits that are with the Lord, or the other spirits to possibly interact with living people. - It seems that your answer is "no." However, we do have reference to belief in "ghosts" in the New Testament (as I mentioned, above), and a prohibition in the Old Testament about inquiring of the dead. The "ghosts" are not identified as being demonic, but nothing is really said about them, one way or another. - On the other hand, in Jesus' story about the rich man and Lazarus, it is clear that the rich man cannot communicate with his brothers. However, he asks Abraham to send Lazarus to them. Abraham does not do so, but he doesn't say that he could not do so. - Beyond that, all that we find in this connection is the story of the prophet Samuel being called up. What actually happened in this story has been interpreted in a few different ways, even by the Church Fathers. I mentioned, above, about Old Jeffrey, but Wesley, unfortunately, does not "identify" who or what Old Jeffrey was. He did look at stories of ghosts to be an added "proof" concerning the supernatural or spiritual realm. - I was hoping that Dr. Cooper would address the subject matter in one of his videos, or in response to my post. - I appreciate your presenting the LCMS Confession and your thoughts.
Hello, I just heard this, a year later. Hopefully you get this question. Do LCMS pastors still practice exorcism during baptism, or just some pastors? Or is that not practiced at all in any Lutheran churches? Thanks
Book suggestion, again: War on the Saints by Jessie Penn Lewis… written during the Welsh Revival. Please interact with her take on this subject. Thanx. TK, Elder at Shiloh Free Lutheran Church in the Black Hills of South Dakota
Neil Anderson's THE BONDAGE BREAKER is terrible not only on theological grounds but on psychological grounds as well. I've run an email support group for those suffering from scrupulosity for several decades, and the damage Anderson's take on spiritual OCD has done to Christians over the years is profound. He doesn't seem to understand its physiological basis at all, and simply treats scrupulosity as a spiritual failing.
On your comment on exorcism connected to baptism, it is a "new denomination" - "the last reformation" that preformes exorcism at the baptism. "The last reformation" is a really bad movement, but the exorcisms they preformes looks much the same as those preformed in way out charismatic churches such as TB Joshua and others. But the difference I belive, is that it is not people that's getting payed to let themselves being "exorcised", but something " real". I belive this is about hypnosis, as also others have suggested, but then again I dont know. Could be intersseting to hear your opinion about "the last reformation" and how they preformes exorcism. And also your thoughts on hypnosis connected to exorcism.
Neil T Anderson's book Bondage Breaker caused a lot of havoc in my life in my early 20's. The God he portrays in his book is cruel, a slave driver, and absent. He teaches you to pray pray pray, work, work, work to the point where you decide to just give up. Burn that book, please.
Dear@@DrJordanBCooper. I've been doing much better since leaving the charismatic church and following the Lutheran tradition👍. Thank you for all the teaching videos, it's been a blessing. God bless all your hard work.
On false miracles ,who was it that said all good things are from God and the devil comes only to kill steal and destroy ? Oh now i remember it was Jesus... 🙏🏾💙🙏🏻💙🙏🏽 Pray the Rosary daily and obtain that peace that defies understanding
Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming; that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders, and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, in order that they all may be jusged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness. 2 Thessalonians 2:8-12 And then if anyone says to you, 'Behold, here is the Christ'; or, 'Behold, He is there'; do not believe him; for false Christs and false prophets will arise, and will show signs and wonders, in order to lead astray, if possible, the elect. But take heed; behold, I have told you everything in advance. Mark 13:21-23
An important point in relation to Luther's position on exorcism is that he didn't accept that Roman Catholic exorcisms are valid - and coming myself from Catholicism I completely agree with him. Since Catholicism teaches falsely on salvation, denying that justification is through faith alone etc which means it teaches demonic doctrine, it necessarily follows that exorcisms done by Catholic priests are deceptive and not genuine. This is what Luther said in one of his sermons: Here someone might ask, How does it happen that wicked scoundrels, charlatans, sorcerers, and exorcists often cast out devils? This the devil does, God never. I have personally seen a man who was filled with devils, yet the priest who exorcised him was so sure he was on safe ground that he put his finger into the man's mouth and said, I dare you, bite! How can it be other but that one devil casts out another? St. Paul gives the answer (2 Thess. 2:9) that in the last days the devil will work signs, but they will be false signs. Therefore, the exorcism of the exorcist is false and not like Christ's exorcism. For even though the devil does come out, he does not do it in order to further the gospel but that he might strengthen people in idolatry and lead them away from faith, so that they fall completely from Christ. The devil possessed both of them, the poor man and the exorcist, and it can well be that the poor man was more upright and pious than the exorcist who cast out the devil, even though God admonished the poor man to discipline the flesh. When a devil comes out, he does it in order to aid another devil, to promote error, idolatry, and other abominations in people's hearts. For example, possessed individuals were brought to St. Cyriacus, St. Anstadt, and other saints, for the purpose of casting out a devil. However, the devil did not come out because he was compelled and was forced to retreat, but willingly and gladly, in order thus to strengthen the person's idolatry. Moreover, he has pretended at times to be very fearful of consecrated candles, consecrated salt, water, and other things, while his only interest in such pretense was to strengthen people in their superstition, so that there might be less likelihood of their coming to true faith and trust in God's Word and grace. Accordingly, these signs were, as Paul calls them, mendacia signa, "fictitious, lying wonders and signs," and pretense. In order, therefore, really to distinguish the genuine and true signs from the false, lying wonders, as when Christ and his apostles cast out devils by means of the Word, we must look at the devil's ultimate intent for exorcising himself and for positioning himself to do this sort of thing. Where the exorcism is a truly serious matter, that the devil should come out in order to verify the divine Word, to the glory and strengthening of Christian faith, he will then balk and resist being cast out. It's the same with the pope and the fanatics, and their conjuring with the cross, consecrated water, salt, and other things; the devil in fact remains unexorcised there; he does not yield unless he does it voluntarily. He indeed cannot tolerate God's Word being attested to, truth being comprehended, and Christian faith being strengthened. But when it's to his own advantage to come out, in order to promote his lies, so that the ungrateful world which refuses to call upon Christ can be persuaded to intercede with the saints and fall deeper into superstition, he then may allow a wicked rascal to be exorcised. Thus he can make the blind again to see, the deaf again to hear, the lame again to become whole. For this is not happening for the glory of Christ and his gospel, in order to confirm the truth but in order to confirm his lies, that people might place their trust in monkery, intercession of the saints, pilgrimages, vigils, masses, and the like as being holy things. For this reason he is so favorably disposed toward them. In short, the devil is never at loggerheads with himself; for if his lying charade is to continue, he is very ready to let himself be exorcised. But it is a deception played out under cover in order to deceive and seduce the world. When, however, exorcism progresses to the point where the finger of God is manifested and the kingdom of heaven draws near, there he resists as long as he can, as Christ states in the parable about the strong man who was fully armed. (pp. 342,343, Vol. V, The Complete Sermons of Martin Luther, Baker Book House, 2000)
@@Mygoalwogel The ultimate aim of the Devil and his demons is to lead people away from the truth so that they can't be saved, and if they can achieve this through deception by voluntarily ceasing to physically possess people then their kingdom remains undivided. If people are misled into thinking that a possessed person has been exorcised through the Holy Spirit when in fact the Holy Spirit has had nothing to do with it, then demons can trick people into believing false doctrines to their own damnation. A Roman Catholic exorcist who is seemingly successful in exorcising people of demons will confirm in the eyes of some that Roman Catholicism is true and that the Catholic church is the true Church. PS, I should add that when Christ said that Satan can't drive out Satan (Matt 12:22-29) He was of course referring to the forceful ejection of demons by Satan and not to a cooperative effort in order to deceive.
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My wife was possessed. Her exorcism took weeks. It left behind psychological issues, like PTSD and anxiety. We found Dr Bennett (LCMS, Fort Wayne) book Afraid, and the sequel I Am Not Afraid.
I was recommended this by other Lutherans in a Facebook group. I hope to read it within the year
I am familiar Dr Bennett. I am also involved in this field.
The baptismal exorcism should be retained. It helps to avoid syncretism by reminding us that those who remain OF the world remain under the prince of this world. It excitingly reminds us of the terrifying alternative to baptism that we are leaving.
The scripture refers to "Baptism unto Repentance" never Baptism unto Exorcism. Demons are cast out IN THE NAME of Jesus by any believer who carries that name.
Just got to watch, thank you. I've been waiting for this. God's peace be with you
🎶Satan, hear this proclamation
I am baptized into Christ.
Drop your ugly accusation,
I am not so soon enticed.
Now that to the font I've traveled,
All your might has come unraveled.
And, against your tyranny,
God, my Lord, unites with me!
Where is it from?
@@pmDebata th-cam.com/video/t5V8LTawhpw/w-d-xo.html Hope you like it.
@pmDebata Hymn, God's own child, I gladly say it.
Excellent thanks Dr Cooper.
Nakskow sounds a very wise pastor. You have persuaded me ( a Scottish Baptist) that I need to buy the book and read him.
So much is good in your presentation. I'm a retired physician and think you got the relationship between the demonic and mental illness/ distress spot on.
Similarly I believe you're correct to call out the ( as CS Lewis would say) chronological snobbery of those who say that gullible Christians of previous centuries simply attributed things to the demonic as they lacked our scientific knowledge.
You mentioned Neil Anderson and sounded pretty hesitant. I have made great use of Anderson's materials - especially his 'Steps to Freedom in Christ' in ministry including where has been a demonic element to the situation. I believe his stress on unfogiveness as opening people up to demonic oppression is right. Interestingly, as I listened to you, I was struck by the huge overlap between Anderson's teaching and the Lutheran approaches you described. Anderson sees ministry to the demonically oppressed as essentially a truth encounter rather than a power encounter. Standing in and proclaiming who we are in Christ is central to a stand against the evil one.
You sounded hesitant about Anderson's view that ancestral sin could be a source of demonic attack. Your earlier videos cited personal experience & experiences that had been related to you in informing your views on demonic activity in our time. Similarly, re malign ancstral influences, all I can say is that I have seen things in ministry that I can explain in no other way. Of course you can have no idea whether I am a reliable witness. Anderson does give the Biblical ground for his view in his 'Discipleship Counseling.' And - even if you're unpersuaded on this point - you might find other things he says of value.
May the Lord richly bless you, your ministry and your family.
Excellent synthesis of Anderson! I was initially hesitant when I found his book, because of so much sensationalism, but my take away as well was this idea of an exorcism being a truth encounter. And the power against devils resting in our identity in Jesus Christ and the power and authority under His name.
My church is Methodist in practice but also Pentecostal (as opposed to a Methodist mainline).
And my parents witnessed some demonic possession and exhortations.
The first thing my father saw when he was young was a woman who, when they were in church, at a communal lunch, did not want to close her eyes to pray for food, and flatly refused, then the pastor of that congregation knew that it was something demonic, so he told everyone to close their eyes, and began to rebuke.
In my church and in general here in Chile, it is believed that first lay brothers who have no preparation should not look demon possessed in the eye, instead pastors should see them and rebuke those demons in the name of Jesus.
On that occasion my father told me that the pastor could not exhort the sister, and 2 sisters who saw her in the eye were also possessed, so there were 3 demoniacs. For this reason the entire church began to fast and pray as much as possible, and after almost a week the sisters were able to be exhorted and my father tells me that later they were filled with the holy spirit, and they praised God with thanks.
Another time when I was little, my parents were in the church in a watchnight service and a demoniac who was not a member of the church entered, and wanted to hurt the preacher, but he only by pronouncing the name of Jesus provoked that the demon went flying backwards, as if pushed. Unfortunately that time an exhorism was not performed on that person, and instead the pastors of that congregation only removed him from the church, but the devil was not removed from his body.
As a good ole Minnesota boy you know I’m a Lutheran. As a life long Lutheran I always wondered how demons and exorcisms worked
35 minutes in to this lecture! My current take away is that the exorcism is not about the priest's faith vs. the power of the demonic. It is a proclamation of the objective reality of our promises bestowed to us through Jesus Christ's work and our connection to Him in Holy Baptism. In essence, it is Romans 6. Here is what baptism has done for you, so reckon yourself, receive it through faith...or in other words... repent and believe the Gospel.
But that's not a denial of exorcism as a tool of the ministry in particular. This is simply how the ministry operates in Lutheran/Protestant theology vis-a-vis Roman theology.
The power is Christ, and the one given to exercise the office of Christ is the called and ordained minister, so because it's an office and not his own person (but the person and power of Christ) his authority is not rooted in himself but in his message.
You'll find identical articulations in Anglicanism and Presbyterianism for the source of the ministerial authority. It's simply par for the course in Protestant theology.
I think if you honestly address Exorcism you have to look at writings and videos of Traditional Catholic Exorcists like Fr. Chad Ripperger. He nails it.
Yes, but I wonder, since they appeal so much to the church (as the one true catholic church) would it be good for protestant presbiters?
Yay so excited for this one!
Been waiting for this one all last week!
Schmucker got the Lutheran Church of his day into a real jam.
I recall Luther saying he used "the sign of the cross" in exorcism though this was not a practice ordained by Jesus. The Apostles did not recite creeds or pray the Our Father. They simply commanded the demons to leave in the name of Jesus.
They were the real McCoy,
No holy water, no rosaries, no written down prayers, no crucifixes.
Just the mighty NAME of Jesus.
But isn't the our father pray in the Bible thou?
And he said unto them, This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting. Mark 9:29
Very interesting to learn the Lutheran perspective on demons, possession & exorcism. Thank you.
no offense but aint no one coming to a lutheran for an exorcism lol
“It’s all a hot mess…” Best description yet of S.S. Schmucker.😄
Sounds schlieirmy like a schlug
Thank you for your work Dr. Cooper!
As an idea for a topic in the future: Could you do something on the biblical installation of the ministry? That would be great and helpful while talking with evangelicals
I deeply appreciate you reading from the works of Chemnitz. As I am representative of those who cannot afford his complete works, I endeavored to type out your reading of the exorcistic prayer at an infant's Holy Baptism and explanation. However, I must admit you read it so quickly, that I was unable to transcribe it perfectly. If time allows would you fill in what I missed? (see effort below)
"I adjure you unclean spirit, in the Name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit to come out and depart from this Baptized servant of Jesus Christ." - M. Chemnitz
Here is an explanation:
Dear faithful friends in Christ the Lord according as this dear little child, (or children here) is like other men; conceived and born in sin, and so on account of sin is also captive to eternal death. Nor for this reason, is able to help or deliver himself from such great injury. Therefore it is of utmost necessity, according to the teaching and command of the Lord Jesus Christ, this child shall be born a second time by way of water and the Spirit and so be incorporated into His Redeemer and Savior Jesus Christ. Therefore let us call upon God in His Heaven in his behalf beseeching him here to be Baptizer Himself and richly to impart to this child His Holy Spirit to kindle, strengthen and preserve his heart in steadfast faith and certain confidence in the sole Merit of Jesus Christ.
As for retaining this rite, while I see the redundancy of the rite during a child's Baptism, I nevertheless recognize the "mathematical nonsense", a quote from a Sem Prof, that we have the same redundancy with the Lord's Sacraments. Yet, as long as our heart still beats, we should obtain all that our Lord offers in the Sacraments, and all assurances from the Presence and Power of our Lord Christ, which includes this extra promise in Baptismal exorcism.
I remember reading about Luther's encounters with the devil, when the Evil Foe would remind him of his sinful nature, to which Luther infuriated the beast by thanking him for reminding him to add those sins to his list of confessions.
Thanks for doing that!
Brother, please visit my TH-cam channel. In the information section, I have put the link to a website from where you can download Chemnitz's works, and hundreds of other Christian books, for free.
Brother, may God bless you. I have Chemnitz's books, and many others. I got them for free. If you want to get hundreds of Christian books for free, read the information on my TH-cam channel.
You touched on the idea that the demonic can impersonate the ghosts of deceased loved ones. - Is it the Lutheran (or your view) that all "ghosts" are really demonic? What is the Lutheran (or your) view on ghosts? - I hope you touch on this in the next video. (Perhaps the most famous ghost story may be "Old Jeffrey" from the Wesley's Epworth parsonage.) - Thank you!
Wrong reply
Sorry
Scripture teaches that we all sleep and are at the last day risen to be judged. Those to Christ's right to ever lasting salvation (because of Christ), those on his left to ever lasting condemnation (By rejecting Christ). So, what is left is the demonic. What greater way to deceive than by convincing people their loved ones still roam the earth, or watch us from above. Remember, Scripture teaches that the devil will pose as an angel of light to deceive. Surely he and his minions can do the same mimicking our loved ones.
@@dougkoehlerfamilytimeline287 , actually Scripture is not at all clear that our state after death is a "soul sleep." Jesus says to the thief, "Today you will be with me in Paradise." He tells the story of the rich man and Lazarus who is with Abraham; none of the them seem to be "asleep." St. Paul speaks of departing at death to be with the Lord, that such is "gain," and that it is his desire for it is far better (Phil. 1). He says that to be absent from the body is to be at home with the Lord (2 Cor. 5). Jude speaks of Jesus returning with his saints (or holy ones). The Revelation speaks of those under the altar who are asking the Lord "How long . . ."
None of that argues for "ghosts" interacting with the living, but it does argue against the idea that when we die we remain "asleep," even though Jesus does, elsewhere use the figure of speech or analogy of sleep when he speaks of Lazarus (not the one, above) being "asleep." -
Further, when the disciples see Jesus walking on the water, they think he is a ghost, and when the resurrected Jesus appears to them, He assures them that He is not a ghost. And there have been Christians with different perspectives. The Wesley's have a very famous "ghost story" from the Epworth rectory; one that they called "old Jeffrey." - Thus, I was asking about the Lutheran perspective. - Unfortunately, Dr. Cooper hasn't addressed this issue. - If your view is an official Lutheran perspective, or a particular Lutheran perspective, please let me know.
@@toddstepp5545 Our body sleeps while our spirit is with the Lord. Scripture teaches that our body and soul separate. So, the thief on the cross’s spirit would be with the Lord, while his body slept. Remember 1 Corinthians 15:35 and following: “Our earthly bodies are planted in the ground when we die, but they will be raised to live forever. 43 Our bodies are buried in brokenness, but they will be raised in glory. They are buried in weakness, but they will be raised in strength. 44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.
What we first notice is where our bodies go (in the dirt) and on the last day what happens to our bodies is also clear. So there is a time that the body rests, but our spirit is with the Lord.
1 Cor 15:52 “in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.” Here we see that nothing changes. The Lord pulls us out of the ground and then all will be changed.
But what happens to those who die without Christ. Their soul does not go to heaven. But they are not yet in hell, for the judgement hasn’t happened yet. The rich man is in torment. He seeks relief, but when God separates from us completely, no such relief is possible. There is no second chance.
All this is of the LC-MS CONFESSION.
But here is a Doug consideration. Heaven is also a stopping point. God has to make the new Heaven and Earth and place us there after the judgement. Think of Eden. But while we are waiting, in the presence of the Lord (soul), do you think God would want them to still experience torment, by allowing them to wander the earth, or look down upon sin, death, and suffering? We are to have a Peace that surpasses all understanding here in earth, but the fall of man makes it difficult for us to cling to. The same would be true if gramps wants to see his grandchildren and watch their lives. Since the Bible tells us sin cannot enter, that is enough for me to know my loved ones soul will not know such sorrow like walking the earth.
We do know demons pretend as I wrote earlier. Satan can appear as an angle of light, or aunt Patty and if someone buys into that, they they are rejecting what scripture teaches about death and heaven.
“But nothing unclean will ever enter it, nor anyone who does what is detestable or false, but only those who are written in the Lamb's book of life.” Rev 21:27
“Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God. He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.” Rev 21 ( notice no mourning or crying). Looking down on loved would make anyone mourn or cry, much like a mother watching her son get sentenced.
I am a pastor of 27 years in the LCMS.
Hope this helps you.
@@dougkoehlerfamilytimeline287 , this presents your position in a much clearer fashion. In your original reply, you did not give any indication of the spirits of the righteous dead being with the Lord. All you indicated was "we all sleep and are at the last day risen to be judged," and "what is left is the demonic." That implied that you were promoting the concept of "soul sleep," which is why I responded the way that I did. - The question then remained as to whether a Lutheran perspective allowed room for either those spirits that are with the Lord, or the other spirits to possibly interact with living people. - It seems that your answer is "no."
However, we do have reference to belief in "ghosts" in the New Testament (as I mentioned, above), and a prohibition in the Old Testament about inquiring of the dead. The "ghosts" are not identified as being demonic, but nothing is really said about them, one way or another. - On the other hand, in Jesus' story about the rich man and Lazarus, it is clear that the rich man cannot communicate with his brothers. However, he asks Abraham to send Lazarus to them. Abraham does not do so, but he doesn't say that he could not do so. - Beyond that, all that we find in this connection is the story of the prophet Samuel being called up. What actually happened in this story has been interpreted in a few different ways, even by the Church Fathers.
I mentioned, above, about Old Jeffrey, but Wesley, unfortunately, does not "identify" who or what Old Jeffrey was. He did look at stories of ghosts to be an added "proof" concerning the supernatural or spiritual realm. - I was hoping that Dr. Cooper would address the subject matter in one of his videos, or in response to my post. - I appreciate your presenting the LCMS Confession and your thoughts.
Hello, I just heard this, a year later. Hopefully you get this question. Do LCMS pastors still practice exorcism during baptism, or just some pastors? Or is that not practiced at all in any Lutheran churches? Thanks
did you continue this, where is next part
Critical information for me right now, thank you!!
Book suggestion, again: War on the Saints by Jessie Penn Lewis… written during the Welsh Revival. Please interact with her take on this subject. Thanx. TK, Elder at Shiloh Free Lutheran Church in the Black Hills of South Dakota
I'll check it out. Thanks!
Neil Anderson's THE BONDAGE BREAKER is terrible not only on theological grounds but on psychological grounds as well. I've run an email support group for those suffering from scrupulosity for several decades, and the damage Anderson's take on spiritual OCD has done to Christians over the years is profound. He doesn't seem to understand its physiological basis at all, and simply treats scrupulosity as a spiritual failing.
thank you so much... so deep an explanation
Martin luther talked about biblical cosmology. He said the bible is true on cosmol8gy. I am a lutheran and I believe in biblical cosmology.
Martin Luther cast out many demons himself. So deliverance is part of the Lutheran church and encouraged
On your comment on exorcism connected to baptism, it is a "new denomination" - "the last reformation" that preformes exorcism at the baptism. "The last reformation" is a really bad movement, but the exorcisms they preformes looks much the same as those preformed in way out charismatic churches such as TB Joshua and others. But the difference I belive, is that it is not people that's getting payed to let themselves being "exorcised", but something " real". I belive this is about hypnosis, as also others have suggested, but then again I dont know. Could be intersseting to hear your opinion about "the last reformation" and how they preformes exorcism. And also your thoughts on hypnosis connected to exorcism.
I'm afraid the roof will collapse at holy Trinity in St Pete FL. If there's no help. And someone might get hurt
Neil T Anderson's book Bondage Breaker caused a lot of havoc in my life in my early 20's. The God he portrays in his book is cruel, a slave driver, and absent. He teaches you to pray pray pray, work, work, work to the point where you decide to just give up. Burn that book, please.
Sorry to hear that, brother. Unfortunately, that portrayal of God is common in the charismatic movement.
Dear@@DrJordanBCooper. I've been doing much better since leaving the charismatic church and following the Lutheran tradition👍. Thank you for all the teaching videos, it's been a blessing. God bless all your hard work.
This is about demons, but almost nothing about exorcism.
Very helpful!
23:00 So true, the devil is a wuss
Lots of words
that is what happens in a long form theological video
On false miracles ,who was it that said all good things are from God and the devil comes only to kill steal and destroy ? Oh now i remember it was Jesus... 🙏🏾💙🙏🏻💙🙏🏽 Pray the Rosary daily and obtain that peace that defies understanding
Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming; that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders, and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, in order that they all may be jusged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness. 2 Thessalonians 2:8-12
And then if anyone says to you, 'Behold, here is the Christ'; or, 'Behold, He is there'; do not believe him; for false Christs and false prophets will arise, and will show signs and wonders, in order to lead astray, if possible, the elect. But take heed; behold, I have told you everything in advance. Mark 13:21-23
Lutheran protocol to exorcism: Send them to a Catholic priest! lol
An important point in relation to Luther's position on exorcism is that he didn't accept that Roman Catholic exorcisms are valid - and coming myself from Catholicism I completely agree with him. Since Catholicism teaches falsely on salvation, denying that justification is through faith alone etc which means it teaches demonic doctrine, it necessarily follows that exorcisms done by Catholic priests are deceptive and not genuine. This is what Luther said in one of his sermons:
Here someone might ask, How does it happen that wicked scoundrels, charlatans, sorcerers, and exorcists often cast out devils? This the devil does, God never. I have personally seen a man who was filled with devils, yet the priest who exorcised him was so sure he was on safe ground that he put his finger into the man's mouth and said, I dare you, bite! How can it be other but that one devil casts out another? St. Paul gives the answer (2 Thess. 2:9) that in the last days the devil will work signs, but they will be false signs. Therefore, the exorcism of the exorcist is false and not like Christ's exorcism. For even though the devil does come out, he does not do it in order to further the gospel but that he might strengthen people in idolatry and lead them away from faith, so that they fall completely from Christ. The devil possessed both of them, the poor man and the exorcist, and it can well be that the poor man was more upright and pious than the exorcist who cast out the devil, even though God admonished the poor man to discipline the flesh. When a devil comes out, he does it in order to aid another devil, to promote error, idolatry, and other abominations in people's hearts. For example, possessed individuals were brought to St. Cyriacus, St. Anstadt, and other saints, for the purpose of casting out a devil. However, the devil did not come out because he was compelled and was forced to retreat, but willingly and gladly, in order thus to strengthen the person's idolatry. Moreover, he has pretended at times to be very fearful of consecrated candles, consecrated salt, water, and other things, while his only interest in such pretense was to strengthen people in their superstition, so that there might be less likelihood of their coming to true faith and trust in God's Word and grace. Accordingly, these signs were, as Paul calls them, mendacia signa, "fictitious, lying wonders and signs," and pretense.
In order, therefore, really to distinguish the genuine and true signs from the false, lying wonders, as when Christ and his apostles cast out devils by means of the Word, we must look at the devil's ultimate intent for exorcising himself and for positioning himself to do this sort of thing. Where the exorcism is a truly serious matter, that the devil should come out in order to verify the divine Word, to the glory and strengthening of Christian faith, he will then balk and resist being cast out. It's the same with the pope and the fanatics, and their conjuring with the cross, consecrated water, salt, and other things; the devil in fact remains unexorcised there; he does not yield unless he does it voluntarily. He indeed cannot tolerate God's Word being attested to, truth being comprehended, and Christian faith being strengthened.
But when it's to his own advantage to come out, in order to promote his lies, so that the ungrateful world which refuses to call upon Christ can be persuaded to intercede with the saints and fall deeper into superstition, he then may allow a wicked rascal to be exorcised. Thus he can make the blind again to see, the deaf again to hear, the lame again to become whole. For this is not happening for the glory of Christ and his gospel, in order to confirm the truth but in order to confirm his lies, that people might place their trust in monkery, intercession of the saints, pilgrimages, vigils, masses, and the like as being holy things. For this reason he is so favorably disposed toward them. In short, the devil is never at loggerheads with himself; for if his lying charade is to continue, he is very ready to let himself be exorcised. But it is a deception played out under cover in order to deceive and seduce the world. When, however, exorcism progresses to the point where the finger of God is manifested and the kingdom of heaven draws near, there he resists as long as he can, as Christ states in the parable about the strong man who was fully armed.
(pp. 342,343, Vol. V, The Complete Sermons of Martin Luther, Baker Book House, 2000)
That is extremely interesting...
Doesn't Jesus refute that objection? House divided, etc?
@@Mygoalwogel The ultimate aim of the Devil and his demons is to lead people away from the truth so that they can't be saved, and if they can achieve this through deception by voluntarily ceasing to physically possess people then their kingdom remains undivided. If people are misled into thinking that a possessed person has been exorcised through the Holy Spirit when in fact the Holy Spirit has had nothing to do with it, then demons can trick people into believing false doctrines to their own damnation. A Roman Catholic exorcist who is seemingly successful in exorcising people of demons will confirm in the eyes of some that Roman Catholicism is true and that the Catholic church is the true Church.
PS, I should add that when Christ said that Satan can't drive out Satan (Matt 12:22-29) He was of course referring to the forceful ejection of demons by Satan and not to a cooperative effort in order to deceive.
@@Edward-ng8oo Yeah, I can agree on that. Thanks.
James 2:24