Why some Steam Locomotives have Mohawks - Giesl Ejector
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 ส.ค. 2023
- In today's video, we take a look at the Giesl Ejector, a modification that gives steam engines a mohawk
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Ah dude, don't hate me 'cause I'm efficient dude, maybe if you got rid of that "yee-yee" ass funnel you'd get some performance out of your engines, or better yet, maybe British Rail will call yo dog-ass instead of messing with those diesels or electric engines they messing with, *duuuude*
Lol
dead meme. not funny. didn't laugh 😐
I wish you replaced the "duuuude" with the original saying, but we all know that would be risky as people would look at it out of context and immediately try cancelling you.
alive meme. funny. did laugh 🙃
*What!?*
Peter Sam’s Special Funnel.
Hell yeah man!
Literally😅
Peter sams got a Mohawk
Exactly what I was thinking 😂
True
Peter Sam said again and again his new funnel would put ours to shame,went into the tunnel,lost his old funnel,now his famous new funnel's a drain!
Giesl Ejectors are basically anti-deppressants for steam engines. Not all benefit from it, but it makes a big difference for those who do benefit from it.
Oh
Good analogy actually
It would be really interesting to have someone with the modeling software (and probably a few hours of a supercomputer's processing time) to model out and test stuff like this to see what factors made this style of ejector work on some engines better than others.
It failed on some locomotives because it failed to create a better vacuum in the smoke box compared to the standard blast pipe/chimney arrangement on that type of locomotives. This was one of the reasons it failed to give any significant performance improvements on the 9F. As Riddles already knew.
I've been saying for years that seeing a steam locomotive designed from scratch using modern design paradigms and technology would be incredibly interesting when you just consider the invention of computer-aided design and how much we've progressed with materials science (in particular due to the space race) by themselves since the design of the steam locomotive largely stopped being improved upon, although there's far more relevant areas we've made huge advancements in.
@@TheDemocrabits been done……. Shes called Tornado and she has been running around the British mainline since 2009. A 1920s design built with modern technology and engineering principles
@@lukegauci1159 Do you mean modern precision/tolerances, roller bearing rods/boxes? IMO, it wouldn't need much more than that. 🙂
@@lukegauci1159 "A 1920s design" is very obviously not "designed from scratch."
The giesel was another odd piece of railway history, but a very well known one to a small community about a reverends fanfiction.
i never thought i'd hear someone describe the railways series as a "reverends fanfiction," but i can also not disagree with you.
I'm just joking I love the railway series though credit goes to ToT as I used his words in one of his videos. I found it very funny.
@@Jude-72Which one?
As far as i know, the only Australian locomotive fitted with one was NSWGR 3616, which was popular with crews and enthusiasts, and as such survived into preservation
The Victorian Railways modified front-end is a similar, albeit more successful story of redesigning the firebox and chimney arrangement for better flow, the main difference is that the tests were so successful that VR modified most of their locos with it and built every new one from then onwards with it already in.
All East African main line locos were retro fitted with Giesl ejectors
3616 was fitted with it's ejector in 1957 with trials staring in November 1957 and full scale testing in February 1958. 3616 was compared with 3661 and 3675 hauling the same train the through mail between Sydney and Goulburn. Test results showed that 3616 achieved 8% less coal consumption and 5% less water consumption than 3661 and 3675. Superheater and exhaust steam pressure and smokebox gas temperatures together with smokebox vacuum were all higher on 3616. Boiler efficiency rose from 76.3% to 81.6% and thermal efficiency rose from 4.7% to 5.1%. The reason no other engine was fitted was that the decision to proceed with the introduction of diesels had already been made.
Fitted with the ejector 3616 was a very quiet performer making it hard to tell when the engine was working hard. With a train of 5 carriages (244 tons) power outputs between 1710hp and 1830hp were recorded a record for the 36 class. Source: 36 class book by John Thompson.
As far as I know, the only US steam engine fitted with one was a Baltimore and Ohio 2-8-2 but little was improved and it was replaced with a normal stack.
can you do something on smoke deflectors?
i've never understood how they work
Me neither, never really seen the point of them, it’s not like they prevent smoke from blocking visibility
@@mcbenman1793 from my very small understanding, they create a draft effect and that draft raises the smoke
and they make the NYC Niagaras look 200 times better
They work together with an upwards sloping surface at the front of the engine. That pushes air up, the smoke deflectors keep that updraft close to the boiler, where it flows past the smokestack. That then pushes the smoke up and out of the way.
DRG Class 45 for example has a very pronounced ramp at the front.
Very interesting.
I've never seen them outside of some Japanese SLs and never understood the design.
Now that you've explained them I can understand why the Japanese National Railway would have wanted to try them out since all they had was low quality coal.
Though I'm not sure how well it turned out for them in the long run because of language barrierals for that information for me personally. Though I've only seen examples of them on their heavy freight locomotive the D51 class and it wasn't super common on those.
What was more common was for them to fit an extra external blower and to use bunker C oil to make "oil sprayed coal" to boost efficiency
In Austria, almost every other engine had one of these. Especially larger tank engines and mountain engines
Now everyone has that Peter Sam rizz😎
Never knew engines could get haircuts
literally the story of peter sam’s special funnel 💀🤣
🤓
3:23 Sixteen the steelworks engine
He will be rolling cab over wheels down the slag heap
Petersam: so wait i got the equivalent of a mohawk, im one the cool trains now
Sir handle: rubbish why would you be cool woth a hawk on your funnel?
Duncan: And how do you know that the hawk is named Moe?
Our City's Steam locomotive (ČSD Class 464.001) has a Giesl Ejector.
4:11 btw i seen this locomoive display when i was at The Payerbach - Reichenau Station.
The teasing continued until at last the day came when his new funnel arrived. Sir Topham Hatt proudly presented it.
“Well, fuck!”, said Peter Sam.
Peter sam said again and again that his new funnel would put us to shame, he went into a tunnel and lost his old funnel, now his famous new funnel’s a deain
Damn that tophat is looking rather squashed-
If anyone gets this reference I love you
Flying Scott?
@@eshan030 marry me
"Like someone sat on it!" I recall seeing that episode as a child and being confused - it was square, not squashed. Turned out the book described him as receiving a Giesel ejector, and illustrations showed it realistically, while the TV series simply made a square funnel that fit over the model's existing funnel. Thus didn't even match the way characters in the episode itself were describing it.
You'd never guess...
I’d love to see a review of some interesting Australian Steam engines, such as the R class and the Super R class, with its double lempor funnels, SCOA-P wheels and DMU controls fitted, or the AD-60s, the southern Hemispheres largest steam locomotives. That would be really interesting!
Oh deer someone squashed it
A video about the Kylchap Blastpipe Design would be very welcome 😊
Well, I've just asked for Lemaitre blastpipes, so.... I guess we've got it covered!😂❤
Nice to see some Austrian engines in this :) Many engines had Giesls here, especially larger tank engines had them, like the classes 77, 78, and 95 (95.112 is actually in this video's thumbnail). Also the Mountain Railway engines class 999 were at one point all fitted with Giesls, as were the mentioned class 78s.
almost jumped when i saw 83-180
Good old Feistritztal Railway
nice mohawk
Don’t forget Australia. There is one NSWGR loco that has a Geisel ejector, and is in static preservation. C36 number 3616
The New York Central had an engine class named the Mohawks
As soon as I saw the thumbnail I was thinking about Peter Sam’s funnel.
Same! To me, Peter Sam is the only Sudrian engine that wears a Gisel injector funnel with pride and makes it look good!
"Oh dear, someone's squashed it."
never thought of them as mohawks, now I can’t unsee it- thank you ToT
Maybe you can make a video about the design choices of those steam trains in the logging industry that use driving shafts? Would love to know more about them
If you mean the Shay engines, he did th-cam.com/video/8G7mHfIaWjE/w-d-xo.html
Pretty sure he did a video on those already
Have you done an episode on the German spy who was caught in Ireland because he asked when the next train was due for a railway that ceased passenger services?
I've never thought of these as mohawks, but gdi...now I'll never see it any other way.
Indonesian Railway has second batch of E10 rack tank class locomotive fitted with Geisl as well, this second batch Built by Esslingen, Germany and Nippon Sharyo, Japan in 1964-67, and they are popular amongs the Foreign Enthusiast
Giesl Ejector has to be one of the coolest component names I've ever heard.
This is a rather special funnel I gotta say.
Given the history of the Mohawk (Giesl Ejector), it works well for Peter Sam surprisingly. But for his brother Edward Thomas, it sadly wasn't and I have seen TheLOKRailfan's story on Deviantart of the former reverted back to his old standard funnel.
I could sense a story opportunity for either Murdoch or Rebecca testing out the Giesl Ejector funnel and how each would've reacted about this accommodation. Anyone in the fandom write it down!
These engines all felt better than ever before.
this is the fist time i noticed these systems and i have watched 100's of steam videos
Thanks for another great video. Are you thinking of making a video about the Franco - Crosti boiler?
I wonder how well a Giesl injector funnel would do if paired with an engine sporting Caprotti valvegear. Does anyone know of an engine that's tried that?
The main reason they didn't work in the UK was because we had a good source of high quality coal, particularly welsh coal, so the difference in performance wasn't anything like as dramatic as for locod burning lower quality coal. It's also one of the reasons we were slower switching to diesel and electric than many other countries. The mistake was not thinking that the supplies wouldn't last forever and getting left behind.
Another great video, have a comment for the algorithm.
In Australia the New South Wales Government Railways fitted one of their C36 class locos, 3616, with a Giesl ejector chimney and trialled it in service. A considerable reduction in coal and water consumption for the same output was the result, but by the time the jury was in, the decision to dieselise the fleet had been taken, and no further locomotives were so fitted.
now imagine that was on a NYC mohawk
Goodness, someone sat on it!
Luke Ryan will tell you..., that this is a very Special Funnel to the Talylynn Railway indeed!
As far as I know the only loco still fitted with a Giesl ejector in the US is Iowa Interstate 7081. And even then it technically isn’t a Giesl, but it’s similar.
On that Note, Franco-Crosti Locomotives would be a nice Topic too. If you're not familiar, Franco-Crostis didn't have a conventional Funnel and instead, the Smokebox redirected the Flue Gas into a smaller secondary Boiler below, which acted as Economiser to pre-heat the Boiler Feed Water. The Flue Gas then was exhausted on the Side somewhere around the Middle (lenghtwise) of the Main Boiler. IIRC, there is a Franco-Crosti Locomotive preserved operational in Italy.
That's another one BR tried on the 9Fs, but the big problem was that they didn't work well with the tight British loading gauge (especially since the 9Fs were already pushing to the limits).
You need to do the Lemaitre blastpipe. It's a ride!
"Oh dear, somebody's squashed it!"
I was binging tot then this I'm having a good day
I wonder why they only worked on some engines and not others?
No idea honestly. I have a theory that it didn't work on Edward Thomas because the locomotive is too small. even in Austria, where these were fitted to almost every other engine, narrow gauge locomotives almost never had them. I can only think of 2 locos.
With all that being said, could you fit a Mowhawk on a NYC Mowhawk?
Guess we all now know where the story of Peter Sam and his special funnel came from.
Austria locomotive in the thumbnail!! 😍😍😍😍😍😍
True Peter Sam moment
1:18, I find the astehetics of that locomtive intruiging.
“Oh Dear!” Said Edward Thomas “Someone squashed it!”
1:19 almost jumped in the air when a locomotive from my hometown came up
(i hope they're able to revive her and her home rail but its currently not looking good)
in other words, Peter Sam’s Special Funnel.
So that’s where Peter Sams funnel came from
Interesting... I wonder how it would of done on a big boy.... if only we had some flow Simulation software that could give us the information....
I find it interesting some railroad used the modern electric bolt icon for it's company logo and painted it on old steam locomotive faces.
Like on the final train shown in the video, im assuming that's the story behind it?
It's actually a warning symbol for the overhead wires so that you don't get electrocuted when climbing the locomotive if you're under it.
Giesl ejectors make puffing easier than a traditional funnel.
Oh dear, someone's squashed it!
That makes the engine sounds like a human huh, some like a new look, some doesn’t care, some get sick.
Okay, I guess it’s pretty much down to an engine layouts and configurations that determines whether this ejector will be an improvement or not.
Would this work with wood?
What is that railway / engine at 2:50?
for god sake down here in Australia we had A single giesl engine
I can’t imagine Peter Sam getting a Mohawk after losing his old funnel through an icicle
In the books that's what it was. In the television series the new square funnel didn't look at all like the Giesel ejector because the show creators simply made something that fit over the model's conventional funnel.
1986‽ They were still updating steam engines in the 80's?
9F no, 92250 was fitted with tge Giesl ejector around 1959 and retained it until withdrawal. This is on the same page of a certain online encylopedia where you got the picture at the 1:27 mark. Not more then 2cm away from it. So how foes this tally with BR rejecting the idea?
Giesl was mainly an excellent salesman
That's the problem with being an inventor. If your invention isn't perfect, everyone will reject it. However, you can't even tell how good it is unless you make enough money to test it.
That time when Peter Sam got a mohawk.
"Peter Sam liked this video."
so not quite the "up to date" funnel Mr Peter Sam (The Thin Controller) claimed it to be
don't mess with my toot-toot 👍
I really need to look up if any Hungarian locos had Giesls.
Peter Sam 😊
Probably too little, too late, by the 1950s North American railways were well into diesel and steam was gone by 1960.
British railways used these ejectors on a 9F and a Battle of Britain class
But the one on the 9F didn't improve performance significantly.
An engine with a mohawk lolz
It's hard to forget just how cheap coal is/was, any other industry an 8% savings in fuel would be worth a refit like that.
SRI public servers :
So basically, it was too good to be true.
"Magic fuel-saving devices" have existed since the first machines to burn fuel!
Here i thought it was just an exhaust pipe
Call me crazy but I prefer diamond stacks instead of giesel injector funnels.
Ur not crazy, they are cool too
so there's a time where steam locomotive goes on punk phase
Punk train
Would you say it's a...
steampunk?
@@KeijiSuwagood one
That's petersam's funnel 💀
What if a Black 5 & Caledonian 812 had Mohawks?
The phenomenon of back pressure is explained completely wrong. It is not reducing the smokebox vacuum. It is not a matter of air restriction, it is a matter of the steam circuit. The back pressure means, that the cylinders have to work against it. Exhaust is not as freely as it should be.
The exhaust system was a compromise. Make the blast pipe narrower, then you have more inertia in the steam that is exhausted resulting in a better smaokbox vacuum resulting in better combustion, but you have more back pressure on the cylinders, resulting in reduced power output.
With wider blast pipe you have less back pressure but less smokebox vacuum resulting in less draft through the firebed.
The special blast pipe arrangements like Kylchap or Giesl were an attempt to create a good draft but with reduced back pressure, and when they were designed properly, they really helped and increased overall efficiency and power output.
The Giesl ejector was used in combination with flow restrictors in the small tubes. This was possible because of the enhanced draft, with the effect that the steam producing of the boiler was reduced by only a very small amount but due to the enhanced flow in the big tubes this meant greatly enhanced steam temperature of well over 400° C right from the start.
So in combination, the steam engine created a lot more power, because of better steam flow and more energy content of the steam.
13 hours till this is 24 hours or 1 day old
Mohawks
Steampunk
Literally
Am peter sam im running this line
I'd prefer a double chimney for an oil burning steam locomotive.
Giesl tried to save them from diesel…
Run the bit about pressure past me again