Of course 'woke' people would say they don't construct the hierarchies, they merely describe them. Those hierarchies are real and constructed by society (or whatever) - recognising them doesn't create them. And if we're not to be 'woke' how are we supposed to recognise those hierarchies at all? Not do so? Isn't that just an inversion of 'political correctness', one where we just ignore whatever it is we are supposed to? Why is it 'highly problematic' to try to achieve better representation? I say this as a working class white British person. What does anyone expect me to make of folks that do **not** want to take measures to improve representation? What do you make of that white working class view?
When self selecting groups are not representative there are many reasons other than discrimination. Woke only thinks in discrimination terms and not not think deeply enough about complex systems.
@@drphilipdavies Sounds reasonable. But then why does having black skin make one less likely to self-select to be a policeman, say? Do you really think the woke 'only' think in those terms, that they are incapable of tolerating even a miniscule digression? I don't. Yours seems the more absolutist view. 'The Woke' is pejorative anyway, isn't it? Is anyone actually 'woke'? I'm sure most any group of people has outlandish and extreme examples and I certainly don't want to entertain insidious control of thought or speech. But isn't there some better place to be where we can address inequalities and discrimination without being tarnished with 'being woke' and threatening the whole of western civilisation? These aren't illegitimate wishes, are they?
44.00 lazy example as always - an assumption that what you believe is actually the truth. Globe earth and evolution are just ideas, storues, not truth. Believing what you've been told and knowing the truth are very different things. 2020 taught a lot of us a very important lesson - to not blindly believe stuff because it fits what we have been told all our lives. Look where belief in 'science' got us.
I mostly agree. Yes, all scientific* theories/results are inescapably provisional - there’s just no *proof* in science; and refutation is just ‘proof’ to the contrary, so that’s buggered too, pace Popper. 😁 But I differ here. Some nitpicking: “Look where belief in ‘science’ got us.” ‘Science’ didn’t get us there, but rather it was ‘the science’ that did. The distinction here is that ‘science’ is essentially the embodiment of the scientific method whereas ‘the science’ studiously avoids it. And belief should never come into it - that’s to be reserved for religion, and stuff! * Logic and mathematics are exempted since proof is possible here. But, at bottom, both of these disciplines, though extremely useful and great fun, are essentially empty - with regard to the natural world, that is. 😁 We just have to live with this uncertainty. Tsk! 😁
@@drphilipdavies The trouble is that people interview highly educated people who take what they are told which are really ideas and stories which they assume are true and they repeat them back to us. I don’t disagree with most of what was said here today by the interviewee (my daughters are both caught up in this insane view of the world) but it’s the lazy examples ‘of known truth’ that she used that make me annoyed. I’m off out in the sun on my bike. Cheers
Of course 'woke' people would say they don't construct the hierarchies, they merely describe them. Those hierarchies are real and constructed by society (or whatever) - recognising them doesn't create them. And if we're not to be 'woke' how are we supposed to recognise those hierarchies at all? Not do so? Isn't that just an inversion of 'political correctness', one where we just ignore whatever it is we are supposed to?
Why is it 'highly problematic' to try to achieve better representation? I say this as a working class white British person. What does anyone expect me to make of folks that do **not** want to take measures to improve representation? What do you make of that white working class view?
When self selecting groups are not representative there are many reasons other than discrimination. Woke only thinks in discrimination terms and not not think deeply enough about complex systems.
@@drphilipdavies Sounds reasonable. But then why does having black skin make one less likely to self-select to be a policeman, say?
Do you really think the woke 'only' think in those terms, that they are incapable of tolerating even a miniscule digression? I don't. Yours seems the more absolutist view.
'The Woke' is pejorative anyway, isn't it? Is anyone actually 'woke'?
I'm sure most any group of people has outlandish and extreme examples and I certainly don't want to entertain insidious control of thought or speech.
But isn't there some better place to be where we can address inequalities and discrimination without being tarnished with 'being woke' and threatening the whole of western civilisation? These aren't illegitimate wishes, are they?
44.00 lazy example as always - an assumption that what you believe is actually the truth. Globe earth and evolution are just ideas, storues, not truth. Believing what you've been told and knowing the truth are very different things.
2020 taught a lot of us a very important lesson - to not blindly believe stuff because it fits what we have been told all our lives. Look where belief in 'science' got us.
I mostly agree. Yes, all scientific* theories/results are inescapably provisional - there’s just no *proof* in science; and refutation is just ‘proof’ to the contrary, so that’s buggered too, pace Popper. 😁
But I differ here. Some nitpicking: “Look where belief in ‘science’ got us.”
‘Science’ didn’t get us there, but rather it was ‘the science’ that did.
The distinction here is that ‘science’ is essentially the embodiment of the scientific method whereas ‘the science’ studiously avoids it. And belief should never come into it - that’s to be reserved for religion, and stuff!
* Logic and mathematics are exempted since proof is possible here. But, at bottom, both of these disciplines, though extremely useful and great fun, are essentially empty - with regard to the natural world, that is. 😁
We just have to live with this uncertainty. Tsk! 😁
Blind belief in what we're told causes all manner of problems. "Nullius in verba" Take no one's word for it.
@@drphilipdavies The trouble is that people interview highly educated people who take what they are told which are really ideas and stories which they assume are true and they repeat them back to us. I don’t disagree with most of what was said here today by the interviewee (my daughters are both caught up in this insane view of the world) but it’s the lazy examples ‘of known truth’ that she used that make me annoyed. I’m off out in the sun on my bike. Cheers
I agree entirely. In fact I am writing a book on this very topic called Certainty Theory.. It is one of the main problems of society.