As someone who sold the Sazerac portfolio for a brief time in my life, if you think they don’t control who we gave allocations to you are out of touch with the process. They were responsible for all those Wheatley stacks in the market, the massive Fireball, 99, Platinum 7x, & other various economy displays they held the allocations we would receive as a distributor over our heads based on outrageous goals on their economy brands. They will play the same game with any distributor they go through. The favoring of large Retailers over bars, restaurants, & smaller retailers was purely a Sazerac direction as those retailers could stack massive amounts of their product on the floor. Good video overall but out of touch as to how much Sazerac controls things through the distributor to be completely honest. Cheers!
@@davencarter3658 I am filming a follow up piece to this one to tell the RNDC story. Feel free to email me if you want me to consider you perspective. randy@bourbonrealtalk.com
My brother works for a distributor and we've had discussions on this and typically the supplier will allocate X amount of allocated good to the distributor to divide among off premise / on premise accounts meaning retail /bars or rest. From what he told me is sazerac may do exactly what you're saying. They play the same game but have different rules
I don’t have a problem finding Pappy, it’s in several liquor stores in my area. I just can’t afford it because the liquor stores are all asking secondary prices and I refuse to pay $3k for a pappy
I completely understand were your coming from I question the store owner hear in Massachusetts and they say that they have to buy so much stuff that's no one want they have to get $1000 for a rip and #1500 for a 12 year and $2000 for a 15 year ,they all tell me that , and you see those huge displays of that god awful fireball and those are the store that get the best bottles.
This is the usual situation in southern California. It doesn't take a lot of searching to find Pappy or many of the other difficult bottles, but prices run into the thousands. The best way to get a taste from allocated bottles here is to go to a bar. The really high end stuff (i.e. the 15+ Pappy) is expensive in bars too, but a lot of stuff that can't be found at retail for a reasonable price is readily available in bars, often at a price only a little higher than pours of common whisky. For example, the going rate for a 2-ounce pour of Blanton's around here is about $18, but the last time I saw a bottle in a store, it was $200. Usually, standard lower priced whiskies run about $10 to $15, so Blanton's is barely over the price of the common stuff. Normally, a 2-ounce pour from a bottle that legitimately costs $200 would be a lot more than $18 in a bar. It is clear that something screwy is going on in the stores, and the bars are either getting a better deal from distributors or are being more honest about their pricing, at least on the more "common" allocated stuff. The blame, of course, might not rest fully with the stores due to the problem of inducements. Hopefully this change will help to balance things out better, but I doubt there will be any significant improvement until the products of the expansion finally reach their necessary age and come on the market, which will still be a long time. It is also possible, I suppose, that the bourbon fad will run its course and the masses will move on to something else. Maybe in ten years, we will be complaining about the inability to acquire rare and highly allocated rum.
@@heatherharrison264 I live in So Cal too and have had the same experience. I have been fortunate on a couple of occasions to be at a BevMo when they were stocking their case and got some Blanton’s, Weller and EH Taylor at MSRP (none of which are good enough to justify the secondary market prices). It seems like you just have to be at the right place at the right time. Every mom and pop store I’ve been to heavily marks up those bottles.
I doubt it’ll change much of the situation with the allocated bottles, but *hopefully* it would make the regular stuff (Buffalo Trace, Eagle Rare, Weller) available again in markets where it just doesn’t exist on the shelves
@@BourbonRealTalk true but like you said, BT has dramatically increased production. They’re one of the biggest distilleries in the country. Why are their standard offerings considered allocated in states line mine (Alabama)? Do they seriously not have enough juice for the demand vs say Wild Turkey or Jim Beam? I say that it’s on the distributors who hold back the BT products
@@nickentros same. I used to be able to buy BT products on the regular and very cheap (compared to their current prices) before their recent explosion in the last 10yrs or so. Now I can’t find BT anywhere I’ve been in the state of NC at all. On occasion a small amount gets released but it’s pretty hard to get your hands on without going to a neighboring state where they have PLENTY. I’m hopeful this distribution change helps ease that problem significantly.
@@nickentros By my calculation the big increase in production won't hit the market for another 4-5 years. I really do think there just isn't enough and without a time machine there is nothing to be done about it in the short term.
One potential benefit for most of us might be that the bottle flippers will lose some of their old contacts within the outgoing distributors. It will at least take them some time to establish new contacts that they can "induce" to tip them off to delivery dates and times to retailers.
I have worked for both RNDC and SGWS and I am still in the industry, you will not see more on the shelf. Depending on your state things will only get worse because RNDC has managed this portfolio for years and understood how to deal with the brands. Bill Goldring was an owner at RNDC, he controls it all. In Texas, for instance, there will be 11 different distributors so no it will not get better. Some of these are good points and some are off the mark. For someone not in our industry it's pretty good.
I drive for RNDC Indiana...and your exactly right. A random jumble of smaller distributors...many already with ongoing operational struggles...its gonna be a mess!
I am filming a follow up piece to account for information shared by industry insiders. If you would like to correct my "off the mark" points please email me. randy@bourbonrealtalk.com
On the Buffalo Trace tour I took recently, the guy said that THEY even have to buy the bottles in their gift shop from distribution. It goes from the plant to the wholesaler then they have to buy it back for the shop. Ridiculousness.
Jack Daniels has to do the same. Sale to the whole seller then back it back. Plus JD has to get special permission to sell their own juice in a dry county.
This is true. In TX producers can sell up to 2 bottles every 30 days direct to consumers, but the lobby for wholesalers in KY and TN was so powerful that producers in those states have to "sell" to their wholesaler and buy it back to sell it in their gift shop.
Sazerac’s trading a national powerhouse distributor (RNDC) for a patchwork of lesser/smaller operations scattered around the country. Expect a whole lot of distribution issues and frustrations…and watch their annual revenue shrink.
As someone who works and lives in a control state for the ABC I hope our customers get better monthly releases (aka more Elmer, rock hill, weller, etc) it’ll be better for me as a fellow customer and collector and for other business and their customers
As someone who also lives in a state that has a government monopoly on liquor sales (and works in the industry), the BEST thing for ABC states would be to abolish the State monopoly on liquor sales, and deregulate. There are only 13 States that still have this unethical and outdated system, and they need to give it up. There is not a single good reason to have a control state system--they prohibit competition, restrict consumer options, and are massively inconvenient for customers based on hours of operation, selection, and availability. The only REAL solution to such states is to abolish the ABC system nationwide. The only people who like it are people who work for the ABC, and even most of THOSE people are honest enough to admit that there are no real advantages--legally, market-wise, public-health-wise, underage-purchase-control-wise, tax-income-wise, or ethically--to having the State monopolizing the sales of a product that they also regulate...
@@stereodreamer23 the main rebuttal you’ll get from the state is the tax revenue and sales and money they lend to other agencies is a tremendous thing to consider when they bring up abolishing the AL ABC
I did not like this system when I lived in Virginia. Oklahoma is maybe a little better, but the distributors have a lot of power that drives up prices. When I visit a state like Texas the selection and prices are much better, but I'm usually visiting a big city so that may make a difference.
As a retailer the only inducement I was subjected to was for other Sazarac products. For the past two years (Florida) there’s been a “points” system controlled by Sazarac. I was told by my rep that the points model kept getting changed because RNDC kept getting sued - which makes sense if you’re trying to have a single model with all the rule variations of a national distributor. The tier system only protects the big distributors which are nothing more than a logistics company now - take orders and deliver. And if that’s all you do then your margin should reflect that. This is simple, BT is just making their supply chain more vertical.
That’s a big miss, if you don’t think reps are out there hand selling new products or putting up POS or writing menus, go talk to a store owner or bar manager. I’ve seen it first hand with all three suppliers in both segments.
The most interesting thing for me will be to see if Sazerac increases their allocation to the 8 states where they are going to be their own wholesaler compared to the other states. As far as your comment "Buffalo Trace Products sell themselves" is somewhat true, but allocations are a pain in the butt for the Sales Reps and they have to work hard to sell the hundreds of value brands in the Sazerac portfolio. I have worked for a large distributors for over 21 years. In my State, suppliers change distributors all the time. Some suppliers more than others. I have represented all most every supplier at one time or another over those 21 years, some multiple times. This is the first time I have seen Sazerac change Distributors, but it is unlikely you will see any changes at the local retail level especially on Highly Allocated Bourbons. Suppliers control the allocation to the States and Distributors control the allocation to the Retailers. I don't work for RNDC who lost Sazerac. I represent the other half of the Sazerac portfolio along with many other large suppliers to a large chain of package stores.
I would guess, absolutely they will favor those 8 states with allocated products. Sazerac is pushing to be their own wholesaler in as many of these non-franchise states as they possibly can.
"If that person can hate you online even though they don't know you, there's nothing can keeps me from loving online even though I don't really know you." Now that is some real talk.
Louisiana was a split Buffalo Trace portfolio state before this move. SGWS has Pappy, Weller, EH Taylor, Eagle Rare, & Blanton’s. RNDC has the rest, in which, they lost. The SGWS portion is currently staying put.
Great explanation of BT r.e. distribution revamp and layout of the business side of spirits as a whole. 👍 So some the stuff that we whiskey consumers deal with: 1) bundled booze packages, e.g., Weller Full Proof or some other high demand juice packaged with vodka, mixer, “lesser” demand bourbon for the combined SRP that also happens to be at or close to secondary price for the bottle of high demand juice. 2) local bottle shop selling Stagg Jr or some other allocated bottle at or very near secondary. Stagg Jr goes for $200-$250 at one local shop that seems to always get it not too long after release. 3) local bottle shop keeps something like Pappy off-shelf, saved only for someone in great favor by the owner. 4) otherwise honorable bottle shop sells even high demand bottles at or slightly above SRP but for some reason these bottles seem to always vanish before average joes can get them. They have an online shop that include lists like “Coming Soon” and “Newly Arrived” which I’m assuming are monitored by some secondary seller’s algorithm and snapped up almost immediately after being posted. 5) bottle shops pushing entry level well liquor like Jim Beam White Label at far below retail. Not that this is a bad thing but is this part of that “ethical” quandary that retailers are forced into by distributors in order to gain favor? I am certain there are more issues.
The only reason they were being carried by RNDC is because the owner of Sazerac (inherited it) Bill Goldring owned a distributor in many states before inheriting Sazerac..since it is illegal to own both a distributor and a supplier he sold the distributor to RNDC making them one of the largest in the country. Their relationship goes back for 20+ years.
Wow! I didn't know that. I am filming a follow up episode to this one because so much interesting information has been brought to my attention. If you want to give me more details to research on please email me randy@bourbonrealtalk.com
Glad someone is talking about it. My local stores didn't have much positive to say about the changes, because the distributor taking over for them is apparently quite terrible. yay me...
They will have to play nice. This only means the retailer snubbed the rep when they were pushing products the store wasn't interested in. Now the store will have to make nice to get access to the stuff they want.
@@BourbonRealTalk Not true. I personally work for the largest retailer in Texas and will tell you that Freedom (Keg 1) will be distributing in my market and they’re terrible. They show up; drop product and leave. They don’t care about the liquor aspect of their current business at all. No merchandising. Nothing. They will have to do a 180 with how they do business or it’s gonna go to crap even more so than it is now. Only possible bright side is I met a representative from sazerac a couple weeks ago and I believe sazerac will use their own merchandiser which would be a plus. We shall see next month
@@BourbonRealTalk Perfect. That’s fantastic reporting. That’s what I was hoping for knowing the new distributors reputation for not caring much about the spirits side of the business. Thanks for such great research. I’ve come to expect nothing less from you.
Yeah changing distribution won't change "games being played" it's something that occurs. Video seems to just paint RNDC as the reason for games but their product distribution gets no mention of such things
i work for a company in western NY who had their hands in many aspects of manufacturing spaghetti sauce, salsa, alfredo sauce, cooking wines then they tried the alcohol side they had their own brand Recipe 21, we did many others captain Morgan, all the Blue Chair Bay products sake we were a small co packer that did that kind of stuff for like 10 years or so we even were doing White Claw and Crook And Marker products , there were also many other products we made including a lot of the small 50ML bottles any way they are getting out of the alcohol side of the business but i really liked running that type of products when we went to the liquor store and you can see all the products you had a hand in making especially me because i am a filler operator so i had to make sure every bottle that went past me was quality product.
As someone who has worked at Total wine and RNDC for over 10 years. I can certainly tell you Sazerac is in 100% control of all their products. Especially their hard to get items. Everything is micromanaged and I mean everything. Basically Sazerac controls all prices at least in terms of how much it is sold to stores. That is why you can go into Sam's club and Costco and see it sell for so cheap. In terms of allocation that is up to Sazerac and in terms of where it goes when it reaches us that is determined by an account manager and everytime I order Buffalo Trace or Something similar it must be approved which often my request can be refused. As for Pappy and stuff Similar, that stuff usually already has a home before we get. We already know who we are going to offer it to. Places like Costco and liqour stores also usually already know what customers they will offer it too as well. At least that is my experience. As for the changing of distributors, I highly doubt that will affect their bourbon allocation numbers. They stand by quality and not quantity and they also stand by being the lowest-priced and affordable which is why a 10 year Pappy sold at cost to any store is only 110 dollars at least in my market. And in my opinion I believe this whole battle is that Sazerac wants to eventually go Independent and be away from distributors and control their products and pricing which is what they have done in a few states already.
I really appreciate the episode and your closing words. I am a great enjoyer of Bourbon and Rye's and often when I follow so FB pages there is a lot of negativity that I do not get. We are there to share our experiences with this great liquid. I'm retired military and am always down for fun jabs but some of it is just flat out negative. Thank you again.
Excellent breakdown! I was wondering how all that shakes out. Living in DFW area we only have the chain stores for the most part to source our pour from.
Being that I work in the beverage industry here in Washington State. I will say that the issues that Sazerac had with RNDC using certain items to leverage non-Sazerac products were not fixed with Sazerac ultimately switching distributors, going from RNDC to Columbia Distributing. Columbia Distributing is now putting Sazerac items on "Tier'd Allocations" meaning retailers now have to spend "X" to hit tier 1 to unlock 2 bottles of Weller. Spend "Y" to unlock 2 bottles of Pappys. Finally spending "Z" to unlock the opportunity to purchase the BTAC collection. They are not allowing you skip the tier systems. You must unlock all tiers to get the bottles you want, and each tier differs by $20-30k.
@@BourbonRealTalk RNDC here in Washington was also caught holding onto many specific items for their own employees, friends & family, which resulted in certain products never making it out to the marketplace. Sazerac also was forced to switch to Columbia here in Washington, because Reyes Distributing is proposing to buy Columbia and its distribution territories. And for that to all go through, Columbia had to acquire and add certain brands to the portfolio before Reyes cuts the check to buy them out.
1st I’m deeply sorry for the lost of your family member & 2nd I’m appreciative of his service to this nation & 3rd I’m greatful for your channel & the information on your channel so keep up the great work!
Thank you for your kind words and support. I appreciate you taking the time to watch my channel and engage in the whiskey community. Is there a particular topic or bourbon you would like me to cover in a future video?
@@BourbonRealTalk probably a guide for new folks to the bourbon community to help them along their journey to the enjoyment of fine bourbons what to get what not to get caught up in etc basically everything that helped you to get to where you are in your journey.
It would be nice if there was a better spread of allocated bottles especially in ABC states. It’s so ridiculous when you can find shelves packed with BTAC bottles in some states and never even see them in your home state.
@@BourbonRealTalk I have personally seen them in three states; sent a bank customer who was going on vacation near one of those stores- three years later- and they purchased two different bottles at what he said was only 40% or so above MSRP, maybe 50%. The owners policy is posted on the wall 🧱 and hasn't changed since the store opened pre-1900: "What you see is what we have, if you want something else- I'll try my best to find it." It has DIRECT line of sight to a certain Olympic Training Facility, and he and I have both found unimaginable bottles of Whiskey, brandy (including Cognac and Armagnac), old red wines, and rare champagne visible on the shelf, fairly priced. The two other stores/states have essentially the same motto, and those grandsons or great-grandsons honor that intent, nothing hidden under the counter or out back. (Maybe up high behind the counter or glass to prevent snatch-and-grabs) even you ever come to NY let me know. It's a BTAC desert 🏜 except for maybe three or four places in the entire 54,556 square miles!
@@johncormier8194 50% over MSRP for BTAC is $150. Sorry, but I just don't believe that anyplace keeps bottles on the shelf at that price. It would just take one asshole who wanted to make a quick $20k to just buy everything on the shelf. If it's true just name the place rather than being intentionally vague and obtuse. But the reality is that every single retailer faces the same issue, if you sell anywhere near MSRP it will FLY off the shelves faster than you can stock it. Hence every bourbon lover in every state having to deal with the various hoops or insane prices it takes to find them. But please, prove me wrong, I'll take a trip to restock my shelves.
I own a liquor store in Oklahoma. A few years ago we went through massive law changes. All of our distributors used to be privately owned and they all by law were sold equal quantities of all products. Their only way to compete at that time was through service. When the laws changed the largest distributors teamed up with RnDC and SGWS. The smaller distributors suffered greatly because each product was with only one distributor. Sazerac did something interesting here when that happened. Some items are with RNDC, some with SGWS, and some with a smaller distributor Boardwalk (now Armada). SGWS has been good to us and we get Weller and Buffalo Trace. I've even had a few bottles of BTAC. RNDC got Blantons, Eagle Rare, Pappy, and Handy. I have had maybe 12 bottles of Blantons in the last 4 years and none of the others. The third distributor didn't get much that is allocated (only Bowman I believe). With this new change only the products with RNDC are moving to a new distributor. They are going to be distributed by 3 different distributors that are separated into regions. These distributors are primarily beer distributors (Molson/Coors or almost everything that isn't distributed by Bud here). It is going to be interesting to see what this does for us. I don't think it will be bad. Also we have recently begun stocking Prideful Goat! I appreciate that it is being distributed my one of the smaller distributors here were it won't be lost in the sea of giants.
Sazarac has hundreds of low priced liquors in their portfolio. If you think that the pressure to buy these items is going to go away, for store owners and bars/restaurants to stay on Sazerac’s allocated bourbon list when they move their brands to beer companies and their own sales force, you’re kidding yourself.
So when it is non-allocated Sazerac brands, it is called “pressure to buy” but when it’s non-Sazerac brands, it’s called “pushing” by the sales person who represents both? The core function of a supplier is just that, to supply. People are throwing around the terms inducement and tie in sale like there’s an abundance of these bourbons available from Sazerac and somehow they are being hoarded or unfairly distributed. The allocated Bourbons from Sazerac are a very small percentage of their total sales. They put a great amount of pressure on their distributors to push hundreds of low priced brands most people have never even heard of and they hold the distributor accountable (hostage)with their prized bourbon inventory. Imagine Crown Royal was allocated and a Diageo rep says to a customer, sure I will sell you Crown Royal but can you help me out & buy some cases of Ketel One, Captain Morgan and CasaMigos? Doesn’t sound too hard but Is that pressure or pushing?
@@KK-kz4kt from my experience it was “good customers” who got allocations like ER, EHT and Weller, customers who are willing to try out new products or just more frequently bought what was being sold, ie single bottles. In the end, reps work with the same accounts for YEARS sometimes their whole career. Doesn’t seem like pushing stacks of crap liquor is conducive to a successful long term partnership.
Was it a smart move? I don't think so. Here is why. In Texas they will be going from 1 liquor distributor to 10 beer distributors. Talking about a Logistics nightmare. First, the Buffalo Trace distillery doesn't make enough to go around. Second, 50% of their production leaves the country. Third, Buffalo Trace actually was responsible for making certain products allocated. By not making enough to begin with. Fourth, Buffalo Trace was also the one to slot the amounts of products to certain destinations. But those decisions didn't come from the Buffalo Trace Distillery. Those decisions actually came from Sazerac themselves. You see Sazerac makes Fireball, Benchmark, Rich and Rare, Canadian Mist, Canadian Hunter and Taaka too. They don't have any problems mass producing those products. Why is that? Also, RNDC doesn't inflate the prices of those allocated products. RNDC sells Pappy Van Winkle 10 year for $59.85 a bottle Pappy Van Winkle 12 year $67.05 I can keep listing all of them. So when you see the price on those items for $500.00 and up. That is not because of RNDC. That is because of a mom and pop liquor store or because some bar, restaurants or hotels wants to price gouge the consumer.
I bartend in SC. My restaurant was able to get 2 bottles of Blanton's a month last year which we usually poured off in 2 or 3 days. Haven't seen any this year and I haven't seen any BT products at all on the shelves at the handful of stores I visit weekly. I've been trying to find an EH Taylor to open when I graduate college in May...Fingers crossed.
Beautiful. I enjoyed the podcast & hope this news helps a bit where I live in Oklahoma. Also, thanks for letting us know why you are doing this. Cheers!
I live in the bay area California. We easily find BT $23, Eagle Rare $35, E.H. Taylor $80.. at times Weller special res $50.. everything else, non-existent
You have a good hook up there. In LA, same story with buffalo Trace but eagle rare is gone from the shelves at $40 but can be found at $60, EH Taylor's $100 minimum, Weller SR, no less than $100.
Awesome job explaining it. I often go to different states to search for bottles I can’t get at home. Most of what I get comes from small local stores I visit and buy from on a regular basis. Sometimes I can get at retail, but it usually is marked up to a fair price. How can we keep the product from reaching resellers (secondary) instead of drinkers? Since Buffalo Trace products are so hard to find, I’ve been buying other products that are just as good or even better. Can’t wait to see how things shake out over the next 5-10 years. Cheers!
If inventory starts to go to retailers who do not price gouge, they will know who the regular customers are who are drinkers and not flippers. This change could help solve the problem.
As someone who works for RNDC - we were making little to no commission off of these brands compared to others spirits. Also, the allocations for items such as the antique collection and pappy van winkle, was not even hardly in our control as it used to be in previous years. Upper management had to follow strict guidelines when allocating based on revenue in accounts on other Sazerac items that were not Buffalo trace products, per Sazerac requirements.
That's because of the small volume for the allocated products and why there are the problems described in the video. A company having a basis for an allocation program that is at least somewhat fair seems to make sense. You may see it as arbitrary, but volume is a basis whether you draw the circle around BT products only or the products for the company that owns BT and other brands (Sazerac). It would not make sense for Sazerac to base an allocation plan on sales volumes of their competitors.
I appreciate your perspective. Most of my information comes from retail owners. The low commissions on allocated products I think was part of what lead field reps to start using the BT products to sell higher volumes of other products they did make money on.
I drive in Indiana for RNDC and this comment is true. Sazerac was creating an economically unsustainable relationship...although a huge loss, I think RNDC in some ways is glad to be soon rid of them.
One of the things that drives me nuts is my local liquor store that does have some hard to find stuff. Nothing like the BTAC or Pappy, but things that should be kinda reasonable to find. During my hunt for ECBP c922 or b522 I asked if they had gotten any in, and they told me they probably won't get any because the don't move enough product like that. Too many old bottles on the shelves. I looked at what they had. Many bottles of A121, b520 etc...all priced at $120+. They payed less than MSRP. My guess is $35 or less. Your markup is 200% on OLD news dusty shelf product. ??????? Do you not understand economics 101? They won't hear of making an offer either. I have no problem giving my local brick and morter store a profit, as I want them to stay in business. They do pretty well as they never really have no one coming in for something. Liquor is a good business as far as I can tell, as they have been there a looooong time. Pretty hard to strike a relationship with an owner that is always trying to screw you on price. Total wine, Bevmo sometimes have them and don't price gouge. These small, brick and morter liquor stores are sometimes their own worst enemies. Probably equal to the wholesalers you speak of.
Exactly. My little local store around the corner does this and as a result I never buy from them anymore. I would buy normal product at higher prices to help establish a relationship, but they wouldn’t budge on insane prices on harder to find product. I just got tired of the one sided deal and as such, I buy from big retailers.
@@msa4998 same here, I was just in a local store in LA and they have a great selection but their prices are about $20 higher than the chain stores. I pointed that out to the owner and he said he does that to compete with them. Not with my help you won't! If they instead kept the same price or even undercut they would move more quantities off the shelves. I don't get it.
They have a supply issue. Their bottom shelf stuff (BT and WSR) is 6 years old. There is a big lag between a ramp up in production and a ramp up in supply.
Love your positive ending & reflection on the current situation. I just got into buffalo trace products so I’m hoping this leads to better times for us people who truly want to experience the juice rather than profiting on it
Great video. Great info. Thank you so much. (kind edit tip: dont stay in that 2 shot so long. Better off just using 2nd camera for a straight on close up with you want to cut to another perspective 🙌).
Wes used the second angle to hide my screw ups. We sometimes use the front camera and punch in. This video was hard to edit because it was so technical and I was reading a lot of the script and making a lot of mistakes.
Old news but good so far. They have also cracked down on distributors giving to their friends and family that also own retail outlets. Got one Pappy last year because the stores I frequent that should have received them never did. Several this year!
@@BourbonRealTalk Thanks. I really hope this along with the reported supply increase makes more of these available to everyone. I also have to visit other states to find prideful goat releases so let’s hope you give some love to Michigan as well. :)
Just entered a drawing at a local owned store for a bottle of Pappy. Owner was talking about how she had to move so many bottle of variety X to get 1 bottle of variety Y. I walked out $160 lighter and happy with what I bought.
That's exactly how it goes across the nation. One of my local liquor store owners here in LA recently told me he has to buy many cases of junk vodka just to get allocated whiskey
Found this editorial enlightening and entertaining ... Looking forward to new postings ... Apologies, but I won't be seeing your FB content, as I left that behind some years back ( my choice ) without regret. Thanks very much for the share, and, Happy New Year!
I had a liquor store in Houston and the inducement with RNDC is real. They used that big time and it made it hard for me to receive any allocated liquors. You had to buy some non buffalo trace products in order to get one bottle of eagle rare or blantons.
Think about it tho. When supply is EXTREMELY limited because of the producer. There is only so much product to go around. You’ve gotta be selective and support the retailers that support you. And the Sazerac portfolio is HUGE those bourbons are the most sought after, but definitely not the most important brands in that book.
@@morrellmade They're pushing garbage though on store owners and they know it though. That's sleazy. I just had a local store owner in Los Angeles tell me he has to buy many cases of garbage vodka they're pushing just to get allocated whiskey. That's like extortion.
I'm a big Buffalo Trace fan and live about an hour from the distillery in Kentucky. I go to the distillery about every 90 days to buy a few bottles, and get really upset when I go to a local store and either can't find any product or find it and they have marked it very high. I can get Buffalo Trace at the distillery for about $27, but a local retailer marks it up to $40. Weller Reserve, I can get for about $30-$32 at the distillery, but it may cost $60-$80 retail. Eagle Rare, same thing, if you can find it, it's closer to $90 retail. MSRP has a profit already built into it if we see a retailer marking bottles up many times the MSRP, we should tell the owner that they will no longer get our business because of this practice.
I am sure your store had to put up with inducements to get the bottles, but once they have them they decide if they are going to try to make all their profit on the 3 bottles or are they going to use the 3 bottles to encourage customer behavior that helps the stores long term goals. Just because the did a lot to get the bottles does not justify that big of a price hike.
I can assure those bottles are that much because there’s just not that many, I can tell there definitely isn’t enough for every store to get one let alone 3 for every store.
I have a question. My local liquor store is selling 12 year Weller for a certain price (above MSRP mind you) but to get it, you have to buy like a case of vodka spritzers or something. Is this an inducement and is this illegal?
It is not. Inducement laws are to protect retailer's from larger wholesalers and producers since a retailer has only one option of who to buy a brand from. Consumers can go to another liquor store to buy W12 that isn't selling it in a bundle, so this is not considered an inducement. I will say I would not shop at a store that is both price gouging AND selling in bundles.
The store is usually allowed to bundle without it being considered and inducement since you as a consumer do not have to buy from that one store. From the store's perspective they can only buy ER from one wholesaler, which is why inducement laws exist between the wholesaler and retailer.
the only way we'll see those bourbons on the shelf again is when/IF supply catches up to demand. it could be several more years until that happens. The major producers have only recently begun significant capacity expansions, and depending on when those are up and running, you still basically have to add 10-17 years on top of that before we start seeing the highly allocated stuff turning up at retail stores and that's assuming these producers are even ramping up their production of those highly allocated items.
This isn't going to help with availability of allocated goods whatsoever. Saz just moved to smaller distributors that they can bully into pushing more of their shitty bottom shelf product.
Oddly regular Buffalo Trace hasn’t been available in Houston since Covid. I heard it was a glass problem and shortage, but still not available n the last 2 or so years. And BT was never really allocated
The problem with that logic is "over spending" is different for every person based on their personal situation. That is why we will never get rid of the black market as long as there is a supply shortage.
So I work for a large company that has over 200 stores in 4 states, all of which are 3 tier states. Our company is preparing for a MASSIVE increase in Saz products in the next year, to maybe 3 years, as the shift away from 4 tiers and inducements will bring a wider, and more fair allocation of the products. An example would be the store I work in. In 2022 we did 240 bottles of Blantons ($59.99), 320 bottles of Eagle Rare ($29.99), and over 200 bottles between weller and Taylor, but we weren't given any pappy by RNDC, and only 12 total antique collections. We've been told to expect a tripling of the Blantons, rare, weller, and Taylor, and to expect multiple (3+) cases of each of the antiques, and at least a case of pappy
I hope for your sake that turns out to be true. There are not more of those products, so if you are getting them there is another store somewhere else that is not getting them.
@Bourbon Real Talk true enough they aren't making any more but RNDC kept promising us cases and cases of pappy and antique but it would never show up yet lots of small liquor stores would have a seemingly ENDLESS supply at MASSIVELY over MSRP
I wonder if this might also make the big box stores more willing to put allocated bottles out more often rather than save them for oh I don't know a massive year end drop at a rediclously limited # of locations that promoted camping out days in advance and spending hours in line. Certainly not calling out any big box stores cough cough.
Honestly I see no reason BT would have a problem with a big annual allocated drop FCFS at MSRP, so I don't think this would affect that. I could see the big stores getting a smaller slice of the pie since the mid size retailers likely have better relationships with independent stores.
Pennsylvania it is almost 16:04 impossible to find any Buffalo Trace products. Pa is a state own market/ distributor. It is definitely shady in the way certain people and locations get Buffalo Trace delivered and only a small group of people get access to these bottles. I’d love to see this become a bit more streamlined and assess be available to everyone.
I am afraid this won't change access in control states. Look into the criminal investigation going on in Oregon. I fear that what was going on there is an all too common practice.
I was told by my RNDC guy that Buffalo Trace was solely responsible for the distribution of its products to store by sales numbers . the allocated stuff went to the big sales guys
I have heard directly from store owners that RNDC were playing games, so that may have been Saz's stance, but it isn't always being followed at the local level.
Sorry, sometimes when I offer too much detail people get turned off, and the video is too long. Open States: Alaska Arizona California Colorado Florida Hawaii Illinois Indiana Kentucky Louisiana Maryland Minnesota Nebraska New York North Dakota Oklahoma Rhode Island South Carolina South Dakota Texas Washington Control States: Alabama Idaho Iowa Maine Michigan Mississippi Montana New Hampshire North Carolina Ohio Oregon Pennsylvania Utah Vermont Virginia West Virginia Wyoming Franchise States: Arkansas Conneticut Delaware Georgia Idaho Kansas Maine Massachusetts Michigan Missouri Montana Nevada New Jersey New Mexico North Carolina Ohio Tennessee Vermont Virginia Wisconsin
So here’s a follow up on the retail side of things since “the change” occurred in my market. Keg 1 did exactly what I said they’d do. They showed up last Friday February 3rd (supposed to have been there on the 1st) dropped 200 cases of product on our receiving floor and left. No merchandising whatsoever. We expected this as this is their normal operating procedure. What we didn’t expect was for sazerac to totally drop the ball on this. As of this morning not 1 single merchandiser for sazerac has shown up and we’re expecting another shipment today. When we reached our sazerac “representative”, I’ll use the the term lightly, he told us that’s not what he does and he’d find out and get back to us. That was last Friday. Not a single word. So now, we’re having to pay employees to merchandise their products they sent to us, their customer. As of now, sazerac is NOT looking good on the retail side of things
I heard there are laws on the books preventing employees of producers from doing certain merchandise activities, and that the state was suing Sazerac for violating this rule. If true, that could be a factor.
@@BourbonRealTalk Haven’t heard that but if that’s the case then it would make sense. Keg 1 guys just left and it appears the lower volume stores are merchandising their own. They’re supposed to get back to me because nobody has a clear cut answer
@@BourbonRealTalk So got the finality of it all today. There are no laws preventing them from merchandising their own products. They’re just not choosing to do it. We were told we could ask our rep nicely but that already fell on deaf ears. So bottom line is this; as a company we’re buying tens of millions of dollars of their products from them and they don’t value it. RNDC and SWGS continue to merchandise their deliveries. Guess who’s products are getting moved to the bottom shelf tomorrow? 😂 So either I can chose to let it sit in our stock room or I can pay one of my employees to stock the shelves. 🤔 Have a blessed day. Cheers !
"Back on the shelves", LOL. Like they ever were on the shelves, except at stupid prices. All because Bourdain said it was "glorious" (and drank it with ice).
I didn't hear Ohio listed. I confirmed with OHLQ (Ohio Liquor) that Ohio is a control state and that Sazerac is the supplier. Since I haven't seen BT on a SW Ohio shelf in years, I hope there's a change.
We will see. It looks like BT has brand reps in all the markets they fired RNDC and will be handling sales and promotion, the new distributors will just be delivery.
Distributors like Johnson Brothers are operational disasters on a daily basis...Sazerac will be watching their Nationwide sales take a big plunge very soon...
Where I live Glazer will continue to sell the higher end bourbons of Sazerac. Blantons, Wellers, Pappys 717, etc. Whenever that contract end it will go to the distributor that also sells beers. First time on the channel. Sorry for your loss. God Bless you and your family.
There are a lot of overlaps between watched and bourbon right now. The difference being rolex can make more watches in a few years, but it takes 23 years to make pappy 23.
I worked for RNDC for 7 years. Horrible company in my opinion, even tho I made a lot of money. Management "doesn't use Sazerac as a bribe" but they totally do. They gave a ton of high tier bourbon to Costco Management to make sure we got the majority of the floor in their stores. They also gave allocations to stores that would buy every size of Fireball, which was illegal. Fireball was their bread and butter. It got so political, I HATED the Holidays because of all of the Hassel of selling and delivering the high end stuff. Don't expect anything to change with new distributors, however, I will say SwS is more corporate and might be more fair when it comes to allocations. Inducements = 100% happened daily with Sazerac.
You’re the only person I’ve heard say that RNDC is a bad company, everyone I’ve talked to has nothing but terrific things to say about them and their management teams. It’s amazing what bad managers can do.
Where I live in King Soopers has been able to sell liquor products for the last few years recently every time I want buffalo trace I have to ask him and they go to the back and get it. I wonder if this is why they don’t have it on the shelf.
Before making a video like this, you should have probably shared some facts about the business side of Sazerac-RNDC to go along with your opinion, as that is the motivation by the change. Sazerac left RNDC for two main reasons: 1. Sazerac hates distributors and thinks they are unnecessary. If you’ve noticed, Sazerac is on a hiring spree for Market Development Reps and Managers on their website. Their jobs are to manage store account relationships for taking orders, replenishing shelves, building displays, etc. which is the core competency of a distributor. Sazerac as an organization believes their own personnel can do better than any distributor salesperson since they have allocated goods bourbons they can leverage to get displays and other points of distribution of Fireball, Platinum , Wheatley, etc.- further prioritizing their brands and getting more product in accounts. This is a unique go to market strategy that is different from all other suppliers that requires significant capital investment. How do they fund this you ask? 2. Sazerac asked RNDC to make a flat rate on all cases sold to accounts regardless of price or prestige of a product because they have all of this new extra headcount to manage their own business. The ask was something less than $1 per bottle gross profit, which when you add up all the overhead costs of labor, warehousing, delivery, etc., RNDC operates at a loss. RNDC pushed back and asked for more, and Sazerac said ok we will take our business to other distributors. Notice how Southern Glazers, the largest wine and spirits distributor in the nation, did NOT pick up their business in all of these states besides Alaska (AK there are basically only two distributors). Sazerac tried to give the same deal to SGWS and they told them no thanks, we like making money. Their best alternative was to fragment their business with Breakthru and Johnson Brothers mostly, with beer distributors picking up the rest. Breakthru was on deaths door with suppliers- most suppliers are exiting partnerships with this distributor because they aren’t national like RNDC and SGWS. Johnson Brothers is mainly a gallo distributor, so they don’t see the Sazerac as a competitor in wine, so this may be complementary to their business. Again, the Sazerac headcount structure is supposed to be doing the heavy lifting with the account management, the new distributors are simply there to ship the goods supposedly. They offered them the same bottle rate per case gross profit, and they took it. The allocation of bourbons across markets will probably be variable if Sazerac personnel make the decision on who gets what instead of the new distributors, since the new distributors don’t have the experience on executing this ( it is a huge time and labor investment) There is a common misconception that RNDC is the bad guy in how goods got allocated, but from my insight, it was formulaic and fair. There is some variability to each market, but the underlying allocation system is based on cases of Sazerac products sold, revenue in Sazerac sold, or a combination of distribution of Sazerac items, revenue and total cases. The more an account purchases based on these rules, the higher allocation they are supposed to get. However, Sazerac controls the supply and although you have stores buying more Sazerac product that does not mean they will get more product in that market. For example if someone in Kentucky grew their Sazerac business by 20% in a year, it doesn’t necessarily mean their allocations grow by 20%, especially if Sazerac sales grew by 25% average in the market or they don’t offer the same amount of cases of allocated products to the same market (which was a trend for several years). The formulaic method was directed from the ABC in many markets, and the attorneys for RNDC told their sales teams to abide. Sazerac hated this regulated formula because it left their in-market strategy null (they would promise bottles of rare bourbon to move a competitors display, gain a new placement of an unproven brand, back bar placement, etc.). Sazerac still wants to do tied-house stuff that is a basically bribes of allocated bourbons to get their wants done in an account. We will we see how that works out in a fragmented distribution system within a single market. Inducements for non-Sazerac items for allocations used to be prevalent but since these are so sought over and the supply is so controlled, this doesn’t happen much because Sazerac is making the call on where those goods go. Bottom line: consumer won’t probably benefit. Retailers will get the same treatment, except probably worse service from their new distributor since they aren’t making any money off those sales and aren’t motivated to merchandise or replenish as that’s now the Sazerac employees job.
I work for a distributor in WI that sells part of the Sazerac portfolio, including all of their allocated items. Your comment is spot on and perfectly sums up what is happening in the market. Great insight.
@@BourbonRealTalk you should update the video with this information since you video makes it seem that RNDC lost the distribution rights due to inducements and that is not the case at all. It’s purely about money and the feeling that Sazerac can do the distributors job better in terms of marketing and sales. Time will tell.
Excellent breakdown. Key words "Fragmented distribution system"...I believe these smaller distributors are gonna be in way over their heads and have no idea what they signed up for. I'm predicting massive disorganization, strained relationships and revenue drops in Sazerac's future.
It's a massive problem, but I am not sure this does anything for the consumer. I can't tell you how many bottles of Whistle Pig I had to buy just to get a bottle of Blanton's. Why do I have to drive across 3 states to get an MSRP bottle of Eagle Rare instead of paying over double the price. $1200+ for a bottle of Pappy's is outrageous and it's to the point where people I know are quitting Buffalo Trace altogether because of it. Something has to change.
Thanks for explaining this. So sorry about your brother, always so inspiring to hear about incredibly positive and life changing accomplishments that come from a tragic event. God bless
The answer is no. All of the bullshit that occurs is because of Sazerac. Distributors just add their own bullshit. 100% bet all of the old Sazerac account managers just hop over too. Hello new boss, same as the old boss.
@@BourbonRealTalk been in the game a long time. Really nothing to see here, Sazerac will make the new distributor take on truckloads of Wheatley and Yukon Jack to sell to accounts.
I was talking to an owner of a local establishment in Northwest Ohio. He said he just met with a representative from Sazarac. My initial question was about Pappy Van Winkle. He said stop in this week. Finding Pappy is virtually impossible, let alone Antique 107 or Eagle Rare. Just hearing that any of that is available at a Bar is exciting until you see the price.
When it comes to price gouging, the Whiskey community has taken a page from the watch ⌚ community reality of the last few years. Case in point; I'm going to use Rolex since everyone seems to know the brand but not necessarily the prices: A new Rolex Daytona has a starting list price of $14,800. None of the brick & mortar A.D.'s have them in stock (supposedly). You have to put your name on a waiting list that may be 2 or more years out. Thus, many will go to the Gray Market (secondary) only to pay $26,000 or more for the same base watch. What I find hilarious about all this (not in a good way) is that on the whole people that were living decent 2-3 years ago are basically living paycheck to paycheck trying to make ends meet. Yet, the gouging continues to get worse 🤔
You failed to mention in your senario that the Rolex dealer is going to make you buy 2-3 less popular models for the privilege of buying that Daytona. Same thing the liquor distributors are doing with non allocated brands
@@ingresswizard9044 Oh yeah, forgot about "tiny" tidbit. Apologies - wouldn't want something like that left out getting people's hopes up higher than they should be 😂
This was really informative and loved the really positive ending. Couple of comments. 1) Who's to say in Texas(where I am), for example, that Glazer's won't pull some of the same shenanigans as RND did? We shall see. 2) Correct me if I'm wrong, but Texas is both 3 and 4 Tier systems. Maybe you are referring to how bars and restaurants get their liquor when you refer to it being 4-Tier. I do know that some bars and restaurants, at least in certain areas, have to go through a retailer like Spec's or Goody Goody. I wasn't aware that this was statewide. However, when I purchase from a liquor store, this has gone through 3 steps in the distribution process. Just wanted to clarify. Thanks for the great video...on to Part 2.
They didn't switch to Glazer's in any of the 29 states except for Alaska. They switched to mostly beer distributors who mostly provide logistics and not sales. Watch part two. It will clear things up. Texas is a 4 tier state. Bars and restaurants are not allowed to buy from the wholesale tier. They buy from retailers who have a license to sell to them called a Class B license. That is what forms the 4th tier. When you buy from the retailer that is the 3rd step (1 producer, 2 wholesaler, 3 retailer).
Most companies would not want to duplicate the distribution equipment and infrastructure to get their products out, so large producers would still use a wholesaler in most states even if it was not required. The fact that it is required is what is messed up, and it gives wholesalers an incentive to charge more than market value for their services. It should not be required and producers should be free to hire someone at a competitive market price.
Alright so I may be able to chime in here. I work as a sales rep for a distributor who is getting Sazerac products and I used to manage the liquor department of a grocery store and worked with my reps closely and got regular bourbon. Sazerac controls allocations for bars, independent stores, and chains as well as grocery chains. The liquor chains can then distribute on a store by store basis based off what they want if they have a warehouse and self distribute from us distributors. All grocery stores are direct store delivery in this state so the regional buyer for the chain and the key account manager from the distributor will make a list of the stores that get these allocations. That said, the problem is the Regional managers would pick their “home stores” and tell all of management where to get the allocated stuff and they would buy them from the back room or a store manager would know a friend at a distributor and they would change the list and take allocations from the bigger stores and ship them to the smaller one. And that was a big problem at least in my state
So here in Wisconsin its very difficult to find Buffalo Trace product and when you do its way over priced. I walked into a local liquor store yesterday looking for a bottle of Buffalo Trace. To get a bottle of Buffalo Trace I have to buy it as a package deal with a bottle of Angles Envy. They wanted they wanted $90 for the package. All I wanted was the BT and they would not separate. I could buy Angels Envy solo at $49 off the shelf. Sucks I can drive 2hrs south and buy cases of BT but get over charged and limited to 1 bottle when we find it.
I can't say whether or not I had encountered any trolls but, I have heard comments on some sites questioning my palette cleansing with either sweet iced tea with lemon or lemonade. For whatever reason, I find that the lemon refreshes the palette and offers the next sip (30 - 60 seconds later), a clean sample to enjoy. I understand that this might only be my own experience, so be it.
Thank you for providing this very valuable information to the rest of us. It helps put some "pieces" together and explain how all the distribution networks work. I was a little disappointed that the resulting change isn't going to open up more availability for the products that a lot of us are trying to add to our collections, since I'm in MI. But the breakdown in information is helpful to "paint" more of a clearer picture. So thank you.
Well RNDC is still kicking butt in Michigan I heard of this year ago but they still are getting Buffalo Trace and heaven Hill bottles and marking them up 3 to 4 times the MSRP this is 2024 October
I don't mind paying more for BTAC and Pappy if it's from a small business, but "more" within reason. Inducements put their prices at $2-4000 here in GA. I'd pay double MSRP but 10-20X is insane.
As someone who sold the Sazerac portfolio for a brief time in my life, if you think they don’t control who we gave allocations to you are out of touch with the process. They were responsible for all those Wheatley stacks in the market, the massive Fireball, 99, Platinum 7x, & other various economy displays they held the allocations we would receive as a distributor over our heads based on outrageous goals on their economy brands. They will play the same game with any distributor they go through. The favoring of large Retailers over bars, restaurants, & smaller retailers was purely a Sazerac direction as those retailers could stack massive amounts of their product on the floor. Good video overall but out of touch as to how much Sazerac controls things through the distributor to be completely honest. Cheers!
Thank you for the feedback.
As a former saz distributor, I agree....lots of accusations being hurled at Rndc......Saz is 100 in control.
@@davencarter3658 I am filming a follow up piece to this one to tell the RNDC story. Feel free to email me if you want me to consider you perspective. randy@bourbonrealtalk.com
My brother works for a distributor and we've had discussions on this and typically the supplier will allocate X amount of allocated good to the distributor to divide among off premise / on premise accounts meaning retail /bars or rest. From what he told me is sazerac may do exactly what you're saying. They play the same game but have different rules
By the way, thank you for making this video. I always enjoy your videos and the quality of your presentations.
I don’t have a problem finding Pappy, it’s in several liquor stores in my area. I just can’t afford it because the liquor stores are all asking secondary prices and I refuse to pay $3k for a pappy
I completely understand were your coming from I question the store owner hear in Massachusetts and they say that they have to buy so much stuff that's no one want they have to get $1000 for a rip and #1500 for a 12 year and $2000 for a 15 year ,they all tell me that , and you see those huge displays of that god awful fireball and those are the store that get the best bottles.
@@anthonyavila4027 we cannot find Pappy anywhere in Colorado, they hold it all back and never seen it on the shelf anywhere
This is the usual situation in southern California. It doesn't take a lot of searching to find Pappy or many of the other difficult bottles, but prices run into the thousands. The best way to get a taste from allocated bottles here is to go to a bar. The really high end stuff (i.e. the 15+ Pappy) is expensive in bars too, but a lot of stuff that can't be found at retail for a reasonable price is readily available in bars, often at a price only a little higher than pours of common whisky. For example, the going rate for a 2-ounce pour of Blanton's around here is about $18, but the last time I saw a bottle in a store, it was $200. Usually, standard lower priced whiskies run about $10 to $15, so Blanton's is barely over the price of the common stuff. Normally, a 2-ounce pour from a bottle that legitimately costs $200 would be a lot more than $18 in a bar. It is clear that something screwy is going on in the stores, and the bars are either getting a better deal from distributors or are being more honest about their pricing, at least on the more "common" allocated stuff. The blame, of course, might not rest fully with the stores due to the problem of inducements. Hopefully this change will help to balance things out better, but I doubt there will be any significant improvement until the products of the expansion finally reach their necessary age and come on the market, which will still be a long time. It is also possible, I suppose, that the bourbon fad will run its course and the masses will move on to something else. Maybe in ten years, we will be complaining about the inability to acquire rare and highly allocated rum.
I am hopeful that more bottles will go to stores selling at MSRP after this change, but we will see.
@@heatherharrison264 I live in So Cal too and have had the same experience. I have been fortunate on a couple of occasions to be at a BevMo when they were stocking their case and got some Blanton’s, Weller and EH Taylor at MSRP (none of which are good enough to justify the secondary market prices). It seems like you just have to be at the right place at the right time. Every mom and pop store I’ve been to heavily marks up those bottles.
I doubt it’ll change much of the situation with the allocated bottles, but *hopefully* it would make the regular stuff (Buffalo Trace, Eagle Rare, Weller) available again in markets where it just doesn’t exist on the shelves
There won't be more...but hopefully less games with what there is.
@@BourbonRealTalk true but like you said, BT has dramatically increased production. They’re one of the biggest distilleries in the country. Why are their standard offerings considered allocated in states line mine (Alabama)? Do they seriously not have enough juice for the demand vs say Wild Turkey or Jim Beam? I say that it’s on the distributors who hold back the BT products
@@nickentros same. I used to be able to buy BT products on the regular and very cheap (compared to their current prices) before their recent explosion in the last 10yrs or so.
Now I can’t find BT anywhere I’ve been in the state of NC at all. On occasion a small amount gets released but it’s pretty hard to get your hands on without going to a neighboring state where they have PLENTY.
I’m hopeful this distribution change helps ease that problem significantly.
@@nickentros By my calculation the big increase in production won't hit the market for another 4-5 years. I really do think there just isn't enough and without a time machine there is nothing to be done about it in the short term.
@@nickentrosI’m with you brotha, BT is ridiculous in bama, I’ve started riding to Florida to get for a fair-ish price now
One potential benefit for most of us might be that the bottle flippers will lose some of their old contacts within the outgoing distributors. It will at least take them some time to establish new contacts that they can "induce" to tip them off to delivery dates and times to retailers.
Solid point. I had not thought of that.
It doesn’t matter when a store gets a delivery they put it on the shelf when they feel like it
@@rthilson Right. However, if you know it's been delivered then you can ask the person at the counter to check on it for you, then buy it.
@@frankstallone9121 don’t really work that way
Oh yes it does
I have worked for both RNDC and SGWS and I am still in the industry, you will not see more on the shelf. Depending on your state things will only get worse because RNDC has managed this portfolio for years and understood how to deal with the brands. Bill Goldring was an owner at RNDC, he controls it all. In Texas, for instance, there will be 11 different distributors so no it will not get better.
Some of these are good points and some are off the mark. For someone not in our industry it's pretty good.
I drive for RNDC Indiana...and your exactly right. A random jumble of smaller distributors...many already with ongoing operational struggles...its gonna be a mess!
I am filming a follow up piece to account for information shared by industry insiders. If you would like to correct my "off the mark" points please email me. randy@bourbonrealtalk.com
If you have not done so already check out the follow up piece:
th-cam.com/video/R_gMYEVypyE/w-d-xo.html
On the Buffalo Trace tour I took recently, the guy said that THEY even have to buy the bottles in their gift shop from distribution. It goes from the plant to the wholesaler then they have to buy it back for the shop. Ridiculousness.
Jack Daniels has to do the same. Sale to the whole seller then back it back. Plus JD has to get special permission to sell their own juice in a dry county.
This is true. In TX producers can sell up to 2 bottles every 30 days direct to consumers, but the lobby for wholesalers in KY and TN was so powerful that producers in those states have to "sell" to their wholesaler and buy it back to sell it in their gift shop.
This is to do with state liquor laws though. It's not distributors forcing this.
@@elvistwatty It is distributors lobbying for it though, which is a distinction without a difference
Haha, I heard the same when I was there a month ago. And they don't even know until that mornings drop what is being allocated!
Sazerac’s trading a national powerhouse distributor (RNDC) for a patchwork of lesser/smaller operations scattered around the country. Expect a whole lot of distribution issues and frustrations…and watch their annual revenue shrink.
Obviously that isn't their goal, but it is possible.
If you have not done so already check out the follow up piece:
th-cam.com/video/R_gMYEVypyE/w-d-xo.html
As someone who works and lives in a control state for the ABC I hope our customers get better monthly releases (aka more Elmer, rock hill, weller, etc) it’ll be better for me as a fellow customer and collector and for other business and their customers
I hope your right.
As someone who also lives in a state that has a government monopoly on liquor sales (and works in the industry), the BEST thing for ABC states would be to abolish the State monopoly on liquor sales, and deregulate. There are only 13 States that still have this unethical and outdated system, and they need to give it up.
There is not a single good reason to have a control state system--they prohibit competition, restrict consumer options, and are massively inconvenient for customers based on hours of operation, selection, and availability.
The only REAL solution to such states is to abolish the ABC system nationwide. The only people who like it are people who work for the ABC, and even most of THOSE people are honest enough to admit that there are no real advantages--legally, market-wise, public-health-wise, underage-purchase-control-wise, tax-income-wise, or ethically--to having the State monopolizing the sales of a product that they also regulate...
@@stereodreamer23 the main rebuttal you’ll get from the state is the tax revenue and sales and money they lend to other agencies is a tremendous thing to consider when they bring up abolishing the AL ABC
I did not like this system when I lived in Virginia. Oklahoma is maybe a little better, but the distributors have a lot of power that drives up prices. When I visit a state like Texas the selection and prices are much better, but I'm usually visiting a big city so that may make a difference.
@@stereodreamer23 I agree.
As a retailer the only inducement I was subjected to was for other Sazarac products.
For the past two years (Florida) there’s been a “points” system controlled by Sazarac. I was told by my rep that the points model kept getting changed because RNDC kept getting sued - which makes sense if you’re trying to have a single model with all the rule variations of a national distributor.
The tier system only protects the big distributors which are nothing more than a logistics company now - take orders and deliver. And if that’s all you do then your margin should reflect that. This is simple, BT is just making their supply chain more vertical.
I am recording a follow up piece and all of this will be in it. Thank you.
If you have not done so already check out the follow up piece:
th-cam.com/video/R_gMYEVypyE/w-d-xo.html
That’s a big miss, if you don’t think reps are out there hand selling new products or putting up POS or writing menus, go talk to a store owner or bar manager. I’ve seen it first hand with all three suppliers in both segments.
Does anyone else always hangout for the closing? Love the explanation about the community!
You would be surprised how many people who watch my videos have never seen it 😂
I watch to the end as well.
@@BourbonRealTalk The closing is one of the reasons I watch you. I hope to track you down someday. Headed to Texas in March...
Yep - and I whole-hearted agree in your assesment.
@@brentworls8509 randy@bourbonrealtalk.com. Email me when you are available, and you can come by for a pour.
The most interesting thing for me will be to see if Sazerac increases their allocation to the 8 states where they are going to be their own wholesaler compared to the other states. As far as your comment "Buffalo Trace Products sell themselves" is somewhat true, but allocations are a pain in the butt for the Sales Reps and they have to work hard to sell the hundreds of value brands in the Sazerac portfolio. I have worked for a large distributors for over 21 years. In my State, suppliers change distributors all the time. Some suppliers more than others. I have represented all most every supplier at one time or another over those 21 years, some multiple times. This is the first time I have seen Sazerac change Distributors, but it is unlikely you will see any changes at the local retail level especially on Highly Allocated Bourbons. Suppliers control the allocation to the States and Distributors control the allocation to the Retailers. I don't work for RNDC who lost Sazerac. I represent the other half of the Sazerac portfolio along with many other large suppliers to a large chain of package stores.
Nail on the head comment right here.
Thank you for this. I am going to be doing a follow up piece to this. If you want to add more thoughts email me randy@bourbonrealtalk.com
I would guess, absolutely they will favor those 8 states with allocated products. Sazerac is pushing to be their own wholesaler in as many of these non-franchise states as they possibly can.
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"If that person can hate you online even though they don't know you, there's nothing can keeps me from loving online even though I don't really know you." Now that is some real talk.
Thank you, and I love you 😀
Louisiana was a split Buffalo Trace portfolio state before this move. SGWS has Pappy, Weller, EH Taylor, Eagle Rare, & Blanton’s. RNDC has the rest, in which, they lost. The SGWS portion is currently staying put.
Good to know.
Once the contract ends with Glazer’s CCD will pick up the remaining brands.
Hey Randy! Know that I love you too man. Thanks for all you do to promote bourbon and whiskey and keep us well informed. Peace my friend!
Thank you! It means a lot when people say it back!
Great explanation of BT r.e. distribution revamp and layout of the business side of spirits as a whole. 👍
So some the stuff that we whiskey consumers deal with:
1) bundled booze packages, e.g., Weller Full Proof or some other high demand juice packaged with vodka, mixer, “lesser” demand bourbon for the combined SRP that also happens to be at or close to secondary price for the bottle of high demand juice.
2) local bottle shop selling Stagg Jr or some other allocated bottle at or very near secondary. Stagg Jr goes for $200-$250 at one local shop that seems to always get it not too long after release.
3) local bottle shop keeps something like Pappy off-shelf, saved only for someone in great favor by the owner.
4) otherwise honorable bottle shop sells even high demand bottles at or slightly above SRP but for some reason these bottles seem to always vanish before average joes can get them. They have an online shop that include lists like “Coming Soon” and “Newly Arrived” which I’m assuming are monitored by some secondary seller’s algorithm and snapped up almost immediately after being posted.
5) bottle shops pushing entry level well liquor like Jim Beam White Label at far below retail. Not that this is a bad thing but is this part of that “ethical” quandary that retailers are forced into by distributors in order to gain favor?
I am certain there are more issues.
All issues in the industry.
Those issues are with the retailer itself and will exist no matter the distribution
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The only reason they were being carried by RNDC is because the owner of Sazerac (inherited it) Bill Goldring owned a distributor in many states before inheriting Sazerac..since it is illegal to own both a distributor and a supplier he sold the distributor to RNDC making them one of the largest in the country. Their relationship goes back for 20+ years.
Wow! I didn't know that. I am filming a follow up episode to this one because so much interesting information has been brought to my attention. If you want to give me more details to research on please email me randy@bourbonrealtalk.com
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Glad someone is talking about it. My local stores didn't have much positive to say about the changes, because the distributor taking over for them is apparently quite terrible.
yay me...
They will have to play nice. This only means the retailer snubbed the rep when they were pushing products the store wasn't interested in. Now the store will have to make nice to get access to the stuff they want.
@@BourbonRealTalk
Not true. I personally work for the largest retailer in Texas and will tell you that Freedom (Keg 1) will be distributing in my market and they’re terrible. They show up; drop product and leave. They don’t care about the liquor aspect of their current business at all. No merchandising. Nothing. They will have to do a 180 with how they do business or it’s gonna go to crap even more so than it is now. Only possible bright side is I met a representative from sazerac a couple weeks ago and I believe sazerac will use their own merchandiser which would be a plus. We shall see next month
@@BourbonHawk69 Check out the information added to the video description. It speaks to your point.
@@BourbonRealTalk
Perfect. That’s fantastic reporting. That’s what I was hoping for knowing the new distributors reputation for not caring much about the spirits side of the business. Thanks for such great research. I’ve come to expect nothing less from you.
Yeah changing distribution won't change "games being played" it's something that occurs. Video seems to just paint RNDC as the reason for games but their product distribution gets no mention of such things
i work for a company in western NY who had their hands in many aspects of manufacturing spaghetti sauce, salsa, alfredo sauce, cooking wines then they tried the alcohol side they had their own brand Recipe 21, we did many others captain Morgan, all the Blue Chair Bay products sake we were a small co packer that did that kind of stuff for like 10 years or so we even were doing White Claw and Crook And Marker products , there were also many other products we made including a lot of the small 50ML bottles any way they are getting out of the alcohol side of the business but i really liked running that type of products when we went to the liquor store and you can see all the products you had a hand in making especially me because i am a filler operator so i had to make sure every bottle that went past me was quality product.
We need people with your skill. Thank you!
@@BourbonRealTalk i have been doing that 28 years now
As someone who has worked at Total wine and RNDC for over 10 years. I can certainly tell you Sazerac is in 100% control of all their products. Especially their hard to get items. Everything is micromanaged and I mean everything. Basically Sazerac controls all prices at least in terms of how much it is sold to stores. That is why you can go into Sam's club and Costco and see it sell for so cheap. In terms of allocation that is up to Sazerac and in terms of where it goes when it reaches us that is determined by an account manager and everytime I order Buffalo Trace or Something similar it must be approved which often my request can be refused. As for Pappy and stuff Similar, that stuff usually already has a home before we get. We already know who we are going to offer it to. Places like Costco and liqour stores also usually already know what customers they will offer it too as well. At least that is my experience. As for the changing of distributors, I highly doubt that will affect their bourbon allocation numbers. They stand by quality and not quantity and they also stand by being the lowest-priced and affordable which is why a 10 year Pappy sold at cost to any store is only 110 dollars at least in my market. And in my opinion I believe this whole battle is that Sazerac wants to eventually go Independent and be away from distributors and control their products and pricing which is what they have done in a few states already.
I am recording a follow up piece to include some of the industry insider information like your comment. Thank you.
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I really appreciate the episode and your closing words. I am a great enjoyer of Bourbon and Rye's and often when I follow so FB pages there is a lot of negativity that I do not get. We are there to share our experiences with this great liquid. I'm retired military and am always down for fun jabs but some of it is just flat out negative. Thank you again.
Our pleasure!
Excellent breakdown! I was wondering how all that shakes out. Living in DFW area we only have the chain stores for the most part to source our pour from.
We may see more inventory go to the independent stores because of this, but we will see.
Being that I work in the beverage industry here in Washington State. I will say that the issues that Sazerac had with RNDC using certain items to leverage non-Sazerac products were not fixed with Sazerac ultimately switching distributors, going from RNDC to Columbia Distributing. Columbia Distributing is now putting Sazerac items on "Tier'd Allocations" meaning retailers now have to spend "X" to hit tier 1 to unlock 2 bottles of Weller. Spend "Y" to unlock 2 bottles of Pappys. Finally spending "Z" to unlock the opportunity to purchase the BTAC collection. They are not allowing you skip the tier systems. You must unlock all tiers to get the bottles you want, and each tier differs by $20-30k.
Check out the comment I added to the video description. I am going to be doing a follow up video to this one.
@@BourbonRealTalk RNDC here in Washington was also caught holding onto many specific items for their own employees, friends & family, which resulted in certain products never making it out to the marketplace. Sazerac also was forced to switch to Columbia here in Washington, because Reyes Distributing is proposing to buy Columbia and its distribution territories. And for that to all go through, Columbia had to acquire and add certain brands to the portfolio before Reyes cuts the check to buy them out.
@@IsaiahParinas Interesting!
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Insane how often I have heard the inducement statement from stores in Mass. I honestly didn't know it was illegal until this video.
It is a common practice that becomes almost universal when products are in high demand.
My Mass guy told me same thing recently.
1st I’m deeply sorry for the lost of your family member & 2nd I’m appreciative of his service to this nation & 3rd I’m greatful for your channel & the information on your channel so keep up the great work!
Thank you! Have you joined our community at facebook.com/groups/bourbonrealtalkcommunity?
Thank you for your kind words and support. I appreciate you taking the time to watch my channel and engage in the whiskey community. Is there a particular topic or bourbon you would like me to cover in a future video?
@@BourbonRealTalk probably a guide for new folks to the bourbon community to help them along their journey to the enjoyment of fine bourbons what to get what not to get caught up in etc basically everything that helped you to get to where you are in your journey.
@@alphahoss1947 Something like this:
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It would be nice if there was a better spread of allocated bottles especially in ABC states. It’s so ridiculous when you can find shelves packed with BTAC bottles in some states and never even see them in your home state.
Hopefully helps, but to be fair there are no states with BTAC bottles on shleves.
@@BourbonRealTalk I have personally seen them in three states; sent a bank customer who was going on vacation near one of those stores- three years later- and they purchased two different bottles at what he said was only 40% or so above MSRP, maybe 50%. The owners policy is posted on the wall 🧱 and hasn't changed since the store opened pre-1900: "What you see is what we have, if you want something else- I'll try my best to find it." It has DIRECT line of sight to a certain Olympic Training Facility, and he and I have both found unimaginable bottles of Whiskey, brandy (including Cognac and Armagnac), old red wines, and rare champagne visible on the shelf, fairly priced. The two other stores/states have essentially the same motto, and those grandsons or great-grandsons honor that intent, nothing hidden under the counter or out back. (Maybe up high behind the counter or glass to prevent snatch-and-grabs) even you ever come to NY let me know. It's a BTAC desert 🏜 except for maybe three or four places in the entire 54,556 square miles!
@@johncormier8194 50% over MSRP for BTAC is $150. Sorry, but I just don't believe that anyplace keeps bottles on the shelf at that price. It would just take one asshole who wanted to make a quick $20k to just buy everything on the shelf. If it's true just name the place rather than being intentionally vague and obtuse. But the reality is that every single retailer faces the same issue, if you sell anywhere near MSRP it will FLY off the shelves faster than you can stock it. Hence every bourbon lover in every state having to deal with the various hoops or insane prices it takes to find them. But please, prove me wrong, I'll take a trip to restock my shelves.
Liar
I own a liquor store in Oklahoma. A few years ago we went through massive law changes. All of our distributors used to be privately owned and they all by law were sold equal quantities of all products. Their only way to compete at that time was through service. When the laws changed the largest distributors teamed up with RnDC and SGWS. The smaller distributors suffered greatly because each product was with only one distributor. Sazerac did something interesting here when that happened. Some items are with RNDC, some with SGWS, and some with a smaller distributor Boardwalk (now Armada). SGWS has been good to us and we get Weller and Buffalo Trace. I've even had a few bottles of BTAC. RNDC got Blantons, Eagle Rare, Pappy, and Handy. I have had maybe 12 bottles of Blantons in the last 4 years and none of the others. The third distributor didn't get much that is allocated (only Bowman I believe).
With this new change only the products with RNDC are moving to a new distributor. They are going to be distributed by 3 different distributors that are separated into regions. These distributors are primarily beer distributors (Molson/Coors or almost everything that isn't distributed by Bud here).
It is going to be interesting to see what this does for us. I don't think it will be bad.
Also we have recently begun stocking Prideful Goat! I appreciate that it is being distributed my one of the smaller distributors here were it won't be lost in the sea of giants.
Thank you for supporting the brand. We have an amazing wholesaler in OK and could not be happier.
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Sazarac has hundreds of low priced liquors in their portfolio. If you think that the pressure to buy these items is going to go away, for store owners and bars/restaurants to stay on Sazerac’s allocated bourbon list when they move their brands to beer companies and their own sales force, you’re kidding yourself.
I suspect there will still be pressure to buy the non allocated brands, what I hope will change is pushing non sazerac brands with the inventory.
So when it is non-allocated Sazerac brands, it is called “pressure to buy” but when it’s non-Sazerac brands, it’s called “pushing” by the sales person who represents both? The core function of a supplier is just that, to supply. People are throwing around the terms inducement and tie in sale like there’s an abundance of these bourbons available from Sazerac and somehow they are being hoarded or unfairly distributed. The allocated Bourbons from Sazerac are a very small percentage of their total sales. They put a great amount of pressure on their distributors to push hundreds of low priced brands most people have never even heard of and they hold the distributor accountable (hostage)with their prized bourbon inventory. Imagine Crown Royal was allocated and a Diageo rep says to a customer, sure I will sell you Crown Royal but can you help me out & buy some cases of Ketel One, Captain Morgan and CasaMigos?
Doesn’t sound too hard but Is that pressure or pushing?
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@@KK-kz4kt from my experience it was “good customers” who got allocations like ER, EHT and Weller, customers who are willing to try out new products or just more frequently bought what was being sold, ie single bottles. In the end, reps work with the same accounts for YEARS sometimes their whole career. Doesn’t seem like pushing stacks of crap liquor is conducive to a successful long term partnership.
Best bourbon video I've ever seen. Learned a lot! Thanks.
Glad it was helpful!
Was it a smart move? I don't think so. Here is why. In Texas they will be going from 1 liquor distributor to 10 beer distributors. Talking about a Logistics nightmare. First, the Buffalo Trace distillery doesn't make enough to go around. Second, 50% of their production leaves the country. Third, Buffalo Trace actually was responsible for making certain products allocated. By not making enough to begin with. Fourth, Buffalo Trace was also the one to slot the amounts of products to certain destinations. But those decisions didn't come from the Buffalo Trace Distillery. Those decisions actually came from Sazerac themselves. You see Sazerac makes Fireball, Benchmark, Rich and Rare, Canadian Mist, Canadian Hunter and Taaka too. They don't have any problems mass producing those products. Why is that?
Also, RNDC doesn't inflate the prices of those allocated products. RNDC sells
Pappy Van Winkle 10 year for $59.85 a bottle
Pappy Van Winkle 12 year $67.05
I can keep listing all of them.
So when you see the price on those items for $500.00 and up. That is not because of RNDC. That is because of a mom and pop liquor store or because some bar, restaurants or hotels wants to price gouge the consumer.
All accurate. This information is going in a follow up piece I am releasing tomorrow on this subject.
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I bartend in SC. My restaurant was able to get 2 bottles of Blanton's a month last year which we usually poured off in 2 or 3 days. Haven't seen any this year and I haven't seen any BT products at all on the shelves at the handful of stores I visit weekly.
I've been trying to find an EH Taylor to open when I graduate college in May...Fingers crossed.
Good luck! Work those relationships at the stores you frequent. That will be your best shot.
Beautiful. I enjoyed the podcast & hope this news helps a bit where I live in Oklahoma. Also, thanks for letting us know why you are doing this. Cheers!
My pleasure. Thank you for the support.
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I live in the bay area California. We easily find BT $23, Eagle Rare $35, E.H. Taylor $80.. at times Weller special res $50.. everything else, non-existent
You have a good hook up there. In LA, same story with buffalo Trace but eagle rare is gone from the shelves at $40 but can be found at $60, EH Taylor's $100 minimum, Weller SR, no less than $100.
Sounds like you found a good store.
It’s already changed here in CO and honestly it’s worse than it was with RNDC. They also need to regulate pricing, stores charging more than secondary
Sad to hear this.
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First time viewer. I lost my brother in law 3 weeks ago. I’m glad I found you.
I am sorry for your loss. Tell your wife I love her and I am sorry!
Awesome job explaining it. I often go to different states to search for bottles I can’t get at home. Most of what I get comes from small local stores I visit and buy from on a regular basis. Sometimes I can get at retail, but it usually is marked up to a fair price. How can we keep the product from reaching resellers (secondary) instead of drinkers? Since Buffalo Trace products are so hard to find, I’ve been buying other products that are just as good or even better. Can’t wait to see how things shake out over the next 5-10 years. Cheers!
If inventory starts to go to retailers who do not price gouge, they will know who the regular customers are who are drinkers and not flippers. This change could help solve the problem.
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New subscriber as well as a newbie to Bourbons at 61…. Enjoy your approach and delivery
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As someone who works for RNDC - we were making little to no commission off of these brands compared to others spirits. Also, the allocations for items such as the antique collection and pappy van winkle, was not even hardly in our control as it used to be in previous years. Upper management had to follow strict guidelines when allocating based on revenue in accounts on other Sazerac items that were not Buffalo trace products, per Sazerac requirements.
That's because of the small volume for the allocated products and why there are the problems described in the video. A company having a basis for an allocation program that is at least somewhat fair seems to make sense. You may see it as arbitrary, but volume is a basis whether you draw the circle around BT products only or the products for the company that owns BT and other brands (Sazerac). It would not make sense for Sazerac to base an allocation plan on sales volumes of their competitors.
I appreciate your perspective. Most of my information comes from retail owners. The low commissions on allocated products I think was part of what lead field reps to start using the BT products to sell higher volumes of other products they did make money on.
I drive in Indiana for RNDC and this comment is true. Sazerac was creating an economically unsustainable relationship...although a huge loss, I think RNDC in some ways is glad to be soon rid of them.
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@@outlander2878 every RNDC driver I’ve spoken to is thrilled.
One of the things that drives me nuts is my local liquor store that does have some hard to find stuff. Nothing like the BTAC or Pappy, but things that should be kinda reasonable to find. During my hunt for ECBP c922 or b522 I asked if they had gotten any in, and they told me they probably won't get any because the don't move enough product like that. Too many old bottles on the shelves. I looked at what they had. Many bottles of A121, b520 etc...all priced at $120+. They payed less than MSRP. My guess is $35 or less. Your markup is 200% on OLD news dusty shelf product. ??????? Do you not understand economics 101? They won't hear of making an offer either. I have no problem giving my local brick and morter store a profit, as I want them to stay in business. They do pretty well as they never really have no one coming in for something. Liquor is a good business as far as I can tell, as they have been there a looooong time. Pretty hard to strike a relationship with an owner that is always trying to screw you on price. Total wine, Bevmo sometimes have them and don't price gouge. These small, brick and morter liquor stores are sometimes their own worst enemies. Probably equal to the wholesalers you speak of.
Exactly. My little local store around the corner does this and as a result I never buy from them anymore. I would buy normal product at higher prices to help establish a relationship, but they wouldn’t budge on insane prices on harder to find product. I just got tired of the one sided deal and as such, I buy from big retailers.
Hopefully this change will help inventory end up at stores that do not engage in this practice. I agree that it doesn't make any sense.
@@msa4998 same here, I was just in a local store in LA and they have a great selection but their prices are about $20 higher than the chain stores. I pointed that out to the owner and he said he does that to compete with them. Not with my help you won't! If they instead kept the same price or even undercut they would move more quantities off the shelves. I don't get it.
They have a supply issue. Their bottom shelf stuff (BT and WSR) is 6 years old. There is a big lag between a ramp up in production and a ramp up in supply.
I am guessing at least 4 years.
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Love your positive ending & reflection on the current situation. I just got into buffalo trace products so I’m hoping this leads to better times for us people who truly want to experience the juice rather than profiting on it
I hope so too!
Great video. Great info. Thank you so much.
(kind edit tip: dont stay in that 2 shot so long. Better off just using 2nd camera for a straight on close up with you want to cut to another perspective 🙌).
Wes used the second angle to hide my screw ups. We sometimes use the front camera and punch in. This video was hard to edit because it was so technical and I was reading a lot of the script and making a lot of mistakes.
@@BourbonRealTalk I hear ya. Respect the time and grind on your end. I understand all the work that goes into it!
@@danworthington Thanks! I appreciate the tips, too.
Old news but good so far. They have also cracked down on distributors giving to their friends and family that also own retail outlets. Got one Pappy last year because the stores I frequent that should have received them never did. Several this year!
Congrats!
@@BourbonRealTalk Thanks. I really hope this along with the reported supply increase makes more of these available to everyone. I also have to visit other states to find prideful goat releases so let’s hope you give some love to Michigan as well. :)
@@lordgarth1 You can have it shipped to you on Seelbach's.
@@BourbonRealTalk Thanks. Sadly no 15 year but I know a FL store that had one. I’m going to hope it’s still there when I go down in ‘march.
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Just entered a drawing at a local owned store for a bottle of Pappy. Owner was talking about how she had to move so many bottle of variety X to get 1 bottle of variety Y. I walked out $160 lighter and happy with what I bought.
Congrats!
That's exactly how it goes across the nation. One of my local liquor store owners here in LA recently told me he has to buy many cases of junk vodka just to get allocated whiskey
@@BigBadJerryRogers that’s because Sazerac controls and/or pays VERY close attention to where they go based on Sazerac volume
Found this editorial enlightening and entertaining ... Looking forward to new postings ... Apologies, but I won't be seeing your FB content, as I left that behind some years back ( my choice ) without regret. Thanks very much for the share, and, Happy New Year!
We have started a non FB community on Patreon if you want to support and engage. patreon.com/bourbonrealtalkplus
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I had a liquor store in Houston and the inducement with RNDC is real. They used that big time and it made it hard for me to receive any allocated liquors. You had to buy some non buffalo trace products in order to get one bottle of eagle rare or blantons.
Thank you for the confirmation. Some people are saying that never happened.
Think about it tho. When supply is EXTREMELY limited because of the producer. There is only so much product to go around. You’ve gotta be selective and support the retailers that support you. And the Sazerac portfolio is HUGE those bourbons are the most sought after, but definitely not the most important brands in that book.
@@morrellmade They're pushing garbage though on store owners and they know it though. That's sleazy. I just had a local store owner in Los Angeles tell me he has to buy many cases of garbage vodka they're pushing just to get allocated whiskey. That's like extortion.
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I'm a big Buffalo Trace fan and live about an hour from the distillery in Kentucky. I go to the distillery about every 90 days to buy a few bottles, and get really upset when I go to a local store and either can't find any product or find it and they have marked it very high. I can get Buffalo Trace at the distillery for about $27, but a local retailer marks it up to $40. Weller Reserve, I can get for about $30-$32 at the distillery, but it may cost $60-$80 retail. Eagle Rare, same thing, if you can find it, it's closer to $90 retail. MSRP has a profit already built into it if we see a retailer marking bottles up many times the MSRP, we should tell the owner that they will no longer get our business because of this practice.
Agreed!
Inducements are the reason my local store has 3 bottles of WLW for $2400 apiece.
I am sure your store had to put up with inducements to get the bottles, but once they have them they decide if they are going to try to make all their profit on the 3 bottles or are they going to use the 3 bottles to encourage customer behavior that helps the stores long term goals. Just because the did a lot to get the bottles does not justify that big of a price hike.
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I can assure those bottles are that much because there’s just not that many, I can tell there definitely isn’t enough for every store to get one let alone 3 for every store.
I have a question. My local liquor store is selling 12 year Weller for a certain price (above MSRP mind you) but to get it, you have to buy like a case of vodka spritzers or something. Is this an inducement and is this illegal?
It is not. Inducement laws are to protect retailer's from larger wholesalers and producers since a retailer has only one option of who to buy a brand from. Consumers can go to another liquor store to buy W12 that isn't selling it in a bundle, so this is not considered an inducement.
I will say I would not shop at a store that is both price gouging AND selling in bundles.
@@BourbonRealTalk thanks for the clarification:)
Great coverage of the situation, much appreciated. Subbed.
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I recently saw a liquor store near me where you could only buy Eagle Rare with a bottle higher end Makers Mark, they were priced at $150.
The store is usually allowed to bundle without it being considered and inducement since you as a consumer do not have to buy from that one store. From the store's perspective they can only buy ER from one wholesaler, which is why inducement laws exist between the wholesaler and retailer.
the only way we'll see those bourbons on the shelf again is when/IF supply catches up to demand. it could be several more years until that happens. The major producers have only recently begun significant capacity expansions, and depending on when those are up and running, you still basically have to add 10-17 years on top of that before we start seeing the highly allocated stuff turning up at retail stores and that's assuming these producers are even ramping up their production of those highly allocated items.
Solid points!
there is another way--economic downturn. People will be thrilled to pay $25/bottle as opposed to $150 when they only have $25.
First time viewer. Your ending caught me by surprise and at the right time. Thank you.
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You rattled off those states like it was nothing at all!
Thanks for the effort you put into all this!
You make it look effortless!
I have a teleprompter...I am not talented😂
Sazerac in North Texas is going from RNDC to Andrews Distributing …. Huge beer distributor. Excited to see how this turns out.
Check out the industry opinion I posted in the video description. It was very informative.
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Sure would be nice to be able to walk in a store and buy a bottle of Eagle Rare whenever.
One day.
Thank you for breaking down the tier system clearly. So many on the consumer side have no idea what a crap-shoot it is.
Glad it was helpful.
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This isn't going to help with availability of allocated goods whatsoever. Saz just moved to smaller distributors that they can bully into pushing more of their shitty bottom shelf product.
Fair point. This isn't going to make there be more Pappy, which is the real issue...supply.
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Oddly regular Buffalo Trace hasn’t been available in Houston since Covid. I heard it was a glass problem and shortage, but still not available n the last 2 or so years. And BT was never really allocated
Interesting.
@@BourbonRealTalk I think you said you were in Texas - Specs rarely sees it and if they get any in it’s just a few cases when it used to be plentiful
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I have a novel idea to stop price gouging, stop over spending for products.
The problem with that logic is "over spending" is different for every person based on their personal situation. That is why we will never get rid of the black market as long as there is a supply shortage.
So I work for a large company that has over 200 stores in 4 states, all of which are 3 tier states. Our company is preparing for a MASSIVE increase in Saz products in the next year, to maybe 3 years, as the shift away from 4 tiers and inducements will bring a wider, and more fair allocation of the products. An example would be the store I work in. In 2022 we did 240 bottles of Blantons ($59.99), 320 bottles of Eagle Rare ($29.99), and over 200 bottles between weller and Taylor, but we weren't given any pappy by RNDC, and only 12 total antique collections. We've been told to expect a tripling of the Blantons, rare, weller, and Taylor, and to expect multiple (3+) cases of each of the antiques, and at least a case of pappy
I hope for your sake that turns out to be true. There are not more of those products, so if you are getting them there is another store somewhere else that is not getting them.
@Bourbon Real Talk true enough they aren't making any more but RNDC kept promising us cases and cases of pappy and antique but it would never show up yet lots of small liquor stores would have a seemingly ENDLESS supply at MASSIVELY over MSRP
I wonder if this might also make the big box stores more willing to put allocated bottles out more often rather than save them for oh I don't know a massive year end drop at a rediclously limited # of locations that promoted camping out days in advance and spending hours in line. Certainly not calling out any big box stores cough cough.
I totally understand your wining.
Honestly I see no reason BT would have a problem with a big annual allocated drop FCFS at MSRP, so I don't think this would affect that. I could see the big stores getting a smaller slice of the pie since the mid size retailers likely have better relationships with independent stores.
@@BourbonRealTalk l
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Pennsylvania it is almost 16:04 impossible to find any Buffalo Trace products. Pa is a state own market/ distributor. It is definitely shady in the way certain people and locations get Buffalo Trace delivered and only a small group of people get access to these bottles. I’d love to see this become a bit more streamlined and assess be available to everyone.
I am afraid this won't change access in control states. Look into the criminal investigation going on in Oregon. I fear that what was going on there is an all too common practice.
I was told by my RNDC guy that Buffalo Trace was solely responsible for the distribution of its products to store by sales numbers . the allocated stuff went to the big sales guys
That's recent. Like the last 2 years. Up until then RNDC did whatever they wanted.
I have heard directly from store owners that RNDC were playing games, so that may have been Saz's stance, but it isn't always being followed at the local level.
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Wish you would've put up a list of states for each category when you were describing the types.
Sorry, sometimes when I offer too much detail people get turned off, and the video is too long.
Open States:
Alaska
Arizona
California
Colorado
Florida
Hawaii
Illinois
Indiana
Kentucky
Louisiana
Maryland
Minnesota
Nebraska
New York
North Dakota
Oklahoma
Rhode Island
South Carolina
South Dakota
Texas
Washington
Control States:
Alabama
Idaho
Iowa
Maine
Michigan
Mississippi
Montana
New Hampshire
North Carolina
Ohio
Oregon
Pennsylvania
Utah
Vermont
Virginia
West Virginia
Wyoming
Franchise States:
Arkansas
Conneticut
Delaware
Georgia
Idaho
Kansas
Maine
Massachusetts
Michigan
Missouri
Montana
Nevada
New Jersey
New Mexico
North Carolina
Ohio
Tennessee
Vermont
Virginia
Wisconsin
I’m willing to wait the BT craze out and buy it when it starts to come down.
There is plenty of good bourbon on the shelf.
So here’s a follow up on the retail side of things since “the change” occurred in my market. Keg 1 did exactly what I said they’d do. They showed up last Friday February 3rd (supposed to have been there on the 1st) dropped 200 cases of product on our receiving floor and left. No merchandising whatsoever. We expected this as this is their normal operating procedure. What we didn’t expect was for sazerac to totally drop the ball on this. As of this morning not 1 single merchandiser for sazerac has shown up and we’re expecting another shipment today. When we reached our sazerac “representative”, I’ll use the the term lightly, he told us that’s not what he does and he’d find out and get back to us. That was last Friday. Not a single word. So now, we’re having to pay employees to merchandise their products they sent to us, their customer. As of now, sazerac is NOT looking good on the retail side of things
I heard there are laws on the books preventing employees of producers from doing certain merchandise activities, and that the state was suing Sazerac for violating this rule. If true, that could be a factor.
@@BourbonRealTalk
Haven’t heard that but if that’s the case then it would make sense. Keg 1 guys just left and it appears the lower volume stores are merchandising their own. They’re supposed to get back to me because nobody has a clear cut answer
@@BourbonRealTalk
So got the finality of it all today. There are no laws preventing them from merchandising their own products. They’re just not choosing to do it. We were told we could ask our rep nicely but that already fell on deaf ears. So bottom line is this; as a company we’re buying tens of millions of dollars of their products from them and they don’t value it. RNDC and SWGS continue to merchandise their deliveries. Guess who’s products are getting moved to the bottom shelf tomorrow? 😂
So either I can chose to let it sit in our stock room or I can pay one of my employees to stock the shelves. 🤔
Have a blessed day. Cheers !
"Back on the shelves", LOL. Like they ever were on the shelves, except at stupid prices. All because Bourdain said it was "glorious" (and drank it with ice).
😂
I didn't hear Ohio listed. I confirmed with OHLQ (Ohio Liquor) that Ohio is a control state and that Sazerac is the supplier. Since I haven't seen BT on a SW Ohio shelf in years, I hope there's a change.
This sounds like a distribution issue. I don't think this change will affect it. Just not enough supply going to your state.
@@BourbonRealTalk 😢
I’ve never been able to find any Buffalo Trace on self in my region. I’m so over with Buffalo Trace!
Hopefully this change helps. Also, plenty of good whiskey on the shelves that isn't Bt.
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Washington State also changed distributors from RNDC to Columbia. Huge difference already.
Awesome!
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I'm blown away what a horrible decision it was to leave RNDC. On a strategic level this would cause insane turmoil
We will see. It looks like BT has brand reps in all the markets they fired RNDC and will be handling sales and promotion, the new distributors will just be delivery.
@@BourbonRealTalk seems you have a bone to pick with RNDC
Distributors like Johnson Brothers are operational disasters on a daily basis...Sazerac will be watching their Nationwide sales take a big plunge very soon...
@@BourbonRealTalk lol “just be delivery”. That isn’t the way it will work. At all.
@@alihilly1 How will it work?
Where I live Glazer will continue to sell the higher end bourbons of Sazerac. Blantons, Wellers, Pappys 717, etc. Whenever that contract end it will go to the distributor that also sells beers. First time on the channel. Sorry for your loss. God Bless you and your family.
Thank you !
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I’m new to the Bourbon game- but it sounds EXACTLY like my quest to get a new Rolex from an Authorized Dealer. Crazy similarities.
There are a lot of overlaps between watched and bourbon right now. The difference being rolex can make more watches in a few years, but it takes 23 years to make pappy 23.
Love the positive message!!!
Thank you!
Liquor store owners will just hoard it like they do Stagg and Blantons
Eventually that will backfire on them.
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Great content! Had seen the news and had no idea what if any impact it may have. Thanks for the insight.
My pleasure!
I worked for RNDC for 7 years. Horrible company in my opinion, even tho I made a lot of money. Management "doesn't use Sazerac as a bribe" but they totally do. They gave a ton of high tier bourbon to Costco Management to make sure we got the majority of the floor in their stores. They also gave allocations to stores that would buy every size of Fireball, which was illegal. Fireball was their bread and butter. It got so political, I HATED the Holidays because of all of the Hassel of selling and delivering the high end stuff. Don't expect anything to change with new distributors, however, I will say SwS is more corporate and might be more fair when it comes to allocations. Inducements = 100% happened daily with Sazerac.
Thank you for the independent confirmation. People still in the industry get weird when the subject comes up.
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You’re the only person I’ve heard say that RNDC is a bad company, everyone I’ve talked to has nothing but terrific things to say about them and their management teams. It’s amazing what bad managers can do.
Where I live in King Soopers has been able to sell liquor products for the last few years recently every time I want buffalo trace I have to ask him and they go to the back and get it. I wonder if this is why they don’t have it on the shelf.
They don't put it out because one person would buy all of it. It is the nature of the beast.
Before making a video like this, you should have probably shared some facts about the business side of Sazerac-RNDC to go along with your opinion, as that is the motivation by the change.
Sazerac left RNDC for two main reasons:
1. Sazerac hates distributors and thinks they are unnecessary. If you’ve noticed, Sazerac is on a hiring spree for Market Development Reps and Managers on their website. Their jobs are to manage store account relationships for taking orders, replenishing shelves, building displays, etc. which is the core competency of a distributor. Sazerac as an organization believes their own personnel can do better than any distributor salesperson since they have allocated goods bourbons they can leverage to get displays and other points of distribution of Fireball, Platinum , Wheatley, etc.- further prioritizing their brands and getting more product in accounts. This is a unique go to market strategy that is different from all other suppliers that requires significant capital investment. How do they fund this you ask?
2. Sazerac asked RNDC to make a flat rate on all cases sold to accounts regardless of price or prestige of a product because they have all of this new extra headcount to manage their own business. The ask was something less than $1 per bottle gross profit, which when you add up all the overhead costs of labor, warehousing, delivery, etc., RNDC operates at a loss. RNDC pushed back and asked for more, and Sazerac said ok we will take our business to other distributors.
Notice how Southern Glazers, the largest wine and spirits distributor in the nation, did NOT pick up their business in all of these states besides Alaska (AK there are basically only two distributors). Sazerac tried to give the same deal to SGWS and they told them no thanks, we like making money. Their best alternative was to fragment their business with Breakthru and Johnson Brothers mostly, with beer distributors picking up the rest. Breakthru was on deaths door with suppliers- most suppliers are exiting partnerships with this distributor because they aren’t national like RNDC and SGWS. Johnson Brothers is mainly a gallo distributor, so they don’t see the Sazerac as a competitor in wine, so this may be complementary to their business. Again, the Sazerac headcount structure is supposed to be doing the heavy lifting with the account management, the new distributors are simply there to ship the goods supposedly. They offered them the same bottle rate per case gross profit, and they took it.
The allocation of bourbons across markets will probably be variable if Sazerac personnel make the decision on who gets what instead of the new distributors, since the new distributors don’t have the experience on executing this ( it is a huge time and labor investment) There is a common misconception that RNDC is the bad guy in how goods got allocated, but from my insight, it was formulaic and fair. There is some variability to each market, but the underlying allocation system is based on cases of Sazerac products sold, revenue in Sazerac sold, or a combination of distribution of Sazerac items, revenue and total cases. The more an account purchases based on these rules, the higher allocation they are supposed to get. However, Sazerac controls the supply and although you have stores buying more Sazerac product that does not mean they will get more product in that market. For example if someone in Kentucky grew their Sazerac business by 20% in a year, it doesn’t necessarily mean their allocations grow by 20%, especially if Sazerac sales grew by 25% average in the market or they don’t offer the same amount of cases of allocated products to the same market (which was a trend for several years). The formulaic method was directed from the ABC in many markets, and the attorneys for RNDC told their sales teams to abide. Sazerac hated this regulated formula because it left their in-market strategy null (they would promise bottles of rare bourbon to move a competitors display, gain a new placement of an unproven brand, back bar placement, etc.). Sazerac still wants to do tied-house stuff that is a basically bribes of allocated bourbons to get their wants done in an account. We will we see how that works out in a fragmented distribution system within a single market.
Inducements for non-Sazerac items for allocations used to be prevalent but since these are so sought over and the supply is so controlled, this doesn’t happen much because Sazerac is making the call on where those goods go.
Bottom line: consumer won’t probably benefit. Retailers will get the same treatment, except probably worse service from their new distributor since they aren’t making any money off those sales and aren’t motivated to merchandise or replenish as that’s now the Sazerac employees job.
I work for a distributor in WI that sells part of the Sazerac portfolio, including all of their allocated items. Your comment is spot on and perfectly sums up what is happening in the market. Great insight.
This was excellent information. I am going to add it to the video description.
@@BourbonRealTalk you should update the video with this information since you video makes it seem that RNDC lost the distribution rights due to inducements and that is not the case at all. It’s purely about money and the feeling that Sazerac can do the distributors job better in terms of marketing and sales. Time will tell.
@@1090ax I will do a follow up. Thank you for the recommendation.
Excellent breakdown. Key words "Fragmented distribution system"...I believe these smaller distributors are gonna be in way over their heads and have no idea what they signed up for. I'm predicting massive disorganization, strained relationships and revenue drops in Sazerac's future.
It’s nice to find some real talk about the products we love.
Glad to hear you appreciate the honesty in our discussions about bourbon. Do you have any suggestions for future topics you'd like us to cover?
I hate the whole system. Corrupt AF.
We need to overhaul liquor laws in the US.
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It's a massive problem, but I am not sure this does anything for the consumer. I can't tell you how many bottles of Whistle Pig I had to buy just to get a bottle of Blanton's. Why do I have to drive across 3 states to get an MSRP bottle of Eagle Rare instead of paying over double the price. $1200+ for a bottle of Pappy's is outrageous and it's to the point where people I know are quitting Buffalo Trace altogether because of it. Something has to change.
I don't think the main problems will go away until supply increases, and we are years away from that.
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Thanks for explaining this. So sorry about your brother, always so inspiring to hear about incredibly positive and life changing accomplishments that come from a tragic event. God bless
Thank you!
Do you think the states like NC will see more product? Pappy only appears at Christmas (presently) an it's one case for a county ..
1. No, there isn't more supply so I don't expect more availability.
2. Pappy is only released one time per year around christmas.
The answer is no. All of the bullshit that occurs is because of Sazerac. Distributors just add their own bullshit. 100% bet all of the old Sazerac account managers just hop over too. Hello new boss, same as the old boss.
We will see.
@@BourbonRealTalk been in the game a long time. Really nothing to see here, Sazerac will make the new distributor take on truckloads of Wheatley and Yukon Jack to sell to accounts.
Dead on!
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I was talking to an owner of a local establishment in Northwest Ohio. He said he just met with a representative from Sazarac. My initial question was about Pappy Van Winkle. He said stop in this week. Finding Pappy is virtually impossible, let alone Antique 107 or Eagle Rare. Just hearing that any of that is available at a Bar is exciting until you see the price.
Good luck! I hope he has a bottle for you!
@@BourbonRealTalk I doubt it would be a bottle, but just a pour would be nice.
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When it comes to price gouging, the Whiskey community has taken a page from the watch ⌚ community reality of the last few years.
Case in point; I'm going to use Rolex since everyone seems to know the brand but not necessarily the prices:
A new Rolex Daytona has a starting list price of $14,800. None of the brick & mortar A.D.'s have them in stock (supposedly). You have to put your name on a waiting list that may be 2 or more years out. Thus, many will go to the Gray Market (secondary) only to pay $26,000 or more for the same base watch.
What I find hilarious about all this (not in a good way) is that on the whole people that were living decent 2-3 years ago are basically living paycheck to paycheck trying to make ends meet. Yet, the gouging continues to get worse 🤔
The whiskey market is softening due to the effect the economy is having on people's budgets. Hopefully it works itself out without too big of a bust.
You failed to mention in your senario that the Rolex dealer is going to make you buy 2-3 less popular models for the privilege of buying that Daytona. Same thing the liquor distributors are doing with non allocated brands
@@ingresswizard9044 Oh yeah, forgot about "tiny" tidbit. Apologies - wouldn't want something like that left out getting people's hopes up higher than they should be 😂
This was really informative and loved the really positive ending. Couple of comments. 1) Who's to say in Texas(where I am), for example, that Glazer's won't pull some of the same shenanigans as RND did? We shall see. 2) Correct me if I'm wrong, but Texas is both 3 and 4 Tier systems. Maybe you are referring to how bars and restaurants get their liquor when you refer to it being 4-Tier. I do know that some bars and restaurants, at least in certain areas, have to go through a retailer like Spec's or Goody Goody. I wasn't aware that this was statewide. However, when I purchase from a liquor store, this has gone through 3 steps in the distribution process. Just wanted to clarify. Thanks for the great video...on to Part 2.
They didn't switch to Glazer's in any of the 29 states except for Alaska. They switched to mostly beer distributors who mostly provide logistics and not sales. Watch part two. It will clear things up.
Texas is a 4 tier state. Bars and restaurants are not allowed to buy from the wholesale tier. They buy from retailers who have a license to sell to them called a Class B license. That is what forms the 4th tier. When you buy from the retailer that is the 3rd step (1 producer, 2 wholesaler, 3 retailer).
@@BourbonRealTalk OK, so you were referring only to bars and restaurants. Gotcha.
the meer existence of distributors makes no sense.
Most companies would not want to duplicate the distribution equipment and infrastructure to get their products out, so large producers would still use a wholesaler in most states even if it was not required. The fact that it is required is what is messed up, and it gives wholesalers an incentive to charge more than market value for their services. It should not be required and producers should be free to hire someone at a competitive market price.
Alright so I may be able to chime in here. I work as a sales rep for a distributor who is getting Sazerac products and I used to manage the liquor department of a grocery store and worked with my reps closely and got regular bourbon. Sazerac controls allocations for bars, independent stores, and chains as well as grocery chains. The liquor chains can then distribute on a store by store basis based off what they want if they have a warehouse and self distribute from us distributors. All grocery stores are direct store delivery in this state so the regional buyer for the chain and the key account manager from the distributor will make a list of the stores that get these allocations. That said, the problem is the Regional managers would pick their “home stores” and tell all of management where to get the allocated stuff and they would buy them from the back room or a store manager would know a friend at a distributor and they would change the list and take allocations from the bigger stores and ship them to the smaller one. And that was a big problem at least in my state
Which state?
Wow!
As an RNDC employee, I can guarantee Sazerac switching won’t do anything at all for retail having more stock.
That is fair.
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Just subscribed. Good informative video! Looking forward to watching more. Thank you!!
Thank you !
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in my state I cannot even get any weller pappy blantons Im in south carolina very frustrating
Unfortunately there isn't enough to go around, but hopefully this change will cause there to be fewer games played with the inventory.
Thank you for clarifying this change. Heard about it this weekend and thought it would be big news. But nothing is out there.
Nice moves by the way!😆
I am releasing a follow up tomorrow. A bunch of new information has come out since I released this.
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So here in Wisconsin its very difficult to find Buffalo Trace product and when you do its way over priced. I walked into a local liquor store yesterday looking for a bottle of Buffalo Trace. To get a bottle of Buffalo Trace I have to buy it as a package deal with a bottle of Angles Envy. They wanted they wanted $90 for the package. All I wanted was the BT and they would not separate. I could buy Angels Envy solo at $49 off the shelf. Sucks I can drive 2hrs south and buy cases of BT but get over charged and limited to 1 bottle when we find it.
I think Saz will have more control over what stores get inventory, and I hope that helps with this issue. Cheers!
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I can't say whether or not I had encountered any trolls but, I have heard comments on some sites questioning my palette cleansing with either sweet iced tea with lemon or lemonade. For whatever reason, I find that the lemon refreshes the palette and offers the next sip (30 - 60 seconds later), a clean sample to enjoy. I understand that this might only be my own experience, so be it.
Everyone's palate is different. I personally think bourbon tastes better after using mint toothpaste. That makes a LOT of people mad😂
Thank you for providing this very valuable information to the rest of us. It helps put some "pieces" together and explain how all the distribution networks work.
I was a little disappointed that the resulting change isn't going to open up more availability for the products that a lot of us are trying to add to our collections, since I'm in MI. But the breakdown in information is helpful to "paint" more of a clearer picture. So thank you.
Glad it was helpful!
Where in MI? I'm in GR, looking for whiskey buddies.
@@danielkrudy2881 kalamazoo
@@micahdubas9454 Email is first 3 letters of my first name and last name at gmail if you want to compare notes. I work in Kalamazoo.
@@danielkrudy2881 upper or lower case D ?
Well RNDC is still kicking butt in Michigan I heard of this year ago but they still are getting Buffalo Trace and heaven Hill bottles and marking them up 3 to 4 times the MSRP this is 2024 October
Michigan is a control state, so I don't think this could be the case.
I don't mind paying more for BTAC and Pappy if it's from a small business, but "more" within reason. Inducements put their prices at $2-4000 here in GA. I'd pay double MSRP but 10-20X is insane.
I feel the same way.
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@@BourbonRealTalk yessir I watched it last night. Good info. Appreciate the update. Love this community!
Great video - love the positive message! Subscribed
Thanks for the sub!