Book of Abraham - Assumptions Matter
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ต.ค. 2024
- This video discusses how the Book of Abraham was produced and how critics use assumptions to attack the record which are not applicable.
HERE IS A DIRECT LINK TO THE TRANSCRIPT OF THIS VIDEO FROM THE WEBSITE
latterdaysaint...
Resources:
Please also see the resources under the ‘evidences’ video of the Book of Abraham
Books:
The Pearl of Greatest Price: Mormonism's Most Controversial Scripture - Terryl Givens
The Story of the Book of Abraham - H Donl Peterson
An Introduction to the Book of Abraham - John Gee
The Message of the Joseph Smith Papyri -An Eqyptian Endowment by Hugh Nibley
An Approach to the Book of Abraham by Hugh Nibley
Traditions About the Early Life of Abraham - John Tvedtnes, Brian Hauglid & John Gee
Chapters in the following books - No Weapon Shall Prosper, A Reason for Fatih, Shaken Faith Syndrome, Bamboozled by the CES Letter, The Threshing Floor of Faith
Lets Talk About The Book of Abraham by Kerry Muhlestein
BYU Studies Quarterly Volume 61, Number 4 (2022) was entirely dedicated to the Book of Abraham (authors: Stephen Smoot John Gee, Kerry Muhlestein and John Thompson) - it is 300+ pages and is a serious deep dive on the topic. Here is a direct link to the pdf of that publication (physical copy is available for order online):
byustudies.byu...
Podcasts:
LDS Perspectives Episode 97: The Book of Abraham with Robin Scott Jensen (co-editer of Joseph Smith Papers)
www.ldsperspec...
LDS Perspectives Episode 51: Joseph’s Study of Hebrew and the Book of Abraham - Matthew Grey
www.ldsperspec...
LDS Perspectives Episode 13: Jospeh Smith’s Papyri - John Gee
www.ldsperspec...
TH-cam Videos:
BYU Maxwell Instituted presentation by Robin Jensen & Brian Hauglid (JSP Editors) - ‘A Window in to Joseph Smith’s Translation’:
• Brian Hauglid and Robi...
Jensen & Hauglid at Benchmark Books when the JSP Rev & Translations Vol 4 was published:
• Robin Jensen & Brian H...
Terryl Givens - Translation in the 19th Century:
• Translation in the 19t...
LDS Church History - Book of Abraham Translation (with Robin Jensen):
• Bruce Porter on The Bo...
LDS Truth Claims - Episode 20 - Book of Abraham Part 1
• LDS Truth Claims 20: B...
LDS Truth Claims - Episode 21 - Book of Abraham Part 2
• LDS Truth Claims 21: T...
Fairmormon produced video on the Book of Abraham (‘A Most Remarkable Book - Evidence for the Book of Abraham'):
• A Most Remarkable Book...
Many Fairmormon conference videos available upon search
Ensign articles:
www.lds.org/st...
www.lds.org/st...
www.lds.org/st...
Church Website:
www.lds.org/to...
www.lds.org/st...
www.josephsmit...
www.josephsmit...
Other Websites:
www.fairmormon...
www.pearlofgre...
bookofmormonce...
interpreterfou...
journal.interp...
Joseph Smith Papers - Revelations & Translations - Vol 4, Book of Abraham: www.josephsmit...
Book of Abraham Project: www.atik.com.mx
Jeff Lindsay’s Mormonity Website: mormanity.blog...
The Book of Abraham is and will forever remain a part of our canonized scripture. I don't care what the naysayers say about it, it supports the Premortal Existence 100% and no one is taking that truth from me- no one. I believe that either the facsimiles acted as a catalyst for revelation or that the Book of Abraham came from the lost scroll(s). Either way, the book is here and we ought to learn what we can from it.
Thanks for sharing - the Book of Abraham does provide the greatest contribution in our understanding of our premortal life!
Joseph is a prophet - that’s good enough for me until God tells me otherwise
Thx for video. Book of Mormon is indeed the means to know the primary, the secondary will only then be understood.
Agree!
This has been incredibly helpful. Thank you brother
Thank you!
Thank you for this great explanation!
Another point or two to remember: Some are concerned that an "Egyptian" document would mention the writings of a "Hebrew" prophet. If the dating of the extant papyrus is approximately 200 BC this places the document 1. Well within the Ptolemaic Greek dynasty of Egypt and 2. Present Septuagintal times.
According to tradition and the letter of Armistead, Ptolemy II (Philadelphus 285-246 BC) commissioned the translation of Torah (the books of Moses) by Hebrew scholars into Greek for the great library and to serve the large Hebrew population already in Egypt at that time. This no doubt began the translation of additional Hebrew texts into Greek. We often forget or never learn how intertwined the whole ancient world was.
As to the source for the Book of Abraham, I tend to think it was on the long scroll described by witnesses cited by Rhodes and others, that was reported lost in the fire.
And Dr Muhlstein expands the point you touched about text not always being near an illustration which is supported by other texts that have been found and the intend evidence in the last phrase of Abraham 1:12, this editorial insertion, which would not have been needed if the text had been adjacent to the "illustration".
Frankly, the enemy wants us to be caught up in the irrelevant minutiae so we are distracted from the message of that inspired masterwork, The Book of Abraham, any Testament to the prophetic calling of Joseph Smith.
I love love love your videos. They are so faith promoting! I hope you will do more in the future!
Thank you so much!!
I'm reminded of this scripture in 1 Corinthians 1:
18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
It doesn't mean that we can't ever consider evidence when making our decisions- to the contrary, the scriptures encourage careful study of every issue we come across. But it does mean that when we receive a witness from God that something is true, we can't reject it based on the foolish learnings of men. If the Spirit whispers that the Book of Abraham is authentic, we don't say, 'But God... Facsimile 2 figure 3 doesn't match the current egyptologists' interpretation'.
Over time, God will prove that His works confound the wisdom of the wise, and will vindicate Himself in all things. Allow the research to catch up to revelation, and have faith.
Yawn-Orama is an awesome term! This is still a topic I want to seek personal revelation for.
I have studied this for many years. It is a shame that we don’t have the lost scrolls. Antis wouldn’t believe any less. In my humble opinion the papyri was used in sort of code so to speak so that Egyptians could understand the gospel more easily.
No matter what you present to anti-Mormon people, they will never accept anything other than a confirmation of their determined design.
At the end of the day, the question remains: Is it of God? Or is it of Satan?
If you read the Book of Abraham, does it entice you to do good? To serve God? To have more faith in Christ? To be a more dedicated disciple? Or does it move you away from God?
Why would Satan ever inspire something that causes people to shun him and cling to God and Christ? The only other avenue of thinking beyond this is the question if there is any god whatsoever. I've read the Book of Abraham many times, and I can tell you it's from God. Whether there were other scrolls, if the Prophet Joseph used the scrolls as a way to prepare his mind for this revelation, if it was through the Urim and Thummim, or Seer Stone, or through a vision or a prayer, it doesn't really matter as we are to test the fruits. In my experience, this is a good fruit, and it draws me closer to God.
@@jamesdurpington8619 I agree, nice though!
My question is then why is it that do this day in my brand new scriptures there is an official explanation? As a missionary I stared at and prayed to understand what I saw, I would use the explanations and try to understand it.
Go check out the evidences video I did on the Book of Abraham. There are actually a number of fascinating things that Joseph could not have known in his day that are in the explanations. Here is the link:
th-cam.com/video/_GLMLLf1ojY/w-d-xo.html
If you want more detailed information about each of the facsimiles, you can find a detailed list on fairmormon.org for each of the 3 facsimiles - here is a link:
www.fairmormon.org/answers/Book_of_Abraham/Joseph_Smith_Papyri/Facsimiles#Book_of_Abraham_Facsimile_1:_The_.22lion_couch.22_scene
And for an exciting new source - Book of Mormon Central recently started Pearl of Great Price Central and they are publishing items frequently, showing even deeper insights. The website is: pearlofgreatpricecentral.org
I like to think of these ‘evidences’ almost like God giving us a ‘divine fingerprint’ or ‘divine signature’ on this work - its a great offset to the scoffers of the day (which goes on top of the dramatic weakening of their argument when ‘inspiration’ is considered over translation).
I will share here the Elder Maxwell quote I read towards the end of this BOA answering critics video:
“It is the author’s opinion that all the scriptures, including the Book of Mormon, will remain in the realm of faith. Science will not be able to prove or disprove holy writ. However, enough plausible evidence will come forth to prevent scoffers from having a field day, but not enough to remove the requirement of faith. Believers must be patient during such unfolding” (Elder Neal A. Maxwell, Plain and Precious Things ,p4.).
Honest question: If Joseph Smith was just translating through the gift of revelation then why would he even need these artifacts then..i.e. Golden Plates and the Scrolls? From what I have researched he never actually even directly translated off of the Golden Plates and now your saying that he did not directly translate from the scrolls either. In that case it would seem that these artifacts were superfluous in nature? My question is then what was the purpose or usefulness of these artifacts? Thanks for the content.
This is a very good question. I believe that the plates were a very important aspect at the inception of the church for a number of reasons, but paramount of these reasons has to do with how the Book of Mormon was received by those who read it. This was to be the witness of the restoration, and it would not have been received as authentically if there wasn’t a physical artifact involved justifying this as a record of ancient history. It also gives credence to the literalness of the record, rather than just some made up stories by Joseph Smith. Without the plates the Book of Mormon couldn’t have been published from a financial perspective either - Martin Harris paid for the project, after having the experience showing copies of characters from the plates to scholars. Here is a helpful concise summary on the FAIR website of some things to consider on this question:
If there had been no plates, and Joseph had simply received the entire Book of Mormon through revelation, there would have been no Anthon visit, nor would there have been any witnesses. The very fact that plates existed served a greater purpose, even if they were not directly viewed during all of the translation process.
The plates served a variety of purposes.
1. They were viewed by witnesses as solid evidence that Joseph did indeed have an ancient record.
2. Joseph's efforts to obtain them over a four year period taught him and matured him in preparation for performing the translation,
3. Joseph's efforts to protect and preserve them helped build his character. If Joseph were perpetrating a fraud, it would have been much simpler to claim direct revelation from God and forgo the physical plates.
4. Joseph copied characters off the plates to give to Martin Harris, which he subsequently showed to Charles Anthon. This was enough to convince Martin to assist with the production of the Book of Mormon.
The plates' existence as material artifacts eliminated the possibility that Joseph was simply honestly mistaken. Either Joseph was knowingly perpetuating a fraud, or he was a genuine prophet.
Furthermore, the existence of actual plates eliminates the idea that the Book of Mormon was "spiritually true," but fictional. There is a great difference between an allegorical or moral fiction about Nephites, and real, literal Nephites who saw a literal Christ who was literally resurrected.
www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/answers/Question:_Why_were_the_gold_plates_needed_at_all_if_they_weren%27t_used_directly_during_the_translation_process%3F
Here is also a helpful video Saints Unscripted did on this topic:
th-cam.com/video/NZAmqah-ZPw/w-d-xo.html
With regards of how this would apply to the Book of Abraham - the artifact aspect also helped to associate the record anciently, but maybe more importantly helped to serve as a catalyst for Joesph to receive the revelation, in the same way that he received the Book of Moses, when reading Genesis during his inspired revision process of the Bible. Also remember the word translate in Joseph’s day, didn’t necessarily have the simple meaning we associate with it today. I talk about that for a few minutes starting at about the 2 minute mark in the video Understanding Book of Mormon Word Choice: th-cam.com/video/YwkWBSZdimY/w-d-xo.html
Do you think that the Jaredites, the Nephites, and the Lamanites are the North American mound building cultures?
I will refer you to the video I did entitled “Book of Mormon Evidences”; here is the direct link:
th-cam.com/video/A-Er7vanw6A/w-d-xo.html
And here is the official statement from the church on Book of Mormon geography: www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics/book-of-mormon-geography?lang=eng
I have a question do you get more negative comments then positive?
Overall, from the beginning, I would say its been significantly skewed to the positive over the negative
Great video. The Holy Ghost has told me The Book of Abraham is true. I don't need anything more than that.
The Egyptologists and the anti-Mormon crowd were debunked due to the assumption that Joseph Smith's translation/explanation of the Egyptian sensen text was supposed to concur with the translation from that of the Egyptological field. The Egyptologists were debunked in 2014 by one by the name of Paul Gregersen. This is basically where we're at with all of this.
p.s. I am certain that the Book of Abraham is true. It's good to know the Holy Ghost told you the Book of Abraham is true and you don't need anything more than that. I feel that it's additionally good to know the Egyptologists and anti-Mormons were debunked due to assuming Joseph Smith's translation of the Egyptian was supposed to match up with the translation from that of the Egyptological field.
Joseph translated the mood of Mormon and others through Joseph’s own command and understanding of English. I believe that Joseph Smith would not retranslate the 116 pages because it wouldn’t be exactly the same. His knowledge had increased during that time and his understanding had increased. The Book of Mormon would be more pure that it was when he first started translating it. Also I don’t believe he translated the Book of Mormon with the self stone. It was the interpreters he was given at first. Of course it doesn’t matter to me if he did use the seer stone but I don’t believe he did.
From your comment, I think you would find these 2 videos on the channel to be helpful:
“Understanding Book of Mormon Word Choices”:
th-cam.com/video/YwkWBSZdimY/w-d-xo.html
“Joseph Smith’s Seer Stone Culture”:
th-cam.com/video/Zpqn04MFqm8/w-d-xo.html