Are Modern Keyboard Switches Just Cheap Copies of The Original Cherry MX?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ก.พ. 2023
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These story-esque videos are awesome! They're a great change of pace from the usual review videos!
I'm glad you like them! I definitely enjoy these way more tbh
Its really nostalgic watching this video! I got into the hobby around the same time and dived really deep into switches. Crazy how far the hobby has come in just 3 years. It feels like the hobby has slowed down a lot and there isn’t a whole lot of stuff to talk about because the bar has been raised for switches and boards, and there’s so much variety now.
Awesome vid homie. I’m not lubing anymore. Picked up Gat pro yellows for a throwaway board and loved them. Then I got factory lubed Kiwis and loved loved them! My favorite tactile switch at the moment. I’m glad we’re heading in this direction as it makes it easier for new people to end up with a good build while people that love to tinker get to tinker to their hearts content.
Always a sucker for these history and fun informative videos! Good stuff!
One of my favorite videos from you dude! It's nice to know the history of the hobby and why the market is the way it is right now. Keep em coming! 🔥🔥🔥🔥
Dang I missed your videos. Loved how this was informative and easy to watch. Cheers!
Thank you for the kind words!
Another great narrative video with *valuable* information and guidance! 👍🏿
thank you!
I love the kailh switches mostly because of their lower pitched click sounds if you use the right case materials and keycap combo.
Thought the zeal clickies are my dream switch
Really enjoyed the historical overview of your green snakes video a while back, and I love this one. I sleep to your vids at night after work
OG viewer that's what's up!! lmao
I love the format of this video! As someone who has been in the game for a while, admittedly, I was a part of the whole Novelkey cream switch craze. But now, I really don't get caught up with the craze of new switches. I'm a simple person, my go-to switches are gat yellows or basically any linear that have a spring weight between 60 and 65 grams. Thank you for this upload, I feel this will be helpful for anyone coming into this hobby.
i'm with you there, i still use gateron inks, sp stars, nylon jwks
Man no mention of Akko? They have some cheap and very useable switches. Also Gateron Pro-Yellow are great, too.
Thank you! This was very informative
you're welcome!
Great video and killer advice!
thank you Mike!
Totally feel your exhaustion with reviewing switches! But i will say - its a really great time to be in the market for switches. There are so many options and tons of info out there. If you're looking for a new switch, i'd try to buy one that's well-liked from the last year. And always check the Theremingoat scorecards!!! He's never let me down.
Definitely can’t go wrong these days. But I prefer reviewers that put switches in keyboards
@@AndyVNguyen 👀👀👀damn Andy you came out swinging hahaha
@@coleydotmp4 time to get people into alps, buckling springs (OG + repro), beam springs (OG + repro), and non-contact switches like hall effect
@@ethur10n would love for manus to lean into that. would need to be compatible with everyone's existing keyboards though to really start a movement, i think.
@@coleydotmp4 there are repro beamsprings by ellipse on the way which are cherry mx mount. the h1-hera, wooting, and apt hall effect switches also use cherry mount. in fact, i reckon that in the next two years, we’ll start seeing a switch renaissance now that everyone is getting sick of the repetitive cherry mx blueprint.
Another awesome video - thanks for keeping it real for the consumers, like always!
At this point, a new switch is gonna have to be truly revolutionary to pique my interest. And considering my collection covers most material combinations or unique sounds (like cherry), I see no point in buying switches anymore, especially for aftermarket price.
i definitely feel that way, even the NK cream+ wasn't all that exciting for me. I was like... I can get that sound from a different switch, without opening it up. and if i didn't like the original sound, a small change in the internals isn't going to make me like the switch. i'd likely want a completely different switch.
@@AndyVNguyen it's time to move away from plastics and towards something crazy, then I might be convinced 👀
I got into keyboards before the pandemic too, and still remember how hard it was to buy switch lube... ended up buying a bunch of Tribosys 3203 and 3204 from SwitchKeys to practice lubing on my very first set of switches - Gateron Browns. Then lube became more and more available (thankfully), but now I have way too much Tribosys haha
i'm sitting on way too much 3204 also lol i never use it
When I started out in the hobby in late 2021 I kind of thought that Cherry and Gateron are outdated and other manufactures like JWK and KTT have surpassed them.
Fast foward to 2023 gateron pro milky yellow are my go to, they felt smooth enough that i used them on my daily board rather without lubing! Cherry are quite nice as well, but requires quite a bit more effort.
I might try out some ink black in the future, they seems quite promising!
As someone relatively new to the hobby, this was so interesting. Looking at switches now, there are so many options and yeah, a LOT of them do seem to be pretty good. But then you hear about Alpacas and Zakus and you're like.. are they really that great? Should I go back and find those? What are all the "recolors" people are mad about? Why are so many people still obsessed with Cherry Blacks? Anyway going through the history like this answered a lot of questions that I didn't even realize had been piling up for me, so thank you!
Alpacas were great, but nothing particularly special anymore. Most JWK/Durock switches use similar, if not the same, materials as alpacas but are different colours. They are cheap cash grabs because nothing is unique about them except the colour and a quirky name.
However, things are starting to change and newer switches by other manufacturers and even JWK are being made with different materials, types of springs, new dampening techniques etc. Most modern switches are a better value than alpacas.
As for MX Blacks: they are the OG cherry switch and provide a more classic sound compared to modern switches: very few switches can mimic the full sound of a cherry nylon housing, and even fewer mimic the scratch. Ironically, for the oldest MX-type switch still available, they are the most unique sounding. They are popular to people who are ok with/want to heavily modify switches with different springs, film, lubricants etc (breaking-in is also popular, but sacrifices sound for smoothnes imo). MX blacks on alu plates is a common trend because its the perfect combination to achieve a classic sound signature. They are too expensive for what they are though, and some speculate Cherry are price fixing
Alpacas aren't all that special because the same switch is available in other recolors with different springs. I still have mine that were lubed and spring swapped so I use them from time to time. That run of JWK switches started to get leaf ping very early on, so most people stopped using alpaca/h1/mauves because of risk of leaf ping.
Cherry MX Blacks have a nice clacky sound when paired with aluminum plates so people like that. It's the opposite end of the spectrum if you consider "thock" the deep sound.
Zakus are still pretty modern but you can get Tecsee Lake Blues for a similar experience.
Dude, awesome video
dude thanks for watching!
I think its intresting how we have a reached a point in which most are now informed enough and not too much in the hype of things anymore. Like the idea of needing a gmk key cap set, or needing 1 dollar switches. I'm so glad im in the hobby after 2020 because I would be in fully copium seeing how much better things have gotten for the consumer.
Where can I find the list of frankenswitches with descriptions shown in the video?
I have this feeling for quite some time. Once i bought cheap Kailh BOX Black and hand lube them, it becoms obvious, that every other switch (to extend ofc) is just not worth the money or time. It all comes down to type (linear, tactile or clicky) and spring. Every new-ish switch is very much great and even very similar.
New to custom keyboard December 2022 and this sounds about right. I don't want to go into lubing nor buying unnecessary things so this is actually pretty validating
Cap v2 brown since big tactile felt gross and tiring to me
Mt3 susuwatari on a keychron q6 and I'm done
Ah yes, the pc nylon pom classic, I now understand the recolouring thing having ordered some 10s of a few differently labelled switches to find so little differences in sound and feel.
it is both a good and bad thing! like if you want zaku you can get tecsee lake blues to get the same switch. but i got burned early on thinking mauves and alpacas would be different. they mislabeled the switch and it was actually a 1:1 recolor
This is great commentary and very informative. Feels like the hobby has moved away from dyi modding towards ‘buying the latest and greatest thing’.
i've been tired of the nonstop buying for a while now and i've been doing my best to isolate the things that matter from the sea of marketing noise. glad i could help!
I bought ink blacks back in 2019! I remember when they were considered one of the best lol. I haven’t purchased any switch since, but was wanting to build a new keeb. What linear switch would you recommend is the best?
I really like sp star meteor whites
C3 Tangies is still my favorite switch (even though I'm a long pole guy). But I'm using OwLab tungsten for now, I want that clacky sound hahaha.
There are so many switches that are good with factory lube nowadays: HMX, MMD, KTT, Gateron, JWK, TTC, SWK,… There are so many of them. What a good age we’re living in
Hey! I see you liked the stiffer dampeners on the geckos. I think you should try the Frozen Silents out from TTC, cause they actually did it first and they do it pretty well! I used em and i love em!
Maybe you'll too :)
I liked it enough to try my friend's
I don't like it enough to buy some more to try more lol
@@AndyVNguyen fair enough. I myself use ttc light clouds which have a more traditional soft dampener
Or outemu lemons
"Reduced travel like typing into a brick wall" YESSSSS! Why do more people not talk about this? Nice to know that I'm not crazy and not the only one who hates this trend. The reviews I see on reduced travel are overwhelmingly positive, but I think they're obviously ergonomically flawed. The exception would be silent reduced travel switches. Those would be like typing onto a pillow on a brick wall which would be fine.
Oooh the editing and and chill vibes of this video is v naice
My new board with Holy Panda Xs is cool and all, but I wouldn't describe the feeling or anything as being better than the two MX brown keyboards I used for all those years before. I just regard them as different.
Generally speaking, I'd say I still consider the Cherry switches to be the standard, or "gold standard", even. Like with gold, you don't have to like or dislike other things based on value. Variety exists for (niche) preference and some novel value. Nerds shouldn't be overly concerned about the trends (and gatekeeping) among other nerds.
Just build something you can love without ever needing to show another nerd for validation. Then share it with them anyway, and if they give you crap, fite them.
Damn, that was a lot of work, high quality editing, appreciate your content - despite being (again) the unfirst and unsecond to comment.
My lubed switches and Gat Oil Kings say no. I got a mystery set of red switches and have been reminded of the disappointment I got at the generic switches that used to be available after the patent died.
What’s the making of plastic case?
Moulded PC or CNC PC?
Thanks for the history lesson and some perspective
you're welcome!
realist keyboard reviewer out there haha so much of the market stuff is overrated and so much of the purchase is fomo-based but as far as the hobby keeps us alive and entertained 🤷🏻♂️
I try my best to
great vid
Best commentary in the hobby, full stop.
Love these vids man
There's even some great long pole prelubed switches out there nowadays that are as cheap as 0.28 per switch like the Feker Matchas. Sure, if you want perfect, you can touch up the factory lubing but for most people... do you really want to spend hours to get that extra 5-10%?
The fact that there's even prebuilts that have their own relubed long pole switches is great, it means the hobby is has more options than ever.
What I noticed is that the tolerances for all switches have gotten noticeably better and better. Horrible stem wobble is mostly gone in many budget options, you don't even need to film switches in almost all cases as the housings are already so tight.
a lot of discussion has been happening in my community that long pole switches basically normalize factory lubing better. so if the factory lubing isn't perfect, the long pole at least makes sure it sounds mostly good enough
definitely with you on the tolerances. films aren't needed in every switch anymore.
This is why tactile is king, you can actually feel and see the differences in switches. Hehehe 😜
tactile definitely has a lot more differences but my fingers just can't seem to enjoy them for long periods of time!
They are also easier to lube
It sounds like you're saying most linears you can buy today will be better than, e.g. Gateron Ink V1's (smoother, maybe also sound as good as?) Is that right? I tried to recreate the sound of your Ink V1's in your Skog Reboot (w/ silicone dampener), with the same exact build but instead with ink v2's, and feel like I didn't achieve it. Is there a switch you can buy today that you think comes closest to that sound?
honestly i think my v1's were heavily lubed so that might be the difference. otherwise i'd consider doing oil kings today instead. i love my oil kings on pom top mount.
@@AndyVNguyen Thanks for being so responsive to your viewers man, it's really awesome. Quick question, who is your go-to switch lubing service or individual at this point?
i freakin love this vid. i have no knowledge of history beyond the basics. when i try to watch review vids, i have no baseline of historical context to compare the newest switch/keeb/etc to. OK someone said a switch was cool and innovative but tf does that mean. thanks andy.
edit i just finished the vid and you called me OUT for only buying switches because they have nice colors and look like candy LOL
LMAO sorry about the colors and candy aesthetic callout
I remember when the alpacas came onto the market and everyone I knew went into an immediate craze for them, was an absolute pain in the ass to get them
definitely, and whenever i could get some i had to hoard. i still have a few more.
AND THEN THEY SILENTLY CHANGED THE MOLDS A BIT
so we had v1 and v2.. ugh
Russell Peters at the end lmao
Tried around 20 kind of switches, I keep coming back to cherry mx black HG (break-in, spring swap, deskey filmed, lubed). Any idea, what switch that feels and sound like HG black?
SP-Star Meteor White has my recommend.
@@huunhanle3809 sp star meteor white are nothing like hg black
@@r_se Sound and feel of switches are based on personals subjective. I didn't either confirmed or stated that SP-Meteor White sound/feel 100% exactly like HG Black, I just felt that they have similarity in term of sound and feel so I recommend the owner of the comment to try it.
"'The origin of all keyboard switches is Cherry MX. Everything else is a clone.' That's what purists will tell you."
Which is why purists can be dismissed off hand. Alps switches are contemporaries to Cherry (debuting in 1983), IBM capacitive buckling springs came out in 1981, with beam spring being some time in the 70s. Hall Effect came onto the keyboard market in 1960.
Anyone who acts like MX is the end all, be all does not need to be listened to.
Hell, Kail's BOX series has meaningful differences from the MX line, and their jade and navy line are some of the best clickies on the market. Oh, and there's nothing wrong with clicky switches, in case Taeha, Hipyo, Betty, or any of the other gatekeepers find this comment.
you lost me in the second half
@@AndyVNguyen He's basically saying that keyboard switches existed since the introduction of computers and that Cherry MX isn't at all the origin of keyboard switches. That's true. Alps switches were at one point direct competitors to Cherry, IBM Buckling Springs are still being made today through Unicomp, Beamsprings are currently being manufactured by an IBM enthusiast in the form of a modern reproduction, and Hall Effect / Analog technology are being incorporated into MX and Optical switches popularly through the Wooting and Razer keyboards. Keyboard switches in general is a rich history full of diversity and differences, so to say that Cherry MX started it all, arguably the most redundant switch out of the whole bunch, simply never research nor owned anything other than Cherry MX.
Zeal Clickiez is surpassed by Gateron Melodic now.
Short answer: Yes
Long answer: Yes
For anyone building tkl’S and you want to lube, Akko switches are a great value .
Akko, Jwick, and regular Gaterons are all so cheap and usable
Came for keyboard content, got smacked with a dose of Russel Peters “do the right thing” nostalgia.
How do you know if a switch is just a recolor of another switch
Geon blacks are zakus which are tecsee blue lake. The difference being the color and spring weight
Gazzew is my fav, any time I try other switches I regret spending money on them. Long pole tactile gang
so no one gonna mention the buffalo sauce lubing @8:58……
No, they're not cheap copies, Cherry just founded the base design for all other manufacturers.
The others took the design and improved on it.
I like my Cherry MX Browns (lubed), but I like my Gateron Oil Kings much more.
Gateron is hard to get over here in the Netherlands though, so you'd typically pay 1.5x the price over in the US, but in Euros.
Oh btw, stock browns are eew, but I lubed mine; stem, housing and spring.
Stock they have a fuckton of spring ping when being released. Fun at first but becomes obnoxious after a few months.
Especially in a aluminium plate, they ping loud and proud lol
I wonder if stabilizers have the same rich history as switches do
I actually am the guy who bought the switches shown at 3:56. It probably wasn't worth it lol
So like what's the zaku alternative cause theyve sold out like everytime and I just wanna try some long pole power
Tecsee lake blue is almost 1:1 the same, Geon black or emogogo linear or Penyu for other options
Boba LT are pretty good too.
Geon blacks are also made by tecsse, so they should sound similar and are the same price as first hand zakus
@@AndyVNguyen good to know thanks
@@AndyVNguyen I'd say the biggest confusion is not everyone advertises as a long pole for example I would have never known the lake blue was long pole because they don't make it obvious in the divinikey listing. So I'd just go buy the zaku for more than retail
Is no one gonna talk about him lubing a switch in some sauce?
Man, Gateron KS3 milky top yellows are still my favorite linear. I don't care if they're a "cheap" switch.
the buying guac at chipotle line killed me, it really is a ripoff! I feel like to me spring swapping has been what’s brought me the most meaningful change in feel for linear switches from my own experimentation. The 20+mm multistage springs feel great imo. For tactiles, I feel like there’s more nuance around the feel of the bump.
so you like that poppy snap back! once you figure out what spring you like, you don't ever have to worry about it again. there have been some tactile misses, such as the blueberries. double stage bump? can't use lighter springs? gg
@@AndyVNguyen oh interesting! I hadn't heard of the blueberries previously, I would not think that two tactile bumps would feel good! I've become more of light to medium tactile enjoyer, I enjoy the Bolsa Corsa switches and the SP Star Meteor Oranges (which are very light). I've used Boba U4Ts / Durock Sunflowers, and they're too fatiguing for me personally.
Imagine when the patent for alps skcm runs out
i didn't know there was a patent for that! i personally haven't used alps switches much
@@AndyVNguyen there is, and thats why companies like matias or zeal cant just do a 1 to 1 replica of the OG blue alps
Geckos were my first switch and I feel like I fluked into S-tier.
You can try to influence me all you want. I still prefer Cherry MX Blue and use it in all my keyboards.
Live your life, Christina! Rip your roommates lmao
❤❤❤❤
ty ty
The tarkov pcb xD
Me crying with over 40 different switches in my collection with 100pcs per. I need to sell some of them off..
Not me gettting into the hoppy late and buying literally every switch i can get my hands on. Probably about 5k spent on switches in 3 weeks.
Cheap, no, Copy, yes. Cherry was the best for so long, even after the patent expired it wasn't until 2019 that other switches were really any good.
I dunno, Gateron's been making smooth switches for a while before that, part of what made them a great option for mid-range gaming keyboards (even for cheaper keyboards until Outemu started at least putting SOME effort into making better switches).
As for the copy thing, Kailh is at least doing something ELSE with their BOX series, particularly their Box Royal and their click bar series.
In all seriousness the Clickiez are the supreme clicky switch.
they honestly kinda are
but they're really easy to break when you switch configurations
Me being attack for no reason eating Chipotle while watching this video coincidentally
but it was good tho yea?
common andy W
Don’t forget! novelkeys just released their newest Cream+ stem swap switches. Not gonna lie. It’s some wicked fun tech changing the sound of a single switch. Even though it means you HAVE to mod switches. It’s still fun!
you're probably the only person ive seen come out and say a lot of switches out there are downright clones of each other but with a different name and color, i can't say i like that because it just floods the market with unnecessary shit and makes choosing seem overwhelming
yeah it's really hard and sometimes they DO change the plastic breakdown a LITTLE bit but you never really know if it's significant enough. or they'll do the same name and change the materials
but i guess cherry backs on alu never gets old.
it definitely can get old, it's too sharp sometimes. i just desoldered mx blacks off of alu lol. but i do miss the spacebar a bit tbh..
i think my cf plate is kinda wack so the spacebar doesn't sound great. i swapped from mx black on alu to sp star on cf so yeah. i also don't love just changing the one switch for the spacebar if i can help it, too much cheatingg
So the entire video was just to promote Gateron's new Gekko Silent switches hahaha
Lmao it just happened to be what I had in hand and was cool
@@AndyVNguyen it’s was cool nevertheless, enjoyed the video!
@@AndyVNguyen Is that the switch you refer to near the end of the video as suitable for a office or shared space?
i would say so!
@9:00 *lost in the sauce*
It's only worth lubing switches if they're NOT factory lubed. JWK are excellent budget switches.
Not true at all. There are plenty of switches that are factory lubed that benefit from lubing them yourself.
jwk arent budget they're 9 cent switches sold for 65 cents. jwick are kinda budget.
@@figgletinkle 25 cent isn't super cheap. you can get 8 cent greetechs from china. even cherry used to be 20 cents a pop before they got greedy.
@@figgletinkle good except for the springs. tolerances are fine too. other things like smoothness aren't directly dependent on price just on how old the tooling is. markup is huge (think 10x) on most switches and ppl just eat it up without questioning it. jwick pricing should be the norm not "budget".
CLOOOOONNNNEEESSS!! OMG!!!!! Support the artist!
Maybe the keyboard hobby is a meme clone
Even cherry switches are cheap versions of cherry switches. Now that keyboards are popular it's time we all move away from cherry and onto any improvements that are made via other switches.
these are cool.. I'm lazy got a k55 for 50 bucks and called it a day
I mean they are all clones but that isn't a bad thing because the clones are better than the original
Switch anti-hype is the new wave
let's goo
I agree with most of your video except the last part. These is no freaking way that any “new” switch is as good as a well broken in and hand lubed Vintage Black. I’m sorry it’s just not possible, if you think that’s true then you have never taken the time to really perfect Vintage Blacks… Try one of my boards and it will change your life “ If you think new switches are just as good as vintage blacks “ …… Also I absolutely love Alpaca’s and have V1’s in several of my boards but you can’t deny that they have a little bit of a “Marble” sound to them that doesn’t exists in any Cherry switches regardless of super smooth no scratch Vints or stock hyperglides
I agree with most of your video except the last part. These is no freaking way that any “new” switch is as good as a well broken in and hand lubed Vintage Black. I’m sorry it’s just not possible, if you think that’s true then you have never taken the time to really perfect Vintage Blacks… Try one of my boards and it will change your life “ If you think new switches are just as good as vintage blacks “ …… Also I absolutely love Alpaca’s and have V1’s in several of my boards but you can’t deny that they have a little bit of a “Marble” sound to them that doesn’t exists in any Cherry switches regardless of super smooth no scratch Vints or stock hyperglides
Thanks for the copy pasta
THE MUSTARD LUBE WTF
Dogege first
Wat da hail?
@@JosephBayote :dogegeping:
Cherry switches are cheap copies of the original Cherry MX… so…
just buy a lenovo office keyboard, it just werks.
Absolutely love these talking head videos from you Andy. Keep up the fantastic work!
i definitely enjoy making these types of videos the most!