I recently learned not to parry everything thrown at you. Just blocking normally is good to. I use to always try to parry (still get those moments) but blocking normally for me works out just as good. I survive longer and the spam doesn't seem to be much of a factor.
Yeah I’m still trying to break the habit of trying to parry all lights lol I just need to block the spam and wait for the right time to parry once I catch on to their pattern. Because there’s always a pattern in someone’s spam you just gotta catch on to it.
I was about to mention that shugo game. That was just painful, and I want to say it was awful, but like... He just didn't do anything to try and stop him.
@@thedarkprince6 try some more feints, don't dedicate to anything particularly punishable (if the shugo is playing cheap, do the same), use his bash for the love of god, out range the bash with a read & punish, ect. Their are many ways to deal with it, even if they are not particularly fun. Hmmmm, sounds familiar...
When it comes to light spam, it is a genuine problem on old gen consoles. You cannot say it's just "some guy with shity wifi, terrible input delay, and a two decade old TV that has issues with it" because it's not. I played on a monitor with a wired controller and someone ELSES McDonalds wifi would render me helpless against their ability to mash RB. My solution was ultimately fixed when I got a PC, but you cannot ignore the fact that consoles are the biggest part of the playerbase. Not sure if it is still the case but there was a time where old gen consoles were the majority and the thousands of old gen console players who rightfully complained about how strong lights were got swept under the rug because YOU play on PC.
This. The devs have done nothing but cater to PC players for years, even though THEY were the ones constantly bitching & moaning about how trash this game is, & constantly claiming that it's "dead" for YEARS. Yet we, the ones holding them afloat, just get left to sink into obscurity.
@@amememachine8974 the console excuse is still an excuse because we have to block attacks, the indicators of which dont show up until 100ms after the attack started, with an additional 100ms input delay. It's very much so a problem, and a reasonable excuse. It's gotten so bad that I can literally only play through predictions. I've completely given up on reacting(even on heavies) because going off prediction is much safer. Source:am also on an old Gen ps4 ("only" since bp release tho)
@@amememachine8974 sorry if im not playing all sweaty 24/7. A game is about fun and having to constatly sweat just to parry some light is annoying and way to hard for what it is. Its like what 24 damage for a light parry and a light is like 12 damage. But anyway i know that i should get better too and im wasting my time here.
My problem with light spam is sometimes once I get hit by one of their lights the game doesn't let me block the other lights in their chain. I'll move my guard over and I'll get hit through it, doesn't matter if it is kensei orochi or any others.
thats a mix of differrent characters having differrent hit stun and characters having recovery, but also can go back to the point of not having a good enough setup. if you still have old controllers for xbox one or something like that then your inputs are delayed, ect
Yep. Especially kensei. And they usually have 60+ ping. I once ate 5 heavies in the same direction and just...ate them all as if blocking doesnt even exist
Yea also had something like this happen to me quite often... especially if the players against you have high ping. I usually am able to deal quite well with light spams but damn. Had one Glad against me yesterday that had his ping going up and down between 35-410 ms. He only spammed lights and sometimes i wasn't even able to react to it because he had already hit me without any indicator or the indicator came for a brief moment after i was hit. I experienced a lot of Ping spikes (if on purpose or not) and in my opinion they really are a problem in this game. Most of the time when i get hit through a block it is related to some guy who has a 100-400 ms ping who is playing a character who has really fast lights.
This is actually the reason I fell in love with For Honor, spending hours mastering hero’s and playing the hero I suck playing against to learn their move set and then countering them later. It was all a giant mind game. Thank you Freeze, for making me a better player. I learned what an option select was like a year ago (because of you), I taught myself how to light parry, I taught myself how to feint, and I even play the tutorial/story mode. I had no friends to play with and I was putting time into this game by myself until I started watching you. I appreciate the videos and I appreciate the bluntness, everyone should have to hear what you had to say today. For anyone wondering: I play PS4, I have 176 reps, my highest rep character is a rep 20 Warden (unfortunately), I main Shinobi (for fun). Edit: not sure what the fuss is about, I’m pretty sure light attacks are NOT supposed to be react-able anyway (yes, you can block or predict parry), that is why light attacks do less damage now? Regardless if I play console, regardless if there are light spammers, if you predict parry and get a good heavy in, that will lead to your chain, then you read your opponent. I don’t see what is so hard about that…
I'm on console and I can't react to light spam but I can predict it sometimes. But even though I can parry 1 out of every 4 lights I'm still taking a lot of damage from the other three. And if the enemy is someone like Kyoshin then they have a dodge attack and a crushing counter to save them from getting hit from my attacks so that they can continue throwing lights. It's also unfair to say someone is worse than a light and dodge attack spammer because they can't predict or react to it because there is also frame advantage and recoveries from trying to optimize damage that give the light spammer the advantage. Also trying to use mixups to defeat an opponent that is using a single move doesn't make them worse than them.
You see, to stop someone from "light spamming" you just need to block and steal back your turn by mashing, you don't have to read noir parry.. SO NO frame advantage are on the defender side against light spam..
What about annoying/ boring to deal with spam? Dodge spamming can be countered with feints then parry....but the game just becomes a three input tedious task. Yes, some do complain about spam because it is effective against them, but personally it's just about being able to PLAY a game and not pressing 3 buttons.
Yeah, countering dodge attack spam is boring as hell. Maybe they should add more gb vulnerability to dodge attacks so you don't get punished for trying to counter them
this right here. Spamming becomes annoying and its even worst when you try to make your opponent adapt but they dont and keep doing the same thing. The game becomes really boring and stale. I play a fighting game to fight, not to press 3 buttons over and over again because someone decided to play like a toddler and I am NOT a babysitter.
I agree. This video can be summarized as "just win lol" when winning isn't really the issue. The issue is the game just becomes an absolutely horrendous slog when someone refuses to do anything but say, press dodge attack on red. I'm more concerned about the new player experience, because for anyone that doesn't have like 200+ hours and doesn't watch like deep dive tutorial videos, the game is just not gonna be fun.
Literally the same. I think this guy can't be that much of a moron that he will attempt to zone on red for the 6 time in a row... And he does. I just think to myself some people are smarter than that, but I assume wrong. Everyone's a dumb ass.
So, let me get this straight, when I get hit left/right over and over on console for honor and can't actually guard because of both recovery delay *and* a complete gearswitch of an input spam just to live, *it's my fault*. Sure. I'll just check out when you play a game that has genuine flaws that lead to unstoppable strategies and call you at fault for it. Or how about we go down right now to every card game in existence and tell them "pot of greed, draw infinity cards" are perfectly fine and balanced in ranked, judged matches. And for the final nail in the coffin why don't we say hi to the Paralympian demographic and tell them to "Just compete in the Olympics". Because sure, you can be bad at a game and be punished for it with fair due punished, but you can also just get whipped for just trying to play when there's an in-built tumor of a strategy that specifically works against the system to the point where it breaks the continuity of just playing how you're supposed to.
yeah i´d say its your fault for buying a technically inferior version of a gametype that relies on fps. and besides watch this again 4:18 you filthy casual
@@xVallan and what if he didn’t buy an inferior version? I hate when casual is used as an insult, it’s definition is “relaxed and unconcerned” which is the exact opposite of what he is right now, he’s trying to play casually but can’t relax or be in a good mood because brain dead assholes keep coming at him by spamming the same attacks over and over again, and now he can’t even enjoy the game This is a similar experience I have in every online game I’ve ever played, PvE games are boring as hell nowadays, that’s why online games took over, but it’s beyond infuriating when we have to spend hours just trying to get better at a game so we can get out of the hellish low ranks and away from the brain dead morons, just so we can enjoy ourselves Casual is used as an insult, but how is it insulting to treat a game, LIKE A FUCKING GAME? You using casual as an insult makes you sound like a tryhard, which honestly, is worse than a casual, watch what you say
@@logeyperogi1805 so in other words you don´t want to put effort into a competitive game and are surprised you get anihilated by every bullshit no-brain method thrown at you and are so far up your own ass that you think games that are meant to have a learning curve should cater to your needs. But oh boy do I have a solution for you: don´t play games that require your time or effort, try CoD. you goddamn casual
okay but 400ms lights on console are pretty hard to counter, I just feel like I have to try a lot harder than my opponent when they just light spam, but what do I know I’ve only played for 2 months
My biggest issue with spam is that the skill of the game's playerbase varies so much you can't always be sure if you're next opponent will spam at you or not. For me, when they do and I get used to it, sure I can beat them - but I don't learn anything, I don't improve. Fighting someone who spams dodge attacks and gets punished for it constantly, or spams guardbreak and never changes up their approach doesn't give me the same kinda challenge. And if I'm not challenged, I'm not forced to adapt; and that kinda match makes me feel bored and indifferent even if I win.
While I fully agree with what you say, there are some moves and characters that are too broken to counter most of the time such as highlander or shugoki. Highlander can be played like spam or be played normally, so when most people are constantly light spamming, you most likely will not be prepared when you find one that plays him normally because your brain will want to try to react to an indicator with a light parry.
This shugoki gameplay looks like the kind of shit I'd try to pull of just to see if I could. Honestly props to the dedication to that single move per game.
Being able to admit to yourself that you're not good at this game is the first step to improving at it, it lets you know where you currently stand. With that said I'm nearly rep 50 with warden that I've only played since year 2 and I'm very bad at this game, but this game is extremely fun.
Same im rep 45, took about 20 losses in a row and admitted I might just b bad, took a tiny break, and started experimenting ways around spam and cheese, can't say I've been winning more but I've been getting pretty close, there's always a way around a offensive mechanic
For Honor does also have a problem I think with button inputs, like on PK you have to time her stabs. This I think messes me up a lot, and I do get frustrated because my buttons dont do what I want them too, when I press them.
I mean yeah, objectively speaking you’re like completely right. I always want to improve and learn from my fights and sometimes I’ll get annoyed and complain but once I take a breath, I remember it’s my fault for losing to whatever beat me and I gotta learn to beat it and I usually do. Learn from your losses or be stuck.
The thing I most hate about for honor is the zero gb vulnerability dodge attacks like kensei, whenever I'm versus someone with one I can never do a chain heavy or zone mix-up because of the threat the move existing has I can normally parry people when they spam it but it makes fights super boring
That's the thing, he didn't give a solution just complained. For the record you should: Load the Moveset in the training arena then practice blocking and parrying. Change to a character that has an effective counter (not going to win with HL against a bash spam conq) Learn about frame advantage, guaranteed punishes and when you can be aggressive. Keep control of the fight, if you are letting the opponent control the pace you have already lost.
I think this video applies to the PC version (which was our console version before CCU). While I do agree that whining about losing on PC is dumb, it's a whole different story on console. I have been playing this game since the release of Aramusha and i'm not boasting when I say I'm very experienced (was Diamond V in ranked). My biggest issue with the game is how they made it so accessible and easy for everyone. Now there's no need to think or try at all to defeat someone. I've spent a lot of time mastering every character in the game for years... just to get to the point where you're beaten by a spam of a single button... I may sound like a total prick but this stays true. The console version is a scrub-fest now and I feel robbed.
The issue is that beating the light spam is either locked behind making unfavorable reads out the ass or being genuinely gifted in reactions, always been an issue with fh is that the genetic lottery wins u the game. Personally i can counter lights on reaction on old gen console, but thats because i have relatively above average reactions and about 2k hours in the game that i spent to practice. Light spam in itself is not strong its when players also have half a fucking brain and use lights that you cant react to, in their favour.
@@Oznerol1234 Well... now everyone plays the same. We all are now equalised. There's no way to distinguish a newbie from a skilled player... everyone just lights and dodge attacks.
@@ryanbackus5692 lots of misinformation You can simply dodge light chains, Aswell as frame advantages existence Its simply inefficient to spam even against someone who can't react, Assuming they use the in built "anti spam" mechanics to their advantage
It's just the annoying argument where 1/3 complain they can't react to something, 1/3 complain about people that can't react whining, and 1/3 trying to raise a different point and issue only to be met with "it's your fault you die". Kensei dodge has the worse discussion around it, where some complain about countering the move like it's a "win button", which causes justified flak being sent against that argument, but dismisses people looking to question if the move has too much coverage, is too easy to use or isn't heavily punished enough, which have an actual discussion to be had but it's shut down quick
It's the hill I will always die on. Just remove the hyper armor follow up and Kensei's dodge attack will be more in-line with the other dodge heavies. At the moment it's not worth doing anything other than a parry and a free light. And if they're a dodge spammer Kensei, you can only feint > parry > light the entire fight or you die. It's not hard, just mind numbing to not get to do anything else against them.
@@Jordan-subj In my opinion, the problem isn’t necessarily countering his dodge attack, it’s the fact that: A. It only nets a light, which really draws the fight out, and B. On a hero without undodgeables, it counters every option apart from feint to neutral, you let the UB fly? The DA hits you, you feint to GB? The DA has I-Frames, you feint to light? It still dodges the light (unlike option selects that can be countered by this). Your only choice is to feint to neutral and parry, and that’s not hard to do at all, just so unbelievably boring and kind of negates the point of a moveset for some heroes.
@@nero457 Yeah that's what I was saying too. I don't like that he has a "get out of jail free" card with that dodge attack, but I also don't want to nerf it so much that it's completely useless. That's why I think the best compromise is removing the hyper armor follow ups.
you know you actualy opend my eyes a little, i do complain aloot but its mostly because i am annoyed. its just a vent i dont expect people to take me serious to save my keyboards life
I agree with most of what you say, however I question your take on the “shit wifi,shit monitor” point. Some people can’t afford a brand new monitor. Maybe some people live in a house that only has 1 Ethernet port, and the people living with you can’t be arsed to have a cable running across the house. I feel that you kinda took a shit on the people that are in this situation.
"Spam is not a problem" I was with you untill then but yes it is indeed a problem, spammable moves like bashes are way too easy to use, way too common and the worst of all is that it drains stam which makes playing against it extremely infuriating and unfun. The other one is heavy dodge attacks with low GB windows, which are most of them, i can hard feint 99% of my moves but why should i even bother playing when thats half of all im going to be doing? Its not fun its not engaging and the least they could do is make those a light parry so if i face one of these annoying players i dont have to sit there for what it feels like eternity! Not to mention the problems of stalling when thats the case... So yes Freeze, IT IS A PROBLEM, not in the way you think as "boohoo i died to a kensei who dodge attack 39 times in a row" but in the sense that it makes the game boring and stupid, its depressing, its frustrating, why should i waste my time jumping back into the game when thats borderline all im going to see? Thats just missing the point, im just saying... good vid overall.
@@torrentarrow9097 yeah... even that i would be fine with if werent for the fact that it drains my stam which essentially removes my ability to attack on top of all the hood perks pf having those bashes.
Due to the nature of the game i understand peoples frustration with "spam". Getting spammed by a prior bash when you play a character without a good enough dodge attack to punish it, or running out of stam and literally dying because of stam pausing lmao letting characters dodge attack out of chains relentlessly is such a tedious process to chip them down for a 12 damage punish over and over again
The best advice I can give to players struggling against spam is to start saving up money to improve their set up. I did and got a series s and a nice monitor and practiced in training a bit and I rarely get hit by lights that aren’t confirmed anymore
Ah yes, because in order to actually enjoy playing my 60 dollar (or free depending on when you joined) game, I need to spend 300 dollars. _Just because I can't switch over to PC without my nearly 6 years of For Honor gameplay grinding itself into dust._
@@domclement9638 That sum is slightly above than what I earn a month. So yes, if I stop eating, paying for electricity, internet, water and the like, then I'd be able to improve my set up... Guess I'll play in the dump or something.
@@b2modby if you cut out some of your unnecessary expenses for just a short while, you’d be set. You could also just get a loan and only have to pay a small amount ($50-ish) each month until everything is completely paid off. *Surely* you can afford that?
I love how blunt and straight to the point he is The way you talked about this is perfect as some who complained about light spam I do punish them for doing it but you always have that one stubborn person who would keep doing it until it works which is sad to see wasted potential on one trick that can be counter with a few options but good vid ether way you earned a sub
The only thing that was rlly anoying was shugokis Hyper armor Lights but theyre long gone (Since a light with hyperarmor like cmon xD But well i parried it like 50% of the time sooo i couldnt care less)
@@Kitsune_Chara_CG I mean highlander exist with the amount of ppl who same with him I rather play conq and sit there waiting for them to swing than Parry
I need to get better at timing, I react too fast and try to parry the second I see the red indicator, plus I don’t just block half the time, I almost always try to parry
I like this video. This video remains me of a kid in For Honor 2 years ago and he told me that "to beat a spammer is to be a spammer yourself." and he also said, "When in doubt, be a spammer."
@@tacoking1333 You after seeing my joke: "I did it boys, I don't have a sense of humor." I was making a joke. I already knew what the point of the video is. "If you are falling for light spam, it is your fault for not being good enough at the game to beat it."
I agree and disagree. Spam is something that exists in literally every fighting game, but spam too effective or too strong is actually a balancing issue. Dash r1's are pretty balanced fast but dangerous when thrown with reckless abandon, but characters literally designed to have just 50/50's for their entire kit can reasonably annoy people. Also "this generation of gamers" have the same exact issue as every other "generation of gamers" good players find ways to adjust and learn new strategies, mediocre players struggle for long periods of time or never adapt and complain. There are plenty of videos of even the old halo days of people being salty and complaining, it's not brand new at all, didn't start with this generation and definitely won't end with this generation. Otherwise id agree overall that spam is a relatively small issue in For Honor especially for veteran players.
the logic of spam is that anything and everything can spammed to an extent. The part where spam becomes an issue is that there is relatively no risk but can net large rewards. Light spams, dodge spam even bashes and unblockables can all be punished, and sometimes nets large rewards if read correctly. It's the bashes that have little recoveries, or unfavorable matchups that end up being spammed because its more rewarding than simply being better at the game. Why learn BP's large moveset when you have the safest/ease of use bash in the game and only 2-3 characters can even effectively punish it.
@@mustysmells817 Yeah I was looking for a comment like this. BP has a huge move set but people only spam the bash and chain bash. Most characters in the game cannot punish it. Shit like that is stupid and should be punishable by every character, not just a select few.
Even good player complain when the game completely does a 180 in gameplay after spending years mastering an entirely different game style. Marching fire and Ccu made alot of pros leave
It's definitely not the player getting spammed fault when the frames are shorter than the human ability to react to , combined with input delay and lag. Get real. That's why I put the game down , because the frames changed and now I actually can't react to certain things no matter how much I see it coming. All the time I put into getting more skilled was made moot by a single update , suddenly spammers were clapping my cheeks all over again. If I played PC I'd probably still be on the game. But console is cursed.
@@jonathancarpenter2336 look most fighting games have animations that are more easily readable because the animations are longer or if it is 2D they can draw it a way that is easier to understand but I mostly play tekken I am a king player the guy that looks like a cheetah
On top of that. It’s much more gratifying to learn how to use a spammers spam against them, (hence: feint heavy a kensei who spams dodge heavy into parry) and learn from your mistakes. This reminds me of the first time I played Sekiro and got shit on by the low level enemies. It takes mental effort to assess your mistakes and improve, it’s much easier to monkey brain and beat chest demanding change.
Ok but like it’s not my fault if I lose to a BP that gets 80% of their damage from a bash. It’s worth spamming because it’s unpunishable for most heroes. The stamina pause and drain keeps BP in a good spot and makes OOS easy.
BPs bash is punishable, just not with GB unless on super early dodge iirc. Tbh I still fucking loathe this stupid aids character but using a dodge attack on read will punish BPs bashes pretty much all the time. Some top level players like Barak can pretty consistently react to BPs bash and punish it too. While his complete lack of recovery was incredibly egregious in the past when most heroes didn't have dodge attacks, these days it's much less of an issue. Any hero with a 600ms or faster dodge attack can regularly punish BPs bashes. If the move was punishable with a GB it would totally turn the risk/reward out of BPs favor. The rest of the character is still incredibly boring and pretty overtuned defensively though, but his bash recovery is almost a non issue now that most characters have a dodge attack capable of punishing it and other similar moves.
@Hardev Singh yeah people are so thirsty for kills that in dominion when I’m 1v1ing someone and we’re low some random orochi pops out of nowhere and executes me cause my low then they run away like the little shit they are.
I mean I’m sure this is true on pc and next gen, but being a long time old gen player I just don’t really agree, not as much with dodge attack, heavy, gb, and bash, but with light spam and using a character like gryphon. Majority of the time lights spam is predictable, but if it’s a character with chain hyper armour lights, then there’s not much I can do, I can only read so much and the inability to react as well exacerbates this problem. Kensei embodies this problem for me. I’ve come to terms with it, and tbf, lots of the ppl I play against are good players who don’t do it, but it’s still infuriating playing against a light spammer who knows what they’re doing I don’t think our community is terrible, most ppl get angry in the moment and mellow out, and I have fun and wholesome moments more than annoying ones.
I play exclusively on old gen atm. And I have an issue with this comment. First of all, gryphon is a mediocre hero after his nerf and his lights are 500 ms and don’t have hyper armor. Kensei only has hyper armor on his light finisher. Even at low frames lights are actually reactable on a blocking and parrying perspective. Not every light you block is prediction, not every light that hit you was unreachable either.
How to counter: Dodge attack spam: Anticipate it then feint then parry/GB Bash spam: Anticipate then dodge or light (if they spam you know they'll do it again so you can anticipate) GB spam: Anticipate then light, or stop dodging/parrying Light spam: Anticipate then use frame advantage to light in return! The key word is Anticipation, and knowing the mechanics to counter!
And timing. I've anticipated kick/sweep/hug spam many times but I either dodge too soon (for hug spam) or too late (for kick/sweep spam). Frames matter!
@@shirishvogga6046 Frame advantage is a thing, it was introduced back in the CCU all that time ago, it depends on the type of attack and the hero but basically some lights are faster than others, someone will bear your light if your chain ended in one, etc, etc, that’s where the wait your turn or respect the other person’s turn came, cause if you just mash the light button you’ll probably just end up loosing due to frame advantage
Trigger warning at the start made me laugh unreasonably loud. But back on topic, it really does sadden me about our community. While new player complaints are prevalent in any fighting game, I've never seen more people just complain and deny improvement guides or help. Anyone can improve if they really just put the time to it and a lot of people are willing to help people improve, but some people just prefer to catered to. It's why I found the Gryphon monke meme funny at first, till people decided to just do that instead of y'know, deal with his moveset. Regardless, I really enjoy your attitude of saying things as it is and not sugarcoating, and I feel it's sorely needed in our community. Keep up the work fridge :D
Its like this in any game. The people you refer to are called "casuals" and they simply refuse to learn and improve. And it seems like those people are the majority in gaming community which is the reason the devs are making games as casual-friendly as possible. Because an average consumer is a potato. Thats pretty much it and theres nothing you can do about it.
@@fortytudo I TS not t Casual it's th e common gamer. Most people don't live of playing games like he does. Imagine playing about t 2 hou RS of for honor daily and one update changes everything to and forces you to Adapt to really frame perfect inputs
@@gabrielantunez7642 I've just had my first game on in a year and its not that hard to block and parry. Stop overreacting the game aint that different at all and its fairly forgiving for timing you just want a reason to complain
The problem is not that expirienced players can counter it and the spam is not effective anymore. The problem is that spam is easely made and for someone that starts out its extremly hard to learn anything from it when you die in 10 seconds everytime and have no chance to learn anything. The annoyance comes faster. I can see that many people quit the game because of this frustration and no work around so i throw the ball back to you. If you say they all are wrong for not having fun because of a cheesy mechanic and you tell them then they should just leave, then you do not have any right to ever complain about the low player numbers, just remember that
@@bobtehdinosaur I have learned to read a Valk player when I encounter one. If all they do is light light sweep, you can just premptively dodge after the 2nd light and you'r guaranteed to dodge the sweep and you can punish her. Its harder against good valks because they only use it sparringly, which in my opinion props to them because at least they are not making the fight boring and annoying by doing the same move over and over again.
@@nyx0103 oh it's easy to predict, but my point is that the tracking is very random and it decides that they wanna 360 no scope me for no reason. Even when I predict it and know it's coming and dodge pre-emtively, I still get caught in in it for no reason.
@@bobtehdinosaur That's the connection, not the move itself, unless there's something else you're not saying. If you play as Valkyrie, you'll see it's the opposite; people will dodge your sweep with no issues
If 3:00 - 3:20 upsets you, that message is definitely for you. Play that shit on repeat if you need to. Don't say anything like "well is it right or skillful to spam?" 1. Morals have no compass in for honor and 2. is it any less "skillful" to be beaten by the same move thats blatantly rhythmic(light attk combos) or a move that can be baited then parried.(dodge attks) Whether you like freeze or not, if you wanna get better at the game you should listen. He gets long winded sometimes but thats only to further explain what he is saying so that everyone has a fair chance of understanding and retaining the information.
Dodge spam wasn't a problem until the gb became less efficient and the dodge lights stopped hyper armor. Light spam was always solved by good reads, luck and good reactions.
im 16, got wifi that sometimes is ok but other times makes me want to burn my router. Of course, i get angry when i die to spam but only when my wifi is being shit. does that still make it my fault?
Of course not. But it still doesn’t make norm when it comes to balancing games. You’ll notice there’s been a single game dev that ever balanced a game based on the average set up a person uses for their PC and console. Some may certainly balance it around the hardware that makes up a PC and console, but never has there been any kind of balancing done based on the average gamer’s setup.
In my opinion, yes. Either go wired, or simply move your console closer to your router… but it *most certainly* isn’t the game’s fault for your terrible internet connection. With that logic… you could boot up another game, get your ass kicked in the multiplayer section of the game, and then blame For Honor for YOUR OWN terrible connection. For Honor isn’t making you lose, it’s your terrible setup, and no matter what game you decide to play that setup is always going to limit you.
@@devonrounds5583 fair enough, but I don't have the option to go wired cause it isnt my house, it's my parents, so I can't just start moving my TV from my wall to my desk and I can't afford to buy a £100 monitor if I do move my xbox to where i do have access to a wire. My room is set up so that the TV is on one side of the room and the wire next to my desk which is on the opposite side. So I can't do much about other than hope for days with good connection.
I would actually like if you discussed more about the topic of stamina. Is stamina in a good spot now? It's probably not imo. Many things could cost a little less stamina to make this game so much more "breathable". - Stamina regen pause must be gone from EVERY BASH (and Lawbringer’s top heavies, Gladiator’s toe stab as well as from other attacks that may deal stamina pause I could not be aware of.) …Some stamina costs should be lowered: imo would be needed a change to: - Hard feints: from actual 10 to 5. (Maybe for Berserker, since he has high enough stamina and his hard feints give him hyperarmour and reliable lights, I’d say that 7 stamina to hard feint would be fair. Not too much, but not too little). - Gbs: from actual 15 to 12. - Gb throws: from 18 to a range between 7 and 11, depending on the distance of the throw. (Example: short throws, like Valk’s would cost 9, while Warlord’s would cost 11, eccetera in betweens…) - Zone attacks: from a mostly standard cost of 60 to a more decent standard cost of 25 or 30, +5 with hard feint, excluding Bp’s, Gladiator’s and Conq’s zones: since they are stronger than average, they should all cost in a range between 40 and 45 stamina. JJ’s current stamina cost as a heavy parry punish is probably ok (?). - Full block/Hidden/Sifu/Bulwark/Kaze stances and followups… Honestly these must be looked at one by one evaluating which stamina costs may be ok and what should be lowered. Probably though, all followup attacks need to cost less stamina than the stances. In my personal opinion the combination of the two should exceed the total cost of 24 or 27 stamina (total cost, so covering all interactions: activation, hit being superior blocked, counter attack, but without counting the fact that holding full block stance costs 5 stamima per second, which isn’t bad). I’ve checked and seen that there are way too many disparities in all-guard superior block stamina costs between characters. Conqueror and warlord have insane costs (from 27-28 to 39 stamina!)?just for an effective superior block, while Aramusha and Kyoshin can spend much less for guaranteed dmg and even with the ability to fast flow into their all-blocks. Kyoshin can keep twirling the shikomizue for eternity (no costs for holding the stance), meanwhile Warlord can’t hide behind the shield for ever (5 stamina per second)… Of course, even if we standadised a maximum number of 24 or 27 stamina, which would represent for a superior block with a heavy punish after it, we should always think of what should cost more: The activation? The superior block? The punish? Conqueror’s activation cost should probably differ and be lower from the one Warlord, Black Prior, Kyoshin have, because it’s needed to “hard” feint heavies. - The standard stamina pool should be increased from 120 stamina to 130. Those who have it higher than this stay like that, no worries. - All bashes could be standardised at a cost of 15 stamina, +5 with the hard feint.
I don't feel qualified to make any actual suggestions except removing stamina pause from bashes, or at least decreasing it to the point that it's short enough to not really matter. With the possible exception of Jorm's bashes, I guess. Pains me to say they should stay, but I honestly think he needs it to be playable. The stamina thing is like his whole shtick.
@@sirreginaldfishingtonxvii6149 Just removing it would be fine. Warlord doesn’t have stamina pause, yet he is a very good hero, and just a bash/bash delay/delay into gb mixup is good enough to have some oos pressure. Conqueror, Bp, and all other knights (except maybe gryphon?) can keep you OOS forever and their OOS pressure is insanely good just because of the wrong reasons. Talking about Jorm, I feel like he would just need a proper rework that makes him utilise his kit in a different way, without the absolute need to harm stamina.
@@wolvenedvard3049 Yeah I'd say removing it is not only fine, but vastly preferable. I kind of like Jorm's stamina-based fighter uniqueness though, so I wouldn't like it to be removed. Though he may need a rework, I dunno.
I hate that most of the For Honor community sees us kensei mains as spammers. Kensei has so many tools yet so many just use triple lights and dodge attack. Not a single bash or soft feint
Dodge heavies in this game are just terrible tbh. Idk why we haven't done an overall nerf to make them more gb vulnerable when they already have low parry punishes and a lot of free I frames. Dodge lights deserve gb invulnerability, dodge heavies deserve gb vulnerability. Until this happens I will shake my fist at every kensei I have the displeasure to go against....not as had as hito tho
I think when I’m mad at someone for spamming I’m actually just mad at myself for being incompetent and it’s just difficult to see that in the moment sometimes
When i get mad at spammers its because im on ps4 and they are a on a $3000 pc and im hit stunned the entire time trying to predict where the next hit stun is going to come from because they are experiencing a new viking hero in the future of for honor and im still waiting for a new viking hero to drop in the past of for honor, also for all of u not old gen console players, do we ever get a legacy hero for the vikings?
I've been garbage for like 800 hours. Or perhaps rather my defense has. The rest is average at best. At this point I'm considering that I might never improve, regardless of the time I put in. But at least I've never complained about it (to my knowledge), that never helps anyone. My fault that my defense is shit, not ubisofts. If I can not complain and whine, you can too.
when i used to play the game a friend of mine loved spamming kensei dodge attacks. whenever i was spectating him i was telling him dont fucking dodge attack all the time (because when he meets someone who can play) they will kill you. he usually got mad at me for this and thought his point is proven whenever it worked against some poor sod.
Me out here playing on a last gen xbox one on a monitor that is easily out of date, but still light parries and deflects light (mostly read but sometimes on reaction if warmed up). I really enjoyed this video. I can’t believe people get pissed off when Freeze shares what people NEED to hear. Nobody gives a fuck about what you want to hear.
For honor community is literally just 45% people who complain about everything, 45% people who shit on any complaint at all, and 10% people who complain about legitimate problems with characters and game balance but get shit on anyways for making a complaint. Probably unpopular opinion, but Imo the people who say to "adapt" to everything are equally as annoying as those who say everything is broken.
I must admit that it is the greatest pleasure of this game, when your opponent selects every annoying hero in game in hope to spam you with something, but it's do nothing.
I get that feeling lots. People who start spamming wow for no reason, they rematch and pick Highlander or something to light spam and the first light they throw is parried.
My take on lights is that if you don't have the reactions(which was the intention of the CCU), you're put in the read/guess scenario; it would be nice to have more time to make reads. From a duel perspective, the damage of lights could be lowered since some 3-hit light chains can take a third of your health, e.g. Kensei, Centurion, and pre-rework Orochi can take around 40 damage with a full light chain and the Orochi could throw 4 of those before running out of stamina. In other fighting games, a basic combo normally takes 15-20% of your health which allows for more time to make reads. The other solution would be to increase the number of rounds to win in duels to 5, well at least in Ranked Duel since you don't get rematches, so you would have more time to make reads. In team fights, it's not so bad as you do have more time as well as team support. You could argue that it's my fault and need to improve but it’s a shallow and condescending argument overall since there are those who say light spam is not a thing but also say that dodge on red is annoying and deletes their offensive flow, a lot of feats are overpowered, and ganks, in general, are too strong. I don’t have an issue with these things for the most part but I could be condescending talk about how to deal with them and imply that those complainers need to get good. The truth is players at all levels have their issues with the game and, of course, they are not exactly the same. While some complaints are a result of laziness and unwillingness to learn but that shouldn’t be assumed for every complainer. Listening and sharing knowledge is the way forward for this community, not belittling its members.
I’m not very good at the game but I’m a rep 7 bp main (sometimes I’ll play shaolin for fun) and the amount of light spamming kensei orochi Valkyrie and nobushi I find really annoys my. I’m able to counter it but I have a friend who just started the game that has no idea what to do against these types of people. Sent him this video and I can tell he got a bit better at handling light spam. Thank you for finally making making him able to stop these annoying players
*Step 1:* Practice timings and get relatively consistent light parries for certain problematic combos in training mode. *Step 2:* Don't get any parries in actual matches because of Internet shenanigans. *Step 3:* Die to lights even though you did it right. *Step 4:* Cry.
I totally used to complain to myself about spam, until watching one of you old vids and decided to practice, spent a while in training with an orochi bot throwing combo lights till i got better in general, i find the game alot more enjoyable since i learned how to light parry on reaction and most of the time making reads :) P.S Love your vids some people need to be told bluntly or they wont listen!
To be fair tho the game should be enjoyable for everyone not just the people who can afford the best stuff, it took me a bit to get used to the ccu update and I still think it was a bad decision for console players, I still believe this game should be updated separately from pc players, on my pc I have no problem with spam, on my Xbox due to input delay and 30fps and in your words "technically unreactable lights" it's pretty annoying dealing with kyoshin lol
@@aiellamori ive been playing since hitokiri came out, in that time i was able to adapt and learn to read and parry accordingly, since the ccu all my reads are worthless, nobu misses a kick i know its a light but its only a 33% chance i guess which side it comes from or even the top, because its already extremely fast on top of 100ms till the indicator comes out. and with a name like that dude we already know you play the counter hero who already counters all light spam and anything so play like lawbringer for a few days and tell me you can enjoy it
@@aiellamori ok? have you even played fh? and if so who is your main what console you play on and whats your tvs specs, if youre on pc just shut up fr pc is easy mode for fh
@@gandolfbengstan4 I don't have a main, I have all heroes around equal rep besides shaolin and shugoki who are still rep 1 and I also play on ps5 with a monitor with 60hz max, but before, I played on ps4. I have a lot of video proof on my Instagram of my light parry prediction and reaction while still on ps4
Not sure what to do against spamming lights (speaking as a console player). If I'm say, Aramusha, I can BB in time to punish on a read which is nice and I can often *block* lights. But God, it's a bitch to actually PUNISH consistently, especially against a character like Nuxia who also has very subtle light animations. I don't blame a person for doing it. But I do not enjoy being on the receiving end.
After the CCU, the game has become more of a read based game. You can't realistically react to lights or other quick attacks when you're on a pre-gen console. You just have to guess the opponents next attack, or preferably read their attack pattern. For instance; If you find yourself being attacked from two lights in a row very often, one from the left and one from the top, try and parry the light attack that comes from the top after you've been hit by the left one. If your opponent realises that you can read them, they'll likely switch to a plan B pattern, which you can hopefully also read after some chains/attacks.
@@magnus1043 sounds good on paper but many people even if they expect a light and wait for the red to Flash cant parry it bcs for some fucking reason light still goes thru. Im not against making the game more read based, but throwing out reaction based things completely is idiotic. Every person uses their reactions bcs it's natural, so when you make their reactions work against them, then it sure can get them annoyed.
@@magnus1043 *Solution:* Have a random generator running in the background, constantly suggesting completely random attack directions. Follow these directions to have no pattern. You are now unreadable, and can spam lights forever. Enjoy your complete domination of for honor.
@@voodooozo3755 Yes, you're right. Input delay is a big problem on pre-gen consoles. You have to input R2/RT before the indicator flashes. That's why you (unfortunately) have to read/guess the move. I very much noticed this when I went from PS4 to PS5, where I now can pretty much press the button on the indicator flash. Still, it's a bit difficult to react to lights, even though I'm on PS5. It depends how awake or focused I am.
@@magnus1043 You do realise a tiny minority can react to the parry flash? Practically everyone has to parry on a "read", Theres few people who can actually parry on the flash timing
They should solve spam by adding a "resistance buildup" feature, where every time you land a hit of the same move there is a reduction in the damage it does. This will encourage people to actually learn the game and use variety.
Lots of other games do this and it works quite well, since those who spam will have to take so long to kill that the defender is bound to get a lucky break eventualy.
So let's say I admit I'm not the best player there is. Is it wrong for me who tries to play a varied set of moves and make fights interesting, to get angry when these types of spam work , and often too well? I paid for the game, I feel like it's not that unimaginable for me to complain about something that is ruining my experience. Especially when the servers are nowhere near perfect and parries and dodges often get ignored. I've had countless occurrences where my dodge input was outright ignored even if it worked 5s before. If you single out complaints about spamming as complaints just about spamming it makes sense. But often people fail to elaborate that the spam complaint is more of a "everything" complaint... I personally feel like Ubi is trying too hard on the fighting game side and ignores the fact that they'd bring in more players and more revenue if they took more of a battle game approach, with a more accessible and less oppressive combat system. I for one play this game for the amazing art and characters. If I found another game that had For Honor's art Style and vibe. I'd be gone in an instant. Not everyone can be in the top 2000 best players, and not everyone should be. And I think Ubi is losing out by tailoring this game around those players.
@@erbol8116 I see your somewhat of a point. But I also disagree, pretty much all of the highly famous games are balanced for the "general population" and not the 1%.
@@kababmichips1767 True , but here let me ask a better question. Why should I that's trying to play Warden let's say , have to work so much harder , than a dude playing any of the dodge attack characters to get a hit in. When all they need to do is wait for me to try and throw an attack and just dodge attack on indicator. Some are so quick that if you throw a light you're getting hit.
@@Constantine_04 warden playing harder💀 warden has a true 50 50 unlike most characters. u saying u have to work harder is only an assumption made by urself. if they are spamming dodge, feint into guardbreak or parry. tactics that seem safe or easy are usually the most punishable
True like the only time i die is When im retarded and think: "No Way hell try that again cmon" then i die agaim and after that i just Parry Every single light and they die I GET MORE triggered by them not changing playstyle after i light parried them 14 times in a row and killed them twice that triggers me
6:15 well shit I've been trying to improve since CCU quite a lot, pretty much to the point of try harding. Still 3/4 of my light parries just go thru bcs why not and I suck. I guess Im shit lol. Time to find different game.
Well this comment made me think: freeze is not wrong, we should improve against spam, but if half the playerbase is on console and let's say 2/3 of players can't react to lights, they will then switch to another game and for honor will die. The devs should keep spam a "viable" option while making it a bit more punishable
6:05 ngl. Do not agree with this at all. If I'm on a 30fps console against a kensei that just spams tripple light. I ain't gonna be able to beat him, not cuz I'm bad. Its cuz tge light come at the speed of light on old gen
I play ps4 man, I understand console light spam is frustrating but think of it terms of gameplay. To people like us, making honest reads during the course of our fights, a light is a light no matter if it's a few frames more obscure, the same reads on the same timings will get us through. Because they're correct reads.
I recently learned not to parry everything thrown at you. Just blocking normally is good to. I use to always try to parry (still get those moments) but blocking normally for me works out just as good. I survive longer and the spam doesn't seem to be much of a factor.
Nooooooooooo don’t turtle!!! /s
Yes I hate teammates who try and party everything they see especially when it's an aramusha lol
Yeah I’m still trying to break the habit of trying to parry all lights lol I just need to block the spam and wait for the right time to parry once I catch on to their pattern. Because there’s always a pattern in someone’s spam you just gotta catch on to it.
What do you do for heros like shaolin, shinobi, and orochi? How do use their block
@@TyAshton just reflex. I will parry more with assassins but I still just block normally unless they are throwing super slow attacks
The sight of a kensei being headbutted to death brought me a mixed feeling of guilty joy
I was about to mention that shugo game.
That was just painful, and I want to say it was awful, but like... He just didn't do anything to try and stop him.
@@vallenthedragon8411 what could he do, that move phases through every attack and you can't gb it
@@thedarkprince6 try some more feints, don't dedicate to anything particularly punishable (if the shugo is playing cheap, do the same), use his bash for the love of god, out range the bash with a read & punish, ect.
Their are many ways to deal with it, even if they are not particularly fun.
Hmmmm, sounds familiar...
@@vallenthedragon8411
All the big braining and shugos thought process “I’ll just head but him again” and it works lmao
@@lifewasgiventous1614 to be fair, he could have done far worse with the oos punish.
It was 100% meme days, no need to brain when can *BONK*
my favorite genre of asmr is freeze calling me a retard for 6 minutes
When it comes to light spam, it is a genuine problem on old gen consoles. You cannot say it's just "some guy with shity wifi, terrible input delay, and a two decade old TV that has issues with it" because it's not. I played on a monitor with a wired controller and someone ELSES McDonalds wifi would render me helpless against their ability to mash RB. My solution was ultimately fixed when I got a PC, but you cannot ignore the fact that consoles are the biggest part of the playerbase. Not sure if it is still the case but there was a time where old gen consoles were the majority and the thousands of old gen console players who rightfully complained about how strong lights were got swept under the rug because YOU play on PC.
This.
The devs have done nothing but cater to PC players for years, even though THEY were the ones constantly bitching & moaning about how trash this game is, & constantly claiming that it's "dead" for YEARS.
Yet we, the ones holding them afloat, just get left to sink into obscurity.
The console excuse is no longer an excuse. Stop bitching, get good.
Source:has been playing since closed beta on a gen 1 ps4.
@@amememachine8974 the console excuse is still an excuse because we have to block attacks, the indicators of which dont show up until 100ms after the attack started, with an additional 100ms input delay. It's very much so a problem, and a reasonable excuse. It's gotten so bad that I can literally only play through predictions. I've completely given up on reacting(even on heavies) because going off prediction is much safer.
Source:am also on an old Gen ps4 ("only" since bp release tho)
@@amememachine8974 sorry if im not playing all sweaty 24/7. A game is about fun and having to constatly sweat just to parry some light is annoying and way to hard for what it is. Its like what 24 damage for a light parry and a light is like 12 damage. But anyway i know that i should get better too and im wasting my time here.
Don't forget about our 30 fps compared to new gens 60 and PCs 60-100+ :)
My problem with light spam is sometimes once I get hit by one of their lights the game doesn't let me block the other lights in their chain. I'll move my guard over and I'll get hit through it, doesn't matter if it is kensei orochi or any others.
thats a mix of differrent characters having differrent hit stun and characters having recovery, but also can go back to the point of not having a good enough setup. if you still have old controllers for xbox one or something like that then your inputs are delayed, ect
Yep. Especially kensei. And they usually have 60+ ping. I once ate 5 heavies in the same direction and just...ate them all as if blocking doesnt even exist
Yea also had something like this happen to me quite often... especially if the players against you have high ping. I usually am able to deal quite well with light spams but damn. Had one Glad against me yesterday that had his ping going up and down between 35-410 ms. He only spammed lights and sometimes i wasn't even able to react to it because he had already hit me without any indicator or the indicator came for a brief moment after i was hit. I experienced a lot of Ping spikes (if on purpose or not) and in my opinion they really are a problem in this game. Most of the time when i get hit through a block it is related to some guy who has a 100-400 ms ping who is playing a character who has really fast lights.
Thought I was the only one
you never are ;)
@@MarcoTheDarco
8:49 The happyness in his voice voice when someone actually adapts and counters his spam. Wholesome.
I never knew Freeze was german until I heard him there XD
@@mataeri He sounds Scottish. His English anyway.
@@mataeri Is it really German he was speaking?
@@mrcheeseskeleton3447 Bavarian german ^^
@@mrcheeseskeleton3447 yep
I was so happy when that Kensei learned.
@@Sebastian_1177 true, very true. I've seen this more then normal players recently.
This is actually the reason I fell in love with For Honor, spending hours mastering hero’s and playing the hero I suck playing against to learn their move set and then countering them later. It was all a giant mind game. Thank you Freeze, for making me a better player. I learned what an option select was like a year ago (because of you), I taught myself how to light parry, I taught myself how to feint, and I even play the tutorial/story mode. I had no friends to play with and I was putting time into this game by myself until I started watching you. I appreciate the videos and I appreciate the bluntness, everyone should have to hear what you had to say today.
For anyone wondering:
I play PS4, I have 176 reps, my highest rep character is a rep 20 Warden (unfortunately), I main Shinobi (for fun).
Edit: not sure what the fuss is about, I’m pretty sure light attacks are NOT supposed to be react-able anyway (yes, you can block or predict parry), that is why light attacks do less damage now? Regardless if I play console, regardless if there are light spammers, if you predict parry and get a good heavy in, that will lead to your chain, then you read your opponent. I don’t see what is so hard about that…
Do you live in Europe?
Option selects are for twats that can't make reads. Glad it's getting removed.
@@ivanbenja4 don’t shove your opinion into every single hole you can find, you self centered twat.
@@ivanbenja4 cry
@@ivanbenja4 you need to make a read to counter option selects. So maybe the ones complaining about it can't make reads
Can't believe freeze would spam like this smh
Imagine Spamming vids like freeze (This is a joke you all know it cmon if its not funny thats ok)
Lost all respect :(
Can't believe he'd stoop this low :zhanU:
I'm on console and I can't react to light spam but I can predict it sometimes. But even though I can parry 1 out of every 4 lights I'm still taking a lot of damage from the other three. And if the enemy is someone like Kyoshin then they have a dodge attack and a crushing counter to save them from getting hit from my attacks so that they can continue throwing lights. It's also unfair to say someone is worse than a light and dodge attack spammer because they can't predict or react to it because there is also frame advantage and recoveries from trying to optimize damage that give the light spammer the advantage. Also trying to use mixups to defeat an opponent that is using a single move doesn't make them worse than them.
Same here lol. Everyone isn’t in the position to spend a rack to optimize for honor, this video was pointless.
Exactly but its your fault you dont have highend tv n perfect network etc according to freeze to play this game u must be decked out
You see, to stop someone from "light spamming" you just need to block and steal back your turn by mashing, you don't have to read noir parry.. SO NO frame advantage are on the defender side against light spam..
Youre not supposed to react to most of them. Youre supposed to make a read. Like every other fighting game ever made.
@@jonathancarpenter2336 And the reason I loved For Honor was that it wasn't like every other fighting game ever made...
What about annoying/ boring to deal with spam? Dodge spamming can be countered with feints then parry....but the game just becomes a three input tedious task.
Yes, some do complain about spam because it is effective against them, but personally it's just about being able to PLAY a game and not pressing 3 buttons.
Try playing on ps4
Yeah, countering dodge attack spam is boring as hell. Maybe they should add more gb vulnerability to dodge attacks so you don't get punished for trying to counter them
this right here. Spamming becomes annoying and its even worst when you try to make your opponent adapt but they dont and keep doing the same thing. The game becomes really boring and stale. I play a fighting game to fight, not to press 3 buttons over and over again because someone decided to play like a toddler and I am NOT a babysitter.
I agree. This video can be summarized as "just win lol" when winning isn't really the issue. The issue is the game just becomes an absolutely horrendous slog when someone refuses to do anything but say, press dodge attack on red. I'm more concerned about the new player experience, because for anyone that doesn't have like 200+ hours and doesn't watch like deep dive tutorial videos, the game is just not gonna be fun.
Wow those are some convenient subtitles! I wonder who made those 🤔🤔🤔
ye, who even understands that gibberish
Ay max! ;D
What language is that though? It sounded spanish, or middleastern. But freeze is german...
@@wolvenedvard3049 not middleastern for sure
@@sabuuuu8824 Ok my bad 😂
My actual brain process in these scenarios:
No way he does it again....
He did it again :o
Too true
Lol I just started playing and I all I do is parry and r1
@@Legendary380 well please stop, especially if you're on console it's very depressing to deal with
@@k0vacs527 yea I’m on ps5
Literally the same. I think this guy can't be that much of a moron that he will attempt to zone on red for the 6 time in a row... And he does.
I just think to myself some people are smarter than that, but I assume wrong. Everyone's a dumb ass.
So, let me get this straight, when I get hit left/right over and over on console for honor and can't actually guard because of both recovery delay *and* a complete gearswitch of an input spam just to live, *it's my fault*.
Sure. I'll just check out when you play a game that has genuine flaws that lead to unstoppable strategies and call you at fault for it.
Or how about we go down right now to every card game in existence and tell them "pot of greed, draw infinity cards" are perfectly fine and balanced in ranked, judged matches.
And for the final nail in the coffin why don't we say hi to the Paralympian demographic and tell them to "Just compete in the Olympics".
Because sure, you can be bad at a game and be punished for it with fair due punished, but you can also just get whipped for just trying to play when there's an in-built tumor of a strategy that specifically works against the system to the point where it breaks the continuity of just playing how you're supposed to.
yeah i´d say its your fault for buying a technically inferior version of a gametype that relies on fps.
and besides watch this again 4:18
you filthy casual
@@xVallan and what if he didn’t buy an inferior version?
I hate when casual is used as an insult, it’s definition is “relaxed and unconcerned” which is the exact opposite of what he is right now, he’s trying to play casually but can’t relax or be in a good mood because brain dead assholes keep coming at him by spamming the same attacks over and over again, and now he can’t even enjoy the game
This is a similar experience I have in every online game I’ve ever played, PvE games are boring as hell nowadays, that’s why online games took over, but it’s beyond infuriating when we have to spend hours just trying to get better at a game so we can get out of the hellish low ranks and away from the brain dead morons, just so we can enjoy ourselves
Casual is used as an insult, but how is it insulting to treat a game, LIKE A FUCKING GAME?
You using casual as an insult makes you sound like a tryhard, which honestly, is worse than a casual, watch what you say
@@logeyperogi1805 so in other words you don´t want to put effort into a competitive game and are surprised you get anihilated by every bullshit no-brain method thrown at you and are so far up your own ass that you think games that are meant to have a learning curve should cater to your needs.
But oh boy do I have a solution for you: don´t play games that require your time or effort, try CoD.
you goddamn casual
@@logeyperogi1805 I love calling bad players casuals when I'm good at a certain game
@@davidmartinez2407 I mean it is kinda funny as long as you are not an asshole about it
Freeze: get gud
*refuses to elaborate further*
*leaves*
okay but 400ms lights on console are pretty hard to counter, I just feel like I have to try a lot harder than my opponent when they just light spam, but what do I know I’ve only played for 2 months
My biggest issue with spam is that the skill of the game's playerbase varies so much you can't always be sure if you're next opponent will spam at you or not. For me, when they do and I get used to it, sure I can beat them - but I don't learn anything, I don't improve. Fighting someone who spams dodge attacks and gets punished for it constantly, or spams guardbreak and never changes up their approach doesn't give me the same kinda challenge. And if I'm not challenged, I'm not forced to adapt; and that kinda match makes me feel bored and indifferent even if I win.
While I fully agree with what you say, there are some moves and characters that are too broken to counter most of the time such as highlander or shugoki. Highlander can be played like spam or be played normally, so when most people are constantly light spamming, you most likely will not be prepared when you find one that plays him normally because your brain will want to try to react to an indicator with a light parry.
This shugoki gameplay looks like the kind of shit I'd try to pull of just to see if I could. Honestly props to the dedication to that single move per game.
Being able to admit to yourself that you're not good at this game is the first step to improving at it, it lets you know where you currently stand. With that said I'm nearly rep 50 with warden that I've only played since year 2 and I'm very bad at this game, but this game is extremely fun.
@@thehiddenone470 Do you mind explaining?
Same im rep 45, took about 20 losses in a row and admitted I might just b bad, took a tiny break, and started experimenting ways around spam and cheese, can't say I've been winning more but I've been getting pretty close, there's always a way around a offensive mechanic
For Honor does also have a problem I think with button inputs, like on PK you have to time her stabs. This I think messes me up a lot, and I do get frustrated because my buttons dont do what I want them too, when I press them.
I mean yeah, objectively speaking you’re like completely right. I always want to improve and learn from my fights and sometimes I’ll get annoyed and complain but once I take a breath, I remember it’s my fault for losing to whatever beat me and I gotta learn to beat it and I usually do. Learn from your losses or be stuck.
The thing I most hate about for honor is the zero gb vulnerability dodge attacks like kensei, whenever I'm versus someone with one I can never do a chain heavy or zone mix-up because of the threat the move existing has I can normally parry people when they spam it but it makes fights super boring
What makes it worse is that ubi keeps giving every single new character a dodge attack
I wish all dodge attacks were like orochi's. (light attack) So when they sit there and spam, at least you can get a decent punish from parry.
big man revealing the bitter truth...
"improve you lazy twat!"
- freeze, 2021 Geneva Convention
edit: thank you for 69 likes
The freezeva convention
The saying goes for many but it’s not a one size fits all
Kinda True Tho the main thing i hate which aint even spam is Multi Picks Bc idc Its not fun bieng Ganked by 4 Cents like Cmon man
That's the thing, he didn't give a solution just complained. For the record you should:
Load the Moveset in the training arena then practice blocking and parrying.
Change to a character that has an effective counter (not going to win with HL against a bash spam conq)
Learn about frame advantage, guaranteed punishes and when you can be aggressive.
Keep control of the fight, if you are letting the opponent control the pace you have already lost.
I think this video applies to the PC version (which was our console version before CCU). While I do agree that whining about losing on PC is dumb, it's a whole different story on console.
I have been playing this game since the release of Aramusha and i'm not boasting when I say I'm very experienced (was Diamond V in ranked).
My biggest issue with the game is how they made it so accessible and easy for everyone. Now there's no need to think or try at all to defeat someone.
I've spent a lot of time mastering every character in the game for years... just to get to the point where you're beaten by a spam of a single button...
I may sound like a total prick but this stays true. The console version is a scrub-fest now and I feel robbed.
Not a prick. Better take than this video
Even at the higher level light spam and dodge attack spam is present and efficient...
The issue is that beating the light spam is either locked behind making unfavorable reads out the ass or being genuinely gifted in reactions, always been an issue with fh is that the genetic lottery wins u the game.
Personally i can counter lights on reaction on old gen console, but thats because i have relatively above average reactions and about 2k hours in the game that i spent to practice.
Light spam in itself is not strong its when players also have half a fucking brain and use lights that you cant react to, in their favour.
@@Oznerol1234
Well... now everyone plays the same. We all are now equalised.
There's no way to distinguish a newbie from a skilled player... everyone just lights and dodge attacks.
@@ryanbackus5692 lots of misinformation
You can simply dodge light chains, Aswell as frame advantages existence
Its simply inefficient to spam even against someone who can't react, Assuming they use the in built "anti spam" mechanics to their advantage
My 30fps, controller delay having ass is locked in and ready to finally have fun in for honor
2:45 😢 nvm
I know i feel so attacked whats wrong with having xbox 1 1mb/s wifi
@@Angelo-nd4lg ik. Just because my playstation 4 sounds like the east midlands airport, doesn't mean that it's able to run a plane (sadly)
@@deantinkler2406 😂😂
It's just the annoying argument where 1/3 complain they can't react to something, 1/3 complain about people that can't react whining, and 1/3 trying to raise a different point and issue only to be met with "it's your fault you die".
Kensei dodge has the worse discussion around it, where some complain about countering the move like it's a "win button", which causes justified flak being sent against that argument, but dismisses people looking to question if the move has too much coverage, is too easy to use or isn't heavily punished enough, which have an actual discussion to be had but it's shut down quick
It's the hill I will always die on. Just remove the hyper armor follow up and Kensei's dodge attack will be more in-line with the other dodge heavies. At the moment it's not worth doing anything other than a parry and a free light.
And if they're a dodge spammer Kensei, you can only feint > parry > light the entire fight or you die. It's not hard, just mind numbing to not get to do anything else against them.
I don't have a problem with kensei. His dodge attack is perfectly fine.
@@Jordan-subj In my opinion, the problem isn’t necessarily countering his dodge attack, it’s the fact that: A. It only nets a light, which really draws the fight out, and B. On a hero without undodgeables, it counters every option apart from feint to neutral, you let the UB fly? The DA hits you, you feint to GB? The DA has I-Frames, you feint to light? It still dodges the light (unlike option selects that can be countered by this). Your only choice is to feint to neutral and parry, and that’s not hard to do at all, just so unbelievably boring and kind of negates the point of a moveset for some heroes.
@@bobtehdinosaur The dodge attack itself is fine. The hyper armor follow ups to cover his ass from punishes aren't is the point I was making.
@@nero457 Yeah that's what I was saying too. I don't like that he has a "get out of jail free" card with that dodge attack, but I also don't want to nerf it so much that it's completely useless.
That's why I think the best compromise is removing the hyper armor follow ups.
you know you actualy opend my eyes a little, i do complain aloot but its mostly because i am annoyed. its just a vent i dont expect people to take me serious to save my keyboards life
I agree with most of what you say, however I question your take on the “shit wifi,shit monitor” point. Some people can’t afford a brand new monitor. Maybe some people live in a house that only has 1 Ethernet port, and the people living with you can’t be arsed to have a cable running across the house. I feel that you kinda took a shit on the people that are in this situation.
It's easier for him to shit on peoples circumstances than to actually have a rational and reasonable discussion about it.
I agree with you
Here’s a possible solution… if they don’t want the cable running *through* the house, run the cable *above* house (through the attic) :)
This backround footage is something I expect from "clips that makes u question reality" type of videos.
"Spam is not a problem"
I was with you untill then but yes it is indeed a problem, spammable moves like bashes are way too easy to use, way too common and the worst of all is that it drains stam which makes playing against it extremely infuriating and unfun.
The other one is heavy dodge attacks with low GB windows, which are most of them, i can hard feint 99% of my moves but why should i even bother playing when thats half of all im going to be doing? Its not fun its not engaging and the least they could do is make those a light parry so if i face one of these annoying players i dont have to sit there for what it feels like eternity! Not to mention the problems of stalling when thats the case...
So yes Freeze, IT IS A PROBLEM, not in the way you think as "boohoo i died to a kensei who dodge attack 39 times in a row" but in the sense that it makes the game boring and stupid, its depressing, its frustrating, why should i waste my time jumping back into the game when thats borderline all im going to see?
Thats just missing the point, im just saying... good vid overall.
This video is for you. Watch it.
@@chacharealsmooth941 You missed the point buddy...
Yeah like bp or conq with stam drain is so annoying bp especially when you can hardly punish his bash cause of good recoveries
@@torrentarrow9097 yeah... even that i would be fine with if werent for the fact that it drains my stam which essentially removes my ability to attack on top of all the hood perks pf having those bashes.
if you watch till the end you see someone who figures it out, i kinda doubt the game was boring for him.
Due to the nature of the game i understand peoples frustration with "spam". Getting spammed by a prior bash when you play a character without a good enough dodge attack to punish it, or running out of stam and literally dying because of stam pausing lmao letting characters dodge attack out of chains relentlessly is such a tedious process to chip them down for a 12 damage punish over and over again
The best advice I can give to players struggling against spam is to start saving up money to improve their set up. I did and got a series s and a nice monitor and practiced in training a bit and I rarely get hit by lights that aren’t confirmed anymore
Ah yes, because in order to actually enjoy playing my 60 dollar (or free depending on when you joined) game, I need to spend 300 dollars.
_Just because I can't switch over to PC without my nearly 6 years of For Honor gameplay grinding itself into dust._
@@CaptainCFalcon you say it like that’s a lot of money. I can save that up in a week or two working a minimum wage job and paying all my own bills…
@@domclement9638 That sum is slightly above than what I earn a month. So yes, if I stop eating, paying for electricity, internet, water and the like, then I'd be able to improve my set up... Guess I'll play in the dump or something.
@@b2modby if you cut out some of your unnecessary expenses for just a short while, you’d be set. You could also just get a loan and only have to pay a small amount ($50-ish) each month until everything is completely paid off. *Surely* you can afford that?
@@devonrounds5583 bruh
I love how blunt and straight to the point he is
The way you talked about this is perfect as some who complained about light spam I do punish them for doing it but you always have that one stubborn person who would keep doing it until it works which is sad to see wasted potential on one trick that can be counter with a few options but good vid ether way you earned a sub
The only thing that was rlly anoying was shugokis Hyper armor Lights but theyre long gone (Since a light with hyperarmor like cmon xD But well i parried it like 50% of the time sooo i couldnt care less)
@@Kitsune_Chara_CG I mean highlander exist with the amount of ppl who same with him I rather play conq and sit there waiting for them to swing than Parry
I remembered seeing a 2v2 berserker fight where none of them broke their chain cause hyperarmor, I found it pretty funny
Lmaoo
I need to get better at timing, I react too fast and try to parry the second I see the red indicator, plus I don’t just block half the time, I almost always try to parry
Agreed 99% but that 1% is that I still think it is kind of sad when players aren't able to use their other moves/ play with actual style
yes ikik it is about winning for most of you but to me... well I just like to see style and creativity
@@xeno1106 man I respect you you are right I fell sad for them because they aren't improving they just stay monkey brains
I like this video. This video remains me of a kid in For Honor 2 years ago and he told me that "to beat a spammer is to be a spammer yourself." and he also said, "When in doubt, be a spammer."
Very wise kid.
He is somewhat right.
I love how for "bash spam" you were just playing as normal conq
lmfao
Us after watching this video: "We did it boys, spam is no more."
You after watching this vid "I did it boys, I missed the point"
@@tacoking1333 You after seeing my joke: "I did it boys, I don't have a sense of humor." I was making a joke. I already knew what the point of the video is. "If you are falling for light spam, it is your fault for not being good enough at the game to beat it."
I agree and disagree. Spam is something that exists in literally every fighting game, but spam too effective or too strong is actually a balancing issue. Dash r1's are pretty balanced fast but dangerous when thrown with reckless abandon, but characters literally designed to have just 50/50's for their entire kit can reasonably annoy people. Also "this generation of gamers" have the same exact issue as every other "generation of gamers" good players find ways to adjust and learn new strategies, mediocre players struggle for long periods of time or never adapt and complain. There are plenty of videos of even the old halo days of people being salty and complaining, it's not brand new at all, didn't start with this generation and definitely won't end with this generation. Otherwise id agree overall that spam is a relatively small issue in For Honor especially for veteran players.
the logic of spam is that anything and everything can spammed to an extent. The part where spam becomes an issue is that there is relatively no risk but can net large rewards.
Light spams, dodge spam even bashes and unblockables can all be punished, and sometimes nets large rewards if read correctly.
It's the bashes that have little recoveries, or unfavorable matchups that end up being spammed because its more rewarding than simply being better at the game. Why learn BP's large moveset when you have the safest/ease of use bash in the game and only 2-3 characters can even effectively punish it.
@@mustysmells817 hito heby on console
@@mustysmells817 Yeah I was looking for a comment like this. BP has a huge move set but people only spam the bash and chain bash. Most characters in the game cannot punish it. Shit like that is stupid and should be punishable by every character, not just a select few.
Even good player complain when the game completely does a 180 in gameplay after spending years mastering an entirely different game style. Marching fire and Ccu made alot of pros leave
@@SoraX66z definitely
It's definitely not the player getting spammed fault when the frames are shorter than the human ability to react to , combined with input delay and lag. Get real. That's why I put the game down , because the frames changed and now I actually can't react to certain things no matter how much I see it coming. All the time I put into getting more skilled was made moot by a single update , suddenly spammers were clapping my cheeks all over again. If I played PC I'd probably still be on the game. But console is cursed.
Thats probably because youre not supposed to react to most things. Youre supposed to make reads. You know, like every other fighting game ever?
@@jonathancarpenter2336 I play fighting games , and no, you don't have to make reads all the time. That is a skill, but not the only skill
Youre gonna try and tell me you can react to the majority of combo attacks in MK or tekken
@@jonathancarpenter2336 I'm not gonna try , I'm telling you exactly that. It's not because I'm a fighting game god , but precisely the opposite.
@@jonathancarpenter2336 look most fighting games have animations that are more easily readable because the animations are longer or if it is 2D they can draw it a way that is easier to understand but I mostly play tekken I am a king player the guy that looks like a cheetah
The 8:54 subtitle made be very happy with the accompanying sounds of happy Freeze noises.
you arent rude. You're brutally honest. The people saying that you're rude are the same people who refuse to improve at the game
On top of that. It’s much more gratifying to learn how to use a spammers spam against them, (hence: feint heavy a kensei who spams dodge heavy into parry) and learn from your mistakes. This reminds me of the first time I played Sekiro and got shit on by the low level enemies. It takes mental effort to assess your mistakes and improve, it’s much easier to monkey brain and beat chest demanding change.
Ok but like it’s not my fault if I lose to a BP that gets 80% of their damage from a bash. It’s worth spamming because it’s unpunishable for most heroes. The stamina pause and drain keeps BP in a good spot and makes OOS easy.
Yeah he fails to mention some poor balance decisions in the video
Just parry the bash bro
You mean you can't react to a 500 ms nearly unpunishable bash even with a dodge attack on a shitty tv and old gen console, garbage
BPs bash is punishable, just not with GB unless on super early dodge iirc. Tbh I still fucking loathe this stupid aids character but using a dodge attack on read will punish BPs bashes pretty much all the time. Some top level players like Barak can pretty consistently react to BPs bash and punish it too. While his complete lack of recovery was incredibly egregious in the past when most heroes didn't have dodge attacks, these days it's much less of an issue. Any hero with a 600ms or faster dodge attack can regularly punish BPs bashes. If the move was punishable with a GB it would totally turn the risk/reward out of BPs favor. The rest of the character is still incredibly boring and pretty overtuned defensively though, but his bash recovery is almost a non issue now that most characters have a dodge attack capable of punishing it and other similar moves.
@Hardev Singh yeah people are so thirsty for kills that in dominion when I’m 1v1ing someone and we’re low some random orochi pops out of nowhere and executes me cause my low then they run away like the little shit they are.
I really like how blunt you are
I mean I’m sure this is true on pc and next gen, but being a long time old gen player I just don’t really agree, not as much with dodge attack, heavy, gb, and bash, but with light spam and using a character like gryphon. Majority of the time lights spam is predictable, but if it’s a character with chain hyper armour lights, then there’s not much I can do, I can only read so much and the inability to react as well exacerbates this problem. Kensei embodies this problem for me. I’ve come to terms with it, and tbf, lots of the ppl I play against are good players who don’t do it, but it’s still infuriating playing against a light spammer who knows what they’re doing
I don’t think our community is terrible, most ppl get angry in the moment and mellow out, and I have fun and wholesome moments more than annoying ones.
I play exclusively on old gen atm. And I have an issue with this comment. First of all, gryphon is a mediocre hero after his nerf and his lights are 500 ms and don’t have hyper armor. Kensei only has hyper armor on his light finisher. Even at low frames lights are actually reactable on a blocking and parrying perspective. Not every light you block is prediction, not every light that hit you was unreachable either.
the only issue i have with spam is that it's not fun to play against
How to counter:
Dodge attack spam: Anticipate it then feint then parry/GB
Bash spam: Anticipate then dodge or light (if they spam you know they'll do it again so you can anticipate)
GB spam: Anticipate then light, or stop dodging/parrying
Light spam: Anticipate then use frame advantage to light in return!
The key word is Anticipation, and knowing the mechanics to counter!
There's no frame advantage in for honor 😂😂😂
And timing. I've anticipated kick/sweep/hug spam many times but I either dodge too soon (for hug spam) or too late (for kick/sweep spam). Frames matter!
@@shirishvogga6046 what are you talking about? Of course there's frame advantage
@@shirishvogga6046 Frame advantage is a thing, it was introduced back in the CCU all that time ago, it depends on the type of attack and the hero but basically some lights are faster than others, someone will bear your light if your chain ended in one, etc, etc, that’s where the wait your turn or respect the other person’s turn came, cause if you just mash the light button you’ll probably just end up loosing due to frame advantage
Counter argument
Spam tastes pretty good when you cook it a bit on the stovetop, but too much and it gets fairly boring quickly.
"Geht doch burli, geht doch"
Frieren, 2021
So THATS what he said. Thanks
I used to be a light spammer like you, then i took a dodge attack in to the knee
Trigger warning at the start made me laugh unreasonably loud. But back on topic, it really does sadden me about our community. While new player complaints are prevalent in any fighting game, I've never seen more people just complain and deny improvement guides or help. Anyone can improve if they really just put the time to it and a lot of people are willing to help people improve, but some people just prefer to catered to. It's why I found the Gryphon monke meme funny at first, till people decided to just do that instead of y'know, deal with his moveset.
Regardless, I really enjoy your attitude of saying things as it is and not sugarcoating, and I feel it's sorely needed in our community. Keep up the work fridge :D
Its like this in any game. The people you refer to are called "casuals" and they simply refuse to learn and improve. And it seems like those people are the majority in gaming community which is the reason the devs are making games as casual-friendly as possible. Because an average consumer is a potato. Thats pretty much it and theres nothing you can do about it.
@@fortytudo I TS not t Casual it's th e common gamer. Most people don't live of playing games like he does. Imagine playing about t 2 hou RS of for honor daily and one update changes everything to and forces you to Adapt to really frame perfect inputs
@@gabrielantunez7642 I've just had my first game on in a year and its not that hard to block and parry. Stop overreacting the game aint that different at all and its fairly forgiving for timing you just want a reason to complain
@@tacoking1333 the famous it doesnt affect me therefore you are wrong. i bet you also play with the hud off and blindfolded
The problem is not that expirienced players can counter it and the spam is not effective anymore. The problem is that spam is easely made and for someone that starts out its extremly hard to learn anything from it when you die in 10 seconds everytime and have no chance to learn anything. The annoyance comes faster. I can see that many people quit the game because of this frustration and no work around so i throw the ball back to you. If you say they all are wrong for not having fun because of a cheesy mechanic and you tell them then they should just leave, then you do not have any right to ever complain about the low player numbers, just remember that
Valk sweep was annoying af when i was new but its the easiest shit to counter
Valk sweep is so goddamn random. I hate it when I dodge and she does a 180 turn a catches me, it makes no sense.
@@bobtehdinosaur I have learned to read a Valk player when I encounter one. If all they do is light light sweep, you can just premptively dodge after the 2nd light and you'r guaranteed to dodge the sweep and you can punish her. Its harder against good valks because they only use it sparringly, which in my opinion props to them because at least they are not making the fight boring and annoying by doing the same move over and over again.
@@nyx0103 oh it's easy to predict, but my point is that the tracking is very random and it decides that they wanna 360 no scope me for no reason. Even when I predict it and know it's coming and dodge pre-emtively, I still get caught in in it for no reason.
@@bobtehdinosaur That's the connection, not the move itself, unless there's something else you're not saying. If you play as Valkyrie, you'll see it's the opposite; people will dodge your sweep with no issues
@@TranscientFelix yeah ik, I have 14 reps with valk and that only works against me lol
I'm from Brazil and dude, that video cleared my mind like God making wine out of the water
If 3:00 - 3:20 upsets you, that message is definitely for you. Play that shit on repeat if you need to. Don't say anything like "well is it right or skillful to spam?" 1. Morals have no compass in for honor and 2. is it any less "skillful" to be beaten by the same move thats blatantly rhythmic(light attk combos) or a move that can be baited then parried.(dodge attks) Whether you like freeze or not, if you wanna get better at the game you should listen. He gets long winded sometimes but thats only to further explain what he is saying so that everyone has a fair chance of understanding and retaining the information.
Fun fact: the sound the hero makes when dying is one of the best features in the game.
"Why would you say something so controversial yet so brave?"
Dodge spam wasn't a problem until the gb became less efficient and the dodge lights stopped hyper armor. Light spam was always solved by good reads, luck and good reactions.
"Man I love to watch Freeze's videos he always has helpful information and I love to learn!"
"...oh."
im 16, got wifi that sometimes is ok but other times makes me want to burn my router. Of course, i get angry when i die to spam but only when my wifi is being shit. does that still make it my fault?
Of course not. But it still doesn’t make norm when it comes to balancing games. You’ll notice there’s been a single game dev that ever balanced a game based on the average set up a person uses for their PC and console. Some may certainly balance it around the hardware that makes up a PC and console, but never has there been any kind of balancing done based on the average gamer’s setup.
In my opinion, yes. Either go wired, or simply move your console closer to your router… but it *most certainly* isn’t the game’s fault for your terrible internet connection. With that logic… you could boot up another game, get your ass kicked in the multiplayer section of the game, and then blame For Honor for YOUR OWN terrible connection. For Honor isn’t making you lose, it’s your terrible setup, and no matter what game you decide to play that setup is always going to limit you.
@@devonrounds5583 fair enough, but I don't have the option to go wired cause it isnt my house, it's my parents, so I can't just start moving my TV from my wall to my desk and I can't afford to buy a £100 monitor if I do move my xbox to where i do have access to a wire. My room is set up so that the TV is on one side of the room and the wire next to my desk which is on the opposite side. So I can't do much about other than hope for days with good connection.
I would actually like if you discussed more about the topic of stamina.
Is stamina in a good spot now? It's probably not imo.
Many things could cost a little less stamina to make this game so much more "breathable".
- Stamina regen pause must be gone from EVERY BASH (and Lawbringer’s top heavies, Gladiator’s toe stab as well as from other attacks that may deal stamina pause I could not be aware of.)
…Some stamina costs should be lowered:
imo would be needed a change to:
- Hard feints: from actual 10 to 5. (Maybe for Berserker, since he has high enough stamina and his hard feints give him hyperarmour and reliable lights, I’d say that 7 stamina to hard feint would be fair. Not too much, but not too little).
- Gbs: from actual 15 to 12.
- Gb throws: from 18 to a range between 7 and 11, depending on the distance of the throw. (Example: short throws, like Valk’s would cost 9, while Warlord’s would cost 11, eccetera in betweens…)
- Zone attacks: from a mostly standard cost of 60 to a more decent standard cost of 25 or 30, +5 with hard feint, excluding Bp’s, Gladiator’s and Conq’s zones: since they are stronger than average, they should all cost in a range between 40 and 45 stamina. JJ’s current stamina cost as a heavy parry punish is probably ok (?).
- Full block/Hidden/Sifu/Bulwark/Kaze stances and followups… Honestly these must be looked at one by one evaluating which stamina costs may be ok and what should be lowered. Probably though, all followup attacks need to cost less stamina than the stances. In my personal opinion the combination of the two should exceed the total cost of 24 or 27 stamina (total cost, so covering all interactions: activation, hit being superior blocked, counter attack, but without counting the fact that holding full block stance costs 5 stamima per second, which isn’t bad).
I’ve checked and seen that there are way too many disparities in all-guard superior block stamina costs between characters. Conqueror and warlord have insane costs (from 27-28 to 39 stamina!)?just for an effective superior block, while Aramusha and Kyoshin can spend much less for guaranteed dmg and even with the ability to fast flow into their all-blocks.
Kyoshin can keep twirling the shikomizue for eternity (no costs for holding the stance), meanwhile Warlord can’t hide behind the shield for ever (5 stamina per second)…
Of course, even if we standadised a maximum number of 24 or 27 stamina, which would represent for a superior block with a heavy punish after it, we should always think of what should cost more:
The activation?
The superior block?
The punish?
Conqueror’s activation cost should probably differ and be lower from the one Warlord, Black Prior, Kyoshin have, because it’s needed to “hard” feint heavies.
- The standard stamina pool should be increased from 120 stamina to 130. Those who have it higher than this stay like that, no worries.
- All bashes could be standardised at a cost of 15 stamina, +5 with the hard feint.
I don't feel qualified to make any actual suggestions except removing stamina pause from bashes, or at least decreasing it to the point that it's short enough to not really matter.
With the possible exception of Jorm's bashes, I guess. Pains me to say they should stay, but I honestly think he needs it to be playable. The stamina thing is like his whole shtick.
@@sirreginaldfishingtonxvii6149
Just removing it would be fine.
Warlord doesn’t have stamina pause, yet he is a very good hero, and just a bash/bash delay/delay into gb mixup is good enough to have some oos pressure.
Conqueror, Bp, and all other knights (except maybe gryphon?) can keep you OOS forever and their OOS pressure is insanely good just because of the wrong reasons.
Talking about Jorm, I feel like he would just need a proper rework that makes him utilise his kit in a different way, without the absolute need to harm stamina.
@@wolvenedvard3049 Yeah I'd say removing it is not only fine, but vastly preferable.
I kind of like Jorm's stamina-based fighter uniqueness though, so I wouldn't like it to be removed. Though he may need a rework, I dunno.
i remember i use to get upset about being light spammed but i decided awhile back to improve instead of being a child about it
I hate that most of the For Honor community sees us kensei mains as spammers. Kensei has so many tools yet so many just use triple lights and dodge attack. Not a single bash or soft feint
Dodge heavies in this game are just terrible tbh. Idk why we haven't done an overall nerf to make them more gb vulnerable when they already have low parry punishes and a lot of free I frames. Dodge lights deserve gb invulnerability, dodge heavies deserve gb vulnerability. Until this happens I will shake my fist at every kensei I have the displeasure to go against....not as had as hito tho
" I dont lie for my own gain " This is why i STILL listen... the "blunt" is WHY i love you though
I think when I’m mad at someone for spamming I’m actually just mad at myself for being incompetent and it’s just difficult to see that in the moment sometimes
When i get mad at spammers its because im on ps4 and they are a on a $3000 pc and im hit stunned the entire time trying to predict where the next hit stun is going to come from because they are experiencing a new viking hero in the future of for honor and im still waiting for a new viking hero to drop in the past of for honor, also for all of u not old gen console players, do we ever get a legacy hero for the vikings?
Being held out of stamina almost indefinitely with differently delayed bashes from bp and conq is the only time I'd say spam is an actual issue
I've been garbage for like 800 hours. Or perhaps rather my defense has. The rest is average at best.
At this point I'm considering that I might never improve, regardless of the time I put in. But at least I've never complained about it (to my knowledge), that never helps anyone.
My fault that my defense is shit, not ubisofts.
If I can not complain and whine, you can too.
Man you have guts it is a fighting game you need to understand that people always complain like in super smash Bros ultimate 🤣
Where was this attitude at when people were zone option selecting?
In a nutshell:
Spam it's annoying, but it's your fault if you get hit by 37 kensei dodge attacks in a row
when i used to play the game a friend of mine loved spamming kensei dodge attacks. whenever i was spectating him i was telling him dont fucking dodge attack all the time (because when he meets someone who can play) they will kill you. he usually got mad at me for this and thought his point is proven whenever it worked against some poor sod.
Me out here playing on a last gen xbox one on a monitor that is easily out of date, but still light parries and deflects light (mostly read but sometimes on reaction if warmed up).
I really enjoyed this video. I can’t believe people get pissed off when Freeze shares what people NEED to hear. Nobody gives a fuck about what you want to hear.
How much is terrifying the shield bash of conqueror? Please do something for the window of delay or buffering and nerf it
There should be a mention about complex spam, because its can be not "one move spam" its can be short pattern that quite effective.
For honor community is literally just 45% people who complain about everything, 45% people who shit on any complaint at all, and 10% people who complain about legitimate problems with characters and game balance but get shit on anyways for making a complaint. Probably unpopular opinion, but Imo the people who say to "adapt" to everything are equally as annoying as those who say everything is broken.
Sounds like somebody cant adapt.
That Kensei Dodge spam was probably the most Kensei thing I've ever seen
What about when your team is blaming you about everything. Cuz they just died to a Highlander......while you're still waiting to respawn.
I must admit that it is the greatest pleasure of this game, when your opponent selects every annoying hero in game in hope to spam you with something, but it's do nothing.
I get that feeling lots. People who start spamming wow for no reason, they rematch and pick Highlander or something to light spam and the first light they throw is parried.
That sweet sight where they start the match trying to spam you to just staring at you because they can't think of a mix up, beautiful
@@aiellamori HL is the worst person to spam with,that's coming from an HL main.
My take on lights is that if you don't have the reactions(which was the intention of the CCU), you're put in the read/guess scenario; it would be nice to have more time to make reads. From a duel perspective, the damage of lights could be lowered since some 3-hit light chains can take a third of your health, e.g. Kensei, Centurion, and pre-rework Orochi can take around 40 damage with a full light chain and the Orochi could throw 4 of those before running out of stamina. In other fighting games, a basic combo normally takes 15-20% of your health which allows for more time to make reads. The other solution would be to increase the number of rounds to win in duels to 5, well at least in Ranked Duel since you don't get rematches, so you would have more time to make reads. In team fights, it's not so bad as you do have more time as well as team support.
You could argue that it's my fault and need to improve but it’s a shallow and condescending argument overall since there are those who say light spam is not a thing but also say that dodge on red is annoying and deletes their offensive flow, a lot of feats are overpowered, and ganks, in general, are too strong. I don’t have an issue with these things for the most part but I could be condescending talk about how to deal with them and imply that those complainers need to get good. The truth is players at all levels have their issues with the game and, of course, they are not exactly the same. While some complaints are a result of laziness and unwillingness to learn but that shouldn’t be assumed for every complainer. Listening and sharing knowledge is the way forward for this community, not belittling its members.
It's a shame because the heavy-damage nerf update basically shifted the meta towards lightspamming and bash-mixups.
@@mustysmells817 Light damage was barely touched by the CCU. It should have received a nerf just as proportionate as the heavies.
Hearing freeze speaking in dialect is surprisingly convenient.
It sounded like an alien version of german
I’m not very good at the game but I’m a rep 7 bp main (sometimes I’ll play shaolin for fun) and the amount of light spamming kensei orochi Valkyrie and nobushi I find really annoys my. I’m able to counter it but I have a friend who just started the game that has no idea what to do against these types of people. Sent him this video and I can tell he got a bit better at handling light spam. Thank you for finally making making him able to stop these annoying players
We need to keep light spam in so we can keep getting free parries
You're a PC player aren't you?
@@theyeetcrusade6207 or PS5
I wish those parries would work normally. Each match I have to have at least 3 times when I throw the parry at light but it just goes thru.
*Step 1:* Practice timings and get relatively consistent light parries for certain problematic combos in training mode.
*Step 2:* Don't get any parries in actual matches because of Internet shenanigans.
*Step 3:* Die to lights even though you did it right.
*Step 4:* Cry.
@@sirreginaldfishingtonxvii6149 *Step 4:* move on to different game
*Step 5:* Come back to for honor once in a while
*Step 6:* Repeat the proccess
9/10 spammers can't handle getting spammed. give them a taste of their own medicine.
The "trigger warning" was amusing.
I totally used to complain to myself about spam, until watching one of you old vids and decided to practice, spent a while in training with an orochi bot throwing combo lights till i got better in general, i find the game alot more enjoyable since i learned how to light parry on reaction and most of the time making reads :) P.S Love your vids some people need to be told bluntly or they wont listen!
To be fair tho the game should be enjoyable for everyone not just the people who can afford the best stuff, it took me a bit to get used to the ccu update and I still think it was a bad decision for console players, I still believe this game should be updated separately from pc players, on my pc I have no problem with spam, on my Xbox due to input delay and 30fps and in your words "technically unreactable lights" it's pretty annoying dealing with kyoshin lol
It can be enjoyed by everyone. You don't need expensive equipment to learn how to adapt and read your opponent
@@aiellamori ive been playing since hitokiri came out, in that time i was able to adapt and learn to read and parry accordingly, since the ccu all my reads are worthless, nobu misses a kick i know its a light but its only a 33% chance i guess which side it comes from or even the top, because its already extremely fast on top of 100ms till the indicator comes out. and with a name like that dude we already know you play the counter hero who already counters all light spam and anything so play like lawbringer for a few days and tell me you can enjoy it
@@gandolfbengstan4 my name was made when Instagram first released, it has nothing to do with for honor
@@aiellamori ok? have you even played fh? and if so who is your main what console you play on and whats your tvs specs, if youre on pc just shut up fr
pc is easy mode for fh
@@gandolfbengstan4 I don't have a main, I have all heroes around equal rep besides shaolin and shugoki who are still rep 1 and I also play on ps5 with a monitor with 60hz max, but before, I played on ps4. I have a lot of video proof on my Instagram of my light parry prediction and reaction while still on ps4
your insightful anecdotes saved my marriage
Not sure what to do against spamming lights (speaking as a console player).
If I'm say, Aramusha, I can BB in time to punish on a read which is nice and I can often *block* lights. But God, it's a bitch to actually PUNISH consistently, especially against a character like Nuxia who also has very subtle light animations.
I don't blame a person for doing it. But I do not enjoy being on the receiving end.
After the CCU, the game has become more of a read based game. You can't realistically react to lights or other quick attacks when you're on a pre-gen console.
You just have to guess the opponents next attack, or preferably read their attack pattern. For instance; If you find yourself being attacked from two lights in a row very often, one from the left and one from the top, try and parry the light attack that comes from the top after you've been hit by the left one.
If your opponent realises that you can read them, they'll likely switch to a plan B pattern, which you can hopefully also read after some chains/attacks.
@@magnus1043 sounds good on paper but many people even if they expect a light and wait for the red to Flash cant parry it bcs for some fucking reason light still goes thru. Im not against making the game more read based, but throwing out reaction based things completely is idiotic. Every person uses their reactions bcs it's natural, so when you make their reactions work against them, then it sure can get them annoyed.
@@magnus1043 *Solution:* Have a random generator running in the background, constantly suggesting completely random attack directions. Follow these directions to have no pattern.
You are now unreadable, and can spam lights forever. Enjoy your complete domination of for honor.
@@voodooozo3755 Yes, you're right. Input delay is a big problem on pre-gen consoles. You have to input R2/RT before the indicator flashes. That's why you (unfortunately) have to read/guess the move.
I very much noticed this when I went from PS4 to PS5, where I now can pretty much press the button on the indicator flash. Still, it's a bit difficult to react to lights, even though I'm on PS5. It depends how awake or focused I am.
@@magnus1043 You do realise a tiny minority can react to the parry flash?
Practically everyone has to parry on a "read", Theres few people who can actually parry on the flash timing
They should solve spam by adding a "resistance buildup" feature, where every time you land a hit of the same move there is a reduction in the damage it does. This will encourage people to actually learn the game and use variety.
Lots of other games do this and it works quite well, since those who spam will have to take so long to kill that the defender is bound to get a lucky break eventualy.
So let's say I admit I'm not the best player there is. Is it wrong for me who tries to play a varied set of moves and make fights interesting, to get angry when these types of spam work , and often too well? I paid for the game, I feel like it's not that unimaginable for me to complain about something that is ruining my experience. Especially when the servers are nowhere near perfect and parries and dodges often get ignored. I've had countless occurrences where my dodge input was outright ignored even if it worked 5s before. If you single out complaints about spamming as complaints just about spamming it makes sense. But often people fail to elaborate that the spam complaint is more of a "everything" complaint... I personally feel like Ubi is trying too hard on the fighting game side and ignores the fact that they'd bring in more players and more revenue if they took more of a battle game approach, with a more accessible and less oppressive combat system. I for one play this game for the amazing art and characters. If I found another game that had For Honor's art Style and vibe. I'd be gone in an instant. Not everyone can be in the top 2000 best players, and not everyone should be. And I think Ubi is losing out by tailoring this game around those players.
Its simple, no discussion just git gud. No game is balanced for "casual", you have to improve or die
the thing is, spam doesnt work on a fundamental level. the only one at fault is you for not adapting and countering appropriately
@@erbol8116 I see your somewhat of a point. But I also disagree, pretty much all of the highly famous games are balanced for the "general population" and not the 1%.
@@kababmichips1767 True , but here let me ask a better question. Why should I that's trying to play Warden let's say , have to work so much harder , than a dude playing any of the dodge attack characters to get a hit in. When all they need to do is wait for me to try and throw an attack and just dodge attack on indicator. Some are so quick that if you throw a light you're getting hit.
@@Constantine_04 warden playing harder💀 warden has a true 50 50 unlike most characters. u saying u have to work harder is only an assumption made by urself. if they are spamming dodge, feint into guardbreak or parry. tactics that seem safe or easy are usually the most punishable
for honor players after having to acknowledge that the majority of players cant react to 300 ms attacks:
Really putting your balls out this time Freeze. Good for you dude.
This a long video to explain to the world that you like to spam
I love light spammers, generally they have no other play style so if you can parry you just win 😂
True like the only time i die is When im retarded and think: "No Way hell try that again cmon" then i die agaim and after that i just Parry Every single light and they die I GET MORE triggered by them not changing playstyle after i light parried them 14 times in a row and killed them twice that triggers me
Can't react to lights on PS4... By the time you recognize a pattern, they've already hit you with 5 lights.
I'm gonna keep this video in my back pocket next time someone complains about my Tiandi light spam 💀💀
6:15 well shit I've been trying to improve since CCU quite a lot, pretty much to the point of try harding. Still 3/4 of my light parries just go thru bcs why not and I suck. I guess Im shit lol. Time to find different game.
Well this comment made me think: freeze is not wrong, we should improve against spam, but if half the playerbase is on console and let's say 2/3 of players can't react to lights, they will then switch to another game and for honor will die. The devs should keep spam a "viable" option while making it a bit more punishable
The devs should have balanced the game separately, there’s no chance we can react consistently with a fraction of the FPS.
this video is explaining what ive been trying to say for years
6:05 ngl. Do not agree with this at all. If I'm on a 30fps console against a kensei that just spams tripple light. I ain't gonna be able to beat him, not cuz I'm bad. Its cuz tge light come at the speed of light on old gen
Did I stutter?
ever heard of *blocking?*
@@LockheedC-130HerculesOfficial i some times try to parry everything and get deleted
I play ps4 man, I understand console light spam is frustrating but think of it terms of gameplay. To people like us, making honest reads during the course of our fights, a light is a light no matter if it's a few frames more obscure, the same reads on the same timings will get us through. Because they're correct reads.
dodge after the first
I feel really bad for the kensai just getting single shugoki lighted to death. Dude probably just got the game
I feel like lights should all be 400ms and reduced damage or something but make lights unreactable to everyone would be nice