honestly, reminds me of my first and only time playing magic. I had watched a few episodes of spell slingers, picked up an event deck at walmart, and went to friday night magic. I dont even know what mistake I made, but that guys hand shot up like a rocket and I just grabbed my cards and walked out. I had a $20 event deck and he had like a $1,000 meta deck. All he had to do was take the free win without being a dick. Turns out that is too hard for some people.
This is a super good learning/teaching tool. I need to make it to more judge conferences. I dont think mock tournaments were a thing when I was judging (2011). Thanks for filming these!!!
I would say it's more of an excellent/fantastic learning/teaching tool. You and I both need to make it to more Judge conferences/meet-ups. Mock tournaments most certainly were not a thing/did not exist in 2011! 🤙🏻
@@moreplease394 Yikes, that's so embarrassing. I don't understand why anyone would criticise someone for sharing their initial perspective on something. Do you enjoy being a douchebag?
@@JivanPal yes and it's hilarious how you copied me because you lack the mental fortitude to come up with an original insult. Have fun being a *_LOOOOOOOOSEEEEEERRRRR_*
I HATE when you ask someone to explain what happened and they add sentences like "I should have done this" or "I did it because I think he had that"...stop, just stop, you were asked what happened, not hypotheticals.
I understand your frustration, but remember, a lot of players consider you as the authority. Nervously explaining a better play in fear that the judge will notice is an understandable reaction.
Wondering if it's just a matter of time before tournament players are expected to keep a written log of game play like in chess to help curb issues like this.
Besides that cheating angle, since the Path player knows that it should have been exiled, then when Snappie is cast, it's fails to find right? I understand that this is a training exercise.
Im new to the channel. This this a set-up scenario ? I watch another video with this same guy on the Left who calling for a judge about the missed trigger of a permanent he had given to his opponents.
Yeah I made the same mistake with my comment up ^there [made before the video ended]. It was only riiiight at the end when the ranga asked for a group photo that I realised this wasn't IRL.
Sometimes cards end up in zones for reasons that you totally forget. I used to sometimes discard SSG with Living End, but then when I put it into play from LE, assume I messed up and exile it instead.
With the Snap / Path interaction, lets say it wasnt cheating, does policy allow a backup( to the point where snap has resolved and his etb trigger is going on the stack) and then apply the partial fix of (path should have been exiled when he flashed it back the first time)?
a quick fix to the game State honestly would just be to treat it as if the path wasn't in the graveyard, the downside there is that the player wastes their Snapcaster but I think that's a fair enough punishment for failure to maintain the game State, along with a warning obviously.
@@malaven11 They should probably make that more clear in the title, someone might watch a minute or two and think this was really a guy cheating and face him at some tournament in the future
@@EnderSword Well, if you only watched 2 minutes then you don't really have enough info to go on. Also, in the description (and kind of in the title) it says this was at a judge conference.
@@pyrobryan Yeah, I know they should know this and should read that and should watch it for context...but this is the internet. I just mention it because a popular Chess commentator once made a video called 'Anna Rudolf Accused of Cheating With Hidden Chess Engine in Lipstick' the following video then made it clear that he was mocking this ridiculous accusation. But it's the first thing that comes up when she's googled and made a bunch of people think she's a cheater. I can just imagine the same thing here, people out of context assume this guy really is a cheater.
I would have assumed it accidental if he had mana for visions. Might have dug deeper if he had another second snappy in hand but wouldn't have gone to interviews with that.
6.7 k views and only 11 comments. Odd. Would love to get more into MtG. Collected cards when I didn’t know much about it as a kid. Have played on pc and Xbox some.
i don't like how they were calling each other morons in front of each other. i know a lot of players will let that slide, but i would say you're not going to sit here and disrespect me like that, i dont care we're playing magic we're 2 ppl at a table and we're going to have a certain social contract. am i overreacting here, or is there any type of rules on this, written or otherwise? they both do it, so nobody is holier than thou here, but let's say i do want to press that bc i have been respectful the whole time, can they be penalized for constant disrepect? i'm sure regular warning chain would apply here?
They weren't calling each other stupid in front of each other This is a Judge Conference and everyone playing are judges. They are specifically making up scenarios to test and train new judges. In this case the Judge was going to separate the 2 to get their stories. They wouldn't have actually been in front of each other, but since its a made up scenario they just stay in place
@@Dylan-vs6sf i'm aware it's training. i thought it had happened once before hypothetically separating, looking back i can see my statement isn't completely accurate. even if it didn't happen here, you know it's happening in every LGS and probably even worse the higher the stakes get, although i can't speak from the competitive perspective. suppose it did happen tho, what would be the recourse?
@@Fausto_4841 Unsporting Conduct-Minor or Major depending on what exactly is happening. If your going out of your way to call your opponent a moron its probably Major since you are bullying your opponent. If your just using coarse language to describe your opponents plays it is probably Minor The first case of Minor is a warning, with all subsequent cases being game loss(if it happens in between matchs the game loss applies to your next match) Major is Match Loss with an upgrade to Disqualification if it is believed to be intentional
The people seated are experienced judges (people who organize and run tournaments for this game) who have high knowledge of the rules and policy involved. The ones standing are less experienced judges who are training in this role-playing exercise.
The question is if its cheating. Which requires more knowledge than 30 seconds would get you. A penalty could be upgraded into a match loss if you have multiple of similar infractions. Cheating is straight up disqualification.
"Its not cheating if its not intent"... man glad this guys don't make policy in the real world. The most inexperienced judge they are trying to train actually makes the most sense of all of them.
It's only cheating if you meant to make that mistake on purpose. "Definition of cheating: acting dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, especially in a game or examination." Therefore, someone forgetting something or making a mistake is not cheating, even if they gain advantage from it. Intent does indeed make the difference between it being an honest mistake and a dishonest cheat. I think they handled it well considering he had also got flagged earlier that game. Repeat offenders are generally guilty of cheating unless they are literally just learning to play for the first time.
Cheating requires intent... if there is no intent you are still breaking the rules but not intentionally. Forgetting to exile your path is a mistake that can get you an infraction, but intentionally "forgetting" to exile your path is cheating and should be a DQ.
“... don’t make policy in the real world.” Lots of laws have intent as a component of determining either severity of the offense (e.g. murder vs. manslaughter) or of outright guilt (according to the Mueller report, Don Jr. was not charged for the infamous “Trump Tower” meeting with the Russians because investigators felt he may not have been aware it was illegal, and the charge requires intent to break the law)
@@abrannan i dont think that's how that played out bro. ignorance of a law is not an excuse. i looked into it, and the way you explained it is the weak take from cnn and fox, but if you look into the articles they admit that the so called russian source proved to be useless and did not actually provide any damaging information on hillary clinton, not that any american needs to go outside the US for clinton dirt. therefore, no foreign-source campaign contribution violations happened. it almost pains me that i had to say all that because it's going to sound like i'm some maga trumptard dude, but that's just not the case i dont even like the guy, i probably dislike him more than most. it really bothers me that a lot of the way he tries to appeal himself differently each group of people is really disgusting. the way he appealed to my group then sold out those principles instantly is gross. i'm just saying this so you know how it really happened.
@@MrMann-fj4vz Mistakes happen and it's the job of a judge to determine what could have been a possible mistake versus cheating, this is why he interviews both players. Watch their missed trigger / cheating investigation video. It goes over Cheating versus legitimately rule violations via misplays.
They did. Trump supporters were 18% more likely to commit voter fraud. Suddenly everyone stopped wanting the investigation when Trump committee started just making shit up and admitting to voting multiple times themselves.
@@TurtleBoxOfficial bah... Please. How can you say that when you don't even know what I do? And 1000s of dollars a month more than me?? But at least I get pussy. 😭🤣
The acting in these is so good, i love how well they portray a nervous player dumping garbage info for the judge to filter out
I know, I just found this channel, & it slowly dawned on me that it wasn't an actual game, but a complex board state to test judges.
Pretty brilliant.
i saw only one of these and didnt even realize they where acting until more came up in my recommended and i connected the dots lol
“Judge! His finger touched my card. I want him exiled from the tournament.”
honestly, reminds me of my first and only time playing magic. I had watched a few episodes of spell slingers, picked up an event deck at walmart, and went to friday night magic. I dont even know what mistake I made, but that guys hand shot up like a rocket and I just grabbed my cards and walked out. I had a $20 event deck and he had like a $1,000 meta deck. All he had to do was take the free win without being a dick. Turns out that is too hard for some people.
“He didn’t use the aether vial for meddling mage. He’s been playing like a moron the whole game” got me lmao
I love how he said that... yet In the scenario he forgot to exile his cards
@@CalamitousCactus and it was a path to exile too, the name should remind you.
@@daftwulli6145 well the name refers to the creature being exiled not the card from flashback which is what the issue was here.
@@eionhd2715 yea jokes always become funnier when you analyze them
This is a super good learning/teaching tool. I need to make it to more judge conferences. I dont think mock tournaments were a thing when I was judging (2011). Thanks for filming these!!!
I would say it's more of an excellent/fantastic learning/teaching tool. You and I both need to make it to more Judge conferences/meet-ups. Mock tournaments most certainly were not a thing/did not exist in 2011! 🤙🏻
I can only imagine without it would be a harder longer process
Afterwards, they went out back and insulted each other's shoes.
I thought this was real and was thinking these dudes are making this a wayyyyyy bigger deal than it is lol. Then realized they were training
Yikes, that's so embarrassing. I don't understand why anybody would admit to that at all? Do you enjoy bringing shame to yourself?
@@moreplease394 Yikes, that's so embarrassing. I don't understand why anyone would criticise someone for sharing their initial perspective on something. Do you enjoy being a douchebag?
@@JivanPal yes and it's hilarious how you copied me because you lack the mental fortitude to come up with an original insult. Have fun being a *_LOOOOOOOOSEEEEEERRRRR_*
@@moreplease394 Clearly you lack a sense of irony. Please go back to school, they should teach you about it there.
@@JivanPal yep, you're much smarter than I am. Enjoy your evening, sir.
I HATE when you ask someone to explain what happened and they add sentences like "I should have done this" or "I did it because I think he had that"...stop, just stop, you were asked what happened, not hypotheticals.
I understand your frustration, but remember, a lot of players consider you as the authority. Nervously explaining a better play in fear that the judge will notice is an understandable reaction.
Wondering if it's just a matter of time before tournament players are expected to keep a written log of game play like in chess to help curb issues like this.
Besides that cheating angle, since the Path player knows that it should have been exiled, then when Snappie is cast, it's fails to find right? I understand that this is a training exercise.
Yes
Yeah I'm not a judge but my initial thought would be the player gets a warning for failing to maintain the game state and he wastes his Snapcaster
No, the Snapcaster will exile the Serum Visions.
Im new to the channel. This this a set-up scenario ?
I watch another video with this same guy on the Left who calling for a judge about the missed trigger of a permanent he had given to his opponents.
Yeah I made the same mistake with my comment up ^there [made before the video ended]. It was only riiiight at the end when the ranga asked for a group photo that I realised this wasn't IRL.
"Wait what? But were like in the middle of a match!"
great so you cut it off at the important bit - the feedback and knowing if it was handled properly.
They uploaded a separate video for that.
I want that dude's bongo cat t-shirt
The whole time I’m just watching the dude behind him face. He knows. He knows 🧐
Sometimes cards end up in zones for reasons that you totally forget. I used to sometimes discard SSG with Living End, but then when I put it into play from LE, assume I messed up and exile it instead.
With the Snap / Path interaction, lets say it wasnt cheating, does policy allow a backup( to the point where snap has resolved and his etb trigger is going on the stack) and then apply the partial fix of (path should have been exiled when he flashed it back the first time)?
a quick fix to the game State honestly would just be to treat it as if the path wasn't in the graveyard, the downside there is that the player wastes their Snapcaster but I think that's a fair enough punishment for failure to maintain the game State, along with a warning obviously.
Why do they keep letting this guy play i've seen a couple vids of his shenanigans! ( i am aware its a skit before you tell me)
Guy on the left is hella shady, known Magic cheater, should be banned: th-cam.com/video/2Ea4nf3FbH8/w-d-xo.html
Guy on left just going , "Yup."... "Yup". ... Um "Yup". Lol
I’ve seen dude on left in too many videos
I believe these are simulated situations to test a new judge, so that guy is here to come up with tricky situations
@@SimpleVisionVideos who knows
@@Eatabagofahunniddicks No. That's exactly what they are.
Is this a fake cheating run through? Or is this real?
Fake =)
How can you forget to exile the path of exile, it is in the name damn it
So this dave/ David guy is 1 a troll or 2 a cheat? Which one is it?
he's a judge. this is a scripted scenario.
@@malaven11 They should probably make that more clear in the title, someone might watch a minute or two and think this was really a guy cheating and face him at some tournament in the future
@@EnderSword Well, if you only watched 2 minutes then you don't really have enough info to go on. Also, in the description (and kind of in the title) it says this was at a judge conference.
@@pyrobryan Yeah, I know they should know this and should read that and should watch it for context...but this is the internet.
I just mention it because a popular Chess commentator once made a video called 'Anna Rudolf Accused of Cheating With Hidden Chess Engine in Lipstick' the following video then made it clear that he was mocking this ridiculous accusation.
But it's the first thing that comes up when she's googled and made a bunch of people think she's a cheater.
I can just imagine the same thing here, people out of context assume this guy really is a cheater.
Garden City? Why in Garden City?
Because that's where the judge who organized this conference lives and where the store that let us use their play space was.
Why do they all seem awkward as hell?
People acting not actors acting
they play magic most of us are introverted and nerdy
@@BenYoungDrums Nah
I would have assumed it accidental if he had mana for visions. Might have dug deeper if he had another second snappy in hand but wouldn't have gone to interviews with that.
That head judge looks like he's been in it since 93
What game is this?
magic the gathering
Why do I see the guy on the left in alot of these cheating videos
Cause this are trainingscenarios for judges, and he seems to be a Teacher who Acts in them as the cheater
Because he’s a professional cheater
6.7 k views and only 11 comments. Odd. Would love to get more into MtG. Collected cards when I didn’t know much about it as a kid. Have played on pc and Xbox some.
It's fun, kinda expensive sometimes if you want to travel to tournaments. Find a local game store, and go to the next prerelease. They're good fun
@@imALTAMONTING567 thanks for the info!
Why does this make me happy?
He's been playing like a moron all game .. but that's fine
Judges were super fair
JU-UDGE! What's with this guy
Dave is always cheating in these videos. He needs a lifetime ban. JKJK
how the fuck did this became my recommended?lmfao
JUDGE !
i don't like how they were calling each other morons in front of each other. i know a lot of players will let that slide, but i would say you're not going to sit here and disrespect me like that, i dont care we're playing magic we're 2 ppl at a table and we're going to have a certain social contract.
am i overreacting here, or is there any type of rules on this, written or otherwise? they both do it, so nobody is holier than thou here, but let's say i do want to press that bc i have been respectful the whole time, can they be penalized for constant disrepect? i'm sure regular warning chain would apply here?
They weren't calling each other stupid in front of each other
This is a Judge Conference and everyone playing are judges. They are specifically making up scenarios to test and train new judges. In this case the Judge was going to separate the 2 to get their stories. They wouldn't have actually been in front of each other, but since its a made up scenario they just stay in place
@@Dylan-vs6sf i'm aware it's training. i thought it had happened once before hypothetically separating, looking back i can see my statement isn't completely accurate. even if it didn't happen here, you know it's happening in every LGS and probably even worse the higher the stakes get, although i can't speak from the competitive perspective. suppose it did happen tho, what would be the recourse?
@@Fausto_4841 Unsporting Conduct-Minor or Major depending on what exactly is happening. If your going out of your way to call your opponent a moron its probably Major since you are bullying your opponent. If your just using coarse language to describe your opponents plays it is probably Minor
The first case of Minor is a warning, with all subsequent cases being game loss(if it happens in between matchs the game loss applies to your next match)
Major is Match Loss with an upgrade to Disqualification if it is believed to be intentional
That one guy looks like a shop keep I know lol
The guy that did the thing with the people in a place that one time?
@@TheGeopigMan its like you know that guy with the face as well! Lol
LOCK HIM UP
I do not know the rules to this game! Does anyone know the rules or do you all make it up as you go along?
The people seated are experienced judges (people who organize and run tournaments for this game) who have high knowledge of the rules and policy involved. The ones standing are less experienced judges who are training in this role-playing exercise.
When a game needs 7 judges to get the rules clarified, you know its pretty much unplayable xD
Just another training video. Move along. :)
Why are they not wearing masks!?
2019
Sigh....
Haha sarcasm 😂
so...just say that he cant cast it again because its already exiled and then give him a penalty... 30 seconds of work here
The question is if its cheating. Which requires more knowledge than 30 seconds would get you.
A penalty could be upgraded into a match loss if you have multiple of similar infractions. Cheating is straight up disqualification.
"Its not cheating if its not intent"... man glad this guys don't make policy in the real world. The most inexperienced judge they are trying to train actually makes the most sense of all of them.
It's only cheating if you meant to make that mistake on purpose. "Definition of cheating: acting dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, especially in a game or examination." Therefore, someone forgetting something or making a mistake is not cheating, even if they gain advantage from it. Intent does indeed make the difference between it being an honest mistake and a dishonest cheat. I think they handled it well considering he had also got flagged earlier that game. Repeat offenders are generally guilty of cheating unless they are literally just learning to play for the first time.
It’s the difference between lying and being wrong.
Cheating requires intent... if there is no intent you are still breaking the rules but not intentionally. Forgetting to exile your path is a mistake that can get you an infraction, but intentionally "forgetting" to exile your path is cheating and should be a DQ.
“... don’t make policy in the real world.”
Lots of laws have intent as a component of determining either severity of the offense (e.g. murder vs. manslaughter) or of outright guilt (according to the Mueller report, Don Jr. was not charged for the infamous “Trump Tower” meeting with the Russians because investigators felt he may not have been aware it was illegal, and the charge requires intent to break the law)
@@abrannan i dont think that's how that played out bro. ignorance of a law is not an excuse. i looked into it, and the way you explained it is the weak take from cnn and fox, but if you look into the articles they admit that the so called russian source proved to be useless and did not actually provide any damaging information on hillary clinton, not that any american needs to go outside the US for clinton dirt. therefore, no foreign-source campaign contribution violations happened.
it almost pains me that i had to say all that because it's going to sound like i'm some maga trumptard dude, but that's just not the case i dont even like the guy, i probably dislike him more than most. it really bothers me that a lot of the way he tries to appeal himself differently each group of people is really disgusting. the way he appealed to my group then sold out those principles instantly is gross. i'm just saying this so you know how it really happened.
Obviously the guy cheated...how many judges does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
i mean..isnt this a training scenario? so..there are so amny judges there to learn how to be better judges?
Because he didn't obviously cheat, which is the point of the training
He didn't cheat? Please help me understand how he cast path to exile 3 times...?
@@MrMann-fj4vz Mistakes happen and it's the job of a judge to determine what could have been a possible mistake versus cheating, this is why he interviews both players. Watch their missed trigger / cheating investigation video. It goes over Cheating versus legitimately rule violations via misplays.
Dorks
Wish they investigated the 2020 fraud accusations this thoroughly xD
They did. Trump supporters were 18% more likely to commit voter fraud. Suddenly everyone stopped wanting the investigation when Trump committee started just making shit up and admitting to voting multiple times themselves.
Abunch of 40 year old virgins
Who make thousands of more dollars a month than you do.
@@TurtleBoxOfficial bah... Please. How can you say that when you don't even know what I do? And 1000s of dollars a month more than me?? But at least I get pussy. 😭🤣
@@jackhammer9261 you make shitty ass dad rock guitar music that's going nowhere, especially not into womens pants