How dumb are these hacks not cutting after the other persons shuffle and not watching the shuffle for cheating! LOL So did the cheat get banned from this video?
From a philosophical perspective, EVERY cheater cheats against him/herself, because they open themselves up for ruination every time AND the more they think they can get away with cheating, the less they try to gain mastery of the game itself, making them a worse player that needs cheating as a crutch.
@F Nigs thats... exactly what it is though? The shuffle cheaters plan was to literally cheat wins. The problem is that he didn't think that MMAAAYYBBEEE the person who he gave the land to needed the land to win. 'There are holes in your plans.'
@F Nigs Irony: 1. the expression of one's meaning by using language that normally signifies the opposite, typically for humorous or emphatic effect. 2. a state of affairs or an event that seems deliberately contrary to what one expects and is often wryly amusing as a result. 3. a literary technique, originally used in Greek tragedy, by which the full significance of a character's words or actions is clear to the audience or reader although unknown to the character. Guy in the comments of an ironic situation presented in a youtube video tries to be cool by "educating" someone on the definition of irony, ironically has a wrong definition of irony in his head. :)
I have a friend that always happens to have the same couple cards every commander game we play. That doesn't happen unless you cheat. I don't really mind though cause I still win. Sometimes I'll force him to let me cut his deck and he gets defensive cause he knows his good cards are on the top.
@@shakemorgan8449 infect is a good way to get targeted in more than a 1v1 scenario. It's like playing a turn one sol ring, arcane signet into burgeoning in a mono green deck and dropping 2 more lands on your opponents turn in a 4 player edh game. It's one of the "efficiency vs. fun" argument, and in non-tournament cases, especially just pick up games and edh games, usually ending the game fast is a bad thing
Hey, YGO player here. I really liked how you explained both players decks and their winconditions, as well as certain cards and plays throughout the VOD of the game. Since I am absolutely not familiar with MTG, this helped me by understanding why Jared played himself. Great video!
The nice thing about some cheaters is that they tend to spend so much time learning to cheat seamlessly that they inevitably neglect how to play the game properly in the first place.
That's not the case here though. This guy knows what he's doing in the game. I hate that cheaters exist in the game, but trust me losing to Tom Ross isn't a bad thing. This guy is gooood. Was almost the triple crown state champion back in the day. Won 2 of the 3 state championships one year. 2HG, and sealed I believe and was undefeated going into top 8 of the standard portion. Not dropping a single game up to that point. Wasn't he also hired to review some of the modern horizon cards before they went to print? My point is putting this guy on the ropes isn't an easy thing to do. So this guy knows what he's doing.
That some bad cheating well from the eyes of a poker player that shuffle is so slow and you can see the card in the top deck not move once he found the card it's easier to see do to the flat color if it had two cooler just moving the hand up and down or tilting it back and forth a bit would give it a better ilusion of it changing. Look at a pro cheater in poker and you will see how to do what he did better and how it should be.
@@trustmeiknow3828 Proof you can have 0 validity and still be used to make judgements. You'd think after thousands of years of scams card games would be completely invalid at this point.
Oh my God Jared botcher is in the screen cap hahaha! I've known Jared for years, when he won rookie of the Year it kind of shocked everybody in the area because we all knew he wasn't really that great of a player. And when it came out that he was a cheater we all nodded in understanding.
@@mxspokes The thing is the way Boettcher cheated he doesn't choose the land makes it too obvious he just goes with first one he sees. Also fetchlands are preferable actually as you can stack another land when they crack it allowing you to chain together multiple turns of land draws.
The other problem though, is the deck he's facing. Most decks, including Infect., can lose if they flood out. What's the alternative though? Every card that isn't a land is either an infect creature that can kill you, a pump spell to pump a creature that can kill you, a counter spell to protect the creatures and pump spells that will kill you, or a cantrip that can help draw the opponent into these things. So with no other obvious choice of what he should do, aside from not cheating of course, the guy just defaulted to the cheat that is likely so ingrained that it borders on automatic.
3:34 -- Boettcher also purposely has a sloppy playfield to provide additional opportunities to cheat. For example, he put his discard pile just to the left of his library, directly in the path of his card draw. That way, he can palm a card from his graveyard whenever he draws or picks up his library. He also exaggerates dragging the card along the matte's surface before adding it to his hand so it would seem even less obvious in the future when attempts to palm a card. If he gets caught, he'll just say, "Oops. Accidentally dragged the card with my draw."
reminds me of playing people who'd insist they only want to tap cards by tilting them 20 degrees so that they could gaslight you into believing something was/wasn't already tapped and just got bumped accidentally
"Cheaters don't think about strategy, they think about cheating" 😂 This is true to a large extent though. Their brains are wired to treat the cheating as an insta-win and this leads to shortsightedness as seen in the vid. Great vid, and look back as always.
I swear most Rust cheaters that use scripts are basically ignorant to how the actual core game is played without cheats, meaning they've played with the perspective of using cheats since the beginning of their play experience.
This is why cheating should be viewed as a set of tactics, not the overall gameplan. Just like you can play cards from your hand, you can also play a number of cheats. Understand the game, understand how and when to cheat. Of course, cheating is wrong in card games. Don't do it. Especially when playing for real money (because that's stealing) and when playing for fun (because that's sad and mean). So, just never.
@@PhazonOmega I've only cheating in magic once, was way more shy when I started playing so the idea of asking my group "Hey can I start with this card in my hand, I recently added it and want to test it out" never crossed my mind. Though I did at least leave it to chance and just placed the card I wanted near the middle and gave it to a pretty even cutter so I had the highest chance to get it. Thankfully I've gotten way more outspoken and just ask, It's usually fine with them (Unless it's on the stronger side in which case I usually just give up 1 or 2 starting cards as a compromise)
I don't remember which pro it was, but they claimed they were on the same plane as Boettcher when he first qualified for the Pro Tour. After 15 minutes of chatting with Boettcher they came to the conclusion that "no way this guy made it to the Pro Tour on skill".
Best part about the end of that round is the flavor text for the spell pierce working well in that instance Boettcher: Seems like there's a hole in your plan Ross: Nah, the one with the hole in the plan is yours
The solution to this is to force players to cut the decks after shuffling to help minimize this style of cheating. The cut after shuffling is specifically meant to prevent a person from manipulating deck order.
@@MasikoY That's not how stacking works. Yoh stack the deck, and make it so you have creature card, magic card, trap card, etc. So no matter how they cut it, you're guaranteed a healthy mix of cards.
The benefits of playing infect go further than just "half the life total". The opponent has 10 "life", no life gain, and damage stacks up against creatures over multiple turns while regular damage gets cleared from creatures at each end step
@@animewatcha It's the only "mechanic" that interacts with poison counters but there are individual cards and effects that interact with it. There are cards that interact with counters in general which can be used to interact with them, which is how proliferate ineracts with it.
My playgroup house rules out poison counters on players because I love infect and wither but we ALL hate the 10 life part. Edit:obvs that wouldn't work here, at a competition. Just saying in case someone else is in a similar (casual) boat, you got options!😊
The shitty sourpuss look from Jared at the end made me so happy. He screwed up, and the fact that he was a cheater made me even happier. I remember watching all these games, and then hearing about his cheating and watching him back. Seeing how "smooth" he was when he did his sleight of hand manipulation was kind of cool, because it gave me something more to look out for. I'm also concerned with the judges not telling him off for a literal almost 30 seconds of shuffling his opponent's deck. To me, that's a little too much time spent shuffling, and that could interfere with the gamestate as well. If this was another deck, Tom could have had Ponder, Preordain, Brainstorm, Portent, any number of cantrips, and he's taking too much time for that. AS AN EDIT: Yes, I did go back to the actual match, and watched the timer for the shuffle. It was a literal 25 seconds. As in it starts at I think 3:46 and goes until 4:11.
@@javierfito5077 That's not how Magci tournaments work. You must be able to shuffle your own deck unassisted, and it's not the Judge's responsibility to shuffle.
@@javierfito5077 the truth is, Boettcher was VERY good at the sleight of hand trick that allowed him to do it (obviously we can see it when we look back), and that was what was hard to see at the time. Nowadays, judges keep more of an eye on that kind of thing. It's just not something they thought about during that match because everything seemed on the up and up.
Man, I don't even play MTG but I've been binge-watching your videos for the past hours lol you do such a fantastic job explaining what's going on that I don't feel like I'm missing anything
Lmao Jared is from my local area, I remember him ADAMANT that he didn’t do nothing and still maintains his innocence today. Someone said he wanted to return to professional magic a while back but decided against it.
I had a guy in my hometown named Mikey “The Cheater” ----. This guy would cheat in every game and thought he was the best. We eventually just played him to catch him in the act. We tried getting him banned but the shop owner said he spent a lot of coin there and didn’t want ti lose that business. Lol what a joke!
I caught a guy at the game store here doing this very thing real early in a tournament and informed the guy running it, a friend of mine. I dropped out and for the rest of the day watched every one of his games. I kept track of every time he touched an opponent's deck. At the end he was 33 for 33 or 100% land shuffle cheating. I was allowed to present the 1rst prize. I brought him and the young lady who he "beat" for first place. I presented her the prize and explained that the "winner" had disqualified himself by cheating and explained what he had been doing all day. He immediately denied it. Problem was, when I reported it during the very first game of the day ... they tournament runners put a secondary judge spying on him for the rest of the day. They had the same observations I did. They told him in front of a huge room full of people and banned him from the premises permanently. I went to go out to my ride a bit later and he was outside waiting for me. The guy I rode there with was with me .... he is a cop .... a swat cop. Never seen such a sore loser and cheater drive away so fast.
@@lordmalkom1675 maybe but the guy who runs the store, a l9ng time friend, wanted to make kind of a show out of the guy losing because he cheated and was thinking he was getting away with it. Also, earlier in the day he had said some pretty f-ed up stuff about the young woman he had ended up playing in the final. He is one of the "new era" players but has the "old boys club" mentality towards women playing magic. She only lost to him because he screwed her draws by shuffle cheating in both their games. She had him on the ropes but he set her up to get lands and screwed her game flow. This situation also got worse for him. The owner of the store owns 5 stores across 3 states and he ended banning the guy from any kind of tournaments permanently.... for any game in his stores ... not just magic.
Gotta love the inward facing shuffle so he can see the bottom card with no problem whatsoever. Whenever I see the I am always on guard from there on out.
Every time I see that, I just say “Hey, I’m not saying you’re cheating, but shuffling a deck while glancing at the bottom cards is a pretty common cheating technique. You might not want to do that.” They always stutter and shuffle differently.
@@nicholasbehe6686 I remember having this told to me on one of my first FNMs, when I was like... 13 or 14. I have problems shuffling because I don't have great motor skills, so this legit wasn't me trying to cheat, but it's good to keep things like that respectful because sometimes people actually don't know better.
I was always taught to hold the deck slightly to the left of center when shuffling, and turn my head almost entirely to the right to avoid having any sort of sight on the deck. Anyone who isn't willing to do that (or some of the other suggestions commenters had) doesn't have competitive integrity as a priority.
Oh played against Jared at gp Richmond back in 2014 or so. Something definitely felt off, I just couldn’t out my finger on it. After the games I told the guys I was with I thought he was cheating. Months later, he’s definitely cheating.
I actually beat Jared at an lgs a couple years ago, right after his ban was lifted. It was a modern tournament, beat him with my Puresteel Paladin storm deck. Felt good.
My neighbor admitted to me he always used to cheat when we were kids. He would hide cards underneath pillows or stupid things near our game and pick them up when I was looking at my cards. I knew statistically he shouldn't be getting 1/60 cards game after game after game. I accused him of cheating one time and he threw a fit. Surprisingly, he thinks he's good at MTG and pokemon, yet nobody wants to play with him. Go figure.
Someone got caught cheating at my FNM. Dude was like 0-2 and ended up getting banned. Never really seems worth it to me. I love just playing magic too much to risk not being able to play it.
I started playing while I was like 10 and the amount of people that cheated against me and I didn’t feel comfortable calling anything out because I was so much younger than them was astounding. The only thing that kept me going to FNMs were drafts because I had fun building decks.
I guarantee there is a massive amount of cheating happening at every LGS around the world. If people do it with cameras on them... Lots of people love winning more than integrity.
@@GrumpyIan The casters didn't notice. Infact no one noticed for quite some time after this match was played. Hindsight is always 20/20 when looking for this kind of stuff.
@@Okiesmokie I agree, that it's easier in hindsight. There is also "element of suprise" in the sense of not expecting it from a fair "sporting" event. Unless you have learned some magic or hussle, you might not even notice then.
Rewatching it I also noticed that he didn't present his deck to Tom to shuffle after. I figure Tom was too focused on his winning hand, but at the same time Jared put his deck back in the regular spot this giving Tom more of an opportunity to forget to shuffle it
Cheater is pretty bad at magic, too. 7:58 The commentary even calls it, he should have definitely cast bolt there. The odds of force + blue card are low, the odds of running into daze is even lower. The odds are likely he has pump card, disruption, and maybe second pump just based off the most common decklists + statistical pulls. Sure the guy can run hot, but I would take the bolt into a force any day here because 1. you're not going to beat a force here in this race 2. infect is a deck that requires a bit of gas and turning your bolt into mind rot isn't the worst in a scenario where you win in 2-3 turns, and 3. Inkmoth is a high priority target. If the bolt goes through, you basically get to walk the delver to victory. There is the small chance you draw your wasteland or stifle vs another threat or your own disruption, but you're actually just banking on your opponent's next draws being unusable disruption or another dude. Delver is all about tempo and controlling the pace of the game, which the guy on the right did none of ON TOP of cheating in the simplest of ways - mana go burr.
Jared reminds me of a friend i used to have, who ruined our friendship over an internet "group of friends". Just to have ALL of them, unfriend him and alienate him just 2 months later because of his actions and behaviours towards others 😂😂
@@DooDee0608 tried to trash talk me, because my streaming was doing better than his. When confronted, he ignored me, and pretended I didn't exhist. Now he has no one and his "friends"all left HIM for his behaviours.
When I started playing MTG back in 'born of the gods' set and I started playing at a local spot on Friday nights. I never realized how many people would cheat against me until years later. It was pretty bad. I even had one guy mess up a combo deck, he fudged his combo halfway through and he threw a fit until I let him rewind his whole turn and try again, in which he messed up again, flipped the table, and walked out. It wasn't one of the examples of cheating, but I did stop playing there soon after
I feel like a lot of these cheaters could be eradicated if the rules required you to cut the deck once at the end of any shuffle sequence. Why has this rule not been implemented? At least require decks to be shuffled face down, not sideways.
The rules don't require a cut. Your opponent is allowed to cut, or shuffle the deck after you have shuffled. It's how the cheater got his hands on the deck in the first place. Our hero opted not to cut his deck after the villain stacked it. If our hero wanted to call a judge on the sideways shuffling, the villain would probably be given a warning. Potentially disqualified if it was a continuing issue.
@@JustPlainAwfulStreams I re-read your comment. Not a single time did you say you knew how shuffling worked in magic. Let's pretend they made it required to cut. Do you think the person cheating is going to remind them to cut? If you don't want someone to stack the deck on you, cut it. Simple as that.
@@paudeline 1. you search 2. you shuffle 3. offer opponent to shuffle 4. opponent shuffles 5. opponent gives deck back to you 6. you cut it. seems super simple and eliminates the chance that they can stack your deck. The responsibility of making the final cut of the deck should be on the deck owner and if they forget to cut their own deck, it should be treated just like we treat a "may trigger". What am I missing here? how would this be a bad idea?
@@manbeast_cs The way you described it is how it already works. It's a "may trigger". If you make cutting required without including a "May trigger", someone who forgets to cut is now cheating. Changing the rule would benefit cheaters, here is an example: Let's say I'm a player who cheats to win, you and I are playing a high stakes game. You use a fetchland at the end of my turn. I get a chance to shuffle my opponents deck, and stack it. I set it down where you normally keep it, and make small talk. While you are eager to draw your card for the turn, the small talk distracts you and you forget to cut. I notify the judge you have broken a rule. Now I've given you a bad card, and a warning from a judge. I catch you on it again you might even get a match loss, because you are breaking the rules. Cheaters will use any tool in their arsenal.
I hate cheaters. Literally no point in playing a game if you cheat, even if you win. You will always know it was illegitimate, looking over your shoulder. You may say that doesn't bother you but it always does.
Jokes on you! If you are running Kozilek as a Commander you want a 7 land hand ;P Great video as always! Keep it up dude :D Hope you get through these trying times happy and healthy
I don’t play Magic but I found this really interesting and easy to follow. Will the cheater face any repercussions for cheating, even though he didn’t win? I’d hope he’d receive at least a temporary ban, this is pretty cut and dry
He was in multiple featured matches on the Star City tournament circuit. they reviewed the videos of a lot of his matches and found him doing it multiple times. Ironically a guy was busted doing this who won a SSG 5k for the exact same shuffle cheats a week or two before Boetcher was caught from people reviewing coverage footage.
Man, I used to play Magic with a cheater that looked just like Boettcher. One game we played he had four Baneslayer Angels on the table and a fifth literally fell out of his sleeve like a comic.
@@R_J8 He just laughed knowing he was caught. You're talking about a guy that put duct tape over a card and wrote "Black Lotus" on it thinking people would let him proxy that in. And no, of course he didn't own a real Black Lotus either.
As a Magic player also named Jared, I'm glad Tom owned this dude and won this match. I'm embarrassed I share a first name with an infamous Magic cheater.
Ugh, I hate cheaters so much. They really ruin the fun of games. Thanks for the video Nikachu. In a sort of related-to-the-video story one of my favorite Standard decks I played was what I called Glistening Assault Swell turn two kill. Turn one land that taps for Green -> Glistener Elf pass and hope opponent plays nothing but a land turn one. Turn two land that taps for Red -> Assault Strobe and Groundswell on the Elf, attack for poison lethal. I had the combo actually work for me a few games and it always felt great.
I have not played MTG in over 20 years and I still love watching your videos.... I am tempted to start playing again :P I find it all pretty overwhelming now though >< Thanks for the amazing content!
@@NikachuMTG My LGS always lets us cut after somebody shuffles. With how often this stuff happens it's surprising it's not the norm everywhere. There are tons of MTG cheating videos and most of the deck manipulating cheats on display would be solved by simply not letting your opponent present you an uncut deck you then have to use.
I owned some MTG cards when I was younger. Played casually with my sister. Never picked it up later in life. But I do love this type content. Keep it up!
I suspect that if Tom had not drawn the land on the last turn that he may not have activated inkmoth and tried to win with just the pump spells, and counterspell backup. It was still lethal that way. Still a fine example, but I trust Tom Ross to have found the line that lets him go for lethal with the counterspell up.
Fun fact: My very first deck was the black/blue infect starter deck from Scars of Mirrodin back in 2012. I've loved infect, proliferate and plague counter since then. I don't really ever get an opportunity to play Magic anymore, but fun memories at least.
I like how the players shuffle the cards in their hands when thinking ... even when Tom had just two cards, he just shuffled them over and over while thinking.
Quick question. After you receive your deck back after the opponent shuffles, can you cut it once you get the deck back? Or is that not allowed? Always enjoy the content, helps me understand magic better!
@@azarisLP Can't you still do that? Because it seems awfully stupid that the opponent can "shuffle" your deck when presented for a cut, when shuffling allows way more manipulation then cutting
I made an infect deck after seeing Tom play it for years and I love it! Not always gonna get the matchup you’d like but turn two wins are fairly consistent if the opponent doesn’t have the right interaction
Wouldn't doubt it. On the competitive level people will watch vods of past events over and over to see what decks their opponents are playing so I'm sure he picked up the pattern of getting flooded with lands. Also in my short time of playing MTG having a poker face is as important as having lethal.
Thomas: Lightly shuffled his hand occasionally when nothing is happening. Jared: Compulsively wastes a stupid amount of time obnoxiously flicking his cards 24/7
@@bestaround3323 flicking cards is that obnoxious thing people do where they keep rapid speed grinding their cards together, and it provides a lot of opportunity to bend your cards or scratch the sleeves, thus marking them
I played with a guy who did this same thing, he always insisted on shuffling the deck for like 5 minutes and you would ALWAYS draw a land. It became a joke between our friend group behind his back. I countered him by creating a Rebel deck so I could use my mana to hunt for more and more rebels every turn. Took him a few games to realize I was on to him, (plus I started doing the same thing to him) then he always had me cut the deck after he shuffled for honesty. He also got kicked out of a tournament once for dealing off the bottom of his deck, just learn how to play the game!
I heard Tom’s deck was Infect and I immediately agreed, he *IS* indeed my hero lol 😂 Such a cool deck theme! I don’t have such a deck but I also have no one to play with nor no place to play at so.... Collecting still would just be a tease; if you understand my meaning but still.... SO cool a deck theme. And Tom with his taste in clothing and natural good looks, looks so cool!!
One way to fix this cheating issue is make it a rule where if you opponent shuffles your deck you can present your deck again for your opponent cut your deck as the last thing he does
I wonder if there are any instances in Magic tournaments of someone cheating against themselves and still winning. I once did that in Monopoly: Deal. Back in the day, my go-to cheat was stacking the deck so I would give myself 2 Deal Breakers and 3 Just Say No cards. There was one instance of me doing that, but somehow, my opponent (in this case, my dad) got all those cards. I managed to win despite that. Deal Breakers are powerful, but notoriously easy to avoid.
Opposite scenario but it reminds me of the kid in high school who would stack Exodia on top of his deck when we played yugioh. To get around this we introduced the shuffle your opponents deck rule, but you could cut yours after. He stopped cheating after that.
I remember playing 4th ed in high school. and this one guy would barely touch his cards to "tap" them, it was super obvious that he wanted the cards in a position where he could say they were "tapped" if someone called him on it, but also "untapped" if he needed to cast a spell and didn't have the mana for it. It didn't help that we also had to keep our eyes out for a klepto hanging around the school cafeteria that would just yoink the top half of your deck the moment you weren't looking, so just playing this game was already about as challenging as could be.
Click SUBSCRIBE because Cheaters HATE it! They don't want this channel to get too big!
so the takeaway I get from this always demand a cut no matter what when someone shuffles their or your own deck.
How dumb are these hacks not cutting after the other persons shuffle and not watching the shuffle for cheating! LOL
So did the cheat get banned from this video?
From a philosophical perspective, EVERY cheater cheats against him/herself, because they open themselves up for ruination every time AND the more they think they can get away with cheating, the less they try to gain mastery of the game itself, making them a worse player that needs cheating as a crutch.
The fact that the card that won the game says: "There's a hole in your plan" as flavor text, really is the icing on top of the irony cake
@F Nigs thats... exactly what it is though? The shuffle cheaters plan was to literally cheat wins. The problem is that he didn't think that MMAAAYYBBEEE the person who he gave the land to needed the land to win. 'There are holes in your plans.'
@F Nigs Ok Mr debby downer. No one cares, either way it's pretty funny.
@F Nigs Without starting a thread war it 100% is irony given the context
@F Nigs okay racist
@F Nigs Irony:
1. the expression of one's meaning by using language that normally signifies the opposite, typically for humorous or emphatic effect.
2. a state of affairs or an event that seems deliberately contrary to what one expects and is often wryly amusing as a result.
3. a literary technique, originally used in Greek tragedy, by which the full significance of a character's words or actions is clear to the audience or reader although unknown to the character.
Guy in the comments of an ironic situation presented in a youtube video tries to be cool by "educating" someone on the definition of irony, ironically has a wrong definition of irony in his head. :)
Semi related but beating someone that you didn’t know was cheating against you, is like the biggest ego boost, feels so good.
Even better to beat someone cheating if ya KNOW they cheated, but you STILL beat em by just being a better player.
eh doesnt feel good to beat someone who needs to cheat to win. feels like you beat someone who just sucks to much to win otherwise
@@jotv7224 idk man, putting plebs in their place feels nice.
Also when someone calls you a cheater but you arent. Just like a massive compliment.
I have a friend that always happens to have the same couple cards every commander game we play. That doesn't happen unless you cheat. I don't really mind though cause I still win. Sometimes I'll force him to let me cut his deck and he gets defensive cause he knows his good cards are on the top.
"our hero is playing infect" ...never thought I'd hear someone say that.
Tom Ross is my hero though, for other decks he popularized.
lmao yeah it felt wrong to hear that for me too
Lol what... Finishing games isn't something you all want to happen?
What are you talking about?
@@shakemorgan8449 infect is a good way to get targeted in more than a 1v1 scenario. It's like playing a turn one sol ring, arcane signet into burgeoning in a mono green deck and dropping 2 more lands on your opponents turn in a 4 player edh game. It's one of the "efficiency vs. fun" argument, and in non-tournament cases, especially just pick up games and edh games, usually ending the game fast is a bad thing
Hey, YGO player here. I really liked how you explained both players decks and their winconditions, as well as certain cards and plays throughout the VOD of the game. Since I am absolutely not familiar with MTG, this helped me by understanding why Jared played himself. Great video!
You’re welcome!
What a cringe comment
@@NikachuMTGYou’re an evangelist!
Totally agree as a hearthstone player who as a kid played YGO really appreciated it since I’ve never played MTG
The nice thing about some cheaters is that they tend to spend so much time learning to cheat seamlessly that they inevitably neglect how to play the game properly in the first place.
That's not the case here though. This guy knows what he's doing in the game. I hate that cheaters exist in the game, but trust me losing to Tom Ross isn't a bad thing. This guy is gooood. Was almost the triple crown state champion back in the day. Won 2 of the 3 state championships one year. 2HG, and sealed I believe and was undefeated going into top 8 of the standard portion. Not dropping a single game up to that point. Wasn't he also hired to review some of the modern horizon cards before they went to print? My point is putting this guy on the ropes isn't an easy thing to do. So this guy knows what he's doing.
That some bad cheating well from the eyes of a poker player that shuffle is so slow and you can see the card in the top deck not move once he found the card it's easier to see do to the flat color if it had two cooler just moving the hand up and down or tilting it back and forth a bit would give it a better ilusion of it changing. Look at a pro cheater in poker and you will see how to do what he did better and how it should be.
@@zileantimekeeper7464 omg, yes. Pro poker cheating. Love to to watch that. Bet it's sick.
@@trustmeiknow3828 Proof you can have 0 validity and still be used to make judgements. You'd think after thousands of years of scams card games would be completely invalid at this point.
No..its not like they sit there practicing cheating instead of the game. Youre clueless
Oh my God Jared botcher is in the screen cap hahaha! I've known Jared for years, when he won rookie of the Year it kind of shocked everybody in the area because we all knew he wasn't really that great of a player. And when it came out that he was a cheater we all nodded in understanding.
Albany NY mtg player reporting in...can confirm.
@@The_Skrub It was sad to see, but yeah. I lost to Jared in the semi finals of kirwains 1k. I'll always wonder.
Jared still isn't as blatant as Alex Bertoncini though. That dude almost seemed like he wanted you to know he was cheating you.
yeah lmao the locals knew
Played against him at the Albany Classic in 2013, Jund mirror and he 100% shuffle cheated me. Glad he was dumb enough to get caught eventually.
The power move is to keep one fetchland hands against this guy because you know you'll get two lands off of it
I know right! I was hoping for something like that, and would love to see a video where somebody does it!
I'm kind of amazed that Boettcher didn't realize that flooding your opponent with lands works against his use of mana tax counterspells.
Right?!
"Im gonna make you pay so much mana!"
"Also, here is more mana"
@@harmyb if they gave them a colorless land rather than a fetch it might have been better
@@mxspokes The thing is the way Boettcher cheated he doesn't choose the land makes it too obvious he just goes with first one he sees. Also fetchlands are preferable actually as you can stack another land when they crack it allowing you to chain together multiple turns of land draws.
The other problem though, is the deck he's facing. Most decks, including Infect., can lose if they flood out. What's the alternative though? Every card that isn't a land is either an infect creature that can kill you, a pump spell to pump a creature that can kill you, a counter spell to protect the creatures and pump spells that will kill you, or a cantrip that can help draw the opponent into these things.
So with no other obvious choice of what he should do, aside from not cheating of course, the guy just defaulted to the cheat that is likely so ingrained that it borders on automatic.
@@TLTQNemesis also makes his job easier as they take their lumps popping the land (take 1)
3:34 -- Boettcher also purposely has a sloppy playfield to provide additional opportunities to cheat. For example, he put his discard pile just to the left of his library, directly in the path of his card draw. That way, he can palm a card from his graveyard whenever he draws or picks up his library. He also exaggerates dragging the card along the matte's surface before adding it to his hand so it would seem even less obvious in the future when attempts to palm a card. If he gets caught, he'll just say, "Oops. Accidentally dragged the card with my draw."
reminds me of playing people who'd insist they only want to tap cards by tilting them 20 degrees so that they could gaslight you into believing something was/wasn't already tapped and just got bumped accidentally
@@SFtheWolf that's the worst lol I do that when I'm attacking with a creature with vigilance tho
"Cheaters don't think about strategy, they think about cheating" 😂
This is true to a large extent though. Their brains are wired to treat the cheating as an insta-win and this leads to shortsightedness as seen in the vid. Great vid, and look back as always.
I swear most Rust cheaters that use scripts are basically ignorant to how the actual core game is played without cheats, meaning they've played with the perspective of using cheats since the beginning of their play experience.
This is why cheating should be viewed as a set of tactics, not the overall gameplan. Just like you can play cards from your hand, you can also play a number of cheats. Understand the game, understand how and when to cheat.
Of course, cheating is wrong in card games. Don't do it. Especially when playing for real money (because that's stealing) and when playing for fun (because that's sad and mean).
So, just never.
@@PhazonOmega I've only cheating in magic once, was way more shy when I started playing so the idea of asking my group "Hey can I start with this card in my hand, I recently added it and want to test it out" never crossed my mind. Though I did at least leave it to chance and just placed the card I wanted near the middle and gave it to a pretty even cutter so I had the highest chance to get it.
Thankfully I've gotten way more outspoken and just ask, It's usually fine with them (Unless it's on the stronger side in which case I usually just give up 1 or 2 starting cards as a compromise)
I don't remember which pro it was, but they claimed they were on the same plane as Boettcher when he first qualified for the Pro Tour. After 15 minutes of chatting with Boettcher they came to the conclusion that "no way this guy made it to the Pro Tour on skill".
That's hilarious
that definitely happened
There is no way you could cheat your way into highlevel play without knowing what you're talking about
@skottlee8959 the real deal can always discern a fake
Best part about the end of that round is the flavor text for the spell pierce working well in that instance
Boettcher: Seems like there's a hole in your plan
Ross: Nah, the one with the hole in the plan is yours
I really enjoy these videos about cheaters, and this one is extra spicy watching him play himself.
The solution to this is to force players to cut the decks after shuffling to help minimize this style of cheating. The cut after shuffling is specifically meant to prevent a person from manipulating deck order.
that is a rule. the problem is when they cut or shuffle your deck after you shuffle.
In yugioh you're required to allow your opponent to cut anytime you go into deck. They aren't allowed to shuffle it unless you're starting a new game
@@MasikoY then that makes it easier for the searching player to stach their deck
@@0Asterite0 no it doesn't because your opponent can cut however they please. It isn't required to only be a half cut
@@MasikoY That's not how stacking works. Yoh stack the deck, and make it so you have creature card, magic card, trap card, etc. So no matter how they cut it, you're guaranteed a healthy mix of cards.
The benefits of playing infect go further than just "half the life total". The opponent has 10 "life", no life gain, and damage stacks up against creatures over multiple turns while regular damage gets cleared from creatures at each end step
Is proliferate the only mechanic that interacts with the poison counters?
@@animewatcha It's the only "mechanic" that interacts with poison counters but there are individual cards and effects that interact with it. There are cards that interact with counters in general which can be used to interact with them, which is how proliferate ineracts with it.
My playgroup house rules out poison counters on players because I love infect and wither but we ALL hate the 10 life part.
Edit:obvs that wouldn't work here, at a competition. Just saying in case someone else is in a similar (casual) boat, you got options!😊
The shitty sourpuss look from Jared at the end made me so happy. He screwed up, and the fact that he was a cheater made me even happier. I remember watching all these games, and then hearing about his cheating and watching him back. Seeing how "smooth" he was when he did his sleight of hand manipulation was kind of cool, because it gave me something more to look out for. I'm also concerned with the judges not telling him off for a literal almost 30 seconds of shuffling his opponent's deck. To me, that's a little too much time spent shuffling, and that could interfere with the gamestate as well. If this was another deck, Tom could have had Ponder, Preordain, Brainstorm, Portent, any number of cantrips, and he's taking too much time for that.
AS AN EDIT: Yes, I did go back to the actual match, and watched the timer for the shuffle. It was a literal 25 seconds. As in it starts at I think 3:46 and goes until 4:11.
there are 2 people comentating the match, couldn´t they get someone to shuffle the denks for playeres?
@@javierfito5077 That's not how Magci tournaments work. You must be able to shuffle your own deck unassisted, and it's not the Judge's responsibility to shuffle.
@@DarkestFiction well they need to be more on the look out for cheaters then
@@javierfito5077 the truth is, Boettcher was VERY good at the sleight of hand trick that allowed him to do it (obviously we can see it when we look back), and that was what was hard to see at the time. Nowadays, judges keep more of an eye on that kind of thing. It's just not something they thought about during that match because everything seemed on the up and up.
@@DarkestFiction maybe it should be changed so that it is the judges responsibility
Cheating in MTG is such a vibe killer. This game is supposed to be about having fun
Video was hilarious though 😂
The problem is some people think the game is about winning, and winning at any cost.
I mean it could be fun to have a power of friendship draw whatever card you need duel where both players get to "cheat".
@@bestaround3323 sure, but something like that is best left with a casual game among friends, not a tournament with hundreds of other players.
The first game of mtg I played I got a headache
Man, I don't even play MTG but I've been binge-watching your videos for the past hours lol you do such a fantastic job explaining what's going on that I don't feel like I'm missing anything
Awesome! Thanks for watching ☺️
Bootlicker
Lmao Jared is from my local area, I remember him ADAMANT that he didn’t do nothing and still maintains his innocence today. Someone said he wanted to return to professional magic a while back but decided against it.
Lol, “decided” against it
I had a guy in my hometown named Mikey “The Cheater” ----. This guy would cheat in every game and thought he was the best. We eventually just played him to catch him in the act. We tried getting him banned but the shop owner said he spent a lot of coin there and didn’t want ti lose that business. Lol what a joke!
@@Layaway_Virgin Well i am on the shop owner side, you can always just caught the cheater. But a shop owner needs the money
@@MrHardstylefever except only cheaters wants to spend money in a store where cheaters are allowed
@@Layaway_Virgin the best way to counter that is to gather everyone up when cheater shows up and walk out.
I caught a guy at the game store here doing this very thing real early in a tournament and informed the guy running it, a friend of mine. I dropped out and for the rest of the day watched every one of his games. I kept track of every time he touched an opponent's deck. At the end he was 33 for 33 or 100% land shuffle cheating. I was allowed to present the 1rst prize. I brought him and the young lady who he "beat" for first place. I presented her the prize and explained that the "winner" had disqualified himself by cheating and explained what he had been doing all day. He immediately denied it. Problem was, when I reported it during the very first game of the day ... they tournament runners put a secondary judge spying on him for the rest of the day. They had the same observations I did. They told him in front of a huge room full of people and banned him from the premises permanently. I went to go out to my ride a bit later and he was outside waiting for me. The guy I rode there with was with me .... he is a cop .... a swat cop. Never seen such a sore loser and cheater drive away so fast.
This is great but also maybe awful. Maybe the third placed who lost against him in semi finale would have beat the first place.
@@lordmalkom1675 maybe but the guy who runs the store, a l9ng time friend, wanted to make kind of a show out of the guy losing because he cheated and was thinking he was getting away with it. Also, earlier in the day he had said some pretty f-ed up stuff about the young woman he had ended up playing in the final. He is one of the "new era" players but has the "old boys club" mentality towards women playing magic. She only lost to him because he screwed her draws by shuffle cheating in both their games. She had him on the ropes but he set her up to get lands and screwed her game flow. This situation also got worse for him. The owner of the store owns 5 stores across 3 states and he ended banning the guy from any kind of tournaments permanently.... for any game in his stores ... not just magic.
Swift and epic justice.
Cheaters and bullies deep down are cowards. A little pressure and they pop. That's why I love crushing them and getting in their face.
And then everybody clapped
Gotta love the inward facing shuffle so he can see the bottom card with no problem whatsoever. Whenever I see the I am always on guard from there on out.
Every time I see that, I just say “Hey, I’m not saying you’re cheating, but shuffling a deck while glancing at the bottom cards is a pretty common cheating technique. You might not want to do that.” They always stutter and shuffle differently.
@@nicholasbehe6686 That is a very good thing to do. I wish more players did that. Sauce: I'm a L2 judge
Yeah, the only time I don't care is playing edh bc the decks are fucking enormous, shuffle that shit however you gotta to do it quickly baby lmao
@@nicholasbehe6686 I remember having this told to me on one of my first FNMs, when I was like... 13 or 14. I have problems shuffling because I don't have great motor skills, so this legit wasn't me trying to cheat, but it's good to keep things like that respectful because sometimes people actually don't know better.
I was always taught to hold the deck slightly to the left of center when shuffling, and turn my head almost entirely to the right to avoid having any sort of sight on the deck. Anyone who isn't willing to do that (or some of the other suggestions commenters had) doesn't have competitive integrity as a priority.
Imagine someone land shuffle cheats, and their opponent on their next turn goes "Oh thank god, now I can combo."
Oh played against Jared at gp Richmond back in 2014 or so. Something definitely felt off, I just couldn’t out my finger on it. After the games I told the guys I was with I thought he was cheating. Months later, he’s definitely cheating.
I can only imagine how bad he felt after that spell pierce was cast using the land he put on top of Ross's deck.
I actually beat Jared at an lgs a couple years ago, right after his ban was lifted. It was a modern tournament, beat him with my Puresteel Paladin storm deck. Felt good.
He wasn’t trying to cheat he wanted his opponent to win 🥇 he’s actually a good guy! 😂😂😂
My neighbor admitted to me he always used to cheat when we were kids. He would hide cards underneath pillows or stupid things near our game and pick them up when I was looking at my cards. I knew statistically he shouldn't be getting 1/60 cards game after game after game. I accused him of cheating one time and he threw a fit. Surprisingly, he thinks he's good at MTG and pokemon, yet nobody wants to play with him. Go figure.
Someone got caught cheating at my FNM. Dude was like 0-2 and ended up getting banned. Never really seems worth it to me. I love just playing magic too much to risk not being able to play it.
I started playing while I was like 10 and the amount of people that cheated against me and I didn’t feel comfortable calling anything out because I was so much younger than them was astounding. The only thing that kept me going to FNMs were drafts because I had fun building decks.
@@neckropemancer5416 my dad call me a cheater for playing counter spells
@@neckropemancer5416 To me it just shows a lack of skill and confidence in a person's overall ability to pilot whatever deck they are playing.
I guarantee there is a massive amount of cheating happening at every LGS around the world. If people do it with cameras on them... Lots of people love winning more than integrity.
@@DarkPikachuYTV any blue player cheats to some extend. No honor there
As a yugi player I gotta say. Guy on the left looks as if he's not just trying to win,but dab on them haters even more while doing it
"Wait, my cheating unit malfunctioned. You gotta give me a do-over!"-Jared
Gotta love that you really expose them MTG cheaters and explain what they do as well
Did anyone notice when Jared shuffled his deck for the last time, he fanned the top cards looking for something to help himself out of the situation?
I didn't until you pointed it out. Compare that to how he shuffles the opponent's deck and it's super obvious
@@jhow1323 it sucks that the casters can't call that stuff out.
@@GrumpyIan The casters didn't notice. Infact no one noticed for quite some time after this match was played. Hindsight is always 20/20 when looking for this kind of stuff.
@@Okiesmokie I agree, that it's easier in hindsight. There is also "element of suprise" in the sense of not expecting it from a fair "sporting" event.
Unless you have learned some magic or hussle, you might not even notice then.
Rewatching it I also noticed that he didn't present his deck to Tom to shuffle after. I figure Tom was too focused on his winning hand, but at the same time Jared put his deck back in the regular spot this giving Tom more of an opportunity to forget to shuffle it
This was epic. I play infect and know how much we need mana to protect.
Keep up the great content , my friend and catch ya on the flippity!
I feel bad about Thomas, he looks so desperate and grieving during the match
Cheater is pretty bad at magic, too.
7:58 The commentary even calls it, he should have definitely cast bolt there. The odds of force + blue card are low, the odds of running into daze is even lower. The odds are likely he has pump card, disruption, and maybe second pump just based off the most common decklists + statistical pulls. Sure the guy can run hot, but I would take the bolt into a force any day here because 1. you're not going to beat a force here in this race 2. infect is a deck that requires a bit of gas and turning your bolt into mind rot isn't the worst in a scenario where you win in 2-3 turns, and 3. Inkmoth is a high priority target.
If the bolt goes through, you basically get to walk the delver to victory. There is the small chance you draw your wasteland or stifle vs another threat or your own disruption, but you're actually just banking on your opponent's next draws being unusable disruption or another dude. Delver is all about tempo and controlling the pace of the game, which the guy on the right did none of ON TOP of cheating in the simplest of ways - mana go burr.
I love that you can see him stacking himself some kind of topdeck that he will never get to draw.
I usually end my shuffle of an opponent's deck with a cut on the table.
I like your style. I think this should be written into the rules that everyone cuts a deck after a shuffle.
@@NikachuMTG was that not already a rule that's how my buddies and I always play
@@NikachuMTGthat and the judge watching over the finals shuffles and cuts the decks.
When we play at our local game store, we shuffle our own decks, and then an opponent cuts it.
Jared reminds me of a friend i used to have, who ruined our friendship over an internet "group of friends". Just to have ALL of them, unfriend him and alienate him just 2 months later because of his actions and behaviours towards others 😂😂
What did he do ?
@@DooDee0608 tried to trash talk me, because my streaming was doing better than his. When confronted, he ignored me, and pretended I didn't exhist.
Now he has no one and his "friends"all left HIM for his behaviours.
so how is Ohm nowadays?
@@jeremychives idk but i don’t care enough to find out
Always loved watching The Boss playing back when I followed pro MtG. Favorite player by far. Super skilled but also incredibly humble and nice.
Thanks!
You can see how nervous Jared becomes every time he cheats. His leg starts tapping/shaking. Sign of fear of being caught.
Technically he didn't lose to his opponent, he won against himself.
When I started playing MTG back in 'born of the gods' set and I started playing at a local spot on Friday nights. I never realized how many people would cheat against me until years later. It was pretty bad. I even had one guy mess up a combo deck, he fudged his combo halfway through and he threw a fit until I let him rewind his whole turn and try again, in which he messed up again, flipped the table, and walked out. It wasn't one of the examples of cheating, but I did stop playing there soon after
I feel like a lot of these cheaters could be eradicated if the rules required you to cut the deck once at the end of any shuffle sequence. Why has this rule not been implemented? At least require decks to be shuffled face down, not sideways.
The rules don't require a cut. Your opponent is allowed to cut, or shuffle the deck after you have shuffled. It's how the cheater got his hands on the deck in the first place. Our hero opted not to cut his deck after the villain stacked it. If our hero wanted to call a judge on the sideways shuffling, the villain would probably be given a warning. Potentially disqualified if it was a continuing issue.
@@paudeline uh, yes. I know this. Re-read my comment. I'm asking why they haven't changed the rules to require a cut.
@@JustPlainAwfulStreams I re-read your comment. Not a single time did you say you knew how shuffling worked in magic. Let's pretend they made it required to cut. Do you think the person cheating is going to remind them to cut? If you don't want someone to stack the deck on you, cut it. Simple as that.
@@paudeline 1. you search 2. you shuffle 3. offer opponent to shuffle 4. opponent shuffles 5. opponent gives deck back to you 6. you cut it. seems super simple and eliminates the chance that they can stack your deck. The responsibility of making the final cut of the deck should be on the deck owner and if they forget to cut their own deck, it should be treated just like we treat a "may trigger". What am I missing here? how would this be a bad idea?
@@manbeast_cs The way you described it is how it already works. It's a "may trigger". If you make cutting required without including a "May trigger", someone who forgets to cut is now cheating. Changing the rule would benefit cheaters, here is an example:
Let's say I'm a player who cheats to win, you and I are playing a high stakes game. You use a fetchland at the end of my turn. I get a chance to shuffle my opponents deck, and stack it. I set it down where you normally keep it, and make small talk. While you are eager to draw your card for the turn, the small talk distracts you and you forget to cut. I notify the judge you have broken a rule. Now I've given you a bad card, and a warning from a judge. I catch you on it again you might even get a match loss, because you are breaking the rules.
Cheaters will use any tool in their arsenal.
*Being able to cheat himself and lose the match is tremendous work, he's a genius*
I hate cheaters. Literally no point in playing a game if you cheat, even if you win. You will always know it was illegitimate, looking over your shoulder. You may say that doesn't bother you but it always does.
Jokes on you! If you are running Kozilek as a Commander you want a 7 land hand ;P
Great video as always! Keep it up dude :D
Hope you get through these trying times happy and healthy
Tom Ross is always our hero. I think I watched this tournament live years ago, that look on Jared's face is very familiar.
I don’t play Magic but I found this really interesting and easy to follow. Will the cheater face any repercussions for cheating, even though he didn’t win? I’d hope he’d receive at least a temporary ban, this is pretty cut and dry
I think he was banned for 3-4 years. But that was long ago. He's unbanned now.
@@NikachuMTG looking forward to your next video on him when he inevitably reoffends ;)
@@rorobear1940
From what I hear he hasn't gotten into MTG since, even after his ban was lifted, so that's doubtful
He was in multiple featured matches on the Star City tournament circuit. they reviewed the videos of a lot of his matches and found him doing it multiple times. Ironically a guy was busted doing this who won a SSG 5k for the exact same shuffle cheats a week or two before Boetcher was caught from people reviewing coverage footage.
@@coranbaker6401 Not surprising. Who'd want to play against him? I'd demand a judge live at my table and make them shuffle my deck.
There should be a rule preventing this type of cheating from happening in the first place. This type of shuffle shouldn't be possible.
If you can have casters casting it why don’t you just get a neutral party to shuffle the deck.
Great play-by-play explanation! It’s very easy to follow even for a casual player that hasn’t touched MTG in a long time like me. Thanks!
You’re welcome!
Another great Nikachu video, such a breath of fresh air seeing a shuffle cheat get got
Man, I used to play Magic with a cheater that looked just like Boettcher. One game we played he had four Baneslayer Angels on the table and a fifth literally fell out of his sleeve like a comic.
How did he explain that one? Lmao
@@R_J8 He just laughed knowing he was caught. You're talking about a guy that put duct tape over a card and wrote "Black Lotus" on it thinking people would let him proxy that in. And no, of course he didn't own a real Black Lotus either.
Love the way you explained things! Ive never played MTG but it made it easier for me to see what was going on
Thanks!
You actually do a great job breaking down the play-by-play. I'm still a noob but thanks for making me a bit of a better player!
Glad I could help!
cheating is such a sad, unsatisfying way to win cuz when you go to sleep that night *you know* you actually lost.
they don't look at it like that, but they should.
As a Magic player also named Jared, I'm glad Tom owned this dude and won this match. I'm embarrassed I share a first name with an infamous Magic cheater.
Ugh, I hate cheaters so much. They really ruin the fun of games.
Thanks for the video Nikachu.
In a sort of related-to-the-video story one of my favorite Standard decks I played was what I called Glistening Assault Swell turn two kill. Turn one land that taps for Green -> Glistener Elf pass and hope opponent plays nothing but a land turn one. Turn two land that taps for Red -> Assault Strobe and Groundswell on the Elf, attack for poison lethal. I had the combo actually work for me a few games and it always felt great.
nice video. i dont play mtg, i play yugioh, and yet i could understand everything that happened! keep up the content man!
Thanks, will do! I love my Yugioh fam!
Hugely appreciative of the intro to the decks and how he cheats. Really appreciate that, boss.
You bet!
This was so satisfying to watch. Thanks for these videos Nikachu :)
My pleasure!
I have not played MTG in over 20 years and I still love watching your videos.... I am tempted to start playing again :P I find it all pretty overwhelming now though >< Thanks for the amazing content!
You should! It's not so bad, you just need to know how your deck works :P
Why not have the judge cut the decks in tournaments?
They'd need way too many judges in early rounds, and this method of cheating is pretty easy to spot once they get to livestreamed games like this.
Always cut after a shuffle. I presented my deck to be cut, not to be shuffled. You shuffle it, I'm cutting it.
we aren't allowed a final cut in Magic.
@@NikachuMTG My LGS always lets us cut after somebody shuffles.
With how often this stuff happens it's surprising it's not the norm everywhere. There are tons of MTG cheating videos and most of the deck manipulating cheats on display would be solved by simply not letting your opponent present you an uncut deck you then have to use.
My favorite part is when Jared scoop and looked up. And said to himself ( that was a wrong move. I should have put basic island instead of fetch 😆😆😆)
What happens to Jared afterwards? Did he get banned, or retire from pro magic in shame?
he got banned for years but he's currently unbanned. I dont know if he still plays Magic.
I owned some MTG cards when I was younger. Played casually with my sister. Never picked it up later in life. But I do love this type content. Keep it up!
I will!
i honestly love nikachu's videos, love when i see the new ones.
Thanks! I love my videos too! ☺️
I suspect that if Tom had not drawn the land on the last turn that he may not have activated inkmoth and tried to win with just the pump spells, and counterspell backup. It was still lethal that way.
Still a fine example, but I trust Tom Ross to have found the line that lets him go for lethal with the counterspell up.
Fun fact: My very first deck was the black/blue infect starter deck from Scars of Mirrodin back in 2012. I've loved infect, proliferate and plague counter since then.
I don't really ever get an opportunity to play Magic anymore, but fun memories at least.
"Or your starting hand will be 7 lands"
*Looks down at Borborygmos Enraged deck*
Yeah, I can work with it
My girlfriend who doesn't play Magic followed your commentary and explanations and enjoyed the video. Great job man!
That’s great! She must be proud to be dating someone so strong that he can beat cheaters! 💪🏽
Wow I cannot believe Thomas cheated by having Jared guarantee him a land.
Jared "the giver of mana" is never happy to help even if that is all he does.
I have no clue to magic the gathering but I really like his simple explanations so I have an idea on how they work. Great job!!
Glad you enjoyed it! I made sure everyone can understand and appreciate it!
That was a great way to show how cheating doesn't help
I like how the players shuffle the cards in their hands when thinking ... even when Tom had just two cards, he just shuffled them over and over while thinking.
Quick question. After you receive your deck back after the opponent shuffles, can you cut it once you get the deck back? Or is that not allowed? Always enjoy the content, helps me understand magic better!
no the opponent is supposed to be the one who cuts to stop you from manipulating your own deck
you absoultely can't
Used to be you could ask a judge to shuffle the deck instead.
in pokemon if your opponent picks up your deck and shuffles it you are allowed to make one cut afterward
@@azarisLP Can't you still do that? Because it seems awfully stupid that the opponent can "shuffle" your deck when presented for a cut, when shuffling allows way more manipulation then cutting
The other guy is just like "Man, I am getting really lucky with these mana draws
No one in the history of MTG cheated a Mox Opal into play, but the opponent always felt cheated out of a win.
Thomas always looks so stressed when he plays, even when he's about to smash in for the game. Always found that a little funny.
the game is never over until it's over
I made an infect deck after seeing Tom play it for years and I love it! Not always gonna get the matchup you’d like but turn two wins are fairly consistent if the opponent doesn’t have the right interaction
You’re good at explaining the game. I don’t know jack about magic and I understood fully well how this clown did himself in
Thanks!
That pissed-off look on Jared's face at the end is very satisfying
Almost makes you wonder if Ross knew about the cheating style and encouraged it because of the strategy of the opposing deck. XD
👍
Wouldn't doubt it. On the competitive level people will watch vods of past events over and over to see what decks their opponents are playing so I'm sure he picked up the pattern of getting flooded with lands.
Also in my short time of playing MTG having a poker face is as important as having lethal.
Bro i found this channel at midnight last night and proceeded to stay up till 2:30 just watching videos. I like this guy
Welcome aboard!
Thomas: Lightly shuffled his hand occasionally when nothing is happening.
Jared: Compulsively wastes a stupid amount of time obnoxiously flicking his cards 24/7
I don't get how card flicking isn't banned. It's not like these turns take forever. Imagine if people in chess flicked their captured pieces around.
@@Xuriouss I know right? It’s a very easy way to mark cards mid-game too, letting people cheat on game 2 after deck inspection
What do you mean by flicking cards? How can it be used to mark cards?
@@bestaround3323 flicking cards is that obnoxious thing people do where they keep rapid speed grinding their cards together, and it provides a lot of opportunity to bend your cards or scratch the sleeves, thus marking them
I played with a guy who did this same thing, he always insisted on shuffling the deck for like 5 minutes and you would ALWAYS draw a land. It became a joke between our friend group behind his back. I countered him by creating a Rebel deck so I could use my mana to hunt for more and more rebels every turn. Took him a few games to realize I was on to him, (plus I started doing the same thing to him) then he always had me cut the deck after he shuffled for honesty.
He also got kicked out of a tournament once for dealing off the bottom of his deck, just learn how to play the game!
I heard Tom’s deck was Infect and I immediately agreed, he *IS* indeed my hero lol 😂
Such a cool deck theme! I don’t have such a deck but I also have no one to play with nor no place to play at so.... Collecting still would just be a tease; if you understand my meaning but still.... SO cool a deck theme. And Tom with his taste in clothing and natural good looks, looks so cool!!
4:34 Is there a reason to cast ligningbolt during his own turn and not in response to a pump spell targeting glistner elf?
the infect player might defend with more pump spells or counterspells. Sometimes it's good to just get rid of the creature while you can.
One way to fix this cheating issue is make it a rule where if you opponent shuffles your deck you can present your deck again for your opponent cut your deck as the last thing he does
7:40 geeeez am I the only person who would get annoyed at someone shuffling my deck for this long mid game
My favorite part was when Tom beat the cheater
I wonder if there are any instances in Magic tournaments of someone cheating against themselves and still winning. I once did that in Monopoly: Deal. Back in the day, my go-to cheat was stacking the deck so I would give myself 2 Deal Breakers and 3 Just Say No cards. There was one instance of me doing that, but somehow, my opponent (in this case, my dad) got all those cards. I managed to win despite that. Deal Breakers are powerful, but notoriously easy to avoid.
Opposite scenario but it reminds me of the kid in high school who would stack Exodia on top of his deck when we played yugioh. To get around this we introduced the shuffle your opponents deck rule, but you could cut yours after. He stopped cheating after that.
As a person who knows absolutely nothing about this game I was very confused…but seeing a cheater lose is always satisfying!
i like the upwards sideways glance at the end as you can see Jared think "did i do this?"
I remember playing 4th ed in high school. and this one guy would barely touch his cards to "tap" them, it was super obvious that he wanted the cards in a position where he could say they were "tapped" if someone called him on it, but also "untapped" if he needed to cast a spell and didn't have the mana for it.
It didn't help that we also had to keep our eyes out for a klepto hanging around the school cafeteria that would just yoink the top half of your deck the moment you weren't looking, so just playing this game was already about as challenging as could be.
Have to say, his shuffle is slick. I know a kid who got really into card magic and could definitely pull a fast one of you weren't careful
I think its funny to see how the both keep fidgeting lol 'let me shuffle these TWO cards in my hand, that will help me think..'