Bad umpire call? See if you know the correct call.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ม.ค. 2020
- Would you agree with this umpire and call the runner out? Or, is he safe? Put your answer in comments. What's the call and why. LLWS between NY and NJ in 2019. New York vs New Jersey.
The Little League World Series usually uses volunteer umpires that are not used to being on a four man team and can make mistakes. Baseball is, after all, an imperfect game. This clip is quick, but in real time it took about five minutes to get the call correct. How long will it take you?
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Safe. He tagged up. Now he has to be physically tagged to be out, which he was not.
Polk Nole Runner on first and second so the runner from first goes to second the runner on second has to go to third because the kid that hit it has to go to first so the runners need to advance
@@mischevious6787 No sir, not on a catch. The batter runner is OUT and the runners only advance after they tag up if they choose to as there is no longer any force on. This is why the 2B runner must be tagged to be out, which he was NOT.
Mischevious Nope. The back runner can be tagged out, the front runner holds all the marbles. He doesn’t need to go anywhere.
Safe
Polk Nole correct. This is so clearly a crap call. Is there some weird little league rule I’m unaware of? Otherwise this is a terrible call his foot was on the bag until after the catch. He could have taken off for third.
safe, his foot was on 2nd when the ss caught it. so he needed to be tagged because there was no force out
Yes there was when somone catch's the ball you have to go back to your previous base so there was a force
I watched it in .25 playback speed and he was out
@@flappybird3983 no because he was on the bag when he caught it
@@ccsportsworld6312 I also watched it in .25 and his foot was on the bag while the ss caught it as it would be a tag not a force
Fac
He is safe because he was on the bag when they caught the ball so they would of had to tag him.
It’s a force at second YALL are dumb
Well it is a force at second the force is for the first runner not the second which is why he was safe because of no tag.
He is so safe! He clearly tagged up and left the bag after the catch which then the kid would have to tag him out for it is no longer a force play at second!
The call, after the umpires went to video review, was changed to safe. The runner had tagged up and therefore needed to be tagged to be put out.
That's not what you said in your commentary of the video - you said that the umpires made the correct call when they called the runner out.
@@johnproffitt3272 Listen to it again. He says "...they do rule correctly, which is either safe or out." MJH wants you to figure out what the correct call is that the umps finally made. Yes the video shows the umps getting together and one of them making an out call but then it also shows an ump on the phone, I am assuming he is checking with higher ups, to get the final ruling.
@@johnproffitt3272 I had to check that out again myself. He said, "They do rule correctly," as the video shows the ump signalling out. That gave an appearance that they eventually ended up ruling out, but that was apparently the ump reaffirming his call on the field before the replay had been viewed.
@@tubehound69 it does not matter he was safe. He tagged up, so he has to physically get tagged. If you don't believe me then pause it immediately after you click this ( 1:20 )
@@papapete747 Ummmm. I do believe your reading comprehension needs some work. I was telling John Proffitt that he was wrong in thinking MJH Baseball said he was out.
The runner should be safe. He tagged up meaning the only way the Fielding team can get him out is by touching him something they didn't do.
or being thrown too third because their was a runner on first for the force out
nevermind im wrong it needed to be tagged out only
Safe, he was on second when they caught it they would've had to tag him out.
This is true but he could have been off from our angle it looked as if her were on when the catch was made but from the official's prospective he could have been off when the catch was made resulting in an out from the fly ball and an out because he was just off the bag when the catch was made.
They didn't need to tag him I play baseball he is out
He's O U T
He his OUT
Nah, he’s safe, it’s not a force play. He was on the bag.
I also play baseball.
He is Perfectly safe, like others said, he did not leave the bag early, making it a tag up, therefore you have to tag the runner in order to be out, so the force-out is not in play.
No You don’t it’s a force at the bag
@@skyl4444 force at second base (if he left the bag early which he didn’t) and tag at third
He’s safe because his foot was on the bag when the player caught the ball(tagged up)
Now he has to be tagged out and he was not therefore he is safe
Safe, the umpire thought the guy hadn’t tagged up so he thought it was a force play
Totally agree
I agree
No ur wrong they got the ball to the bag before he touched it so he was out
@@toiyler He left the bag after the catch was made, so it is no longer a tag-up situation.
Same
It's a really good teachable moment of not turning your back on the play. Otherwise he would have seen the player not leave the base until the catch was made.
I have played baseball since I was two years old, and he tagged up
I haven't played much baseball at all, but I still know he was safe.
He's safe, when the second baseman caught the ball, he didn't tag the runner, the runner tagged up, and wasn't tagged by the second baseman, so he wasn't out- It doesn't work like it does on first where you can just get the ball, step on the bag, and he's out, so the runner on second was safe, the ump just made a bogus call on that play-
It was a force but he was safe
Short stop
Good answer
Short stop made the play.
think you are a bit confused with your comment about the play being different on 1st...if the 1st base runner did exactly what the 2nd base runner did here, he would also have to be tagged out, there would be no force out on 1st base if the 1st base runner had tagged up.
Safe. Doesn't he have to tag the runner? The runner had tagged the base after the catch then stepped off so a force wasn't in play, I think. Love these!
Careful ... using the term "force" or "force out" on retag plays can be troublesome. If the third out is made on a true force play, any runs crossing the plate before the time of the force out do not count. This is not the case when the third out is on a retag play where the base is touched by a fielder holding the ball and touching the base before a runner retags on a caught fly ball. In this case runs crossing the plate before this third out is made do count. The key is whether a runner is forced to advance by a following runner.
The thing is, it isn't a re-tag play; it is infield fly rule, which by definition, the batter is out and the runners on base are not required to run but may at their own risk, so yes, he would be safe.
It is a tag-the-runner play
@@TPinesGold Correct. I will point out one exception to this. Using this same scenario, plus a runner on third. If the runner on third does not 'Tag UP' when there are two outs, there can be a play made to third base by a fielder touching the base in possession of the ball. The scoring run from third base will not count. It's called the Fourth Out Rule. (maybe LL does not recognize this rule, but the bigs do).
@@justyourlocalbernana1823 it's an infield fly ONLY if the umpire declares audibly while the ball is in the air. There was no audio of the actual game so one can only assume it may have been an infield fly.
Safe because it was infield fly rule and the runners can advance at their own risk the runner would have to be tagged for him to be out
Runner on first and second does not initiate the infeild fly rule and the ball was in the out field when it was cault
Tbh, I thought the infield fly rule should have applied as well. First and second with less than two outs. But that's a judgment call, and you can't review that. No umpire judged it so you couldn't reverse that on review. On review they would have seen the runner's foot on the bag as the catch was made, and he was never tagged while off the base. When you watch, note how terribly out of position the umpire was. He wasn't even watching the runner on the bag, he was running the other way.
@@calvinmellmann2899 despite the name, the ball doesn't have to stay in the infield for the rule to be applied.
@Binded Gaming it is not automatically applied. it can only be applied when there are runners on at least 1st and 2nd, but it is not automatically applied. it is a judgement call that has to be called by the umpire. it was not called on this play.
He's safe, he had to be tagged out because there was no force play anymore
HES OUT I WATCHED IT IN SLOW MO
@@racer6553 it doesn’t matter you have to tag to get the out
Oh yeah I forgot he tagged up and sorry caps
Safe. Runner attempted to tag up but retreated. Throw to second isn't a force out so the tag needs to be physical.
You’re right about the runner in this scenario having to be tagged, but don’t forget that in a situation where a runner is doubled off via tagging the base, it isn’t a force out but rather a timing play.
He tagged him on the elbow before he touched the base.
@@EdwardAndersen no there was no tag. The second baseman was reaching to catch the ball and did not even attempt to tag him.
He was safe he was on the bag when he caught the ball so he had to physicly tagged
He never left until ball was caught so he would have to tag him.
He is safe.
Explanation: The shortstop caught the ball, but he was on the base when the ball was caught. So the runner has to be tagged to be out, not by force play. That runner basically tagged up. So I say he’s safe.
technically not a force but rather an appeal. and yes the appeal would be denied because he was on the base and the runner needed to be tagged
First this should have been ruled an infield fly, it wasn't. - But even if it was ruled an infield fly and the fly ball is caught, a timing appeal play to 2nd would be possible. The runner was still in contact with 2nd base when the shortstop first touched the ball (1:20). The 2nd base umpire was in a poor position, was not looking to line up the catch (touch) with the runner leaving 2nd base, and thus just missed the call. easy call if he was in the correct positioning.
He’s safe. He tagged up after the ball was caught. And the second baseman didn’t tag him when he went back.
He tagged up and the 2nd baseman would have to tag him, he had the ball and it was an out if he didn’t tag up. So he was safe
it’s a rice out
He was safe for 2 reasons, 1, runner tagged up from second meaning it was a tag play, 2, it SHOULD have been an infield fly which the runner would also have to be tagged, so either way he was safe
I read the other day that in some leagues the infield fly rule is not a judgement call and in some cases the infield fly declaration does not need to be stated in order for the rule to be in effect. I suspect in all cases when an infiled fly rule may be declared that the fielder should allow the ball to fall to the ground before throwing the runner's out in various order depending on whether or not the rule was declared.
Even if an infield fly, and there is no force play because the batter would be out, doesn't the runner still have to tag up until the ball is caught?
Let me fix it for you.............."it COULD have been an infield fly"
@@johnmichael9581 of course the runners still have to tag, unless the ball is dropped, which it wasnt. On this play, it wouldnt have mattered if the infield fly rule was called or not. The ump wasnt in position to see the catch & the tag, but werent there 3 other umpires who couldve stepped in to help?
Hey great video
Ump really blew it! On a national stage!
No one is pointing out that the umpire was not in position to make the call at all. At the time of the catch he is hustling to get there (able to see the catch and runner simultaneously), but his back is to the shortstop and he can only view 2nd base. So he has no way of knowing if the runner was in contact with the base at the moment the fly ball touches the fielder’s glove. Old adage: don’t call an out, unless you see an out!
He's safe. Runner tagged up, at that point he must be tagged out
One of the Umpires must have called infield fly.
Tagged up doesnt matter....play was already dead....runner although needs to be tagged out.....runner can advance ay their own risk.
Exactly
Your all wrong. He only needs to be tagged if he tried to advance to 3rd. If hes running back to his original base he donned to be tagged.
@@mariocanales9274 wouldnt have mattered. Runner can still come off the base once the ball is touched by the fielder.
A force play is when a runner is "forced" to advance by way of the batter becoming a runner. As the fly ball was caught, the batter was out, he did not become a runner, and the base runners were not "forced" to advance.
Tag ups / no tag ups are not force plays. They are appeal plays. Appeal plays can be spoken or unspoken. In this case, it was an unspoken attempt at an appeal play at second on the tag-up. The runner's foot was on the base when the ball was caught. So, on the appeal, the runner was actually safe, as was made clear after the actual play at the time.
Well good point
He tagged up so it would take a tag of the runner off the base for him to be out.
Clearly he tagged up, and is therefore safe. I think the more important issue is whether the ump should have called an infield fly. Short stop was camped under the ball, and it was an easy catch.
Tagged up he needs to tag
He was hoping the fielder of the ball would make an unforced error when throwing it back to second. Mind play by the runner.
I love this channel. Keep it up.
Safe. He tagged up, so he has to physically get tagged. If you don't believe me then pause it immediately after you click this ( 1:20 )
There was no force, the kid tagged up
He tagged up. So they can't get him out by a force play, unless the tag was placed in time he's safe.
a non-tag-up is not a force play. A force is when a runner is "forced" to the next base by reason of the batter becoming a runner. This is an appeal play.
He’s safe. He tagged up force is gone.
Infield fly batters out , runner at 2nd out as well
@@spannoschannel599 The base runner left after the catch was made, how could he possible be out?
First, in field fly rule should have been called. Batter is out.
Second, R2 did return to tag and subsequently left the bag AFTER THE CATCH!. Now we have a tag scenario. Tag was not applied as such we now have a runner on second 2 outs. WHAT WAS SO COMPLICATED? But remember these are little league umpires!!!!
Actually did he tag up? Cuz that was close and there was no infield fly rule considering it was kinda far back but idk the only issue with it is if he was off before the catch
@@dougthegreat1808 but the only issue is if he had his foot off or not
He’s safe. Gotta tag him if he leaves after the catch.
No it’s a force out
@@westinhoutekamer4453 no it isnt. The runner tagged up. Takes off the force right there...
@@westinhoutekamer4453 ru braindead or something?
He tagged, he’s safe
He needs to be tagged so safe
Safe; he would be protected by infield fly rule, and he tagged up.
I agree
Same
No Bc that was in the outfield it’s a force if they catch the pop fly so he is out
@SudZ AroB
No, the infield fly rule states: If an infielder is reasonably able to catch the ball without extraordinary effort, the umpire may call an infield fly rule. The shortstop caught it without moving much.
@@justyourlocalbernana1823 ya I just rewatched it I didn’t realize he tagged up to my bad your 💯 right
Safe, not only was it a close race to the bag, but the runner had not been tagged.
He taged aerly u dont need to tag him your wrong
Wrong he is out on force cause runner of 1rst
@@laurasindahl8408 No force on a caught ball. You do not have to advance
@@laurasindahl8408 the ball was caught in the air, so neither runner is forced to advance.
Out you could see in the slow mow that the ball hit second before he was on the bag
Runner is out on the throw back to 2nd. Go to the 1:46 mark, in slo-mo, you can see the fielder catch the ball before runner puts his foot on the bag. Great BANG-BANG call Blue!!!!
You're missing the point, Scott. Just as the umpire did. The runner had to be tagged in this situation. He was not, and therefore he should be safe
On the slow-mo replay he looks safe to me. As soon as the ball contacts the glove the runner can step off. I dont how the umpire could have been in a better position. He hustled as soon as the ball went up to try to get the lineup to see both runner and catch. Really the first base umpire should have had his partners back and told him in the huddle that he missed but mistakes happen. Full speed it's really close. I just remembered the infield fly was in effect. The batter was automatically out but the runner is still responsible to tag up. He left after first contact so he had to be tagged in order to be put out.
yes, he hustled, but he had his back to the shortstop when the ball was caught. It APPEARED that the runner was not on the base when the ball was first touched by the SS to the umpire, but that was because he couldnt see both the catch and runner from his angle. He wouldve been served better to not worry about button hooking into the infield. Just open up and see the whole play. Also, those saying infield fly, I disagree. It wasnt hit that high
MP TR the ball was hit high enough, but was it caught with “ordinary effort”? The shortstop had to turn his back to the infield to get under the ball. At this level, is that ordinary effort?
@@craigjorgensen5895 quit with the infield fly crap, it doesn't matter since the ball was caught. Infield fly would have ONLY mattered if they had called it AND the ball was not caught...but the runners would have needed to be tagged in either case since the kid had tagged up, and in the case of an infield fly ruling that the ball was dropped, it would not have been force outs either...tag plays bc the batter would have been out and not forcing them anywhere.
@@cheeto225 I was responding to MP TR’s comment that the ball wasn’t hit high enough to be an infield fly, and noting that the criteria also includes “ordinary effort”. I debated nothing else, so if you’re looking for a fight, look elsewhere skippy.
He was on The base when ball was caught....safe
Jarrod Dale while you are correct, the rule says on first touch not catch. The reason is that a highly skilled player may bobble the ball on purpose in order to prevent a runner from advancing.
@@matthewscott5977 Exactly. Some new players (adults, as usually we don't play baseball since childhood in Brazil) ask if they could bring the ball bubbling the ball from outfield before the catch.
First of all no the ball wasn’t caught before he back to the bag, and 2nd of all that’s not why he’s safe anyway, he had to be tagged
I keep seeing a reference to force play. This play has nothing to do with a force play. In this case, the umpire made a bad call on a live ball appeal play. Had the runner not tagged up and the second base touches the bag with the ball in his glove, the runner would be out on an appeal, not a force play.
He was on the bag when caught
Safe
Bro I would have called an infield fly first of all
yes, agreed, that's a clear infield fly. however calling IFF may not have changed anything...
Absolutely right
Safe. He was on the bag when the catch was made which made him eligible to advance and the only way he can be called out is by being tagged
Don’t know if he tagged up on the fly ball
He is safe because he was on 2nd when he caught it so that would make it a tag play because it’s not a force
He’s safe because he’s has to tag him because he was on the bag man blues these days
Definitely safe, pretty sure the umpire didn't realize he had tagged. Also, looks like it should have been called an infield-fly.
@Fugp Basis However what "could have" happened is not the rule.
@@eullerich “could have” is part of the rule
@@hehincredible7615 Here's the one in my rule book: Rule 2.00 defines the Infield Fly as, “a fair fly ball (not including a line drive or a bunt) which can be caught by an infielder with ordinary effort....
@@hehincredible7615 Which rule are you looking at that says "could have" dropped?
@@eullerich every player won’t catch it
He was definitely tagging up. He’s safe without a doubt. He didn’t go off the base till he caught it. He’s safe. Terrible call blue!
It's a wrong call. Not a terrible call, the timing was close, especially if that umpire was looking at the infielder who was catching the ball and misjudged the timing. Wrong, but not terrible.
He had to tag the runner to get the out
He’s Safe He tagged up so he needs to be tagged. He obviously wasn’t
Safe, he was on the base when get caught it so it would be ruled as tagging up, the second baseman would have to tag him
And he does tag him before the runner got back to second base. Have a look at 1:24, the runner gets tagged out.
@@jasondousett3620 No he didn't there was no tag what so ever. I looked from both available angles.
He was on the bag when the ball was caught and the second baseman DID NOT TAG HIM. He was NOT OUT!
Cannot know unless we know if the infield fly rule was called
I got a safe call at second, he clearly tagged up and even though the throw back to second may have beaten the runner, a tag would have to be made for an out call here.
I also have an out on the batter. His left leg is clearly on the plate (hence out of the batter's box) while making contact with the ball.
Not clear at all. His foot doesn't contact the plate until after contact.
@@Patrick-yh3oi agreed, he was clearly fully in the batters box before and during the swing, it is on the followthru that his left foot steps on the plate, which is allowed.
That’s just the best example that you don’t hang out off the bag. An umpire can get the call wrong and it’s not worth it
Has anyone perhaps thought about whether the infield fly rule apply? Maybe the empire thought he was perhaps wrong at first and then when discussed they decided it was close enough to be an infield fly rule!!!??...
He stepped on the base before he could get the ball back safe
The ball beat him to the bag but they didn’t tag him
BTw, after looking at it again, I also have infield fly. The SS caught it with "ordinary effort" so the batter was out anyway. The runner has to be tagged out to be put out.
Marty Mac debatable. Ordinary effort is subjective, based on the judgment of the umpire. While the fielder was semi-facing the infield when the ball was caught, he had turned his back to the infield with the ball in the air. Not disagreeing with you, I just don’t see it as a cut and dried infield fly call.
I think I would have signaled IF. Looking at the HP umpire and the base umpire, I see no IF signal from either. Either way, the catch was made. The call comes down to judgement whether runner left second base before catch. Looks to me he did not leave base early; runner was not tagged, so I think correct call is Safe.
He was tagged out, 1:24 the fielder incidentally tags the runner on the arm after catching the ball
@@danger170388 Yeah but he's standing on the base by then
@@BigBear48 nope, watch it at .25 speed, he tags the left arm and the foot is still off the base
Safe because he tagged up and when he went back he did not tag him so he is safe
This ump is dog
Flame you are wrong he is out because the second baseman caught the ball before he touched the bag and the second baseman did not have to tag him
@@elibagley5980 second base does have to tag hum it was not a force out the runner very clearly tagged up.
He tagged up
He was safe, he tagged up and if I were the kid I'd be giving the umpire a lesson on calls
Safe. I have the runner tagging up and safely returning to the base without being TAGGED. I note that the fielder bobbled the ball slightly. The runner did leave the base before the ball was actually caught. But, in tagging up, he does NOT have to wait for it to be caught. He only has to wait until the fielder touches it or is touched by it.
He’s Out For Sure
He is Safe Ump missed the call and the review missed the call as well. :(
I didn’t know Angel Hernandez did Little League games!
It appears in the angle at the end that the shortstop kind of bobbles the ball in his glove, by the time he fully caught it, the runner was already off of second.
So I guess he is out.
But he should totally be safe for that.
The ball only has to touch the fielders glove for the tag up. Bobble or no bobble doesn't matter, the base-runners foot was on the bag at the time the fielders glove touched the ball, so he clearly tagged up and needed to be tagged to be out. Bad call on the umpire who wasn't even in a good position to see the tag up.
Safe, he had his foot on the bag after the ss caught it
Safe, he didn't come off the base until it was caught. He wasn't being forced back. He needs to be tagged
He’s safe because he stayed on the bag then he came off
So I played professionally and based off of my knowledge he tagged up and then after the catch came off the bag and it looks like he was never touched. Now if it was ruled a tag then the ump saw something I did not and is what it is. But that is 1000% not a force play. Anyone who argues it was a force play really needs to learn the game a little better before commenting.
He was on the bag when the ball was caught so the second baseman would have had to tag the runner. So safe!
Come on Guys. The runner was on the base when the ball touched the SS's glove. He had tagged up on the play. For him to be out, the 2B would have to tag him. That is about as simple as it gets. There isn't a force because he had already tagged up.
Safe 100%. He would have to be tagged out, it’s not a force out.
Runner left the bag after the catch was made by the shortstop, therefore it is not a force out at second and the runner needed to be tagged out. Possibly an infield fly rule may have been in effect.
From looking very closely at the video frame by frame and doing some extensive analysis, it has been determined that the runner is wearing a white shirt, the second baseman is wearing a blue shirt, and the umpire is wearing a blue shirt so the umpire likes blue better than white and called it as such.
it looks safe because he tagged up but the angle at 1:18 almost looks like he stepped off before the catch was made
Watch it in slow-mo
Not even close
Safe it’s in Field fly rule you have to tag the runner
Sorry Lauren, infield fly rule was not called. But, the rest of your reply is correct. He still had to be tagged.
@@johnbleyer8490 I was looking for that also. Didn't see it.
He stepped off after the catch so a tag needed to be applied
From what I saw he was safe because he got his foot on the base before the ball was caught at the base
Safe, his foot was still on the base when it was caught then he left and they didn’t tag him
He was safe because when you play it back in slow mo it shows the ball being caught before the runner left the base
If the Infield Fly rule was called the batter was already out. But since we have tag up the throw back is a tag play.
SAFE! This was a call that should never have been in doubt. 2nd base ump (who's call it was) had his back to the play when the catch was made so he didn't know if the runner left early or not.
Ump at 3rd had the best look, but apparently didn't want to over rule the call. Perhaps it's time LL started spending some of their millions on quality officials for tournament games.
Safe, he was still barely on the base when the fielder caught it
I think we all know this kid is safe due to him tagging up.
Crazy that this even needed to be discussed. Runner clearly doesn’t come off the bag until after the catch.
He's safe he was just tagging up
Yeah he should have had to tag him because you can see in the clip that he tagged up
He is safe because the kid covering 2nd had to tag him because he tagged up.
ump made the wrong call, his foot was on the bag, therefore making him safe.
and all im finna say is
this is not gonna be a blood battle but a massicre
It is like saying he goes for third but the third baseman just touches the bag and doesn’t tag the runner
Out because since he left the bag after the ball was caught it was like he was tagging up to go to third
It doesn’t matter
The runner can not advance until the fly ball is caught. He left before he caught the ball. Wich means the runner would need to "tag up" before advancing to the next bag if he chooses to. However if the ball is thrown back to the base he left a force out can be made.
he was on the bag when the catch was made.