Same dude xD, when i saw it i thought to myself ''Haha, good one volvo'' then i saw it was real :(. I was getting to a level with the AWP i really liked, where i could push and get 2-3 fast kills 1/3 rounds, now i gotta learn how to do that all over again.
rbz0 Sorry, I forgot you shouldn't make jokes on TH-cam, the appropriate location for serious philosophical debate on CSGO nerfs. I agreed with everything Thorin said but thanks for the asinine assumptions.
while i do think the blatant disrespect towards the developers was a bit unnecessary, i also find it difficult to respect the direction that they seem to have taken with the AWP and counter-strike in general. thus, i 100% agree with the points you made in the video. The awp nerf was completely out of nowhere and should never have even been an issue, and running accuracy of the tec-9 shouldve been nerfed. In regards to the three smg's, i believe they shouldve nerfed the p90 accuracy and damage over long distance and indirectly buff them. We don't need more run and gunning in this game. I am also a fan of buffing deagle accuracy over long range, but thats a discussion for some other time.
Thooorin i understand that, i just find your anger near the end a bit excessive (still hilarious), although totally understandable. I'd very much love to hear your thoughts on the "flukes" in games and the removal of said flukes from games. I'm mainly thinking about the effective death of bunnyhopping (I say effective because it's still very much possible in CS:GO competitive, just very hard to do and nearly impossible to do consistently), fountain hooks from Dota 2, and wavedashing (among other things) in Super Smash Bros (not sure if you follow that particular competitive scene). I'm sure there's others you could touch on in a video (should you decide to make one). I personally am in favor of the return of these mechanics unless they are truly game-breaking and easily pulled off.
rbz0 They did more then just lower its mag size. It cant get headshot kills from 5 miles away anymore. So I think it is about 10 feet in game, you shouldnt die from a headshot anymore. Up close you still can.
Valve has been known for their fuck ups. Not the first time, they nerf the most unnecessary things. For example back when I was still playing DoTA, they nerfed heroes who got insane statistics almost after every god damn tournament, and they sometimes they'll make heroes who are already nerfed even more weak. At least in DoTA there are 100s of heroes to make up for the deficit, but where will the AWPers go from here?
Thooorin I curious, would you have variants for weapons like the Silenced M4 and the CZ? If yes, would you have other weapons have variants too? Like a bloody Magnum .44 instead of deagle. Please make a video on that subject. :D We can always dream.
Valve has spent the past few months trying to make the game more balanced, and most of the changes they have made were to benefit the T side since CSGO is a CT sided game. So why... why after all these months of helping the T side why would you nerf the AWP and hurt the T side. It doesnt make sense, I understood the Tec9 because that was being abused but the AWP really. And when are you going to add 5 more bullets to the M4A1-S I am tired of reloading so damn often.
Dallas Cade You shouldnt miss enough to have to reload often with the A1, and if you need the bullets, use the A4. The A1 doesnt need to be anymore powerful than it already is.
Arrivall well I guess he meant that he cant prefire any corners or smoke when someone is shooting thru towards you.. and when he is on 10-15 bullets he has to reload to have the 20 bullets if they suddenly decide to rush you thru smoke / you make the commitment of going into a site to retake after the prefires.. but yeah I think 20 bullets is OK, 25 would be IDEAL but I think 1 more clip is needed.
stardustie I agree that another clip would be nice, but I think 20 bullets is perfect. Unless they increase the price to 3350, then I think 25 bullets would be good. the A1 already has better accuracy and a silencer.
Winged Storm Other then owning the asiimov skin, the reason I use the M4a4 is because of the clip and I like to spray through smoke as a CT. Correct me if i'm wrong but the m4a4 does more damage I believe and has more ammo. However the m4a1 is more accuracte. Both take 2 headshots to kill against armor. The m4a4 in my opinion is the better gun, especially for silvers. The only time most CS GO players should use the M4a1-s is at pro level and guardian. It's only good if you can always land those shots. I am only GN3 so take everything I said with a grain of salt.
Might be a bad example but:Before the release of COD AW Sledgehammer worked with certain pro players to fine tune the comp side of things.Looks like VALVE need to make an attempt at doing the same
124Callum124 That because kids grow up.Most moved on to watching CS:GO.And having pros talking to people who control what happens to the game they play for a living is a bad thing?Are you dumb?
+mindo61600 I didn't say that this is bad but Valve works with the pros way more than Sledgehammer. And don't comment COD Stuff on a CSGO-Video you're going to get hate.
Not talkiing about the awp, it's basically the same shit didn't affect me more about the tec-9 T side started winning way more rounds because they always started with atleast 3 tec-9's
The AWP was not OP and did not need any nerfs. Still, it got nerfed very badly... Haven't played more than a couple games since the update, the game just isnt fun anymore. Too many crappy guns are OP and too many expensive guns are UP, like the awp. Makes the money stackin aspect of the game not essential anymore. Valve are fuckin idiots
So passionate, thanks for being a much needed voice for the community good sir. Also, that was the most beautiful transition to sellout I have seen in years... (':
This is one of the best videos considering any in-game change I have ever seen. Thorin has amazing knowledge about all the major games and the things he pointed out in this video are just plain facts. I hope that the developers of CS:GO watch this video and consider the things that was said and pointed out to them.
Ranjid Al Ackbar They nerfed ADAD, which was for the most part good, but made it so that ScreaM, who would strafe back and forth, shooting accurate shots while being a speed demon, could no longer do his strafe shooting effectively.
Nerfing the AWP makes everything much more CT sided since you can mainly only defend with the AWP and not attack now, so the Ts can't fully utilize the AWP. And Ts will have to peek AWPs with rifles now.
haseo1 This is the "Oh silver noob, tell us how it should be played sonny boy" bullshit that Thorin was talking about in the video; trying to say how things _should_ be. If KennyS is Titans best player and he _happens_ to be an AWPer, that doesn't make the AWP overpowered. And even if the AWP was overpowered *which it's not* it should at least be balanced for both sides. Which is what my main point was in the first place. Balance for CT *AND* T Awping. Your whole thing about how 1 guy shouldn't carry is a whole other argument all together. Which is a weak point by the way. There are so many other factors for why a player carries besides "The AWP is overpowered".
haseo1 Tell me 10 Pro carrys who use the AWP in their team : 1. KennyS 2.JW (sometimes and not even a carry) 3.allu (sometimes) 4. WorldEdit (sometimes) 5.s1mple (in flipsid3 not at all an AWP carry) and now it gets hard... lets begin with the riflers : 1.Olofm 2.flusha 3.friberg 4.dupreeh 4.Happy 5.device 6. Hiko .... i could continue till tommorow dude
***** Yeah haha. He was so pissed about the awp nerf i was expecting him to shoot one of the csgo devs in the head on camera and then zen Thorin pops up with this ad :D
Everything you said it true. Valve seem to have no idea what they are doing with balancing. The Tec-9 is still overpowered, as is the CZ in some cases (although less so than before). The AWP was in no way too 'easy' to use, and now a rifle will beat an AWP in 90% of situations. My frustration is insane, whilst I sit here and try to learn how to AWP again because CSGO devs can't be asked to listen to the community or properly observe the Pro scene!
Antasma YGO In fairness I just reached le , I've only been playing for a year and There is still fuck loads I don't know about the game. I would say Le still isn't high enough to deserve a vote. Though I do think the awp was op but has been super nerfed , it only needed something like a 160 overall movement rate lower or that arm shots at mid to long range don't 1 hit kill.
WoW thorin You are very convincing, I had the same thoughts aswell but you expressed it perfectly. I wouldnt have been able to do that... also lold at the part where you mention the failed tec9 nerf :D. Keep up the great job!
I 100% agree, and thats even with good will not always given, but I like that you at least are putting your opinion out there. In contrast to that I think developers wont change things when you insult them.;-) AND I LOVED YOUR OUTRO, IT WAS FUCKING GODLIKE. THATS HOW YOU ADVERTISE
Thorin do you think we'll get our old AWP back based on what us as a community have discussed and been outspoken about? I propose I petition or a severely strongly worded letter to Valve on how we think the game should be done since we're the ones playing it and based on the points you mentioned about how the "fixes" don't actually fix the original issues.
Since the movement whilst scoped for the scout wasn't changed (if it was I didn't notice it) its what the pro snipers are going switch to. CALLING IT NOW!!!
stevo1994728 It wasnt but it's bugged to hell right now. If you crouch and scope in then walk to the side. You walk faster then a normal guy walking standing up. Scoping in with the scout right now you move REALLY fast.... I use to use the scout instead of the awp but since the patch they nerfed the awp and scout is bugged so i went back to rifles.
Seems like the drag / resistance has been reduced while strafing with the scout while zoomed in? You can move more now than before. Feels more slippery and loose. Hope they revert. Scout was great how it was except jump shooting should die and bring back some of the 1.6 mechanics like holding lclick keeps firing.
I only use scout now. It remained unnerfed, so I can just light people, run away, and let my teammates get the kill. Or I can get headshots, though it's risky. Or I can finish them off. It's cheaper and more effective now. AWP is dead.
There is still a chance they might revert this but doesn't change the fact that it was a moronic decision. I hate when devs just make pretty huge decisions without real feedback from the guys that matter. Kinda how blizzard try and make their games as casual as possible these days while dangling that 1% of hardcore shit in front of the real players.
It ended up making the game much more skirmished focused vs before where you'd have executes, ofc there are still amazing execute teams like prime Astralis who took executing to another level. Overall I think the AWP nerf was a bad change but the results of it were good and it made the game entertaining but also is a cop out to countering pros who were good with the gun. Also there's a reason why not everyone could use the gun, it took an immense amount of skill to be able to play and use the AWP the ways that KennyS, JW, and Guardian used to do back in the day. It's really sad that you removed an entire playstyle to accommodate players who were just to brain dead to use util to push awpers off angles, also made the game SIGNIFICANTLY more CT sided even more so than before. Game basically became win on CT side and pray you can erk out a couple rounds on T side for most maps seldom the occasional game on overpass or smth.
tl;dr - "I want moving-AWP accuracy to be as pinpoint as L4D snipers" Because automatic weapons aren't already screwed over by bullets that LEAVE THE CROSSHAIR
I like your views both on the awp and the tec9. Right on. Maybe a bit too much hate towards the developers but that's one of the main reasons I watch you, you're not afraid to speak your mind!
It was perfectly fine and yes valve are so out of touch with the people who play the game. They'll nerf the awp and try to nerf rifles, but they keep buffing up the p90, the thing that truly is overpowered, low tagging, low price, accurate while moving, high armor penetration and ridiculous dps. But do valve ever listen to the community? No they don't because as long as they're making money, they don't give two shits about the actual playing experience
There should be a consulting team working together with/ be part of valve so decisions like this can be prevented. Also a test patch maybe valve??... Embarrasing how these changes are made. Great video once again, hopefully they see it XD (not a chance)
You know what Esports needs more of? Thorins. It needs more people who know what they are talking about and can actually give educated assessments. Awesome work Thorin.
Truth was spoken here, you have gained my respect and i sincerely hope the dev's listen to someone like you, i have posted many times on the forums and i get banned by them everytime for being "abusive" against their poor decisions. Respect to you.
I totally agree with everything you said lol. I tried out the AWP after the update and my literal reaction to my friend in teamspeak was "lmao now they're cattering to silvers". I do like the fact that the SMGs are more accurate at long ranges but they really need to nerf running accuracy with everything except pistols. I have great respect for you Thorin not only due to your extensive knowledge of the pro scene(s) but the fact that you voice your opinion proudly and aren't afraid to curse when you feel extreme discontent for things because valve really fucked up this time.
Those are really good thoughts I'm just absorbing here. I'm new to CS, I haven't played it a whole lot, but I'm gold nova now with 66 wins without anyone boosting me. I'm trying to study game and improve my ways of being viable and useful for team there. Personally I didn't have an opinion about that nerfing as I'm really new here and don't think I can make calls like that, but I can certanly agree with the way you operate facts. This seems a very solid argument right here. If only there was a way to make Valve listen to this and have enough courage to admit their mistake or think about ways to use provided set of ideas to game's benefit.
Browner Than the Average Brown You're talking like the game wasn't run & gun right from the start, unless you train hard there's no point in learning AK/M4/AWP, just buy SMG's, ADADAD and get to decent ranks.
Damn thorin, u expresed all my fricking opinion word by word. Specially that part about the server noobs arguing on hltv how ''OP'' was this weapon. Love ya man, no homo.
Thorin why don't you open a petition or something? If enough people shows up valve might think about anti-nerfing the AWP, and the best way to do this it's if it starts from someone that already has a good amount of visibility. If you start a petition (or something) the anti-nerf MIGHT HAPPEN. Otherwise we're screwed. I started playing not long ago and i'm just a fucking noob, but even i understand this was a shitty move. I LOVED the awp how it was before and i didn't care if i sucked at using it, i loved the idea of the skill behind it. I hope you read this. TH-camrs or famous people are the only chance to restore the awp as it was.
Well said. Forcing an in-game entity into a certain role goes hand-in-hand with lowering the skill-ceiling. This isn't like the MMO holy-trinity composition where cooldowns and caps will limit people from compensating for a weaker link. CS is a game where you have 5 people who stand equal in-game and are only made different by their type of initiative; their out-of-game selves. And what was up with that Tec-9 nerf? It's like they didn't research the issue and just lowered any old stat hoping it was the right one. Movement accuracy was the one major thing. Range was an insignificant step in the right direction. And 24 vs 32? When you have that much what difference does it make? And the SMG buff? What are they trying to say with that? They have repeatedly stated they wanted a larger variety of weapons to be equally used and meanwhile they nerf a gun that should only be wielded by 1 or 2 players at any one time. The only people that WANT to use the SMGs for more than their anti-eco purposes (which they're fantastic for) are people who aren't concerned with selecting the optimal gun for their situation (aka people who aren't playing an eSport competitively). Why are they catering to that mentality so much? The only "pro-variety" movement I think I might support would be making the M4A4 more desirable. But not by hurting its competition. Lower the A4 price or buff movement or reload times or penetration (to encourage that spammability through environments). The A1-S was the one of the two that was in the right place. It's the rifle that's usually second to the AK but potentially more viable on a map like dust_2.
Thorin I use to disagree with you opinions and was on the bandwagon on hating on you, but now in recent videos and watching you, I'm really liking this and completely agree with you. I really like the "you Nerf one weapon and you buff the other"
Great vid thoorin. And to the tec 9, with the mag nerf the only real difference is that now you might want to reload after you have rushed a spot and ur waiting on the retake attempt. I mean lol. Just stunned. What is up with the new crouch-scope-movement speed with awp btw? Is it just a bug or is it intended to sometimes move you at almost full runspeed?
Yep, completely agree with everything you said. AWP nerf was absolutely unecessary, tec9 nerf for ammo capacity is just plain stupid, when that wasn't the issue with the gun.
What I think was happening is that the awp was replacing the entry fragger. Well the awp vs awp battles were balanced if someone was using a rifle they had no chance at stopping an aggressive awp peek.
I'm a man, but I think I'm in love with you. Really, I think EXACTLY everything you've said. I hope valve will change is stupid position and get back to us the glorious AWP
Ryan Shiver actually as a primary awper I can give in that it might be OK to nerf it a LITTLE.. but not like Valve has done it, what was the moving speed before the nerf? Lets say it was 200 and now its 100.. I'd maybe drop the running speed without scope with 10 units and then the scoped to like 170-175 range and that would be just fine. now its just ridiculous cause its unnatural to not use walk when scoped(slows u down to the level of a fucking 1month child trying to move..) and not even that, the acceleration of the scoped movement is so ridiculous and broken that it makes no sense. It could ALMOST be ok / manageable if it was with instant acceleration but that wouldnt be consistent with the rest of the game and would cause even more problems to peeking with an awp offensively(LIKE IT USED TO BE). Not to mention the supernova speed u can gain by duckscoping with the snipers now -_- or the other bugs that cause you to fly around corners if u duckpeek from full speed and shoot by quickscoping or that you move(superfast) without touching your keyboard when u r boosted(tower) and u got ur scope on
Honestly I used to play an AWP style that I've only seen JW do on a pro level (of course he's light years ahead of me) and I heard about the AWP nerf so I picked up CS:GO again to check it out. It really only hurts hard-scopers I could honestly barely feel a difference. It doesn't seem to hurt risky playing, but makes it harder for those safer styles.
I like this a lot, I literally listen to Thorin and he sounds like me if I were to defend a topic and I love it. He's so right about this change, no reason for this nerf.
Thorin I like your point about it's not about the weapon it's the player skill. As a Diablo III player I KNOW when a weapon is OP since everyone plays the same style/class since the release of the fuken game.
Holy fuck, Thorin, I think I'm in love.
Primary AWPer here that feels just as enraged at this change as you do.
you suck, awping is too easy. learn how to play with a non scoped weapon
Liam McSpringleton 1. Try purchasing a flash 2. Pop Flash long 3. Now CT has to repeek you 4. ???????? 5. Profit(100 dollars).
Liam McSpringleton *dieded
NaToSaphiX - Unique CS:GO Content primary awper? well, you are the cancer of cs:go and I am glad the awp got nerfed
said the silver
The rage at the silvers was the funniest thing ever.
i thought the fucking awp nerf was a 1st april fool ffs - RIP KennyS&Titan , RIP GuardiaN&NaVi
Same dude xD, when i saw it i thought to myself ''Haha, good one volvo'' then i saw it was real :(. I was getting to a level with the AWP i really liked, where i could push and get 2-3 fast kills 1/3 rounds, now i gotta learn how to do that all over again.
We all did...
oWwNn3Dtv LOL "RIP GUARDIAN" You must be new here.
JW will now be a true wonder child, he'll be confused with the nerf
oWwNn3Dtv How is GuardiaN rip? He's arguably the best defensive awper. KennyS doesn't count since he's amazing at offensive and defensive...
I can tell you like Sean Gares.
EnemyCube if that's all that struck you, you wasted 18 minutes
EnemyCube It's because he is shit.
rbz0 It's a joke buddy
rbz0 Sorry, I forgot you shouldn't make jokes on TH-cam, the appropriate location for serious philosophical debate on CSGO nerfs.
I agreed with everything Thorin said but thanks for the asinine assumptions.
Rekt
while i do think the blatant disrespect towards the developers was a bit unnecessary, i also find it difficult to respect the direction that they seem to have taken with the AWP and counter-strike in general. thus, i 100% agree with the points you made in the video. The awp nerf was completely out of nowhere and should never have even been an issue, and running accuracy of the tec-9 shouldve been nerfed. In regards to the three smg's, i believe they shouldve nerfed the p90 accuracy and damage over long distance and indirectly buff them. We don't need more run and gunning in this game. I am also a fan of buffing deagle accuracy over long range, but thats a discussion for some other time.
CptShiba Respect is earned
"i also find it difficult to respect the direction that they seem to have taken with counter-strike in general"
this 110%
CptShiba Valve are a fucking dogshit company
Well if he wasn't going to loose his respect for them now when would he? At some point you don't deserve to still receive the same initial respect.
Thooorin i understand that, i just find your anger near the end a bit excessive (still hilarious), although totally understandable.
I'd very much love to hear your thoughts on the "flukes" in games and the removal of said flukes from games. I'm mainly thinking about the effective death of bunnyhopping (I say effective because it's still very much possible in CS:GO competitive, just very hard to do and nearly impossible to do consistently), fountain hooks from Dota 2, and wavedashing (among other things) in Super Smash Bros (not sure if you follow that particular competitive scene). I'm sure there's others you could touch on in a video (should you decide to make one).
I personally am in favor of the return of these mechanics unless they are truly game-breaking and easily pulled off.
Couldn't agree more, there was no need to nerf the awp. And merely decreasing the tec-9's mag size by 8 is hardly a nerf as well...
rbz0 They did more then just lower its mag size. It cant get headshot kills from 5 miles away anymore. So I think it is about 10 feet in game, you shouldnt die from a headshot anymore. Up close you still can.
NoobyRussian Dunno why people complaining about the tech 9 nerf , the damage over range has dropped significantly.
NoobyRussian You can still run & gun doe :[
I3oSsTrAd My opinion... lol and this is just mine But they should have left the cz and tec-9 the way they were but they should have raised the prices.
Billy Billson What's wrong with being able too run and gun though? If you have "better" wepons shouldn't you just play with your range..?
I agree completely with what thorin says, valve showing once again that they are totally out of touch with good cs players
John Christian Still got to keep the silvers happy since the majority of players are silvers. Even pros need that or else there is no fan base.
The majority of the players are gold nova 3's
MrDaniiYY source?
Valve has been known for their fuck ups. Not the first time, they nerf the most unnecessary things. For example back when I was still playing DoTA, they nerfed heroes who got insane statistics almost after every god damn tournament, and they sometimes they'll make heroes who are already nerfed even more weak. At least in DoTA there are 100s of heroes to make up for the deficit, but where will the AWPers go from here?
John Christian Its all about money my friend
Hey Thorin, if you could make your "own" CS, how would it be?
What guns would you choose?
Mechanics?
Stuff like this.
The fantasy CS :)
BiscuitRage Maybe I'll make a video on that topic
Thooorin I curious, would you have variants for weapons like the Silenced M4 and the CZ? If yes, would you have other weapons have variants too? Like a bloody Magnum .44 instead of deagle. Please make a video on that subject. :D We can always dream.
Thooorin Please do.
I'll make my own cs go, with blackjack and hookers
silenced ak with the accuracy of a tec9 and the mag size of a negev. Volvo pls add
Valve has spent the past few months trying to make the game more balanced, and most of the changes they have made were to benefit the T side since CSGO is a CT sided game. So why... why after all these months of helping the T side why would you nerf the AWP and hurt the T side. It doesnt make sense, I understood the Tec9 because that was being abused but the AWP really. And when are you going to add 5 more bullets to the M4A1-S I am tired of reloading so damn often.
Dallas Cade You shouldnt miss enough to have to reload often with the A1, and if you need the bullets, use the A4. The A1 doesnt need to be anymore powerful than it already is.
Arrivall well I guess he meant that he cant prefire any corners or smoke when someone is shooting thru towards you.. and when he is on 10-15 bullets he has to reload to have the 20 bullets if they suddenly decide to rush you thru smoke / you make the commitment of going into a site to retake after the prefires.. but yeah I think 20 bullets is OK, 25 would be IDEAL but I think 1 more clip is needed.
stardustie I agree that another clip would be nice, but I think 20 bullets is perfect. Unless they increase the price to 3350, then I think 25 bullets would be good. the A1 already has better accuracy and a silencer.
If they add 5 more rounds to the m4a1 then they give the players yet fewer reasons to use the m4a4, so i hope that never happens
Winged Storm Other then owning the asiimov skin, the reason I use the M4a4 is because of the clip and I like to spray through smoke as a CT. Correct me if i'm wrong but the m4a4 does more damage I believe and has more ammo. However the m4a1 is more accuracte. Both take 2 headshots to kill against armor. The m4a4 in my opinion is the better gun, especially for silvers. The only time most CS GO players should use the M4a1-s is at pro level and guardian. It's only good if you can always land those shots. I am only GN3 so take everything I said with a grain of salt.
Might be a bad example but:Before the release of COD AW Sledgehammer worked with certain pro players to fine tune the comp side of things.Looks like VALVE need to make an attempt at doing the same
mindo61600 Hahahahaha are you serious??
mindo61600 Call of Duty is failing at a pro level, they went from having 500k watching CoD champs to 110k this year. Lets not do what that scene does
124Callum124 That because kids grow up.Most moved on to watching CS:GO.And having pros talking to people who control what happens to the game they play for a living is a bad thing?Are you dumb?
mindo61600 The pros in CS has a MAJOR role in how Valve is tuning the game, they even watch their youtube videos, and follow their twitters...
+mindo61600 I didn't say that this is bad but Valve works with the pros way more than
Sledgehammer. And don't comment COD Stuff on a CSGO-Video you're going to get hate.
You forgot to drop the mic and walk out at the end of the video. Just FYI.
He forget to hold one. Kappa
JabiJlonso forgot*
Joey28P +1
11:18 haha that quote! "wasn't fucking imbalanced then was it!?"
jguth6 poor fiffy
14:20 best of thorin
It looks like they care more about silver division than the pro scene
Im a Silver and even I dont agree with this.
Not talkiing about the awp, it's basically the same shit didn't affect me more about the tec-9 T side started winning way more rounds because they always started with atleast 3 tec-9's
As they should. In your opinion, which % of their playerbase is pro, and which % is silver?
Yeah...
@@jonathanallard2128 but most shit that happen to silver happens because of their stupidity not weapon balance
@@meatboy5714 Disagreed only for AWP
The AWP was not OP and did not need any nerfs. Still, it got nerfed very badly... Haven't played more than a couple games since the update, the game just isnt fun anymore. Too many crappy guns are OP and too many expensive guns are UP, like the awp. Makes the money stackin aspect of the game not essential anymore.
Valve are fuckin idiots
Archie Ellis bad player detected
smithwick1710 spoiler alert, it's you
I still watch this video, then watch pre-nerf montages and cry.
Always agree with you. Valve is brainless.
So passionate, thanks for being a much needed voice for the community good sir.
Also, that was the most beautiful transition to sellout I have seen in years... (':
If valve watched Thorin's videos CS:GO would be the most balanced, and best fps out there. The Pro scene would be incredible.
+UltraIronGamer sure a game can be balanced
Chess
A game can be balanced,
starcraft brood war, was balanced
This is one of the best videos considering any in-game change I have ever seen. Thorin has amazing knowledge about all the major games and the things he pointed out in this video are just plain facts. I hope that the developers of CS:GO watch this video and consider the things that was said and pointed out to them.
Hit the nail on the head.
This was one of your best videos Thorin. Everything you said was well thought out and the rage was 10/10 passionate.
Valve once did "balance" ScreaM style of play, now it's time for awpers =/
axmadka can you give me source on the update please? im interested
Ranjid Al Ackbar
In what?
Ranjid Al Ackbar They nerfed ADAD, which was for the most part good, but made it so that ScreaM, who would strafe back and forth, shooting accurate shots while being a speed demon, could no longer do his strafe shooting effectively.
axmadka shit example because he still can shoot and move like he did before but awpers cant entry or repeek same as before
vabalokis yes he can but he is a easier taget and die very fast because the accleration is much slower that's the problem for scream
Your transitions into your advertising are just amazing, Good work, and thanks, for coming out full force about this. Hopefully Valve will listen.
Nerfing the AWP makes everything much more CT sided since you can mainly only defend with the AWP and not attack now, so the Ts can't fully utilize the AWP. And Ts will have to peek AWPs with rifles now.
John Smith Nades still exist bro ;) . With a nade T can 'steal' the angle/corner from the CT.
haseo1 That's still less balanced because what you're saying is the Ts need yet another thing to make use of the AWP.
John Smith True ;) but it's a teamgame. The AWP was way to easy for the top players to carry with. 1 man army teams aren't really what CS is about.
haseo1 This is the "Oh silver noob, tell us how it should be played sonny boy" bullshit that Thorin was talking about in the video; trying to say how things _should_ be. If KennyS is Titans best player and he _happens_ to be an AWPer, that doesn't make the AWP overpowered. And even if the AWP was overpowered *which it's not* it should at least be balanced for both sides. Which is what my main point was in the first place. Balance for CT *AND* T Awping. Your whole thing about how 1 guy shouldn't carry is a whole other argument all together. Which is a weak point by the way. There are so many other factors for why a player carries besides "The AWP is overpowered".
haseo1 Tell me 10 Pro carrys who use the AWP in their team : 1. KennyS 2.JW (sometimes and not even a carry) 3.allu (sometimes) 4. WorldEdit (sometimes) 5.s1mple (in flipsid3 not at all an AWP carry) and now it gets hard... lets begin with the riflers : 1.Olofm 2.flusha 3.friberg 4.dupreeh 4.Happy 5.device 6. Hiko .... i could continue till tommorow dude
Probably the best Thorin's Thoughts yet
That VULCUN.COM advertising in the end was genius ;)
***** I know right hahaha.
***** Yeah haha. He was so pissed about the awp nerf i was expecting him to shoot one of the csgo devs in the head on camera and then zen Thorin pops up with this ad :D
This video was truly beautiful and accurate. Thanks Thorin ILY.
On point video as always. Keep it up m8
I love how passionate your thoughts are on every video. Keep this shit comming man! And the reflections interviews to old school quake players :DDD
Everything you said it true. Valve seem to have no idea what they are doing with balancing. The Tec-9 is still overpowered, as is the CZ in some cases (although less so than before). The AWP was in no way too 'easy' to use, and now a rifle will beat an AWP in 90% of situations. My frustration is insane, whilst I sit here and try to learn how to AWP again because CSGO devs can't be asked to listen to the community or properly observe the Pro scene!
That was potentially the smoothest transition between an angry rant and a calm sponsorship message I've ever seen XD
They should make a poll or something for future updates. and that you will only be able to vote in mg or higher ranks
Antasma YGO yeah i agree that would be allot better
KreeQ you know alot of the top tier ranks are riddled with hackers too
Antasma YGO In fairness I just reached le , I've only been playing for a year and There is still fuck loads I don't know about the game. I would say Le still isn't high enough to deserve a vote. Though I do think the awp was op but has been super nerfed , it only needed something like a 160 overall movement rate lower or that arm shots at mid to long range don't 1 hit kill.
I don't want any MGE trolls to destroy the game (Don't take me wrong, I'm mge myself), Valve should listen to the pros instead.
Kid who's mg wants to be able to vote LOL fuck that mge or higher cuz as. Much as im mg there are too many retards in mg
WoW thorin You are very convincing, I had the same thoughts aswell but you expressed it perfectly. I wouldnt have been able to do that... also lold at the part where you mention the failed tec9 nerf :D. Keep up the great job!
Wonderful commentary mate, top knowledge and very well spoken.
Has anything been changed to the AWP since this nerf?
Nope
+Nicco Pedone hahahaha +1
I 100% agree, and thats even with good will not always given, but I like that you at least are putting your opinion out there.
In contrast to that I think developers wont change things when you insult them.;-)
AND I LOVED YOUR OUTRO, IT WAS FUCKING GODLIKE. THATS HOW YOU ADVERTISE
Is there a petition to change this back? If not, someone should make one.
Totally agree
Thorin as on point as ever. Fuck I love this dude, a great voice for the community. Keep it up.
Thorin do you think we'll get our old AWP back based on what us as a community have discussed and been outspoken about? I propose I petition or a severely strongly worded letter to Valve on how we think the game should be done since we're the ones playing it and based on the points you mentioned about how the "fixes" don't actually fix the original issues.
The sheer indignation in the video makes it one of your best.
Since the movement whilst scoped for the scout wasn't changed (if it was I didn't notice it) its what the pro snipers are going switch to. CALLING IT NOW!!!
stevo1994728 It wasnt but it's bugged to hell right now. If you crouch and scope in then walk to the side. You walk faster then a normal guy walking standing up. Scoping in with the scout right now you move REALLY fast.... I use to use the scout instead of the awp but since the patch they nerfed the awp and scout is bugged so i went back to rifles.
Seems like the drag / resistance has been reduced while strafing with the scout while zoomed in? You can move more now than before. Feels more slippery and loose. Hope they revert. Scout was great how it was except jump shooting should die and bring back some of the 1.6 mechanics like holding lclick keeps firing.
Best video my ears and eyes have ever had the pleasure of consuming.
Rekt. Amazing video. (Fiflaren mention made me laugh so hard)
LOL now have watched like 4 videos with that new ending and this was by far The Best.Thumbs up
I only use scout now. It remained unnerfed, so I can just light people, run away, and let my teammates get the kill. Or I can get headshots, though it's risky. Or I can finish them off. It's cheaper and more effective now. AWP is dead.
David Ralphsky LOL
Finally you made a video about this, i'd been waiting :) If anyone is going to make some noise about this ridiculous update, it's you.
why is Thorin wearing fckin scarf and jacket at home?
THAT cold over there?
***** Style Kappa
***** noob
***** Maintaining maximum value for my eventual Playboy shoot. Every inch of skin will be worth millions!
Thooorin The mistery has been solved
***** I seem to recall he mentioned one time that his place had no heating or something or he doesn't use it.
I completely agree with you. Perfect analysis of the current situation, great job!
FIRST. LOVE U THOOORIN. ALL YOUR VIDEOS ARE LEGENDARY
Loving the Sponsor transition Thooorin :')
Seeing this in the context of the revolver update made me want to delete the internet. -.-
God, i love thooorin lol. i agree with your views on the awp, but just the way you put it in the vlog is hilarious.
There is still a chance they might revert this but doesn't change the fact that it was a moronic decision. I hate when devs just make pretty huge decisions without real feedback from the guys that matter. Kinda how blizzard try and make their games as casual as possible these days while dangling that 1% of hardcore shit in front of the real players.
Can we please start a petition to change this? It may be old but still...... These points are valid.
Thoorin 4volvo prezident
Amazing video man, keep up the good work. :D
gg kenny
Amazing video, dev. listen to this man more. Hope that they will bring back old awp and we can still enjoj in game with awp...
In hindsight, the awp nerf turned out to be good for game balance
That said, it would be nice if it had the same scoped speed as the autosnipers
It ended up making the game much more skirmished focused vs before where you'd have executes, ofc there are still amazing execute teams like prime Astralis who took executing to another level. Overall I think the AWP nerf was a bad change but the results of it were good and it made the game entertaining but also is a cop out to countering pros who were good with the gun. Also there's a reason why not everyone could use the gun, it took an immense amount of skill to be able to play and use the AWP the ways that KennyS, JW, and Guardian used to do back in the day. It's really sad that you removed an entire playstyle to accommodate players who were just to brain dead to use util to push awpers off angles, also made the game SIGNIFICANTLY more CT sided even more so than before. Game basically became win on CT side and pray you can erk out a couple rounds on T side for most maps seldom the occasional game on overpass or smth.
Great video thooorin, couldn't agree more, the nerf came out of nowhere and is completely ridiculous
Submit this to Valve, i want the old kennyS back.
This is why i watch you man! well said.
tl;dr - "I want moving-AWP accuracy to be as pinpoint as L4D snipers"
Because automatic weapons aren't already screwed over by bullets that LEAVE THE CROSSHAIR
XenoSpyro You're a cod player aren't you?
R1k0Ch3T Wut
I like your views both on the awp and the tec9. Right on. Maybe a bit too much hate towards the developers but that's one of the main reasons I watch you, you're not afraid to speak your mind!
It was perfectly fine and yes valve are so out of touch with the people who play the game. They'll nerf the awp and try to nerf rifles, but they keep buffing up the p90, the thing that truly is overpowered, low tagging, low price, accurate while moving, high armor penetration and ridiculous dps. But do valve ever listen to the community? No they don't because as long as they're making money, they don't give two shits about the actual playing experience
There should be a consulting team working together with/ be part of valve so decisions like this can be prevented. Also a test patch maybe valve??... Embarrasing how these changes are made. Great video once again, hopefully they see it XD (not a chance)
Yeah, Titan looked really weak today, after that AWP nerf ..
The first time i watched ur entire video and actually listened because i agree so much.
u can nerf the awp but u can never nerf skadoodle
lol, he is not even in top 5
this is true
I love how he goes from borderline blood vessel bursting rage to cool calm and collected sponsor shout outs lmao.
What a stupid nerf to the awp lol
You know what Esports needs more of? Thorins. It needs more people who know what they are talking about and can actually give educated assessments. Awesome work Thorin.
really enjoying this and totally agree, you made a lot of good points. keep it up
Truth was spoken here, you have gained my respect and i sincerely hope the dev's listen to someone like you, i have posted many times on the forums and i get banned by them everytime for being "abusive" against their poor decisions. Respect to you.
beard starting to get big again, we got this boys
I totally agree with everything you said lol. I tried out the AWP after the update and my literal reaction to my friend in teamspeak was "lmao now they're cattering to silvers". I do like the fact that the SMGs are more accurate at long ranges but they really need to nerf running accuracy with everything except pistols. I have great respect for you Thorin not only due to your extensive knowledge of the pro scene(s) but the fact that you voice your opinion proudly and aren't afraid to curse when you feel extreme discontent for things because valve really fucked up this time.
Those are really good thoughts I'm just absorbing here. I'm new to CS, I haven't played it a whole lot, but I'm gold nova now with 66 wins without anyone boosting me.
I'm trying to study game and improve my ways of being viable and useful for team there. Personally I didn't have an opinion about that nerfing as I'm really new here and don't think I can make calls like that, but I can certanly agree with the way you operate facts. This seems a very solid argument right here. If only there was a way to make Valve listen to this and have enough courage to admit their mistake or think about ways to use provided set of ideas to game's benefit.
well said thorin , you are the man !
Any thoughts about SMG buffs? Good or bad
Not good, it encourages sloppy play, (running and gunning.)
don't like run and gun elements in CS
***** if the cts dont buy guns after winning the pistol round they are fucking awful
Browner Than the Average Brown You're talking like the game wasn't run & gun right from the start, unless you train hard there's no point in learning AK/M4/AWP, just buy SMG's, ADADAD and get to decent ranks.
mac-10 now op, plz valve nerf noobs
Damn thorin, u expresed all my fricking opinion word by word. Specially that part about the server noobs arguing on hltv how ''OP'' was this weapon. Love ya man, no homo.
Thorin why don't you open a petition or something? If enough people shows up valve might think about anti-nerfing the AWP, and the best way to do this it's if it starts from someone that already has a good amount of visibility. If you start a petition (or something) the anti-nerf MIGHT HAPPEN. Otherwise we're screwed. I started playing not long ago and i'm just a fucking noob, but even i understand this was a shitty move. I LOVED the awp how it was before and i didn't care if i sucked at using it, i loved the idea of the skill behind it.
I hope you read this. TH-camrs or famous people are the only chance to restore the awp as it was.
keep up the good work thorin
Well said. Forcing an in-game entity into a certain role goes hand-in-hand with lowering the skill-ceiling. This isn't like the MMO holy-trinity composition where cooldowns and caps will limit people from compensating for a weaker link. CS is a game where you have 5 people who stand equal in-game and are only made different by their type of initiative; their out-of-game selves.
And what was up with that Tec-9 nerf? It's like they didn't research the issue and just lowered any old stat hoping it was the right one. Movement accuracy was the one major thing. Range was an insignificant step in the right direction. And 24 vs 32? When you have that much what difference does it make?
And the SMG buff? What are they trying to say with that? They have repeatedly stated they wanted a larger variety of weapons to be equally used and meanwhile they nerf a gun that should only be wielded by 1 or 2 players at any one time. The only people that WANT to use the SMGs for more than their anti-eco purposes (which they're fantastic for) are people who aren't concerned with selecting the optimal gun for their situation (aka people who aren't playing an eSport competitively). Why are they catering to that mentality so much?
The only "pro-variety" movement I think I might support would be making the M4A4 more desirable. But not by hurting its competition. Lower the A4 price or buff movement or reload times or penetration (to encourage that spammability through environments). The A1-S was the one of the two that was in the right place. It's the rifle that's usually second to the AK but potentially more viable on a map like dust_2.
Thorin I use to disagree with you opinions and was on the bandwagon on hating on you, but now in recent videos and watching you, I'm really liking this and completely agree with you. I really like the "you Nerf one weapon and you buff the other"
Respect has to be earned, not given freely to those who don't deserve it.
Love you Thorin. Agree on all points
Great vid thoorin. And to the tec 9, with the mag nerf the only real difference is that now you might want to reload after you have rushed a spot and ur waiting on the retake attempt. I mean lol. Just stunned. What is up with the new crouch-scope-movement speed with awp btw? Is it just a bug or is it intended to sometimes move you at almost full runspeed?
I love your rants mate.
That end rant for like 3 mins is so true about soooo many competitive games and devs
Yep, completely agree with everything you said. AWP nerf was absolutely unecessary, tec9 nerf for ammo capacity is just plain stupid, when that wasn't the issue with the gun.
What I think was happening is that the awp was replacing the entry fragger. Well the awp vs awp battles were balanced if someone was using a rifle they had no chance at stopping an aggressive awp peek.
I'm a man, but I think I'm in love with you. Really, I think EXACTLY everything you've said. I hope valve will change is stupid position and get back to us the glorious AWP
Well said Thorin :D great video.
I'm glad the AWP got nerfed, but I think they went a little overboard.
Maybe a happy medium will be reached in the future.
125 units confirmed?
Mmmarcusb hate hate hate
Ryan Shiver actually as a primary awper I can give in that it might be OK to nerf it a LITTLE.. but not like Valve has done it, what was the moving speed before the nerf? Lets say it was 200 and now its 100.. I'd maybe drop the running speed without scope with 10 units and then the scoped to like 170-175 range and that would be just fine. now its just ridiculous cause its unnatural to not use walk when scoped(slows u down to the level of a fucking 1month child trying to move..) and not even that, the acceleration of the scoped movement is so ridiculous and broken that it makes no sense. It could ALMOST be ok / manageable if it was with instant acceleration but that wouldnt be consistent with the rest of the game and would cause even more problems to peeking with an awp offensively(LIKE IT USED TO BE). Not to mention the supernova speed u can gain by duckscoping with the snipers now -_- or the other bugs that cause you to fly around corners if u duckpeek from full speed and shoot by quickscoping or that you move(superfast) without touching your keyboard when u r boosted(tower) and u got ur scope on
Ryan Shiver You typo'd your last name
Thooorin Love your "thoughts" they are analytical, well considered and informative. Keep 'em up!
give this man a job valve
Honestly I used to play an AWP style that I've only seen JW do on a pro level (of course he's light years ahead of me) and I heard about the AWP nerf so I picked up CS:GO again to check it out. It really only hurts hard-scopers I could honestly barely feel a difference. It doesn't seem to hurt risky playing, but makes it harder for those safer styles.
Extremely well said!
this content is fking gold! hope valve would realize that too
I like this a lot, I literally listen to Thorin and he sounds like me if I were to defend a topic and I love it. He's so right about this change, no reason for this nerf.
Thorin I like your point about it's not about the weapon it's the player skill. As a Diablo III player I KNOW when a weapon is OP since everyone plays the same style/class since the release of the fuken game.