Adding Particle Click Sounds to the FNIRSI Geiger Counter ☢️
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 มิ.ย. 2024
- Making the GC-01 device sound like a REAL Geiger counter.
Like many lower cost devices, there is a sounder for the alarm but no clicks, in this video, I detail an easy fix to this limitation with just a capacitor being added.
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I almost managed to make a video that didn't have a reference to the gamma shite. Did you spot where I managed to slip it into this video?
1:08
radiacode arrived yesterday 🙂... Th GC-01 could be interesting with a J321 for $50 maybe. Measal looks really interesting. Thanks for the videos I have spent some time watching and happy to make own decisions. Help to steer clear of overpriced pieces of shit is appreciated.
Anxiously waiting for your review of the Gamma-Scout rechargeable version! 😜😜
@@rhydar It is the only product I refuse to buy for myself to review, if that company wants me to review it, they need to send me one. After that, they can just sit back and await the glowing review on this channel.
Things do typically glow after a fire...
When I was looking for a Geiger counter the click was one of my main requirements. The click IS the fundamental experience of one, sounding like it's the real click of the decay. It's fortunate such a simple addition (basically a differentiator as your waveform shows) works so well.
I find it essential too. I wish it was built-in.
Thank You! From Frisco, TX
did you get to watch the eclipse? I was visiting Dallas on business and got really lucky with the timing...
Thanks for the great tips. But you don't have to remove the circuit board. In order to connect the pin that supplies the LED, you can just connect it from pin 50 of the MCU. I have already recorded a video of the steps. If I have time I will upload it to TH-cam. Have a nice day.
Yes, you are right
I just got one of these from eBay. I bought a used one at a great price hoping it would have the big good tube. The gamble paid off. So now all I have to do is add your capacitor mod. Thanks
This will be one of the first mods I dowith my GC-01 when it arrives, then will be the 321GM tube. Love your videos, thank you :D
You might want to check out the firmware upgrade to this product (see my channel for that one). It is better for adding clicks than the capacitor mod.
@@project-326 ah awesome thank you. I’ll go take a look 👊🏼
Thanks! I just did the modification :) Now it's sounds like it should!
It works! It requires a steady hand to weld it to the second resistor, but it works!
Awesome!
Thanks a lot, clear and effective. Thanks. Just checked, I have the device with an screw under the sticker at the bottom. With the good tube, yep. And today I have made the modification with the capacitor 100nF. And is clicks now. Works!😊
Awesome, I'm really pleased that you found this guide useful! I keep wondering if I should drill a hole in the rear case where the sounder is located...
Thank you very much. Very helpful :)
Great!
Just Did The Upgrade, Thank God For Circuit Board Holder And Large Magnifying Glass, Need A Beer To Study The Hands, Not Very Loud But It Does Work. Better Than Nothing. Thank You
I hear your pain. These days, I measure my years by the thickness of glass required between my eyes and anything I need to actually see. I have a 12 year old son to help with the soldering when "Daddy messes it up". Like you, I wish that the product had a bigger peizo sounder to give a louder output, but hey-ho, it's certainly better with the mod than without.
Interesting video. I had bought a very cheap geiger counter that included a J321 tube but bought a GC-01 because of the better firmware, display, case etc intending to upgrade.
I added the clicks but used a small MOSFET (ZXM61N02F) to the back of the loudspeaker (electromagnetic not piezo by the way) with the gate connected via a thin wire to the processor side of the resistor driving the LED with drain to speaker and source to ground plane, having scraped away the solder resist next to the speaker connection. This could all neatly be added to the display side of the PCB. I also wasn't too keen on adding a capacitor to the base of the SS8050 NPN transistor (SOT23 marked Y1) as repeated reverse Vbe can degrade the hfe over time although it's absolute max is stated as 5V and momentary 3.3V pulses from the processor will probably be Ok.
I also brightened up the LED with a more efficient one and changed the 2kΩ resistor for a 470Ω.
The GM tube fitted was only 52mm long. Some people list it as j613r-614r but I think it might be a Gerniei 05gab1m2t. Either way it didn't seem very sensitive compared to the J321 in the other unit so I swapped them.
One thing I did notice was that my GC-01 didn't have the added load resistor you mentioned and removed and I found the HV applied to the tube was around 700V and the J321 manufacturer specifies 600V as the maximum. So I added a 47MΩ (should be 51MΩ according to on line photos) which brings the voltage down to 550V or there abouts measured with a x100 scope probe (10MΩ multimeter loads too much).
The whole thing works great now with clicks and decent flashes so thanks for the inspiration to modify the unit. It's quite a neat product.
The only reservation is that it seems perhaps a little too sensitive reading background radiation around 32 - 35 µSv/h instead of 27 µSv/h like I might expect here. Would lowering the GM voltage correct this or is µSv calibration built into the firmware and might changing tubes now not match?
Having said that and looked at the display again the average had fallen to 22 µSv/h but I've seen it as high as 50 µSv - so it depends when you look. I should try taking averages over half an hour to be more certain.
What I'm thinking is that clicks can be counted but the unit has no knowledge of the energy so a µSv reading must be calibrated either with a scaling factor in software or by scaling the average avalanche threshold by tweaking the voltage - what do you think?
Thanks for the detailed comments
For the load resistor, I subsequently changed to a 20M resistor, I think when I initially did the modification, the humidity was very high (I am in southern China, ie a tropical environment), so adding a fixed loading makes it less sensitive to environmental conditions. The issue with these crappy open loop power supplies is that each one will be different. I have personally seen quite large differences in the voltage generated (I also use a 100x scope probe for this, for the same reason).
The tube sensitivity is higher so for sure the calibration will be quite different, but that said, originally mine showed less than half what I expected for background in my location. The HH442 (the longer tube that looks like an Xmas tree light) has a solid steel cathode so you are losing almost all beta response.
I am working on a video about how to add shielding based energy compensation to low cost tubes like the J321. Energy compensated tubes are really expensive but the materials used are not, essentially you are just paying for the know-how.
The issues with the poor tolerance of the HV supply on lots of cheaper counters, is actually quite a serious problem. I have been looking into this as part of my 2nd video on UV sensitivity of GM tubes. The GM plateau region is often narrower than the tolerance of the HV supply. I have seen new counters that actually fully ionize the gas of the whole tube on particle events and needed an increase in the anode resistor value to ensure that the quenching process still works.
@studio326- Interesting stuff. I saw your UV video.
One simple way of making the HV more stable is toadd a couple of HV Zener diodes in series to Gnd from the output of the multiplier before the series resistor to the tube +ve. My cheap Geiger counter that had the J321 had two 200V zeners. Without them the voltage would go up to >500V but with them was very stable at a little over 400V with no dip when the scope probe was connected.
One very curious thing Uve discovered is that with the J321 in my GC-01 the main screen average and histogram screens read an average of around 30 µSv/h but I've noticed that the cumulative stored reading only reads around 10 µSv for every hour recorded - about 1/3 of the main screen readings. I remember you saying there was something wrong with the averaging - was this it?
However, I've seen pictures on line of the GC-01 where the main screen and histogram averages match the cumulative stored count.
I wonder if there's been a firmware mod factor to compensate for the insensitive tube that with the more sensitive J321 replacement somehow now doesn't get reflected in the cumulative stored reading. I can't quite work out why this would be the case and why any firmware compensation doesn't apply to both. Do you get this with yours too?
I temporarily swapped the inferior tube back in and the same discrepancy between average µSv/h and cumulative stored µSv for every hour occurs - so no special scaling factor for lower readings. With no tube in at all there are zero counts so no offset is applied either. There just seems to be around 1/3 of the live average stored as an accumulated figure. No idea why.
I just did a quick tear-down of that tiny "loudspeaker" in this, you are correct about it not being a piezo element. I put some notes in the community sections, thanks to you!
@@johnh9449 Some devices 'fiddle' the calibration, particularly when they use this HH442 tube (I found the same sort of strangeness with the HFS-10 product). Typically they want to get the background and one test source to be correct but a single calibration factor will not allow that to be done. It seems that they cheat and have different coefficients for different parts of the transfer function... Nasty stuff.
I will add the capacitor as you shown here. Also im wondering if the j321 tube will collect some alpha particles cutting the backplate expossing it. Nice video!
Unfortunately, alphas won't make it through the glass envelope of the GM tube. Tubes that detect alpha particles have special windows, make of materials such as mica. If you want really get a device that detects alpha particles, probably best to get one with a pancake style tube, it will have a lot more sensitivity. Some devices use a lower cost GM tube that has an 'end window'' but these are less sensitive. Devices like the Gamma sh-sh-sh-sh-scout, use that kind of low cost alpha, beta and gamma tubes.
Hi! Please let me know what is the current rating of the device's output to the J321 Geiger tube? I would like to add two tubes to increase sensitivity, but I'm not sure if the circuit will be overloaded. According to the specifications of the J-321 tube: Recommended working voltage: 380V, Starting voltage: < 350V. Since the tubes are connected in parallel, the voltage across each tube will be the same, i.e., 380V (V = IR) to calculate the current draw (I) for one tube is 38mA, two tubes operate in parallel, the total current draw for both tubes will be 76mA. If the device can safely provide at least 76 mA, then it should be able to efficiently power both tubes. If the device's current rating is less than 76mA, connecting two tubes may overload the circuits, I'm afraid! So, I would be grateful if you could measure for me if it's possible! Thank you!
I have no idea how two tubes in parallel would behave. I don't think that the current draw you mention is correct, typically the tube cannot be looked at as a resistance, it essentially has infinite resistance when there are no ionization events are occurring, then for a short time, a relatively low resistance when an ionization even causes an avalanche of electrons.
This is not a concept that I have any experience with...
@@project-326 It practically works and it has doubled sensitivity! I have the information from Chat GPT 4 that scores 155 on an IQ test, so by that metric it's smarter than 99.9% of humans. He did the calculations and it is possible! The only impediment is that I don't know the device's current rating at least approximately! Thanks anyway for the answer!
Hi! Thank you so much for the review and the upgrade of the product. Mine had the good tube so I only had to add the capacitor for particle sound. Is there any other way to make it sound louder ? I can bearly hear it ! Thanks again from Argentina!!
That is not a simple change, to increase the loudness needs a much more advanced circuit. I added a hole on the back of mine (see the community tab on the channel) which helps a bit. Perhaps add some EVA foam to seal the case to the PCB, that might increase the sound pressure level a little...
@@project-326Yes, I did notice the loudspeaker is supplied by the 3.3V regulated supply. I did think of connecting the speaker positive directly to the battery but that wouldn't increase it by much.
Another option would be to change the speaker (it's an electromagnetic device with a resistance of 15 Ω) for a bigger one (there's a plethora available) or wire a genuine piezo across the original glued to the back of the case to act as a resonator.
works but quiet on my device which has 5 screws.. the fith screw is under the label but offset and replaces one of the two screws securing the pcb.
A Geiger counter without clicks is like a woman without Tits. Thanks, I'll do this to mine when I find it, it's around here somewhere.🤣
Just needs a switch so it can be silenced when it starts driving me nuts...
There is an option in the menu that allows you to turn off the LED, that will also silence the sound from this mod too.
Great video, thank you! My first gc-01 bought mid 2022 has the centre hole fixing and a J321 tube, but the second (blue) one bought a couple of months ago, only has 4 holes and an even sh**tier tube than your one did - unmarked and 45mm long, but no extra resistor on the board, though the pads are there. I'm changing to a J321 tube and adding 100nF cap, but how do you unplug the display? The connector doesn't flip up to unlock.
Try to move the black, dark points, then the plug comes free. After inserting, push them to close.
@@jantepas7511 That works - nice one, thanks!
The display connector is pretty stiff to open the first time. It doesn't flip up, the grey tabs on each side of the connector slide forwards (ie towards the flexi). I faced exactly the same problem at first but I was able to be a little more brave because I kinda knew that it didn't matter if I broke this thing, I have an RC102 and KC761 as my main counters!
@@project-326 Thank you!
J321 Geiger Muller tube counter replace the tube in the above FNIRSI Geiger Counter?
If does depend on what is already fitted when you get the device. The vendor used to use J321, then last year changed to different crappy tubes. It seems that recently, they have changed back. If you already have that tube fitted, then don't change it...
How the fuck ? That's certainly the best quality and details channel I've ever seen !! I realy liked ! But, it's that usefull to add that capacitor if I uprgrading the firmware ? Because you said in the other video the update can now do the click sound ?
Thanks !!
That is just a factor of when I made these videos, The firmware upgrade supersedes the cap mod. Always learning new things!
Did this just now. Waiting for a M4011/J321 tube to replace the wee candlestick looking fecker that's in mine. Thanks a ton for this!
Great stuff!
Perhaps try your without changing the loading resistor first. Other folks have noted that the value on mine was really low and others that resistor might be more reasonable. If you get the improved performance with just a change to the tube, then you might not need that change
@@project-326 will do, thanks!
@@project-326 Got the J321 tube and installed it. I noticed there was no loading resistor at all on the PCB of the version I have. Seems to work fine and give better readings now though.
@@zeroequalsthree8649 did your J321 tube come with the spring clips to mount the tube to the PCB? If it did where did you buy it? My GC-01 came with the little candle stick tube and doesn't have clips to mount the J321 tube
Did you also encounter software bugs? Mine doenst reebot sometimes, just the red LED stays on.
Mine doesn't do that, seems they fixed that one. Shame they can't fix the basic issues with the shitty UX...
FNIRSI Geiger Counter or BR-6 Geiger Counter? Witch is better?
I have a full review of both of these devices on my channel, please take a look. It kind of depends upon what aspects are more useful to you, as to which is better...
Great Info Thanks. Trying to get a J321 but all I can find are m4011. The stats look the same. Any thoughts? Also just got my Gc-01, But it looks like I got one of the off brands, Mine dose not say Fnirsi, Tried to save $5, (d’oh!) Any way it’s got the short candle looking tube with no saddles to mount the J321, I can get around that. And it does not have the battery yours has. It has what looks like a green aa battery. It works fine but talk about bait and switch. Now I will have to spend $30 to upgrade it, LoL
Thanks again
Yes the M4011 is equivalent as far as I can see. Don't beat yourself up about if it is branded FNIRSI or not, they are all made at the same factory here in Shenzhen, and the brand is owned by the factory itself. Both branded and unbranded have suffered the same fate... The new tube should also come with the correct pins to solder to the PCB and grip the tube.
Thanks for the info, i will go ahaed and get one.@@project-326
mine has extra screw in middle and resistor where you said to remove one if it was the rubbish version. the tube is the good one you say to have.
Can send photos of pcb . Plan to do click mod. Very glad mine comes with the correct tube! Bought off aliexpress earlier on in Russia Ukraine war. Just in case! Something like £38 shipped to uk, inc vat.
If it has the correct tube, then don't make any changes (except the click mod if you want), and be happy that you have one from before the cheaper version was released.
@@project-326thanjs for advice. Not rushing to change anything else! Will leave it as is. What voltage should be across the tube? Could test that to check :)
@@revolvingwonder3777 About 380V, but it is really hard to measure as most multi-meters have an input impedance of about 10M Ohms which for the small PSU involved is actually a significant load. Be sure to measure before the anode resistor in any case...
@@project-326 thanks! Does sound harder than usual. Hmm sounds like i got more to learn and a chat with my father…. Hmm hmmm
Im confused… i thought americium 241 was alpha that could be shielded with paper? My gc-01 is not only picking it up but shielding it with paper makes no difference?
The majority of the energy that is lost by Am-241 is lost as alpha particles but some will also be seen as a 59.5 KeV gamma ray emission. There are also many isotopes in the decay chain that are also going to emit some gamma rays too and this is what the GC-01 is detecting.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americium-241
I have this Geiger counter. When I turn it off, the date is gone. When I turn it on again, the date is always 2022-01-01. It keeps stored other settings but not the date. Any suggestions?
There is a coin cell inside the product for exactly this purpose, try replacing it...
@@project-326 Yes that was the problem, thanks a lot.
Can I send you a picture of what tube they put in mine. You would not believe it. It is about 2cm long.
Yes, there even 2 versions of the shit device, one is really short. Just buy a nice J321 and be gone that piece of $hit..
morganstudio326@gmail.com
Okay, I was really shocked, J321 already ordered. Did yours came with the (fuse) holding clamps? Because they are also missing in the device. Mine measured 0.6uS/h when it was actually around 2-3uS/h@@project-326
I doth my cap sir 🫡 not only have you intrested me in this subject but also shown me an affordable way to start “experimenting”myself, I successfully changed the tube which immediately transformed my gc-01 and had some success adding the particle clicks but unfortunately managed to ruin r32 (small soildering is harder than it looks) could anyone advise me on the value of r32 as have tried a couple but the led now seems far brighter and my click is quieter. I can only assume the led is now pulling to much current? Anyway… thank you again i am now fully subscribed and looking foward to future videos. (I love the dry wit and humour btw) will.
I think it is 3.3K - I also damaged the pads for that resistor (R32) on my first attempt. In my case, it seems that age is not an advantage when soldering SMT.
Used a 4k (cos thats all i had) works a treat 😎👍🏻
Hello, I received mine with the wrong tube.
I plan to change the tube with a J321.
But it is not clear to me whether R38 must be removed with the new tube?
Because for me R38 is empty
what is its value?
FYI the marking on R32 is 30B and measures 2K in circuit.
THANKS