I love your content! I came across your channel two days ago and I have been almost binge watching your videos. I really appreciate the knowledge and presentation it takes to show these abstract topics. Thank you very much!
this is a really good follow up to the last video in that, there you proposed the question why no to colonising water, here we have the answer to why yes to colonising land
I'd have to go with option 3. It makes the most sense and has a lot more evidence backing it up. Just because they can make wings into leg like stubs doesn't exclude the possibility that leg like stubs started as gills.
Isn't the linked study suggesting a merger of the genetic network material from the different parts? It reminds me of the research of the horse hoof. Usually you have the vestigialization of the fingers so that from 4 toes equine ancestry got to 3 toes in Merychippus for example and then 1 solid hoof in horses, donkeys and zebras of today. _However_ a genetic study pointed out that the fingertip genetic info of the 2 reduced fingers somewhat got merged additionally into the middle finger's genetic makup - so that the anatomical frog of the hoof appears to have partially merged finger material and that the single toe is actually not a single toe due to the act of borrowing parts of what did belong originally to 2 reduced fingers.
I think 3 makes the most sense. The muscle structure associated with insect wings is simply nothing like in an insect leg. But it is very much like the muscle structure associated with external gills. The fossil evidence of early insects in general is extremely limited, so having no fossil evidence for this doesn't really mean anything. Most insects with aquatic larvae stages today also have incomplete metamorphosis, so it only makes sense that they would keep external gills that they can later use in a wing like way when they get big enough.
Powered flight has developed independently 3 times amongst vertebrates. (Pterosaurs, birds, and bats) Perhaps powered flight was also developed independently 3 times in insects?
I'll draw a long bow here. Do you think it's possible that insect wings did not evolve from an existing body structure? For instance, a small, but benign appendage mutation that was carried through many generations. Over time it evolves into a beneficial anatomical feature, not necessarily at first for flying, but are the the precursors for wings?
A part doesn't exactly have to evolve from a single previously-existing part. A sequence that's recognized by DNA-binding proteins expressed in one body part can get copied into code that was previously expressed in another body part, so that the new part has the which-part-is-this marker from one part and the how-to-grow code from another. -- My first thought for what proto-wings would do is to make the insect look big, and startle a predator long enough for the insect to fall to the ground and start running away.
@doragonsureia7288 Yes birds are theropods. But not all theropods were birds. Researchers believe multiple theropods were capable of powered flight, some of which didn't evolve into birds, so including them in the list seems important.
A fourth theory can be argued that their abdomen shell wasn’t formed sealed. So that shell splits in two and creates the casing for the membrane between shell and flesh to form wings. A lot of insects have wings that are under a casing. But then again I don’t know which came first, the beetle or the fly
No, it's neither a theory or hypothesis. There's no evidence backing it up. You need that first. You're just guessing. The Paper Nautilus doesn't count as it's a mollusk and far more removed from insects than humans are.
I'm not an expert, but here's a guess: A multi layered shell would provide extra protection, with a large and flat shell on the back being useful. Next, the ability to split open and move the layers of that shell would allow a sort of launching or flicking ability, or perhaps a gliding ability when falling. Finally, this beetle-like opening shell could turn into wings
@Alice_Sweicrowe I am just some guy speculating with only a high school biology education and an interest in watching educational things on the Internet. I made a hypothesis based purely on my basic knowledge of what modern insects look like and a little bit about their biology. I'm curious to know exactly which parts I got wrong, is there something about beetle carapaces that makes them unable to have evolved from a shell with multiple layers?
@bengoodwin2141 Yeah, it didn't happen. Out of everything presented I think that option one is the least likely as well. Look at the wing structure of insects. Does the webby part look more like a carapace or more like branchia? Then the creator even gave you the evidence pointing to the 3 most likely scenarios as presented by scientists who have looked at the evidence. If you want to make the big discoveries you're going to have to do more than I did. You're going to have to go to school and more than ace everything. You'll need a graduate in at least one STEM field. The bigger the wave the bigger the degree necessary. Maybe Integrated Engineering if you want to invent stuff. If you really want to get into it I suggest you start trying to talk to, well, people in the fields. I say all of this because I used to think like you, but you haven't seen my ship that takes us to Andromeda, have you? Dreams are great, but knowing is better.
Imsects, birds, and bats? I think you forgot about pterasaurs and theropods. I think they are important to mention when talking about animals to develop flight, they did it before birds and bats after all. Otherwise I enjoyed the video.
wouldn't it be funny if powered flight convergently evolved in insects twice, from the hybrid AB leggy route and the C gill route lol that'd really throw off paleontologists and entomologists
From the gills, I can see an insect laying its eggs and very very low oxygen content water, in order to have enough oxygen to grow it needs large gills that flap in order to get any and all oxygen to be found in their environment. A fluke of nature has it keep its wings/gills after emerging from the water and...
"The ability to fly is relatively rare" Dude, most of animal species are beetles. And speaking of insects only, only silverfishes are non-winged insects (excluding thoose that lost their wings like fleas)
Correct. But within the insects, its pretty well supported that the evolution of wings only occurred once. It was just so wildly beneficial it was preserved across most of the class. Compare this to something like the evolution of venom, which has happened independently countless times, and flight becomes a pretty lucky dice roll.
@@EntoExplorer I think what you (and me) mean is that on the species level it isn't that rare but when we go up and up in taxonomical levels, it's getting more rare. Right?
It's been proven that evolution isn't something an organism accomplishes only through breeding.we capture DNA from organisms all the time. Look up retrovirus. Our ability to have a womb is speculated to be a gift from a virus. Symbiosis like bacteria becoming part of another organism like cyanobacterial being captured by algae or plants or even slugs. Therefore the theory of evolution is wrong so...
Doing it first makes it hard to track how you did it
They also selfishly refused to write it down.
Amazing video, love your content
Glad you enjoy it!
I love your content!
I came across your channel two days ago and I have been almost binge watching your videos. I really appreciate the knowledge and presentation it takes to show these abstract topics.
Thank you very much!
Glad to have you here! Thanks
this is a really good follow up to the last video in that, there you proposed the question why no to colonising water, here we have the answer to why yes to colonising land
I'd have to go with option 3. It makes the most sense and has a lot more evidence backing it up. Just because they can make wings into leg like stubs doesn't exclude the possibility that leg like stubs started as gills.
Love your channel
Thanks for being here!
Interesting and factual information about insects. They are our buzzing companions everywhere. Keep up the good work.
Dope video yo. Thanks. Can we get some of Arachnids
I will look into it. Fair warning though, I haven't spent a ton of time working with spiders and the like.
I want arachnids with wings, can we evolve that?
Excellent vid. Thanks. I just subscribed. I look forward to your next vid.
Deserves more views, great video
I appreciate that!
Thank you
Isn't the linked study suggesting a merger of the genetic network material from the different parts? It reminds me of the research of the horse hoof. Usually you have the vestigialization of the fingers so that from 4 toes equine ancestry got to 3 toes in Merychippus for example and then 1 solid hoof in horses, donkeys and zebras of today. _However_ a genetic study pointed out that the fingertip genetic info of the 2 reduced fingers somewhat got merged additionally into the middle finger's genetic makup - so that the anatomical frog of the hoof appears to have partially merged finger material and that the single toe is actually not a single toe due to the act of borrowing parts of what did belong originally to 2 reduced fingers.
I think 3 makes the most sense. The muscle structure associated with insect wings is simply nothing like in an insect leg. But it is very much like the muscle structure associated with external gills. The fossil evidence of early insects in general is extremely limited, so having no fossil evidence for this doesn't really mean anything. Most insects with aquatic larvae stages today also have incomplete metamorphosis, so it only makes sense that they would keep external gills that they can later use in a wing like way when they get big enough.
how do you create so many videos in such a short amount of time?
Powered flight has developed independently 3 times amongst vertebrates. (Pterosaurs, birds, and bats) Perhaps powered flight was also developed independently 3 times in insects?
honestly sounds like it could be parts of all three theories
I'll draw a long bow here. Do you think it's possible that insect wings did not evolve from an existing body structure? For instance, a small, but benign appendage mutation that was carried through many generations. Over time it evolves into a beneficial anatomical feature, not necessarily at first for flying, but are the the precursors for wings?
A part doesn't exactly have to evolve from a single previously-existing part. A sequence that's recognized by DNA-binding proteins expressed in one body part can get copied into code that was previously expressed in another body part, so that the new part has the which-part-is-this marker from one part and the how-to-grow code from another.
--
My first thought for what proto-wings would do is to make the insect look big, and startle a predator long enough for the insect to fall to the ground and start running away.
I belive in theory No 2, arthopods always used to create new way to use limbs
Flying fish, too (Exocet spp.)
You forgot Pterodactyls. They are the only group of flying animals that unfortunately went extinct
Pterosaurs you mean
Pterasaurs you mean. It's also believed theropods developed flight.
He said, "among living animals...".
Birds are theropods, so yes they developed flight
@doragonsureia7288 Yes birds are theropods. But not all theropods were birds. Researchers believe multiple theropods were capable of powered flight, some of which didn't evolve into birds, so including them in the list seems important.
Pterosaurs???
A fourth theory can be argued that their abdomen shell wasn’t formed sealed. So that shell splits in two and creates the casing for the membrane between shell and flesh to form wings. A lot of insects have wings that are under a casing. But then again I don’t know which came first, the beetle or the fly
No, it's neither a theory or hypothesis. There's no evidence backing it up. You need that first. You're just guessing. The Paper Nautilus doesn't count as it's a mollusk and far more removed from insects than humans are.
I'm not an expert, but here's a guess:
A multi layered shell would provide extra protection, with a large and flat shell on the back being useful.
Next, the ability to split open and move the layers of that shell would allow a sort of launching or flicking ability, or perhaps a gliding ability when falling.
Finally, this beetle-like opening shell could turn into wings
@@Alice_Sweicrowe I'm not, why would you think that?
@Alice_Sweicrowe I am just some guy speculating with only a high school biology education and an interest in watching educational things on the Internet. I made a hypothesis based purely on my basic knowledge of what modern insects look like and a little bit about their biology. I'm curious to know exactly which parts I got wrong, is there something about beetle carapaces that makes them unable to have evolved from a shell with multiple layers?
@bengoodwin2141 Yeah, it didn't happen. Out of everything presented I think that option one is the least likely as well. Look at the wing structure of insects. Does the webby part look more like a carapace or more like branchia? Then the creator even gave you the evidence pointing to the 3 most likely scenarios as presented by scientists who have looked at the evidence. If you want to make the big discoveries you're going to have to do more than I did. You're going to have to go to school and more than ace everything. You'll need a graduate in at least one STEM field. The bigger the wave the bigger the degree necessary. Maybe Integrated Engineering if you want to invent stuff. If you really want to get into it I suggest you start trying to talk to, well, people in the fields.
I say all of this because I used to think like you, but you haven't seen my ship that takes us to Andromeda, have you? Dreams are great, but knowing is better.
Imsects, birds, and bats? I think you forgot about pterasaurs and theropods. I think they are important to mention when talking about animals to develop flight, they did it before birds and bats after all. Otherwise I enjoyed the video.
Definitely forgot pterosaurs, it can be argued that for most practical purposes, birds are theropods.
wouldn't it be funny if powered flight convergently evolved in insects twice, from the hybrid AB leggy route and the C gill route lol that'd really throw off paleontologists and entomologists
Boy kisser knows paleontology no way
@JcoleMc way.
From the gills, I can see an insect laying its eggs and very very low oxygen content water, in order to have enough oxygen to grow it needs large gills that flap in order to get any and all oxygen to be found in their environment. A fluke of nature has it keep its wings/gills after emerging from the water and...
"The ability to fly is relatively rare"
Dude, most of animal species are beetles.
And speaking of insects only, only silverfishes are non-winged insects (excluding thoose that lost their wings like fleas)
Correct. But within the insects, its pretty well supported that the evolution of wings only occurred once. It was just so wildly beneficial it was preserved across most of the class. Compare this to something like the evolution of venom, which has happened independently countless times, and flight becomes a pretty lucky dice roll.
@@EntoExplorer I think what you (and me) mean is that on the species level it isn't that rare but when we go up and up in taxonomical levels, it's getting more rare. Right?
Wasps you mean.
Hypothesis, not theories. Don't feed the fools that go around saying that evolution is only a "theory"
It's been proven that evolution isn't something an organism accomplishes only through breeding.we capture DNA from organisms all the time. Look up retrovirus. Our ability to have a womb is speculated to be a gift from a virus. Symbiosis like bacteria becoming part of another organism like cyanobacterial being captured by algae or plants or even slugs. Therefore the theory of evolution is wrong so...
:D