Hay Everyone! Thank you so much for watching! Let me know what your thoughts are to Finnegrin and his storyline, I hope that you understand the criticism I had with it! This type of video, I want to continue making, so any feedback helps tremendously!
A little hot take : The Season 5 finale was terrible. I disliked how the only reason Calum, Rayla, and Ezran won the battle against Claudia was because of Stella, If Stella wasn't their they surely would have lost.
I think I ended up liking the baitling plotline a lot specifically because of how POINTLESS they are. Finnegrin is so desperate to cling onto any sense of control he can after his failure against Domina that even someone taking something as simple as a few pieces of live bait from him leads to him going into full hunt mode, because it reminds him that not only does he not have control over the ocean like he originally wanted, he doesn't actually have complete control over ANYTHING. He doesn't even have complete control over his OWN HOME, since someone was able to take something from it without his permission. I bet that even if Ezran stole something Finnegrin was planning on throwing away, it would still have a similar effect. The biggest complaint I have is that Finnegrin felt like a complete dope in his first appearance, who literally could've been a nameless one-time character and served the same purpose. It was only after the gang was captured that we actually got to see his interesting traits. He only becomes an actual chatacter in Episode 8
I do see how that can sort of redeem it, but I think it would have been much better for it to bot have been baitlings but something actually important to the plot
I like how the audience is lulled into a false sense of security with Finnegrin. You can easily assume that he just uses Sea Legs and Elmer for intimidation because he doesn't seem to be particularly threatening on his own. As soon as Rayla breaks free, you assume she's just going to kick his ass. She downed Elmer like he was nothing and was ready to give the business to everybody else on the ship, since the crew would clearly be no match for her in a fight. You can see them back off as soon as she's free, so it looks like Rayla's going to beat Finnegrin to a pulp. Then, with absolutely no warning, Finnegrin whips out a spell that we've never seen before and the situation suddenly turns deadly serious. After seeing him as a joke for the last 2 episodes, you're caught off guard by the realisation that Finnegrin doesn't need Elmer or Sea Legs to be a legitimate threat. This guy earned his reputation.
@@tomnorton4277 if you look carefully his crew looks quite unhappy and scared from the beginning. He pretty much enslaved them. They can't escape, "sea is the jailor". Finnegrin is amazingly well written villain.
Oh Finnegrin is so well written. At the beginning you get a false feeling of security in front of him, because he doesn't really seem to be threatening himself and apparently needs Elmar to seem threatening. But when Rayla breaks free on the ship and takes Elmar by surprise without any problem, you think that Finnegrin won't be a problem either. Then Finnegrin suddenly comes out of nowhere with a very strong spell that we have never seen before, which he probably also uses to keep his crew under control. So that's the reason why everyone obeys him. He deceives us by appearing to be nothing without Elmar or his boat, but in reality he doesn't need any of that to be threatening. This is very well writing and perfect show dont tell !
Yea you also have a point, also it's ok to disagree, but I feel like the way it's paced, doesn't give the payoff it should. But yea they obviously tried an angle, it just didn't work for me
@@TheGlowingHay The last Episode of S5 begs to differ, seeing how the Sun elves got a civil war going. Sadly I´d bet they resolve that topic in like one or two episodes
I think it’s because Scumport is full of outcasts so it makes sense that outcasters would try and get along despite race as much as they can. Plus if they deep-dived into the whole race thing it would be quite pointless and boring imo because we already have the Sunfire Elves civil war subplot.
My main issue is that Elves in S1 - 3 are presented in such an ethereal otherworldly manner. In s4 and s5 we get Terry a satirical humanlike comic relief that provides nothing about the intricacies about Earthblood elf culture in a season with the only world building being the poachers. In s4 we get Finnegrin and Akiyu once again a satirical archetype of humanlike characteristics with ZERO worldbuilding on tidebound elf culture. I remember seeing artwork of a tidebound elf who helped trap Aaravos in prison thinking to myself how mysterious and awesome the character design was and how excited i was to see them. Can guess my disappointment that in the Ocean dedicated book we get the two lamest tidebound elf characters both in design and narrative/thematic resonance.
Definitely! I feel like they forgot what made us fall in love with their world in the first place.. just because Humans can now go to Xadia, doesn't mean that we expect everything to be just like it would be in the human part of the continent
The Elves were never presented as otherworldly or etherial. The Dragons were but the Elves were always Humans with Primal Magic and pointy ears. Heck, one of the main points of the first 3 seasons was that Elves and Humans aren't as different from each other as they think they are. Finnegrin is actually the first Elf who DOES present a somewhat otherworldly idea. This is because he directly contradicts the innate nature of his own Primal Source, something that can only be explored with an Elf because they're born with an instinctive understanding of whichever Primal Source they're connected to. Finnegrin has known from birth how the Ocean Arcanum works, yet he fights against it, probably because he was traumatised by Domina Profundus. That's a much more interesting idea to explore with an Elf than it would be with a Human because Humans aren't born with an instinctive understanding of Primal Magic. A Human being a control freak is nothing special. A Tidebound Elf being a control freak, when the whole point of the Ocean Arcanum that they've understood from birth is to surrender control, is a unique idea. I'm not saying the execution was flawless but the idea was brilliant and made Finnegrin one of a kind.
I kinda agree. I feel like they just keep adding characters for the sake of it and therefore the plot is losing focus and the og main cast are losing out on character development. For example Terry. I love Terry, he’s a sweetheart but what is his purpose? You can argue and say it’s comedic relief but we already had Soren doing that for us (and he does it better imo) therefore it feels like Terry’s screen time is a waste of time especially when you consider the fact that Claudia hated Elves throughout S1-3 and then all of a sudden in S4 she has an Elf boyfriend? They could’ve at least shown us Claudia’s character development of her starting to like elves, let alone date one! I like the characters that come and go like Ava, that illusionist moonshadow elf, blind pirate and that short tidebound elf (forgot their names lol) but the new characters they decided to keep throughout I don’t see necessary. (Also sorry Terry D:)
@@HeartStruck333 Terry is Claudia's conscience. Every time Terry told Claudia that she is going over the top she backed down. Kinda to show that Claudia is not exactly a villain. More like a person who keeps finding herself in a wrong place and lacking a moral compass. And also to remind that Claudia usually is quite cute.
I agree for the most part When I first saw Finnegrin and how the show presented him he didnt command any screen presence at first, a contrast to this would be viren from s1-s3 who stole every scene he was in. That was until the whole torture scene that made us go "Wait, he actually is pretty scary" they shouldve led with that premise from the start because the ship scene itself Finnegrin was looking a real threat that made you go " oh dang someone may actually die" just for a brief moment and with his abilities it raised a question "how are they going to beat him?" . Then at the end we all saw what happened he was used as a step ladder for Callum to gain the ocean arcanum
Yea I definitely also had moments where I was shocked because all of a sudden I considered whether or not to take this threat seriously (which says a lot about the rest of the Season) but I think sadly because also other threats were so non existent, it felt harder to take him seriously... I really liked what they tried to do though, and I hope they really nail it for the next one, and don't shy away from going darker and grittier
I actually like that Finnegrin doesn't seem particularly threatening at first. It means that when he whips out Blood Freezing, you're legitimately caught off guard. At first, people would just assume that Elmer and Sea Legs are the only reasons people fear Finnegrin but whipping that spell out of nowhere shows that this guy actually means business whilst metaphorically kicking the audience in the nuts in the process. Finnegrin doesn't need Elmer or Sea Legs to make people afraid of him because we've never seen anybody else, not even Aaravos, freeze a person's blood in their veins.
@@TheGlowingHay sounds like you just not watch many movies. The sweet-talking crime lord is not that rare villain type (and IRL too, unfortunately). It was obvious from the start that he is very dangerous. From popular animated movies, the most recent example of such villain that I can think of is Jimmy Crystal.
Hi, glad ur back! I would like to add that I disliked how Ezran said "Finnergrin has something he shouldn't have." The later we find out that the something he shouldn't have are just baitlings.
Yeaaa ...it made me think along the lines of "what if he stole the nova blade?" ...just to be disappointed to see it was something to have more cutesie animals
Yea if I would have changed anything to actually give it more impact, is to make Finnegrin actually have stolen something really important for the further plot
I'm really glad you enjoyed it, and I've seen that many others did too! In the end, that is the goal, and I just wanted to point out the writing issues that don't seem to be slowing down as of right now... I really hope S6 hits different for me
I really wished they'd have lampshaded how unusual it is for an elf to have major beef with a dragon. The elves seem to practically worship the dragons and respect them... but Finnegran here feels entitled to roam a dragon's domain doing as he pleases and wants to kill the dragon too. Not knowing your place is what the elves/dragons accuse humans of doing. How an elf developed that mindset would be interesting to explore... In fact, I had at first assumed Scumport was so diverse and interracial because it's full of shady people. The elven population are the outlier elves who hate the natural order of things, and the human population is your typical, greedy humans. These groups would pair well together. But... this was never addressed... humans and elves just vibe together cuz reasons.
Soren was such a cool character with all his conflicts in Season 1-3. He was a comedic character but he was always more than that. In season 4 and 5, he has been relegated to just a comedic character. So, it was extremely jarring for him to suddenly become serious in that episode for 5 minutes only to again become just a comedic character. I wish the show kept Soren a respectable character with some comedic elements like he was in the first 3 seasons.
Exactly! I loved how we grew to see that Soren was actually a person, and dealing with things, and had feelings himself! ...I'm sad they don't really let him have that as much, but I guess it means that he most likely "cant" die, because then we would have no comedic relief character anymore... so I guess there's that?
Honestly, I thought that Ezran saw in that chest something REALLY important, like with that shining and Ezran saying that Finnegrin "has something that doesn't belong to him" I had a thought that maybe he somehow has the original royal crown of Katolis (sorry, I just don't remember what happened to it originally), or some kind of human artifact that was lost a long time ago. Like, you know, something actually more significant to Ezran or the plot istelf overall.
I don't really know what happened with the crown either tbh... what I would have loved is to tie it i to the whole plot of the Nova Sword. Like what if he had the sword, or a key to the tower or something to do with it, to make it relevant for the further plot
This is another moment where the story is held back because no matter how dark it gets, it's still written for children - including fart jokes and baby glowtoads as a plot device significant enough to cross an evil pirate. It's tonally inconsistent.
@@Stefan-xt5skI love how they made their name reveals like we are supposed to care, but all I remember is one being called hat, other finger or something like that
Egh, imagine you discover several kittens or puppies who can talk like a human and grown-up version of whom have near-human level of intelligence. Who also happen to be slaughtered soon. There are many cases of adults getting themselves killed while trying to save a pet. And Ezran is not an adult. And furthermore, he is a king, and he is used to have his wishes fulfilled, and promptly so. There are many things this show can be criticized for, but criticizing the glowtoad subplot is just... Comes from lack of observations and experience of interacting with humans in real life?
To me, Scumport did not work. It turned the mysterious and ethereal Elves into humans with elvish makeup. They could have gave us the Tidebound Elves’ Atlantis and give a proper introduction to Archmage Akiyu. We also could have H.P. Lovecraft moments of Deep magical creatures foretelling possible futures.
Definitely! I feel like even just the design for elves there became so uninspired, like the creators first animated humans before realising...oh wait, we're in Xadia... Like what happened to the ethereal and mysterious world of Xadia?
@@TheGlowingHay To be fair the when we first meet Rayla she was essentially just a human with horns. Apart from her connection to the moon there is nothing ethereal about her or any of the other Moonshadow elves. The design for the elves hasn't really changed all that much from season 1. Also the "human" lands were once part of Xadia as evident by the Moon Henge in season 2, so there is no reason to make every aspect of Xadia hiper-fantasy. If anything I think this helps the story the creatures are trying to tell: we are more alike than we are different.
@@amandawade7803 yeah but the moon shadow village still felt more inspired than this port, you could literally remove the elves and put this city on the independent islands of west xadia and say that this is a lawless pirate town and it would fit better, nobody would be feel that this city is out of place
@@ManiyaVinas what is wrong with it if it could be on west side? 1. The elves once occupied the west just as the humans once occupied the east, implying that not every part of Xadia looks as whimsical as the Moonshadow forest. 2. The only human lands we've seen has been Katolis, how do we know there aren't others areas that reassemble the east? 3. The fact that Bait grew up in the west it wouldn't be a stretch to say that leviathans are also in the western oceans. 4. This just my opinion, the moonshadow is beautiful, but isn't all that inspired. You can search "magic forest elf village" and you'll find plenty of pics that look just like it.
Zing! - - MOONSHADOW POWERS (that's season 2 episode 7 if I am not mistaken) Come on! Rewatch the show. Elves in TDP never were "mysterious" nor "ethereal".
I really liked your analysis. I definitely agree that there was a lot of tonal whiplash. I’m super disappointed that Finnegrin was scared of being attacked by the Archdragon of the Ocean one minute, then literally risking his life to seek revenge on a bunch of kids for stealing some animals, and yet not one did the Archdragon ever show up to make good on her promise. (To be fair, it is a big ocean, but she is m a g i c) One thing you didn’t point out was Callum giving into the temptation to use dark magic again, which I found interesting. But I totally agree that the writers did Soren dirty and he deserves justice.
If I were to re-write thsi arc, I'd probably have Callum and his friends kidnapped by Finnegrim or they willingly go on his boat to get to a location and he takes interest in them and enslaves them. His backstory and motivations for wanting to kill the Water Dragon are fleshed out, and he actually tries to do so. I mean, in the show Callum tells him the ingredients for the dragon killling spell and nothing happens with this. Instead of trying to feed Rayla to a sea monster he could try to use her as the sacrifice needed for the "last breath". Or maybe he sacrifices one of his crewmates and the end of this arc is him nearly killing the water dragon.
Actually, Rayla did tell us she went to Scumport in her search for Viren while they were on the ferry to Scumport, saying she "had to search high and low, and this place was the lowest." it's just that it's such a brief sentence that covers her time in Scumport that doesn't do her time in it justice, like they should've had a scene where Rayla mentions that it was following a dark mage that turned out not to be Viren, and stuff related to that incident that convinced her to come home to Callum. I think what would've worked better is if in the Great Bookery of Lux Aurea Callum in addition to finding out about the Nova Blade and the spell that could free Rayla's Parents he found out some information that points them to the Archmage Akiyu and she reveals that the location of Aaravos' prison was put down in a book that was stolen by a Tidebound Elf pirate captain then Rayla realized that it was Fiinegrin from the description Akiyu gave, then they go to Scumport to try to get it. Then, when they get to Scumport he says he'll give them the book if Callum Joins his crew or something like that, it doesn't have to transpire exactly like that it just has to be organic.
The Dragon Prince Puzzle House Spoilers Kpp'ar was working on ways to help humanity with science (ex. Engineering), not magic. In the Puzzle House tower, Kpp'ar made a Merry-Go-Round machine for Claudia and Soren to play in before Viren trapped him in a magical coin. Prior to being trapped, Kpp'ar also kidnapped and imprisoned the Stone Giant Kruha (they look like giant Earthblood-like giant trolls) who guarded a map to the realm of the unicorns. Only a person who is pure of heart can see and read the map. For the unpure, like Viren, they can only see a blank paper. In the story, Claudia frees Kruha and the giant asks Claudia, "Find me again someday Claudia. In a place less dark." Sometime later, Claudia manages to read the map to the realm of the unicorns. The story reveals Claudia used the map to reach the realm of the unicorns which is likely somewhere near Katolis. When she arrived, the unicorns likely welcomed Claudia and gave her one of their horns as a gift. Unicorns cannot be easily captured because they are very powerful in their use of Star Primal Magic. It is likely in The Dragon Prince Season 6, Terry will take Claudia to the Stone Giants for medical assistance after Rayla sliced off Claudia's leg in a duel. From there, Rayla reunites with Kruha but the giant will be saddened by how dark Claudia became.
I kinda liked Finnergrin because he's another reminder that elves are capable of evil,in spite of what some people might think I do agree that he could have been done better and the seasons need more than 9 episodes to explore what the writing team probably wants to explore. Also, I think someone else said it first but I think the worldbuilding needs a lot of improvement. A WHOLE lot of improvement
I'm glad you like the character! I do too, don't get me wrong, I just don't like the way he was handled ...in the story, which is sad. I really hope they blow us away with the world building in S6. Better late than never.
rayla was looking for viren in season 4 in season 5 they explain that so rayla has the coin of the trip that she was looking for viren so she has already been there that's also the reason she knows how to call the boat with the man or woman and the place
Right, but that doesn't work writing wise. Imagine watching the show without any outside input, things would feel really random. Like, yes, they said she looked for Viren, so you can "assume" she must've gone to the port, must've gotten the coin somehow and all that, but that's just lazy and doesn't explain anything rather than just create a solution to their problem with no real explained reason. Like imagine if Rayla just randomly started doing Star Magic ...you could say "oh well you can assume she learned that in her time away", but it doesn't make it seem less random.
6:28 I feel this also happens earlier with the gang trying to reach the sea arch mage, and theres a pool of water. Ezran wonders whether this is the entrance to the mages home, and I'm automatically thinking several things: 1. Is it a tunnel of water that leads to the mage, and if not there, where? 2. Is it short enough for the protagonists to reach without dying? And, 3. How will they get through without drowning(eg maybe magic)? But then ezran(THE KING OF KATALIS!) just swims through first, and without waiting to see if he's ok the rest just follow him. The inside of the water tunnel literally never gets shown, and when they all come out the other side in another room(in an undisclosed location) everyones just like 'we're here!', and I'm left so confused. None of the obvious questions above are asked and everything just turns out fine. Like ik its a tiny moment but its just so badly portrayed
Totally agree with this video. I remember being incredibly disappointed to see how easily the group put the fate of the world on the line to save a couple little pets. They BARELY got out of the mess, and easily could have lost everything. The group's ship was destroyed, they were all captured, (kinda) tortured, and Rayla was about 1 second from dying when Callum saved her. The only reason the group BARELY made it out was because Soren's last ditch effort to convince his enemy he doesn't deserve to be treated poorly. Like, seriously?! Is that going to be what stops Aaravos? This whole thing made me completely loose faith and investment in the enitre crew. It shows they need to rely on pure luck to barely make it out alive, which is frustrating. The first few seasons were so much more fun
The Kipu-Men of the Tidal Tribes/Costal Clan’s/Fishing Factions regularly visit the Sea of the Cast Out, and huge Eels like the one Finnegrin was eaten by, the Kipu-Men love to feast on, and imagine their shock when they open one up and see Finnegrin inside. Here are some basics on the Kipu-Men: They are from 1ft 11in to 2ft tall, the men of their race have prominent Squared or Wide Rectangular noses, and they are generally quite friendly. They would Find Finnegrin, help him recover, and then they will learn about him, and teach him on how to be a Kind and Respectable person.
Haha this would be kinda cool actually. I really like the idea of Finnegrin and I hope that if they do bring him back, they work out how to make him ...work
exactely! I found your analysis very grounded! I personally dind't care about most of the characters and storylines in this season, and felt like not engaging at all, even boring.. I would have expected Aaravos to act more, or to be set free at the end..and no..the "goos ones" always wins. I found the Finnegrin part good just because is the only moment where they are really in danger, but still not convincing cause at the end it's just solved without tangible conseguences. I found the Viren-Claudia storyline the only interesting one, but not satisfing at the end. I would have expected Claudia to meet with Viren on the beach after her defeat, and i was eager to watch them talk after Viren choise to die. I understand this wouldn't have work with a super-villain Claudia in the next season..but is not explained why Viren is no longer there, and personally i was very into their relationship, which was the only one about i personally cared in the season, and i will be very disappointed if Viren dies without any last confrontation with her.
ok you find it strange that callum can immediately cast ocean spells but he looked up everything about ocean magic at the beginning so I think it makes sense that he already knew something and with the spell that they can breathe underwater he looks it up
Yeaaa it does kinda make sense, but also it feels weird. Like I already knew that theoretically it could be explained with him having read up on things, but it doesn't have the same effect as having seen him see and then use the Aspiro Spell, for then it result with him being able to do it alone. Like that alone carried so much weight, and they tried to emulate the result without the buildup...
That was actually really cool to show how ruthless Finnegrin is, and I think that did sort of work, but I think by that point I thought it was just so difficult to take him seriously personally
I'm really happy you enjoyed him a character! Honestly I really liked the concept of him as well! I liked how he was able to also do spells, sadly though he just wasn't well done in my opinion. I was really excited for him too
I think the Finnegrin arc should be cut from s5. The first problem is that multiple characters have to be ruined to get to the confrontation. Zubeia needs to be wounded so that our main group need a boat. This is indirectly because of Callum. He decided to stay longer at the library, even if he knew of the danger. Callum and Rayla had previously a bad encounter with one of these corrupted beasts. So Callum should know about the danger. That Zubeia gets bitten in a hamfisted way, I can overlook it. But the second character that gets ruined is Ezran. They have established that Aaravos is this huge threat and that our main group has to reach the prison asap. But suddenly Ezran has time to steal something from a dangerous pirate. In both cases the main group got punished, because of the stupidity of the group. The problem is that it feels justified and that they got in trouble. The second problem is that scumport and finnegrin don't add much to the story and the world. They are pirates, but who are they raiding? They were never mentioned in s1-4. The human kingdoms? Well Viren didn't mention them in his s2 speech. Xadia seems also completely unhabitated. The villain group traveled a whole river by boat without encountering a single elven village. Scumport doesn't make sense. I think the finnegrin arc is an argument why more episodes won't fix the problems of this show. I mean we don't need that pay off from the set up that Bait is used as a bait for fishing. Furthermore Callum could have learned the ocean arcanum in a different way. Instead of Finnegrin we could give a proper battle between our heroes and Claudias group.
Exactly how I feel about it too. It felt so unnecessary, but worse yet, it actively made the plot need the characters to make out of character decisions and actions, leading to a Waterfall effect. I loved how tight the writing was originally, and how everything seemed to make sense within the world that was created, and everything characters did felt real and deserved and aligned with who they are. I really hope they manage to capture that in S6 again. But you're right, no extra amount of episodes would have solved the inherent problem of how that while story was introduced and how it played out.
the ting that i didnt lik was how esey they surender and then how easy tey ware defeted and remember when callum punch the captan what stop him to punch him whit lighting as he did in Luaurea x
I agree with most of your toughts, just a couple of rakes on my mind, first is that while there are leviathans, i think he wants bait for the rarest and mor valuable kind of the species, like tuna for example, there's the yellowfin that we all know and is cheap, and there is the red tail that can be worth 50k+ for 1 of them, same type diferent value, i think that is the take with the leviathans, it is just the common term for the beast, and with Soren, he was always like that, serious when it needs to be, but still a dork, i see him like kronk, one thing i notice is that for Callum to finally access the ocean arcanum he needed to be tainted with dark magic first, as well when he understood sky arcanum, so maybe theres a correlation.
Oooh I really like the correlation with Dark magic and him understanding arcanums! I see the point to leviathan though, that does make more sense, but I guess we still kinda have to assume that, which isn't great
Actually Finnegrin using Blood Freezing out of nowhere is one of the things that DOES work about him. At first, people would assume he's a typical scumbag. Sure, he's in charge and talks a big game but he's not particularly menacing so the audience wouldn't really take him seriously. If anything, they'd assume that Deadwood AKA Elmer was a bigger threat. Then Finnegrin suddenly whips out a spell that nobody else in the show has ever used and proves that he's not a guy you should fuck with unless you're fortune enough to have no blood. Keeping that under wraps until Rayla freed herself and was ready to kick some ass was actually a very good writing decision because it lulled the audience into a false sense of security.
maybe the reason villads showed the little beets was because he sees that ezran likes glow toads and therefore wants to raise the price one for three glow toads
I guess? But that's not really trade.. like you wouldn't give someone 30$ for 10$ ..it doesn't really fit his character either to make trades like that
I know it doesn't make a difference, but just wanted to point out. Finnegrin said that if he was ever CAUGHT a mile off shore, not exactly that he couldn't go a mile off.
Trueeee, but also, I don't really get the feeling from how scared he seems, that he also WAS out further ...at least not often. But yea, as you said, it doesn't really make a difference but you're right!
O.k first with Rayla having the coin and calling for the boat carrier its obvious that she learned about this place during her search Viren and in her search she learned about the boat ride from to scum port and how to get there. Its not some big jump in logic for her to know about this place. Also having explore here off screen isn't a poor writing choice since we are learning about this port now through Rayla so its not some big leap in logic to understand that she been here before. second. The place being rude to strangers do's present the idea that this place is a dark back stabbing place and just because we meet a few friendly faces here doesn't automatically take away from that fact third The stakes are clear there here to get a boat and hed to "The sea of the Outcast" to prevent Aaravos from getting free and clear goal. And No they didn't get a boat offscreen after they met up with Captain Pete he offered them a ride to the sea in the episode Four Finnegrin showing his Glowtoads was him offering to trade Bait an Older Glowtoad for a younger one. He's a deal maker and he was willing to make an offer for them. Also saving the Baitlings felt fine because the crew now had a boat, also Ezran saving the baitlings makes sense for his character because he is animal lover and wants to protect everyone. Fifth. The Leviathan catch is such minor detail its not some big immersion breaking information. Heck who's to say that isn't a rare Leviathan that Finnegrin caught Six. Just because we didn't see Finnegrin boat sink doesn't mean we can tell that he has a problem with Freedom or he doesn't miss his former Crab. We get this by the way his character acts. From him wanting to protect his Hermit crabs showing us how he values his crab, to him treating Elmer like he is nothing, to going after the group for stealing his baitlings, On top of that we see how much he tortures Callum, that he was willing to cut off the gang's hands and the fact he froze Raylla's blood. His actions "Show us his character". While a flash back would of been nice I think we got enough information based on how acts. His Internal conflict isn't that he has nothing but the fact he doesn't like to not be in control. seven, The Tone was Fine for what they were doing. Just because the ferry man was dark and spooky doesn't mean a few jokes couldn't be cracked here. When they made it to Scum port there was still a sense of Danger with how the people acted in this port specifically Finnegrin. Also they knew it was bad thing to steal from him that's why try their best to be as discrete about it. As for the whole torture scene its not completely out of place compared many other Dark scenes in the dragon prince so its not so out of place not care.In fact I think a lot of people would agree that this is one of best moments in the series.Speaking of dark moments the whole freezing of her blood is honestly Eight with the hole Elmer situation I think its fine enough because we see the constant neglect he get's from Finnegrin. We know how Dangerous Finnegrin is to the rest of his crew. So its not a huge leap in logic to understand what his situation is like and to sympathize with him.As for Soren I was honestly fine with him not having much to do since there was a lot this season so him having this moment with Elmer was fine Nine Callum learns the Ocean Arcanum by simply letting go throughout the episode he tries so hard be in control same with Finnegrin its only when he realized Finnegrins desire for control accepts thing as they are its the same thing he struggled with Rayla when she left him
Hey, I'm really happy that you put so much effort into giving feedback! I don't necessarily agree with all of it, but that's ok. You clearly enjoyed this part a lot more, and it made sense to you, and that is the point in the end. I hope you understand that I still really like the show, and I do just want the best for it, and even though you clearly disagree, quite a few people agree, so I would say that some of it at least didn't work the way they wanted to. I'm glad it did for you though, and I just hope they manage to pull all the rest of us back with the next Seasons!
@@TheGlowingHay Hey I just wanted to give my outlook of the story.While sure I think some part of the narrative could of been improved I still enjoy none the less. However I can still see where your coming from
I really hope tdp see some of your videos, the show just has not felt the same since season 3 and they definitely need some help. I didn't completely hate this season, but it's just not the same show anymore. Nothing seems to be taken seriously and there are so many missed opportunities. Really the whole problem started with season 4 when they decided to fast forward 2 years. Suddenly we're just being told about all these changes without them showing us anything. I mean if you're gonna fast forward at least do some flash backs to show what happened to explain what's happening. Anyways I guess it could've been worse, but you can just tell they're not putting in the same amount of effort. The last episode was definitely the best, but that part at the end with the mushroom mage, just why? Again just lots of random parts that didn't make sense, and so many missed opportunities. I just hope they don't keep making the same mistakes.
Thank you so much for that! I agree that it feels very different, and I hope they manage to figure it out for the next Seasons.. they want to make it darker and more mature, but haven't quite managed to convey that yet
Darker and more mature is definitely a good direction to be heading in, but honestly I feel like it was more mature in seasons 1-3 They need to start backing off on some of the humor and just make it more serious, otherwise it's just not gonna feel right. Although Terry's re-leaving joke was amazing lol.
I didn't personally have the same issue you did with the serious moments feeling out of place. I thought season 5 did a much better job striking a balance between the humor and the darker content than season 4 did, although there were certainly instances I thought worked better than others. That said, I agree that Finnegrin as a character is pretty weak. His motivations don't feel particularly genuine or believable based on the short time we have with him, and I think the fact that they kill him off right at the end of episode 8 signifies his lack of importance to the overall narrative. It seems like the only reason he exists is to push Callum to his limits so that he not only uses dark magic, but awakens his connection to the Ocean arcanum. And while those things ARE important, I think they could have found a way to tie this in with the overall plot rather than creating an entire detour/side story just to put Callum through this big character moment. Especially when there are SOOO many other plot threads in the overarching story that still need to be explored. It's hard to even argue that Finnegrin is valuable for world-building, because I don't think he really is. I don't feel like I learned anything about the Tidebound Elves specifically (such as their culture) from Finnegrin or from Scumport. In that area, even season 4, I think, did a better job giving me an idea of what to expect from the Earthblood Elves. As an added issue I have, I hate that this conflict is kicked off by the group stealing glow toads. I'm not saying I don't think the glow toads' lives mattered, and I definitely think making a move like that is in EZRAN'S nature. But why the heck did no one bother to ask what they were stealing from Finnegrin before putting their lives at risk? Isn't Rayla supposed to know Scumport and be familiar with Finnegrin? Wouldn't she be concerned about the group making such a reckless decision when they all have so much at stake? That made no sense to me whatsoever. Honestly, they could have fixed that plotline and tightened it up so much simply by having Finnegrin find out Callum is a mage another way and then decide to pursue the group for that reason. I guess we needed more cute animal friends for the kids though lol (not that I don't like cute animals, but come on, we don't need that many). Which, I'm not even sure why, since Netflix just changed the series' age rating thanks to all the heavy content.
the place is dark and scary but i already know people are lying in that place so maybe it wasn't a rare fish but just something else and yes i know i'm not very clear with the names I'm just not going to look up all the names
No all good, there are a lot of names here ..which shows how big this created world is, but yea if that's the case, then they again don't do enough to actually explain that to make it clear. So if still doesn't really work.
It's possible that the "leviathan meat" was a scam like how one of the merchants was selling "essential oils". But it I agree it wasn't explained compeently just like most things in the show.
I think the story would've benefitted from spending more time at scumport to flesh things out I think all of the ideas are great and overall the execution was better than the previous season, but it still isnt perfect
Soren is my big sore spot. He's reduced to comedic relief whenever he isn't directly needed, and is only ever NOT that when Plot Demands It. He's such a missed opportunity - I've talked with one of my friends at length about it, how Soren could have been allowed to be comedic now and again, while ALSO having a very valuable, regularly referenced talent in things like fighting, tactics, and environmental observation. He's the HEAD OF THE CROWNSGUARD and 9 times out of 10 he's acting like an idiot and achieving little of value. (at least to my recollection) Soren rarely EVER gets to show off the talent he clearly has (HEAD!!! CROWNSGUARD!!!) and it just upsets me. He could easily be the martial counterpart to Callum, mastering all these fun ways of physical combat (or teaching the REST of the group fun ways of physical combat!), or being the tactical genius of the group in between innocently not understanding how life actually works outside the castle when his rank means NOTHING to people, but no. Instead we get 'idiot who sometimes does something useful'.
Absolutely! I loved how they managed Sorens character originally ...hence my channel pfp, but it seems they didn't think much further than him switching sides. Such a wasted potential too... I'm currently working on a character analysis of Terry, since I think just his entire character is a miss, but Soren was also high on my list of characters I wanted to talk about. Glad to see I wasn't the only one though!
Finnegrin worked well enough for me, but I agree with your points. His quick end was disappointing and Soren's big moment felt too easy. Just get beaten without defending yourself at all and the evil henchman, who we know nothing about, suddenly becomes a friend. Power of friendship I guess. This season had multiple awkward moments which were seemingly meant to specifically hammer home the point that things are serious, not like during last season. Among the awkwardness and little explained, conveniently solved subplots, there was only one moment that completely took me out of it. Amaya's sacrifice was just stupid. Nothing explained why our big and powerful archdragon suddenly couldn't help anymore, or even Callum with his magic. Also, why are the only corrupted creatures in the Sunfire Elf Capitol hordes of banthers? I understand budget constraints, but this is a weird choice and doesn't make sense.
Yeah, I absolutely agree, nothing in this season seems to have an actual impact. I know what the show is trying to make me feel, but it doesn't work. During this episode I was asking myself "is that really necessary?", like Ezran insisting on stealing the baitlings. Just, can we please move on to finding Aaravos' prison, please? Finnegrin could be this cool, suave type of character but honestly he lacks charisma. I cannot take him seriously and because of that his failure is just weak. Like, I know he's going to fail, because heroes have indestructible plot armour, but I also know that, say Voldemort is going to fail, but he is still a scary villain. Also I think Finnegrin dies is quite pathetic way, which could work if they set him up better, as this prud person, but he's just humiliated in the end. Also, another thing about Finnegrin. He uses magic in quite brutal way, right. But before that we spend so much time focusing on dark magic being the worst. But here, obviously we can see that elemental magic can be used in quite brutal manner. You know, intent matters and such. Feeling of being in control being more addictive than the type of magic itself. I'm bringing it up cause I don't know if the show is aware of that, since they are focusing on dark magic soo much. Also the thing about Scumport. Was I hallucinating that they were humans there alongside elves? Like, we focus so much on humans vs elves in previous seasons and suddenly there is this place where they just like coexist? Like, seriously, was I seeing things? xd
I agree so much with this! Also, about Scumport, I thought the same thing. I also feel like the elf designs got so uninspired, that they look so similar to humans, they might as well be... I feel like they forgot Xadia was supposed to be this mysterious and new land for humans.
I really find the Finnergrin plot was really unnecessary. I feel it could have been avoided and have the team go straight to the sea of the castout. Episodes 7,8 were wasted without team zym working towards anything that is related to Aaravos. Really the whole plot of ep 9 could have been shifted to ep 7 so that there could have been more work done. it feels like the Finnegrin Arc was "filler'. In fact, s5 had better pacing for the sunfire elf civil war plot than the main plot. Because they spent so much time on the finnegrin plot, the final confrontation with team Claudia felt very rush. I feel the character development for callum, like rayla being tortured and etc, could have actually been done with the Claudia confrontation making it more interesting. Because Claudia fails to get the prison but she would still try to take it forcefully and leverage off team zym. it would have gotten similar outcomes but will move the main plot faster.
I completely agree! I realise they wanted to add some ocean magic, to show us new elves and what they can do ...but this was NOT it. I really did like the Sunfire Elf story line as well, it kinda didn't feel as ...real as the previous season, but still much more grounded and like there was actually something on the line... it's never good when you're more worried about a subplot than the actual main characters...
This was a really interesting video and well edited, too. I hope you make more of these analyses. I liked how you emphasised that the story should 'make people care,' aside from the plot making sense. Now, I personally enjoyed this mini-arc, but I agree that the plot holes really took away from the impact of it all. I thought that Finnegrin's conflict with the arch dragon wasn't necessary - he's the kind of villain who doesn't need a deeper motive, I feel. There's also the fact that the leviathan didn't eat Soren so... does he just eat elves? It is quite disappointing that we didn't spend any time learning about the water elf culture. They don't even live in the ocean. (Btw, I think Rayla though Viren might have been hiding in Scumport, because people don't seem to care about dark magic there). Anyway, I still really liked Finnergrin. I thought his design and his ship were really cool. He was established as a threat and he proved to be one in episode 8. He also forced Callum into doing dark magic, which will likely be important next season. However, I also thought that him learning ocean magic was pretty out of nowhere. As for Soren, I wish he had more moments to shine, but I still appreciate that it was thanks to him that they defeated Finnegrin. I just needed some backstory for Deadwood; since I didn't know why he was so loyal to Finnegrin, I didn't really care for him.
Thank you so much for that! I completely understand liking the character tbh, I still do too, which might be weird after that while video, but he still was kinda just such a cool concept, even if he could have been done better... I am planning on definitely making more analysis videos!
Finnergrind act more like a disposable plot device than being a real threat. His design was cool but he's an unnecessary character or so I say, the whole pirate arc is unnecessary and forgettable. Frankly, the short conversation between Zubeia and her dead husband is much more memorable, touching and did a much better job in building character development than the whole pirate arc could have done.
@@NguyenTran-mf9gj I understand why he might have felt like a plot device, but I still think it was interesting to see that some elves might want to kill the arch dragons, and not shy away from dark magic. Even though Finnegrin was defeated, I think this confrontation had an impact on Callum's character. This time, using dark magic had none of those terrible side effects on Callum, which might make him more willing to use it in the future. It's these consequences on the heroes, these small victories, that make me like a villain more. But we'll see if this is proven true in season 6.
why it looks so scary but isn't it's actually just a trading place aleen there is a lot of lying and not being fair in that place i don't mind that i found season 4 worse
Yea Season 4 wasn't it either, but to say "it's just a trading place" is a bit reductive to what they tried to build up with it. The fact that they didn't manage to actually pull it off means though that it might as well have just been a random trading place... but then they shouldn't have tried to make it something else imo
Very true.. I like how they keep making the characters more expressive, but what I thought was special about the show was its writing which was shown with choppy animation. ...now we have the reverse, and it doesn't work, so I hope they get back to where they were before
I don't think it's controversial any more to have "unpopular" opinions. Everyone's been doing it for so many years on youtube, I'd say the real novelty would be for someone to make a video expressing the mainstream opinion. Finnegrin was a very well crafted character and very well received by the fans so obviously youtube reviewers would be negative about him. I'd be shocked by the opposite.
Ah yea no I get your point. It is sad that a lot of opinions seem to be shown just for interaction, and I'm sorry if you felt like I fall into that as well. I understand where you come from. I just genuinely had a hard time with how the character and his story was written. Like I was just watching the show, thinking "man I really want to like this character ..but why do they do this..." I hope my points can stand outside of the general "youtuber makes video that covers controversial topic", but yeaa i see how it falls i to that.
There are a lot of characters in this series have potentials but being set aside. In this season alone, Domina Profundis is the definition of wasting potential when she doesn't even have more than 2 minute of screen time in a episode that named after her 😢
Hey, so sorry about that🙁 I'm ok, just took some time for me to feel in a place where I could work on stuff again. I wish I could've just continued making videos, but I wasn't quite there yet mentally... thanks for coming back though! Means a lot!
No, all good! I'm happy to hear criticism, and my opinion isn't fact! Thank you for watching the whole thing though! Would be interested to hear your thoughts
@@TheGlowingHay I'm fascinated by Finnegrin and how he and Callum mirror each other. He tries to convince Callum that he want's freedom and in order to acquire that freedom he needs to kill Domina Profundis while calling himself fearsome as a means of conveying how helpless and frustrated he feels , in an attempt to control Callum. In this attempt to control Callum, Callum is suddenly faces with the Freedom vs Control fight. Callum has always thought of himself free from dark magic, and this is the first time he realizes that's not true. Callum finally submits and surrenders control, thereby understanding the ocean, mirroring Finnegrin to fights for control and meets his end. I had some other thoughts but this is already getting long enough. :) Thanks for listening.
@@amandawade7803I think it would be much better that they had made Domina Profundis a companion of the gang on their journey to stop Aaravos. Domina is the queen of the sea, she have connection with Aaravos and she could share some secrets/stories about Aaravos that the gang needed. Why they wasted that opportunity and create this disposable pirate captain who gonna die anyway is beyond me. Sometime, using the character you already have is the best choice instead of creating a new one that is much more forgettable and disposabale.
@@NguyenTran-mf9gj I think using a dragon we met for 5 seconds would be boring. She has no emotional connection to the group, and if the archdragons helped with everything, everything would be too easy with no character development. It would be no different if the eagles flew the fellowship to Mordor in LOTR. This interaction with Finnegrin was far more interesting because it unlocks a serious dilemma for Callum, that ended up being good since he now has ocean magic, but also bad since he used dark magic and could have terrible consequences later.
@@amandawade7803 I mean they could have find onther way for her to be involved deep into the story since this season named "Book Five: OCEAN". Domina being the queen of the sea and even have 1 episode named after her but she only have live 2 minutes of screen times doesn't seem fair at all. The fact that she have a very gorgeous design and tempting voice, 2 minutes of screen times is such a huge waste potential. She could have acted as an anti hero, an uncooperative companion since she doesn't seem to trust human and only travel with them to get rid of Aaravos.
I mean why they didn't make Domina Profundis a new companion for the gang? She could have played a bigger and more important role in this season rather than as a plot device. Considering the title of this season is "Book Five: OCEAN", which supposed to be a main theater for a sea dragon like Domina since she appeared in the cover of this season. Like come on, she's the boss of the ocean and the gang's ally is the Dragon Queen herself should be more than enough to convince Domina to join the journey and protect them from the dangers of the sea. And Finnergrin's biggest problem involved with Domina too. I still don't understand why they have to create more unnecessary and uninteresting characters like Finnergrin when they already had Domina Profundis, who have connections and also more secrets/stories to share about Aaravos. What a waste for such a gorgeous and interesting character 😮💨
I completely agree! Especially since the beginning sets up Domina to be very important, I thought she was going to be a main threat or just generally very important, the same way Rex Igneous was supposed to be
That's one of several reasons why Season 4 is better than Season 5. The writers actually built up to Rex Igneous and it paid off big time when we met him. Not only was his confrontation with Zubeia as perfect display of both visual storytelling and less is more - so much was said in the scene without a single line of dialogue - but I got a strong sense of who Rex was outside of simply being an Archdragon. Domina Profundus just showed up for a cameo and was never seen again. We barely know anything about her. And what a waste of Jennifer Hale. She's a big name in the voice acting community and she was only given 2 lines.
Hay Everyone!
Thank you so much for watching! Let me know what your thoughts are to Finnegrin and his storyline, I hope that you understand the criticism I had with it!
This type of video, I want to continue making, so any feedback helps tremendously!
A little hot take : The Season 5 finale was terrible. I disliked how the only reason Calum, Rayla, and Ezran won the battle against Claudia was because of Stella, If Stella wasn't their they surely would have lost.
@@krimapatel5060 yea because for some reason they lost the spell that gives them speed under water and callum didnt try to fight back
I think I ended up liking the baitling plotline a lot specifically because of how POINTLESS they are. Finnegrin is so desperate to cling onto any sense of control he can after his failure against Domina that even someone taking something as simple as a few pieces of live bait from him leads to him going into full hunt mode, because it reminds him that not only does he not have control over the ocean like he originally wanted, he doesn't actually have complete control over ANYTHING. He doesn't even have complete control over his OWN HOME, since someone was able to take something from it without his permission. I bet that even if Ezran stole something Finnegrin was planning on throwing away, it would still have a similar effect.
The biggest complaint I have is that Finnegrin felt like a complete dope in his first appearance, who literally could've been a nameless one-time character and served the same purpose. It was only after the gang was captured that we actually got to see his interesting traits. He only becomes an actual chatacter in Episode 8
I do see how that can sort of redeem it, but I think it would have been much better for it to bot have been baitlings but something actually important to the plot
I like how the audience is lulled into a false sense of security with Finnegrin. You can easily assume that he just uses Sea Legs and Elmer for intimidation because he doesn't seem to be particularly threatening on his own. As soon as Rayla breaks free, you assume she's just going to kick his ass. She downed Elmer like he was nothing and was ready to give the business to everybody else on the ship, since the crew would clearly be no match for her in a fight. You can see them back off as soon as she's free, so it looks like Rayla's going to beat Finnegrin to a pulp.
Then, with absolutely no warning, Finnegrin whips out a spell that we've never seen before and the situation suddenly turns deadly serious. After seeing him as a joke for the last 2 episodes, you're caught off guard by the realisation that Finnegrin doesn't need Elmer or Sea Legs to be a legitimate threat. This guy earned his reputation.
@@tomnorton4277 if you look carefully his crew looks quite unhappy and scared from the beginning.
He pretty much enslaved them.
They can't escape, "sea is the jailor".
Finnegrin is amazingly well written villain.
Oh Finnegrin is so well written. At the beginning you get a false feeling of security in front of him, because he doesn't really seem to be threatening himself and apparently needs Elmar to seem threatening. But when Rayla breaks free on the ship and takes Elmar by surprise without any problem, you think that Finnegrin won't be a problem either. Then Finnegrin suddenly comes out of nowhere with a very strong spell that we have never seen before, which he probably also uses to keep his crew under control. So that's the reason why everyone obeys him. He deceives us by appearing to be nothing without Elmar or his boat, but in reality he doesn't need any of that to be threatening. This is very well writing and perfect show dont tell !
Yea you also have a point, also it's ok to disagree, but I feel like the way it's paced, doesn't give the payoff it should. But yea they obviously tried an angle, it just didn't work for me
I love how elves and humans are suddenly well integrated and living together with no explanation at all.
omg, this bothered me so much 😅
Yeaaa it is strange, but I'm glad they moved away from making that the main source of conflict tbh
@@TheGlowingHay The last Episode of S5 begs to differ, seeing how the Sun elves got a civil war going. Sadly I´d bet they resolve that topic in like one or two episodes
@@darkwoods97no, in one 5 minutes speech that their feelings are valid but they are not so they need to shut up
I think it’s because Scumport is full of outcasts so it makes sense that outcasters would try and get along despite race as much as they can. Plus if they deep-dived into the whole race thing it would be quite pointless and boring imo because we already have the Sunfire Elves civil war subplot.
My main issue is that Elves in S1 - 3 are presented in such an ethereal otherworldly manner. In s4 and s5 we get Terry a satirical humanlike comic relief that provides nothing about the intricacies about Earthblood elf culture in a season with the only world building being the poachers. In s4 we get Finnegrin and Akiyu once again a satirical archetype of humanlike characteristics with ZERO worldbuilding on tidebound elf culture. I remember seeing artwork of a tidebound elf who helped trap Aaravos in prison thinking to myself how mysterious and awesome the character design was and how excited i was to see them. Can guess my disappointment that in the Ocean dedicated book we get the two lamest tidebound elf characters both in design and narrative/thematic resonance.
Definitely! I feel like they forgot what made us fall in love with their world in the first place.. just because Humans can now go to Xadia, doesn't mean that we expect everything to be just like it would be in the human part of the continent
The Elves were never presented as otherworldly or etherial. The Dragons were but the Elves were always Humans with Primal Magic and pointy ears. Heck, one of the main points of the first 3 seasons was that Elves and Humans aren't as different from each other as they think they are.
Finnegrin is actually the first Elf who DOES present a somewhat otherworldly idea. This is because he directly contradicts the innate nature of his own Primal Source, something that can only be explored with an Elf because they're born with an instinctive understanding of whichever Primal Source they're connected to. Finnegrin has known from birth how the Ocean Arcanum works, yet he fights against it, probably because he was traumatised by Domina Profundus. That's a much more interesting idea to explore with an Elf than it would be with a Human because Humans aren't born with an instinctive understanding of Primal Magic.
A Human being a control freak is nothing special. A Tidebound Elf being a control freak, when the whole point of the Ocean Arcanum that they've understood from birth is to surrender control, is a unique idea. I'm not saying the execution was flawless but the idea was brilliant and made Finnegrin one of a kind.
I kinda agree. I feel like they just keep adding characters for the sake of it and therefore the plot is losing focus and the og main cast are losing out on character development. For example Terry. I love Terry, he’s a sweetheart but what is his purpose? You can argue and say it’s comedic relief but we already had Soren doing that for us (and he does it better imo) therefore it feels like Terry’s screen time is a waste of time especially when you consider the fact that Claudia hated Elves throughout S1-3 and then all of a sudden in S4 she has an Elf boyfriend? They could’ve at least shown us Claudia’s character development of her starting to like elves, let alone date one!
I like the characters that come and go like Ava, that illusionist moonshadow elf, blind pirate and that short tidebound elf (forgot their names lol) but the new characters they decided to keep throughout I don’t see necessary. (Also sorry Terry D:)
@@HeartStruck333 Terry is Claudia's conscience.
Every time Terry told Claudia that she is going over the top she backed down.
Kinda to show that Claudia is not exactly a villain. More like a person who keeps finding herself in a wrong place and lacking a moral compass.
And also to remind that Claudia usually is quite cute.
I agree for the most part
When I first saw Finnegrin and how the show presented him he didnt command any screen presence at first, a contrast to this would be viren from s1-s3 who stole every scene he was in. That was until the whole torture scene that made us go "Wait, he actually is pretty scary" they shouldve led with that premise from the start because the ship scene itself Finnegrin was looking a real threat that made you go " oh dang someone may actually die" just for a brief moment and with his abilities it raised a question "how are they going to beat him?" .
Then at the end we all saw what happened he was used as a step ladder for Callum to gain the ocean arcanum
Yea I definitely also had moments where I was shocked because all of a sudden I considered whether or not to take this threat seriously (which says a lot about the rest of the Season) but I think sadly because also other threats were so non existent, it felt harder to take him seriously...
I really liked what they tried to do though, and I hope they really nail it for the next one, and don't shy away from going darker and grittier
I actually like that Finnegrin doesn't seem particularly threatening at first. It means that when he whips out Blood Freezing, you're legitimately caught off guard. At first, people would just assume that Elmer and Sea Legs are the only reasons people fear Finnegrin but whipping that spell out of nowhere shows that this guy actually means business whilst metaphorically kicking the audience in the nuts in the process. Finnegrin doesn't need Elmer or Sea Legs to make people afraid of him because we've never seen anybody else, not even Aaravos, freeze a person's blood in their veins.
@@TheGlowingHay sounds like you just not watch many movies.
The sweet-talking crime lord is not that rare villain type (and IRL too, unfortunately).
It was obvious from the start that he is very dangerous.
From popular animated movies, the most recent example of such villain that I can think of is Jimmy Crystal.
Hi, glad ur back! I would like to add that I disliked how Ezran said "Finnergrin has something he shouldn't have." The later we find out that the something he shouldn't have are just baitlings.
Yeaaa ...it made me think along the lines of "what if he stole the nova blade?" ...just to be disappointed to see it was something to have more cutesie animals
@TheGlowingHay Right? Like, I know the baitlings are super cute, but they just seem so useless.
Yea if I would have changed anything to actually give it more impact, is to make Finnegrin actually have stolen something really important for the further plot
@@toma.5781Yess
I personally enjoyed the part with finigrin, but I agree with you that they could've done it better
I'm really glad you enjoyed it, and I've seen that many others did too! In the end, that is the goal, and I just wanted to point out the writing issues that don't seem to be slowing down as of right now... I really hope S6 hits different for me
@TheGlowingHay Ya, I hope season 6 is better also
I really wished they'd have lampshaded how unusual it is for an elf to have major beef with a dragon. The elves seem to practically worship the dragons and respect them... but Finnegran here feels entitled to roam a dragon's domain doing as he pleases and wants to kill the dragon too. Not knowing your place is what the elves/dragons accuse humans of doing.
How an elf developed that mindset would be interesting to explore...
In fact, I had at first assumed Scumport was so diverse and interracial because it's full of shady people. The elven population are the outlier elves who hate the natural order of things, and the human population is your typical, greedy humans. These groups would pair well together.
But... this was never addressed... humans and elves just vibe together cuz reasons.
Soren was such a cool character with all his conflicts in Season 1-3. He was a comedic character but he was always more than that. In season 4 and 5, he has been relegated to just a comedic character. So, it was extremely jarring for him to suddenly become serious in that episode for 5 minutes only to again become just a comedic character. I wish the show kept Soren a respectable character with some comedic elements like he was in the first 3 seasons.
Exactly! I loved how we grew to see that Soren was actually a person, and dealing with things, and had feelings himself! ...I'm sad they don't really let him have that as much, but I guess it means that he most likely "cant" die, because then we would have no comedic relief character anymore... so I guess there's that?
Honestly, I thought that Ezran saw in that chest something REALLY important, like with that shining and Ezran saying that Finnegrin "has something that doesn't belong to him" I had a thought that maybe he somehow has the original royal crown of Katolis (sorry, I just don't remember what happened to it originally), or some kind of human artifact that was lost a long time ago. Like, you know, something actually more significant to Ezran or the plot istelf overall.
I don't really know what happened with the crown either tbh... what I would have loved is to tie it i to the whole plot of the Nova Sword. Like what if he had the sword, or a key to the tower or something to do with it, to make it relevant for the further plot
This is another moment where the story is held back because no matter how dark it gets, it's still written for children - including fart jokes and baby glowtoads as a plot device significant enough to cross an evil pirate. It's tonally inconsistent.
@@Stefan-xt5sk it was recently changed to rat 14 btw
@@Stefan-xt5skI love how they made their name reveals like we are supposed to care, but all I remember is one being called hat, other finger or something like that
Egh, imagine you discover several kittens or puppies who can talk like a human and grown-up version of whom have near-human level of intelligence.
Who also happen to be slaughtered soon.
There are many cases of adults getting themselves killed while trying to save a pet.
And Ezran is not an adult.
And furthermore, he is a king, and he is used to have his wishes fulfilled, and promptly so.
There are many things this show can be criticized for, but criticizing the glowtoad subplot is just... Comes from lack of observations and experience of interacting with humans in real life?
To me, Scumport did not work. It turned the mysterious and ethereal Elves into humans with elvish makeup. They could have gave us the Tidebound Elves’ Atlantis and give a proper introduction to Archmage Akiyu. We also could have H.P. Lovecraft moments of Deep magical creatures foretelling possible futures.
Definitely! I feel like even just the design for elves there became so uninspired, like the creators first animated humans before realising...oh wait, we're in Xadia...
Like what happened to the ethereal and mysterious world of Xadia?
@@TheGlowingHay To be fair the when we first meet Rayla she was essentially just a human with horns. Apart from her connection to the moon there is nothing ethereal about her or any of the other Moonshadow elves. The design for the elves hasn't really changed all that much from season 1. Also the "human" lands were once part of Xadia as evident by the Moon Henge in season 2, so there is no reason to make every aspect of Xadia hiper-fantasy. If anything I think this helps the story the creatures are trying to tell: we are more alike than we are different.
@@amandawade7803 yeah but the moon shadow village still felt more inspired than this port, you could literally remove the elves and put this city on the independent islands of west xadia and say that this is a lawless pirate town and it would fit better, nobody would be feel that this city is out of place
@@ManiyaVinas what is wrong with it if it could be on west side? 1. The elves once occupied the west just as the humans once occupied the east, implying that not every part of Xadia looks as whimsical as the Moonshadow forest. 2. The only human lands we've seen has been Katolis, how do we know there aren't others areas that reassemble the east? 3. The fact that Bait grew up in the west it wouldn't be a stretch to say that leviathans are also in the western oceans. 4. This just my opinion, the moonshadow is beautiful, but isn't all that inspired. You can search "magic forest elf village" and you'll find plenty of pics that look just like it.
Zing! - - MOONSHADOW POWERS
(that's season 2 episode 7 if I am not mistaken)
Come on! Rewatch the show. Elves in TDP never were "mysterious" nor "ethereal".
I really liked your analysis. I definitely agree that there was a lot of tonal whiplash. I’m super disappointed that Finnegrin was scared of being attacked by the Archdragon of the Ocean one minute, then literally risking his life to seek revenge on a bunch of kids for stealing some animals, and yet not one did the Archdragon ever show up to make good on her promise. (To be fair, it is a big ocean, but she is m a g i c)
One thing you didn’t point out was Callum giving into the temptation to use dark magic again, which I found interesting. But I totally agree that the writers did Soren dirty and he deserves justice.
Ah yes, I should've gone into that with Callum, I'll get it in another one dw. Thank you so much for the feedback though! I'm glad you enjoyed!
If I were to re-write thsi arc, I'd probably have Callum and his friends kidnapped by Finnegrim or they willingly go on his boat to get to a location and he takes interest in them and enslaves them. His backstory and motivations for wanting to kill the Water Dragon are fleshed out, and he actually tries to do so. I mean, in the show Callum tells him the ingredients for the dragon killling spell and nothing happens with this. Instead of trying to feed Rayla to a sea monster he could try to use her as the sacrifice needed for the "last breath". Or maybe he sacrifices one of his crewmates and the end of this arc is him nearly killing the water dragon.
Actually, Rayla did tell us she went to Scumport in her search for Viren while they were on the ferry to Scumport, saying she "had to search high and low, and this place was the lowest." it's just that it's such a brief sentence that covers her time in Scumport that doesn't do her time in it justice, like they should've had a scene where Rayla mentions that it was following a dark mage that turned out not to be Viren, and stuff related to that incident that convinced her to come home to Callum.
I think what would've worked better is if in the Great Bookery of Lux Aurea Callum in addition to finding out about the Nova Blade and the spell that could free Rayla's Parents he found out some information that points them to the Archmage Akiyu and she reveals that the location of Aaravos' prison was put down in a book that was stolen by a Tidebound Elf pirate captain then Rayla realized that it was Fiinegrin from the description Akiyu gave, then they go to Scumport to try to get it. Then, when they get to Scumport he says he'll give them the book if Callum Joins his crew or something like that, it doesn't have to transpire exactly like that it just has to be organic.
This. This would be perfect! It would actually tackle the "Rayla" problem a little as well! ...you should ask if they need more writers.
The Dragon Prince Puzzle House Spoilers
Kpp'ar was working on ways to help humanity with science (ex. Engineering), not magic. In the Puzzle House tower, Kpp'ar made a Merry-Go-Round machine for Claudia and Soren to play in before Viren trapped him in a magical coin. Prior to being trapped, Kpp'ar also kidnapped and imprisoned the Stone Giant Kruha (they look like giant Earthblood-like giant trolls) who guarded a map to the realm of the unicorns. Only a person who is pure of heart can see and read the map. For the unpure, like Viren, they can only see a blank paper. In the story, Claudia frees Kruha and the giant asks Claudia, "Find me again someday Claudia. In a place less dark." Sometime later, Claudia manages to read the map to the realm of the unicorns.
The story reveals Claudia used the map to reach the realm of the unicorns which is likely somewhere near Katolis. When she arrived, the unicorns likely welcomed Claudia and gave her one of their horns as a gift. Unicorns cannot be easily captured because they are very powerful in their use of Star Primal Magic.
It is likely in The Dragon Prince Season 6, Terry will take Claudia to the Stone Giants for medical assistance after Rayla sliced off Claudia's leg in a duel. From there, Rayla reunites with Kruha but the giant will be saddened by how dark Claudia became.
Sounds like a good story (and plotline for season 6) to me
One thing I'm confused about with fin being able to drown, isn't he a water being? Connected with the water archanum?
That is quite true, I don't think he should be able to drown, but getting eaten by a Leviathan ...might be a different story
Is no one going to talk about how rushed finding arevous prison was and just overall uneventful it was
Yeaaa that was genuinely disappointing. Such weird priorities they set.
I kinda liked Finnergrin because he's another reminder that elves are capable of evil,in spite of what some people might think
I do agree that he could have been done better and the seasons need more than 9 episodes to explore what the writing team probably wants to explore. Also, I think someone else said it first but I think the worldbuilding needs a lot of improvement. A WHOLE lot of improvement
I'm glad you like the character! I do too, don't get me wrong, I just don't like the way he was handled ...in the story, which is sad. I really hope they blow us away with the world building in S6. Better late than never.
rayla was looking for viren in season 4
in season 5 they explain that so rayla has the coin of the trip that she was looking for viren so she has already been there that's also the reason she knows how to call the boat with the man or woman and the place
Right, but that doesn't work writing wise. Imagine watching the show without any outside input, things would feel really random. Like, yes, they said she looked for Viren, so you can "assume" she must've gone to the port, must've gotten the coin somehow and all that, but that's just lazy and doesn't explain anything rather than just create a solution to their problem with no real explained reason. Like imagine if Rayla just randomly started doing Star Magic ...you could say "oh well you can assume she learned that in her time away", but it doesn't make it seem less random.
6:28 I feel this also happens earlier with the gang trying to reach the sea arch mage, and theres a pool of water. Ezran wonders whether this is the entrance to the mages home, and I'm automatically thinking several things:
1. Is it a tunnel of water that leads to the mage, and if not there, where?
2. Is it short enough for the protagonists to reach without dying?
And, 3. How will they get through without drowning(eg maybe magic)?
But then ezran(THE KING OF KATALIS!) just swims through first, and without waiting to see if he's ok the rest just follow him.
The inside of the water tunnel literally never gets shown, and when they all come out the other side in another room(in an undisclosed location) everyones just like 'we're here!', and I'm left so confused. None of the obvious questions above are asked and everything just turns out fine.
Like ik its a tiny moment but its just so badly portrayed
Totally agree with this video. I remember being incredibly disappointed to see how easily the group put the fate of the world on the line to save a couple little pets. They BARELY got out of the mess, and easily could have lost everything.
The group's ship was destroyed, they were all captured, (kinda) tortured, and Rayla was about 1 second from dying when Callum saved her.
The only reason the group BARELY made it out was because Soren's last ditch effort to convince his enemy he doesn't deserve to be treated poorly. Like, seriously?! Is that going to be what stops Aaravos?
This whole thing made me completely loose faith and investment in the enitre crew. It shows they need to rely on pure luck to barely make it out alive, which is frustrating. The first few seasons were so much more fun
The Kipu-Men of the Tidal Tribes/Costal Clan’s/Fishing Factions regularly visit the Sea of the Cast Out, and huge Eels like the one Finnegrin was eaten by, the Kipu-Men love to feast on, and imagine their shock when they open one up and see Finnegrin inside.
Here are some basics on the Kipu-Men: They are from 1ft 11in to 2ft tall, the men of their race have prominent Squared or Wide Rectangular noses, and they are generally quite friendly.
They would Find Finnegrin, help him recover, and then they will learn about him, and teach him on how to be a Kind and Respectable person.
Haha this would be kinda cool actually. I really like the idea of Finnegrin and I hope that if they do bring him back, they work out how to make him ...work
exactely! I found your analysis very grounded! I personally dind't care about most of the characters and storylines in this season, and felt like not engaging at all, even boring.. I would have expected Aaravos to act more, or to be set free at the end..and no..the "goos ones" always wins. I found the Finnegrin part good just because is the only moment where they are really in danger, but still not convincing cause at the end it's just solved without tangible conseguences. I found the Viren-Claudia storyline the only interesting one, but not satisfing at the end. I would have expected Claudia to meet with Viren on the beach after her defeat, and i was eager to watch them talk after Viren choise to die. I understand this wouldn't have work with a super-villain Claudia in the next season..but is not explained why Viren is no longer there, and personally i was very into their relationship, which was the only one about i personally cared in the season, and i will be very disappointed if Viren dies without any last confrontation with her.
Thank you so much! I'm glad you enjoyed, I really hope we get more actual confrontation in this next season too!
Yeaaa they definitely could've done that story better
Yup, I guess we have to see if they learn for Season 6
I loved his character!! XD he was so amazing
I like his character too, just not the way they put him in the story. I kinda wish they gave it a second chance.
ok you find it strange that callum can immediately cast ocean spells but he looked up everything about ocean magic at the beginning so I think it makes sense that he already knew something and with the spell that they can breathe underwater he looks it up
Yeaaa it does kinda make sense, but also it feels weird. Like I already knew that theoretically it could be explained with him having read up on things, but it doesn't have the same effect as having seen him see and then use the Aspiro Spell, for then it result with him being able to do it alone. Like that alone carried so much weight, and they tried to emulate the result without the buildup...
in the next episode you see that he makes other people freeze their blood and wants to give rayla to that strange fish
That was actually really cool to show how ruthless Finnegrin is, and I think that did sort of work, but I think by that point I thought it was just so difficult to take him seriously personally
He was my third favourite character of season 5 just behind viren and of course Aaravos is my favourite
I'm really happy you enjoyed him a character! Honestly I really liked the concept of him as well! I liked how he was able to also do spells, sadly though he just wasn't well done in my opinion. I was really excited for him too
I think the Finnegrin arc should be cut from s5.
The first problem is that multiple characters have to be ruined to get to the confrontation. Zubeia needs to be wounded so that our main group need a boat. This is indirectly because of Callum. He decided to stay longer at the library, even if he knew of the danger. Callum and Rayla had previously a bad encounter with one of these corrupted beasts. So Callum should know about the danger. That Zubeia gets bitten in a hamfisted way, I can overlook it. But the second character that gets ruined is Ezran. They have established that Aaravos is this huge threat and that our main group has to reach the prison asap. But suddenly Ezran has time to steal something from a dangerous pirate. In both cases the main group got punished, because of the stupidity of the group. The problem is that it feels justified and that they got in trouble.
The second problem is that scumport and finnegrin don't add much to the story and the world. They are pirates, but who are they raiding? They were never mentioned in s1-4. The human kingdoms? Well Viren didn't mention them in his s2 speech. Xadia seems also completely unhabitated. The villain group traveled a whole river by boat without encountering a single elven village. Scumport doesn't make sense.
I think the finnegrin arc is an argument why more episodes won't fix the problems of this show. I mean we don't need that pay off from the set up that Bait is used as a bait for fishing. Furthermore Callum could have learned the ocean arcanum in a different way. Instead of Finnegrin we could give a proper battle between our heroes and Claudias group.
Exactly how I feel about it too. It felt so unnecessary, but worse yet, it actively made the plot need the characters to make out of character decisions and actions, leading to a Waterfall effect. I loved how tight the writing was originally, and how everything seemed to make sense within the world that was created, and everything characters did felt real and deserved and aligned with who they are. I really hope they manage to capture that in S6 again.
But you're right, no extra amount of episodes would have solved the inherent problem of how that while story was introduced and how it played out.
the ting that i didnt lik was how esey they surender
and then how easy tey ware defeted and remember when callum punch the captan what stop him to punch him whit lighting as he did in Luaurea
x
I agree with most of your toughts, just a couple of rakes on my mind, first is that while there are leviathans, i think he wants bait for the rarest and mor valuable kind of the species, like tuna for example, there's the yellowfin that we all know and is cheap, and there is the red tail that can be worth 50k+ for 1 of them, same type diferent value, i think that is the take with the leviathans, it is just the common term for the beast, and with Soren, he was always like that, serious when it needs to be, but still a dork, i see him like kronk, one thing i notice is that for Callum to finally access the ocean arcanum he needed to be tainted with dark magic first, as well when he understood sky arcanum, so maybe theres a correlation.
Oooh I really like the correlation with Dark magic and him understanding arcanums! I see the point to leviathan though, that does make more sense, but I guess we still kinda have to assume that, which isn't great
Actually Finnegrin using Blood Freezing out of nowhere is one of the things that DOES work about him. At first, people would assume he's a typical scumbag. Sure, he's in charge and talks a big game but he's not particularly menacing so the audience wouldn't really take him seriously. If anything, they'd assume that Deadwood AKA Elmer was a bigger threat. Then Finnegrin suddenly whips out a spell that nobody else in the show has ever used and proves that he's not a guy you should fuck with unless you're fortune enough to have no blood. Keeping that under wraps until Rayla freed herself and was ready to kick some ass was actually a very good writing decision because it lulled the audience into a false sense of security.
maybe the reason villads showed the little beets was because he sees that ezran likes glow toads and therefore wants to raise the price one for three glow toads
I guess? But that's not really trade.. like you wouldn't give someone 30$ for 10$ ..it doesn't really fit his character either to make trades like that
I know it doesn't make a difference, but just wanted to point out.
Finnegrin said that if he was ever CAUGHT a mile off shore, not exactly that he couldn't go a mile off.
Trueeee, but also, I don't really get the feeling from how scared he seems, that he also WAS out further ...at least not often. But yea, as you said, it doesn't really make a difference but you're right!
O.k first with Rayla having the coin and calling for the boat carrier its obvious that she learned about this place during her search Viren and in her search she learned about the boat ride from to scum port and how to get there. Its not some big jump in logic for her to know about this place. Also having explore here off screen isn't a poor writing choice since we are learning about this port now through Rayla so its not some big leap in logic to understand that she been here before.
second. The place being rude to strangers do's present the idea that this place is a dark back stabbing place and just because we meet a few friendly faces here doesn't automatically take away from that fact
third The stakes are clear there here to get a boat and hed to "The sea of the Outcast" to prevent Aaravos from getting free and clear goal. And No they didn't get a boat offscreen after they met up with Captain Pete he offered them a ride to the sea in the episode
Four Finnegrin showing his Glowtoads was him offering to trade Bait an Older Glowtoad for a younger one. He's a deal maker and he was willing to make an offer for them. Also saving the Baitlings felt fine because the crew now had a boat, also Ezran saving the baitlings makes sense for his character because he is animal lover and wants to protect everyone.
Fifth. The Leviathan catch is such minor detail its not some big immersion breaking information. Heck who's to say that isn't a rare Leviathan that Finnegrin caught
Six. Just because we didn't see Finnegrin boat sink doesn't mean we can tell that he has a problem with Freedom or he doesn't miss his former Crab. We get this by the way his character acts. From him wanting to protect his Hermit crabs showing us how he values his crab, to him treating Elmer like he is nothing, to going after the group for stealing his baitlings, On top of that we see how much he tortures Callum, that he was willing to cut off the gang's hands and the fact he froze Raylla's blood. His actions "Show us his character". While a flash back would of been nice I think we got enough information based on how acts. His Internal conflict isn't that he has nothing but the fact he doesn't like to not be in control.
seven, The Tone was Fine for what they were doing. Just because the ferry man was dark and spooky doesn't mean a few jokes couldn't be cracked here. When they made it to Scum port there was still a sense of Danger with how the people acted in this port specifically Finnegrin. Also they knew it was bad thing to steal from him that's why try their best to be as discrete about it. As for the whole torture scene its not completely out of place compared many other Dark scenes in the dragon prince so its not so out of place not care.In fact I think a lot of people would agree that this is one of best moments in the series.Speaking of dark moments the whole freezing of her blood is honestly
Eight with the hole Elmer situation I think its fine enough because we see the constant neglect he get's from Finnegrin. We know how Dangerous Finnegrin is to the rest of his crew. So its not a huge leap in logic to understand what his situation is like and to sympathize with him.As for Soren I was honestly fine with him not having much to do since there was a lot this season so him having this moment with Elmer was fine
Nine Callum learns the Ocean Arcanum by simply letting go throughout the episode he tries so hard be in control same with Finnegrin its only when he realized Finnegrins desire for control accepts thing as they are its the same thing he struggled with Rayla when she left him
Hey, I'm really happy that you put so much effort into giving feedback! I don't necessarily agree with all of it, but that's ok. You clearly enjoyed this part a lot more, and it made sense to you, and that is the point in the end. I hope you understand that I still really like the show, and I do just want the best for it, and even though you clearly disagree, quite a few people agree, so I would say that some of it at least didn't work the way they wanted to. I'm glad it did for you though, and I just hope they manage to pull all the rest of us back with the next Seasons!
@@TheGlowingHay Hey I just wanted to give my outlook of the story.While sure I think some part of the narrative could of been improved I still enjoy none the less. However I can still see where your coming from
I really hope tdp see some of your videos, the show just has not felt the same since season 3 and they definitely need some help. I didn't completely hate this season, but it's just not the same show anymore. Nothing seems to be taken seriously and there are so many missed opportunities. Really the whole problem started with season 4 when they decided to fast forward 2 years. Suddenly we're just being told about all these changes without them showing us anything. I mean if you're gonna fast forward at least do some flash backs to show what happened to explain what's happening. Anyways I guess it could've been worse, but you can just tell they're not putting in the same amount of effort. The last episode was definitely the best, but that part at the end with the mushroom mage, just why? Again just lots of random parts that didn't make sense, and so many missed opportunities. I just hope they don't keep making the same mistakes.
Thank you so much for that! I agree that it feels very different, and I hope they manage to figure it out for the next Seasons.. they want to make it darker and more mature, but haven't quite managed to convey that yet
Darker and more mature is definitely a good direction to be heading in, but honestly I feel like it was more mature in seasons 1-3 They need to start backing off on some of the humor and just make it more serious, otherwise it's just not gonna feel right. Although Terry's re-leaving joke was amazing lol.
I didn't personally have the same issue you did with the serious moments feeling out of place. I thought season 5 did a much better job striking a balance between the humor and the darker content than season 4 did, although there were certainly instances I thought worked better than others.
That said, I agree that Finnegrin as a character is pretty weak. His motivations don't feel particularly genuine or believable based on the short time we have with him, and I think the fact that they kill him off right at the end of episode 8 signifies his lack of importance to the overall narrative. It seems like the only reason he exists is to push Callum to his limits so that he not only uses dark magic, but awakens his connection to the Ocean arcanum. And while those things ARE important, I think they could have found a way to tie this in with the overall plot rather than creating an entire detour/side story just to put Callum through this big character moment. Especially when there are SOOO many other plot threads in the overarching story that still need to be explored.
It's hard to even argue that Finnegrin is valuable for world-building, because I don't think he really is. I don't feel like I learned anything about the Tidebound Elves specifically (such as their culture) from Finnegrin or from Scumport. In that area, even season 4, I think, did a better job giving me an idea of what to expect from the Earthblood Elves.
As an added issue I have, I hate that this conflict is kicked off by the group stealing glow toads. I'm not saying I don't think the glow toads' lives mattered, and I definitely think making a move like that is in EZRAN'S nature. But why the heck did no one bother to ask what they were stealing from Finnegrin before putting their lives at risk? Isn't Rayla supposed to know Scumport and be familiar with Finnegrin? Wouldn't she be concerned about the group making such a reckless decision when they all have so much at stake? That made no sense to me whatsoever. Honestly, they could have fixed that plotline and tightened it up so much simply by having Finnegrin find out Callum is a mage another way and then decide to pursue the group for that reason.
I guess we needed more cute animal friends for the kids though lol (not that I don't like cute animals, but come on, we don't need that many). Which, I'm not even sure why, since Netflix just changed the series' age rating thanks to all the heavy content.
the place is dark and scary but i already know people are lying in that place so maybe it wasn't a rare fish but just something else and yes i know i'm not very clear with the names
I'm just not going to look up all the names
No all good, there are a lot of names here ..which shows how big this created world is, but yea if that's the case, then they again don't do enough to actually explain that to make it clear. So if still doesn't really work.
It's possible that the "leviathan meat" was a scam like how one of the merchants was selling "essential oils". But it I agree it wasn't explained compeently just like most things in the show.
I think the story would've benefitted from spending more time at scumport to flesh things out
I think all of the ideas are great and overall the execution was better than the previous season, but it still isnt perfect
Yes I 100% agree. I hope they learn from this though.
Soren is my big sore spot. He's reduced to comedic relief whenever he isn't directly needed, and is only ever NOT that when Plot Demands It. He's such a missed opportunity - I've talked with one of my friends at length about it, how Soren could have been allowed to be comedic now and again, while ALSO having a very valuable, regularly referenced talent in things like fighting, tactics, and environmental observation. He's the HEAD OF THE CROWNSGUARD and 9 times out of 10 he's acting like an idiot and achieving little of value. (at least to my recollection)
Soren rarely EVER gets to show off the talent he clearly has (HEAD!!! CROWNSGUARD!!!) and it just upsets me. He could easily be the martial counterpart to Callum, mastering all these fun ways of physical combat (or teaching the REST of the group fun ways of physical combat!), or being the tactical genius of the group in between innocently not understanding how life actually works outside the castle when his rank means NOTHING to people, but no. Instead we get 'idiot who sometimes does something useful'.
Absolutely! I loved how they managed Sorens character originally ...hence my channel pfp, but it seems they didn't think much further than him switching sides. Such a wasted potential too... I'm currently working on a character analysis of Terry, since I think just his entire character is a miss, but Soren was also high on my list of characters I wanted to talk about. Glad to see I wasn't the only one though!
Finnegrin worked well enough for me, but I agree with your points. His quick end was disappointing and Soren's big moment felt too easy. Just get beaten without defending yourself at all and the evil henchman, who we know nothing about, suddenly becomes a friend. Power of friendship I guess.
This season had multiple awkward moments which were seemingly meant to specifically hammer home the point that things are serious, not like during last season.
Among the awkwardness and little explained, conveniently solved subplots, there was only one moment that completely took me out of it. Amaya's sacrifice was just stupid. Nothing explained why our big and powerful archdragon suddenly couldn't help anymore, or even Callum with his magic.
Also, why are the only corrupted creatures in the Sunfire Elf Capitol hordes of banthers? I understand budget constraints, but this is a weird choice and doesn't make sense.
Listen it was the dark magic spell didn't you notice how every time he used THAT exact spell poof new arcanum unlocked
Honestly... there's weirdly something to this. Just a coincidence? ....maybeeee?
Yeah, I absolutely agree, nothing in this season seems to have an actual impact. I know what the show is trying to make me feel, but it doesn't work.
During this episode I was asking myself "is that really necessary?", like Ezran insisting on stealing the baitlings. Just, can we please move on to finding Aaravos' prison, please?
Finnegrin could be this cool, suave type of character but honestly he lacks charisma. I cannot take him seriously and because of that his failure is just weak. Like, I know he's going to fail, because heroes have indestructible plot armour, but I also know that, say Voldemort is going to fail, but he is still a scary villain. Also I think Finnegrin dies is quite pathetic way, which could work if they set him up better, as this prud person, but he's just humiliated in the end.
Also, another thing about Finnegrin. He uses magic in quite brutal way, right. But before that we spend so much time focusing on dark magic being the worst. But here, obviously we can see that elemental magic can be used in quite brutal manner. You know, intent matters and such. Feeling of being in control being more addictive than the type of magic itself. I'm bringing it up cause I don't know if the show is aware of that, since they are focusing on dark magic soo much.
Also the thing about Scumport. Was I hallucinating that they were humans there alongside elves? Like, we focus so much on humans vs elves in previous seasons and suddenly there is this place where they just like coexist? Like, seriously, was I seeing things? xd
I agree so much with this! Also, about Scumport, I thought the same thing. I also feel like the elf designs got so uninspired, that they look so similar to humans, they might as well be... I feel like they forgot Xadia was supposed to be this mysterious and new land for humans.
I really find the Finnergrin plot was really unnecessary. I feel it could have been avoided and have the team go straight to the sea of the castout. Episodes 7,8 were wasted without team zym working towards anything that is related to Aaravos. Really the whole plot of ep 9 could have been shifted to ep 7 so that there could have been more work done. it feels like the Finnegrin Arc was "filler'. In fact, s5 had better pacing for the sunfire elf civil war plot than the main plot. Because they spent so much time on the finnegrin plot, the final confrontation with team Claudia felt very rush. I feel the character development for callum, like rayla being tortured and etc, could have actually been done with the Claudia confrontation making it more interesting. Because Claudia fails to get the prison but she would still try to take it forcefully and leverage off team zym. it would have gotten similar outcomes but will move the main plot faster.
I completely agree! I realise they wanted to add some ocean magic, to show us new elves and what they can do ...but this was NOT it. I really did like the Sunfire Elf story line as well, it kinda didn't feel as ...real as the previous season, but still much more grounded and like there was actually something on the line... it's never good when you're more worried about a subplot than the actual main characters...
This was a really interesting video and well edited, too. I hope you make more of these analyses. I liked how you emphasised that the story should 'make people care,' aside from the plot making sense.
Now, I personally enjoyed this mini-arc, but I agree that the plot holes really took away from the impact of it all. I thought that Finnegrin's conflict with the arch dragon wasn't necessary - he's the kind of villain who doesn't need a deeper motive, I feel. There's also the fact that the leviathan didn't eat Soren so... does he just eat elves? It is quite disappointing that we didn't spend any time learning about the water elf culture. They don't even live in the ocean. (Btw, I think Rayla though Viren might have been hiding in Scumport, because people don't seem to care about dark magic there).
Anyway, I still really liked Finnergrin. I thought his design and his ship were really cool. He was established as a threat and he proved to be one in episode 8. He also forced Callum into doing dark magic, which will likely be important next season. However, I also thought that him learning ocean magic was pretty out of nowhere. As for Soren, I wish he had more moments to shine, but I still appreciate that it was thanks to him that they defeated Finnegrin. I just needed some backstory for Deadwood; since I didn't know why he was so loyal to Finnegrin, I didn't really care for him.
Thank you so much for that! I completely understand liking the character tbh, I still do too, which might be weird after that while video, but he still was kinda just such a cool concept, even if he could have been done better...
I am planning on definitely making more analysis videos!
Finnergrind act more like a disposable plot device than being a real threat. His design was cool but he's an unnecessary character or so I say, the whole pirate arc is unnecessary and forgettable. Frankly, the short conversation between Zubeia and her dead husband is much more memorable, touching and did a much better job in building character development than the whole pirate arc could have done.
@@NguyenTran-mf9gj I understand why he might have felt like a plot device, but I still think it was interesting to see that some elves might want to kill the arch dragons, and not shy away from dark magic. Even though Finnegrin was defeated, I think this confrontation had an impact on Callum's character. This time, using dark magic had none of those terrible side effects on Callum, which might make him more willing to use it in the future. It's these consequences on the heroes, these small victories, that make me like a villain more. But we'll see if this is proven true in season 6.
why it looks so scary but isn't it's actually just a trading place aleen there is a lot of lying and not being fair in that place i don't mind that i found season 4 worse
Yea Season 4 wasn't it either, but to say "it's just a trading place" is a bit reductive to what they tried to build up with it. The fact that they didn't manage to actually pull it off means though that it might as well have just been a random trading place... but then they shouldn't have tried to make it something else imo
Did they change the writing team? Season 1-3 had much better story. The animation is not THAT good to afford bad writing...
Very true.. I like how they keep making the characters more expressive, but what I thought was special about the show was its writing which was shown with choppy animation. ...now we have the reverse, and it doesn't work, so I hope they get back to where they were before
For me Finigrain didn't work because he's a 1700s pirate in a 1100s medieval setting.
Yeaaaaa that's true as well ..but like, fantasy things yk
I don't think it's controversial any more to have "unpopular" opinions. Everyone's been doing it for so many years on youtube, I'd say the real novelty would be for someone to make a video expressing the mainstream opinion. Finnegrin was a very well crafted character and very well received by the fans so obviously youtube reviewers would be negative about him. I'd be shocked by the opposite.
Ah yea no I get your point. It is sad that a lot of opinions seem to be shown just for interaction, and I'm sorry if you felt like I fall into that as well. I understand where you come from. I just genuinely had a hard time with how the character and his story was written. Like I was just watching the show, thinking "man I really want to like this character ..but why do they do this..."
I hope my points can stand outside of the general "youtuber makes video that covers controversial topic", but yeaa i see how it falls i to that.
A lot of connections were made off screen
Yea definitely! ..sadly that doesn't quite work
A lot of potential of Finnegrin has gone to waste, but thats just my slice of the cake. Carrot cake.
Gotta love the carrot cake ...I'll have your slice too
There are a lot of characters in this series have potentials but being set aside. In this season alone, Domina Profundis is the definition of wasting potential when she doesn't even have more than 2 minute of screen time in a episode that named after her 😢
Smort Longpocket
👇🏻
You're right about a few things and I think seasons 1-3 are better
Thank you! I completely agree! S1-3 was really something else, and I feel like they need to get back to that place..
Bro, I thought you died
Hey, so sorry about that🙁
I'm ok, just took some time for me to feel in a place where I could work on stuff again. I wish I could've just continued making videos, but I wasn't quite there yet mentally... thanks for coming back though! Means a lot!
means a lot for all of us that you came back :D, you can take as many breaks as you wish, and ,,I always come back"
and your other fans will come back too, if you need a break, just take it, everybody sometimes needs a break
I'm sorry but I have to disagree with your analysis. I promise I watched the whole thing.
No, all good! I'm happy to hear criticism, and my opinion isn't fact! Thank you for watching the whole thing though! Would be interested to hear your thoughts
@@TheGlowingHay I'm fascinated by Finnegrin and how he and Callum mirror each other. He tries to convince Callum that he want's freedom and in order to acquire that freedom he needs to kill Domina Profundis while calling himself fearsome as a means of conveying how helpless and frustrated he feels , in an attempt to control Callum. In this attempt to control Callum, Callum is suddenly faces with the Freedom vs Control fight. Callum has always thought of himself free from dark magic, and this is the first time he realizes that's not true. Callum finally submits and surrenders control, thereby understanding the ocean, mirroring Finnegrin to fights for control and meets his end.
I had some other thoughts but this is already getting long enough. :) Thanks for listening.
@@amandawade7803I think it would be much better that they had made Domina Profundis a companion of the gang on their journey to stop Aaravos.
Domina is the queen of the sea, she have connection with Aaravos and she could share some secrets/stories about Aaravos that the gang needed. Why they wasted that opportunity and create this disposable pirate captain who gonna die anyway is beyond me. Sometime, using the character you already have is the best choice instead of creating a new one that is much more forgettable and disposabale.
@@NguyenTran-mf9gj I think using a dragon we met for 5 seconds would be boring. She has no emotional connection to the group, and if the archdragons helped with everything, everything would be too easy with no character development. It would be no different if the eagles flew the fellowship to Mordor in LOTR. This interaction with Finnegrin was far more interesting because it unlocks a serious dilemma for Callum, that ended up being good since he now has ocean magic, but also bad since he used dark magic and could have terrible consequences later.
@@amandawade7803 I mean they could have find onther way for her to be involved deep into the story since this season named "Book Five: OCEAN". Domina being the queen of the sea and even have 1 episode named after her but she only have live 2 minutes of screen times doesn't seem fair at all. The fact that she have a very gorgeous design and tempting voice, 2 minutes of screen times is such a huge waste potential.
She could have acted as an anti hero, an uncooperative companion since she doesn't seem to trust human and only travel with them to get rid of Aaravos.
I mean why they didn't make Domina Profundis a new companion for the gang? She could have played a bigger and more important role in this season rather than as a plot device. Considering the title of this season is "Book Five: OCEAN", which supposed to be a main theater for a sea dragon like Domina since she appeared in the cover of this season. Like come on, she's the boss of the ocean and the gang's ally is the Dragon Queen herself should be more than enough to convince Domina to join the journey and protect them from the dangers of the sea. And Finnergrin's biggest problem involved with Domina too. I still don't understand why they have to create more unnecessary and uninteresting characters like Finnergrin when they already had Domina Profundis, who have connections and also more secrets/stories to share about Aaravos. What a waste for such a gorgeous and interesting character 😮💨
I completely agree! Especially since the beginning sets up Domina to be very important, I thought she was going to be a main threat or just generally very important, the same way Rex Igneous was supposed to be
That's one of several reasons why Season 4 is better than Season 5. The writers actually built up to Rex Igneous and it paid off big time when we met him. Not only was his confrontation with Zubeia as perfect display of both visual storytelling and less is more - so much was said in the scene without a single line of dialogue - but I got a strong sense of who Rex was outside of simply being an Archdragon.
Domina Profundus just showed up for a cameo and was never seen again. We barely know anything about her. And what a waste of Jennifer Hale. She's a big name in the voice acting community and she was only given 2 lines.