A water pipe diameter mistake is made at Green Pastures Farm!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 พ.ย. 2024
- A water pipe diameter mistake is made at Green Pastures Farm! This was a hard lesson to learn that cost money and extra labor to fix. Wisdom well learned, always get the best information you can from the right people before proceeding forward. The good news is that the larger diameter pipe fixed our problem! We have tremendous water pressure now.
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EXACTLY what we need. 1. You aren't perfect. 2. You learn from your mistakes 3. you share with us what you've learned. 4. Our thoughts and prayers go out to Johnny. thank you again for all you do fur us noobs out here working at creating a living from the land!
Gregg give Johnny everybody's condolences for the passing of his wife❤🙏
Takes a big man. Thanks for putting our interests first.
Prayers for Johnny!
My condolences to Johnny I know what he is going through having lost my husband this year! I pray God comforts him as He has me!
My condolences and prayers to Johnny and his family in their time of loss.
You just saved me a BIG HEADACHE. I ordered 3/4 HDPE and all the fittings and was about to start a 1000ft lay. Had no idea about friction loss over these long runs.
So now I have to return this and get 1 1/4 line… $ loss but better than unburying all that line.
I must have totally missed talk about pipe diameter and length of run in your water system video, and me not being a plumber had no idea about friction loss :(
I think I’m actually going to keep this 3/4 inch and use it for shorter lines that come off my main line in the woods. Got 10 acres that I want to run pigs in, and the 3/4 inch should work since it’s only 200ft coming off the main 1.5 inch line.
The 3/4 on your branch lines should be just fine . As the gpm need and shorter distance will not be overcome by the friction loss.
Just wanted to point a few things out, first, in 3/4" pipe at 1.5 gmp you will only lose .7 psi per 100' of pipe. So at 600' you would lose about 4 psi at 1.5 gmp of flow. Secondly the 3/4 " meter actually is the main restriction in this equation as it actually has a internal port of approximately 5/8 " and any increase in pipe size after that will only reduce laminar flow resistance. I would have recommended a 1" pex line for this job as the pex is a much better quality pipe than pvc and way fewer joints to possible leak in the future. I believe if you carefully inspect the 3/4 " line that you removed you will find either a kink or debris that had caused an obstruction at the coupling.
1.5 GPM is extremely low flow. Average residential water flow is between 6-12 GPM. At 8 GPM, 3/4” pex drops 13.89 PSI per 100’ feet (not accounting for any additional restrictions). A 600’ perfectly straight, level run, with no couplings would lose 83.34 PSI over a 600’ run.
Buddy of mine does this for a living. He had the same thing happen to him.... Luckily he found a rock in the line. either came from the meter, joint construction, or found its way in there on the sales yard. Another buddy that runs heavy equipment told me to AWLAYS flush out lines when you have a hydraulic line made. Never know what kind of debris may have found its way in there.
What would you recommend for 2000' with a water pressure of 42psi?
I wouldn't bury any brass fittings personally. Philmac plastic compression fittings all the way. But then again our soils are pretty acidic so you results will vary. On a 1" meter I'll usually upsize the pipe to 1.5" because its the same price as 1.25" but IMO 1.25" will work fine too. You probably would have been okay to use 1" poly rolled pipe but once bitten twice shy. Those compression fittings effective downsize your pipe from 3/4 to 5/8ths and having that in the middle of the line could definitely have had an effect.
I've solved a lot of low pressure problems on all 3/4" sprinkler systems by necking down to 1/2" on the last couple heads. My theory on why this works is you are sacrificing flow you don't need for pressure you need. The 3/4" offers more flow, but if you've dropped pressure by using up your margins, heads won't spray right.
In your case a 300' roll of 1" then necked down to a 300' roll of 3/4" at the hydrant in the middle could have solved your pressure problem. But I'm no engineer, just a guy that did miles of commercial irrigation and now works for broke farmers. So don't do what I say. Spend some extra bread and be sure its going to work.
Thanks for the video! I know when I was on the fire birade for work we usually use 1.5” hoses, but when running long distances we use 5” hoses then reduce it down to 3” or 1.5” hoses. The friction loss goes way up when using smaller diameter hose. You don’t want to lose pressure or flow when it comes to spraying fires. Sorry for your loss Johnny! I’m sure it’s hard and praying for comfort and healing!
We all hope Johnny is doing well.
Hi Greg thanks for the advice. Please put extra tightness on your next hug to Johny for me. Regards
Thoughts and prayers to Johnny.
That two inch will give you all kinds of flow! I ran that two inch a quarter mile, my neighbor ran one inch the same distance. He’d ask me to do his chores on occasion. I would turn his hydrant on and I could walk back to my house and fill two troughs the same size as his, walk back over and shut his off. Very sorry to hear about Johnny, man live every day like you’re going to lose someone. Thanks for the video, and congratulations on that thirdy point Buck…!
Thanks man!
Greg, sorry you had problems with the water. I ran 3/4 mile of schedule 40 with 3/4" pipe, per usda. I have 6 stock tanks, water to my cabin, + other faucets at barn ect. I had 90 psi at meter. I put on a regulator down to 50 psi. 15 years later, I have wonderful pressure. I even slow my water flow at the stock tanks down to 1/4 at the tanks. I'm burried down to 24" unless I hit rock. Im.on what the locals call hills, I call them mountains. I ran up at hills, and all the way back to middle of property. With legs to each pasture.
I ran 2 1" pex lines from my well house 300' to a building with no issue with pressure or volume. Have an 80gal pressure tank set to around 60psi.
Always glue pvc while primer is wet. Please re apply primer to final joints before gluing as per instructions on can.
If you don't use the stiffener, those pack fittings can blow apart. I replaced a bunch of them a couple of years ago that were blowing apart because of that.
I like the blue polyethylene pipe, but 3/4" for 600' just isn't big enough.
Also, if you ever have a leak on that line, the first place to look is that Sch 80 female adapter. Even using Sch 80, they can split from having metal pipe threaded into them. A banded coupling is a much better option.
We used the stiffeners on the fittings. Our new 2” pvc line is working great. Great pressure at every hydrant and the house.
I'd be calling that Company back and voicing my options and ask for money back. They're supposed to be professionals. Peace from WV
I backfill with 12 inches of sand and (I bed with 6 inches plus if there is rock in the bottom of the trench) and lightly hand tamp - then I put a yellow warning flag tape on top of the sand, you can buy the tape with locator coating but it is better to bury a wire from the meter to the house shut off that is above grade and easy to find, I wrap mine around the pipe as I go and screw each end in place. I put in T's in the line every 100 feet or less with a 12"-18" stub and cap - I guarantee that you will need those some day. While I have the ditch open, I think long and hard about adding one or two or more conduits for future needs - I prefer 1" electrical pipe but there are other choices also. Finally, if I can underground the electrical service, I do so - I hate overhead wires and the poles that do with them. Just me but that is what I do. By the way, we always snake the PVC pipe in the ditch to allow for movement from frost heave and pressure spikes. The water company sometimes will give you a larger meter without a monthly rate jump. Bigger is always better and here where we live, we put in pressure regulators, quality brass shut off valves at the start and finish of the line (and sometimes in the middle), and I major beef up the water meter enclosure. If all else fails, I put in a small electric booster pump at the meter and use one of those extra conduits to run power to the meter location and the other to run a control wire to the pump. I have also added an electric valve at the meter controlled from the point of use - you can buy a WiFi monitor now that watches for leaks and tells you your flow - as water goes up in cost, $1500 water bills an happen. Last resort if the line is prone to freezing is to add a 3/4" return line with a small circulation pump on a thermostatic switch. I push from the use location back to the meter, install a check valve if I have not been forced to a backflow device, and lately have been adding a brass sand filter right after the meter, the water company send lots of debris at time, look in you aerators in the house to see what is coming your way. See ay and thanks for a great post as always. Bob in Nevada
Read up on friction loss everyone.
Unbelievable, there are readily available tables that show pressure drip over distance and through fitting like elbows.
And you are right about lids closed on the glue and primer....don't ask me how I know!
And YRS schedule 80 !!!
Oh man, I’m so sorry. Not on the same level but l had a replacement hydraulic jack installed on my hauling truck and it was too smal. Wouldn’t even lift the bed empty! ☹️
Thanks for the video Greg. How come you didn't use hdpe pipe? We used hdpe for 3000+ft of stock water line. No joints and don't have to worry about freezing.
I’m sorry to hear about Johnny’s loss and the misinformation you were given when selecting your pipe.
We’d like to run HDPE pipe to a distant new pasture. Most of the run is slightly down grade, but there are some slight upgrades. How far have you been able to run 3/4” water lines? Thank you.
That’s interesting I’m pumping water through three-quarter black poly 1600 feet with a small 12 V DC well pump wouldnt give you enough pressure to run that house but it’s a really small pump definitely runs water for a pretty good size herd cattle up
Just goes to show the value of free advise.............!
Surprising that the water company only has 3/4” pipe coming in.
Curious if you have ever ran 600 ft. Of 3/4 in you cattle water operation. If so, how was the pressure at the end. Im thinking ther might have been a restriction in the pipe.
There must have been a restriction in the pipe I’m thinking. I have run 1200 feet of 3/4 above ground pipe and had okay pressure.
So they said dont run 3/4” line more than 300 ft? What about all the poly ran along pasture for waterers? We need to run about 800 ft of something in our pasture this spring, what can we get away with? Ground is ever so slightly elevated from source if any but pretty flat. Source is 60 psi.
Use 1" line
Put a tank with a decent volume on the end with a head on it . The use larger pipe at the end from the tank. The resistance of the pipe flow wouldn’t matter. You have a lot of blue pipe now . Make a poly tunnel.
Seems like the water company’s 3/4” pipe coming in is your problem. You have great “pressure” at the head but not enough “volume”. That 2” pipe might give you sufficient gains but won’t be what it should be with the restriction coming in.
If you had 2” coming in from the city then a 3/4” pipe ran off of it would have been fine. That’s most likely what the pipe manufacturer was thinking
I had a similar thing happen when we put our irrigation system in. I bought a bunch of PVC pipe and buried it in our pasture with a riser about every 100+ feet. We're using large irrigation guns that cover a radius of around 100 feet and put out 130 GPM at 80 PSI.
I told the guy where we bought the pipe from (they design and install irrigation systems) what the distance was and he told me 2 inch pipe would more than do it. As it turned out, it wasn't enough. The last sprinkler (which was at the end of about 350 feet of 2 inch pipe only sprayed out about 70 to 80 feet instead of the 100+ feet.
I had considered putting 3 inch pipe in for the entire run but decided to go with the salesman's recommendation after questioning him several times.
I ended up having to put in 2 more runs of pipe with additional sprinklers on each run. The ends of the first pipes and the second pipes were about 100 feet away. I dug up the end of the first pipes and tied each one into an end of the new pipe I put in making a loop. This fixed the problem, but it illustrated to me once more people who should know oftentimes don't.
The formulas in the description of this video (by Andrew Millison) should enable you to calculate the needed diameter better next time.
I also think that the siphon technique described near the end of the video has never been used on your farm. hth :)
th-cam.com/video/KCcmma96Oyc/w-d-xo.html
First.
Diameter is important.
Careful to not let little calves fall into the trench, get stuck, prey for coyotes
Water district guy should know better than that. Too much friction loss.
That dirt was powder dry and granulated. You are dry.!!
I would guess you're on rural water. And you say you have 80 psi at your meter. Myself I would install a pressure reducer. You only need 60psi at your meter. Anything higher can blow fitting loss plus damage fixtures. Check with your water supplier. Shalom