4 Reasons BASIC SWORD HILTS can be BETTER than COMPLEX Hilts in History or Fantasy?
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Why might people in history, fiction or fantasy choose a simple sword hilt INSTEAD of a complex more protective one?
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That Messer has an S hilt shown which is considered a complex even without the side Nagel.
A knuckle bow is a P or D shape & not an S as shown which is also a complex guard.
Flat complex guards with no or few side projection have use for storage & ease of carry unlike complex hilts that have many side projection like rings or loops.
Only reason I can see for a simple cross guard or no guard is the slight cost!
I have a question that I would love for you to talk about in a video. There have been many videos that suggest a fight between two armoured opponents has a good chance of ending up on the ground and finish with a dagger strike through the gaps. So, why not just start with a dagger? Then you don't need to drop your sword and switch to a dagger. What advantages and disadvantages might a dagger wielder have facing a sword or other weapon with a dagger if both are armored? I get the obvious (range), but if your not too worried about taking a hit on your armor anyway, take the hit and get that fatal strike between the gaps.
@@JasonTheRockBard Longer daggers that could be grasped with 2 hand in the manner of 1/2 swording were often used without ever using or drawing a sword.
The Swiss with the Swissdag for instance often chose not to wear a sword at all.
Daggers were more common place then swords!
Think that the simple hand hilt is good for the hours long battles that troops had to fight. The blade in those long fights dulls and chips and can become useless. But with a double edge sword with the simple hilt. You can just turn it around so you can use the other edge.
Complex hilts are more probable in the hands of officers, because they have a higher pay and status and have their sword aways drawn to point and command, so it's their primary weapon already. Soldiers and pioneers hilts are more utilitarian and simple, and consider wearing convenience, price and fast drawing much more.
Also came to mind, if you are wearing gauntlets, those complex hilts might get in the way.
Great video like always.
Exactly and big gauntlets will offer good hand protection for a longsword user against hand snipes, so at least against other swords they can have their hands more forward to extend the reach as with a complex hilt, and thus have a range advantage vs no gauntlets. Also more damage to unarmed strikes at grappling distance. With a complex hilt you have to hit with the sword hand and sword in hand to gain the bonus damage to a punch, with gauntlets and longsword you can strike with either fist and move the sword with the other hand at the same time, so the technique has more scenarios where it's possible and where is viable.
And would be rather redundant in that case.
Thinking from a fantasy/mythical perspective, another point would be that trolls, dragons or hags don't tend to try and fence with you. They'll just claw and bite your head/insides to bits. If the opposing force is more likely to be some unarmed creature, then hand protection is almost irrelevant. Maybe a possible point 5.
Maybe not to protect the hands but if there's a good number of humanoid creatures that mostly wrestle with claws and fangs weapons may oftenly have very agressive knuckle guards and pommels to hammer the enemy on close quarters.
@@Asterion608That doesn't make sense though. If you can wind up for a punch, you can 10000% just swing or stab with the sword.
@@Leo.0328I'd say it does, quite a few creatures will try to latch on you or pin you down, and then you got no room to use your sword properly anymore. It isn't much but it's better than bare hands.
@@Leo.0328Depends on the length of the critter's limbs tbh
If a warg goes for my hand, which is extra risky when fighting a pack, I'd rather have a good guard to protect my hand, especially if I'm not wearing gauntlets.
I had a remodeling company where it is 100% necessary to carry tool bags around the hips that often involved even wearing two different long tools such as hammers. Having to both carry and draw something with a complex shape at the "sheath" position would be pure torture. I frequently carried one hammer at my side and another on a loop at my backside. It was typical to be holding up the piece I was working on while needing to draw a hammer with one hand. In other words, similar to having a buckler already in one hand. Comfort and usability really are essential.
In one of the assassination attempts on Emperor Qin Shi Huang, the Emperor tried to draw his very long ceremonial sword and run away at the same time, never getting it completely out. The would-be assassin only had a dagger and was a bit of an amateur, so a sort of Benny Hill chase scene ensued, the Son of Heaven trying to get his sword out with this guy on his heels. I think a guard eventually arrived and saved him.
The nuns wearing lingerie would've provided a great distraction 🤣
I'm imagining that as done by the Shaw Brothers with the Benny Hill theme playing in the background LOL
My initial response to Matt's question as to, as a non-professional soldier, "why would I use a sword with a simple hilt, " it's what I have.
Even professional soldiers sometimes used swords with simple hilt too. Complex hilts will get in the way of armored gloves and gauntlets and can also get in the way of certain types of swordsmanship/techniques.
That just pushes the question one step back "why was a simple hilt MADE," which just goes back to the points made in the video.
@@gearandalthefirst7027 Easier to forge
@@EnderLord99 exactly. Probably also cheaper, faster to make, easier to transport in bulk . Basically logistics
Doesn't get stuck when you do a sneak and peek before you shoot and loot.
Another point to take into consideration is maintenance, a very complex or ornate sword/hilt would be a lot more time consuming to keep clean, rust free, etc... than a simpler design. Especially if it is something that you need to do on a daily or semi-daily basis. And in the same respect, a very complex hilt would be a lot more expensive and intricate to repair. Thanks for these vids Matt, I always love when you delve into the more intrinsic and mundane side of weaponry.
If you can actually access all of the areas in the first place.
Some of the designs I've seen though very pretty, do have spots which would appear to just be rust magnets. Cleaning them is not easy, it's challenging to impossible. At least without disassembling the piece in question.
Good point!
I've experienced this firsthand, my arming sword is much easier to care for than my complex-hilted sidesword.
One thing I never thought about till I actually held a sword was how careful you have to be about the crossguard impacting your wrist or forearm when cutting. You don't think about it as a kid swinging a stick, but an 8" bar of steel does not give a single fuck about your wrist if you misalign your grip. I imagine on a horse where you are using the sword far less for parrying it could be seen as beneficial to not have that piece of metal tangling you up that much more
And the 1796 Light Cavalry Sabre - as a famous example - enters the chat.
@@andyleighton6969 I see you are a man of culture as well
@@animalxINSTINCT89 That's debatable, and as for swords, I haven't fenced since school, a half century ago.
When I started out with swordfighting, that was a problem, but at this point it's not even something I think about. I just automatically move it so that it doesn't hit me in the wrist. The real downside in my experience is the inconvenience of it outside of fighting.
I take a shot every time Matt hits his light reflector
Seven times the first five minutes 😪
I was wondering how long his pyramid piñata is going to last.
Because I'm left-handed, and complex hilts are 95% of the times asymmetrical and designed for right-handers. 😆
More universally, I'd say simpler hilts are lighter and easier to wear, which can be an important factor as swords spend most of their time hanging from a belt. And of course, if the sword is mass-produced to equip an entire army, costs also become critical.
As for the ease of drawing, I guess the lenght of the blade plays a bigger role than the hilt design, unless the latter is a full basket or similar. I never had to draw a sword to defend myself from a sudden attack, but I don't really feel the difference in grabbing the grip of let's say an arming sword, a 1796 LC, or a Year XI if they're hanging from the correct side.
alot of simple hilts were around when you had a shield in the other hand. antiquity and iron age fighting pretty much assumed use of a shield
In a military context, yes. But swords were certainly also worn on a daily basis for defense. So they had to have a fighting method that had a quality that lowered the risk of your opponent cutting off your hand.
Not certainly, no. Carrying weapons around with you 24/7 wasn’t as much of a thing in places like Ancient Rome
15:28 If we're talking about economics, I recently saw a Polish saber from 1785. It had a plain flat metal disc on the front as a hand protection. Apparently, more weapons from that time had this solution. It looks strange, primitive and was certainly uncomfortable, but from the point of view of mass production for the military....
Can you share a (broken) link or at least the name of the site?
Hmmm... In terms of mass production that doesn't make sense because mass production makes things cheaper and easier, you don't need to start with something cheap and easy.
@@rikospostmodernlife Just write: First Polish regulation sabre Pattern 1785. The guy in the video speaks Polish, but you can turn on subtitles in other languages.
Simple hilts also weigh less. Note that I'm not talking about point of balance! Less mass in the hilt means that it can be moved around faster, such as from tierce or quarte to prime or quinte.
Plus ounces become pounds at the end of the day. And considering as a fantasy adventurer you're already carrying around your armor, a few rations and your cloak you're already over loaded. Because in most fantasy worlds you never know when you're going to be attacked on the road. By anything from orcs to hobgoblins, to Minotaur and ogres or the undead. So long as you are on the road you're going to eat, sleep, and shit in that armor. You won't take it off till you get to something fortified. That is simply the nature of the threat level in that environment.
One thing I like to remind myself of when thinking of basket hilted swords (at least in a Scottish highland context) is how they were being employed as a main battlefield weapon alongside the targe, drawn after discharging muskets and pistols, before closing with the enemy. Perhaps if they closed with the enemy with some other weapon in their hand first they would've chosen to use simpler hilts, easier to draw when needed. If you make another video about why you might chose a complex hilt over a simple hilt you could use this as a point if you'd like.
And they also had a sidearm that was very easy to get in hand, aka the dirk
And two things I hate . Hardly any of them carried swords other than clan chiefs as the were poor . And second , is when someone calls a Basket Hilt Broadsword or backsword a Claymore , which happens reasonably often . Does my head in lol .
@TheSavagederek it depends on the period by the mid 18th century the jacobins used quite a few broadswords,
@@paullytle1904 a basket hilt is not a Claymore . And the way the clan system worked the tenants were crofters and fishermen and weavers , they were pretty poor . Some would maybe have taken some weapons in Prestonpans and Falkirk , but they would have been from dead comrades or Government issue weapons .
And by the time of Culloden the Backsword was more the fashion . In earlier uprisings the Broadsword was more the trend . They would hold the Dirk alongside the targe and swing that across , then bring the sword crashing down on the enemy . I practiced medieval martial arts for a few years and was in the Alan Breck regiment of Highlanders and in Clan Ranald .
you left out four other points. 1 With an arming sword you can reverse the blade if the true edge is damaged or dulled and you don't have time to sharpen or repair. . 2. you can use it in your off hand in the case of injury or (as in my case) being left handed, some complex hilts are ambi but most are made for the right hand only and some with thumb rings can't really be used left handed well at all. 3. transport en mass, say you want to arm 100 men, and need to haul 100 swords 100 miles to the front, which do you think packs easier, lays flatter and thus less likely to be bent by the tons of other stuff you are also hauling on your wagon? 4. if you are wearing a steel gauntlet a complex hilt gets int he way and is superfluous as your hand is already protected.
Hi Matt, I practice "hema iaido" from time to time and I agree with you and I would like to add that I can give some reasons, to explain the success of hilts shapes in which hand protection is built in one piece, such as cup hilts, plain sabre hilts, plain smallsword hilts. When you go for the draw, you bring your hand to the grip and close the fingers at a given moment, for example: cup hilted rapier, you bring the hand to the grip and close the fingers when the web of the hand meets the cross guard; sabre, you close the fingers when your thumb meets the thumb rest or the hilt. Now, with a complex hilt made of bars, one of your fingers can slip between bars, while the hand is still open, and now your draw is messed up (if your finger isn't).
Hi Matt
Another thought, practicality is in the eye of the beholder. In the States, where many people EDC a handgun, there are proponents of every caliber from .380 ACP to 9mm to .45. There has never been one size fits all in defensive weapons.
I think this ties into the Katzbagler hilt design, the guard provides decent protection and the pommel assists with gripping and drawing.
Ease of grabbing if surprised/ suffering fog of war, cost, and weight/ balance.
Plus, they're generally shortish so that would aid in getting the blade out in time.
Also maintenance: removing rust from the inner curves of a swept-hilt is more of a pain than with a simple crossguard.
Something i've found in my training is simple hilts tend to be much easier to handle in gloves compared to complex hilts especially in thicker gloves. I tend to need to wear lighter gloves when using my backsword than when using an arming sword.
A gauntlet, particularly the big mitten style gauntlets of the late medieval period, would also be a consideration.
Just stopping by the comment section to tell you that your content is always amazing Matt. I really love it. This is a great video for nerds like me
In jurisdictions that allow effective self defense, easier to wear and employ weapons still appear to be much more popular than more capable weapons that are more of a hassle to wear and employ. One need not look to history to observe these considerations being made.
With the difference that swords and such were prestige items and a symbol of your rank. Modern self defense gear usually is not.
True, and history tells us Remington sold unbelievable boatloads of the little Remington Beale 5 shot .36, in comparison to the actually few "dragoon" and such .44s. Sheer convenience
Indeed. Just look how popular the basic AK is in Afghanistan. Cheap, easy to carry, and you don't need long range accuracy to deal with someone in the street.
@@ttaibe ok? people still have to wear them, there's an reason why rapiers were abandoned for smaller swords, since when your overly long sword keeps smacking into the floor, and other things, you start to consider how many times do you actually need to use it.
@@stefthorman8548 I suspect that it has more to do with order gradually increasing in society. When broadswords weren't needed anymore, ppl started wearing rapiers. When ppl were getting more "civilized" and the length of the weapon was less of an issue because for example duels and so on got more ritualized ppl switched to smallswords. At some point swords were no longer a sign of rank and ppl stopped wearing them.
I agree that practicality is a big factor. Especially if self defense is the only function. But so is "prestige". I am quite sure that if wearing some oversized somewhat clumsy sidearm was prestigious again, ppl would wear them.
i'd add as another point for choosing a simple hilt, but specifically one where the protrusion of the pommel and the guard go just far enough beyond the the protrusion of the gripping hand so that you can use the hilt to forcefully or suddenly brace the shield without squishing or pinching the back of your hand.
Which if you're in a fantasy world with monsters that are bigger and stronger than you are is kind of important. Trying to defelect an ogre's club with a one handed swept hilt and no shield. doesn't strike me as very practical considering how big and strong those things are. But, with a shield and sword combo you can deflect a lot of the force off to one side which gives you an opening.
Another thought for simple hilts is they are a lot easier to fall on. In physical combat of any scale things happen. As a soldier, traveling light means a lot when you’re carrying your own equipment, food, and shelter.
That dark age sword is GORGEOUS!!
How much hand protection do you need to be safe from a dragon?
The asbestos pavise hilt was invented for that specific situation.
It would be cool to do some experiments to see drawing speeds when cut off guard in various scenarios.
Could be a new contest on flight camp.
Over time, if all numbers are recorded you get a real cool statistic
Another reason is the need to wear heavy gloves/mittens, due to cold weather conditions.
Dam good point. I was thinking gauntlets but yes this applies.
The economy point reminds me of those simple dussacks that just have the tang bent forwards to form a simple knuckle bow.
Yep. wrap the handle well with leather to absorb the shock and you've got a decent weapon. Maybe not elegant, but, it will do the job.
My takeaway: It does not matter how fancy it is. It matters how quick you can whip it out!
I love the simplicity of the Chinese Jian.
Matt, I gotta say these thumbnails these past weeks or so have been really, really good!
What's your method? Do you have someone making them for you or have you just gotten better?
Excellent video, by the way!
My first thoughts were ease of carry and cost. The other two also make sense.
I've always loved the simplicity and minimalism of small hilts.
I like the crown basket hilt. I saw Sir Forester's swords in Bamburgh castle. His was basket hilts like the crown basket hilt.
What is the best distribution of weight for wearing a sword (while walking, riding, or sitting down)?
And by "distribution of weight" I mainly mean: where its center-of-mass is.
One could weight the scabbard a bit to compensate.
If the hilt is too heavy things get a bit tricky after a while 😅
@@Theduckwebcomics Yes that was my reason 5. A complex hilt is heavier, particularly historically when light weight materials weren't available. To counterbalance that the blade needs to be heavier, either broader or longer. That is an issue if the weapon is for civilian wear, especially if you go for the longer blade (be careful as you are turning round). Either way of increasing the weight gives you extra to carry and will be a pain by the end of a long day. Also a heavier weapon needs more robust, and in the case of a long blade, more elaborate harness to hold it at the correct angle for an easy and intuitive draw.
I think it's the same reason we don't all were the same clothes, taste and style preferences.
Just from a cosmetic view, I dont like basket hilts. Simple hilts just look cooler.
Exactly.
My understanding is that the Viking era swords were used with the hand above the shoulder rather than out front. If you hold your hand out in front away from your body it could be cut to ribbons. Also, the shield provided the protection and the blade of the sword was only “thrown” after winning the bind
By the way, I was thinking it would be interesting to hear your opinion on the difference in everyday use between a cross guard and a disk guard like that of a katana or a dao. What makes their design good for their purpose and what differences they bring when it comes to carrying and combat.
Cheers!! Have a great weekend :)
I was literally just talking to a friend about this exact topic, impeccable timing!
I had this idea as a subject I could've used to jump into HEMA TH-cam eventually...bless you, Matt, but also now I need to think of something more original.
One additional thought on complex hilt + shield; in Bolognese and Spanish use of sword and shield, more protection on the swordhand frees up the sword to not need to be brought together, usually we just keep the buckler extended and allow the sword to move freely around it. You give up those strong binding actions, but allows you to keep the buckler in the Right Angle or the shield in the most covered location, and then have much more dynamic sword movements.
Definitely less complex than normal sword and shield, thus easier to teach. In addition, the shield now never "gets in the way" of your sword. However, that lack of complexity does mean against someone else with a shield might have trained techniques you don't know how to respond to
It's so funny listening to the debate here and realizing people have been talking about the same stuff when it comes to carry weapons forever. "Well it's a better weapon!" "But will you actually carry one that size?"
That swept hilt Rapier is beautiful ❤️
Another consideration is that grip uses in many fighting styles are rather conservative, and can't be used efficiently with complex hilts. Some particular cases: in Japan during trend of westernization they adopted hilts with guards to traditional blades. It saved the life of the Russian last Tsar, as Japanese policies couldn't chop him properly with such hilt. Polish cavalry in early XX century used to remove side guards from Russian made sabers for more flexible use of the grip. Horse archers ( which are all Eastern Europe and Asia in the period of hilted swords) would have a nightmare drawing with something like that hanging on the string hand :)
A key reason is aesthetics and fashion. In a lot of cases that would be the look the person prefers, especially if they're basing their taste on something classical like imperial Rome or Authrian legend, like a lot of people used to.
Yeah, but, Matt did specify a fantasy world. trying to parry an ogre's club or Minotaur's ax with one finger over a quillon is going to hurt. Simple hilts are often a lot more shock absorbent.
For a military cost consideration that funded by a leader. Simpler is typically cheaper to get more weapons into more hands.
For an individual, more so a more wealthy person, fancy shows off more.
As a former re-enactor, I totally agree with the idea of "ease of use" as (especially in crowds) as a major priority. Great video!
For me, reason number one is that it's easier and faster to grab the sword - I wonder if I guessed it. :) Edit: Yes, I guessed it. But in this context of speed, something makes me wonder: why didn't they use such a clever scabbard for long swords or rapiers as the Arabs did for strongly curved sabers? Such a trick with an open top could theoretically allow you to draw a long straight weapon faster. In a strongly curved saber, this is a must. But in the case of a long straight weapon, this should also make you ready to fight faster.
Guessing those scabbards were worse at protecting blades from the elements
@@SwaAusch I'm close to this explanation too. While protection against rain and snow can be provided by a movable "roof", fabric... However, such a slit sword scabbard will always be structurally weaker. Or maybe in the case of the rapier, they thought like this: "Hey, in case of a sudden attack up close, I have a dagger to quickly draw."
1, those open middle east scabbard are fine, since they don't live in an rainy area, but in other parts of the world, rain is an bigger problem, since if an sword rusts, pulling it out is much more difficult,
My predictions:
Doesn't get in the way of a shield, especially a buckler.
Somewhat easier to carry and get your hand on the grip when drawing.
Costs less, easier to make.
Sometimes you don't need it so you can save the weight?
10:54 I just remembered one more thing: gauntlets.
I think I did pretty well. I'm kind of surprised that gauntlets weren't mentioned. I guess I didn't remember them at first either. Maybe the "especially bucklers" comment was wrong. I didn't know larger shields were also used like that.
Excellent video as always! Thanks!
Hi Matthew. Great video as always. Question: The sword and buckler mercenary companies that roamed Italy, weren't they swept hilts? I may be remembering it wrong but I have a distinct image of swords which looked very much like the Munich sword you showed.
Re: Bucklers. I've seen two different general styles of buckler use (sorry, not educated enough to be able to tell you which manual). One is the way you demonstrated where the buckler is basically glued to your sword hand. The other style you hold the buckler at full extension to get the largest cone of closed lines as you can, and you use the buckler independently of the sword hand. The second style seems more suited to complex hilts.
I think my answer is closer to half a point.
Related to getting your sword in hand and drawn, what if you're wearing armour and gauntlets? Particularly large gauntlets take up a whole heap of real estate. A simpler hilt may be useful for a more armoured combatant. One that frequently finds themselves in armoured combat may prefer a simpler hilt for the fact they don't need two swords. They have their sword and it's for general carry.
I think essential weight is a big factor. The extra weight of a guard that is sturdy enough vs the slowing effect it offers might not benifit a typically blade heavy design. The speed and success of draw seems to be a crucial factor too.
More a fantasy problem than historical, but being able to use fingers on both hands can be important. If I need a poison antidote/healing potion/spell component/magic item I can grab it with a simple hilt or use the fingers on my sword hand to help open a pouch which may require two hands to open and retrieve an item in combat. If my hilt doesn't let my fingers near the pouch I have to free up a hand somehow. (I have handed my blade to my strapped shield hand before, not ideal but it works can I can defend myself while I retrieve the item.) You don't have to have to put your sword in the sheath or drop it during combat to use both hands for something, maybe it's as simple as untangling reins or untying your horse from a post if the knot is wrong. Just try it with a basket hilt. :)
Matt I wonder why some wealthy or exprienced British cavalry officers serving in the North east frontiers in the 1840s - 1850s chose two or three bars hilts for their swords instead of more complex ones ?
What about *logistics?* Some hilts are bulkier, which means less swords per box/sack and less swords per wagon. I know this was a contemporary argument for the sword design used in the Swedish army during Karl XII (although I don't actually know how they stored swords during transport).
Also logistics? Think box with Cristmas lights. I imagine both disarming and arming will be easier, if you can just throw all the swords together in a big box or sack, or easily bundle them together, without the hilts getting entangled. And yes, it's not good for the blade having several swords thrown together loose in a box, but it is fast and convenient. (I know swords was historically distributed bundled together, because there are purchasing accounts for the strings used, but, again, I don't know how this was actually done).
I would love to see a video about how swords was stored and employed in different scenarios, I bet a lot of thinking went into this. I know ships had all their swords stored in racks when not used, and racks were also used for long term storage in armouries, because those racks has been preserved until today.
Speaking as table top roleplayer this is very interesting. Your average character will use their sword more in a 2 week span than a real world person would in their whole life but they would also be ambushed a lot more. So complex "good" hilt or convenient hilt? Same with climate. A complex hilt is great for the streets of Paris but in the snowy mountains of Fantasyland? I wouldn't want to try to finger a guard in my bearskin mittens. Role playing systems are rarely granular enough to account for hilt construction but this begins to explain why a viking sword and a cup hilt rapier would be in the same dragon hoard.
And finally in 20 century we have shashka as cavalry weapon.
Before I watch my guesses are first that the vast majority of swords are worn but never used so comfort is a serious consideration. Massive guards are simply more annoying to carry around. Second, as a secondary weapon in war lots of soldiers need a sword that doesn't get in the way of their polearm or bow. And third if you have a shield or buckler all of this hand protection adds a lot of cost and is cumbersome, yet provides inferior protection to the shield.
I feel like social concerns would be one of the biggest reasons why someone would carry a given sword, be it to telegraph membership of a social class or group, to display wealth, or simply just for fashion / stylistic reasons
The Katzbalger comes to mind as well as the katana of course
Surprise, speed, and violence of action can make up for a lot of other disadvantages.
its been a tough lesson to me
your a great teacher
The other good thing about swords with a handguard is the fact that its also a rather effective knuckleduster .
I've felt for a while that the protectiveness of complex hilts can be overvalued somewhat. The primary defensive feature of a sword is the blade, and your ability to parry with that blade. The hilt can be a good last ditch backup for your hand, but ideally you're trained not to rely on the hilt.
One thing I think of is that a simple hilt is easier to two hand than a complex hilt is. While it is possible to do with both there is a reason we don't see a lot of big swords with swept/basket/cup hilts compared to simple cross guards.
Very good as is normal for you. I do think you missed one reason while touching on it. Most people compare weapons in a open fight vs a dark alleyway. Like a dagger or other knife a simple sword would give the ability to fight with either hand. A fancy guard limits the ability to switch hands and while it maximizes sword on sward fighting, that what if a dagger slices your primary arm is a thing. There is even so many more times that just having one hand to use the sword could be bad. Again, great content.
I immediately thought of the initial cost of the weapon in the civilian market, but waited to see if it came up, nice to see I had the right idea
I don’t particularly think it is; you see plenty of fantastically expensive swords without any sort of complex guard
An additional reason is that a heavy complex hilt changes the balance of the sword, shifting it closer to the hilt, and for cutting swords (or styles of sword-fighting that prefer cutting) it is not that good. This could be especially important if you import sword-blades from somewhere else while making hilts locally (which was pretty common historically), so you can't change the balance of the blade to adapt to heavier hilt.
My understanding is that different schools (e.g. German, Bolognese) taught use of shields and bucklers differently: some taught that they should be used together (as one weapon) and others that they should be used independently (as different weapons). Do you the the amount of hand protection expected from the sword in among a given populace would influence how bucklers and shields were used in this respect?
That viking sword looks amazing, so beautiful.
i will always go for a simple hilt over a complex hilt, probably won't go past a knuckle bow when choosing a sword... the protagonist from one book of mine has a hanger with a knuckle bow in a world where rapiers and other complex hilts are extremely common because first of all he's old and just cut down his out of service cavalry saber from 38in blade to a 30in blade and second of all he's wearing it under a big leather overcoat with a brace of pistols so its more convenient
While its hilt isn’t all that complex, my one live sword (an Arms & Armor Venetian Rapier from 1999) does have a long enough blade that it would occasionally trip me up when I was in my old Renfaire uniform. This was such an issue that I wound up calling the blade, “Trapper,” as a nickname.
I always thought the extra weigh at the hilt takes away some of the cutting capacity. Tulwars and Shamshirs have very simple hits
Since you asked: in a literary world (fantasy or not) the ancient sword is a trope, one which I am guilty of using in my own novels. In those cases, the sword should look a bit different from what is fashionable at the time.
The 5th reason, and this is a massive reason, is TRENDINESS and also sometimes tradition !
I'm thinking here of 16th century islands north of Scotland, where they where style using type 12 blades, with local types of cross guards.
And also, in Napoleonic wars, French officers liked having Egyptian sabers who had more minimalist guards than most other European sabers. And also in the Napoleonic wars, the Coupe-choux was like a sword from another time as it was modeled after the Antic Greek Xyphos.
Why have a modern saber with a complex hilt when you can parade around with a super trendy sword that is basked in ancient Greek tradition and its Homeric heroes, or a connection with a cool country such as Egypt and its pyramids !
Fair point, though he did mention this being for a fantasy setting. So you also have to consider threats. Most fantasy settings have enemies far stronger and bigger than humans. I DO NOT want my finger around a quillon trying to parry a giant ass monster with a huge chopper. Even with gloves on the vibrations transmitted through the hilt are going to be a bitch.
Swept hilt swords were designed for fighting other humans. They weren't designed for fighting 10 foot tall monsters that are solid walls of muscle.
Another reason that comes to mind is personal preference. Not everyone likes fancy things. Some people just prefer a simple tool that does its job.
I'd think the closest European equivalent to a Viking-era Sword, at the time that Complex Hilts were common, would be something like a Katzbalger. Sure, they have a little more hand protection with their S-shaped guard, but not a whole lot more. And they're actually quite comparable in a number of other ways too.
Good vid Matt! However I have a question to the 3. point...why/how did highlanders used their baskethilted broadswords AND targes'?
I'd also point out that complex is an indication of personal wealth. Which also certainly means trained and practiced.
Footpads and the like generally prefer easier prey.
Something's just don't change.
That Town Guard sword is an exercise in pure intimidation.
Hello Matt, is it considered as hilt the whole assembly or is it just the part that one holds the sword and the potective implement is the hand guard? Cheers and merry Christmas!
Thanks for the good video ⚔️
the economical point got some addional aspects... logistics and marketing
a) logistics
lets say you got a town that is ordered to produce swords... they got some skilled smiths that make 300 blades a month but the smiths making the hilts get you about 75ish full basket hilts and 140ish sweppt hilts a month... or you could redistribute the smiths a bit and have them produce 50 full basket hilts about 150 sweppt hilts and 100 simpel basic hilts each month... (since insted of forcing a smith or two that barly can make a full basket and take twice the time to do so to make basket hilts, you have em make simpel hilts they can produce faster) what would you do... have a bunch of blades lying around collecting rust and dust or have a bunch of swords with less the ideal hilts going out to the troops
b) marketing
since you got a bunch of different (hilts) swords you try to sell you gona make up good arguments to sell what you got lying on top of the pile... I do imagin a salesman getting to hell where he meets former customers... the one he sold a full basket (salespoint: yeah inconvinient to carry but the muggers see you are armed and shy away from mugging you) that got mugged and stabbed while still trying to get his sword out... and the guy he sold one with a simple hilt (salespoint: you will always carry it in the scabard until one day you get mugged...you want something you get out quickly) that only ever used it in a duel which he lost because of minor cuts to his swordhand... and they both merrily beat him up
I would think that grapling would be a huge factor. In a heavily armored age halfswording might have beat hand protection.
To use his favorite word, Context. If you are fighting monsters, then they are likey not swordsmen, though some might have a natural blades or something. I'll go back to one of my favorite videos he did years ago. The broadsword had a service hilt that was just a basic crossguard, when they had the full-on basket hilt as well. The service crossguard hilt is the same concept as my fantasy example. You are not worried about fencing. Your concern is being able to deploy it as easily as possible, because you are using it on people with bayonets and things. A complex hilt is not really helpful against a spear that can shoot.
Yep, because fantasy worlds are full of ambushes. Far more than you'd likely face in this world.
My impression is that use of a complex hillts is limited to Europe ( mostly Western) and persisted for a relatively short time. Also, they were used for a straight thrusting blades for foot fencing or mounted charges, so for situations when sword arm is pointed forward frequently and exposed. The more blades are designed/used for haking/slashing, the less complex hillts they require ( like a messer in your example). The extreme examples are Caucasian shashka, without any guard, or Turkish yatagan.
Wrong on both points. For a complex hilt outside Western Europe, see the Indian patta. For a complex hilt that is used mostly with cutting, see the Scottish basket.
@baltasartranconywidemann5129 well, they are exceptions that confirm the rule.
@@pavelktitorov7707 Professional logician speaking: Any rule that needs exceptions for confirmation sucks.
@@baltasartranconywidemann5129 👌, semi- professional statistician answer is that presumably less than 5 % of exceptions from the rule ( in the global scale) makes almost zero impact on the general trend.
Curious, in an up-close fight at what we'd consider 'bad breath distance', does an elaborate hilt like the one featured present a point of control for an enemy? Is this covered in treatises or practices? If say a dagger-wielding opponent gets the drop on you, can he not easily grab your hilt (perhaps even while you still have your sword sheathed!) and control your weapon more easily? I know that sounds like very much a 'worst case scenario', but it's something we consider in firearms - the chance an opponent can grab your firearm and control it (and by extension, you).
18:32 Weight for one, complex hilt sword weights more (than a simple hilt counterpart), and naturally you may not like the balancing on such sword.
Also, I imagine complex hilt would take more time/resources to produce, so it'd cost more, but it'd be a pain to clean up or fix as well.
A tangled mess of bars is not necessarilly easy to store, transport or conceal either.
I also wonder how well a complex hilt gets along with thick gloves.
Matt making a response video to (kinda) his own video :-)
A simple hilt can be quickly transferred between hands. Essential if you need to manipulate your environment with your dominant hand while keeping your sword at the ready.
Even though Matt keeps saying "viking" whenever he waves around that sword, those runes are of the Angle-Saxon-Frise futhorc. They're not even earlier Elder futhark (the Germanic runic system that is the root of both the futhorc and the later Younger futhark. The Younger futhark was the Scandinavian system that mostly overlaps with muh vikangz, and those sure as hell aren't Younger futhark runes.
Truly one of the English moments of all time.
I have two swords with "Fancy" guards. My Scottish Basket Hilt Broadsword, and the Cold steel 1917 Navy Cutlass, well, Lynn Thompson's version. Oh, almost forgot my newest sword, the Gustav Messer, it has nearly a D guard to protect the hand. But all three are historically correct. The remain swords and I have six more, have simple guards.
Would some people be taught only to thrust if the instructor saw they were just really bad at edge alignment but had a position that obligated them to wear a sword?
Well, if you have armoured gauntlets, then a complex hilt within which you could fit your gauntleted hands would need to be larger, and every disadvantage it has so much the greater, because of this. It could be argued that the complex guard protects you hand better than gauntlets, but if you are wearing gauntlets while using a polearm, you are not going to have time to tae them off when you have to reach for your sword (or dagger). But if you are an archer, you probably don't have a shield and don't waer gauntlets when operating your bow in that case, it must be more of a dilemma what kind of hillt you want. Maybe it also depends how long you expect to be engaged in hand to hand comabt onece the enemy clsoes (or you close).
I tend to prefer simpler hilts much of the time because it enables me to do certain cuts that I couldn't do if I were using a more complex hilt
Complex hilts are more probable in the hands of officers, because they have a higher pay and status and have their sword aways drawn to point and command, so it's their primary weapon already. Soldiers and pioneers hilts are more utilitarian and simple, and consider wearing convenience, price and fast drawing much more.
I would say that in the usual fantasy setting, you also have to deal with humanoids that are larger and more massive than humans. In that environment fiddly dueling swords wouldn't last long. Especially on the battlefield. You'd wind up with long swords or sword and shield as the primary combo for sidearms.
Lets take a standard humanoid threat: Think about having to parry a Minotaur's battle ax. Damned thing stands 8-10 feet tall and is mostly muscle. If you get a direct hit you need both hands to brace your defense. A Viking style sword can be braced directly against the shield to help absorb the force of a blow or deflect it. A two hander likewise allows you to use both hands and the strength of your legs to avoid being overpowered.
Now imagine trying to stand in a dueling stance with a swept hilt. The first time you have to actually try and parry or worse, block, That blade is going to vibrate like a church bell. Your hand is going to be hurting from your finger around the quillon. Remember we're talking creatures that have more than human strength. Whereas a simple hilt has a layer of leather over the wood and the hand is protected from excessive vibration that way.
And this doesn't even get into fighting giants, ogres, other such nasties.
In my opinion the best movies to do swords is The Chronicles of Narnia especially the Prince Caspian. That might be a good video to give your expert opinion on the weapons of the Narnia movies
I do swiss Reislaufer reenactment of approx. 1505 - 1515. I can tell you personally, the amount of times I've had a cross guard get snagged in the slashing of my hose or doublet is a major reason why I primarily wear a Swiss Degen now lol.