I love this aggressive approach. I needed this as a reminder! I sometimes complain when there isn't a dedicated planner at a wedding, but these are important questions I need to ask the couple so I can charge accordingly and take charge 🙂
Great video and all good advice that I have given over the years when I have trained people in Wedding Photography. My helping with the timeline was always a plus when dealing with potential customers. But from the word go when you first start out this all has to be learned and experienced as you had to John.People should try and get experience as a second shooter before they ever tackle a wedding.I am retired form weddings now, (I am 76). If you are shooting a wedding properly it is a very physical day and I don't have the fitness anymore.Even though I did many weddings over many years I was always tense on the morning of a wedding. But that tenseness means you are serious about your craft and you care and it will go away once you start.I am still a wedding photographer but just not practicing any more and still involved in photography.thanks again. Geoff
@2:44 I disagree. Ever hear of Kevin Mullins, another Fujifilm Wedding Photographer. I don’t think his weddings are any less smooth because of his approach - in fact, I’d say they’re more smooth. His work is one of a kind. There are plenty of organic moments during wedding days that just would not be the same if they were posed. I’m currently having a balance between a documentary approach and a fixed/pose approach, but I definitely see myself moving more towards 100% documentary because the photos just come out WAY better. More wholesome, more organic, less intrusive, less disruptive… and you get to capture the complete essence of the wedding rather than a wedding with a bunch of artificial moments. But “better” is subjective right? Lol I suppose I’ve just found my photos are better with a documentary style but that may be because I’ve always gravitated towards that as far as what I personally enjoyed and what has had the larger impact on myself and those I’ve worked with. Many of the staged photos actually happen organically throughout the day, more often than not. I find it’s on the photographer with whether or not they are observant or skilled enough to capture them. Sometimes you won’t get the photos you may have wanted or got with the last wedding but that’s what makes each one special. And I think the documentary approach allows one to capture that uniqueness more effectively rather than going in with the same to-do-list or handbook of poses. Although… that book is still essential imo because you never know when it may be needed and if you have it (mentally or physically) you can refer to it, get the shot and carry on. I think something that helps me with this documentary approach is the fact that majority of the couples I get are laid back and want this style of photography haha, so demand plays another role. Here’s a difference between the posing and documentary approaches: Imagine, the family is in a nice little huddle at during the reception, talking about key memories and you capture a moment where the mom and daughter are talking about a funny childhood moment that is incredibly important to the both of them and others are laughing around them, reminiscing. looking at that photo later… it’s going to create a completely different feeling for them when they remember exactly what was being said in that moment as opposed to a staged photo of them in a huddle because they were told to be, looking at one another in a moment of artificial laughter because the photographer said “now pick someone, look at them and laugh.” One creates the feeling of - OHH!! This is where we were talking about so & so omg what a great moment I can’t believe he got a photo of this. While the other is - here’s our posed group photo; the photographer told us to do this so we did; no story within it or anything but, cool photo. Those staged photos are needed at times, but I don’t think they are as impactful or meaningful as the organic moments that are captured. Yeah sometimes you may have a straight up awkward family that absolutely needs to be posed for every little thing but that’s a different case. Here’s one of his videos that imo shows why the documentary approach (when done well) is unmatched in terms of impact and storytelling. th-cam.com/video/ERK3hmVJkfs/w-d-xo.html
Oh yeah I totally agree with what you’re saying. Sometimes talking about these topics for me I’m not sure I totally get the point across unless I make a full on TEDtalk about it. So to start Kevin’s work is amazing. Hands down. However, on the same end I wonder how many banger shots come from a full wedding being 100% documentary style. The biggest thing to point out when I talk about this is I’m mainly talking to starting wedding photographers who really just don’t know how to move their days and/or find the moments. Also, over my 10 years of being a wedding photographer I find that less really touching moments happen on their own. So I choose to put my couples in situations where the moments organically happen because me putting them there and then catching the truly organic ones when they happen. Too many photographers blame “bad photos” on the fact that the wedding was cheap, or not beautiful but it’s really their approach. So I fully agree with you and honestly the majority of my days are photojournalistic. But a bit of hand holding goes a LONG way for most photographers. Thank you so much for sharing your opinion on this. I don’t watch Kevin’s stuff enough so I might go check out more but of what I’ve seen of his work it’s truly amazing.
@@jbivphotography I see what you mean, and I understand. This is the reason I’m currently doing weddings with a balance between the two approaches. Some couples need that direction in order for us to create those memorable photos for them and it’s also our job to make sure we get the couples what they want. I’m not in the position to cherry pick which weddings I want to do based on approach yet, so I currently base my approach on the wants of the couple and type of family I’m working with. Once my documentary approach is the main reason people are booking me, then I can transition over to doing mainly documentary. I’ve found the banger photos still occur with the documentary approach, just differently and they’re ‘banger’ in a different way, if that makes sense. There are also some incredibly beautiful organic photos moments/photos that would not have occurred without a little guidance from the photographer, so I totally resonate with the notion of putting the couple in the position for those really beautiful organic moments to happen when needed. And no problem, figured I’d share because discussions are boring without contrary opinions haha. Keep up the amazing work man, my first weddings were successful because of your videos. Blessings and best of wishes!
I’ve realized that I love photography for years. But I was too scared that I’m not enough. After watching your videos I finally started taking photos for Clients this year. Not weddings, but babies and small kids and parents. I got nice feedbacks and it motivates me a lot. Thank you John for giving me courage! 😊
Setting expectations is great but exceeding them is even better. Sometimes this means if one other thing doesn't work out, that they're still super stoked and won't focus on any small issues. For example when possible I do a same day highlight edit and display their best images from the day on an iPad at the reception, which I first present to the couple. The excitement is real on their faces.
YES!!! EXACTLY! Thanks for adding this. "surprise and delight" is what we used to call it at Apple when I worked there. Set the expectations and then exceed them!
Yeah this is pretty much my approach when shooting weddings. It's crazy to see some photographers that just let things happen without taking control over the whole thing. Great vid as always John.
Some extremely great tips regardless of your "genre" of photography if you are dealing with clients, especially. I really appreciate the emphasis on the happiness of the couple vs. the technicality. People *want* to be led in situations like these, and it is important to keep that in mind. As John said - nobody was ever successful being timid when you're in a customer service situation. Great comment about the gear, too - if your gear is an extension of yourself / your arms / hands / mind's eye - and you truly know it, you will reduce the friction of the moment by simply and fluidly maneuvering through settings as if it were just a thought in your brain. Committing to learning these things and following this advice will 100% reduce the friction of the moment and allow you to be the true artist that the client hired you for and that you should walk in knowing that you'll be for them!
I really do wish more photographers focused on the success of their photoshoots and the happiness of their clients rather than “best cameras” and technically “perfect” photos. Thanks for watching!
Never understood these channels that say they got a new camera and then shot a wedding, get to know your camera before taking it out on a paid gig. So true about planning, the thing that scares me is when someone changes things, like lets do the speeches over here or something is changes and they don't tell you, like, oh i thought it wouldn'tatter to the photographer/videographer. When there is an event, everyone has a different idea, and only one gets there way, or they keep changing things. That is what scares me or gear failure. 😯
I'm from Brazil and here most weddings are at night. You spoke of the photographer who keeps looking at the camera but weddings that take place during the day are rare and, apart from the other topics, this is the only thing you can't help but do. The night is always a place with bad light and some places have good light, it's a variation of good and bad light all the time, so I'm always looking to know if I need to change the flash or the camera.
It really is annoying. Like when speeches are going on and no one will be quite to listen to the speech. Or when the ceremony happens and the officiant says to put your phones down and be a part of the moment but everyone has their phone out just to get a picture and on top of that are blocking the couple. I would say generally a good at least 50% (that’s what it seems like) of guest are just there because.
Totally disagree with the no matter how cheap and bad the wedding looks. You can make the photos look amazing if you take them outdoors or rearrange the inside yourself. But if the decorations and set up is horrible, its almost impossible.
Write a timeline. Guess what I will do next time? As for setting expectations, I am working on the copy for my client information. It will go on my website and into a PDF that I will email. OTOH, I will respectfully disagree with you on Honeybook. For me, it quickly turned into a hot mess and I really had to raise a ruckus to get the tech support I needed. I won't be using it again.
@@jbivphotography Agreed. And I have a couple of mentors here in Tucson. Will be meeting one tomorrow and the other on Tuesday. CRM will be on the agenda.
Reason 6: The MC is an untrained mate who shows up without a clue and likes to throw the timeline out the window and not communicate with any vendors. 😂 I give all of my couples a run sheet through Studio Ninja to and ask them to send it to me completed. I give pointers to help give the right amount of time for each thing. I create candid looking moments during the portrait session. They're not models but if they have fun in good light and you give them something to do, it'll work out 👌
whilst I respect and appreciate your approach to how you handle, photograph, and manage your wedding clients and wedding days, this is your way, your style and works for your couples that are attracted to your style of work. I spent 15 years managing the day exactly how you do until I hit the wall, had mental burnout, and yes it nearly destroyed me. Photojournalistic style, the hands-off approach is also a skill I wish I had, a skill only a few actually genuinely have, moments do happen on every wedding day and those awesome journos are always ready... Rants make us look weak so maybe you should except there are many ways to achieve the best for our couples. taking the piss out of others is not a great way of winning people over. Maybe some could say you try too hard to be that new-breed hipster with his Fujis swinging on his leather strap trying to look so dam cool ( but I would Not say that ) Peace!!
Ahh, no, i strongly don't agree, all good achievements are well executed. Not just weddings everything, yes you can get candid shots but it needs to be in a framework of the time schedule. There is so many variables at a wedding, wing it and one day you will have a disaster.
@@waynosfotos Dont think I was saying wing it.. thats a whole different story, although i did do that once, shot a whole wedding on an X100f LONG story but B and G loved the images
I think a big portion of that is setting expectations. If you’re not setting them correctly and really letting the couple know that you’re the expect (remember this has to mainly happen before the wedding day) then when the wedding day comes up they’re not going to listen to you. Them asking on the day of is not the same as you really making it apparent to them what it’ll be before the fact and getting them on your team. I’m really only so passionate about this because it’s something I used to deal with myself.
Great tips, but you really lost me at the end with all the arrogance and pretentious attitude. Been shooting for 4 1/2 years, have been published and featured dozens of times, and there's no need for you to act so condescendingly and superior as an educator.
Sorry I came off that way but being “superior” has no part of it. Just trying to bring light to a different way of thinking because for years all educators talk about the same things and approach and I’ve seen it become a crutch for a lot of new photographers and it holds them back.
![ILLSLICK - WINTER IS COMING [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/dwTMeM1zIhQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Ok....I'll get off my soapbox.
Loved it😂
I love this aggressive approach. I needed this as a reminder! I sometimes complain when there isn't a dedicated planner at a wedding, but these are important questions I need to ask the couple so I can charge accordingly and take charge 🙂
Great video and all good advice that I have given over the years when I have trained people in Wedding Photography. My helping with the timeline was always a plus when dealing with potential customers. But from the word go when you first start out this all has to be learned and experienced as you had to John.People should try and get experience as a second shooter before they ever tackle a wedding.I am retired form weddings now, (I am 76). If you are shooting a wedding properly it is a very physical day and I don't have the fitness anymore.Even though I did many weddings over many years I was always tense on the morning of a wedding. But that tenseness means you are serious about your craft and you care and it will go away once you start.I am still a wedding photographer but just not practicing any more and still involved in photography.thanks again. Geoff
@2:44 I disagree. Ever hear of Kevin Mullins, another Fujifilm Wedding Photographer. I don’t think his weddings are any less smooth because of his approach - in fact, I’d say they’re more smooth. His work is one of a kind. There are plenty of organic moments during wedding days that just would not be the same if they were posed. I’m currently having a balance between a documentary approach and a fixed/pose approach, but I definitely see myself moving more towards 100% documentary because the photos just come out WAY better. More wholesome, more organic, less intrusive, less disruptive… and you get to capture the complete essence of the wedding rather than a wedding with a bunch of artificial moments. But “better” is subjective right? Lol I suppose I’ve just found my photos are better with a documentary style but that may be because I’ve always gravitated towards that as far as what I personally enjoyed and what has had the larger impact on myself and those I’ve worked with.
Many of the staged photos actually happen organically throughout the day, more often than not. I find it’s on the photographer with whether or not they are observant or skilled enough to capture them. Sometimes you won’t get the photos you may have wanted or got with the last wedding but that’s what makes each one special. And I think the documentary approach allows one to capture that uniqueness more effectively rather than going in with the same to-do-list or handbook of poses. Although… that book is still essential imo because you never know when it may be needed and if you have it (mentally or physically) you can refer to it, get the shot and carry on.
I think something that helps me with this documentary approach is the fact that majority of the couples I get are laid back and want this style of photography haha, so demand plays another role.
Here’s a difference between the posing and documentary approaches:
Imagine, the family is in a nice little huddle at during the reception, talking about key memories and you capture a moment where the mom and daughter are talking about a funny childhood moment that is incredibly important to the both of them and others are laughing around them, reminiscing. looking at that photo later… it’s going to create a completely different feeling for them when they remember exactly what was being said in that moment as opposed to a staged photo of them in a huddle because they were told to be, looking at one another in a moment of artificial laughter because the photographer said “now pick someone, look at them and laugh.” One creates the feeling of - OHH!! This is where we were talking about so & so omg what a great moment I can’t believe he got a photo of this. While the other is - here’s our posed group photo; the photographer told us to do this so we did; no story within it or anything but, cool photo. Those staged photos are needed at times, but I don’t think they are as impactful or meaningful as the organic moments that are captured. Yeah sometimes you may have a straight up awkward family that absolutely needs to be posed for every little thing but that’s a different case.
Here’s one of his videos that imo shows why the documentary approach (when done well) is unmatched in terms of impact and storytelling. th-cam.com/video/ERK3hmVJkfs/w-d-xo.html
Oh yeah I totally agree with what you’re saying. Sometimes talking about these topics for me I’m not sure I totally get the point across unless I make a full on TEDtalk about it. So to start Kevin’s work is amazing. Hands down. However, on the same end I wonder how many banger shots come from a full wedding being 100% documentary style. The biggest thing to point out when I talk about this is I’m mainly talking to starting wedding photographers who really just don’t know how to move their days and/or find the moments. Also, over my 10 years of being a wedding photographer I find that less really touching moments happen on their own. So I choose to put my couples in situations where the moments organically happen because me putting them there and then catching the truly organic ones when they happen. Too many photographers blame “bad photos” on the fact that the wedding was cheap, or not beautiful but it’s really their approach. So I fully agree with you and honestly the majority of my days are photojournalistic. But a bit of hand holding goes a LONG way for most photographers. Thank you so much for sharing your opinion on this. I don’t watch Kevin’s stuff enough so I might go check out more but of what I’ve seen of his work it’s truly amazing.
@@jbivphotography I see what you mean, and I understand. This is the reason I’m currently doing weddings with a balance between the two approaches. Some couples need that direction in order for us to create those memorable photos for them and it’s also our job to make sure we get the couples what they want. I’m not in the position to cherry pick which weddings I want to do based on approach yet, so I currently base my approach on the wants of the couple and type of family I’m working with. Once my documentary approach is the main reason people are booking me, then I can transition over to doing mainly documentary.
I’ve found the banger photos still occur with the documentary approach, just differently and they’re ‘banger’ in a different way, if that makes sense.
There are also some incredibly beautiful organic photos moments/photos that would not have occurred without a little guidance from the photographer, so I totally resonate with the notion of putting the couple in the position for those really beautiful organic moments to happen when needed.
And no problem, figured I’d share because discussions are boring without contrary opinions haha. Keep up the amazing work man, my first weddings were successful because of your videos. Blessings and best of wishes!
I’ve realized that I love photography for years. But I was too scared that I’m not enough. After watching your videos I finally started taking photos for Clients this year. Not weddings, but babies and small kids and parents. I got nice feedbacks and it motivates me a lot. Thank you John for giving me courage! 😊
Setting expectations is great but exceeding them is even better. Sometimes this means if one other thing doesn't work out, that they're still super stoked and won't focus on any small issues.
For example when possible I do a same day highlight edit and display their best images from the day on an iPad at the reception, which I first present to the couple. The excitement is real on their faces.
YES!!! EXACTLY! Thanks for adding this. "surprise and delight" is what we used to call it at Apple when I worked there. Set the expectations and then exceed them!
@@jbivphotography This!!
Great tips, John! Writing a timeline to optimize for key photos/moment that are crucial for the couple is KEY 🔑
Daaamn
I've been on a JBIV binge the last couple days. This one made me chuckle a few times. Love it.
Thanks for hanging out on the channel. Glad you’re enjoying the content.
Oh my god I love it! Calling some people out! I feel called out but agree with everything you’re saying man. This is all great info.
This was really good, John!! We are the professionals! Love your way of telling stories lol
Thank you!
Great video!! Would love to see a video on how you set expectations with clients at the consultation
This is your best video! I love your honesty and you are so right on it all! 👏👏👏
Appreciate it
Yeah this is pretty much my approach when shooting weddings. It's crazy to see some photographers that just let things happen without taking control over the whole thing. Great vid as always John.
Thanks for watching
Uh oh, John is clapping. Listen up! 😂
😂😂 You know them hard truths are coming when the clapping starts.
Yes, some good points but the loud clapping can get annoying lol.
Some extremely great tips regardless of your "genre" of photography if you are dealing with clients, especially. I really appreciate the emphasis on the happiness of the couple vs. the technicality. People *want* to be led in situations like these, and it is important to keep that in mind.
As John said - nobody was ever successful being timid when you're in a customer service situation.
Great comment about the gear, too - if your gear is an extension of yourself / your arms / hands / mind's eye - and you truly know it, you will reduce the friction of the moment by simply and fluidly maneuvering through settings as if it were just a thought in your brain.
Committing to learning these things and following this advice will 100% reduce the friction of the moment and allow you to be the true artist that the client hired you for and that you should walk in knowing that you'll be for them!
I really do wish more photographers focused on the success of their photoshoots and the happiness of their clients rather than “best cameras” and technically “perfect” photos. Thanks for watching!
Man, John's going off! I love it! 🔥🔥
Kicking them hard truths.
So much good info in this video! Thank you for posting.
You’re welcome. I hope this helps out!
Another amazingly motivating video ! Thank you John, you da best! :)
I appreciate that. I hope it was helpful!
Thanks for the great video! Very informative 🙏🏻😌
Thank you for watching.
I always discuss this at the Pre Wedding shoot which is always included
Appreciate ALL of your tips
Thanks for watching
Never understood these channels that say they got a new camera and then shot a wedding, get to know your camera before taking it out on a paid gig. So true about planning, the thing that scares me is when someone changes things, like lets do the speeches over here or something is changes and they don't tell you, like, oh i thought it wouldn'tatter to the photographer/videographer. When there is an event, everyone has a different idea, and only one gets there way, or they keep changing things. That is what scares me or gear failure. 😯
They're just coming for the FOOD, yes I completely agree with you 😂
It’s true most of the time
I'm from Brazil and here most weddings are at night. You spoke of the photographer who keeps looking at the camera but weddings that take place during the day are rare and, apart from the other topics, this is the only thing you can't help but do. The night is always a place with bad light and some places have good light, it's a variation of good and bad light all the time, so I'm always looking to know if I need to change the flash or the camera.
I'm lazy to go to venue tours same as you. And use the same different time, different light argument :D
Damn good and honest video!
Sometimes we have to kick the hard truths.
8:34 - that is so true, and I hate it because it is somewhat disrespectful to the couple. But that's just me.
It really is annoying. Like when speeches are going on and no one will be quite to listen to the speech. Or when the ceremony happens and the officiant says to put your phones down and be a part of the moment but everyone has their phone out just to get a picture and on top of that are blocking the couple. I would say generally a good at least 50% (that’s what it seems like) of guest are just there because.
YOU THE BEST
Totally disagree with the no matter how cheap and bad the wedding looks. You can make the photos look amazing if you take them outdoors or rearrange the inside yourself. But if the decorations and set up is horrible, its almost impossible.
Write a timeline. Guess what I will do next time?
As for setting expectations, I am working on the copy for my client information. It will go on my website and into a PDF that I will email.
OTOH, I will respectfully disagree with you on Honeybook. For me, it quickly turned into a hot mess and I really had to raise a ruckus to get the tech support I needed. I won't be using it again.
Awww. That’s sad to hear about Honeybook. Sorry to hear you had troubles. However, some type of CRM really is needed.
@@jbivphotography Agreed. And I have a couple of mentors here in Tucson. Will be meeting one tomorrow and the other on Tuesday. CRM will be on the agenda.
Reason 6: The MC is an untrained mate who shows up without a clue and likes to throw the timeline out the window and not communicate with any vendors. 😂
I give all of my couples a run sheet through Studio Ninja to and ask them to send it to me completed. I give pointers to help give the right amount of time for each thing.
I create candid looking moments during the portrait session. They're not models but if they have fun in good light and you give them something to do, it'll work out 👌
Amazing additions. I hope everyone reads this. And OMG the MC who just does their own thing is always the WORST!
whilst I respect and appreciate your approach to how you handle, photograph, and manage your wedding clients and wedding days, this is your way, your style and works for your couples that are attracted to your style of work. I spent 15 years managing the day exactly how you do until I hit the wall, had mental burnout, and yes it nearly destroyed me. Photojournalistic style, the hands-off approach is also a skill I wish I had, a skill only a few actually genuinely have, moments do happen on every wedding day and those awesome journos are always ready... Rants make us look weak so maybe you should except there are many ways to achieve the best for our couples. taking the piss out of others is not a great way of winning people over. Maybe some could say you try too hard to be that new-breed hipster with his Fujis swinging on his leather strap trying to look so dam cool ( but I would Not say that ) Peace!!
Ahh, no, i strongly don't agree, all good achievements are well executed. Not just weddings everything, yes you can get candid shots but it needs to be in a framework of the time schedule. There is so many variables at a wedding, wing it and one day you will have a disaster.
@@waynosfotos Dont think I was saying wing it.. thats a whole different story, although i did do that once, shot a whole wedding on an X100f LONG story but B and G loved the images
Yes, no. The main source of my wedding stress is because couples & planners ask for my "expert opinion" and then DON'T LISTEN!
I think a big portion of that is setting expectations. If you’re not setting them correctly and really letting the couple know that you’re the expect (remember this has to mainly happen before the wedding day) then when the wedding day comes up they’re not going to listen to you. Them asking on the day of is not the same as you really making it apparent to them what it’ll be before the fact and getting them on your team. I’m really only so passionate about this because it’s something I used to deal with myself.
nahhh bro you to funny for this @10:30
😂😂😂
lol statistically, the only thing left over from the wedding is the photos…
🙃🙃🙃
Forgive me but this feels like 2022 JBiv scolding 2015 JBiv. 😂all good advice tho
Lol it’s so true. I wish I would have learned this stuff earlier on. Honestly feel like I nearly wasted the first 3 years of my photo career
lol zooms are not evil
😂😂 They're not. I just have feelings about them.
Nah man the best photos aren’t setup, the best photos have enough magentaaaaaaaa
😂😂😂
Great tips, but you really lost me at the end with all the arrogance and pretentious attitude. Been shooting for 4 1/2 years, have been published and featured dozens of times, and there's no need for you to act so condescendingly and superior as an educator.
Sorry I came off that way but being “superior” has no part of it. Just trying to bring light to a different way of thinking because for years all educators talk about the same things and approach and I’ve seen it become a crutch for a lot of new photographers and it holds them back.