It depends really. I did an unpaid internship in UK and ended up becoming a full time employee after I graduation. This is probably the least likely scenario to happen.
You are senior dev. You already had your experience and the recruiters do not laugh at you. The situation looks completely different from the point of view of a noob who knows that others will agree to an unpaid internship. The race to the bottom is common to several industries where your location is not important. You have entered the programming profession in a different era and did not notice the world is gradually changing.
@@jacekjacenty I second this since the whole point of an internship is to gain experience paid or not. Saying unpaid ones are a trap sounds more like an oxymoron. Three months is not a big deal and most people work a second job anyway to be able to cover for it. Plus your boxing yourself out of the job placement because no one is going to hire someone without experience. If you do one unpaid and then two paid ones that adds up over a year of experience. I don’t think you realize how difficult the barrier to entry level program jobs has become. Your in a senior role so you wouldn’t be able to relate to how different the job landscape has changed especially now with covid-19.
@@jacekjacenty Yeah but that's the problem. If your logic is that others are doing it and you have no choice you'll get an unpaid internship for sure. Company: "What a steal! Free labor for my multi-million dollar project!" Now apply the same logic to a paid position. You get the job because companies do infact pay people for zero experience. Company: "60,000/yr What a steal! Cheap labor for my multi-million dollar project!" I'd evaluate the project you'll be working on and get a sense for what value you think can bring to the team. Zero experience does not equal zero value. I guess if you get an internship and do nothing all day maybe zero pay makes sense but if you provide value to a project or the company I'd ask for pay. Evaluating value with zero experience is difficult maybe you can think what exactly the role is responsible for. Working backend or frontend? Doing more grunt work that no one likes to do? You'll get the hang of everything on the job so don't think zero pay is the only way to get experience. Yeah I have experience but that does not mean anything if the company is set on not paying anything anyway. I've applied to positions and been undercut by interns before, I don't reduce my pay because of that.
@@jacekjacenty You provide a moot point, though. Because you are in this bad scenario, you are already accepting of it and perpetuate the problem. The OP said that it SHOULD NOT be this way and your reply is basically, "Well, it is" Your "reasons" defending it doesn't explain why there is no pay. It literally makes the industry worse by creating these paradoxical "entry-level" positions with years of work experience. It makes the base line pay rate even lower for the industry as a whole.
Would you say its better to work a job that is totally unrelated to the field like retail? Or just take the no paying job related to the industry you want to be in to get experience?
@@matthewsnyder1079 I personally believe that if one works in a part-time role like retail, one can learn the necessary communication and customer/client facing techniques. They are just as important as the technical skills. If not, more important in some ways. One can then learn the technical skills outside of the retail job. Unpaid internships are very risky and in my experience, they haven't helped me that much compared to the other above approach. Learning multiple skills is now becoming more and more important. Particularly in a tighter job market as a result of the COVID-19 pandemic.
I'd imagine from a corporate point of view that there isn't much of a reason to take your unpaid interns too seriously since you are not staking any of your money on them to give your company value. Meaning, as an unpaid intern chances are it is a lot less of a valuable experience than if you were paid since you are not treated like an actual employee that is paid and costing the company money.
You look more like Gilfoyle. I applied for an unpaid internship, they just roasted my resume and were rude to me at the interview. -2021. They were looking for an unpaid PHD. LMAO
When I was in Vietnam there was an unpaid intern at a company I work for that was from like Sweden or some place similar. The problem I see is companies need IT individuals but don't value them or take advantage of them. As long as there a BS demand for entry level to have 3+ years experience and a hype around tech jobs then there will be individuals willing to do unpaid internships. But I agree with Josh, start your own company and work on your own projects if no one is going to pay you.
Small businesses can be a good place to start to find a job when you're just getting started. They can't afford high priced professionals many times which gives you an opportunity to learn on the job and become valuable. And when it comes to programming, what you do on your own time is also valuable. I got my first jobs because of my hobby projects. All you need is a year or two in a job doing work you can brag about and you're on your way.
@@TheProdiigy100 I got my start doing game programming. Games require knowing a lot of different concepts and making things run efficiently. Especially back when computers were 133mhz.
@Bacon Pancakes The world is a different place. We didn't have Google and Stack Overflow giving the answers, free compilers for any language, endless TH-cam tutorials, etc. You just have to make your mind up that you want to do a thing and put in the effort. I've yet to get a job at a company I knew existed before I started looking for a job. And I make plenty of money. You don't need a job at a well known company to be financially well off.
At least in Europe I have always seen internships specify whether they are paid or unpaid upfront. I simply don't apply if it's unpaid, plenty paid options.
@@michalpitr4474 Well, plenty i don't know in this context, i was obliged to accept an internship remotely unpaid to validate my semester. Can't quit bc a friend of mine (who helped me getting this job i regret now) is working for this compagny and i don't wanna make him in trouble
@@matthieurioual8807 Right that's rough, my university doesn't require us to have to have placements during semesters, so I had summer internships in mind.
At our University we have a digital black board where different companies can offer jobs and all of them are paid. I once saw one for a start-up that was looking for a developer who would help with a VR project and they offered 2500€ per month for a 20h week (average income in Germany for a 40h week is 2500€) don't ever get lowballed
Did an unpaid internship once, only thing I got to learn was how to waste time 11 hours a day, cringe office politics, how upper management only sees you as an expandable resource and that Human Resource department is only filled with most inhumane people on the planet
I definitely agree that all interns should definitely be paid, but as an international student (not US) with very shitty laws for international students its extremely hard to get a job let alone be paid. So instead I had to look elsewhere for remote opportunities which was even harder. I accepted an unpaid internship which gave me some experience and I felt it after that the ball was rolling. Now I managed to find another job, again before finishing my undergrad, abroad which pays much better than I would ever dream off in this shitty country. If I go back in time would I accept the unpaid internships? I think I still would because I don't think I would've been able to get enough experience otherwise. But if I was in the US or a country that actually allowed students to work without choking them, I would probably not.
My first 2 weeks as a software engineer (at 18 years of age) were unpaid and then I got paid but the salary was ridiculously low. When I started 2 months later my university I was part-time with a decent salary. Now at 19 years of age, I switched to a different company and now the salary is quite better. The point is that without the unpaid part I probably would not be able to work right now.
Agreed! I think sometimes it's just a necessary evil especially if you are in a different country or an international student. Always helps to beef up your cv. Thankfully though the unpaid internships I did were not worthless and I actually did gain useful experiences from them to help me move on. I think the biggest factor in unpaid internships is that you might not be valued at all since you are "free" so you might not end up doing anything interesting. But if you do and get good experience it might definitely be worth it if there's no other choice.
I just entered uni and before that, I did some work in a company without getting paid. It was such a waste of time in many ways: All the time which I could have invested on a job where I'd have gotten paid!
I agree, only that if it meant getting experience or no internship at all. I'd take an unpaid internship, companies value experience so much, coming off a bachelor's degree with no experience hurts you if you're competing with other who do. There is so many people who are getting into the tech space & this means companies can really take advantage of this, hiring the best talent at the lowest price. I mean look at the gaming industry, those guys get screwed and they can't do anything about it. The top devs in the world like Blizzard are notorious for treating their people like crap...
@Bacon Pancakes I imagine that if these companies catch wind you're trying to get a union going, you'd get fired so fast. You make it sound like people can live solely on principal and not worry about bills & rent. There are some many developers that can code, staging a walkout, just means outsourcing their work to those that will work. This means those "idiots" programmers are out of a job, fired for wanting a union, and person no grata at other major dev studios. Cost of living is too high to risk it if you have kids/family. The game is rigged man, it aint the players fault.
I signed up for a “development program” and as the date got closer and closer, I was sent documents saying it was an internship. Then I realized, I was doing free work. So, I just stopped showing up to the meetings and doing the work. I should probably take it off of my résumé or make it look like an 8-week voluntarily development program.
im thanking you soo much. The timing is important. Semester is about to finish and we see a lot of unpaid internships, and thanks for reminding me to avoid those
In Brazil unpaid internships are illegal, also the weekly working hours can't be more than 30 hours or the company will have to hire the person as a full time employee. The internship contract is signed between the student, the company and the school, where the school is also responsible to supervise the student to make sure he/she is not being ripped off and also that he/she is not fucking up the company.
I've been studying code for about 8-9 months without a degree or anything and I landed my first job this week as React developer. I've never ever applied unpaid internships eventhough some senior developers I talked advised me to do otherwise. While people gratuated from CS working for free, I get paid at least decent for my country.
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I cant even find an intership... hopefully I'm able to snag one in the summer of 2022 others wise I may not be able to graduate as I need an internship to graduate. I haven't even heard back from any of them, well 3 replied but they took months to respond and it was most likely an automated message as it was Hello, thanks for applying but we are no longer looking for interns at this time blah blah blah.
I highly highly agree with the title of this video!! If you wanna work for free at least a few projects, contact some local companies in your area and offer to make them an app/website etc just so you get some professional work on your portfolio ... then from there you can easily get hired as a junior developer and get paid pretty well and learn.... I know big companies are offering unpaid internships but I personally think it's a bad practice for developers
Only applies to USA & some western countries. Here in Poland it's mandatory for students to take internships throughout Uni and literally every internship has usually 100+ applicants. It's literally impossible to find a paid internship for those of us without connections. Most of the time it's impossible to take ANY internship, even for free so we have to either fake them or pay our boss to hire us. So people from more poor countries should not take this advice at all or they'll won't ever finish their uni.
@Bacon Pancakes this implies that people always want to work in a western country which is usually not true as they usually wanna stay in their home country.
I worked with computer science interns about 10 years ago and they making good money. I wonder what happened? Maybe there are so many CS students that companies thing they can get away without paying them?
This is exactly what I wanted... Just cuz I'm not a super pro at what I do I was felt like perhaps I don't deservea PayCheck yet.. But I did study super hard just focusing on CS only for 5 years straight..and I did work in the CS field part time since middle school, like installing DVR, do Networking stuff, connecting remote office locations.. Writing small POS Apps and setting it up for very small businesses.. Now I'm about to be a fresh Graduate from my CS. Data Analytics. Degree, I'm searchjng for an internship right now I still can't write like super robust apps.. I'm still not like super good at data analysis. But I'm good, at all of these, I felt I won't deserve a paycheck unless I'm SUPER good. Thanks a lot Forrest... But then again...these internship stipend is more than the salary of the prime minister of my country....I need to move to US..fk
And here I am working at a Chick-Fil-A not interested at all in what I do, honestly thanks for the encouragement, maybe i'll go out and try and find an internship to squeeze in
in india, we have to mention paid or volunteer intern in resume and yes, paid interns are counted as some sort of experience over volunteer intern so people should be paid as intern
For those asking "well where do I find them" if you're in college talk to your college's career center about your options and go to your career fair if you have one. Otherwise it becomes a game of googling internship positions and calling up the company and talking to them. Also network with other students. Talk to them about what internships they've been in, you never know where that will take you.
Absolutely. Make connections with seniors too, because once they graduate, they can alert you about internship opportunities at the companies they work for
@Bacon Pancakes That's just not true. You have to go outside of your bubble and network with as many people as you can. If you branch out and network with a variety of different people then you are more like than not to meet with someone who can point you in the right direction. It's up to you to make the most out of that.
In Denmark, students are payed by the state, while attending a study programme, including internship periods during their education; at least for academic studies. For apprenticeship educations where the internship period is much longer, the company in question will have to pay the student.
I think it doesn't make much to take an unpaid internship since you are literally not being compensated for your time and hard work. But at the same time, I think that it doesn't really matter if you are getting paid or not because you are still learning at the same time. What is a great idea, (to make sure students are doing the internships to learn and not because they are making lots of money, this will also make it seem that the company is more serious about teaching the student) there should be a part of the company that focuses solely on internships and actually pays the college tuition if the student interns with them.
For a lot of people it does matter whether or not they're getting paid. People have to pay bills, rent, groceries, etc. If you take an unpaid internship and still have bills to pay then you're gonna need a second job, which can be very stressful. This would still be a problem even if the internship paid for tuition. Unfortunately not everybody has parents who can pay their rent and bills. An internship is a job; while learning should definitely be an important part of the internship, unfortunately some people just can't afford to work for free.
This makes no sense. Interns are students, not professionals. You are just talking about employers that are looking to take advantage desperate people and pay them next to nothing.
Even some of the internships that pay, a lot of people can’t afford to drop their life and go to the other side of the country. If the one you actually land is far away, that is. The whole story with the guy who worked for free and his parents paid for it - lots of STEM students, their families are wealthy and the kids have a trust fund that pays more than a regular engineer job anyway. I remember in one class a guy was checking his online banking and I glanced while walking by, he had over 20k in his personal checking. Dude would be like “I’m broke.” Lol. I had like $20-$200 in my account at any given time and would constantly worry about overdraft fees when buying groceries.
I'm now 14, I'm just a kid and a self taught Java developer who can build a decent web app in 12 hrs. I have nothing to do with anything said in the video. Yet I'm interested in what he says...
Happened to me during my internship that I got paid 30% of the average salary of an analyst but had to do the work of one. Then they said that what I was doing was very important for the company and that I was pretty much another analyst. I then said, well I don’t get paid like one and they said nothing. It’s a sad reality everywhere I guess.
Im not very experienced with CS but i chose unpaid to get the experience. Im not saying im gonna do this most of the time but just to make my resume look interesting and a gateway to paid interns
Don't do it because you'll ruin it for your other computer science students. just don't do it. Corporations NEED to know THEY CANNOT Get away with that level of exploitation your talents. Do NOT tolerate it.
Many of my classmates actually have to PAY for an internship. Yes. Pay to get an internship. Most of us suck so we can't even get a regular internship and an internship is mandatory to complete the degree. So "companies" out there have you pay to do an "internship" at their company. Yeah. It's amazing. Fuck my life
Yes. Yes. And more yes. I don't agree with you on a lot of things with regards to CS, but this is the one thing that is so important. Know your worth. You have value. Don't get scammed. I'd go as far to say that even under 15/hour is a scam for any internship. You should try to get at least 20/hour.
lol people like me who have no background in tech nor any tech degree are pretty much forced to take unpaid internships inorder to break into tech, unless we make pretty good connections. Although, if I do take an unpaid internship, i'd make sure its only part-time and make sure that either the internship isn't too long or can potentially transfer me into a full time paid position.
The problem is you can't get that "potentially transfer me into a full time paid position" in writing, and empty promises are very prevalent in situations like that.
@@fknight True but i'd rather get experience than no experience. It's pretty well known that someone coming from a non-tech background have it significantly harder when trying to break into a new job market lol. So if that means I have to take an unpaid internship for 1-2 months, i'm willing to do what I have to do. I can put the experience on my resume.
@Bacon Pancakes I'm going to a coding bootcamp and it doesn't change my perspective. Like I said, it's a well known fact that it's harder for people without a technical background to break into tech. If you aren't coming from another tech area or have no tech/STEM degree, people will view you as a "wanna be" lol. I've talked to alot of recruiters and even they confirm this. And, no, i'm not "desperate". It's just facing reality.
I disagree with "everyone" getting paid for internships. I believe the 🔑 is if you are bringing value to a company and doing work for the company 100% you should get paid. If you don't know anything and people are just teaching you then no you shouldn't get paid. For example I once had a intern at a previous company where dude only knew Java and had no knowledge of web development. It was a 2 month internship and dude spent most of the time looking at TH-cam videos because he was basically useless. In that situation I don't think he should get paid even though he did... this happens more often than you might think. There's dudes coming straight out of college that can't build anything on their own. Remember each class is like 30 students probably 7 are legit and doing projects on their own the rest are just going to school and doing homework and passing the tests. Those that are like that can't expect to get paid because they are not useful for a company yet.
But in that case the kid could've taken another job if he wasn't getting paid. While he may not have provided value to the company, it sounds like the company wasn't providing any value to him aside from the pay. So if he *wasn't* getting paid, then neither party is providing any value to the other so there's no point in the position at all. I'll have to agree with David. If the company is looking for something specific, it's their job to ensure that intern has the skills, or at least a solid foundation, to provide value.
You don't say "that guy should be payed less because he's incompetent" -> there are tons of incompetent co-workers. You say "how did that guy get hired?" This problem can be solved if the hiring managers actually knew what they're looking for.
@@fknight that's the thing he was getting paid. He was from NYU with a 4.0 GPA and passed the interview questions. I agree with what most guys here said that the biggest problem is who ever was in charge with bringing in interns didn't focus on bringing in people with web development knowledge. 🙄 when clearly we were a web dev team... I just don't think someone who is going to be mostly learning need to get paid. The company is not getting anything back for their investment specially if the student is most likely going to work somewhere else. That's like hey we are going to pay you to train you so another company can get the benefits of the skills we gave you... that makes no business sense. I'm all for getting your money but I'm also a business owner and know that I need a return on my investment. Most people think it's a God given right and you need to get paid for everything but if you not giving anything to do company should you get paid? Also the next question if we go by only giving internships to guys that know what to do... Do we not give the guys with no knowledge and opportunity to learn at internship? It's an infinite loop 🤣
These companies, who offer unpaid internships, couldn't even be bothered to buy lunch or provide transportation. So you're not only working for free. You are paying to work.
I'm a hs senior going into college and I got an unpaid summer offer for a startup at the college I'm gonna go to. The project is pretty interesting and I'd be doing actual ML/IOT type stuff but since they're really early stage they can't pay yet. I don't have any other offers yet so I'm really conflicted about whether I should take it or not. Wouldn't you say that taking it would still be a valuable addition to my resume experience/skill wise that could help with future recruiting? Or is it just a time sink?
I felt like this video is important for international students. On the one hand, it's hard to find an internship when you're an international student when employers will reject you if they know you're an international student. On the other hand, many companies exploit talents and labour from international students because they know these students don't have a lot of choices.
Excuse, would it be possible for you to review some computer science online masters? I’ve seen many people interested like me but we find very little information. Particularly I’m interested in the MSCS from online Stanford.
Why is software development so full of shit jobs? Im not saying other industries don't have shit jobs but JEEEEEEZ. Y'all computer science guys and girls got it ROUGH.
You are 10 times better than joshua... He isn’t necessarily bad but he is very depressing to watch. He doesn’t sound motivated and he isn’t really the motivated youtuber that young programmers should watch.
I am rethinking my decision to take a summer internship in my college town 2 hours from home. I am going to have to buy a car, sublet an apartment, and buy my own food/gas to complete this internship because it means I can’t live at home with my parents. Am I wasting my money, did I make the wrong decision to accept? Should I pull out and intern closer to home?
The problem I am having is that I can’t get an interview. I received an A+ in C programming this past semester, and I have done difficult programs. Any recommendations to actually get the company to notice me?
![BOWKYLION - วิงวอน (ex-change) [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/cLdnZWDaO-w/mqdefault.jpg)
thanks my guy
Thanks to both
You are spot on when it comes to the software dev field.
Knew I would find you here!
@Bacon Pancakes Dammit Easter just went by. Show Jesus some respect!
no homo
Watching this as a junior web developer: yes.
Senior Dev here, 100% agree all internships should be paid. Don't fall for the opportunity trap.
It depends really. I did an unpaid internship in UK and ended up becoming a full time employee after I graduation. This is probably the least likely scenario to happen.
You are senior dev. You already had your experience and the recruiters do not laugh at you. The situation looks completely different from the point of view of a noob who knows that others will agree to an unpaid internship. The race to the bottom is common to several industries where your location is not important. You have entered the programming profession in a different era and did not notice the world is gradually changing.
@@jacekjacenty I second this since the whole point of an internship is to gain experience paid or not. Saying unpaid ones are a trap sounds more like an oxymoron. Three months is not a big deal and most people work a second job anyway to be able to cover for it.
Plus your boxing yourself out of the job placement because no one is going to hire someone without experience. If you do one unpaid and then two paid ones that adds up over a year of experience. I don’t think you realize how difficult the barrier to entry level program jobs has become. Your in a senior role so you wouldn’t be able to relate to how different the job landscape has changed especially now with covid-19.
@@jacekjacenty Yeah but that's the problem. If your logic is that others are doing it and you have no choice you'll get an unpaid internship for sure.
Company: "What a steal! Free labor for my multi-million dollar project!"
Now apply the same logic to a paid position. You get the job because companies do infact pay people for zero experience.
Company: "60,000/yr What a steal! Cheap labor for my multi-million dollar project!"
I'd evaluate the project you'll be working on and get a sense for what value you think can bring to the team. Zero experience does not equal zero value. I guess if you get an internship and do nothing all day maybe zero pay makes sense but if you provide value to a project or the company I'd ask for pay.
Evaluating value with zero experience is difficult maybe you can think what exactly the role is responsible for. Working backend or frontend? Doing more grunt work that no one likes to do? You'll get the hang of everything on the job so don't think zero pay is the only way to get experience.
Yeah I have experience but that does not mean anything if the company is set on not paying anything anyway. I've applied to positions and been undercut by interns before, I don't reduce my pay because of that.
@@jacekjacenty You provide a moot point, though. Because you are in this bad scenario, you are already accepting of it and perpetuate the problem. The OP said that it SHOULD NOT be this way and your reply is basically, "Well, it is" Your "reasons" defending it doesn't explain why there is no pay. It literally makes the industry worse by creating these paradoxical "entry-level" positions with years of work experience. It makes the base line pay rate even lower for the industry as a whole.
As someone who did an unpaid internship himself, it's not recommended that you do these at all. A waste of time in many ways for me personally.
Would you say its better to work a job that is totally unrelated to the field like retail? Or just take the no paying job related to the industry you want to be in to get experience?
@@matthewsnyder1079 I personally believe that if one works in a part-time role like retail, one can learn the necessary communication and customer/client facing techniques. They are just as important as the technical skills. If not, more important in some ways. One can then learn the technical skills outside of the retail job. Unpaid internships are very risky and in my experience, they haven't helped me that much compared to the other above approach. Learning multiple skills is now becoming more and more important. Particularly in a tighter job market as a result of the COVID-19 pandemic.
I'd imagine from a corporate point of view that there isn't much of a reason to take your unpaid interns too seriously since you are not staking any of your money on them to give your company value. Meaning, as an unpaid intern chances are it is a lot less of a valuable experience than if you were paid since you are not treated like an actual employee that is paid and costing the company money.
Even if I have 0 internship experience going in as a new grad?
You look more like Gilfoyle. I applied for an unpaid internship, they just roasted my resume and were rude to me at the interview. -2021. They were looking for an unpaid PHD. LMAO
This is more funny than it's disappointing
Crazy society We live in
Are you sure they weren't just assholes?
When I was in Vietnam there was an unpaid intern at a company I work for that was from like Sweden or some place similar. The problem I see is companies need IT individuals but don't value them or take advantage of them. As long as there a BS demand for entry level to have 3+ years experience and a hype around tech jobs then there will be individuals willing to do unpaid internships. But I agree with Josh, start your own company and work on your own projects if no one is going to pay you.
You: *mentions Joshua Fluke*
Me: *literally just came finished watching his latest video*
😂😂
Same 😂
He is depressing to watch.
Small businesses can be a good place to start to find a job when you're just getting started. They can't afford high priced professionals many times which gives you an opportunity to learn on the job and become valuable. And when it comes to programming, what you do on your own time is also valuable. I got my first jobs because of my hobby projects. All you need is a year or two in a job doing work you can brag about and you're on your way.
What kind of hobby projects did you make?
@@TheProdiigy100 I got my start doing game programming. Games require knowing a lot of different concepts and making things run efficiently. Especially back when computers were 133mhz.
@Bacon Pancakes The world is a different place. We didn't have Google and Stack Overflow giving the answers, free compilers for any language, endless TH-cam tutorials, etc.
You just have to make your mind up that you want to do a thing and put in the effort. I've yet to get a job at a company I knew existed before I started looking for a job. And I make plenty of money. You don't need a job at a well known company to be financially well off.
It’s rough bc despite interviewing, I only got unpaid internship offers. Despite interviewing at big names. I’m hoping I can get one my senior year
At least in Europe I have always seen internships specify whether they are paid or unpaid upfront. I simply don't apply if it's unpaid, plenty paid options.
@@michalpitr4474 Well, plenty i don't know in this context, i was obliged to accept an internship remotely unpaid to validate my semester. Can't quit bc a friend of mine (who helped me getting this job i regret now) is working for this compagny and i don't wanna make him in trouble
@Bacon Pancakes Yeah you are right, but i've got to validate my semester, that's the true problem 😓
@@matthieurioual8807 Right that's rough, my university doesn't require us to have to have placements during semesters, so I had summer internships in mind.
and then there is me being in germany, so not paying for uni AND getting a regular salary every moth through my dual studies programm
How do u experience dual study? I'm considering switching to it in my 2nd year. Is it very tough?
I wish I was you xD
Envy the free goods and wlb but good luck getting anywhere near Bay Area comp
At our University we have a digital black board where different companies can offer jobs and all of them are paid. I once saw one for a start-up that was looking for a developer who would help with a VR project and they offered 2500€ per month for a 20h week (average income in Germany for a 40h week is 2500€)
don't ever get lowballed
THIS!! happened to me but as a research assistant for pharmacology.
Man. These internships pay (much) more than I was making at my full time supervisor job pre-software dev 😅 ouch.
Did an unpaid internship once, only thing I got to learn was how to waste time 11 hours a day, cringe office politics, how upper management only sees you as an expandable resource and that Human Resource department is only filled with most inhumane people on the planet
How sad !
I definitely agree that all interns should definitely be paid, but as an international student (not US) with very shitty laws for international students its extremely hard to get a job let alone be paid. So instead I had to look elsewhere for remote opportunities which was even harder. I accepted an unpaid internship which gave me some experience and I felt it after that the ball was rolling. Now I managed to find another job, again before finishing my undergrad, abroad which pays much better than I would ever dream off in this shitty country.
If I go back in time would I accept the unpaid internships? I think I still would because I don't think I would've been able to get enough experience otherwise. But if I was in the US or a country that actually allowed students to work without choking them, I would probably not.
My first 2 weeks as a software engineer (at 18 years of age) were unpaid and then I got paid but the salary was ridiculously low. When I started 2 months later my university I was part-time with a decent salary. Now at 19 years of age, I switched to a different company and now the salary is quite better. The point is that without the unpaid part I probably would not be able to work right now.
Agreed! I think sometimes it's just a necessary evil especially if you are in a different country or an international student. Always helps to beef up your cv. Thankfully though the unpaid internships I did were not worthless and I actually did gain useful experiences from them to help me move on.
I think the biggest factor in unpaid internships is that you might not be valued at all since you are "free" so you might not end up doing anything interesting. But if you do and get good experience it might definitely be worth it if there's no other choice.
I just entered uni and before that, I did some work in a company without getting paid. It was such a waste of time in many ways: All the time which I could have invested on a job where I'd have gotten paid!
Hell yes!! He's back !!!
7:30 lool
edit: 7:55 now I can't unsee it, help
I agree, only that if it meant getting experience or no internship at all. I'd take an unpaid internship, companies value experience so much, coming off a bachelor's degree with no experience hurts you if you're competing with other who do. There is so many people who are getting into the tech space & this means companies can really take advantage of this, hiring the best talent at the lowest price. I mean look at the gaming industry, those guys get screwed and they can't do anything about it. The top devs in the world like Blizzard are notorious for treating their people like crap...
@Bacon Pancakes I imagine that if these companies catch wind you're trying to get a union going, you'd get fired so fast. You make it sound like people can live solely on principal and not worry about bills & rent. There are some many developers that can code, staging a walkout, just means outsourcing their work to those that will work. This means those "idiots" programmers are out of a job, fired for wanting a union, and person no grata at other major dev studios. Cost of living is too high to risk it if you have kids/family. The game is rigged man, it aint the players fault.
I signed up for a “development program” and as the date got closer and closer, I was sent documents saying it was an internship. Then I realized, I was doing free work. So, I just stopped showing up to the meetings and doing the work. I should probably take it off of my résumé or make it look like an 8-week voluntarily development program.
im thanking you soo much. The timing is important. Semester is about to finish and we see a lot of unpaid internships, and thanks for reminding me to avoid those
In Brazil unpaid internships are illegal, also the weekly working hours can't be more than 30 hours or the company will have to hire the person as a full time employee. The internship contract is signed between the student, the company and the school, where the school is also responsible to supervise the student to make sure he/she is not being ripped off and also that he/she is not fucking up the company.
I swear America is so backwards in a lot of ways lol
Better than getting ghosted after every interview :(
I've been studying code for about 8-9 months without a degree or anything and I landed my first job this week as React developer. I've never ever applied unpaid internships eventhough some senior developers I talked advised me to do otherwise. While people gratuated from CS working for free, I get paid at least decent for my country.
What country?
@@el5880 turkey
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Lol thanks.
I cant even find an intership... hopefully I'm able to snag one in the summer of 2022 others wise I may not be able to graduate as I need an internship to graduate.
I haven't even heard back from any of them, well 3 replied but they took months to respond and it was most likely an automated message as it was Hello, thanks for applying but we are no longer looking for interns at this time blah blah blah.
I highly highly agree with the title of this video!! If you wanna work for free at least a few projects, contact some local companies in your area and offer to make them an app/website etc just so you get some professional work on your portfolio ...
then from there you can easily get hired as a junior developer and get paid pretty well and learn.... I know big companies are offering unpaid internships but I personally think it's a bad practice for developers
Only applies to USA & some western countries. Here in Poland it's mandatory for students to take internships throughout Uni and literally every internship has usually 100+ applicants. It's literally impossible to find a paid internship for those of us without connections. Most of the time it's impossible to take ANY internship, even for free so we have to either fake them or pay our boss to hire us. So people from more poor countries should not take this advice at all or they'll won't ever finish their uni.
@Bacon Pancakes this implies that people always want to work in a western country which is usually not true as they usually wanna stay in their home country.
I worked with computer science interns about 10 years ago and they making good money. I wonder what happened? Maybe there are so many CS students that companies thing they can get away without paying them?
You: Do I look like Jesus or Gilfoyle
me: YES
XDXDXDDD
you derserve my suscription in all my google accounts lmaoo😭😭.. . you're so helpful!
This is exactly what I wanted...
Just cuz I'm not a super pro at what I do I was felt like perhaps I don't deservea PayCheck yet..
But I did study super hard just focusing on CS only for 5 years straight..and I did work in the CS field part time since middle school, like installing DVR, do Networking stuff, connecting remote office locations.. Writing small POS Apps and setting it up for very small businesses..
Now I'm about to be a fresh Graduate from my CS. Data Analytics. Degree,
I'm searchjng for an internship right now
I still can't write like super robust apps.. I'm still not like super good at data analysis. But I'm good, at all of these, I felt I won't deserve a paycheck unless I'm SUPER good. Thanks a lot Forrest...
But then again...these internship stipend is more than the salary of the prime minister of my country....I need to move to US..fk
Now you need an internship to graduate for certain degrees. People that can't find anything better just go for unpaid internships sadly
I agree if it comes down to it
Yeah my degree is like that too! I doubt everyone can find a paying internship within the required time
It should be goddamn illegal man. If you don’t have enough to pay interns you don’t deserve interns at all.
Yes, I’d go with Gilfoyle for sure. Just need the high res glasses and baaammm! 💥
I just recently landed my first CS internship doing IT for a bank for the summer, so i knew i had to come rewatch this vid
I'm halfway through my test task for a paid internship, and oh my, I should have taken some algoexpert before applying.
And here I am working at a Chick-Fil-A not interested at all in what I do, honestly thanks for the encouragement, maybe i'll go out and try and find an internship to squeeze in
Watching till the very end... Jesus with no glasses... Gilfoyle with glasses
in india, we have to mention paid or volunteer intern in resume and yes, paid interns are counted as some sort of experience over volunteer intern
so people should be paid as intern
For those asking "well where do I find them" if you're in college talk to your college's career center about your options and go to your career fair if you have one. Otherwise it becomes a game of googling internship positions and calling up the company and talking to them. Also network with other students. Talk to them about what internships they've been in, you never know where that will take you.
Absolutely. Make connections with seniors too, because once they graduate, they can alert you about internship opportunities at the companies they work for
@Bacon Pancakes Just sounds like you need higher quality connections haha. Some of them end up that way but not all
@Bacon Pancakes That's just not true. You have to go outside of your bubble and network with as many people as you can. If you branch out and network with a variety of different people then you are more like than not to meet with someone who can point you in the right direction. It's up to you to make the most out of that.
In Denmark, students are payed by the state, while attending a study programme, including internship periods during their education; at least for academic studies. For apprenticeship educations where the internship period is much longer, the company in question will have to pay the student.
I'm working at a government contracting company this summer too and it's 23 an hour
me too but low salary :(
Thank you, I have been thinking about this a lot lately. Appreciate the video!
It's a shame internships are so hard to get rn...
I think it doesn't make much to take an unpaid internship since you are literally not being compensated for your time and hard work. But at the same time, I think that it doesn't really matter if you are getting paid or not because you are still learning at the same time.
What is a great idea, (to make sure students are doing the internships to learn and not because they are making lots of money, this will also make it seem that the company is more serious about teaching the student) there should be a part of the company that focuses solely on internships and actually pays the college tuition if the student interns with them.
For a lot of people it does matter whether or not they're getting paid. People have to pay bills, rent, groceries, etc. If you take an unpaid internship and still have bills to pay then you're gonna need a second job, which can be very stressful. This would still be a problem even if the internship paid for tuition. Unfortunately not everybody has parents who can pay their rent and bills. An internship is a job; while learning should definitely be an important part of the internship, unfortunately some people just can't afford to work for free.
Thank you for the encouragement!
When are we getting the Fluke - Knight avengers crossover?
Unfortunately one needs professional experience for most paid internships lol so it’s not easy to not get it unpaid
This makes no sense. Interns are students, not professionals. You are just talking about employers that are looking to take advantage desperate people and pay them next to nothing.
Here in India everyone suggests to get unpaid internships to add experience in one's resume!
Trueeee
Same bro
I did my AP in Denmark, and we weren't allowed to take payment for the internships we did.
just started my college path and this is a great heads up
One of the mast valuable internships I had was an unpaid one. In those three months i learnt way more than in my summer internship (which was paid).
@Bacon Pancakes if that was so I guess he'd mention the name of the company
Even some of the internships that pay, a lot of people can’t afford to drop their life and go to the other side of the country. If the one you actually land is far away, that is.
The whole story with the guy who worked for free and his parents paid for it - lots of STEM students, their families are wealthy and the kids have a trust fund that pays more than a regular engineer job anyway.
I remember in one class a guy was checking his online banking and I glanced while walking by, he had over 20k in his personal checking. Dude would be like “I’m broke.” Lol.
I had like $20-$200 in my account at any given time and would constantly worry about overdraft fees when buying groceries.
Especially when there are so many internships that have awesome pay - mine paid 32 an hour which is pretty decent for a non-FAANG company
Nice, I’m only getting $12 but it’s small/ local business
Wtf... I get 9$..
I'm now 14, I'm just a kid and a self taught Java developer who can build a decent web app in 12 hrs.
I have nothing to do with anything said in the video.
Yet I'm interested in what he says...
Start freelancing.
Build yourself some apps/demos that you can show on interviews, put them on GitHub and you shouldn't have to worry about unpaid internships.
You should start building Ur CV right now, start pushing apps to Ur GitHub etc.
Genius way to reach 8 mins. Great content as always. 🙌
Happened to me during my internship that I got paid 30% of the average salary of an analyst but had to do the work of one.
Then they said that what I was doing was very important for the company and that I was pretty much another analyst. I then said, well I don’t get paid like one and they said nothing.
It’s a sad reality everywhere I guess.
Im not very experienced with CS but i chose unpaid to get the experience. Im not saying im gonna do this most of the time but just to make my resume look interesting and a gateway to paid interns
I live in norfolk and, I cant find any yet? Wr systems had some but were filling by old navy programmers.
If the job doesn't say volunteer, ask for pay.
Unpaid internship - proof that potential employer does not give a shit about emploees future
18.50 an hour as an intern, wow I make like 17 an hour at my full time job.
Don't do it because you'll ruin it for your other computer science students. just don't do it. Corporations NEED to know THEY CANNOT Get away with that level of exploitation your talents. Do NOT tolerate it.
I’m going to be interning at NASA in the spring, and the pay checks out.
The median income for US Software Engineer is $125,000. If you're not making at least half that you're selling yourself way too short.
I get paid $17 an hour at my internship and I just answer calls
Where is this dream job
Then where should I get paid internships
Many of my classmates actually have to PAY for an internship. Yes. Pay to get an internship. Most of us suck so we can't even get a regular internship and an internship is mandatory to complete the degree. So "companies" out there have you pay to do an "internship" at their company. Yeah. It's amazing. Fuck my life
Mh that's weird. Here in italy i never heard a paying internship. I don't even know if that's legal lol
Yes. Yes. And more yes. I don't agree with you on a lot of things with regards to CS, but this is the one thing that is so important. Know your worth. You have value. Don't get scammed. I'd go as far to say that even under 15/hour is a scam for any internship. You should try to get at least 20/hour.
lol people like me who have no background in tech nor any tech degree are pretty much forced to take unpaid internships inorder to break into tech, unless we make pretty good connections. Although, if I do take an unpaid internship, i'd make sure its only part-time and make sure that either the internship isn't too long or can potentially transfer me into a full time paid position.
The problem is you can't get that "potentially transfer me into a full time paid position" in writing, and empty promises are very prevalent in situations like that.
@@fknight True but i'd rather get experience than no experience. It's pretty well known that someone coming from a non-tech background have it significantly harder when trying to break into a new job market lol. So if that means I have to take an unpaid internship for 1-2 months, i'm willing to do what I have to do. I can put the experience on my resume.
@Bacon Pancakes I'm going to a coding bootcamp and it doesn't change my perspective. Like I said, it's a well known fact that it's harder for people without a technical background to break into tech. If you aren't coming from another tech area or have no tech/STEM degree, people will view you as a "wanna be" lol. I've talked to alot of recruiters and even they confirm this. And, no, i'm not "desperate". It's just facing reality.
I disagree with "everyone" getting paid for internships. I believe the 🔑 is if you are bringing value to a company and doing work for the company 100% you should get paid. If you don't know anything and people are just teaching you then no you shouldn't get paid.
For example I once had a intern at a previous company where dude only knew Java and had no knowledge of web development. It was a 2 month internship and dude spent most of the time looking at TH-cam videos because he was basically useless. In that situation I don't think he should get paid even though he did... this happens more often than you might think. There's dudes coming straight out of college that can't build anything on their own. Remember each class is like 30 students probably 7 are legit and doing projects on their own the rest are just going to school and doing homework and passing the tests. Those that are like that can't expect to get paid because they are not useful for a company yet.
But in that case the kid could've taken another job if he wasn't getting paid. While he may not have provided value to the company, it sounds like the company wasn't providing any value to him aside from the pay. So if he *wasn't* getting paid, then neither party is providing any value to the other so there's no point in the position at all.
I'll have to agree with David. If the company is looking for something specific, it's their job to ensure that intern has the skills, or at least a solid foundation, to provide value.
You don't say "that guy should be payed less because he's incompetent" -> there are tons of incompetent co-workers.
You say "how did that guy get hired?"
This problem can be solved if the hiring managers actually knew what they're looking for.
@@fknight that's the thing he was getting paid. He was from NYU with a 4.0 GPA and passed the interview questions. I agree with what most guys here said that the biggest problem is who ever was in charge with bringing in interns didn't focus on bringing in people with web development knowledge. 🙄 when clearly we were a web dev team...
I just don't think someone who is going to be mostly learning need to get paid. The company is not getting anything back for their investment specially if the student is most likely going to work somewhere else.
That's like hey we are going to pay you to train you so another company can get the benefits of the skills we gave you... that makes no business sense. I'm all for getting your money but I'm also a business owner and know that I need a return on my investment. Most people think it's a God given right and you need to get paid for everything but if you not giving anything to do company should you get paid?
Also the next question if we go by only giving internships to guys that know what to do... Do we not give the guys with no knowledge and opportunity to learn at internship?
It's an infinite loop 🤣
I wish I have seen this video before I accepted the unpaid internship
I got paid a ridiculous 27 per hour as an intern
These companies, who offer unpaid internships, couldn't even be bothered to buy lunch or provide transportation. So you're not only working for free. You are paying to work.
I'm a hs senior going into college and I got an unpaid summer offer for a startup at the college I'm gonna go to. The project is pretty interesting and I'd be doing actual ML/IOT type stuff but since they're really early stage they can't pay yet. I don't have any other offers yet so I'm really conflicted about whether I should take it or not. Wouldn't you say that taking it would still be a valuable addition to my resume experience/skill wise that could help with future recruiting? Or is it just a time sink?
Time to leave. Your time is valuable and experience doesn’t pay the bills.
I felt like this video is important for international students. On the one hand, it's hard to find an internship when you're an international student when employers will reject you if they know you're an international student. On the other hand, many companies exploit talents and labour from international students because they know these students don't have a lot of choices.
This is true
@Bacon Pancakes people do care, international students have limited options, this is very obvious..
Here in india we pay them for offering internship lol
Which company
@@Baboi62182 a lot of companies
in Iran too, so sad...
Yup, you can thank capitalism
Excuse, would it be possible for you to review some computer science online masters? I’ve seen many people interested like me but we find very little information.
Particularly I’m interested in the MSCS from online Stanford.
Hey dude, can you do a video on how you balance your work and personal life/ whatever you want to do apart from work? I'd love to see it.
I have an interview tomorrow unpaid internship and I’m graduate 😢
I was just about to be scammed thanks brother 😃
Man! this is for everyone!
Paid interships in the us are $2,000? Thats more than a senior dev makes in my country lol
Need a livestream with Joshua Fluke.
Why is software development so full of shit jobs? Im not saying other industries don't have shit jobs but JEEEEEEZ. Y'all computer science guys and girls got it ROUGH.
Pain 😢
@@qwerasdfhjkio pain peko, also thanks capitalism
How can a fresher get an internship or a job?
Watching this video while working at a non paid internship, lmao🤓😭😭🤣🤣💻
You are 10 times better than joshua... He isn’t necessarily bad but he is very depressing to watch. He doesn’t sound motivated and he isn’t really the motivated youtuber that young programmers should watch.
I am rethinking my decision to take a summer internship in my college town 2 hours from home. I am going to have to buy a car, sublet an apartment, and buy my own food/gas to complete this internship because it means I can’t live at home with my parents. Am I wasting my money, did I make the wrong decision to accept? Should I pull out and intern closer to home?
Great video, great content, but above of all great ending!!! hahahaha
Y'all our ForrestKnight is wearing the same shirt as yesterday 😏 did he record that yesterday 🤔 btw I love 6:40
*Laughs in Greek*. What do you mean afford books? They're free and so is university.
Goes for engineers as well
The problem I am having is that I can’t get an interview. I received an A+ in C programming this past semester, and I have done difficult programs. Any recommendations to actually get the company to notice me?
maybe this applies only to U.S or Canada but not whole Europe or Eastern europe.
I disagree. 2 months as an intern read as a year and a half full time job on my resume and actually got me a 90k a year job
Gilfoyle, totally