The other choice is to limit table number. There's some ball python breeders that buy 6+ tables and that probably works for them economically but that's potentially 5 new breeder slots that they've absorbed. Maybe if the big shows forced vendors to choose to bring their very best instead of doing the buffet model, it would leave room both physically and in terms of market share for smaller breeders.
The hard part is that the only way alot of these people can make it work is by having lots of tables. The staffing/travel/fixed costs are very similar for 1 table or 10.
Pros and cons to all of this. At the end of the say, marketing/branding and quality of animal/project will ultimately win. Im actually looking forward to doing less shows this year(I dont do many in a year), rather than more due to costs and how turn out. The one thing ball pythons have as a safeguard to the ever on-going crash are the ever evolving morphs/mutations and combos. There are so many morphs, but yet so many breeders, shows and individual animals, that the competition will always drive the value down. Again, the morphs save this by introducing new mutatioms to value at higher levels, also population being constantly aging, new waves of enthusiasts can find their interest in this world of ball pythons and keep it going.
Always love your videos. I believe you are at the top of the influencer's list for informative content. I think I need to start a file on my computer to download all your videos onto because I find myself going back time and time again to watch them for indepth information. Thank you for all you do to explain these topics in layman's terms so that the whole hobby can extract the information that is relevant to them. I've gained so much knowledge from your videos. Thank you from Calgary, Canada.
The answer with shows is a tough one, but the more basic questions I see are the general question you start with. Are there too many ball python breeders? Probably. So what happens to that part of the market? They have been dropping out already. That will clear up some of the clutter with the big shows naturally. But the question then for me is: Is this the right time to be getting into the game? I believe the answer is yes, for a few reasons. First of all, as above, and as the Covid breeder dropout showed, others will be leaving a hole in the market that I can fill. An equilibrium will be found; I just have to decide where my place is there and be willing to fit in my little corner until the market allows me a larger part of the pie. It will come. If you don’t have patience, this isn’t the hobby for you anyway!
It only makes sense, and I love the way you explained it, Steven, that if new breeders are able to vend the big shows and make sales, they’re probably going to use some of that money to make purchases at that show. I also like what Jessica said, that the number of tables per breeder could be lowered. Something to think about for sure! Great video!
Hey! This is an interesting and tricky topic for sure. Only discussion point that I was thinking was on your last item for the All Ball Python show. This one is tough for an additional reason, often shows get pummeled by visitors (or potential show-goers) with comments like "Will there be more than Ball Pythons at this show?". This could definitely be tackled from the show marketing stand point if it was a BP only show, but could definitely get tricky from a customer perspective. Often new pet level customers are there for other types of reptiles and stop and chat and gain an interest in BPs. So with that, not quite as cut and dry for those new breeders translating to sales, may not get those sales in that style show. All that being said, all of this is a good discussion topic. Good thoughts overall though on the potential of table rotations etc, could be a tough switch for those big shows, but I think it is a valuable idea. P.S. Sorry we missed you guys at the Denver show, wanted to introduce ourselves, but didn't get a chance to escape from behind the table much. Hope you guys had a fantastic time and hope to see you back out here!
Love the channel only been in the hobby a short while and I watched manny of your videos even some of the pod cast by u guys . I truly have taken much of your advice in the direction that I’m going thank you and continue making great videos
Great video, you know about 10 years ago Sean Bradley made a joke about an all ball show and while it is a neat concept I don’t necessarily think it would be beneficial for the promoter as the customers/ attendees may get bored quickly which is something I’ve seen at national level shows all the way down to small local shows. It is definitely an interesting dynamic and I think you through out some great ideas for solutions. It will be interesting to see how we as a hobby move forward
Lots of ball pythons for sure. But, after analyzing the market, the majority of the market is for pet owner level animals, like the blue eyed lucisitics. Reptiles only represent 2-3% of the market. There is definitely room for growth. The issue people from outside the hobby, with other businesses see, is that differentiation is low, with most breeders producing the same-looking animals. Breeders currently support this market, which is unlike most consumer markets. So, the BP market needs to market to people outside of breeders to survive. We have sold 100% of our animals without shows or online, by identifying a niche where ball python breeders do not exist. Be original.
The problem with ball pythons is they arent bought for pets, rather investments. B to B sales are fine but you need demand in the pet market. That simply isnt enough to support the numbers breeding. Its out of balance. Adding , subtracting , whatever at shows isnt going to change that imo. Also people have worked for decades upon decades to get there. Its not right to take it away iin an effort to be fair or to try and manipulate a market. Promoters are limiting bps because they are listening to the customers. They want other species represented.
I feel that an all Ball Python Show would be great. The patrons coming to a marketed all Ball Python would be there to buy/see Ball Pythons. Not Lizzards and Spiders
I think these are some great ideas. As awesome as a ball python specific show would be, it would be difficult to promote a python expo simply because the name Python has weight to it. Maybe it would be easier to piggyback on a snake super show or something. But yes more shows and more available to new breeders. Are least 10 shows across the nation to give a chance for little guys to travel without going 4-5 states away from home.
As I'm gearing up to get back into breading again after close to 20 years, I came to the conclusion that at least in my corner of the country there are too many Ball Python specific breeders who bring nothing but balls. This is a problem but in a way it isn't! I'll Explain, many of the breeders are missing a sweet spot with the pet range they have plenty of left over hets they are willing to let go for $50 -$75 but quickly jump to $350 for the low end of any multi gene animals. This poses a problem for those first-time buyers "Het clown" doesn't mean a thing to a little kid neither does (Pastel, Leopard, Yellowbelly) but they know it's pretty! My decision when getting back into the "Game" I planned to be primarily Australian focused breeder to bring in some variety to any show I vend but this would still be leaving that aforementioned gap of $100-$300 pet Balls an easy target. The solution that seems apparent to me would Not only focus on the carpets and children's but it's not hard to have a couple ball trios bred specifically to aim for that gap. A second gap I have noticed at the shows I have attended over past few years is a surprising lack of any colubrid. So Same story there 2-3 trios of corn's a couple pairs of hognose and my table is full of all color's shapes and sizes. It's not overextending yourself if you have help and love all the animals you work with. I mean most of us already take care of hundreds if not thousands of rodents what's one or two small side projects to bring more attention to your table?
I like your presentation style and analytical thought process when looking at all of this. But it really boils down to one thing. We need to stop breeding a bunch of paint jobs of the same pet rock. There are so many amazing species out there that do not have all of this competition to sell. Investing in those is better for the breeder so they aren’t sitting on babies forever, it’s better for the diversity of the hobby, and it’s better for the future of the world’s reptile species because so many of them become endangered and go extinct and breeding in captivity can be the thing that saves them. And all of that is being hindered by everyone wanting to breed the same animal. I try to keep a wide range of species and morphs within those species, so that even if one market is slow, it doesn’t hurt me overall. And because I have a variety, I have an easier time getting tables at expos because they are trying to bring in more variety to the shows.
Having bred BPs small scale, breeding snakes sb limited. These animals live a very long time and don’t have a quick dispatch turnover rate like say, a pet rat has. Given this I think we all have bred irresponsibly at some point.
Good video. I liked and subscribed because I like your thoughtfulness. But, respectfully, this is a lot of fancy talking around the real problem...there are too many people producing and too many ball pythons being produced. This all sounds like artifical ways to support a nonviable sector of the hobby/industry. Also, the idea that show promoters are going to do something to support BP breeders is a little far fetched. Show promoters sell tables and tickets. More tables means more tickets. It's in their best interest to sell tables to whatever degree they can without alienating vendors. The whole reptile industry is in a slump. People will either ride it out and survive or they'll go away. It's cyclical.
Thank you! I have a different opinion on the overall market but no worries at all that you think something else! The reptile hobby has been around for decades and the ball python portion has definitely been the driving force in it since the early 2000’s. I think it has definitely proven itself to be viable but that doesn’t mean it can stay the same forever and those that are able adapt and change will continue to grow while those who are stuck in how it used be will continue to fade away. Also I completely agree on the show promoter stance, they want to sell tables and tickets and it doesn’t make as much sense from their POV to give up tables to newer breeders if they have more established breeders willing to pay for them.
halfway through the video and not one mention of the snakes welfare and the over production of ball pythons . I live in the UK and there is a lot of market saturation its a total buyers market . Maybe in US there are more people to buy snakes .
There are and it’s a dramatic difference the United States has a population 333.3 million people versus roughly 67 million in the UK there’s so much more demand for pet reptiles in the United States
@matthewpraayjr.9797 Cheers , I did suspect it .I want to start breeding only 1 or 2 clutches but it worries me that I might not find homes for them even though I have got some beautiful snakes to breed with .
This is a weird takeaway from the video and makes me question if you actually watched it. If anything it is super pro new breeders and maybe a bit critical of existing breeders though I do agree that it is a bit negative overall as it highlights a challenge that new breeders face getting into the hobby in 2024.
@LeviathanSnakes unless there is some positivity and encouragement in the last 5 minutes of your video for people looking to get into breeding then no, it's not a weird takeaway. I call it how I see and I watched a little over half and couldn't take it anymore and turned it off. If your intention was to encourage new breeders toget into the hobby you sure did a terrible job. 🤷🏼♂️ idk if you're lying to me or to yourself but it REAAAALLY felt like the hate is strong within you for all the new breeders coming into 'your' space. 😒
@@tentoesgaming9161 I mean you can check out all the other comments and see that you are literally the only one who thinks this video is hating on new breeders. In fact there is another comment that is critical of the approach I suggest because the more established breeders had to work for years to get where they are and they believe it isn’t fair that I suggest we should do things to help out newer breeders. You do you, but you can’t expect anyone to take your opinion seriously if you admit you don’t know what you are talking about since you didn’t watch the video.
I feel like this guy is doing 2 things here. 1. Hating on new breeders 2. Trying to discourage other people from getting into breeding ball pythons 😒 All negative and discouraging talk.
The other choice is to limit table number. There's some ball python breeders that buy 6+ tables and that probably works for them economically but that's potentially 5 new breeder slots that they've absorbed. Maybe if the big shows forced vendors to choose to bring their very best instead of doing the buffet model, it would leave room both physically and in terms of market share for smaller breeders.
This is a great idea
COMPLETELY agree!!
The hard part is that the only way alot of these people can make it work is by having lots of tables. The staffing/travel/fixed costs are very similar for 1 table or 10.
Protect this man at all cost lol good stuff👍
Pros and cons to all of this. At the end of the say, marketing/branding and quality of animal/project will ultimately win. Im actually looking forward to doing less shows this year(I dont do many in a year), rather than more due to costs and how turn out. The one thing ball pythons have as a safeguard to the ever on-going crash are the ever evolving morphs/mutations and combos. There are so many morphs, but yet so many breeders, shows and individual animals, that the competition will always drive the value down. Again, the morphs save this by introducing new mutatioms to value at higher levels, also population being constantly aging, new waves of enthusiasts can find their interest in this world of ball pythons and keep it going.
Just found your channel about a week ago. Love the videos and I've learned a lot already. Thanks for what you do!
Always love your videos. I believe you are at the top of the influencer's list for informative content. I think I need to start a file on my computer to download all your videos onto because I find myself going back time and time again to watch them for indepth information. Thank you for all you do to explain these topics in layman's terms so that the whole hobby can extract the information that is relevant to them. I've gained so much knowledge from your videos. Thank you from Calgary, Canada.
Wow! Such amazing and useful information! Thanks so much and keep it up!
Good stuff Steven! Love watching your stuff!
Another great watch. Thank you guys
The answer with shows is a tough one, but the more basic questions I see are the general question you start with. Are there too many ball python breeders? Probably. So what happens to that part of the market? They have been dropping out already. That will clear up some of the clutter with the big shows naturally. But the question then for me is: Is this the right time to be getting into the game? I believe the answer is yes, for a few reasons. First of all, as above, and as the Covid breeder dropout showed, others will be leaving a hole in the market that I can fill. An equilibrium will be found; I just have to decide where my place is there and be willing to fit in my little corner until the market allows me a larger part of the pie. It will come. If you don’t have patience, this isn’t the hobby for you anyway!
Another great video!! You do a great job explaining things a way people understand, thanks so much !!!!
Great video, lots of good information!
It only makes sense, and I love the way you explained it, Steven, that if new breeders are able to vend the big shows and make sales, they’re probably going to use some of that money to make purchases at that show. I also like what Jessica said, that the number of tables per breeder could be lowered. Something to think about for sure! Great video!
As always, great content!
Hey! This is an interesting and tricky topic for sure. Only discussion point that I was thinking was on your last item for the All Ball Python show. This one is tough for an additional reason, often shows get pummeled by visitors (or potential show-goers) with comments like "Will there be more than Ball Pythons at this show?". This could definitely be tackled from the show marketing stand point if it was a BP only show, but could definitely get tricky from a customer perspective. Often new pet level customers are there for other types of reptiles and stop and chat and gain an interest in BPs. So with that, not quite as cut and dry for those new breeders translating to sales, may not get those sales in that style show. All that being said, all of this is a good discussion topic.
Good thoughts overall though on the potential of table rotations etc, could be a tough switch for those big shows, but I think it is a valuable idea.
P.S. Sorry we missed you guys at the Denver show, wanted to introduce ourselves, but didn't get a chance to escape from behind the table much. Hope you guys had a fantastic time and hope to see you back out here!
You came up with some great ideas, hopefully the powers that be are listening
Great video!
Love the channel only been in the hobby a short while and I watched manny of your videos even some of the pod cast by u guys . I truly have taken much of your advice in the direction that I’m going thank you and continue making great videos
Great video, you know about 10 years ago Sean Bradley made a joke about an all ball show and while it is a neat concept I don’t necessarily think it would be beneficial for the promoter as the customers/ attendees may get bored quickly which is something I’ve seen at national level shows all the way down to small local shows. It is definitely an interesting dynamic and I think you through out some great ideas for solutions. It will be interesting to see how we as a hobby move forward
I just love your videos they are so informative and helpful
😊 Very great ideas throughout this entire video thank you😊
Steven, Great ideas!
Great video 🤙
Lots of ball pythons for sure. But, after analyzing the market, the majority of the market is for pet owner level animals, like the blue eyed lucisitics. Reptiles only represent 2-3% of the market. There is definitely room for growth. The issue people from outside the hobby, with other businesses see, is that differentiation is low, with most breeders producing the same-looking animals. Breeders currently support this market, which is unlike most consumer markets. So, the BP market needs to market to people outside of breeders to survive. We have sold 100% of our animals without shows or online, by identifying a niche where ball python breeders do not exist. Be original.
Someone seeing the truth & not afraid to share it.
I like to walk the park let kids hold and pet a snake I have sold a lot of snakes like this
Great ideas, each and every one 💯
Epic vid as always! Well said
The problem with ball pythons is they arent bought for pets, rather investments. B to B sales are fine but you need demand in the pet market. That simply isnt enough to support the numbers breeding. Its out of balance.
Adding , subtracting , whatever at shows isnt going to change that imo.
Also people have worked for decades upon decades to get there. Its not right to take it away iin an effort to be fair or to try and manipulate a market.
Promoters are limiting bps because they are listening to the customers. They want other species represented.
Great job friend 🤘🏻
I meet Troy from balls and strikes in dallas. Pretty cool dude.
I feel that an all Ball Python Show would be great. The patrons coming to a marketed all Ball Python would be there to buy/see Ball Pythons. Not Lizzards and Spiders
I think these are some great ideas. As awesome as a ball python specific show would be, it would be difficult to promote a python expo simply because the name Python has weight to it.
Maybe it would be easier to piggyback on a snake super show or something. But yes more shows and more available to new breeders. Are least 10 shows across the nation to give a chance for little guys to travel without going 4-5 states away from home.
100% I only buy from investment quality breeders only I don't have to worry about not selling my animals
As I'm gearing up to get back into breading again after close to 20 years, I came to the conclusion that at least in my corner of the country there are too many Ball Python specific breeders who bring nothing but balls. This is a problem but in a way it isn't! I'll Explain, many of the breeders are missing a sweet spot with the pet range they have plenty of left over hets they are willing to let go for $50 -$75 but quickly jump to $350 for the low end of any multi gene animals. This poses a problem for those first-time buyers "Het clown" doesn't mean a thing to a little kid neither does (Pastel, Leopard, Yellowbelly) but they know it's pretty! My decision when getting back into the "Game" I planned to be primarily Australian focused breeder to bring in some variety to any show I vend but this would still be leaving that aforementioned gap of $100-$300 pet Balls an easy target. The solution that seems apparent to me would Not only focus on the carpets and children's but it's not hard to have a couple ball trios bred specifically to aim for that gap. A second gap I have noticed at the shows I have attended over past few years is a surprising lack of any colubrid. So Same story there 2-3 trios of corn's a couple pairs of hognose and my table is full of all color's shapes and sizes. It's not overextending yourself if you have help and love all the animals you work with. I mean most of us already take care of hundreds if not thousands of rodents what's one or two small side projects to bring more attention to your table?
*Pyramid Scheme?* 🧐🤔 This topic is extremely important, as a potentially saturated BP market is the elephant in the Herp room.
I like your presentation style and analytical thought process when looking at all of this. But it really boils down to one thing. We need to stop breeding a bunch of paint jobs of the same pet rock. There are so many amazing species out there that do not have all of this competition to sell. Investing in those is better for the breeder so they aren’t sitting on babies forever, it’s better for the diversity of the hobby, and it’s better for the future of the world’s reptile species because so many of them become endangered and go extinct and breeding in captivity can be the thing that saves them. And all of that is being hindered by everyone wanting to breed the same animal. I try to keep a wide range of species and morphs within those species, so that even if one market is slow, it doesn’t hurt me overall. And because I have a variety, I have an easier time getting tables at expos because they are trying to bring in more variety to the shows.
Having bred BPs small scale, breeding snakes sb limited. These animals live a very long time and don’t have a quick dispatch turnover rate like say, a pet rat has. Given this I think we all have bred irresponsibly at some point.
Good video. I liked and subscribed because I like your thoughtfulness. But, respectfully, this is a lot of fancy talking around the real problem...there are too many people producing and too many ball pythons being produced. This all sounds like artifical ways to support a nonviable sector of the hobby/industry. Also, the idea that show promoters are going to do something to support BP breeders is a little far fetched. Show promoters sell tables and tickets. More tables means more tickets. It's in their best interest to sell tables to whatever degree they can without alienating vendors. The whole reptile industry is in a slump. People will either ride it out and survive or they'll go away. It's cyclical.
Thank you! I have a different opinion on the overall market but no worries at all that you think something else! The reptile hobby has been around for decades and the ball python portion has definitely been the driving force in it since the early 2000’s. I think it has definitely proven itself to be viable but that doesn’t mean it can stay the same forever and those that are able adapt and change will continue to grow while those who are stuck in how it used be will continue to fade away.
Also I completely agree on the show promoter stance, they want to sell tables and tickets and it doesn’t make as much sense from their POV to give up tables to newer breeders if they have more established breeders willing to pay for them.
👍🫵😎👊
halfway through the video and not one mention of the snakes welfare and the over production of ball pythons . I live in the UK and there is a lot of market saturation its a total buyers market . Maybe in US there are more people to buy snakes .
There are and it’s a dramatic difference the United States has a population 333.3 million people versus roughly 67 million in the UK there’s so much more demand for pet reptiles in the United States
@matthewpraayjr.9797 Cheers , I did suspect it .I want to start breeding only 1 or 2 clutches but it worries me that I might not find homes for them even though I have got some beautiful snakes to breed with .
Basically just saying dont become a breeder so i can continue to make money doing it. 🙄
This is a weird takeaway from the video and makes me question if you actually watched it.
If anything it is super pro new breeders and maybe a bit critical of existing breeders though I do agree that it is a bit negative overall as it highlights a challenge that new breeders face getting into the hobby in 2024.
@LeviathanSnakes unless there is some positivity and encouragement in the last 5 minutes of your video for people looking to get into breeding then no, it's not a weird takeaway. I call it how I see and I watched a little over half and couldn't take it anymore and turned it off. If your intention was to encourage new breeders toget into the hobby you sure did a terrible job. 🤷🏼♂️ idk if you're lying to me or to yourself but it REAAAALLY felt like the hate is strong within you for all the new breeders coming into 'your' space. 😒
@@tentoesgaming9161 I mean you can check out all the other comments and see that you are literally the only one who thinks this video is hating on new breeders. In fact there is another comment that is critical of the approach I suggest because the more established breeders had to work for years to get where they are and they believe it isn’t fair that I suggest we should do things to help out newer breeders.
You do you, but you can’t expect anyone to take your opinion seriously if you admit you don’t know what you are talking about since you didn’t watch the video.
I feel like this guy is doing 2 things here.
1. Hating on new breeders
2. Trying to discourage other people from getting into breeding ball pythons 😒
All negative and discouraging talk.
Again, weird take. I recommend watching the video as it is the exact opposite of your comment
You said it, not me
I'm in the business not to sell I love all my girls but If have to sell I will sell. Don't want to
Great video!